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Dear XDA members,
I am sure you have all observed the slew of attacks that are being perpetuated against the HD2 specifically, and the Windows Mobile OS generally. You have all read & responded to these people and might have observed the peculiar bands of Senior/Junior Members -whose too RECENT joining date is a clue- simultaneously bashing the HD2 and praising the iPhone, thwarting our delight in buying and using HTC's fine products which we have all known, used, and enjoyed for nearly a decade now.
You have all noticed this sudden but uniform "flame war", I know because I have; and you have all observed Genuine XDA members being rallied and engaged in mass, uniform, and disdainful complaining about WinMo and HTC. While it is our reasonable right to address HTC & MS with our problems, we must conduct our messages (and ourselves) in a civilized manner.
I only hope to remind you to be careful and not fall into this trap.
There IS a smear-campaign going on against both the HD2 and Windows Mobile. In truth, I am aware of several people whose primary profession is to perpetuate Internet propaganda, especially in active forums, blogs, and review sites. These individuals sell their services to companies & other individuals alike. They steal from us our brotherly spirit with their flame wars, and they feed us false information about exaggerated faults in our expensive gadgets.
In reality, all mobile devices have their faults; whether it be an unfriendly UI, lack of basic but important functionalities, erratic behaviors, etc...
iPhones, Androids, Nokias, and Winows Phones... we have all used them; we have each decided which best suits our needs, and we have each purchased what we judged best. Let no one criticize your choice or undermine your ability to decide for yourself! We are not here to measure which phone is best, we are here because we have purchased the best, and still, wish to improve it or customize it or even re-invent it!
Cheers
well i switched from the iphone to the hd2 and i don't think i'll be switching back anytime soon unless iphone fixes its major flaws...
do you know that iphone doesn't support multi-tasking?
what a deal breaker!
jeRrRKKKK said:
well i switched from the iphone to the hd2 and i don't think i'll be switching back anytime soon unless iphone fixes its major flaws...
do you know that iphone doesn't support multi-tasking?
what a deal breaker!
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LOL... I know mate, I gave mine away as a gift after one month! Its not for me at all and my personal, unquestionable preference is WinMo. I travel lots and need a Business phone: auther & edit documents, presentations, do my spreadsheet calculations, cut & paste accross running apps, make PDFs and fax them away, access my exchange email, use my digital certificates for security, etc... For me, personally, the iPhone was a delightful multimedia experience, but it just doesn't cut it!
shirreer said:
Dear XDA members,
I am sure you have all observed the slew of attacks that are being perpetuated against the HD2 specifically, and the Windows Mobile OS generally. You have all read & responded to these people and might have observed the peculiar bands of Senior/Junior Members -whose too RECENT joining date is a clue- simultaneously bashing the HD2 and praising the iPhone, thwarting our delight in buying and using HTC's fine products which we have all known, used, and enjoyed for nearly a decade now.
You have all noticed this sudden but uniform "flame war", I know because I have; and you have all observed Genuine XDA members being rallied and engaged in mass, uniform, and disdainful complaining about WinMo and HTC. While it is our reasonable right to address HTC & MS with our problems, we must conduct our messages (and ourselves) in a civilized manner.
I only hope to remind you to be careful and not fall into this trap.
There IS a smear-campaign going on against both the HD2 and Windows Mobile. In truth, I am aware of several people whose primary profession is to perpetuate Internet propaganda, especially in active forums, blogs, and review sites. These individuals sell their services to companies & other individuals alike. They steal from us our brotherly spirit with their flame wars, and they feed us false information about exaggerated faults in our expensive gadgets.
In reality, all mobile devices have their faults; whether it be an unfriendly UI, lack of basic but important functionalities, erratic behaviors, etc...
iPhones, Androids, Nokias, and Winows Phones... we have all used them; we have each decided which best suits our needs, and we have each purchased what we judged best. Let no one criticize your choice or undermine your ability to decide for yourself! We are not here to measure which phone is best, we are here because we have purchased the best, and still, wish to improve it or customize it or even re-invent it!
Cheers
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Mate you have too much free time on your hands to be writing a post of this nature.
Here Here!
Keep on looking behind you guys....they're coming. Keep those firewalls up to date and lock your windows!
Oh and don't forget your medication.
Regardless of whether it's a smear campaign or not, there is clearly a problem with trolls.
I don't believe that's a campaign, but the recent trend of bashing Windows Mobile is alarming.
No OS and no phone is perfect, yet only Windows Mobile gets bashed all the time - though others clearly have at least as many flaws.
That's really saddening.
The amount of "I sold my HD2" threads, that typically contain only FUD and don't try to help anyone, is alarming as well.
Regardless of whether this is a campaign or not, someone should really do something against this trend and the trolls, because it really hurts the quality of the forum.
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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+100 for you sir
I know I'm new here and basically just started posting but I have heavily modified my HD2. I'm in the usa and imported my HD2 from the UK. I dont even miss 3G...I just connect to WiFi everywhere I go anyway. I have had every iPhone since it came out in 07. 2G, 3G and finally the 3Gs. I switched to the HD2 because I wanted what the iPhone lacked. I even Jailbroke all my iphones and they still were not as good as this phone is. The iphone did a whole lot more once jailbroken; ie.. Theme, Tether, Multitask but it still wasnt enough for me. The iphone is completely 1 dimensional! I liked it for what it was, but I love this phone! and using this site made it that much better. So a huge shout out to all you devs out there! Bottom line is the iPhone just sucks and it is a Yuppy phone, everyone has one and they think they are sooooo cool that they have one. The HD2 is the best phone on the market. Hands down.
I've been using these things for years... and the more popular these devices get, the more accessible they are to the general public, the more people demand help or think they have a right to it...with trivial little things!
The iPhone is just for those sort of people. Thinking that they have an iPhone (which, OMG is a SMRT PHONE, I R A GEEK NOW! I R COOL) because it's what is 'trendy'. Not becuase they will even use a quarter of it's functionality!!!
I have watched the questions on these forums get dumber and dumber. They say there is no such thing as a dumb question... I really beg to differ. I see some doozies on here of late to the point when I have to convince myself that they are trolling....or i'll loose faith in humanity.
I'll stop here as I don't think I have a coherent argument or statement.
Thankyou for indulging me in my rant.
I'm going to go find some more iPhone zombies and make them jealous of my HD2....
I assume you are not "general public" but some deity with divine right to own a WM device over others?
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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Awesome! *thumbs up*
hawrai68 said:
I assume you are not "general public" but some deity with divine right to own a WM device over others?
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LoL. You betcha, sunshine.
I'm gonna take EVERY oppertunity to laud it over anyone, cause my phone choice totally defines me and proves my worth to others, don't ya know...
Sheesh....
kruegz said:
cause my phone choice totally defines me and proves my worth to others, don't ya know...
Sheesh....
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hmmm scary. I would have thought there were slightly better ways to prove your worth to others than a mobile, but each to their own hey.
isn't this the same as http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5121561
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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VERY VERY wrong.
1) It happens almost never that someone creates a thread called "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" though those people are definitely the majority here.
2) Why should there be an exclusive forum for people who love their devices, when people like you are allowed to create countless threads bashing those devices?
3) No, it's not okay to let off steam, unless it's within a thread that exists for this purpose (note: there should be max. one such thread!). Opening threads for things that have already been posted is not allowed, but that's exactly what you are doing!
So what's the conclusion?
1) We, who like our devices, don't go to iPhone forums and tell people that we hate iPhones. We don't because doing so is sick. However, lots of people in this forum come here to tell everyone how much they hate their HD2s. There's clearly something wrong!
2) Countless threads are created saying "I hate my HD2", though the haters clearly are a minority. What does that tell us about those people? Apart from the fact that it's not allowed to create new threads for things that are already there, we must also ask ourselves why people who like their devices don't feel the need to tell everyone, but people who don't like them must tell everyone. To me, that's a clear sign that there's something wrong with those haters or that there are some trolls here.
3) Threads that are created solely for the purpose of "letting steam off" do not help anyone! Of course people must be informed about flaws, BUT it doesn't help anyone when lots of threads are created for the sake of complaining about flaws that are already well-known. A thread must either inform or seek for a solution, threads created only in order to complain about or bash something are useless and hurt the quality of the forum.
hawrai68 said:
hmmm scary. I would have thought there were slightly better ways to prove your worth to others than a mobile, but each to their own hey.
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Methinks your sarcasm detector needs adjusting, matey.
maati said:
VERY VERY wrong.
1) It happens almost never that someone creates a thread called "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it".
2) Why should there be an exclusive forum for people who love their devices, when people like you are allowed to create countless threads bashing those devices?
3) No, it's not okay to let off steam, unless it's within a thread that exists for this purpose (note: there should be max. one such thread!). Opening threads for things that have already been posted is not allowed, but that's exactly what you are doing!
So what's the conclusion?
1) We, who like our devices, don't go to iPhone forums and tell people that we hate iPhones. We don't because doing so is sick. However, lots of people in this forum come here to tell everyone how much they hate their HD2s. There's clearly something wrong!
2) Countless threads are created saying "I hate my HD2", though the haters clearly are a minority. What does that tell us about those people? Apart from the fact that it's not allowed to create new threads for things that are already there, we must also ask ourselves why people who like their devices don't feel the need to tell everyone, but people who don't like them must tell everyone. To me, that's a clear sign that there's something wrong with those haters or that there are some trolls here.
3) Threads that are created solely for the purpose of "letting steam off" do not help anyone! Of course people must be informed about flaws, BUT it doesn't help anyone when lots of threads are created for the sake of complaining about flaws that are already well-known. A thread must either inform or seek for a solution, threads created only in order to complain about or bash something are useless and hurt the quality of the forum.
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Doh! I wouldn't go to an iPhone forum slating the iPhone because I don't own one. I do, however, own an HD2......and therefore come to this forum. Yet another lame argument!
No, your argument is lame! I had an iPhone and I hated it, but I didn't go to iPhone forums telling people that I hate it, because only psychologically disturbed people like you do so.
And what is even worse, telling people how much you hate your HD2 has been the ONLY thing you've been doing since you registered to this forum. This is really sick.
My argument is totally valid. It's just you not being smart enough to understand it.
This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.
I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....
The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant
I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here
willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
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In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....
Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product
I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.
I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.
Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.
Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.
maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?
s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.
I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.
No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol
Its almost humorous at how many negative threads there are, or how many threads start out positive and you have people come in and bring them down, I have never seen a forum this pissed off EVER, BUT I can say that we as Sprint customers are getting a little tired of the **** we are dealing with, I like many of you just want CTIA to come, I mean the Echo is cool and all but not for me. Also people are ripping on the new Pre 3, I for one am interested, so what if it has 1 core.... SERIOUSLY it may just be me but isn't functionality override the e-boner you get lol?
That said, I will now hide behind my stone wall.
Not going to lie... I love Android, and love my Evo... but the Pre 3 and a TouchPad make for a killer combo... I liked their presentation today.... HP is doing something right, and that is the fact that they are releasing a WiFi only version before their other variants.
As far as the negativity going on in XDA, don't sweat it. There are trolls everywhere online. Best to simply ignore, or if you can't, ask Shift to give out the "thunderous back hand" of his!!!
I think a lot of people in here forget that not all of us grew up screwing with this stuff. That rooting and flashing and all that aren't second nature to us. And I understand some of the sarcasm given to certain posts... though a lot of people are rude to a belligerent degree.
I've opened dumb threads and had my ass handed to me from people, understandably. But sometimes it crosses the line from being facepalmed to being gangraped.
The funny thong is I have noticed the opposite that you posted. Compared to a couple other forums I check out this one has a lot more comradery and people can usually ask a relevant question without too much high school attitude.
yes, there is still a decent amount of rudeness but for as frustrated as a lot of the more informed members can get with the barrage of stupid questions, things tend to stay pretty civil.
Plus, we can always blame shift
I think the Echo announcement is the cherry on top. People have been pretty down on Sprint since their Premier and discount policy chances, and the new $10 tax on any smartphone. =/
It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Agreed...well said...both of you.
I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.
I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.
What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).
BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.
Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.
Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?
Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.
This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that. right. there.
Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.
The Atrix is a great phone. This is the reason I bought this phone, and the reason many of you bought this phone. If I have learned anything from technology it would be that EVERYTHING has its short commings as well as good things. Because of the technological advances we have been "trained" to think every bit of technology is or should be perfect and if it is not, simply complain about it. "Back in the day" people would have though black magic is at work looking at a phone such as the Atrix; yet we still complain about it all the time. This is a dual core phone for Christs sake! As long as the PHONE does it job and allows you to use its PHONE functions, it has done his job and you should be satisfied. This is a smart phone, it is smart - it does what you need but when it loads 0.002 seconds slower than you except you bi--h and complain about how you're going to return it and how it was the worst phone you've ever had. Please...people...if the phone does what you need it to do in a timely manner, it is fine. I and several other xda brethren are sick of hearing all your sad "goodbye Atrix" stories. Just stop it, if you have a legitimate complaint please call Motorola or use the official Motorola support forum.
Thanks for reading!
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Well said, I often read the same bullcrap from Nokia N900 users over at the Maemo forums whining about their devices. Does my head in.
Amen brotha!
Here's an example for your amusement.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54773
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52479
I was pointed to the board by a friend after I grew tired of my iPhone and decided to go to android, I spent weeks researching and decided that the Atrix was the best phone for me at the time, and guess what... It was. I love it and have no doubt in my mind I bought the right phone. I have grown tired of all the negative attitudes on this board, the flames and trolls, and nay sayers.
I wish they would just leave the board so those of us that enjoy our Atrix can see what can be done and what we will be able to do with it.
A healthy discussion is one thing but I grow weary of the rhetoric and hyperbole that passes for argument here.
I want people to keep *****ing and leaving!
I love reading the responses to the OP's parting comments. Usually hillarious and help me get through the day!
Well said. I agree with your post, and myself am a little dismayed at the attitude of people here. I havent seen this much complaining on previous technical forums I've gone to. That said, this is the internet and so its really to be expected that people will act like this on some level. Its sad, but there's not much that can be done about it.
Dunno how this thread contributes in anything it only triggers flaming.
Thread closed.