After an unnecessary long wait for Gingerbread release in the UK I have finally upgraded my Atrix to Gingerbread last night, 24/11/2011. My handset is actually T-Mobile's but flashed the retail UK ROM instead using RSDLite tool (used it for the first time) and released myself from the mercy of T-Mobile as they are always last in line for updates in the UK. I was proven right by TRose's post on Motorola's Owner Forums today. Having sim unlocked my phone previously, for a fiver, the transformation to a retail handset is now complete.
I would like to share my experience with Motorola leading to the Gingerbread update. If you have previously owned Motorola handsets, as I have, then you would be familiar with most of the things I have to say.
Obviously I could have done better with my time than typing this post with one figure on my Atrix phone. I believe having a voice regarding matters that affect large communities is very important. One would imagine in 21st century the human rights are observed and respected. I don't think that is the case and in the past ten years I have observed how corporates have been behaving like tyrants. I'm grateful I can submit this post freely about my concerns with Motorola.
Motorola without a doubt is the most arrogant, snob, and out of touch company in the world in my opinion, at least within the same business Motorola operates. This is the company that have measurable procedures in place to maintain their attitude towards matters outside of the company. One has to remember Motorola is a USA based company and they have been around since 1928. A company that established itself in the country where many men and women fought for freedom for the rest to allow anyone to succeed in the land of opportunities, the USA. I couldn't give a better example to which Mr Sanjay Jha an Indian born gentleman has been given the opportunity to lead one of the best known American companies. Was this possible even 30 years ago, I must ask?
What deeply disturbs me about Motorola is the self given rights to have no regards for the customers. Ever since I bought my Motorola Defy, Jan 2011, I have been browsing the Motorola's Forums and I found this pattern where the moderators keep bragging about Motorola's Business Partners and the "Precious Partnerships" but have nothing to say about the customers as if those who actually pay money to Motorola are non-existent. Does Motorola have any customer related slogans these days?
Let me be clear about my thoughts about Motorola before trying to find, speculate, or assume why things have been going the way they have. There is nothing on this planet, as far as I'm concerned, justifies Motorola's behaviour towards its customers, this is totally inexcusable in any context. Motorola can't have people's money then hide herself behind the terms and conditions and expect us not to have any voice over the issues. Only tyrants reserve the rights to themselves, are you one Motorola?
In my opinion the root of the problem is at the very top where you can find a gentleman called Mr Sanjay Jha. Assuming back stabbing wasn't the method of Mr. Jha to get to vice president and president positions in various companies one has to admire what he has managed to achieve. Allow me to remind the younger readers of this post that how important it is to realise the magnitude of Mr. Jha's achievement to be the CEO of Motorola today. Any company in the world only require 'one' CEO but many employees, directors, and so on. The world's population has reached to 7bn already. Today, only Mr. Jha hold that position at Motorola and no one else's.
Most of us would agree that Motorola still got the magic when it comes to hardware design. Of course, not everything Motorola makes is outstanding but for a company to create something like Atrix then it becomes apparent the company has the means to produce quality products in a very competitive market. I often praised the hardware engineers at Motorola but maybe that is because the software engineering division is so awful with no especial talents to be found there.
You might find this very strange if you knew Mr. Jha has a solid career in software engineering but then again what mainly people complain about are software related issues in Motorola phones i.e. performance, annoying issues that make the user experience very poor, very slow to denial of software updates, no commitment to any timelines, and many more.
In the past few weeks the Non-US Atrix Forum has been a battle ground for the UK users, naturally because of the English language. My threads were removed, my posts were censored occasionally after days of submission, my account was disabled five times, and at least I know one of my disabled accounts was used by Motorola. Please see the attachment and the explanation below. My goal was to give a medicine of their own and exercise my rights as a consumer whom felt Motorola clearly being abusive to Non-US consumers. I cannot speak behalf others in here but would like to acknowledge I was aware of the tactics being adopted to continue the battle with Motorola. I am humbled by the supports I got from other members and the participations to defend their own consumers' rights.
I'm really curious to find out why Motorola has been doing this and what makes them the right to treat their consumers the way they have done since a long time now. Mr. Jha was appointed in 2008 and the first Android phone from Motorola was released in October 2009, Motorola DROID (Known as Milestone in Europe). With the UK (Glasgow & Liverpool) history of Mr. Jha I wouldn't be surprised if he inherited some of the bad practices some of British retail groups have/had. In such business strategy a company provides next to zero customer service, puts the salesmen on high commissions, and make a huge fortune by selling insurance and extended warranties at distortion prices at same time. The outcome? Most of the salesmen had disappeared, people often don't pay for extended warranties and the companies in questions established themselves in a market where there won't be any rivals. Since then the customer service of these companies have been improved but not fixed. These companies somehow expect pad on the shoulder for this now, cheeky buggers. Motorola is not a retail company but I can see customers are not the focal point of the current business strategy when it clearly should be. Allow me to do an analogy if I may.
Apple and Motorola both are arrogance towards their customers but for very different reasons. Apple tells the customers you have no say in what we want you to have but should you choose us we will give you the best customer service experience. Why is that? Because Apple first respect themselves before respecting the consumers of their products. Motorola on the other hand, has no self-respect, don't believe in their own products and very disrespectful to their customers. That is the reason Apple is where they are and where the Motorola is today. Apple kept their consumers well informed and provided timelines in iPhone 4s battery saga so far but Motorola have been playing psychological war games with its consumers all the way. Please remember, Motorola has never broken any promises before because the promise itself was the game strategy to manage their plan to release the updates when they wish. Motorola has no short of talents in this department. The department is called the PR Machine.
I once phoned a UK Motorola number to find out where I could send my Atrix's faulty battery to for a replacement before someone grabbed the phone off the lady I was talking to and told me not to call again and hanged up on me. To me that was the true face of Motorola where their staff have no regards for the company's consumers.
I believe it was around mid October that Motorola officially announced, via the Forum Manager, due to the bugs mid-November was likely the release date. At that time I promised to keep my eyes on things to verify the claim that Motorola was hard at work fixing things. I even said they couldn't give us a ROM with a built date earlier than the announcement's date. Well, have a guess? In fact they did, the UK retail Atrix Gingerbread has 22 September build date. Motorola virtually has had the UK Retail ROM for two months while they decided to lock the main thread with unjust excuses and carried on censoring and not allowing users to share knowledge. Motorola couldn't even be consistent with the censorship implementation. Please bear in mind that all the tests that they claim do are done before the last build date.
The remaining of this post is not a personal attack on the Motorola's Forum staff but my chance to have my say when they censored me and disabled my accounts on regular basis to prevent me to have my say.
Mark, the forum manager, you are not as nice as you claim to be. Your number one fan is "you". I often read your posts how you bragged about your niceness. I have seen enough in my life, being in the age I am, be able to read between lines. You know very well that you have concealed information from the forum members and lied about how much you knew whilst claiming you are on our side. I appreciate the fact you have a job to do but I cannot knowingly lie or conceal information from others like the way you do. You must have the qualities to be able to do the job you've been doing for sometime now. To me any persons with those qualities could not be nice and someone I could trust and this is a common sense as far as I'm concerned.
Also would like to remind Motorola that in spite of your measurable and misrable procedures in place to control consumers and how you badly treated the UK users I have noticed the level of financial damage UK users managed to impose on you individually. Maybe that has contributed to the decision that Atrix 2 is not coming to the UK but I think it is understood that you cannot mess with us.
After the main discussion thread was locked by Mark then Matt opens a new thread "Are UK Atrix owners satisfied customers Yes or No? Please give reasons.". To this date only 27 replies can be counted for and few of them are off the topic. In a way I'm glad people didn't provide valuable information to Motorola because they don't deserve it. I have minimised the chance that Motorola would steal my usage patterns for their financial gain by blocking their master cloud server's ip address listed under the System Information and also frozen the update related programs that would upload the collected data to the Motorola's servers.
Mr. Jha! for the sakes of all Indians I hope you never find a place in the political systems of India. This is evident that you have no regards to civility.
The moral of this post is to remind the readers you do have rights beyond the wordings on Motorola's Terms and Conditions and as consumers we can be vocal on public domains such as XDA. The demand for Gingerbread was justified as all UK users purchased their handsets with the promise of it by Motorola's precious business partners. You won't even get a Thank You from me after what you put me through Motorola. Next ICS campaign.
I can't expect much of the USA tech news sites but UK tech sites have been awfully quiet about Gingerbread saga other than Techradar's Kate Solomon, having bigger balls than the male reporters, to make a reference about the forum thread being closed by Motorola. Thank you Kate.
"This will probably still irk the reams of users waiting to hear about the long-promised Gingerbread update for the UK - it's been out in the US for months now, and Motorola has taken the step of shutting down the forum thread on the subject." Kate Solomon (Techradar)
The following words became defiant words against Motorola during the last weeks.
Alcohol, Custom ROM, Samsung, Apple, HTC, LG, RIM, ZTE, and Nokia
Known as Atrix Lee on Motorola Atrix (Non-US) Forum.
Well said Lee.
I used to show my Atrix off proudly to friends and colleagues. Now I don't.
I bought HTC for my workforce and a Motorola Atrix for myself. I regret the Atrix choice.
I'm sure the vast majority of Atrix fans in the UK have now changed their opinions and many (like myself) won't be buying any Motorola products in the future. I think calls for honesty, decency, ethical behaviour etc., won't change Motorola's behaviour. It's a top down issue and the top simply isn't interested. The only way Motorola will change is by seeing an effect in their sales. So I urge anyone who is considering to buy Motorola products, to think again. Buy from a company that cares what you think and wants you as a customer 6 months later. That copmpany is without a doubt, NOT Motorola.
Let me explain the attached picture and the point of it. As you can see at the very top of the picture I am logged in to Motorola's forum using my Atrixlee4 account that was created the same day as when I took the screenshot. You also will notice a thread (second from the top) that shows atrixfury as the last active user in the same thread two hours prior to taking the screenshot. Here is the thing... the atrixfury account was registered by me and it was disabled for days before created atrixlee4 account. Since the last post of the thread wasn't created by me then that means a post must had been modified by atrixfury to be shown as the last active user.
What Motorola was modifying under my account? What sort of company would do that? There is a very good chance Motorola had used my other disabled accounts too but just caught them once.
I read. I agree with ConEdLtd, I would never buy another Motorola... EVER. By far the worst support known to mankind. Might once I get the chance move back to Samsung, at least they update their phones nowadays. There are unknown delays on the French Orange update for some reason, and they won't tell anyone on the facebook page... Go figure...
Am interested in how you flashed the Atrix to UK retail. I too have a T-Mobile Atrix which I have network unlocked. But when I use the Motorola software tool it doesn't give me the chance to download the UK retail package that I can then use in RSDLite tool, it just says no software update avaliable??
jonny-roger said:
Am interested in how you flashed the Atrix to UK retail. I too have a T-Mobile Atrix which I have network unlocked. But when I use the Motorola software tool it doesn't give me the chance to download the UK retail package that I can then use in RSDLite tool, it just says no software update avaliable??
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You can download the file from here. Then flash it using RsdLite tool. To download the file use opera instead please. With IE the site wrongly assumes you are trying to download multiple files at same time.
Please use these instructions as guidelines:
1. Backup your data
2. Perform a hard reset
3. Wipe the cache. If for any reason booting your phone normally after this stage then skip the Motorola account setup.
4. Use any machine but a machine with windows 64bit OS. Many people including myself having problems to get the phone to be recognised by rsdlite.
5. install Motorola's usb drivers
6. install rsdlite
7. Reboot the machine
8. Follow the instructions of rsdlite to flash the downloaded sbf file here
9. After the flashing please perform step 2 & 3 again just in case.
Good luck and please follow things with patience and at your own risks.
Related
Hello all.
I have decided to email Motorola informing them of my distaste for their practice of locking bootloaders. I think that if enough people do this, we could convince them to change their ways. So let's all email them! I'm including a copy of the email I sent to them. (PS, I know I have some grammatical problems, I was stupid and failed to proofread before I sent the email)
"Hello,
I would just like to express my disappointment with your company's decision to lock down the bootloader of the Droid X. I have had numerous Motorola phones, including the Zine ZN5 and the original Moto Droid. My family have been using Motorola cell phones for more than 15 years. It was my intention to purchase a Droid X within the next month.
That has all come to an end. Your decision to lock the bootloader is completely anti-consumer. It is not harmful to you at all to allow consumers to modify their phone. You may think that you are only alienating the hardcore developers, but that is far from the truth. I myself am not a developer at all, merely someone who enjoys customization of phones.
Not only are you losing myself and my family members, whom I often advise on phone purchases, as customers, but you are also losing a wonderful reference. Because I frequently change phones, many people come to me for advice on what phones they should purchase. I will no longer recommend any Motorola phone. Just today a co-worker asked if she should purchase the Droid Incredible or the Droid X. I told her that she should not support a company that needlessly restricts the use of a consumer's own property. In any other product but a cell phone, this would not be tolerated. Even in the computers made by Apple (the oft-lauded most restrictive companies), they allow the installation of alternate operating systems. Remember, these mobile phones you sell are really miniature computers.
Further, I know for a fact that this is not brought on by pressure from the telecoms. I previously worked with a company that was working to release an Android smart phone (though it seems unlikely to see the light of day at this point), and none of the telecoms we had worked with had any complaints of having unlocked bootloaders. This includes Verizon, on whose network the Droid X will be released.
You are not doing this to avoid warranty repairs on phones that had been improperly modified, because doing so voids one's warranty. This is something that all who install custom ROMs understand. There is no discernible reason for you to be locking these bootloaders. All you are doing is alienating your customer base.
I hope you understand that I am far from the only person who feels this way, and you will be losing many, many sales because of this. You had a chance to recreate yourself, and bring yourself back to the top of the mobile phone industry. You have shown that you care nothing about consumers, and do not deserve to regain your leadership position.
By doing this, you are proving yourself to be no better than Apple.
You can change all of this by releasing unlocks for the bootloaders of your phones, including the Droid X, and by not locking the bootloaders of your future phones.
Yours truly,
A former fan of Motorola smart phones,
XXXXXXXXXXXX"
aacrabtree said:
A former fan of Motorola smart phones
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You seriously put this in there?
Which email did you use? I think we all should email them.
[email protected]
Just remember to use different email titles. Otherwise they'll just mass delete. Just label it like "Complaint" or something generic.
If your minions haven’t let you know this day is coming, then you need new minions. I have made it very clear to Verizon and Samsung Customer Support over the last couple of months that if there was not a software update (preferably to Android 2.2) pushed out to the Samsung Continuum before yesterday then I would never buy anything with the Samsung brand on it ever again. Now that that has passed, let’s look back at the horrible failures you have made to this point.
The first thing that you did wrong was putting the Galaxy S brand on the back of the phone. This gave consumers the impression that this was one of your top end phones that would receive support and service.
Second, Verizon’s salespeople need to be instructed not to promise upgrades and future enhancements. Actually, I believe this started before the release of the product where there were promises of third party integration with the Ticker coming with the imminent Froyo upgrade. Again, giving us false hope with no intention to follow through.
In January you pushed out an OTA that broke the Ticker. Facebook and Twitter feeds stopped showing updates and we could no longer put in custom RSS feeds. But the Froyo upgrade was imminent, so we kept our mouths shut.
Then in April the Fascinate received its 2.2 update, which fixed many of the issues that we still have on the Continuum as well as all of the new features that come with Froyo. Our previous update had come out a week after the Fascinate OTA, so we figured our 2.2 upgrade was just around the corner.
And we waited about a month… And then we have gotten rather vocal as I’m sure you know.
But you have made it clear that you don’t care that you crippled your product then backed out on promises for updates.
I would like to spell out the repercussions of your actions.
Verizon, you have pissed off a small, but rather vocal portion of your customer base at a time when a slight shift in your fees allows a loophole to allow any of your customers to exit their contracts without paying an ETF. Let’s see how that goes for you.
Samsung, you have lost some customers for life. All of us loved your hardware and products, but this fiasco has soured many of us toward your brand. I, for one will never buy anything with the Samsung brand on it ever again.
There may yet be time to reverse our view of your companies, but at this point I believe it would have to involve Gingerbread, and soon. Best of luck.
Weudel
Amen brother, amen!
I posted this on here, my blog (broadcast to Twitter, Google+, and Facebook), Android Forums and as a note on Facebook sent to Verizon Wireless, Samsung Mobile, PC Magazine, Wired, CNET, Engadget, Android, Android Guys, Androinica, Android and Me, XDA-Developers, VzBuzz, Samsung USA, Sprint, T-Mobile, and AT&T...
Feel free to ditribute it to whomever might get something done here.
I hear you loud and clear! Not planning on purchasing any Samsung Android products in the future.
I'm not talking just Android... I'm not going to buy ANYTHING made by Samsung ever again.
Agreed
Did you see that their CTO (an Android friend) left for Citigroup?
saw that... maybe they'll go to WP7 or something now.
That's the only way you can do anything to a big corp. Never by anything made by Samsung that includes the iPhone (mostly Samsung parts) but the only problem is one person won't hurt them you have to spread the word brother. Spread the word.
Sent from my HTC INSPIRE using XDA App
Trust me... I've been spreading it...
-Sent from my Space-Time Continuum using the XDA Premium App
I also sent this to the Editor in Chief at Mobileburn.com
We on many message boards including XDA have been trying to get information regarding the Froyo release for Verizon's Samsung Continuum to no avail. Several of us have contacted Verizon and Samsung but have been given no real answers as to if the update has been made or if it will ever be made available to us. The Continuum community feels cheated. Most of us purchased this phone because it had the 'Galaxy S' name on it and assumed because this is Samsungs flagship line that it would be receiving updates like the other GS phones. I realize we are a small community but we still deserve answers be it from Verizon or Samsung. Please, if you can find the answers we are looking for. Don't let us be duped by Verizon and Samsung. We are loyal paying customers and we deserve to know the truth!
Thank you for any information you or your staff can provide.
-Justin Hegenbart
Jaizero - XDA-Developers.com
A shot in the dark but an effort none the less. =)
I know I may have some of my facts wrong here, just correct me if I'm wrong.
Since Google bought out Motorola Mobility a while back, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be using Motorola for the "Nexus" phones? Why would they want to team up with Samsung to make something they could do themselves?
Companies "bid" for the opportunity to make the nexus device. Google is afterall a corporate entity. Why would they want to screw themselves out of more money if it was there for the taking?
I do however think it will be better for Moto devices in the long run for updates..
TreyChristopher said:
I know I may have some of my facts wrong here, just correct me if I'm wrong.
Since Google bought out Motorola Mobility a while back, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be using Motorola for the "Nexus" phones? Why would they want to team up with Samsung to make something they could do themselves?
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I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe Samsung's patented the curved display and Google's got a fetish for that?
Regardless, I'm itching to see a Moto nexus phone. Samsung left a bad taste in my mouth with the Captivate, HTC always seems to have some sort of screen/multitouch issue, SE seems like a specialty phone kind of manufacturer, LG? Eh, I probably wouldn't mind the Thrill/3D, but they have yet to prove themselves.
Motorola? I realize there was this tiff about the bootloader, but I'd rather have good, consistent build quality than a lot of other things.
The deal has not yet gone through. Why don't people do any sort of research at all before asking questions? Shareholders are voting on November 17 if the acquisition will go through or not. Secondly, Google has stated many, many times that they will not touch MotoMobility at all. They only want the patents and will not make any changes to MotoMobility's business at all. Period. Also, Samsung makes high quality devices. There's a reason they've been chosen for 2 of the 3 Nexus devices and Moto has been chosen for none. Moto has sold 4.4 million total smartphones in each the last 2 quarters. Samsung sold 30 million devices in the last quarter alone including 10 million SGS2s without even debuting in the US, one of the largest smartphone markets in the world.
From my understanding, Google has not yet purchased Motorola Mobility. The Boards of Directors of both Motorola and Google have approved of the deal but there is a long procedure to be completed in order for this deal to actually go through.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14531859
xyrovice said:
I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe Samsung's patented the curved display and Google's got a fetish for that?
Regardless, I'm itching to see a Moto nexus phone. Samsung left a bad taste in my mouth with the Captivate, HTC always seems to have some sort of screen/multitouch issue, SE seems like a specialty phone kind of manufacturer, LG? Eh, I probably wouldn't mind the Thrill/3D, but they have yet to prove themselves.
Motorola? I realize there was this tiff about the bootloader, but I'd rather have good, consistent build quality than a lot of other things.
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I don't really understand people, honestly. Motorola has always put out good quality, 100% working phones. The bootloader is unlockable if you want to mess with your phone, but something like a screen issue isn't fixable unless you get a new phone.
edgeicator said:
The deal has not yet gone through. Why don't people do any sort of research at all before asking questions? Shareholders are voting on November 17 if the acquisition will go through or not. Secondly, Google has stated many, many times that they will not touch MotoMobility at all. They only want the patents and will not make any changes to MotoMobility's business at all. Period. Also, Samsung makes high quality devices. There's a reason they've been chosen for 2 of the 3 Nexus devices and Moto has been chosen for none. Moto has sold 4.4 million total smartphones in each the last 2 quarters. Samsung sold 30 million devices in the last quarter alone including 10 million SGS2s without even debuting in the US, one of the largest smartphone markets in the world.
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If Google isn't going to touch MotoMobility, then who is running the company? -.-
TreyChristopher said:
I don't really understand people, honestly. Motorola has always put out good quality, 100% working phones. The bootloader is unlockable if you want to mess with your phone, but something like a screen issue isn't fixable unless you get a new phone.
If Google isn't going to touch MotoMobility, then who is running the company? -.-
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The same people who are running it today. No one is being fired. It was a purely patent acquisition. MotoMobility will remain as it is today. As for the bootloader, it is not unlockable unless something huge leaks. How many phones have had their bootloader unlocked since the OG Droid? 2. The Atrix and the Photon 4g, which is basically an atrix for Sprint. That's it.
1. Google doesn't officially own Motorola Mobility Yet.
2. For those of you who think that google strictly bought Motorola for patents and are not going to take advantage of Owning the Cellular division and developing with motorola before other companies is on a cloud. Of course google isn't going to "admit" that they would do that cause that would cause a semi sorta monopoly so they "Say" they aren't going to do anything for plausible deniability. I mean really come on think about it...They Own a major manufacturer of cellphones and Just want Pantents....give me a break.
malickie said:
1. Google doesn't officially own Motorola Mobility Yet.
2. For those of you who think that google strictly bought Motorola for patents and are not going to take advantage of Owning the Cellular division and developing with motorola before other companies is on a cloud. Of course google isn't going to "admit" that they would do that cause that would cause a semi sorta monopoly so they "Say" they aren't going to do anything for plausible deniability. I mean really come on think about it...They Own a major manufacturer of cellphones and Just want Pantents....give me a break.
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You're absolutely delusional. Motorola is doing so much worse than the other Android manufacturers. They stand to lose a lot if they show any favoritism to Motorola. Samsung sold 30 million smartphones last quarter. HTC Sold 13 million. Motorola sold 4.4 million. Motorola is not a major seller of smartphones. Q2 rankings were apple, samsung, nokia, rim, htc, lg, motorola, huawei, zte, other. You have no idea how business works. Plausible deniability doesn't work here. It'll be as plain as day light if Google ever favors Moto.
edgeicator said:
You're absolutely delusional. Motorola is doing so much worse than the other Android manufacturers. They stand to lose a lot if they show any favoritism to Motorola. Samsung sold 30 million smartphones last quarter. HTC Sold 13 million. Motorola sold 4.4 million. Motorola is not a major seller of smartphones. Q2 rankings were apple, samsung, nokia, rim, htc, lg, motorola, huawei, zte, other. You have no idea how business works. Plausible deniability doesn't work here. It'll be as plain as day light if Google ever favors Moto.
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Dude seriously have you ever worked in a business and have any idea what goes on behind 99% of business's doors and the shady business that goes on? I mean seriously who is delusional thinking that motorola won't take advantage of being owned by google and vice versa. There would be a Major reason for Motorola to take advantage of that considering how bad they are doing in the market and of course it will be as quite as a mouse. Both sides would deny it until blue in the face but still won't stop either from taking advantage of each other. I mean hell just look at RIM or Apple or Android for that matter all of which are in some sort of lawsuit or another for infringement on this or that patent. Would be very easy to mask any favoritism at the moment with all the BS Lawsuits going on right now.
malickie said:
Dude seriously have you ever worked in a business and have any idea what goes on behind 99% of business's doors and the shady business that goes on? I mean seriously who is delusional thinking that motorola won't take advantage of being owned by google and vice versa. There would be a Major reason for Motorola to take advantage of that considering how bad they are doing in the market and of course it will be as quite as a mouse. Both sides would deny it until blue in the face but still won't stop either from taking advantage of each other. I mean hell just look at RIM or Apple or Android for that matter all of which are in some sort of lawsuit or another for infringement on this or that patent. Would be very easy to mask any favoritism at the moment with all the BS Lawsuits going on right now.
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Yea, you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Favoritism has nothing to do with lawsuits. They wouldn't be in trouble if they collaborated together. Fact of the matter is, HTC and Samsung already are on edge. They are being pressured from outside and within to switch away from Android as it is. Manufacturers that are cooperating with a software vendor do NOT want to compete with that same vendor on a hardware level. As you can see Android hardware manufacturers are not happy and I’m sure will be on the lookout for another mobile OS at the drop of a pin. Google would shoot themselves in the foot if they showed any signs of favoritism to Motorola. Face the facts. Google has little to gain from Motorola doing better at the expense of pissing off the far bigger Manufacturers of Android handsets. The only way Motorola can benefit from this merger is if Google favors Motorola other other manufacturers in regards to early source code access and preferential Nexus selection. Both of these would be painfully obvious to any other manufacturer.
Any hardware company (Motorola, Samsung, etc.) makes money by selling hardware, so they do not want to update software, they want to update hardware and use the new software as a selling point. Their ideologies already clash. Google wants to advance the Android ecosystem. Motorola simply wants a bigger share of that market.
The thing is, Google kind of had its hand forced in this. It's a fact that gets overlooked. Motorola basically started saying they were going to start suing the other manufacturers of Android. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that's a pretty ****ing bad thing for the ecosystem. This wasn't something Google thought of out of the blue. It's something that was honestly hoisted upon them. If they didn't stop Motorola, they would have started suing, other manufacturers would have started adopting WP7. Google doesn't want to lose its controlling grip over Android, and for good reason -- it's a money maker for them right now. By buying Motorola not only does it stop the potential for lawsuits against the other manufacturers, but it also stops the potential for Motorola to start producing WP7 phones as well. The patents were also a very sweet reason, but it wasn't the only reason.
Motorola was also threatening to create it's own private fork of android and it's own market a few months ago. Basically Motorola was looking to be bought. Apparently Microsoft was also interested.
edgeicator said:
Yea, you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Favoritism has nothing to do with lawsuits. They wouldn't be in trouble if they collaborated together. Fact of the matter is, HTC and Samsung already are on edge. They are being pressured from outside and within to switch away from Android as it is. Manufacturers that are cooperating with a software vendor do NOT want to compete with that same vendor on a hardware level. As you can see Android hardware manufacturers are not happy and I’m sure will be on the lookout for another mobile OS at the drop of a pin. Google would shoot themselves in the foot if they showed any signs of favoritism to Motorola. Face the facts. Google has little to gain from Motorola doing better at the expense of pissing off the far bigger Manufacturers of Android handsets. The only way Motorola can benefit from this merger is if Google favors Motorola other other manufacturers in regards to early source code access and preferential Nexus selection. Both of these would be painfully obvious to any other manufacturer.
Any hardware company (Motorola, Samsung, etc.) makes money by selling hardware, so they do not want to update software, they want to update hardware and use the new software as a selling point. Their ideologies already clash. Google wants to advance the Android ecosystem. Motorola simply wants a bigger share of that market.
The thing is, Google kind of had its hand forced in this. It's a fact that gets overlooked. Motorola basically started saying they were going to start suing the other manufacturers of Android. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that's a pretty ****ing bad thing for the ecosystem. This wasn't something Google thought of out of the blue. It's something that was honestly hoisted upon them. If they didn't stop Motorola, they would have started suing, other manufacturers would have started adopting WP7. Google doesn't want to lose its controlling grip over Android, and for good reason -- it's a money maker for them right now. By buying Motorola not only does it stop the potential for lawsuits against the other manufacturers, but it also stops the potential for Motorola to start producing WP7 phones as well. The patents were also a very sweet reason, but it wasn't the only reason.
Motorola was also threatening to create it's own private fork of android and it's own market a few months ago. Basically Motorola was looking to be bought. Apparently Microsoft was also interested.
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are you sitting on the board of directors of Google? no? do you have access to private information that pertains to Google's plans for Motorola? no? then i guess you have no clue what you're talking about and need to chill out. every single one of your posts is nothing but calling other people idiots and spouting information (without any hard evidence) about future events that people are just SPECULATING about. is it really that annoying to you for other people to have a conversation about possibilities?
Alcapone263 said:
are you sitting on the board of directors of Google? no? do you have access to private information that pertains to Google's plans for Motorola? no? then i guess you have no clue what you're talking about and need to chill out. every single one of your posts is nothing but calling other people idiots and spouting information (without any hard evidence) about future events that people are just SPECULATING about. is it really that annoying to you for other people to have a conversation about possibilities?
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It's called common sense and knowledge. Something 99% of this board apparently lacks. Google has stated MULTIPLE TIMES they won't favor Motorola over their other partners. Every single one of my posts has been backed up by hard numbers and articles. Name anything I have stated to be fact that hasn't been backed up with hard evidence. The person I am responding to insists that Motorola will somehow have backhanded deals with Google when it has been explicitly stated that there will be no benefit for Motorola over other manufacturers from this acquisition. Maybe if posters were somewhat intelligent, I wouldn't have to point out the multitudes of falsities, misinformation, and just straight up FUD they keep claiming.
edgeicator said:
It's called common sense and knowledge. Something 99% of this board apparently lacks. Google has stated MULTIPLE TIMES they won't favor Motorola over their other partners. Every single one of my posts has been backed up by hard numbers and articles. Name anything I have stated to be fact that hasn't been backed up with hard evidence. The person I am responding to insists that Motorola will somehow have backhanded deals with Google when it has been explicitly stated that there will be no benefit for Motorola over other manufacturers from this acquisition. Maybe if posters were somewhat intelligent, I wouldn't have to point out the multitudes of falsities, misinformation, and just straight up FUD they keep claiming.
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Sounds to me like you believe everything you read or what someone tells you. So if the President told you the only way to live was to jump off the Sears tower you would just blindly believe him and go jump off the Sears Tower even though common sense and logic would say wait if I do that I am dead. All I have been saying is Don't believe Everything someone tells you they will Do. Most corporations say One thing and do something completely different behind closed doors.
malickie said:
Sounds to me like you believe everything you read or what someone tells you. So if the President told you the only way to live was to jump off the Sears tower you would just blindly believe him and go jump off the Sears Tower even though common sense and logic would say wait if I do that I am dead. All I have been saying is Don't believe Everything someone tells you they will Do. Most corporations say One thing and do something completely different behind closed doors.
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Way to use a straw man argument. And as I explained earlier. There is a tiny upside to Motorola doing well to a huge downside if they were to get caught red-handed. The risk vs reward is tremendously imbalanced. You'd have to have 0 sense of business if you'd take that risk. The only reason Google did this was to take patents for defense and to defend their partners from Motorola potentially suing them with those same patents they just bought. If you can't see that, there's no helping you.
I could care less "who" makes it, but how about a Nexus phone WITH EXT_SD support already?...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
Closing the thread. Please keep the forums civil and respectful. Avoid personal attacks, arguments, and such at all costs.
Thanks guys!
So I chanced upon this news on Twitter: http://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_shut...php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I can understand that they want to concentrate on higher end devices, but why totally pulling out of Asia? They still have fans in Asia and they did not even try selling the Razr HD or something before coming to the decision. What was Google thinking there?
Also, Motorola SEA has said that they would continue giving customers support and warranty. However, after the news of Motorola's staff getting laid-off, people had been complaining that their questions were left ignored for days and they've yet to receive any replies to date.
(And to think I've still got a few months on my warranty)
It seems like a great excuse by Motorola not to upgrade the international atrix to ICS. Oh well, seems like I'll never be able to get my hands on the Razr HD
Opinions?
Sent from that Atrix.
I'll wait for reliable or official sources to confirm, but this would be quite drastic. BGR India, hmmm. I can't imagine they would pull out of China, where their phones are literally sold at every store in every city. While they have never been crazy popular, they seem to have always done well in sales volume. They just opened an official Motorola store at one of the malls in Guangzhou, so I wish I knew some Mandarin I could question the news coming out. Hopefully they are simply cutting down on the number of models they sell, and going to concentrate just on a few core phones. I would hate to see Motorola exit the market, especially now with Google's influence.
I suppose my next phone was like going to be from Xiaomi or Huawei, but if I could find a new Motorola in the next few months that can make me as happy as the Atrix, I would stick with them for their great hardware.
The Motorola Southeast-asian Facebook page has gone ridiculously silent, not even replying anyone in the last few weeks (other than updating their website and info). Customer support also dead.
Sent from that Atrix.
Hey,
I don't know anything about Asia as a whole, but in Israel at least, Motorola Mobility closed all their facilities and laid off all their workers. I think that it is something that came directly from google, as a way to cut their losses or something like that...
:cyclops:
tatperson said:
The Motorola Southeast-asian Facebook page has gone ridiculously silent, not even replying anyone in the last few weeks (other than updating their website and info). Customer support also dead.
Sent from that Atrix.
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They are always silent and not responding to queries. Their support is as good as dead. I am glad my warranty is about one month left.
Motorola stock ROM sucks and they just provide one pathetic and buggy update from Froyo to GB. Motorola has never been popular in SG, their reputation is really bad. Almost everyone is using iPhone or Samsung Galaxy phone. IMO, Google is trying to cut their losses. They are only interested with Motorola's patents. Haha..
I am sure it is to cut losses. But methinks Google is gonna try and bring USA back into the mix sooner or later. Pure speculation on my part, but Google does need to cut as many losses as possible before they start investing more here. Investing in the USA is very costly and a big uphill battle right now when you're competing against pennies on the dollar. No need to look farther than the nexus q. It was shunned before it was even released because of price and features. If america wants jobs, they need to buy home brew and see that Google is one big beta company and the features will come if you're patient. Not much of that in the USA either. Short term profits are more important than long term stability. See where that is getting us in many other markets?
need more high def music...
Update:
Although we are consolidating about a third of our facilities globally, and slimming our operation in India as you reported, we continue to have a significant presence in several key markets in Asia-Pacific in addition to Korea and Australia. This includes, among others, mainland China, which remains one of our main R&D hubs (and where I am based). We should be able to share more information once we’re further through the reorganization process, but Asia-Pacific is an important part of Motorola Mobility’s future.
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What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.
I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
Sent from my Atrix 4g MB860 running leaked official Motorola ICS
Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
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I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
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Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
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Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.
I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
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Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.