Database Users

Android/Google privacy issues & EULA Issues

It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?

metempsihoza said:
It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?
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Click to collapse
Very, if I wasn't comfortable with sharing my information with Google I never would've signed up for my first Gmail account. As for pointing out people in pictures, facebook-esque? I'm pretty sure that will be optional, so you shouldn't have to worry about that if you don't want to. I don't see the big deal, unless they use the information (and for what?).

As for browser tracking, there's already the "Iron" variant of Chrome which strips out all of the user tracking. The same will undoubtedly be done for Android, if it's not explicitly available already.

Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.

stocaprimo said:
Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.
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I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.

lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
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Haha if you don't trust your ISP then get off the internet, they know absolutely everything you do, and if they wanted to use any of it against you they could.

lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
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Click to collapse
Not sure where you saw a clause about voice chat. Perhaps if you provided a reference it would help.
It's true that just because something is free doesn't mean it's good. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, either, or that things that cost money are always good. The real question is whether or not there is any malicious intent, and again there's nothing that says anything free is automatically malicious.
Part of the reason why Google's products are so popular is because Google has the ability to mine copious amounts of userdata in order to create powerful and useful services. It turns out that with most of these products, you reach a threshold where there's so much userdata that your own specific data becomes statistically insignificant -- security through obscurity.
Sure there are people to whom that "excuse" is not good enough, and there are ways to opt out of submitting userdata. But at least Google provides (some amount of) transparency to their terms, which is more than can be said about many other companies that are more callous about abusing your privacy for monetary gain. If you're that concerned about privacy, then you should give up Google products, online search/directory services, online shops like Amazon and B&N, the vast majority of user-generated content sites, messaging services like AIM and MSN, ... Pretty much everything short of disconnecting your ISP. Same with wireless carriers and how they track your calls, voicemail, messaging, possibly even location. Hell, you might as well just stop doing anything, because even in real life, everything you do and everything you buy says something about you.
Of course there's something to be said that the G1 ships with only Google apps installed. But that's missing the bigger picture, that the open platform (the core Android stack, which needs absolutely no userdata for functionality) essentially allows you to trim the baggage wherever you see fit. Certainly not right away, and the G1 will be the learning curve, but ultimately the whole platform will have a level of transparency that no other mobile OS (WinMo, iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry, etc) currently has.

People said the same thing about library cards 20 years ago. Anyone who thinks any organization, let alone the government, respects your privacy is living in a fantasy world.
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases. I think the e-mails I got with links to the numa-numa dance or mortgages or viagra or my nigerian cousin with money to send me are fairly safe for now.

I'm not worried.
1) I'm not typing in my birthdate, SS#, and mailing address left and right. All the other information is pretty much useless for anything significant.
2) Identity theft is the easiest crime to prosecute. Most of the criminals are stupid and have the merchandise, credit cards, or other stuff sent to their own address, leading the Cops/FBI straight to their door.
3) If I were truly worried, I'd have my credit reports frozen. It's not that expensive, and it stops ID theft, even when the thief has all your info.

beartard said:
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases.
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This a perfect example why I'd rather trust Google with personal info than many other entities. The Governmnet was trying to do something illegal, Google resisted and won.
The reason that Google all the data gathering is for en masse analysis. Wired had an interesting article about it recently (link). This gigantic mass of data is how they were able to create the Chrome browser so quickly and have it work. The information they have allowed them to simulate years of beta testing in a few days. They don't really care it YOU use a particular website or type of phone, they care that 213568 people use a particular website or type of phone.
It really annoys me that people get on Google's case for this type of thing. They could easily have been more underhanded and you'd never know and they'd really never have to tell you because of legal loopholes.
They're being upfront that that's a good thing.

oh wow... I just watched a talk at Hope from a PI about this... so... all you information is publicly available already. With any single piece of information about you someone can get you DOB, SSN, jobs and pay, friends, sexual orientation, your picture, religion, political views,....... and on and on and on. Google already has one of the largest databases of information about you. You know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place. Myspace, linkdin, monster, transunion, facebook,.... they are all keeping information on you... it's a scary world out there... if you have an SSN you information is publicly available. If you have used the internet then even more about you is public knowledge. Here is the best part... because google, facebook, monster..... are all private companies they don't have to delete you information EVER... and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
BTW google is now offering a service for doctors to store your medical information online
sorry for rambling... I am getting a G1 and I have trusted google for years... if you are wanted don't get online, make a phone call, drive your car, or even walk outside in some cities but otherwise you shouldn't have anything to fear.

dagentooboy said:
...you know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place...
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And your source for this rather unbelieveable claim is...?

sorry... here is the session that I watched...
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=3079242748023143842&hl=en&fs=true
and part 2
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2219573359400519690&hl=en&fs=true
I was just trying to make a point about how little privacy we really have these days... watch it for your self if you want to devote the 3 hrs to it (Very interesting)

dagentooboy said:
and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using the same information, you can see that five of the 17-18 hijackers on 9/11 are running Dominos pizza places in Riyadh at this very moment.

Android EULA Questions
If someone can send me a copy of the EULA for the G1, both Android and TMo's I would really appreciate it. I want one, but I have nagging privacy concerns that T-Mobile is unable/unwilling to answer.
Android is in a position to collect serious amounts of data on individuals, and the combination of Google's desktop information combined with the information from the handset has really scary Orwellian possibilities. With Android Google has the ability to collect very detailed location information. There has been no mention in the media over the rights to the data that could be collected by Google. Does the EULA give Google the rights to use and sell the data collected from Android, and specify what data it collects, and give you an opt-out?
I know it's really kind of conspiracy theory, and sounds out in left field, but I don't put anything past corporations trying to make money. Imagine if you went in to buy a car, and the dealer buys your Google data? They know know what cars you have looked at online, what dealers you have visited, how long you were there, and whether or not you have explored other financing options than the dealers. Same with buying a house... The selling agent could buy your Google data, and know what other houses you have looked at, and what price range you are looking in. Possibly serious advantages in negotiating.
Imagine the value of the information your bank would have if they bought your location data, and overlayed it with your banking records. they then could sell a very detailed consumer profile of where you shopped, where you bought, and other spending/location/web history data.
The bar code application has lousy implications also. It gives the vendor of the app a really good idea of what you are shopping for, and the locations you do your shopping.
Another thing that's kind of unnerving is the association of your location with your google calendar.
It's bad enough with all the data Google gets from my email, calendar, and web history do I really want them to have EVERYTHING?

Are you that paranoid?
As if your information isn't out there for anyone to get now.
Your phone is as safe as it's gonna be as the amount of info you keep on your desktop gmail.
whether is on a desktop gmail account or a phones.
Guess what? same thing.
Unless I'm really missing something. lol
Your ISP doesnt really protect you much. Gmail has won court orders from the government revealing info from accounts.
Toss a coin.

you have a point. but to be honest everything is gearing to that. from easy pass to credit/debit cards to just logging into you isp and geetting ads to meet single in your hoe town. i realized this as i just movend and was getting adds for where i lived.
if someone wanted to find u they just need ur cell phone. unless u have a analog phone u are being tracked (or can be tracked) whether u want to be or not.
or u can get the phone set up and email with gmail then do not use it. use the pop email feature until a full exchange solution come out. the use yahoo or altav or anything else for searching. u might have some temp success at eluding the glasses of google.
if i had the info u were really looking for i would be glad to share. if i dont miss or havent missed ups. today might be the day

I know everything on my PC's well monitored by everyone from the ISP to every friggin advertising cookie that gets dropped on me. Private email's on my own server, not GMail. I just think location data's a little much, and people need to be cognizant of what we are giving away for shiny new toys and features. And Google's little gaff with the Chrome EULA (We want the rights to everything you do with this..I Know it was an "error") removed a lot of the don't be evil luster.
And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching....

My point was...you have a sim card type cell. Thats all they need to track you.
You can delete every program on the phone. Guess what, you can be tracked, by the sim card inserted and your phone just being on.
As for info do what was mentioned in the previous thread.
Miss read and deleted a statement!

I know, I can be tracked tower to tower, and approximated (I used to work in a 911 dispatch center and had to deal with a ton of cell 911 calls). But, there is some expectation of privacy from a telco, and oversight from the FCC is a possibility (I know, great job they've done so far with carriers). But, like I said, I was curious, and none of the blogging coverage has said anything yet, s I figured I might try to stir up some stuff.

Help enhance my demo Xoom at [redacted] to increase sales!

I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!

TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10% of your commission, and you got a deal
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.

Verrrrry interesting original post...
I'm guessing Best Buy. First thing:
Move it out of the stinking netbook aisle at the very back, put it in a more prominent place, where it deserves to be. If you hide stuff like that, people aren't gonna see it, therefore they aren't gonna buy it. This should be basic stuff for a retail chain, but for some reason these types of things slip their mind. When I went to bestbuy to get my xoom, I wouldn't have even known it existed if I hadn't done some research beforehand, and the tablet was waaaaaaaaaaay in the back of the netbook section, and I mean the VERY back...last "stall" there.
As for your boss, I think he can take the hit on ONE xoom to sell many of them. Tell him that the most effective way to "ipad baby-proof" the thing is to root it and install TitaniumBackup. He probably thinks rooting means radically changing things, which currently, it doesn't. You're going to have to explain it to him, probably in baby terms if he's anything like most managers I've had, who didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground. If you put it in terms of profitability, he MAY understand.
As for cool apps, just give the sales force a demo model to play with when they're not doing anything else. Let them get to KNOW the device. When I go to buy something, it's not so important for the sales person to know what they're selling me because I already have done a ton of research, but I am not your typical customer. You're going to get a lot of people in there who aren't really that tech-savvy, so if the sales people on the floor know how to use the device, they can demo some of the cooler features to the people.
For example:
Your grandmother walks into the store, she's looking for something to use to email her grandchildren, perhaps a video chat occasionally and she wants something EASY to use, fairly inexpensive and something she's not going to have to pay the geek squad to set up. Well, right this way ma'am, I have something that would be perfect for you, <insert sales demo here>... unit sold.
Another example:
Younger person comes into the store, looking at iPads. Ask them what they're looking to do with the device. If your sales force KNOWS both the iPad and the Xoom, it's kind of a no-brainer to be able to make the best sale for the customer and isn't that what business is all about?
I rarely go into a superstore like Best Buy and find truly knowledgeable people when it comes to the latest electronics. The BestBuy in South County, Missouri lost a sale not too long ago from me because they told me I couldn't buy the Verizon Xoom off contract, which is nonsense. So I simply went to another store and bought it. Perfect example of a person not knowing what the heck they're talking about.
I realize that there are a LOT of new products out there, but it's the responsibility of the store's employees (and ultimately the store's management) to LEARN about these devices so that when people ask BASIC questions, they can answer them.
It wasn't too long ago that I attended a sales lecture at college. Younger people (age 35 and under) normally knew what they were going after when they went to buy tech, and often preferred to be left alone to fiddle with the product a bit and basically only needed help during the actual sales process (or the retrieval process if the item was locked in a secure case). People 35 and over almost universally wanted help from start to finish because their understanding of the tech wasn't always so great. To sell to that person over 35, which is going to be a sizable portion of your business, your employees need to know that device and demo what it it can do on a moment's notice.
So, to me, you've got the "location, location, location" problem and also the "knowledge, knowledge, knowledge" problem if you haven't sold any of these things yet.
Here's something you can do, which will really appeal to older folks... set up one xoom on one side of the aisle, set up another one in sight of the first, but farther away, perhaps on the other side of the aisle. When someone comes in and asks what the xoom can do, just turn on video conferencing and SHOW them how cool it is. Have your sales people be able to demo the different features.
You can also show them how much FASTER the xoom is rendering web pages than the iPad. Everyone loves to save time, irrespective of age.
Another thing the xoom does EXTREMELY well is reformatting text. It will automatically reformat the text when you zoom in on a website, to make it readable. In fact, it makes the text beautiful.
You can show them how they can have live widgets on their home-screens, and the iPad can't.
Honestly, if people knew what the xoom could do, who in the hell would buy an iPad anyway???
Motorola made a HUGE mistake with their superbowl commercial too, they didn't show what the xoom could do. Nobody is going to buy a device like this because it looks cool. Sure, that's something they think about, but that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down their list, probably down around "what kind of towel do I need to use to clean the screen" or something. What matters most is functionality and price. If it doesn't do what I need it to do, if it doesn't enrich my life in some way, what good is it??
I guarantee you that if you gave me 10 minutes with 10 people who were going to buy an iPad, and they gave me a fair chance to demo what the xoom could do, at least 7 of those would buy the xoom instead. The number would be even higher if it was just a basic netbook buyer, because a good netbook is even MORE expensive than the xoom.
It baffles me that these things aren't FLYING off the shelves. I think that's mostly due to bad sales tactics and poor marketing. It's unfortunate too because it's such an amazing device.
Oh yeah, FLASH. iPad can't give you the web like a desktop can, but xoom can.

Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.

stevenege said:
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.
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Click to collapse
Oh it boots, but its missing the Books app and the music that was preloaded. Hence my problem. I guess doing a factory restore from recovery mode won't get back the music. :/

if you have a Nexus or some other phone that can do mobile hotspot on display or some phone that can do mobile hotspot, that'll be your best chance of getting internet connection. from there you can reinstall anything.
i think most of the displays i've seen failed because of the lack of internet. every ipad i've seen always had internet connection. impressed with some of the free games like Gun bros or dungeon and defenders

vkuber said:
Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Darn! I made it too easy. ^_^
I'm very honest in my sales, I always mention its V1.0 of the software and that the apps aren't there yet. Its very hard to explain its potential without demonstrating it somehow.
And yes we have an endcap right near the registers with lots of accessories. The Xoom deserves a prominent place in our store TBH.
It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
Still looking for a "kiosk-mode" or "kid-safe" app that locks the device settings in some way. That and apps that really bring out the Xoom's best qualities.

Hey check this out for app locking. http://htcdev.net/topic/1224-kid-mode-for-your-tablet-and-smartphone/
Sent from my HTC Incredible using XDA App

Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^

TheGeek007 said:
Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download Quick Settings (Free) from the market. Once installed, in the menu, choose customize and drag the Screen Timeout to the top area. You can set it to "Never Timeout". This appears to keep the screen from dimming, at least in the 5 minutes I tested it.

Gotta say +1 on the bad placement at best buy. They even had a whole featured section called "tablets" with the streak, galaxy, Ipad, etc. I had to ask someone if they were selling xooms. They were out (this was wifi release day) but they directed me to their demo model all the way on the other side of the store BEHIND all the computers, near the random stereo cables. Went to staples and it was front and center and in stock. Sorry BB, I came to you first and you let me down.
But forget about attracting new people to buy the xoom, put it somewhere that I can find it if I came there SPECIFICALLY for it.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

My suggestion would be putting the wallpaper of android that came preinstalled. Put games like gunbros,dungeon defenders, cordy on the center homescreen. Also gmail widget. And YouTube app is very pretty and lots of people use it and it'll be a very good bet to get people. Also, sideload Amazon appstore as well as the market on there. Picsay also is an awesome little app. Good luck.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Are you allowed to lock apps with a password? If so, there ares dozens of solutions already in the Android market:
https://market.android.com/search?q=app+password&so=1&c=apps
Just apply a password to the apps you want to protect, at least I assume its thats simple... I haven't tried these apps myself, so you'll have to experiment.

TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick list:
Flash (47% of all web sites have flash according to a research firm as of today)
Higher quality cameras (Many times better then the iPad 2)
Excellent battery life
A solid screen. (It might help if you turn the brightness off auto and place it at 100%)
Put it next to the ipad2's, not by netbooks. (some kind of DroidDoes-eque banner would be great, but I can understand that could be hard to get.)
A SD slot (stress that it WILL happen soon. (like may)
4G upgrade (Stress it's FREE, something the iPad 2 will never have, and that it's a hardware upgrade and will only take a matter of days)
I would load up a couple of graphically advanced games on the main home screen. (like maybe GunBros and SpeedX 3D, both of which are fun, free, good looking games)
Stress how open it is to making it individual (ease at which to customize)
If the person looks tech savy, be sure to say the boot loader is unlockable.
Stress the widescreen (16:9) over the "full screen" (4:3) iPad
Use some of the tablet optimized apps to show the multipane options. (show this next to the iPad as an OS designed for a tablet screen, not a handheld screen.)
And lastly for my list, compare the browser to the ipad browser, with tabs and a fuller experience. it earns high marks.
Hope this helped and wasn't too repeative.
(p.s. on the hole lack of books app, just go through and reinstall the apps and register with the same account as the Xoom is on.)
p.s.s. just customize it, make it look like a person uses it, not like it just came from a factory.

Another thing you can show them...
HDMI Out, with HD support. They could even do video chats on their TV (something the ipad can't do w/o an expensive add-on, and even then it doesn't look very good due to it not being HD and being in 4:3).
The ONE area where the ipad beats the xoom is standby battery. But for all that battery, you give up all the cool widgets and what makes android cool. So to me, it was a no-brainer.
If you have the authority, send a demo xoom home with your sales associates, let 'em keep it for a weekend or something so they KNOW what all they can do with it. Encourage them to play with it and do whatever they want. Once a person gets ahold of this device, they'll realize how amazing it truly is and they'll start to spread that enthusiasm to customers. I loved my android phone at first, but after a week of playing with it, I wouldn't trade it for a dozen iphones.
It's all about getting these things in peoples' hands. If they can SEE what it does, they'll want one, it's just that simple. It beats the ipad in virtually every area. When you couple that with the fact that the xoom is incredibly customizable, themeable, unlockable and the browsing experience is so much better, it's a winner of a tablet.
If they want a tablet to play the guitar, drums or some other synthesizer nonsense, then the ipad is for them. If they want to CONNECT to other people and experience the web as it's meant to be, they need the xoom.

Google maps with 3d buildings look great on zoom.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Prepare your Xoom with Moboplayer and load it up with some movies in different formats with all different kind of subtitles (.srt, .ass (this is a subtitle format), and be sure to get some .mkv with built-in subtitles). Then choose the correct subtitle for the correct customer.

>It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
I don't know what you can do for the Xoom, but it'd help your sales pitch by not starting with a "no."
That said, there isn't much you can do or say, other than to wait for Moto to drop its premium pricing--or until it releases the 16GB SKU at a more competitive price.
http://ubergizmo.com/2011/04/16gb-motorola-xoom-on-its-way

Most people don't want a Xoom and you can't make them.
Sent from my Captivate

Cool Xoom Story at my Dr's Office Today

I went to see my Spine Surgeon today ( I have a really bad back and need a 2nd Spinal Fusion, Facet Joints this time, I take Percocet 10/325 and HydroMorphone 4mg for Pain). Any ways when I was done and leaving I over heard my Dr. talking to another Dr. about the Motorola Xoom and how he would like one to replace his laptop and the the iPad 2 was out of the question (as he has a Droid X and liked Android). As it happened I had my Xoom with me (I take it everywhere with me and showed it to him and he was VERY impressed and said this is what he was/is looking for. He asked about Google Voice (as that's important for him and I said it will be coming). I explained how Honeycomb was a new OS and needed sometime to grow and he understood and said he did not like iOS. I showed him Evernote and used it with my Stylus Pen and he said he would get one later today
If Dr.s start seeing an advantage of the Xoom/Honeycomb over iPad/iOS, Honeycomb will make a big splash. I also showed his nurse Toy Story 3 and Avatar (Blu-Ray) and she was sold as well.
The Dr. he was talking to asked me if I had Rooted yet ( he obviously knows what's going on and I said No as I had not seen any ROM's worth Rooting for yet) and that the only reason for me to root so far is to Overclock to 1.5ghz. I told him that the SDK or AOSP for Honeycomb had not been released yet but when it does I will definitely Root and start Flashing ROM's/Kernel's. I showed them my Rooted HTC EVO and how I was using it as a Wireless Hotspot (in the Hospital) and they were really impressed.
Suffice it to say but if Dr's are starting to hear about the Xoom/Honeycomb it has major potential (especially in that area). I told him about the HTC Flyer and that it may be worth looking at as well as it may be more to his liking. I told him it was only 7" but he liked the 10" form factor and wanted to replace his laptop and use it while talking with patients

if he has the income, he could probably get them all XD

As great as the Xoom is and the I pad, hospitals will take a while to get behind it due to security. Drs can store Protected Health Information on the device and run the risk or a data breech if lost ormaliciuos software allows access.
At my org there has been talk about the Playbook due to it being on a blackberry platform, but the pressure is out there for them to allow droid and apple tablets which they are trying to delay implimenting.
By the way...I carry my Xoom with me at my hospital and get lots of questions from the docs, butuse it primarily for school so its not on our network

A 2nd fusion - wow. That sucks. I hope this one gets you all set.
We need more folks in the professional sphere to start touting the benefits of android. That will come with time though - apple effectively has a head start on the whole tablet thing, just as it did with popularizing the smart phone, but it won't last. I see android tablets taking this market over as well - once two or three iterations of hardware and software occur.

You DID show him Google Body, didn't you??
XOOM'd from the XDA app.

GarnetandBlack said:
A 2nd fusion - wow. That sucks. I hope this one gets you all set.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too bro, me too. Right now I am on Percocet 10/325 and HydroMorphone 4mg (4x a day) and that stuff is VERY, VERY, Strong. The HydroMorphone is 4x more powerful than Morphine. They are going to Fuse my Facet Joints as they have become loose and Arthritic

As a PA for an orthopaedic surgeon I use my xoom a lot. Rdp to our office emr is a snap. The battery life is way better than our office tablet laptops. In fact....just before surgery he asked if I could pull up the office charts on a patient we were getting ready to do surgery on.....I trurned on the EVO hot spot and (I have the wifi only model) I had the chart up in a minute. I don't like ios. He is a Mac guy but I'm slowly winning him over. Its gonna take time but I can tell you after booting the iPhone / ios ill never go back for our needs. I can send scripts to pharmacies, check patient charts ( hospital system and office emr) with the click of three buttons.
Android kills.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Well I am primary in commerical real estate investing but I also own som retail businesses and I have replaced my laptop with my xoom. So far so good. My biggest complaints are that the office programs are not robust enough, especially on the spreadsheet side (I have quickoffice hd and docs to go full). Also, I think google needs a builtin file manager for the tablet os (one more reason not to have one os for all android devices). Google needs to treat the tablet like a netbook and not like a big phone (like apple does with the ipad).
The portablility is awesome and the beats carrying my laptop around or reading docs and spreadsheets on my epic and blackberry. Basically when need I need to create a spreadsheet or scan something I hope on one of the desktops at the office. Otherwise its zoom. Plus with google cloud print I can even print from the xoom!
Overall its getting there. Make the tablet a laptop replacement not some cool extra toy like the ipad and google will completely capture the business market.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

Should have told him you can use Google Voice but you just need to install the apk.

diablonyc2 said:
As great as the Xoom is and the I pad, hospitals will take a while to get behind it due to security. Drs can store Protected Health Information on the device and run the risk or a data breech if lost ormaliciuos software allows access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fortunately Honeycomb supports encrypted the storage drive so that should not be that big of a problem for Android

Cool Story bro!

Now we just need more tablet compatible apps.

If Google wants to sell its OS to doctors, they really need to come out with some special medicine oriented apps/s. I'm not talking about apps from users or small companies, I am talking about official Google apps like Body.

bet he just wants it for Google Body - https://market.android.com/details?id=com.google.android.apps.body&feature=search_result

diablonyc2 said:
As great as the Xoom is and the I pad, hospitals will take a while to get behind it due to security. Drs can store Protected Health Information on the device and run the risk or a data breech if lost ormaliciuos software allows access.
At my org there has been talk about the Playbook due to it being on a blackberry platform, but the pressure is out there for them to allow droid and apple tablets which they are trying to delay implimenting.
By the way...I carry my Xoom with me at my hospital and get lots of questions from the docs, butuse it primarily for school so its not on our network
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More than likely, they will be using some manner of client/server situation, where the patient data is centralized, and the client just being a dumb terminal. Only have to worry about access control, since no critical data would be stored locally.

FrayAdjacent said:
More than likely, they will be using some manner of client/server situation, where the patient data is centralized, and the client just being a dumb terminal. Only have to worry about access control, since no critical data would be stored locally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my thoughts too
you'd not want any data stored on the device - only apps/whatever to get at the data remotely.
problem is you'd then need wifi to corporate network and that may be a big security no-no in some places, unless a vpn solution is incorporated...

It will be interesting to see "what's next" in this field...as governemnt regulations on protecting data become more and more intesne. Client/Server seems to be the best scenario currently through a secured connection.
If someone could build a better mousetrap the market is wide open! It will be interesting to see how the Playbook fairs....could it revive the brand?
As for the Xoom --- love the size of it...cannot wait until I get a good portfolio for it to make carrying around inconspicious! I plan on phasing this in to take the place of my notepad.

Kindle Fire from a parents perspective

I have a Fire in the closet in the Amazon gift wrap which I originally purchased for my 10 yr old. She is pretty responsible so far but she is very very private and is not very open to talk about much, fairly introverted, heavy reader and artist.
So with the latest update still not providing any parental controls over content....yes I know I can use my router to filter traffic for the browser but I can't filter Amazon content. I can lock her out from making the purchase in the latest update I see.
At any rate, I am an avid phone tweaker and am pleased to see CM and ICS is well underway for the Fire.
My question is, is there any type of controls planned or built into the current custom roms or through third party apps? Would I be better off putting CM or ICS on it and using the Google Books and other apps for content? Or do you think I am better off letting her use it out of the box? She's 10 yrs old so she doesn't care about browser performance or quadrant scores.
I am wondering which will provide the best experience while giving me the most control over the use and content available on the device?

jamesnmandy said:
I have a Fire in the closet in the Amazon gift wrap which I originally purchased for my 10 yr old. She is pretty responsible so far but she is very very private and is not very open to talk about much, fairly introverted, heavy reader and artist.
So with the latest update still not providing any parental controls over content....yes I know I can use my router to filter traffic for the browser but I can't filter Amazon content. I can lock her out from making the purchase in the latest update I see.
At any rate, I am an avid phone tweaker and am pleased to see CM and ICS is well underway for the Fire.
My question is, is there any type of controls planned or built into the current custom roms or through third party apps? Would I be better off putting CM or ICS on it and using the Google Books and other apps for content? Or do you think I am better off letting her use it out of the box? She's 10 yrs old so she doesn't care about browser performance or quadrant scores.
I am wondering which will provide the best experience while giving me the most control over the use and content available on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a parent myself my main concern would be control over purchases, as far as censoring content I'm a firm believer in letting children explore their curiosities and interests without a whole lot of intervention on my part aside from the open invitation that they can talk about anything at anytime. There are apps available that would allow you to lock out apps of your choosing, I'm sure if you do a search on the market you would find something suitable to your needs. As far as custom roms vs. amazons rom I don't personally think either one would be better than the other for this purpose. Hope I helped you in some way and I apologize if I didn't.

neilrl79 said:
As a parent myself my main concern would be control over purchases, as far as censoring content I'm a firm believer in letting children explore their curiosities and interests without a whole lot of intervention on my part aside from the open invitation that they can talk about anything at anytime. There are apps available that would allow you to lock out apps of your choosing, I'm sure if you do a search on the market you would find something suitable to your needs. As far as custom roms vs. amazons rom I don't personally think either one would be better than the other for this purpose. Hope I helped you in some way and I apologize if I didn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Black anything with black men. Don't want her turning in to Dakota Fanning in The Secret Life of Bees movie.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

I have 3 kids. I am not censoring them, thats imho not necessary. My parental control is that i have personal look to what they are doing and i think its better to do that personally instead of using censorship programs.
Because my kids know how to workaround any censorship software anyway, they are not stupid. But basically they are not interested in stuff that will be censored anyway.
Typical american censorship anyway is very stupid. Not to allow porn stuff but to allow brutality and murdering and killing people is pretty much pathetic.
So i better stick on talking with my kids about what they are watching, if i find something where i should be concerned.

usurpine said:
I have 3 kids. I am not censoring them, thats imho not necessary. My parental control is that i have personal look to what they are doing and i think its better to do that personally instead of using censorship programs.
Because my kids know how to workaround any censorship software anyway, they are not stupid. But basically they are not interested in stuff that will be censored anyway.
Typical american censorship anyway is very stupid. Not to allow porn stuff but to allow brutality and murdering and killing people is pretty much pathetic.
So i better stick on talking with my kids about what they are watching, if i find something where i should be concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so the reality is i cannot sit on top of my kid all the time nor do i desire to, i do follow up and leave things always open, i am not looking for a passive parenting tool, nor do i really give a damn what anyone else thinks about my methods. I do not believe in censorship. I also don't think it is appropriate to put something in a 10 yr olds hands that has access to absolutely anything the internet has to offer. To me that is a bit of apathetic complacency....."they aren't interested in that stuff". Fine, if they aren't they won't miss it anyways then. Exactly what positive could possibly come from them having access to everything out there at 10 years old? Life is really long and serious, there is plenty of time to learn about the world, in due time, no need to accidentally learn about Big Black ***** go to Vegas #18 at age 10.
So my question remains, which rom would you choose? The official Amazon OS with only access to the Amazon market and content and being subject to whatever Amazon pushes my way, or the CM/ICS experience that gives me complete control, access to the official android market, and no restrictions on what browser, etc....can be used.

jamesnmandy said:
So my question remains, which rom would you choose? The official Amazon OS with only access to the Amazon market and content and being subject to whatever Amazon pushes my way, or the CM/ICS experience that gives me complete control, access to the official android market, and no restrictions on what browser, etc....can be used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no kid version... You are asking for complete control from someone who might possibly end up knowing more about the device than you do. Kids have something that parents dont.... lots of time.
You might get more capabilities with a non-Kindle Rom, but I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for.
10yo is a bit young to have that type of unfettered access... I know what I would have done with it when I was that age.
My two kids are grown up, but they would have been okay with it. I know other kids that other family members have where there is NO WAY I would give them a device like that at that age or even much older.

I would say filter at home through the router. Asfor content and filtering, i thimk the stock rom is best.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

krelvinaz said:
There is no kid version... You are asking for complete control from someone who might possibly end up knowing more about the device than you do. Kids have something that parents dont.... lots of time.
You might get more capabilities with a non-Kindle Rom, but I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for.
10yo is a bit young to have that type of unfettered access... I know what I would have done with it when I was that age.
My two kids are grown up, but they would have been okay with it. I know other kids that other family members have where there is NO WAY I would give them a device like that at that age or even much older.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i got my girls, I have two, a netbook which we let them use, in the family room, with us around. we aren't looking over their shoulder.....but there's something about being in the same room with the parents that makes an impression. They are not allowed to take the netbook to their bedroom. They are not allowed to have cable tv on their tv either. They are lucky to have a tv in their bedroom with a dvd player, neither my wife nor I did. Hell we didn't even have a Nintendo.....
we aren't even religious....just trying to be good parents, let them have room as they get older, but i am not going to just give a 7 and 10 yr old complete access to the internet
i was actually thinking about swapping it out for one of the lesser Kindles without browser and such
I was really hoping maybe there existed a "Kidzui" for Android type of rom or app.

Shark_On_Land said:
Black anything with black men. Don't want her turning in to Dakota Fanning in The Secret Life of Bees movie.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your not serious are you? Please tell me you aren't?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium

^^^^^^^ What she said

Is it now illegal to root the Nexus 7

I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?

Righteous Joe said:
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read this? Doesn't sound right to be honest, not sure how rooting a tablet would differ in a legal sense from rooting a phone, they are near enough the same device after all. Ultimately it is your device that you own so you are free to do with it as you wish, its not as if you're rooting will have a major impact on anyone else. Unless you are caught installing pirate apps which would be considered as illegal.

Writing "I read [...]" and then not following up with a source means you completely lack credibility
Maybe you are referring to the decision cited in these sources
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3556740/copyright-dmca-jailbreak-unlock-mod-ruling
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...pyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
Take your time and read these sources
Also take your time to read up on material by senior xda members on the difference between rooting your device and unlocking your bootloader. It basically renders your "illegal to root" statement completely invalid.
Moving back to the Nexus 7, although the ruling is vague as #@!$ when it comes to tablets, your not forcibly breaking open the bootloader; its practically an on/off switch on the N7--Google is not coming after you.

The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......

Jailbreaking is illegal for iPad.
But unlocking and rooting a Nexus 7 is a whole different story. You don't need a exploit, thus you are not breaking any protection, that is why it is legal.
At least in the EU.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

There is a further distinction that can be drawn. In the case of an Android tablet it is using an OS that is in effect free of any restrictions - so you can "copy the book, change it and publish it, provided you acknowledge the source", contrast this with Microsoft and Apple ......sue,damages etc.

CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are incorrect good sir. The jaillbreaking exemption, which is no longer valid, didn't come about from a legal challenge. It was granted by the Librarian of Congress under the normal review process that takes place every three years. Furthermore, rooting phones for purposes of installing and operating legally obtained software is also exempted.
To address the OP, there's a lot of FUD going around about rooting tablets. The factual reality is that absolutely nothing at all has changed. Rest assured that, contrary to the sensationalism from some, the sky is in no danger of falling.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

If rooting a tablet (tablet computer) is illegal, then why don't we get only user account on windows (Administrator account locked) and when we install Ubuntu, why are we not only provided with our user folder and don't have access to anything else? It's exactly the same. I don't know why Android, as basically another one of oh-so-many Linux distros would be the only one, where you are not aloud to access root folders? Linux is open source, and it is your right to be provided with root access.
And since the purpose of root on Android is not installing cracked apps (you can sideload them with enabling 'outer sources'), I see absolutely no reason, why wouldn't it be legal.
Is editing your BIOS settings on PC legal? Again, I don't see why different rules would apply to desktop then to smaller version of PC (which smartphones pretty much are).
You bought the device, it's yours. Even if you decide to take it to another carrier, you paid them, you accepted the contract, you pay penalty in case you cancel the contract sooner. Just because I bought a car in Germany, doesn't mean it's suddenly illegal to drive it in Slovenia.
iOS is different issue. It's not open source, but again I don't see why jailbreaking would be illegal. Of course, installing cracked apps is different, but that's illegal anywhere.

This kind of garbage bugs be to no end... If I buy product A, then I should be able to do what ever I want to product A how ever I want, in regards to electronics. I bought the device, and no judge is going to tell me I can not unlock/root/etc it.

Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.

gnustomp said:
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.

AFAinHD said:
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.

when google comes after me for supporting their os with a law suit for changing my devices gui via root would be the end of days. So, yeah won't happen. sony and microsoft just ban people and their mac ip on their console i'd assume if they ever did do anything, they could ban you from market?

I Am Marino said:
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.

AFAinHD said:
There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I see at least one reason, (which of course is valid only to some apps, not all of them), and that is usualy true to big games only:
- how long have you today to request reffunds for apps you do not like / want / can not use? 15 minutes? or is it even shorter time now? (I do not know how it is now, sorry, I only use free/ad-supported apps now)
- how long does it takes for you to download 2GB of app data? For me it is definitly a LOT longer time that 15 minutes...
- which one of these (above mentioned) apps offer some kind of trial or limited demo or something? How can you try such apps to find out whether you like it or not ?
Can you see the reason for why not to support such apps? Or at least in the first place? Of coure that it is better (for many reasons) to buy the app in the end if you like it. But you can not tell that if you can not evaluate it.
And you are wrong that these apps cost lest than $1 and thus are cheap (or at least I understand that this was something you were triing to say), most of such apps cost $5-$15, and that can be realy a lot of money if you are not from US, just because you earn $15 per hour does not mean everyone does, there are countries where people works whole day or even week for $15.
Oh, and just to be clear: I do not thing that pirating software is good thing, but sometimes it is the only way how to evaluate something. And you should be allowed do do that, right? Or would you buy a car without (at least) triing to sit in it?
All right, all right, we can just preted that the apps (or game or music or anything) which looks like we want (or need) it does not exists, but to be honest: Can you realy do that? Especially when there is no similar replacement? Or would you just happily pay any price the DEV asks, hoping that it will be usefull to you?
And one more thing:
Lot of people here is stating that court or local law or anyone forbids/encourages something - well this kind of information is totally useless if you forget to tell us in which country/region is that true.
And just to prove my point: there is a country that legaly allows downloading of audio files. Also there is a coutry that allows legaly to use pirated Operating system (namely that was true for Windows XP, not sure if they extended that somehow). Is that information usefull to you? I do not think so, unless you live there and in that case, you should already now...

..

I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
AFAinHD said:
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that. As a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

This i totally agree with .This can stand for anything rather its music apps or even a drawing of a home done in Cad or even a book.. Think if you spend 2 years writing a Book. Then two days after its released you see it on a pirated site when its being retailed for 13.00 .While you have 2 years worth of bills piled up unpaid.Hoping the book sales. App developers often go thru this same thing. I like most everyone else did download some music in the past.NO longer would I do so . Never software and never reading material. Now if its not legal its not coming in our home or on my devices..If its to expensive the author or developer did not want to sell it.
Bottom line is support the people who Create the things that make your life enjoyable and easier to live. They wanna make ends meet to.. But its not really about the money its about what is right and wrong..
sgtpepper64 said:
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that, as a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
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