Good day every one
Really long time ago I had an idea! But few other people had the same idea Other projects use WIFI for a connection but I am talking about actual cellular network (GSM).
The idea is: add a feature to an open source cell phone to be able to make calls without a network provider. The design will look like a computer mesh network.
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Think of every cellphone like a Cisco network router with dynamic routing enabled.
Each phone will be aware of the presence of other phones and will have route table to every single one. There is no centralized server sort of like peer to peer.
When a user wants to make a call, then the cellphone will display the devices that are online and can be reached.
Look at the picture above and notice that there are more than one route to each device. Having many phones like that will increase the coverage!
Now does anyone know how to implement a such thing?
Maybe use android phones? Since OS is open source maybe it is possible to add this into it?
What do you think?
Reading materials:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/technology/mesh/7.0/design/guide/MeshAP_70.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking
http://www.opencellphone.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://ipod-iphone.blogspot.com/2008/07/neo-freerunner.html
http://www.physorg.com/news198298057.html
http://www.servalproject.org/
http://bigthink.com/ideas/26480
http://www.freekorea.us/2011/02/20/...y-to-bring-cell-phone-service-to-north-korea/
http://www.psfk.com/2010/07/cell_phone_network_that_doesnt_need_towers.html
I dont think its practically feasible..
And moreover You cant use Service Provider's cellular network just like that ( and that also free)
man u realy want to learn how cdma, gsm,edge,2-4.5 g networkz work. and whatz a mobile handset realy do when its connected to a network.
send from my hd2 @ dorimanx v.3.0.0.rom,with 2way rec kernal.
I think Serval Mesh is what you want
EDIT : oups, already in your list...
amritpal2489 said:
You cant use Service Provider's cellular network just like that ( and that also free)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The idea here is to create an independant cellular network, using only the GSM equipment of phones, without using the service provider network.
sounds like a great idea, i would want something like this for sure. but the only down side is that you could only make a call for as far as the network broad casts which means in a small town it would really suck.
Nice idea but very costly.
Sent from my Galaxy Ace using Tapatalk
That's an interesting concept, but from what I understand, to make a call without an operator, both phones will have to be connected to the mesh network, right?
That situation would be rather rare, it's like making a video call between two iPod touch (that don't have a cellular network). If the other side is not connected to WiFi at the moment, the call won't go through.
Also something to think about is the battery life. If other people's calls would be routed through your phone all the time, it would drain the battery very fast.
The unfortunate bit to this idea is that, barring hardware,privacy, and feasibility constraints...If you implemented such a network, there would be no guarantee that you would be within the bounds of the network at any time. With current providers, there are rough estimates as to the coverage area that are fairly accurate, depending on exact conditions.
With this system, if a couple people in your neighborhood leave the town or country, suddenly, you have no service, or slow service.
It'd just fluctuate too much and wouldn't be reliable.
Phones hardware and closed-source software isn't designed to ad-hoc networking. IMO the closest available solution for that is this:
http://openbsc.osmocom.org/trac/
It is definitely an interesting idea, sorta makes me thing of "Ad-Hoc Networking for Phones". The only problem is, the phones would be limited to calls in their "network", so if you had 3 people in a desert, they could call each-other, but would be otherwise sunk
The problem though lies in that it would basically use your phone to power everyone else's phone service, and that would mean that your precious phone would be crunching data all day long, and eating batteries like they are going out of style (Not that it doesn't already).
So while in-theory you could get cellphones to all link up in a row and make a cell-to-cell network, latency would increase exponentially the more phones you have to "hop", and battery life would decrease.
Good thinking, but you would be better off starting your own cell network, and not charge outrageous prices. I am sure that we would all be happy to switch if you had good coverage and reasonable service
Nice idea hoping network providers would agree to implement such network feature.
But on the other side, it's far way impossible. For sure network providers would not allow that because it's some sort of a hacking over there frequency.
Not like Walkie-Talkies or CB Radios (Civilian Band Radios) where they operate at there own frequency with there own cell site for CB Radios.
I think the only way to make it possible is to hack the phones frequency and make it adjustable and add a unique ID for each phone. i.e. just like how the SIM Cards work. Once the frequency is hacked, then it is possible to control the transmitter.
Anyway, this is just my own IDEA, correct me if im wrong.
Nice idea,
How about openBTS ..? openbts,sourceforge,net
what different..?
I really have been thinking anout the same thing.somehow its gonna crack.
neat idea. although i agree with above posts,
battery would be an issue.
what if someones phone dies?
also, i see privacy being an issue. sure you could encrypt the call or text, but you would have direct access to every device in between point a and b. what would stop some smart guy from finding a way to invade your device. or write some malware that would run across the mesh. maybe i don't understand mesh networks well but it seems like a concern that would be valid.
biggest issue i can see is reliability. there are way to many variables for this to work out of heavily populated areas.
some kind of closed demonstration would be cool though
The problem with this is the modem/radio firmware is closed. It would be totally possible if we can get proper source for the modem/radio for each targeted device.
The battery drain would be tremendous. however this may be implemented in the form of an app or a function in android which can be switched off when not needed. This would also address the network congestion issues in crowded places. The more handsets the better.
It's an interesting idea, but has limits
If we thought about creating a new phone for this new network so that we weren't restricted by current cellular standards or architecture, it could be a good idea. The number of clients that the network could support via RF would be limited, however, because of the amount of signalling necessary between peers in a P2P environment and the fact that RF is broadcast, not point-to-point. Therefore, in order for peers to be able to hear each other over a reasonable distance, there would need to be a limit on the density of the mesh's population. In the current cellular topology, this limit is quite high because each handset only needs to communicate with one tower at any one time. In a mesh topology, each handset would have to communicate with a bunch of others in order to maintain the mesh and do the work of moving data through it.
So, this sort of topology is well-suited for low-density environments, but not so low-density that a handset can't communicate with at least a couple of other handsets. Also, at least one of the handsets would need to be able to communicate with a base station so that the whole mesh has access to the global comms network.
It's possible.. but impractical in a few cases.
I could understand in a densely populated city.
But what would the effects have on the radio usage?
"there by also the effects on battery life"
You'll find a nice video introduction into creating your own GSM network when Googling "CCC gsm network" and look at the 3rd link (I'm not allowed to post outside links). This should allow you to understand some of the GSM related technical terms on the OpenBSC page. I'm not sure if the guys from the video are the same people running OpenBSC.
I think that VoIP would be more interesting for you. Since it's really easy (NAT-ing can be nasty if you use multiple clients) to implement and you can use it over WiFi (generally internet).
So you could install a VoIP server at home accepting phone calls and forward the calls first to your mobile phone via WiFi when the phone is connected to your WiFi, otherwise the call can be forwarded via WiFi. You should even be able to use your VoIP Server at home to forward a call from your mobile phone over the internet to another phone number.
I think this is one of those pie in the sky ideas. While it sounds great there are some huge challenges. First and foremost the radio in your cell phone is locked down and you don't have the access that you need to be able to do that. The second issue is security. Routing voice would be fine but routing data, you pretty much have the worlds easiest man in the middle attack. The third issue is spectrum. Cell phones use RF spectrum that is bought and paid for, as in we can't use it otherwise the FCC could fine us lots and lots of cash money. And like others have said battery life would be awful.
I think there is a potential solution here though. Purpose built hardware. I know that some of the Ham bands are pretty close to the cell phone bands (close enough to work with cell phones). We could design a piece of hardware to act as a tower and we could start our own network. Using the internet as a backbone.
Related
I was using my phone on my wifi connection earlier today, and I noticed in the Networks dialog there's a bunch of wifi connections already there (but I've not used the phone in town, and I've never even seen some of these wifi hotspot names before), so that got me thinking...
... Does the fact that I'm subscribed to Web 'n Walk as part of my tariff mean that I also have free access to any of the hotspots predefined in the list on my wifi networks screen?
Here's the full list:
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Anybody have the faintest clue as to why these are already in my wifi networks list?
Yeah, I've got an idea. It's 2nd hand or ex-display. considering no-one else has reported having these hot-spots pre-configured on their Vario2s, it seems logical or at least likely that the device has been used before.
i.e. returned under the 14 day guarantee that if not satisfied with the product, they'll take it back and squash the contract. look under 'device information' and then call duration. If the call duration exceeds your actual usage, then that prooves it. If however it matches your call usage (see you call history), then maybe just maybe, T-Mobile have introduced this to their extended ROM in newer devices, but I doubt it.
All calls: 27min, 30sec.
This about tallies with the amount of calls I've made (mainly to customer services to get stuff like HSDPA set up) and a query about my account, plus a call to my Dad and a couple of mates...
I did notice during the customisation process that there was a cab containing 'June 2006' in its filename... Here's my ROM and hw stats:
ROM: 1.21.110.3
ROM date: 06/19/06
Radio: 1.05.05.00
Protocol ver: 32.36.7010.04H
My boot screen shows (in red)
M05
S04
B06
D1.21
at the lower left of the screen, and then my Radio and ROM versions show up fleetingly before the device shows the Windows Mobile splash screen. The device also had its protective screen cover on, which I had to peel off - and didn't look like the screen had been touched or used. Of course, they could clean it...
... I don't think this was a refurb though. Course, I could be wrong. I suppose I'll have to go find a wifi hotspot, or maybe ring up T-Mobile cust. services and ask :/
My Vario II also has lots of preconfigured wifi networks on it.
When I received the phone I did check the calls in/out and they were both 0 mins and the phone was immaculate (no scratches, fingerprints etc..) so I would be surprised if it was a return.
I have no idea if these wifi settings relate to free hotspots though or whether you would still have to buy a wifi key if you happened to be in range of one of them. I will give it a go next time I am in a larger town, where I live I don't think there are any public wifi hotspots.
I'm in Brum, so I'll go check it out (there's a T-Mobile hotspot in the bar just outside my uni building, which is actually a student bar too, so I'll have just go and have a couple of pints and investimagate
yeah, mine had all those preconfigured too. think it's standard.
christopherwoods said:
All calls: 27min, 30sec.
This about tallies with the amount of calls I've made (mainly to customer services to get stuff like HSDPA set up) and a query about my account, plus a call to my Dad and a couple of mates...
I did notice during the customisation process that there was a cab containing 'June 2006' in its filename... Here's my ROM and hw stats:
ROM: 1.21.110.3
ROM date: 06/19/06
Radio: 1.05.05.00
Protocol ver: 32.36.7010.04H
My boot screen shows (in red)
M05
S04
B06
D1.21
at the lower left of the screen, and then my Radio and ROM versions show up fleetingly before the device shows the Windows Mobile splash screen. The device also had its protective screen cover on, which I had to peel off - and didn't look like the screen had been touched or used. Of course, they could clean it...
... I don't think this was a refurb though. Course, I could be wrong. I suppose I'll have to go find a wifi hotspot, or maybe ring up T-Mobile cust. services and ask :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Very interesting indeed. I'm glad to be wrong. I wonder what else you and the other guys have in your extended ROMs as this does indeed seem to be a part of Your ROM. Please let us know how you got on with the Hotspots investigation and beers.
My Vario2 came pre-loaded with eleventy million different wi-fi profiles and wondered about free hot-spot access myself but when I tried to access the hot spot at my local Starbucks it still asked me for a log on I'd & password - I tried the log on I have for My T-Mobile but it came back as invalid. My guess is you have to subscribe to hot spot access seperately.
I just noticed in my Programs list I have an Interactive menu (with the T Mobile logo superimposed over a picture of a SIM card)... Clicking it goes into an app called 'STK Service', which gives me an interactive menu.
I have the usual, Fun, Info, Music, Chat, Sports, Games, Text plus, Groups, Voicemail, t-zones (oh aye?) and Prepay topup...
So I click on t-zones, it shows a white screen with the text 't-zones' on it, and the soft keys turn into Yes and No. I click Yes, and it opens IE with a weird URL (all boxes, so in a character set I can't discern), then WM5 shows a dialog box with "Cannot connect with current connection settings. TO change your connection settings, tap Settings."
The plot thickens...
I have all of those access points as well. And mine is a brand new Vario II.
I emailed T-Mobile a while back asking this, and the other week I got a response:
Ross @ T-Mobile said:
Hi Christopher,
Thank you for your email about Wifi on your MDA.
The profiles on you phone are mostly T-Mobile related, there are some which are for T-Mobile in other countries, BT is also there as we have an agreement with them. The others are just large Wifi providers.
They are put on the phone just to make it easier for you to connect to them. They are not essential in any way to making your phone work and if you want to delete them it will not cause any problems.
I hope this answers your question, if you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Kind regards
RossT-Mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a bit of preferential configuration on their part Only takes a minute to remove though, so it's ok.
I have the exact same pre-configured Wifi profiles on mine. I just deleted them.
me2
Yeah, I got a response a while back from T-Mobile - they are purely 'to help you connect to one of our hotspots more easily' for want of a better way of putting it.
I did a more custom install this time round when I got my replacement Hermes, and didn't install the CAB which sets up the access point SSIDs in the Wifi Network profiles... They now don't appear.
The TM rep confirmed that I didn't have access to the networks, they were just there as, effectively, shortcuts.
Not true
mackaby007 said:
Yeah, I've got an idea. It's 2nd hand or ex-display. considering no-one else has reported having these hot-spots pre-configured on their Vario2s, it seems logical or at least likely that the device has been used before.
i.e. returned under the 14 day guarantee that if not satisfied with the product, they'll take it back and squash the contract. look under 'device information' and then call duration. If the call duration exceeds your actual usage, then that prooves it. If however it matches your call usage (see you call history), then maybe just maybe, T-Mobile have introduced this to their extended ROM in newer devices, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine was brand new and sealed and came like this. There is another thread about it somewhere as I remember seeing it - it definately doesn;t mean it isn't new.
Totally brand-new Vario - and these (useful) profiles were included.
If you use BT's Total Broadband package (as I do) then you will have 500 free OpenZone minutes to use every month (something they do not advertise very much).
mackaby007 said:
Yeah, I've got an idea. It's 2nd hand or ex-display. considering no-one else has reported having these hot-spots pre-configured on their Vario2s, it seems logical or at least likely that the device has been used before.
i.e. returned under the 14 day guarantee that if not satisfied with the product, they'll take it back and squash the contract. look under 'device information' and then call duration. If the call duration exceeds your actual usage, then that prooves it. If however it matches your call usage (see you call history), then maybe just maybe, T-Mobile have introduced this to their extended ROM in newer devices, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's so not true. I broke the security seal on the package. There was not a single finger mark or anything, you don't need to be a genius to tell if a phone is ex-display or 2nd hand.
So Google is currently offering a beta version of the GPS Emulation software in the latest Google maps. My problem is that I can't get it to work with my Sprint Touch (Vogue), I keep getting a "Your location is currently unavailable" message. A co-worker of mine is able to get the My Location feature to work on his Blackberry. I was wondering if sprint is blocking this part of the software. Any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Edit: Yeah sorry my location is Chicago, IL and my carrier is Sprint. Apparently it works on the regular touch so maybe a different ROM would fix it. According to Google the reason My location isn't working is because "The device is not reporting a cell". Now I haven't got a clue what that means, so if someone more knowledgeable has any idea any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jack Everyman said:
So Google is currently offering a beta version of the GPS Emulation software in the latest Google maps. My problem is that I can't get it to work with my Sprint Touch (Vogue), I keep getting a "Your location is currently unavailable" message. A co-worker of mine is able to get the My Location feature to work on his Blackberry. I was wondering if sprint is blocking this part of the software. Any insight into this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hasn't worked for me either in the Baltimore <-> DC area. I'm assuming Sprint is blocking it.
If you do get it working report your general area and cell provider.
The GPS feature of the Sprint Touch has not been activated yet, offcially.
Unless I am misunderstanding your questions... It won't work until GPS is turned on...
Insoc said:
The GPS feature of the Sprint Touch has not been activated yet, offcially.
Unless I am misunderstanding your questions... It won't work until GPS is turned on...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This services uses Cell Tower Triangulation when GPS is not available...SO it should still work
As well sprint does list the Touch as one of the phones that works with their Family Locator software. So...
I was wrong...
http://informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/11/google_talks_up.html
Sorry, I was wrong about the GPS comment...
I'm on Bell in Canada, the GPS locating didn't work for me but I did get an automated call from Bell the other day welcoming me to their service, the message also mentioned that my "phone has a global positioning chip that will help locate you in a case of emergency"
So we need to figure out how to unlock GPS. I heard Sprint will be providing an update that unlocks it sometime soon, but that doesn't help me
I have a Htc Touch with Telus, and because GPS is disable for now, I was able to configure a External gps receiver with Google Maps mobile. Works very good.
Google Maps
The locator in Google maps doesnt have anything to do with GPS. I have sprint with the touch in Utah and mine doesnt work either.
The google maps locator is based on cellphone tower triangulation and it seems to be not compatible with sprint at this time. I 'think' microsoft is working on this with sprint for live search too ... someone in livesearch told me the other day "I can't tell you what we're working on but we've got more new things coming (for livesearch)" when I mentioned it.
..cont
It's a nifty idea and free but it's not all that accurate... like a few blocks to a mile or more.
I don't know about you but when I'm in my car I can usually tell you where I am within a mile or so without the help of a satellite or other electronic devices.
If the live search rumor is true that is great, but my interest in this is not to know where I am, but to know what is around me.
I don't this this technology will work with Sprint or Verizon because of the way CDMA works. Maybe in the future but not now.
Here's the article that said it was coming on Live Search/Sprint
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/09/18/sprint-microsoft-roll-out-location-based-live-search/
Sprint, Microsoft roll out location-based Live Search
Posted Sep 18th 2007 12:02PM by Donald Melanson
Filed under: Software, Sprint
It looks like Sprint users now have a few more search options at their disposal, with the carrier and Microsoft announcing today that Live Search will now automatically take the users' location into consideration. Apparently, the service makes use of cell-tower triangulation, and not GPS, to determine the users location, making it somewhat less accurate but far more widely available. What's more, the pair also announced a new voice search feature that'll work with five of Sprint's high end phones, including the Samsung a900 and a920, the Motorola Razr, the Sanyo 840 and the LG 550. As you can probably guess, it will let you speak search terms instead of typing them in, with it also giving you the option to press a button to call the business you're searching for. While Sprint is getting all Microsoft's attention at the moment, the company is quick to point out that the service is not exclusive, and "could become available via other operators in the future."
...more
note reference to GPS and 2008 update
https://shopbiz.sprint.com/popup_product2.php?phone_id=MP6900SP&bundleID=2256
http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/rumors/sprint_to_finally_switch_on_gp.html
I'm on Bell Mobility in Ottawa, Canada (Village of Carp) and "Your current location is temporarily unavailable" shows up for me too. I have the Vogue and blazing 1 Mbps speed. I'm opening up Google Maps every time I go out and hit 0 trying to get the towers more input. What is the word on Bell and Google Maps, am I doing this for nothing? Greater Ottawa has a population of 1 million, is Canada's capital and, therefore, should be a large dot! Mind you, best we stay hidden from nukes I guess....
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I am in the GHBOA - Greater Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville Area (anyone who lives here will think that’s funny) and also on Bell Mobility and I am getting the same “Your current location is temporarily unavailable” message.
I double-checked to make sure that my location service was turned on. My understanding from what I have read is that Google Maps will:
A) Use true GPS if present and show a blue dot to represent approximate location.
B) Fall back to tower triangulation if GPS is not available and show a blue dot with a light blue “halo” around it to represent approximate location.
On top of that I think we have also established in another tread on this board that the Vogue does indeed have a true GPS receiver inside but we are waiting in a firmware upgrade to enable it. In the meantime however the approximate location service using tower triangulation should work.
Perhaps GSM and CDMA networks report tower triangulation information differently and perhaps Google Maps only knows how to use the GSM info??? I have no idea if that makes sense but we CDMA folks do seem to get the short end of the stick a lot
I have a crazy idea that I want to “air” here and see what others think. Could it be that the Google Maps “My Location” feature doesn’t work on the Vogue because the Vogue has a real GPS receiver that is currently disabled?
I am thinking this because I did the following:
Start > Settings > System > External GPS > Access
There I disabled the “Manage GPS automatically”. This feature apparently gives Windows control of the GPS receiver and Windows marshals which programs can access it.
I then reset Google Maps and tried “Menu > Use GPS”. This resulted in “Initializing GPS” for a few minutes after which I got a message saying my GPS receiver wasn’t responding.
However I then went back into Start > Settings > System > External GPS > Access and re-enabled the “Manage GPS automatically” feature. I then went back into Google Maps (after resetting it again) and tried “Menu > Use GPS”. This time it resulted in a “Seeking GPS satellites (0)” message that never seemed to stop and never reported an error message.
So, my thinking is that perhaps Google Maps knows there is a physical GPS receiver in the Vogue and is trying to talk to it indefinitely and as a result is not falling back to tower-triangulation mode. Because the GPS is present but not enabled in the firmware Google Maps knows it is there but isn’t getting the appropriate response that would cause it to give up on GPS and switch to “tower” mode.
Just a thought... Does this sound reasonable to anyone?
That's exactly what I observed and thought as well, but people tell me I need more cell users to use GMaps for tower input. I'm beginning to think that's not the case, too many other reports of "unavailable" in highly populated areas. The Vogue just CAN'T do it on Bell CDMA. Has there been ANY positive reports with this box and CDMA? Nope...
touchbell said:
That's exactly what I observed and thought as well, but people tell me I need more cell users to use GMaps for tower input. I'm beginning to think that's not the case, too many other reports of "unavailable" in highly populated areas. The Vogue just CAN'T do it on Bell CDMA. Has there been ANY positive reports with this box and CDMA? Nope...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we may just have to wait for that firmware upgrade that’s supposed to enable EVDO Rev A as well as the GPS.
At least this confirms that Google Maps behavior is modified by the GPS settings in Windows. It apparently “thinks” it is talking to a GPS receiver when you enable it on the Windows side. Assuming my theory is right maybe Google will come up with an update that lets the user specify to use tower-triangulation all the time regardless of the presence of a GPS or not.
Is this possible, I have been able to find some code here and there about obtaining the call id in windows mobile but nothing about getting multipul values. I found this line on wikipedia
"Interestingly, all the present GSM modem/mobiles (Telit, SIMCOM, HTC, Nokia etc) are coming with some extra feature to monitor the neighboring cells and its RSSI value. Theoretically you should get 1+6=7 cell information(1 home cell ID, 7 BCCH info+ 7 RSSI). If you can prepare the database of GPS location of the 7 cells, it is not impossible to locate your location with very high accuracy (<100 mtr)."
If I could do this then the application I am currently creating would become much more appealing.
any help is greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the bump just very interested if anyone has any experience in this?
I was looking into CellID information not too long ago, and as far as I understand, WinMo doesn't have any available APIs to get information for the other 6 towers... Most likely it has that information for the OS use only, but it doesn't look like there's any ways to pull it out of there....
Thanks for the reply I really appreciate it. Not being able to obtain that information is very annoying imagine having relatively accurate location without GPS. oh well maybe they will release this soon.
A Windows Mobile app for location tracking in a route without GPS and internet
Where am I (Wami) is a Windows Mobile application suite that tells you where you are in the middle of a trip, without GPS and without connecting to the internet, using cell broadcast and cell tower information and a pre-recorded route file instead. It works by recording cell broadcast and tower information along a route into a route file and then using the current cell broadcast/tower information to index into the route file and find out the relative location within the route.
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/wami.aspx
VirtualGPS Lite 1.45 - is a free, small utility, which fully emulates GPS module and returns your location (by using cellular towers and wi-fi hotspots). Accuracy of coordinates is about 50-500m.
http://www.kamlex.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=30
This does work with TomTom emulating built in GPS on my htc prophet but not accurately
wapvirus said:
Where am I (Wami) is a Windows Mobile application suite that tells you where you are in the middle of a trip, without GPS and without connecting to the internet, using cell broadcast and cell tower information and a pre-recorded route file instead. It works by recording cell broadcast and tower information along a route into a route file and then using the current cell broadcast/tower information to index into the route file and find out the relative location within the route.
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/wami.aspx
VirtualGPS Lite 1.45 - is a free, small utility, which fully emulates GPS module and returns your location (by using cellular towers and wi-fi hotspots). Accuracy of coordinates is about 50-500m.
http://www.kamlex.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=30
This does work with TomTom emulating built in GPS on my htc prophet but not accurately
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Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for this information. annoyingly the first would not suit my project and the second sounds very interesting but there is no way to know how the developer gets their position from the cellId, they state that the accuracy is between 50-500m which if true is far superior to simply checking cell Id as i though that could be as far out as 3km .
If anyone does know or can think of a way to improve accuracy when not using gps I would be very interested to hear from them.
all the current technologies seem to need the participation of the network. I guess if you cannot access multiple cell Id's you wont be able to tell your phone to connect to a different cell tower. I wonder if there is any way of accessing the cell id of different operators cell towers, for example when you search for a gsm connection it will find all that are available, surely at this point your phone is querying all the towers.
in the software described it says that you can also estimate location based on ip's I thought they wouldnt be very accurate, also wouldn't you have to get a connection to work out the ip anyway and most wifi networks are password protected.
*edit* Also does any one know the answer to this? how does google maps give an aproximation value e.g. you are here within XXmeters are there any examples of people being able to retrieve this data along with the central position?
all the current technologies seem to need the participation of the network. I guess if you cannot access multiple cell Id's you wont be able to tell your phone to connect to a different cell tower. I wonder if there is any way of accessing the cell id of different operators cell towers, for example when you search for a gsm connection it will find all that are available, surely at this point your phone is querying all the towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tested the virtual GPS the figures they quote are few and far between using cell id alone i would say a good 1/4 mile off they must use the same info as Google maps because my position was the same in goggle maps as in tomtom using virtual gps
wapvirus said:
Have you tested the virtual GPS the figures they quote are few and far between using cell id alone i would say a good 1/4 mile off they must use the same info as Google maps because my position was the same in goggle maps as in tomtom using virtual gps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I didn't use the software because I have built in gps and didn't want it to change any settings. so your saying its likely cell id alone? I supose that he may be right saying that it is usually 50-500meters out that seems to be consistent with the values i have obtained from google maps although they do always give a much larger error margin then that. for example where I am right now I would say the location is 100meters wrong but says it is accurate to 1.7km
I wonder if I could create a method that would tell my phone to try to connect to all other networks but my own to obtain their cell id and after getting all available return to my own network, if it is a quick process then it may be worth looking into. I think unless anyone has a different idea I might investigate along this path.
my phone can switch gsm test mode by typing *#*#364#*#* in to the keypad
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This needs to be enabled in the registry
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\EngineerMode]
"BuildInEngineeringModeApp"=dword:00000001
"LaunchEngineerModeAppDialStr"="*#*#364#*#*"
could this be of use ??
wapvirus said:
my phone can switch gsm test mode by typing *#*#364#*#* in to the keypad
This needs to be enabled in the registry
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\EngineerMode]
"BuildInEngineeringModeApp"=dword:00000001
"LaunchEngineerModeAppDialStr"="*#*#364#*#*"
could this be of use ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure but it does look very interesting, seeing as it is an embedded htc app maybe there will be someway of obtaining multiple cell id through a similar hidden menu. also I noticed some other interesting fields like TA which I believe is used by operators to increase positioning. Thanks for showing me this.
badasschris said:
If anyone does know or can think of a way to improve accuracy when not using gps I would be very interested to hear from them.
*edit* Also does any one know the answer to this? how does google maps give an aproximation value e.g. you are here within XXmeters are there any examples of people being able to retrieve this data along with the central position?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can think of a few ways of improving accuracy by using just one cell tower information. First of all, you can be watching current cellID, and as soon as it switches, you can calculate location of old cellID and new one, and approximate the location based on that. Second option would be to also check for signal strength. The lower the strength, the further you are away from the tower.
You could also try to use WiFi as well for triangulation. There are huge databases of WiFi MAC addresses on the Internet (not sure if any of them are free, though), and by getting MAC address of the wireless router, you can get an approximate position of your receiver. To get MAC address, you don't have to connect to the network, it could be protected.
You can get central position of the tower by using undocumented Google API, or OpenCellID database. You can find an example of using Google API on codeproject (don't have an address right now, sorry).
hobbbbit said:
I can think of a few ways of improving accuracy by using just one cell tower information. First of all, you can be watching current cellID, and as soon as it switches, you can calculate location of old cellID and new one, and approximate the location based on that. Second option would be to also check for signal strength. The lower the strength, the further you are away from the tower.
You could also try to use WiFi as well for triangulation. There are huge databases of WiFi MAC addresses on the Internet (not sure if any of them are free, though), and by getting MAC address of the wireless router, you can get an approximate position of your receiver. To get MAC address, you don't have to connect to the network, it could be protected.
You can get central position of the tower by using undocumented Google API, or OpenCellID database. You can find an example of using Google API on codeproject (don't have an address right now, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi hobbbbit
I like the way you think, I came up with the first idea you had but realised it wasn't suitable for my project as I want to be able to obtain a location at any time but I may not be continually checking location. When I first saw people talking about wifi tracking I assumed they would only be able to get a very rough estimate based on the IP address looking into it more I see it should give an accuracy of at least 200m which is ideal for my purpose. The only real solution I can currently find is using skyhooks api
this article http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/WiMoWifiPosition.aspx looks very helpful. I have noticed that google also seems to use wifi location in a few of its products but couldn't find any information of making use of their database.
Hi badasschris
I m a final year engineering student.As a final year project m working on location based services in GSM mobile phones. I m planning to use cell id and signal strength to obtain approximate location.Can you suggest me a way to improve the efficiency of the algorithm.
Right. You might remember I had connection issues with the HD2. I sent it off for repair, and it came back, but now displaying "3G+" at the top. This was super fast and everything was working fine. Now, all of a sudden it has gone back to 3G that is REALLY slow! Now, I see other people are having this problem. According to Vodafone, I am in a 3G blackspot and there is nothing I can do. If this was the case, I would never receive 3G+ in the first place, which they just ignore when I ask them about it. Could it possibly be the phone? I personally think Vodafone are just messing me around
Only 1 view? Any reply would be appreciated, this is an ongoing problem for me...
Edited : Was being a fool
Just because people look at it it doesn't mean they are going to have an answer i have seen some threads on here go unanswered for the best part of the day until someone comes on-line that actually has an answer, so just give it time, not every member knows what everybody else knows, that's why its a forum for people to club together and help each other out.
rant over
Oh ok, I'm sorry
Ok, so now Vodafone are ignoring me, which is just great (pfft). I would appreciate ANY help if there are any tips as to any procedures I could undertake. The HSDPA I was receiving just cut out the other night, and won't budge from 3G any more, not even to G or E, which is kinda annoying.
Have you tried it in a different area? You'll not get HSDPA coverage everywhere - that's normal. The way you're talking, seems like you're just sitting in your house testing it.
Of course I've tested it elsewhere. What you need to understand is though, I was receiving HSDPA full in my house for a good few days after I got the phone back from repair, now its just gone. All of a sudden, gone. I try doing the network selection process again, and the 3G+ flickers for a millisecond at the most, and then disappears. I don't know why this is happening, I used to get brilliant HSDPA connection wherever I went in Preston
Just to give you guys a glimpse of EXACTLY how bad the connection is, I ran a speed test on my phone via speedtest.net. Here are the results:
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There is DEFINITELY something wrong here, but what could it be?
Faz20 said:
Just to give you guys a glimpse of EXACTLY how bad the connection is, I ran a speed test on my phone via speedtest.net. Here are the results:
There is DEFINITELY something wrong here, but what could it be?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is wrong? that you're getting as-expected 3G speed (.38mbps is the equivalent of 384kbps 3G standard) or the fact that you're getting a 3G+ symbol but are only getting 3G speed? Just because it's showing 3G+ (im assuming that it's similar to HSPA) doesnt mean you're at the optimal cell distance to receive it. It may be VERY POOR in your case, so it bounce you down to 3G.
That's the thing, its not poor in my area. I mean, I don't think even standard 3G is as slow as I'm experiencing. A 12 second YouTube video taking a minute to buffer? www.google.com taking a LONG time to load, there's something wrong man. I feel like just selling this phone and getting a BB or something, I know the connectivity will be strong with that.
Faz20 said:
That's the thing, its not poor in my area. I mean, I don't think even standard 3G is as slow as I'm experiencing. A 12 second YouTube video taking a minute to buffer? www.google.com taking a LONG time to load, there's something wrong man. I feel like just selling this phone and getting a BB or something, I know the connectivity will be strong with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you verify? Do you have another vodafone nearby that you can test out?
That's the annoying thing, I can't test out my SIM in another smartphone, as this is the only one I have. I have however tried another SIM in my phone and there is the same problem. This is the reply I get from Vodafone eForum:
Hi Faz20,
If it was a site fault that was to blame for this before, then it's highly likely to be the same sort of problem again. Issues like this are rarely ever the fault of the handset.
I have checked the postcode listed in your profile, and can see there are three possible HSDPA sites around you, none of which are showing any open faults at this moment, so we'll need to raise a case to our Faults Team for this to be investigated further.
I've emailed you so that we can start this process off
Jon
eForum Team
What is annoying me is that they keep ignoring me when I say I was experiencing fine internet connection with smooth speeds, and it just suddenly cut out. They just change the subject ALL the time when I mention it :angry:
One more to remember: you have to consider the speed AND QoS as well.
Try another site, I'd google for visualvare my speed.
If you have poor quality of service (you have veeeery long ping) that means: your phone tries to download.. then waits.. then tries again.. and some packets are lost.... so tries again... and so on.
1699ms ping is quite a lot I imagine? As my puter is only like 0.6ms, but surely the phone can't have that big a difference. Is there anything I could do to lower the ping, I don't want to flash and cooked ROM's atm as I am very inexperienced and don't want to void the warranty.
Faz20 said:
1699ms ping is quite a lot I imagine? As my puter is only like 0.6ms, but surely the phone can't have that big a difference. Is there anything I could do to lower the ping, I don't want to flash and cooked ROM's atm as I am very inexperienced and don't want to void the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you're simply in a 3G blackspot. I know it's disheartening for having an HD2 and stuck with ****ty data coverage, but that's what seem to be the problem right now. You have a seriously high ping coupled that with slow transfer speed would only dictate that you're not in an ideal area where 3G coverage is plentiful.
How would that explain that I was receiving fine connection speeds before? This is where my hair is falling out
Faz20 said:
How would that explain that I was receiving fine connection speeds before? This is where my hair is falling out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you're hallucinating that you had fast connection before? Maybe Vodafone thought that your area doesn't deserve the bandwidth and thus prioritizing the 3G speed for other, more robust, cities? Or maybe radioactive termites have run amok on the cell tower, causing you to not get fast 3G speed?
Who knows...
Nah, I can assure you I wasn't hallucinating, I stay away from the Magic Mushrooms
I just think Vodafone are a bag of s*it. All my friends with the same phone on O2, Orange are receiving HSDPA all the time. Its stupid
I'm gonna phone up Vodafone today and kinda go mad at them. The last time I phone they "escalated" the connection, maybe the reason why I was getting HSDPA all the time, wherever I went. Now suddenly its gone again. Quick question for you guys, when your phone is on 3G Full bars, how is the speeds. Are they quick and rapid? Do Internet pages load quickly? etc. etc.
Ok, so what do I get told when I ring up Vodafone. I have bad 3G coverage in my area (blatant lie). When I ask how do I resolve this? Buy Vodafone Sure Signal, £50 one off payment or £5 a month. Great way to resolve a problem, try to sell me something else, another one of Vodafone's probably bullsh*t products. Its so frustrating, having to live with a stupid network provider with such a beautiful phone!
Can I cry on someone's shoulder?
OK I am giving up. My first ever complain thread related to any phone I ever owned.
The 3g/4g reception on SGS2 - am I the only one with a not acceptable reception on AT&T in the States, New York City in particular?
I used to have the Captivate, and at work I would always get bad reception: it would show a bar or two or 3, but it would ALWAYS stick with that and stay on the data network. So basically speed would go down, but the connection would still be present, if I am downloading something.
My Captivate was stolen. So a month or two later I buy the SGS2.
It seems the same at first - not ideal data connection.
But now I am noticing a very annoying thing. The phone would constantly switch like crazy between E, 3G, H, H+, and would sometimes DROP data connection altogether. When it drops the connection I have to either reboot it, and it comes back on H+, or I have to put it on the window sill where the signal is better, and then the signal will get reacquired in about 5-10 minutes (not immediately).
What is wrong?
I have the latest firmware from last night (the problem existed before too).
The phone is not rooted, and has minimal apps installed. Only gmail is set to push, plus the default widgets. I did try factory reset 2 days ago.
I'm not certain with this phone but I have owned several that once they lose the data connection and cant find it for a set time they stop looking for a period of time before recommencing a new search. This to save battery. While it doesnt speak to your problem directly I live in a low signal 3g area and I actually get better speed by switching to edge only than I do on 3g and without the hassle of it constantly losing its signal and then switching to edge, back to 3g, etc. Another thought is that it does not have to be your phone, it could be a tower issue.
its possible that since the SGS2 antenna is located on the bottom back left of the device, this time you are experiencing worse signal attenuation from your hand blocking the antenna. have you tried sitting the phone on the desk or table and see if it is any more stable? if so then you may have to learn to hold the phone with the antenna exposed away from your hand.
if none of that works, then i dunno...
I am ALWAYS placing the phone on wooden desk when I test connectivity
I agree that it may be disconnecting and waiting for longer time , to save time, I am just curious why my old Captivate did not do the same thing and worked my better in terms of reception.
I ALWAYS could rely on 3g on the Captivate.
Now with my SGS2 on my desk, I look at it and it shows no data, and the emails are not synched, etc.
Extremely annoying.
ok so now i noticed more people are facing this problem. i am wondering if this is a hardware or software fault.
look at my post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1073958
regards,
Same here....Data network absolutely is rubbish and I live in the middle of a large City!!
I get disconnections, slow or broken downloads, network errors and constantly changing from H, 3G, E, G. Seriously its like going back to WAP! its unusable i cant even check e-mail reliably unless im on WiFI thank good im on BT broadnband with its FON & Hotspots.
I.m on Orange in the uK, Ive flashed to KE1 but not KE2 because that has problems with Orange...grrrrr I was on O2 before on an iphone at it was reliable at least. I am just going to put mu orange Sim in my ipone to see how it goes......
Spoiling the love of this otherwise fabulous phone.
Hmm it's odd
my phone isn't connecting to the data service either. Are you on medianet or smartphone plan? Also one of my co-worker's iphone isn't connecting either but another one did barely hitting 1mbit. Anyone else from nyc having issues with data service?
I just rebooted my phone for the first time ever and it's showing servers in kansas as the closest server for speedtest.
I'm in NYC and have had not so ideal connections the past couple days. It was fine last week. Now when I run the speedtest app, I get spikes in the packet speeds (like Dirac functions) and the results are always inconsistent
i just ran the speedtest and the server was in Sayreville, NJ
i am having the exact same issue..at least yours keeps switching the band..on mine..once it looses 3g it wont even switch to edge..just disconnects the data connection..until i reboot or cycle thru the flight mode.if i force it on gsm only than the data connection is solid on edge..but whats the point..i need a fast data connection...and this is the most important thing that i need on a phone..good and fast data connection..for voip and other apps.my previous phone, desire hd does this band switching smoothly and does not loose data connection.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
iznee said:
i am having the exact same issue..at least yours keeps switching the band..on mine..once it looses 3g it wont even switch to edge..just disconnects the data connection..until i reboot or cycle thru the flight mode.if i force it on gsm only than the data connection is solid on edge..but whats the point..i need a fast data connection...and this is the most important thing that i need on a phone..good and fast data connection..for voip and other apps.my previous phone, desire hd does this band switching smoothly and does not loose data connection.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It did it smoothly on mine until today.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
First, one of the advantages of an international non-branded phone is the lack of carrier modifications and crapware. The downside is the radio is also not optimized for a specific carrier's network. That's the answer to the different behavior between the Captivate and SGS2.
Second, New York's the worst possible market to comment on AT&T's network performance. The problems and congestion they have there are legend. Also, if they're working on the network (EG: upgrading more back haul) you're going to get funky performance while they're doing it.
Third, my Arabian friends, this has nothing to do with the issues a handful of you are having.
I'm in a smaller market with little congestion and mine phone works flawlessly and consistently. Like everyone else, my phone drops from H/H+ when no data's being transmitted but kicks back in instantly when needed.
Just hit 5424kbps/1254kbps on Speedtest using a local server. Could it be a regional issue in NY?
well a wonderful thing happened today.
people were calling me all day on the office number and asking "why do not you pick up your cell?"
I look at the cell , see 5 full bars on it and think to myself that they must have dialed a wrong number by accident.
Eventually I get suspicious, and dial my cell from my office phone - sure enough, it goes to voice mail after about 6 tones.
I had 5 bars on the phone. I then tried walking close to my office window, and even went downstairs and outside of the building. Still 5 bars, but can't reach that number. And when I tried calling FROM sgs2, it would just say "dialing" and then "call ended" after about 30 seconds of silence.
It took a phone reboot to properly get on the network.
kreoXDA said:
well a wonderful thing happened today.
people were calling me all day on the office number and asking "why do not you pick up your cell?"
I look at the cell , see 5 full bars on it and think to myself that they must have dialed a wrong number by accident.
Eventually I get suspicious, and dial my cell from my office phone - sure enough, it goes to voice mail after about 6 tones.
I had 5 bars on the phone. I then tried walking close to my office window, and even went downstairs and outside of the building. Still 5 bars, but can't reach that number. And when I tried calling FROM sgs2, it would just say "dialing" and then "call ended" after about 30 seconds of silence.
It took a phone reboot to properly get on the network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odd.
One of my co-worker said he had called me in the morning to see what i wanted for breakfast but i didn't pick up. Unless i received the call while i was in the elevator, i would have noticed the call. It didn't have a missed call notification or show up in the log.
Also i was able to use the phone during the day without a reboot.
I just reran the tests, it looks like my speeds are back to norm.
Just clocked in 4.38, 3.86, 4.7 and 5.75 down and 1.41,.97, 1.26, and 1.45 up. For those of you in nyc, run your tests again and see if it works
kreoXDA said:
well a wonderful thing happened today.
people were calling me all day on the office number and asking "why do not you pick up your cell?"
I look at the cell , see 5 full bars on it and think to myself that they must have dialed a wrong number by accident.
Eventually I get suspicious, and dial my cell from my office phone - sure enough, it goes to voice mail after about 6 tones.
I had 5 bars on the phone. I then tried walking close to my office window, and even went downstairs and outside of the building. Still 5 bars, but can't reach that number. And when I tried calling FROM sgs2, it would just say "dialing" and then "call ended" after about 30 seconds of silence.
It took a phone reboot to properly get on the network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried forcing 1900 or 850 to see if that helps? I'm near Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Hazleton in Pa, and 1900 does have a much faster ping and more bars, but 850 is generally faster and more reliable. In my particular case of course.
As further support of data being dormant on purpose, the Music Hub just popped up a dialog when I launched it that said "Activate data? Charges may apply." I get to NYC pretty frequently, you guys are really making me look forward to it.
rwj5279955 said:
Have you tried forcing 1900 or 850 to see if that helps? I'm near Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Hazleton in Pa, and 1900 does have a much faster ping and more bars, but 850 is generally faster and more reliable. In my particular case of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not yet. I admit I panicked and bounced the phone Thought the phone just self destructed inside or something - never ever have I had a problem like this on AT&T in NYC in my 15 years with AT&T.
I can vouch this also never happened with my Captivate that I got on its release day.
Next time this happens I will try forcing bands.
kreoXDA said:
I have not yet. I admit I panicked and bounced the phone Thought the phone just self destructed inside or something - never ever have I had a problem like this on AT&T in NYC in my 15 years with AT&T.
I can vouch this also never happened with my Captivate that I got on its release day.
Next time this happens I will try forcing bands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've had a few instances of network connectivity issues with my captivate where i couldn't connect. That could have been from the custom rom. Now my buddy swears that he gets barely any network connection at his apartment
Anyways i'm getting much better network performance now. Even better than before
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I spent the majority of the day today in NYC and definitely experienced this, I actually tore through my battery completely bc of the lack of consistency with data connection. I even gave up checking xda.
I cannot wait till we have different modems to test!