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Looks like HTC is considering creating their own smartphone OS:
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=5814
Good idea or a bad one? I vote bad since it does nothing but dilute the market even further. And while their Sense UI on WinMo may be buggy because of the fact that it runs on top of WinMo, it's not encouraging to see that they haven't found a way to fix the problem with their text messaging app after all this time.
And who will write apps for that OS?
This thread needs a poll
Bad Idea.
Android is too new to just write it off at this point in the game. I know it has its issues, but I personally think it's the future.
Windows Phone 7 is brand-spankin' new. I don't like it, considering all that I've heard about it. Like how they plan to lock it down. But if they can get a decent app store up and running, they could be competing with Apple very quickly. Never count Microsoft out. Google made that mistake and now look at Bing.
iPhone OS 4.0: Apple pretty much just granted 90% of the wishes that people harbored. Sure, it's still locked down, but my friends swear by their iPhones. Personally, I can't stand 'em. I even gave my 2yo daughter my iPod Touch (2nd Gen), no joke.
Maemo and Nokia are now in bed together, which means that Android is in for a world of hurt, at least in Japan and Europe.
Too many cell phone manufacturers roll their own OS. This is always a problem with people like me, who want to be able to control their phones.
If HTC were to release the OS source code, I would be happy to give it a shot. Unfortunately that only happens when the OS is based on an already-open system, like Linux
.
#ListMaster
Snarksneeze said:
This thread needs a poll
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Ack, looks like I can't add it after I create it. Perhaps a mod can add it for me.
HTC is currently believed to be the leader in the pack of companies that are expressing interest in buying Palm, now that it's officially accepting offers.
WebOS is a great operating system just looking for some proper hardware and market penetration...and we all know who has plenty of both!
sirphunkee said:
HTC is currently believed to be the leader in the pack of companies that are expressing interest in buying Palm, now that it's officially accepting offers.
WebOS is a great operating system just looking for some proper hardware and market penetration...and we all know who has plenty of both!
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+1
WebOS, under proper management and direction, and coupled with HTC's literal hardware design genius could be something I'd consider serious potential competition for Android.
so, i come from a Windows Mobile background (HTC Wizard first, Samsung Code after that). I've never owned an iPhone or played much with one.
we happened to be in the mall around the apple store and it was unbelievably packed (seriously). so we went in while we waited for our friends. and i started to play with an iPhone 4...and i'm not changing my phone...obviously. i pulled out the evo and I had my newly converted Avatar playing and got many looks from customers there....
anyways, point is while trying out the iphone I got to play guitar hero on it and it was great...so i got out of that store wanting to keep my phone and get a new game for it. when I go search on the market the only guitar hero on there has horrible reviews???
has anyone played a guitar hero / band hero type of game for the evo that works well? i dont want the iphone but just that game has had me thinking about it all day!
on another note...when do you guys think we'll start to have the amount of big companies developing for android like for the iphone? i would like to get some premium games!
I know what you mean about big companies developing for the Android Platform. With the fact that Android Devices are now over taking the Iphone.. I would say that it won't be long before we start seeing apps flying out from those same companies that have been dedicating there apps for just the Iphone. They can't ignore the market and the shares that Android phones have now taken. IMOP it's going to happen real soon that we start seeing them. I've noticed a lot more apps being developed across both platforms. Not to mention when you have phones with the speed like the EVO; they know more Iphone users are starting to jump over to the Android platform.
I have seen a few GH games for Android and they are pretty decent IMHO.
well i tried Guitar Hero World Tour and couldn't get past the login screen. after awkwardly putting in my username....what? no ok, next, arrow, nothing to move past that screen. nothing on the menu button...just nothing! and then it force closed...so uninstall and refund.
now i'm trying Guitar Hero 5...it's not perfect but at least it works. i have the idea that the one for iPhone was still better, but from what i'm seeing this is a 3rd party app whereas the iPhone one was official Guitar Hero (from their site).
i got another 23 hours to decide if i want to keep this $10 game
any other recommendations? i know there's a lot of apps that wont show up in the market, maybe you guys know of some killer game like this that's out there?
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
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Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
Zori said:
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
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This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
bnrbranding said:
This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
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I agree that goes on the books as one of the dumbest arguments i have read. i mean it would never be possible to make an app that let you choose your resolution or make it default to the resolution of the device it is being used on such as with almost every full screen computer game/program :O thats impossible. oh wait no it isnt.
The android platform will pass up iOS (if it hasnt already thought i read it already did but will give benefit of the doubt to apple). The fact that they bring out so many phones is exactly WHY it is going to. you have 1 phone (ok 2 if you count last gen) for sale normally with iOS. you have how many android devices? A LOT. the longer it is out and the more people actually get to use it the fewer iphone drones there will be and the more android will flourish and with that comes more development.
Many developers have already started (though some of them seem not to have done there homework) EA for example has already started...though they said they wished android had an app delivery system such as the istore .... (they apparently haven't heard of the app market in android)..but they are starting to develop.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
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It's a decent argument. They aren't selling these games for $50 like they would on Windows. When you are selling a game for $2-5, margins are slim. Look at the high end games right now, they usually have to make several versions of the game to work for PowerVR GPUs, Adreno, etc.
As for resolution independence, not completely. Android uses raster images for a lot of UI elements. If you look in a APK, you'll see a resource folder that holds image data for various resolutions, usually just two (320x480 and ~800x480). There is no folder for higher resolution tablets so either they'll a) be blurry from scaling up or b) have a lot of empty space in the app. Option A would be the same as how the iOS does it for the iPad. Anyway, this a non issue to me (and hopefully everyone else too). Why use a tablet for phone size apps? I want tablet apps, I already have a damn 4.3" Android phone.
One last point about resolution problems, since Apps have to include weighty graphic files for all resolutions it also has to carry the added file size. So the more resolutions it has to support, the bigger the file. Because Apple was in control of the hardware they were able to do something that works: just double the resolution (320x480 to 640x960). Apps made for both resolutions look the same regardless of which resolution it was originally made for since they can scale 1:1.
Here is why developers don't like the Android Marketplace:
1) Fragmentation, yes it's real. No matter how much you argue, developing for Android requires more work than iOS. That is a fact.
2) Payment method. It sucks on Android and doesn't on iOS. A lower ratio of user buy paid apps on Android and that's a fact.
3) Not as many countries even support paid apps at all. This hurts it a lot.
4) User base is still much larger on iOS.
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
omegasun18 said:
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
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By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
Award Tour said:
By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
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Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
werxen said:
Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
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I agree with the other poster, if the buyers are there, developers will invest into the platform. Android Hardware fragmentation will never be solved and will always be a pain to developers. That said, it'll be a pain they'll tolerate but not until they fix the broken Marketplace that is preventing/pushing people from buying apps.
I feel in time, android phones will be more alike, after they find one good setup... But also more people are coming to the adroid phone which will drive the demand for devs, so I feel they will start producing in the near future.
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
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I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
dag16 said:
I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
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Yeah I don't know why some people in here are doubting my argument like I am making frivolous claims. This is my job - to work in programming and simulations. My boss used to work for EA. He still helps dev teams out with the iPhone. Lots of people on these forums just talk talk talk talk like they know what they are talking about. Sad.
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
That's idiotic. Game development by big players is happening right now. Remember that Android didn't have powerful hardware in a mass market seller until the Droid, which was released only a year ago. Now that the hardware base is full of Evo, Droid X/2 and Galaxy S phones, there's a huge opportunity. Not to mention that Android will likely be the #2 smartphone OS in another year, and probably dominant in the US.
Couple that with the fact that Android is easier to develop for than iOS, and a company would have to have some retarded management to disregard Android.
The person who said they wont get involved because of hardware differences is absolutely correct and its been said its the reason why android has been somewhat held back. When the iphone4 and evo first came out u read that's in an article. The development tools are harder to use also probably due toso many different hardware specs. But it also said that developers think android is the future and will be better than iOS. Eventually we'll see better games but its really does make sense about thee difficulties of turing to develop something on devices with completely different hardware specs. And its not the same as computers because most computers can be upgrades on the hardware front or they come barely good enough to work with a particular software.
Relative Smartphone O/S Market Shares
I can't speak to the relative speed of game development on the respective phone platforms, but I can say that Android's market share gains are pretty formidable. According to the latest reports, Android is closing in on RIM and Apple for smartphone operating system market share in the U.S..
On a worldwide basis, Android appears to be in third place behind Symbian (by a large margin) and closely on the heels of RIM.
I wanted to provide a link to the source of that information, but was not allowed to do so. Thus, I'll simply say that you can find an article called "An Analysis and Valuation of The Success Story Formally Known as Android" on the Zero Hedge website.
I'd be shocked if the top mobile gaming titles weren't available on Android in the foreseeable future.
okay first i dont know if it will be based on the galaxy s line or not but if it is these are the reasons i believe it will be.
1) 7 million galaxy s phones sold. i dont think an explanation is needed here.
2) 6-axis motion well this is a phone already made with hardware that is supposed to be supported in gingerbread, along with 7 million galaxy s users. thats a user base already set up for developers to jump into 6 axis apps. smart move.
3) gpu! if the orion set is used every single android user will be screwed. think about it. the nexus line is for developers, it sets a bar for apps to be designed for. all of the phones coming out, scorpion procs and tegra 2s have close to hummingbird gpu performance.so it only makes sense.
4) its galaxy s not galaxy 2. this is simple the nexus s would allow developers the chance to design apps for phones out and coming out. not blow every one alway and make everyone buy new phones coming out a year from now that can keep up.
5) software support. a nexus s means proper jit for the arm8 based procs. like the hummingbird and the motorola crowd. both are based closer to arm8 specs and both will benefit. also the software support for nexus s will help sammy with the entire galaxy s line.
6) big finale. the orion blows away everything coming out. having a galaxy s based nexus allows sammy to come out with the next super phone that will milk money from everywhere. just like the galaxy s line. a nexus s means sammy might see that 10 million on the galaxy s line. with improved software for the entire line, and developer support. along with more customer that will switch to galaxy 2(more money)
7) last but not least, the nexus line doing what its intended for. developer phone. the nexus one was a huge success but not in sales. it set a bar for developers and phone manufacturers. by coming out with a nexus s google doesnt have to worry about sales. the line already has 7 million. the idea is to push the bar of the platform and set a phone that all others must meet or exceed.
so basically the nexus s with the hummingbird will set a bar gpu wise for app developers and push android into more gaming without losing support for current and coming phones. it will also introduce 6 axis and other technology, most we already have. it will optimize the jit for arm8/9 and set a base for future phones to meet. with this much graphic performance we might see gpu accelerated ui, either in gingerbread or honeycomb. both the nexus line will see. so there are my thoughts behind googles nexus s possibility. its a smart move and will unify android development while still killing apple. its all about customer support and being better than the rest. also money(money money money)
I would like to hear other opinions
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I actually agree with you fully here. You bring up some excellent points.
Something that really hurts android is its serious lack in gaming. The iPhone and iPod Touch have actually become real consoles, and are taking charge in that field with new features such as "Game Center".
The reason why companies don't bother with Android devices, is because of the difficulty of supporting all phones.
Setting the standard with this higher GPU, would definitely help Android in that respect.
With Samsung, Google can also highlight the importance of the display. The only display that can actually compete with the Retina at this point is the sAMOLED, and Google wants to be competitive in that field as well, by teaming with Samsung.
I think it is smart of Google to join with a company that has already done the research and already has the means to produce the hardware for a phone that Google is designing more advanced software for.
nearblack said:
The reason why companies don't bother with Android devices, is because of the difficulty of supporting all phones.
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This is the part I don't understand. Microsoft made it an open platform to support all kinds of hardware in their Windows OS, which is the primary reason why they are dominating the desktop/laptop segment. How come we don't see Android OS replicating this success in the Mobile OS platform? I know its apples to oranges but you cant help but see some resemblance and question why you do not see the same results.
anthonys2r said:
This is the part I don't understand. Microsoft made it an open platform to support all kinds of hardware in their Windows OS, which is the primary reason why they are dominating the desktop/laptop segment. How come we don't see Android OS replicating this success in the Mobile OS platform? I know its apples to oranges but you cant help but see some resemblance and question why you do not see the same results.
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MS releases a major Windows update every 3-6yrs. Google has released 4 major revisions in 2 yrs. That's the reason. It takes resources to get your phone up-to-snuff - you can't dedicate these resources to constantly improve something, so mfgs let their products stagnate. The PC is one-and-done for years at a time.
jokersax11 said:
I would like to hear other opinions
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I'd like to see more capitalization in (especially) long-ass posts. Everyone wants some thing.
-bZj
anthonys2r said:
This is the part I don't understand. Microsoft made it an open platform to support all kinds of hardware in their Windows OS, which is the primary reason why they are dominating the desktop/laptop segment. How come we don't see Android OS replicating this success in the Mobile OS platform? I know its apples to oranges but you cant help but see some resemblance and question why you do not see the same results.
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Actually it is. In one year android went from 3% to 25%, thats massive. And he meant app devs not supporting android as well. The reason comes to money market and software. Apple has an edge on the gaming field mostly because of money and software more fit for gaming. This is something google is fixing and will dominate. The ndk is the main reason we have decent games but more needs to be done and more is being done. For the moment apple has the app developers, but android has the support and customer base that will change all that. Please remember android is java based. What I think google should do is create a multilevel programming language with at least 3 levels. Low level functions for native use mid level like java with byte code and finally high level thats web based. All in a single language allowing the best performance and compatibility.
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jokersax11 said:
Actually it is. In one year android went from 3% to 25%, thats massive. And he meant app devs not supporting android as well. The reason comes to money market and software. Apple has an edge on the gaming field mostly because of money and software more fit for gaming. This is something google is fixing and will dominate. The ndk is the main reason we have decent games but more needs to be done and more is being done. For the moment apple has the app developers, but android has the support and customer base that will change all that. Please remember android is java based.
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All we have to do is wait, then after that android will have more developers.
jokersax11 said:
Actually it is. In one year android went from 3% to 25%, thats massive. And he meant app devs not supporting android as well. The reason comes to money market and software. Apple has an edge on the gaming field mostly because of money and software more fit for gaming. This is something google is fixing and will dominate. The ndk is the main reason we have decent games but more needs to be done and more is being done. For the moment apple has the app developers, but android has the support and customer base that will change all that. Please remember android is java based. What I think google should do is create a multilevel programming language with at least 3 levels. Low level functions for native use mid level like java with byte code and finally high level thats web based. All in a single language allowing the best performance and compatibility.
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By putting Android on every crappy piece of hardware imaginable.
Unless you think Backflips, Arias, and the barrage of low-quality devices are superphones.
Windows Mobile did the same thing, and paid for it.
Manufacturers use Android because it's cheap. Android jumping up so much in marketshare was not surprising to anyone. The tech press just rode the tidal wave because it's Google and supposedly "Open." They love things like that, and they love drama (pitting companies against each other i.e. iOS vs. Android vs. WinMo/WP7 vs. Nokia).
With the amount of support a majority of Android handsets get (updates, etc.), they mind as well be feature phones. The same could be said for a plethora of Windows Mobile 5.0-6.x and Symbian devices.
if you look at the sdk's new features its obvious the galaxy s was the perfect phone
wrong thread sryz
I was reading an article on Android Police the other day entitled Why Android's Greatest Threat Isn't Apple - It's Microsoft.
I think the article has a lot of merit - the author could quite well be spot on.
I don't know about anyone else but I've been so focused on the Google and Apple recently that I didn't even stop to think about where Microsoft has been lately and what they've been up to.
Everyday there is something in the news about Google and/or Apple - their new products, services, another lawsuit or otherwise - there is always something. As for Microsoft, in comparison there is virtually nothing - or at least nothing of great interest.
All of sudden, out of no where, Microsoft announces the release of Surface. A day or two later, Windows Phone 8.
Surface, from what I've seen and read about it so far looks quite promising. Whether it's an iPad killer, or even whether it will make any dint at all in the tablet market is yet to be seen but in any case, I think it stands a good chance.
Windows Phone 8 is what's really grabbing my attention. The more I read about it the more intrigued I am to actually get my hands on one and test it out.
I've been a die hand Android/Google fan for a few years now and absolutely love Google's products and services - I never thought I would be dragged from them. There is something about Windows Phone 8, and even Microsoft in general recently that is causing me to pay great attention to what they are up to.
Do you think that Microsoft is a force to be reckoned with? If they play the game correctly, do you think we could see Microsoft taking on Apple and Google with brute force?
Obviously Microsoft is going to have to work damn hard to put even a dint in the tablet and smart phone market at the moment but if executed correctly, I think they have real potential to seriously cause some damage and shake up the market to a great extent.
I'm just throwing a few random thoughts and ideas out there. I could be way off and the release of Surface and Windows Phone 8 wont make one bit of difference at all. Time will tell I guess.
Your thoughts?
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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I totally agree with this. As a show of good faith, MS should allow early adopters to trade phones when the new ones come out. Something like $100 credit for the Lumia 710, $200 for the 800, $300 for the 900 etc.
But they would never do that.
slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA
I think Microsft is in full panic mode. The Iphone/Ipad and Android devices have shown the average consumer that they dont need Windows any more. Microsoft is scrambling to unify their interface so that they can hang on to curent customers. WP7/7.5 was a stopgap mesure to introduce the UI but fill the void while they readied Windows 8. unfourtunatly it might already be too late as the consumer market moves to Android and IOS and Windows 7 is looking like its going to be XP's second comming. (corporate use which is just starting to adopt win 7 will hang on to it for the next 15 years like XP) Windows 8 will just kinda pop in and out like Vista did. wich is good for the consumer becaus finally after 20 years of windows being the only game in town we will have choice. the big thing i think Microsoft missed and Google is just getting is the the secret to IOS's sccess was the content not the device itself. Apple got it all going in the 2003 with Itunes music store.
I used to be a WM man.....
....Until they stopped supporting it, then I went over to Android and never looked back, I would never trust Microsoft again, I can see the same thing happening again if they deem there is not enough profit in it for them.
densetsu86 said:
The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA
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The point I was emphasizing was that MS abandoned literally every previous phone. The Lumia was a flagship that just came out a few months ago. Thats like the HTC One X not getting a new software update if it were to come the next few months. Anyone who recently signed a contract for a WP7 I feel sincerely sorry for them.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
I agree that Microsoft has made some mistakes, especially with the upgrade fiasco because that was one of the claimed benefits to Microsoft, that like apple Microsoft controlled the update process and surely if you bought a phone you would see the newest update.
Although that doesn't bother me so much as I haven't gotten a wp7 device to get shafted. Wp8 does look intriguing. Especially the the amount that the mobile and pc operating share code. Hell directX support would make games awesome. However, one thing that after going from windows mobile and android that I don't see myself doing without, is the possibility to side load and use a file explorer. Without that I don't see myself using a smart phone is without that. It's just less pc like to me. If that was possible, Wp8 would look very promising. But heres to Microsoft riding Apple's coattails.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
I have been intrigued by windows phone 7 for a while now but I held back from getting one for one reason...windows 8 or whatever they were gonna call it. Basically I wanted to sit back and see how they were gonna further develop the platform to real big maturity.
The os itself looks really promising and smooth and has a lot of potential. I love the idea of live tiles and the metro UI. I'm quite sure I will be getting a windows 8 device and it won't be a PC first off either! Perhaps a tablet of smartphone.
I think windows is indeed perhaps the biggest threat to android in the long term. Unless apple really bring some innovation and make some changes to that plain boring iOS user interface. But yes windows phone 8 looks awesome and has loads and loads of potential.
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I feel that android and iOS in the phone industry will always be stable, people don't need to photoshop something or do something that requires a laptop or desktop on their cellphones. I do however believe android's and iOS's greatest threats is windows 8 on tablets whether its arm based or x86/x64 based just because its a better purchase, you have a laptop when you need it and a tablet when your on the go, that's one of the reasons why I replaced my laptop with the acer w500 tablet
PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.
mckeowngoo said:
PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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Behind by what metric? Sales? Sure. Technologically? After yesterday I really don't think that's the case. I am not sold on the entire interface and metro design ideas, but you can see the phones are pretty capable. If anyone is behind to me, it seems like Apple is woefully behind...
GnatGoSplat said:
I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.
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Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
The bottom line is that the upgrade experience on all of these mobile devices is incredibly poor. No one really does it right. At this point they should be as open as PCs. You buy a phone, you install whatever OS or software you want. The idea that carriers, and to a lesser extent OEMs, have any say on this over the user is ludicrous.
Jared.M said:
Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
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I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.
GnatGoSplat said:
I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.
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after owning an iphone 3gs I can say that it is a name upgrade only, when my device was upgraded to ios 4 not only was it slow, but it was crashing when I was trying to run apps that were designed for ios 4 and tbh id rather have not been upgraded than have been upgraded to software that was crashing my phone and making it almost impossible to use
sure you get an upgrade but tbh if a phone cant handle a newer os wouldn't it be better to have a good user experience on an earlier version and miss out on some of the new things than it is to have one like I described above
now I'm not defending Microsoft for dumping windows phone 7 for what ever the hell is next but apple is just as bad for breaking peoples phones so they HAVE to buy new ones because of how unusable their phones become
Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.
satchef1 said:
Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.
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They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
fo.manush said:
They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
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like yourself I also found windows phone 7 to be tasteless for the same reason, but you have to remember this is windows 8, a computer os, not a phone one, you can run every app you can from your desktop on x86 tablets and hybrids
the arm version I'm a bit skeptical about but there is going to be a way to emulate x86/x64 apps on the arm tablets, whether its official or through a company like VMware.
plus its not just about the apps but its also the games that improve as well, you can play full pc games on windows 8 along side with those mini games like angry birds and fruit ninja. not very many tablets out there that can play just cause 2 or call of duty, plus with xbox live integrated it will be a HUGE calling for children who use xbox live on a daily basis, heck its not even kids that will enjoy the xbox live integration, adults can as well. imagine playing hydro thunder or some other multiplayer game with your child while you are out of state/country
windows 8 does pose a huge threat to the android and iOS tablet market shares, sure its not gonna kill them off completely because you got your fan boys on both ends but its gonna be like the pc market share is now 90% windows, 9% apple, 1% inux/android
vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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^THIS
vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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Actually, Both in Plat Store and Apple Apps Store, There are what we call universal apps fir both phone and tablet. 1 app for 2 devices. nothing new. Except for the PC part
I saw this article on CNN, I tought it might interest some people here.
Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/18/tech/gaming-gadgets/samsung-apple-innovation/
(CNN) -- There's no arguing that Apple set the standard for modern mobile devices with the iPhone and the iPad. It didn't take long after those two products launched for competitors to rush out their own copycat devices.
Even then, it took another few years before Android was good enough to go toe to toe with iOS, Apple's mobile operating system.
But it's no longer about being just as good as Apple. You have to be better. Competitors have built upon the foundation Apple laid in mobile and are now leapfrogging it with bunch of useful features you can't find on iPhones and iPads.
The evidence is everywhere, but it's most apparent in products made by Apple's biggest mobile rival, Samsung.
By now, Samsung's Galaxy devices have become synonymous with Android, to the point that the manufacturer has more brand recognition than any other phone or tablet running Google's operating system. A lot of that has to do with Samsung's massive marketing budget, but you can't ignore the fact that the company has innovated a lot by creating popular new product categories that Apple is wary to try.
The best example of this is the Galaxy Note, a smartphone-tablet hybrid with a giant screen. When that device first hit the United States about a year ago, critics (including me) slammed the device for being too large. It couldn't fit comfortably in your pocket. It was really thick. And it came with a stylus, that relic of the Palm Pilot era, making the Note feel like a step backward.
None of that mattered. Samsung sold at least 10 million Galaxy Notes. The company came out with an updated version with an even larger screen called the Galaxy Note II a few months later and sold another 5 million (at last count), a very big achievement for a single Android device.
But more importantly, Samsung created a new category of smartphone that people didn't even know they wanted, much like Apple did when it released the first iPhone.
Samsung isn't afraid to tout its cool factor either. Since the first commercial debuted in late 2011, you've probably seen those "Next Big Thing" ads that make fun of starry-eyed Apple fans waiting in line for the next iPhone. Whether it's boasting about the bigger screens or sharing content by tapping phones together, Samsung seems content to blast Apple for its stuffiness while showing in a practical context what its devices can do.
On the software side of things, Samsung is taking advantage of its mobile devices' processing power to layer premium features on top of Android, such as the ability to run two apps at once in a split screen or separate window. Samsung's best tablet, the Galaxy Note 10.1, can do all that plus take advantage of a stylus so you can draw and take notes on the screen.
There is a downside to the split-screen thing, however. Developers have to tweak their apps to work in split-screen mode on the Note 10.1. There are only about 20 apps right now that can do it.
But what's most important is how nimble Samsung has become at improving its mobile devices through software updates. The Note 10.1 launched last fall, but it received a software update with a new version of Android and a slew of other features like the voice assistant Google Now, which is a lot more impressive than Apple's original Siri.
Samsung's director of product planning, Shoneel Kolhatkar, said the company takes user and reviewer feedback into account when preparing to deliver new software updates. Instead of making users wait a year for new features, Kolhatkar said Samsung can use that feedback to deliver "incremental innovation that keeps the product alive."
"We want to keep the product relevant to consumers," Kolhatkar said. "It's about how to fit our devices into people's lives versus changing their behavior."
Samsung isn't alone, of course. Microsoft's new Windows 8 operating system is built for touchscreen devices like tablets, too, and it offers a lot of advantages over iOS. All Windows 8 apps can run in a split screen so you can run two at once, plus the main menu is capable of displaying real-time updates for stuff like news and weather. Microsoft even has its own line of Surface tablets that blur the line between PC and laptop thanks to a clever snap-on keyboard cover.
Based on all this evidence, Apple feels behind. Take a look at its newest fourth-generation iPad. It has a killer processor and other great hardware features, but the operating system doesn't take advantage of any of that. The home screen is still just a grid of static icons that launch apps.
Apple also isn't nearly as versatile at adding new software features to its devices. Apple usually makes users wait a year or more for a new version of iOS, and even then some older devices can't access all the latest and greatest features.
Apple CEO Tim Cook likes to say tablets -- not laptops -- are the future of computing, yet it feels like Apple's software goes out of its way to limit what you can do on the machine.
Meanwhile there are others, especially Samsung, that appear to be innovating at a pace faster than Apple can.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steve Kovach.
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Tim Cook is wrong, the future of computing is... SMARTPHONES!
Good Find. Apple has been stuck on its original mentality and although it innovated a huge field, they have definitely stagnated
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Apple? Sounds familiar is that the company that made that funny square phone with non movable icons back in 1999 ??
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Yeah, the company that makes phones for senior citizens.
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
Kremata said:
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
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Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
jinosong said:
Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
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Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
Kremata said:
Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
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I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
jinosong said:
I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
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Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
drakester09 said:
Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
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Personally I'm a fan of Android but not necessarily Samsung. Now I'm with Samsung because they have the most powerful phone but if later on HTC or other come up with a better one I will go with them. Frankly I hate Samsung's interface. I find the green toggles and the grey sms box so ugly. But I love S-Voice. I hope they will improve their UI in the future. In the mean time I will keep flashing ROM to my liking.