Database Users

wing for sale**cheap

kinda sick of my wing and its kinda beat up i mean nothing wrong with it except for lots of scratches on the case and stuff :-/
screens perfect and phone works fine
willing to let it go for $150
i think thats real cheap maybe someone needs a extra wing to mess around with or w.e :-/
just let me know
[email protected]
email me
alex

donate it to the "chefs" for testing roms and cooking for the community....
just kidding..
fortuni said:
kinda sick of my wing and its kinda beat up i mean nothing wrong with it except for lots of scratches on the case and stuff :-/
screens perfect and phone works fine
willing to let it go for $150
i think thats real cheap maybe someone needs a extra wing to mess around with or w.e :-/
just let me know
[email protected]
email me
alex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

can you post a couple of pictures of how scratched up it is? I may be interested in it.

obviously i have ADD lol
as you can see from the pics >.<
but other than cosmetically the phone is fine

fortuni said:
obviously i have ADD lol
as you can see from the pics >.<
but other than cosmetically the phone is fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is pretty dinged up. One can always buy a housing though. But the ones I have seen are pretty expensive.
Maybe somebody could get this and a housing and make a How To change housing?

yea she aint pretty but im thinking someone who needs a back up phone for testing roms and such

Wow, I thought mine was in bad shape when someone said "I didn't know those came in black..." "They don't. It's frying grease that's soaked in."

hahaha. I thought I was bad with my phone. I got pissed because I got a little scratch on the screen!
If someone does have info on changing the housing, I might be interested in picking it up. I was gonna buy it to give to my dad so he'd get off his stupid Palm Treo 680 ... but if its all banged up, I would just have to keep it to experiment with then.

Well I'm a cook at one of my jobs and I'd rather keep my wing in my pocket than in my coat or car where it could get nabbed. I guess it's the lesser of the two evils. My screen is flawless though, thank you jerito... I mean screen protectors!

simplicity05 said:
Well I'm a cook at one of my jobs and I'd rather keep my wing in my pocket than in my coat or car where it could get nabbed. I guess it's the lesser of the two evils. My screen is flawless though, thank you jerito... I mean screen protectors!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought some screen protectors, but I hate them. It just doesnt look or feel right to me. I only have a small scratch on the screen too and that was because my brother threw his keys on it when it was laying in my car. I almost killed him
David-
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Original-OE...yZ108649QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
You may be able to contact this seller to see if he has any instructions.

$150 for that? I'll give you $40.
Amazon was selling them new with contract for $50 - and you can pick up a tilt for only $400...

thank you vr24 for contributing to this thread with your amazing comment
-- no blaming--- edit by papamopps

Man it look like you been chewing on that phone... Either that or trying to skin concrete with it.

yeah, its pretty beat up.

How bout I recycle that thing for you for free? How many times did it go through the wood chipper?

Just outta curiosity...
Are you at least offering up a 1GB MicroSD card with the Wing?

yea theres a 1gb microSD included

bumpskies?

duprade said:
hahaha. I thought I was bad with my phone. I got pissed because I got a little scratch on the screen!
If someone does have info on changing the housing, I might be interested in picking it up. I was gonna buy it to give to my dad so he'd get off his stupid Palm Treo 680 ... but if its all banged up, I would just have to keep it to experiment with then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chang the housing is very easy, torks t6 and a very small Phillips and an ipod pry tool but you can always get a nice cover from ebay gray silver black
just goolge herald service manual the one i used was from mick cannon download service manuals

Need UR Help & Reviews. Cracked Glass Screen Repair.... am i being ripped off?

Hello everyone
this is my maiden voyage into this forum having lurked for a while since i got my HD2...
Please stick with me,
I have uncovered some grossly outrageous prices from 2 of the leading hd2 repair teams on the internet in the U.K.......
read on .....
well,
The day i decide to step foot into primark, i drop my hd2 and it drops less than a meter from my hand and catches the corners and shatters the glass screen....
after a slightly delirious 20 minutes of laughing i tried to use my phone.
unbelievably it worked absolutely fine! albeit with cracked glass and fine shards of glass sticking into my fingers....
so i immediately set about trying to find out where i could get it fixed online.
The first stop was TurnOnYourMobile.co.uk who quoted me just over £200 to have the screen replaced. They offered a "We'll beat the Price of our competitors" thing, and so i looked elsewhere .
Hence, next stop, Undercutter.co.uk...
According to the very difficult to use website, it would cost me £85! bargain i thought...
so i went back to TOYM to see if they could do a price match?
the answer was no....
oddly, it seemed that Mark at TOYM used to do the repairs for Undercutter and believed that Simon at Undercutter was confusing the Touch HD with the HD2 and that his quote was incorrect.
Back to Undercutter and when i emailed directly to Simon i was quoted £115 plus £8.50! still less than TOYM but a little bit more than undercutters own website stated! not a good sign!
So i did my own survey of prices of the HTC HD2 screen Glass Screen Digitizer.....
to find that the screen alone ranges from £23.50:gultek.eu/htc-hd2-digitizer.html
to £44.95 mobilefun.co.uk/htc-hd2-replacement-lcd-p23948.htm
I emailed Simon at Undercutter about this!
The fact that the screens were available for Under £50 and yet he was charging nearly £70 on top of that to spend less than 20 minutes replacing the screen..... a Whopping rate of nearly £70 an hour for the repair....
Absolutely extortionate.....
after sending my findings to Simon he sent me an email back saying
"We are not going to justify our repair prices and service further, but if you would like to use our services, please let us know."
so my advice to anyone getting a screen repair is, unless you can afford the extortionate prices, see if you can get it repaired on your insurance, and if that takes too long, try and fix it yourself.....
After my findings, I am tempted to buy a screen and repair it myself.....
But i need your advice.... Is the anyone out there who can fix my phone for a lot cheaper and at a resonable rate???
and If i am to repair it myself, Any tips or instructions on hopw to do it???
Many MAny thanks to you
and thank you for reading.
Darren

___________________________________

please someone... please say something..... come out from the shadows... have a view....
Darren

i think its ok for ppl to ask that much money for it from what i have seen its verry difficult to do.
you have to think for yourself. if you do it yourself and you destroy your phone. what will it cost you? is that risk really worth saving a relative small amount of money?
in my opinion its not.

Hello
I had my screen replaced by HTC in the UK and they charged me £79 +VAT so I would say your being well ripped off mate.

Marshall1975, who did you get yours fixed by? and did they replace it with the glass screen as opposed to a platic alternative i've been hearing about? and was it just the glass that was replaced or the LCD digitizer too?
I have a feeling it's just my glass that needs replacing not the bit underneath it.
jamieeeee, I don't think it's reasonable for people to make that much money out of customers at all, just my view but to make such a big profit out of one customer is shocking.
The reason i've posted my findings is to highlight the nature of people preying on a niche market such as us. HD2 is still fairly uncommon and these companies are making a killing bacause we are a niche market... i think it's dispicable...
Marshall, I haven't got mine fixed yet;. i'm doing my research good and proper first before i go for it....
Thank you so much
Darren

seeksol said:
to find that the screen alone ranges from £23.50:gultek.eu/htc-hd2-digitizer.html
Darren
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is just the plastic digitizer that reads your finger, not the glass.
also, the second link is for the lcd screen not necessarily the glass. (I think im correct in saying it is a three piecesetup, lcd - glass -digitize ((or lcd digitizer glass))

Thanks for the Info SamSamuel...
so can i assume then, that as it's just the glass that is broken that , that is all i need to replace?
My phone still works brilliantly and no touch problems at all other than tiny bits of glass...
does anyone know How crucial it is after a drop to replace the whole lot? as SamSamuel suggested, the 3 parts that make up the screen?
Simon from UnderCutter didn't appear to say that the screens i listed were incorrect? who knows. Does anyone here have more detailed information to what is on there on the market.
Surely these screens must be Official as they are HTC branded?
below another os Simons gems in repsonse to my findings of screens at a lower price.....
If you have the skills to replace the screen yourself then please have a go at buying and fitting. Some cheaper parts don’t work or last very long, so there are cheaper ones out there but don’t hold your breath for a great product.

Also Just wondered if anyone knew of the whereabouts of the video tutorial on how to replace the screen???
and £79 wow, i can't beat that, Where did you get it done Marshall?
darren

seeksol said:
Also Just wondered if anyone knew of the whereabouts of the video tutorial on how to replace the screen???
and £79 wow, i can't beat that, Where did you get it done Marshall?
darren
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the videos are here
but its verry hard to seperate those 2 things..

hmmmm taking the whole of the screen looks fairly simple in the video! but i'm sure there has to be more to it because of all the separate components that make up the screen....
still wiatin got hear from Marshall1975 to see where he got his done.....

Have you contacted your network to see how much they can do the repair for?

seeksol said:
hmmmm taking the whole of the screen looks fairly simple in the video! but i'm sure there has to be more to it because of all the separate components that make up the screen....
still wiatin got hear from Marshall1975 to see where he got his done.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he stated in his post it was directly with HTC in the UK.

Why not plump for HTC. Save the hassle of DIY and its cheaper than the other quotes you have?
When its all fixed, work out how much insurance would cost per year balanced against dropping it, smashing it and repeating the whole process again......

Aha
must've not seen that through my cracked screen!
I have contacted HTC to eagerly await their response which i will post here!
Darren

kbm said:
Why not plump for HTC. Save the hassle of DIY and its cheaper than the other quotes you have?
When its all fixed, work out how much insurance would cost per year balanced against dropping it, smashing it and repeating the whole process again......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I am SERIously getting insurance after this!
I also asked HTC about extending the Warranty.... will wait to hear back...
Darren

_______________________________________

Trackball Screwy

Yesterday afternoon the trackball on my N1 stopped working. it'll scroll everywhere but left. Nothing obviously wrong with it, just wont go. thought i'd give it a minute, push and play with it, see if something gives, but no dice. This morning I called HTC, no questions about bootloader which should not affect a hardware issue anyway. Having a replacement sent today.
Now I'll send this phone back, and they will assumably examine and test it. I would agree with any non-hardware issues being rejected due to unlocked bootloader, however if they contact me and say they will not cover the trackball because of this, I will bite the bullet and pay for the repair or replacement, and won't even be pissy about it. I'm just curious what HTC will do, being as this is obviously a hardware issue which unlocking cannot affect.

Seems 50/50 whether they will cover it or not really.

i had a h/w issue and an unlocked bootloader and they still charged me $55 for a replacement
good luck

As of yesterday my trackball has started being annoying, has trouble scrolling downwards, though is not completely broken. I am reluctant to do an exchange, because mine is a special import and has an unlocked bootloader.
Do you have the number for US HTC anyway?

Daswolven said:
Yesterday afternoon the trackball on my N1 stopped working. it'll scroll everywhere but left. Nothing obviously wrong with it, just wont go. thought i'd give it a minute, push and play with it, see if something gives, but no dice. This morning I called HTC, no questions about bootloader which should not affect a hardware issue anyway. Having a replacement sent today.
Now I'll send this phone back, and they will assumably examine and test it. I would agree with any non-hardware issues being rejected due to unlocked bootloader, however if they contact me and say they will not cover the trackball because of this, I will bite the bullet and pay for the repair or replacement, and won't even be pissy about it. I'm just curious what HTC will do, being as this is obviously a hardware issue which unlocking cannot affect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long did you have the phone before it got to this point? Also were you careful with the phone or (trying to find the words) a little wreckless? Just curious..

liam.lah said:
As of yesterday my trackball has started being annoying, has trouble scrolling downwards, though is not completely broken. I am reluctant to do an exchange, because mine is a special import and has an unlocked bootloader.
Do you have the number for US HTC anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1-888-216-4736
Nexus One specific hotline. They're nice people.

ChillRays said:
How long did you have the phone before it got to this point? Also were you careful with the phone or (trying to find the words) a little wreckless? Just curious..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you must be an HTC insider...
this shouldn't matter it's covered for a year, no matter how he uses the trackball

zachthemaster said:
you must be an HTC insider...
this shouldn't matter it's covered for a year, no matter how he uses the trackball
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no just curious because I myself am looking into buying this phone. I don't want to repeat someone else's mistakes (if there are any mistakes at all). Not related to this but i've heard plenty of times where someone has said "if I was a little more careful, this wouldn't have happend". I'm trying to find a bunch of those situations so I don't fall for them. Thats it..

ChillRays said:
no just curious because I myself am looking into buying this phone. I don't want to repeat someone else's mistakes (if there are any mistakes at all). Not related to this but i've heard plenty of times where someone has said "if I was a little more careful, this wouldn't have happend". I'm trying to find a bunch of those situations so I don't fall for them. Thats it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh well im a hard user of the trackball and its fine. what other things do you wanna know? ive had three of these so im a pro haha

Thanks for the number.
I can't help but wonder if me using "trackball wakeup" has contributed to this, I hope not, because it is damn handy to use.

liam.lah said:
Thanks for the number.
I can't help but wonder if me using "trackball wakeup" has contributed to this, I hope not, because it is damn handy to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have that as well on cyanogen 506. honestly it should be fine.
if it sticks, clean the ball with a very miniscule amount of alcohol, it'll break the dirt down and youll be good to go. or just dont think about it everytime you touch it (i used to be that way and now im better off. ha)
oh and a friendly tip.
EVERYTIME you're done using the TB, WIPE IT ON YOUR SHIRT or something cloth. thats the best way to clean it. up and down on your shirt. side to side even too

zachthemaster said:
oh well im a hard user of the trackball and its fine. what other things do you wanna know? ive had three of these so im a pro haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Needless to say I think i've heard every problem you could possibly have with this phone happen. From the screen cracking from a 1 foot drop to the camera app not working, to this post. However, I'm going with the n1 anyway. I'm sure that for every bad nexus one, theres 1,999 good ones. Anyway the only thing I need help with is finding a good case that will prevent damage because I have been known for dropping my phone alot.
My friends have told me to go with the "seidio innocase II" and others have said get a crystal silicone case. What do you recommend?

ChillRays said:
Needless to say I think i've heard every problem you could possibly have with this phone happen. From the screen cracking from a 1 foot drop to the camera app not working, to this post. However, I'm going with the n1 anyway. I'm sure that for every bad nexus one, theres 1,999 good ones. Anyway the only thing I need help with is finding a good case that will prevent damage because I have been known for dropping my phone alot.
My friends have told me to go with the "seidio innocase II" and others have said get a crystal silicone case. What do you recommend?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i just use the included neoprene case and a lot of careful handling. why dont you waltz over to cases and accessories!
but really the neoprene case is just enough for me because i like the naked look and feel of the phone. plus the case was free!

zachthemaster said:
i just use the included neoprene case and a lot of careful handling. why dont you waltz over to cases and accessories!
but really the neoprene case is just enough for me because i like the naked look and feel of the phone. plus the case was free!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I've seen those. I tried to get one from ebay and one went for 40 dollars. Screw it, i'll get the free one that comes with the phone. I just hope that offers enough protection. I will check out the cases and accessories. Thanks master =)

ChillRays said:
Yeah I've seen those. I tried to get one from ebay and one went for 40 dollars. Screw it, i'll get the free one that comes with the phone. I just hope that offers enough protection. I will check out the cases and accessories. Thanks master =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no problem man. it definitely offers enough protection. but thats my personal use, i handle the thing like a new born so if thats any indication then ya. if you're gonna drop it... dont. haha

ChillRays said:
How long did you have the phone before it got to this point? Also were you careful with the phone or (trying to find the words) a little wreckless? Just curious..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had it since release. I ordered it about 30 minutes after the google.com/phone site was up and running. I am always careful with my devices, and use cases and protectors. My phone has never been dropped or mishandled. By way of example, I also got my G1 on release day, and when i got my nexus I was able to sell it on Ebay for $250 with a review about the immaculate condition of the phone he had received. He said it looked like it just came out of the original box.
I hold babies with less precision and attention.

Easy fix
I had the same problem but mine wouldn't scroll down. After getting the run-around on the phone from HTC, I tried to fix it myself. It took less than 10 seconds.
Just grab the ball using your finger nails or something similar, and twist the ball a little bit. it'll loosen up built up dirt and oil on the sensors, and viola! You should be able to scroll again. If not, then you need a replacement.

miketuesday said:
I had the same problem but mine wouldn't scroll down. After getting the run-around on the phone from HTC, I tried to fix it myself. It took less than 10 seconds.
Just grab the ball using your finger nails or something similar, and twist the ball a little bit. it'll loosen up built up dirt and oil on the sensors, and viola! You should be able to scroll again. If not, then you need a replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I would try this if the replacement hadn't been delivered to my doorstep like 5 minutes ago. Downside = I suppose I will need to run stock for a few weeks in case they refuse to accept the return because of the bootloader. Will make me appreciate devs all the more.
UPDATE: AAARRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! I AM RESTORING MY BEAUTIFUL PHONE TO STOCK STATE! OMFGPLSGODWHYISTHISHAPPENINGTOME! WILL BE RUNNING STOCK FOR A WEEK OR SO AFTER. HUGE CAN OF SUCK.
Update: okay, so this isn't that bad. Sigh.

I effed up, learn from my mistake...

Well, I'll be getting my $100 replacement tomorrow.
I'm usually very handy with electronics, I used to take my Blackberry's apart all the time and blow the dust out.
So I read up on disassembling the EVO and thought "this is gonna be a piece of cake". Well every set of instructions I found said it was SOO easy to take it apart, what they didn't say was they were assuming you have a replacement screen ready to go and that trying to remove the screen from the bezel separated the touch input from the backside of the glass.
Maybe I did it wrong but I broke my precious and almost cried.. a little.
I no longer have any touch input on the bottom half of the screen including the 4 buttons at the bottom. And you can see from the front how it looks like a clear sticker has been pulled apart from the glass. The LCD is fine, just totally jacked up the touch input.
So the purpose of this thread is to warn anyone else who may consider disassembling their EVO to read more than I did.
It may actually be very easy to get the thing apart, getting it back together is another story

Ouch man that sucks
From the fade

Condolences for the dear departed one. A point well taken, thanks!
Although I've "played" with dismantling many electronics during my days, this is one I would not take on. I even opted for the additional cost with BestBuy for their low price replacement for our 2 Evo's.

hmmm........

Aww man so sorry for you lost. That's great you've put up this post as I was just thinking about replacing my evo casing from all the cosmetic damage I've put on it while dropping. Thanks to you my friend this make my decision much easier.

I was going to do the same thing for the same purpose. Thanks for the heads up.
Sent From My HTC Evo 4G Using Tapa Talk Pro!

Part the EVO out so that she may live on in someone else's phone.
BTW that quote is hilarious. I think I remember seeing that around somewhere.

lmao....smh

Couldn't you have just bought a screen on ebay for cheaper?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Reminds me when I took apart my g1 to change the housing, it was a mess of circuit boards, wires and ribbons.

Can anyone else share their similar experiences? I have a large amount of dust in the upper left in my week old evo, and would would like to clean it out.
Sent from my EVO

Hmmm. you can buy the touch screen for like $50-$60 on ebay unless you are talking about a different part.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HTC-EVO-4G-TOUCH-SCREEN-LENS-DIGITIZER-REPLACEMENT-/130419345987?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item1e5d994a43

malibu_23 said:
lmao....smh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..what does "smh" mean?
tinybfk said:
Couldn't you have just bought a screen on ebay for cheaper?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwertz said:
Hmmm. you can buy the touch screen for like $50-$60 on ebay unless you are talking about a different part.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HTC-EVO-4G-TOUCH-SCREEN-LENS-DIGITIZER-REPLACEMENT-/130419345987?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item1e5d994a43
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn, I didn't even think of looking. Actually my girl called Sprint and ordered the replacement the next morning without telling me.
It arrived this morning, its a refurb. The bezel is cracked and there's a bright spot on the screen. I called asurion right away, they shipped another already. Im keeping my fingers crossed that the next is in better condition.
Thanks for the link though!

if that was me a piece of me would have died

nebenezer said:
..what does "smh" mean?
Thanks for the link though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.internetslang.com/default.asp?s=smh

phatmanxxl said:
http://www.internetslang.com/default.asp?s=smh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. yeah I've done quite a lot of that lately..
thanks for the link

nebenezer said:
lol.. yeah I've done quite a lot of that lately..
thanks for the link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, MTFBWY

That sucks alot!!!

I did the same thing, wish I'd have read this post first! I had the dust in the upper left of my screen. I have taken this phone apart before, but not removed the glass. In attempting to remove the glass I messed up the upper right corner of the touch screen (just a small area but still sucks!) and now the tint of some colors is messed up. Also rashed up the plastic on the edges some. Oh and I did get the glass off just enough to spread the friggin dust all around haha. Oh well it's livable until June when I can get a full upgrade (hopefully the EVO 3D!). Let my post here serve as a SECOND warning for those who want to attempt to remove the dust themselves. The glass is glued down and you pretty much have to destroy the phone to remove it. Don't try it!!

dwertz said:
Hmmm. you can buy the touch screen for like $50-$60 on ebay unless you are talking about a different part.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HTC-EVO-4G-TOUCH-SCREEN-LENS-DIGITIZER-REPLACEMENT-/130419345987?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item1e5d994a43
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ordered this same part and a new housing because I cracked my digitizer earlier this week. Thanks for the post, OP, because I plan on taking mine apart this weekend to replace it. Wish me luck! lol

[Q] Replacing the Surround's Screen?

I managed to scratch my HTC Surround's screen when I dropped it the other day. It's a fairly large scratch and it's bothering me enough that I'm looking to get it fixed. I've seen some auctions on eBay for the HTC Surround's digitizer but have no idea how I would go about removing the screen to replace the digitizer. ifixit's guide doesn't seem to show how either. Am I better off just seeing if HTC can repair it? How much do you think it'd cost?

I owned a Tilt for a very long time, so long, that I replaced almost every part of the phone. This was a difficult and time consuming process. I would definitely find out what it would cost to have it done professionally and compare that to what the digitizer plus tools to disassemble your phone would cost. Not to mention any warranty you might no longer have, labor, possible damage...etc.
As far as I'm concerned, having a legit reason to take apart my phone is right up my alley, so it's all up to you. Either way, let us know how it works out and I wish you the best of luck.
PS, pics will be awesome if you do!

HTC gave me an estimate of about $120. However, the person on the line said it may end up being more and if I decide to not go through with the repairs, it'll be $39 to get it back. So I did some Googling and found Mission:Repair. Apparently they offer Glass/Digitizer screen repair for just $99. They have some good reviews on Yelp but it's mostly for iPhone's, iPods, and MacBooks. I think I'll give them a shot and post a review on them later.

That sounds decent and worth not having the hassle. Definitely keep us updated and I wish you luck!
How much was the digitizer + Shipping and whatnot

youtube.com/watch?v=TFmQigK6u1w

valajax said:
youtube.com/watch?v=TFmQigK6u1w
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this video would be a high five if it showed how to get to the screen but it does nothing but give you a video representation of the ifixit.com's walk through that only goes that far.
I myself bought the new digitizer and it came with the tools and all....I couldn't figure out how to get to the screen. I ripped the thing into pieces but couldn't get the screen section to budge.
Edit:
I wound up taking it to a local shop. I could barely tell what they were doing. I couldn't see how they got the two halves apart but the screen itself is well glued into place. The final review by the guy was "it was a pain in the ass". :/

I did it
I did it and i uploaded a home-made video. Look at the Surround General Forum.
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1217885

a little wrong will make your surround a brick

****angke said:
a little wrong will make your surround a brick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, You must be very careful... do it at your own risk