Database Users

Why close a discussion thread?

mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums.... if that had been a "we love HTC thread" would that have been closed?
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissastifaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
mikechannon said:
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturaly attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get usefull threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.

Monty Burns said:
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums....
We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker.
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissatisfaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction.
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturally attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get useful threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer.
Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response.
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
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If you have doubts about this device then don't buy it. You will be severely disappointed. If you have not taken time out to test drive one before putting your order in then, with respect, more fool you.
Finally, moderators on here bend over backwards NOT to close threads or be seen as censoring debate. However we have to keep a balance and if, in our judgment, a thread is getting out of hand or no longer has any value nor serve any useful purpose then it will be closed.
All the best,
WB

as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).
"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."
Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?
"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."
I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!
"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."
*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.
"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."
Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.
Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....
"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."
Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?
Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.
Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.
also..
Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:
mikechannon said:
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.
Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?
Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!
And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??)

My opinion.
Here's an example of 2 threads.
MY HD2 IS THE WORST FONE ON THE PLANIT
I bought this fone for £x000 dollars and it should do everything I can ever imagine, rite out of the out of the box. I am disgusted that HTC expect ME to fix their problems.
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SMS didn't send
Hi everyone.
I tried to send a text message to my friends earlier and it's stuck in my outbox. Does anyone know why this might be? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I should do about it?
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This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.

johncmolyneux said:
Here's an example of 2 threads.
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
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More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.

Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.

Monty,
You are a Londoner eh? I should have known. You lot are nothing but trouble makers!
First off sorry about the quotes within quotes; didn't realise it stopped you from quoting back. Now that I do...
OK, lots in your post that I could come back on in detail but I won't because I'm the sort of chap that likes going forwards, not looking back in self pity or whatever.
The one thing that you have suggested, and you are not the first, is that we think on somewhere where people can let off steam WITHOUT cluttering up the forums. As you know there is some work going on as to how best we can restructure the place to make it better. Can I ask you to be a little patient while all this gets worked through.
In the meantime, think on the following:
- Help us to support people who need and want help and please be robust about those that don't but just fancy a moan and upsetting people on here without ever really wanting to seek help or to help themselves (the word Troll comes to mind).
- If you look at the Development & Hacking forums you will see that Development is stronger than ever and does not change what this place is all about. The work of the chefs is recognised and appreciated, and you can argue that is also development so 2-0 there.
- Lets all try to be a little adult, constructive and get along a little. I can tell you that, from a Mods perspective, we really want to be doing other things to make people's lives on here better rather than spending time closing threads down because people just can't have a little respect for each other. I often wonder whether anyone ever reads the forum rules.
Finally thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow re this thread and not going off the rails and getting it closed.
WB

jakem said:
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
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I totally agree mate (hence the support in said thread raised by [★] yesterday.)
I find this site a ridiculously valuable source of information when I need help with my phone, and I find it disheartening to have to wade through complaint after complaint just in order to get to constructive discussions.
If I wanted to live in troll city, I'd pack all my stuff into boxes; call a removals company; do some browsing of estate agents and property letting agents; check the reputation of the areas I was interested in and then guess what.... MOVE TO TROLL CITY!
I'm a placid guy generally, but some posts really make me struggle to just not tell the OP where to go.
+9999999 recurring to real constructive users of this site.
-9999999 recurring to trolls (and we know you don't think you're a troll, but you are.)

Monty Burns said:
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
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If 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms then they should definitely speak their mind. They would be wrong though to go to a forum that supports uses of brand x condoms and slate them. A support forum is for support.

OK first, no idea who Martin is. (Its Monty spelt the wrong way - doh)
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!

Monty Burns said:
OK first, no idea who Martin is.
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
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I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )

To be fair, those "I hate this phone" ranting type threads really do spiral into a hate fest or at least the few I've seen. If a topic is interesting and you comment on it, and go back later to see how it develops when all that is left is just insults, it has no use to most if not all.

johncmolyneux said:
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
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Argh! I'm not a god!!! (although I think I am, with my size 9 shoes... bow down before me!)
Seriously, maybe a good idea. I guess in an odd way this may complement (orb3000s?) the other thread vote about should it be HTC or not site? We don't know you server statistics of course but, we can hope that we can get to the stage where we can give our opinion on HTC honestly..... ( i wanted to deleted that and not type it as its not fair, i think we can, mostly ).
In my view its like a really cool manopoly. The games fun to play for almost all of us (i may/may not include myself in that after 2 years HTC abscense on next Friday) but for some it really sucks cos they keep losing.
I would think that moving it to an adult discussion of the real benefits as us users see if you become "open" but, we have no idea of the server costs... only you guys do.
(you do of course know that pressure will mount and mount and mount with regards to non-HTC phones. Your not silly Samsung, LG, Acer.... to name but a few know that the serious money is in smart phones in the next few years, not feature. In Slough o2 test 150-200 meg 4g phones a couple of weeks ago )

From what I understand, this is a developers forum. i.e. look to the potential rather than to the faults as is.
There are far too many distracting threads along the lines of "the virtual keyboard is killing me", "my wife left me because of the battery life", "the pink camera issue made me kill my neighbour". These type of threads may have valid points but they are all a bit melodramatic and really don't serve the purpose of the forum very well as they fan the flames of discontent rather that rise to the can-fix mindset. Despite what the trolls (for want of a better word) might like to say, this isn't a fanboi site, it's for those who realise a problem and want to solve it, simply just improve things, or just want to tweak things just because they can! I'm sure most of us here are all too aware of the shortcomings of Windows mobile software, just as we recognise the potential & strengths of this platform.
Speaking as a self-confessed technophile I will admit to spending an not inconsiderable amount of hard-earned money on utter crap i.e. gadgets that promised so much, yet delivered so little or were simply just badly executed. The HD2 is non of these, it's a stunning piece of design & engineering. It's not perfect, for example: the sharp edges of the camera lens annoy me a little, but it doesn't induce a desire in me to vent my spleen to the world.
I'm optimistic, I hope to survive longer than my HD2 and maybe via this forum HTC will hear my concern for this non-life threatening design flaw and engineer a more ergonomic lens cover for the next mobile phone I get. If they don't, it will undoubtedly leave a microscopic void in my life, but I'm strong enough to move on and no doubt the HTC designers will burn in hell for their tardiness.
xda-developers is what is says and is a great community that helps us get the best from these intriguing phones, so please diss the efforts of those who contribute and recognise that enthusiasm is a far better fertilizer for technology than manure.
Besides that, looking at my HD2 I've just noticed that it's going to be wet & windy at "My Location" tomorrow. That's fifty miles away and I'm not even going there, so it's a win for me!

We are our own worst enemy

It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Agreed...well said...both of you.

I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.

I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.

What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.

I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).

BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya

This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.

Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?

n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
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It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.

Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?

Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.

n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.

This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.

I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"

Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that. right. there.

Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
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Click to collapse
Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.

Nobody cares!

The Atrix is a great phone. This is the reason I bought this phone, and the reason many of you bought this phone. If I have learned anything from technology it would be that EVERYTHING has its short commings as well as good things. Because of the technological advances we have been "trained" to think every bit of technology is or should be perfect and if it is not, simply complain about it. "Back in the day" people would have though black magic is at work looking at a phone such as the Atrix; yet we still complain about it all the time. This is a dual core phone for Christs sake! As long as the PHONE does it job and allows you to use its PHONE functions, it has done his job and you should be satisfied. This is a smart phone, it is smart - it does what you need but when it loads 0.002 seconds slower than you except you bi--h and complain about how you're going to return it and how it was the worst phone you've ever had. Please...people...if the phone does what you need it to do in a timely manner, it is fine. I and several other xda brethren are sick of hearing all your sad "goodbye Atrix" stories. Just stop it, if you have a legitimate complaint please call Motorola or use the official Motorola support forum.
Thanks for reading!
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Well said, I often read the same bullcrap from Nokia N900 users over at the Maemo forums whining about their devices. Does my head in.

Amen brotha!

Here's an example for your amusement.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54773
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52479

I was pointed to the board by a friend after I grew tired of my iPhone and decided to go to android, I spent weeks researching and decided that the Atrix was the best phone for me at the time, and guess what... It was. I love it and have no doubt in my mind I bought the right phone. I have grown tired of all the negative attitudes on this board, the flames and trolls, and nay sayers.
I wish they would just leave the board so those of us that enjoy our Atrix can see what can be done and what we will be able to do with it.
A healthy discussion is one thing but I grow weary of the rhetoric and hyperbole that passes for argument here.

I want people to keep *****ing and leaving!
I love reading the responses to the OP's parting comments. Usually hillarious and help me get through the day!

Well said. I agree with your post, and myself am a little dismayed at the attitude of people here. I havent seen this much complaining on previous technical forums I've gone to. That said, this is the internet and so its really to be expected that people will act like this on some level. Its sad, but there's not much that can be done about it.

Dunno how this thread contributes in anything it only triggers flaming.
Thread closed.

To whom it may conscern...

Why is that every little wining brat comes here to “complain to Samsung” and tell XDA users their next will be WP7, iOS or what not!?
Here’s a simple walkthrough if you want to complain:
If it’s about the Galaxy Hardware, complain to Samsung
If it’s about the fact that you don’t have this or that on android, complain to google.
Here, well, it’s about customizing the device. So if you have certain issue with a certain release, REPORT TO THE DEVELOPPER, and please do it in a kind and well mannered way, those guys do it for free on their free time.
And if you just think it’s a piece of no good monkey crap, SELL IT AND BE DONE WITH IT… nobody likes a wining brat…

Some kids enjoy being trolls, because they are starved for attention. It's a shame that anyone would want to troll a place like XDA...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium

While I'm with you and don't complain, there is a reason people do it:
1. They feel like someone is actually listening (case and point by you starting this thread), whereas Any company, whatever brand don't listen until there is media attention to the fact.
2. They don't want to feel like they are the only ones and want to feel supported or justified.
As I said I agree with you, but you are no better unfortunately. You see, they are complaining, but you are also complaining about them. What's the real difference here?
You tell them to be quiet or leave, but you could also do the same and not dignify their statements/complaints with statements/complaints of your own.
At the end of the day, it's human nature to complain, but it's also up to you/us to choose how to respond to people that do complain. And in this case, there are some things better left unsaid. By choosing not to respond to them will not justify them.
Just playing devils advocate here. But you have to ask yourself what's worse? Them complaining or your response. Their intention was to strike a nerve.
Mission accomplished I'd say.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk

Nokia 1112 Wins

I think Samsung do pay attention to what happens here, they are connected slightly more closely with the developer community having hired a number of developers and teams from here. I'm pretty sure that they get alot of feedback of bugs and faults in those "leaked" roms that are released every so often.
Anyhow, this part of the forum is dedicated to Samsung phones. If one guy complains about something and since this community has tons of members who use Samsung phones, who may also have the same gripes, it becomes slightly easier for your problems to be heard and hopefully corrected, especially if Samsung know its affecting alot of its future and current phone buyers.

There's a world of difference between those 2 things:
reporting something (bug, issue) in a well mannered way and asking for a correction or a way to fix it
or
Winning about how much samsung/SGS/Android sucks, telling you'd never buy another SGS/Android device againt and affirming that samsungs sucks because they haven't released ICS yet...
You see the difference there, reporting and being proactive or winning just to get attention

t1mman said:
There's a world of difference between those 2 things:
reporting something (bug, issue) in a well mannered way and asking for a correction or a way to fix it
or
Winning about how much samsung/SGS/Android sucks, telling you'd never buy another SGS/Android device againt and affirming that samsungs sucks because they haven't released ICS yet...
You see the difference there, reporting and being proactive or winning just to get attention
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Click to collapse
I'm not advocating bashing for the sake of it, it's just sometimes you have to do a bit of a song and dance to get heard and if you have a problem and have enough people complaining about it your more likely to be heard. But yh I agree whining for the sake of it is annoying. One thing I've seen alot of on other forums and blogs is people buying $100 off contract android phones, then comparing it to a $800 Iphone and then declaring that android sucks because they don't get as good an experience.

NEVER BUY A HONOR PHONE - heres why.

In the beginning I would like to present you my device and experience with Huawei, I am a smartphone geek and I had many devices in my life, and the most sentimental hate I have about is Huawei, I bought my favorite Honor 7, 2-3 months after it was released, Huawei was something new for me because in those days the "flagship" Hisilicon kirin 935 in 2015-16 was cool and new, not to mention fast charging, ar blaster (remote control), 20 Mpix camera with HDR and slow-motion recording at 60fps, revolutionary thermal construction, "Hey Honor" head control, audio + Hi-Fi, several annual updates of new functions and Android from version 5.0-6.0 until ... until the moment Huawei shoves its "sales system" of new devices, in previous device brands in which I sat I had an impression that my device is "on time" but in Huawei is quite the opposite and here it gets worse. Users of Honor 7 know that the last update of Honor 7 was in November 2017. (version B396). In brief, I will tell you one thing: Huawei gives a fu** about us, even if Ren Zhengfei is reading this, let him understand that we are awake. Every device that you release and is supported until the end of "materialistic" two years, put our Honors in the trash can which means that since the last update the device gets, youre phone starts to get boring and older which brings you to buy a new Huawei, but wait a minute, I just bought my honor 2 years ago and it's not good anymore? Naturally, we look at the internet why we do not get new upgrades where everything becomes clear the processors produced for Huawei are specially designed to work only for two years! Then Huawei tells us that you need a better version of Open Gl / CL and that the new EMUI will not go ble ble ble. And then we understand such a device with pseudo-strong peripherals it loses support after two years and spending hunderds of $ isnt worth it. So the question to Huawei is why you are making the same mistakes, why you are blocking the bootloader, and why EMUI is so limited, after all EMUI can compete with MIUI or Samsung Experience, just open up for people, update our devices more often so that they do not retire at the age of 2 years. It's all artificial. For now it is the silence before the storm because I hope that people who have reached to the end of this message will understand that people who purchased Honor 7,8,9,10 will be disappointed and how they will be treated after the warranty period and the end of Android support, where unfortunately the company counts money and not users.

Honor/ Huawei are only good for hardware, the software experience is not that good, plus their partnership with XDA was just a publicity stunt, I had thought that there would be more development for the Honor devices but it's just false promises, I would have never purchased Honor 8 if I knew that there won't be any ROM development for the device

LMFAO. Wow. You posted a whining session. Good for you. Hate to break it to you but Huawei is no different than any other company. Samsung, Apple, Sony. All the same. How about you go build your own smartphone so you can find something else to complain about. Claiming that Huawei specifically design their phones to only last two years. Are you daft?! Here's a little secret for you bud, the head of honor USA (his name's Chris) has been getting all kinds of responses from customers regarding the bootloader issue, but you wouldn't know that since you are so high up on your horse. So while you might think Huawei is some evil corporation designing a grand scheme to screw people, you couldn't be farther from the truth. People like you are exactly the reason XDA has gone downhill and it's sad.

agraceful said:
LMFAO. Wow. You posted a whining session. Good for you. Hate to break it to you but Huawei is no different than any other company. Samsung, Apple, Sony. All the same. How about you go build your own smartphone so you can find something else to complain about. Claiming that Huawei specifically design their phones to only last two years. Are you daft?! Here's a little secret for you bud, the head of honor USA (his name's Chris) has been getting all kinds of responses from customers regarding the bootloader issue, but you wouldn't know that since you are so high up on your horse. So while you might think Huawei is some evil corporation designing a grand scheme to screw people, you couldn't be farther from the truth. People like you are exactly the reason XDA has gone downhill and it's sad.
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I agree with you on this, everyone on xda whines but no one does anything about it. It is an open community and anyone can make a custom rom. It doesn't take much to make an aosp rom or even a custom EMUI rom. I just don't do it because people on here piss me off. They then go on a rant session like this like we owe them something. The community has lost respect for devs we make roms and they make us look like we own the software. They request things like I am free to do what you want me to do? NO I do it out of my own time that I have spare for everyone. But when I hear people get all cry baby mode and request stuff like they want it now it disheartens me from deving at all. This is why there is no development I just make my own rom the way I like it. At least I know no one will complain and moan after.

Meemo23 said:
This is why there is no development I just make my own rom the way I like it. At least I know no one will complain and moan after.
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I guess there is the option to ignore all the nonsense posts, upload your rom with no support and let people decide.
Either that or perhaps share your build scripts with those of us with some knowledge of oneplus and xperia builds, so we can build our own honor rom too
No demands intended, just trying to blag some build scripts

That's because devs aren't transparent with the users. When you just pop up with some software, of course, the users will think it's easy and takes no time. Developers are pretentious and users are ignorant. Users would have less to whine about if they actually understood what was going on half the time...That's why everyone got all this tech, but no one understands how to use it and just revert to complaining. It's only gonna get worst for devs/users down the line.
But shid, where a guide to make a custom EMUI rom? I'll make a rom for the culture.

jintrigger said:
That's because devs aren't transparent with the users. When you just pop up with some software, of course, the users will think it's easy and takes no time. Developers are pretentious and users are ignorant. Users would have less to whine about if they actually understood what was going on half the time...That's why everyone got all this tech, but no one understands how to use it and just revert to complaining. It's only gonna get worst for devs/users down the line.
But shid, where a guide to make a custom EMUI rom? I'll make a rom for the culture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learning to build a ROM isn't difficult. There are literally hundreds of courses you can take, but instead 99% of users are lazy and don't care to learn. Most developers AREN'T pretentious. They simply aren't required to teach others about what they do and how they do it. That's on the user.

agraceful said:
Learning to build a ROM isn't difficult. There are literally hundreds of courses you can take, but instead 99% of users are lazy and don't care to learn. Most developers AREN'T pretentious. They simply aren't required to teach others about what they do and how they do it. That's on the user.
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Click to collapse
How can you tell an average user that creating a rom isn't difficult? How can you determine how difficult something is to someone else? You just proved my point (considering you are a dev).....Cause that's pretentious. Sure you may be right...It's not my job as a developer to teach others how/what I do, but because development is treated as some easy to do thing we are here.
Once you understand something it's easier to appreciate it...User don't understand and if we keep giving them stuff with them understanding what they are getting you created spoiled users. I'm not saying go teach every user what a dev does, but transparency is important.

jintrigger said:
How can you tell an average user that creating a rom isn't difficult? How can you determine how difficult something is to someone else? You just proved my point (considering you are a dev).....Cause that's pretentious. Sure you may be right...It's not my job as a developer to teach others how/what I do, but because development is treated as some easy to do thing we are here.
Once you understand something it's easier to appreciate it...User don't understand and if we keep giving them stuff with them understanding what they are getting you created spoiled users. I'm not saying go teach every user what a dev does, but transparency is important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say it's simple because my 11 year old can code. Learning is easy if you put in the effort. I myself, have been developing on Android since the Motorola Cliq. So, a little over 9 years. I've directed tons of people (even a few here on XDA) how to go about coding and each is now doing it on their own. It's not pretentious (that's not the right word anyway) to conclude that ANYONE can learn with dedication and time. So, say I build a ROM then go into details about what I've done. Who does that benefit if 96% of users have no clue? So then I have to go in depth and explain what's going on. That's a waste of my time which I donate. I don't get paid to work on Android. It's all for fun. When it becomes work, I stop. There is an amazing website called GitHub where most devs upload their work and you can see what they're doing. If there's something you don't understand, then you ask. You can not expect anyone to give you anything. Like I said, ANYONE can build a ROM. I thoroughly encourage you to dive into ROM building of that peaks your interest. Sadly, majority of users don't care to understand. They just want free things and immediately.

agraceful said:
I say it's simple because my 11 year old can code. Learning is easy if you put in the effort. I myself, have been developing on Android since the Motorola Cliq. So, a little over 9 years. I've directed tons of people (even a few here on XDA) how to go about coding and each is now doing it on their own. It's not pretentious (that's not the right word anyway) to conclude that ANYONE can learn with dedication and time. So, say I build a ROM then go into details about what I've done. Who does that benefit if 96% of users have no clue? So then I have to go in depth and explain what's going on. That's a waste of my time which I donate. I don't get paid to work on Android. It's all for fun. When it becomes work, I stop. There is an amazing website called GitHub where most devs upload their work and you can see what they're doing. If there's something you don't understand, then you ask. You can not expect anyone to give you anything. Like I said, ANYONE can build a ROM. I thoroughly encourage you to dive into ROM building of that peaks your interest. Sadly, majority of users don't care to understand. They just want free things and immediately.
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Click to collapse
Transparency seems to work well enough with game developers. Like I said, seeing how something is made helps you appreciate it more. That doesn't mean a user needs to learn how to make a custom rom to appreciate the process, but we can agree to disagree on that note.
However, just because your 11 year old can develop (while awesome) doesn't make coding simple. I honestly hate when people make it seem like being a developer is just a simple and easy thing. Only a hobbyist or someone who lacks passion would make that claim. I mean I know kids who can write stories, but does that mean being an author is easy? I know kids who can draw well, but does that make being an artist easy?

jintrigger said:
Transparency seems to work well enough with game developers. Like I said, seeing how something is made helps you appreciate it more. That doesn't mean a user needs to learn how to make a custom rom to appreciate the process, but we can agree to disagree on that note.
However, just because your 11 year old can develop (while awesome) doesn't make coding simple. I honestly hate when people make it seem like being a developer is just a simple and easy thing. Only a hobbyist or someone who lacks passion would make that claim. I mean I know kids who can write stories, but does that mean being an author is easy? I know kids who can draw well, but does that make being an artist easy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it does. Writing a book means you're an author. Singing a song makes you a singer. These titles are often held to such a high standard that it makes no sense. If I draw a picture, I am an artist. I don't need a degree or even to have gone to an art school. Being a developer is easy. Those who view it otherwise are the ones that doubt themselves and aren't able to set realistic goals. Or again, they hold the titles to a ridiculous standard. XDA has offered courses for coding, and those are by far the simplest. Nothing is unattainable unless you yourself put that doubt in your mind.
Earlier, I wasn't stating that users need to learn to build ROMs to understand what's going on, so my apologies if it appeared that way. But if a user simply wants to learn the definitions of certain words, or what a process is then that user should on his/her own look it up or ask. It's genuinely that simple. While it may take time, everything is out there and available but again, nobody wants to put in the effort.
Game developers post changelogs. 99% of Android developer do the same. Fixed this bug where blah blah blah. Same thing. But believe me when I say that there are tons of things they don't post in the changelogs because they know users aren't going to understand it and well time is money.
Back onto the whole Huawei thing though. Yes, companies can always be more transparent. That's a given. But, they don't owe that to us. They owe us absolutely nothing. While personally I'd love more transparency, it's generally not that easy to do. Maybe it costs them too much to maintain all the devices, maybe they don't have a big enough dev team. IDK. But, to go straight to Huawei is screwing us over is well.. Moronic. When we as users boot our phones up we agree to their ToS before even using the phone for the first time. Hell, soon as you purchase the phone you agree to it. It's the same with every tech company. Ok, I feel like I wrote way too much. So, I guess this will conclude it for me. It was a nice change discussing things with you. You don't see that often on the internet unfortunately. Have a great day

agraceful said:
Actually, it does. Writing a book means you're an author. Singing a song makes you a singer. These titles are often held to such a high standard that it makes no sense. If I draw a picture, I am an artist. I don't need a degree or even to have gone to an art school. Being a developer is easy. Those who view it otherwise are the ones that doubt themselves and aren't able to set realistic goals. Or again, they hold the titles to a ridiculous standard. XDA has offered courses for coding, and those are by far the simplest. Nothing is unattainable unless you yourself put that doubt in your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think I see your point. I feel my friend sums up it up pretty well...
"Easy" is subjective. Everything is "easy" with enough experience. It was difficult when I was starting, but I loved it so I kept going. I'm both a hobbyist and a professional."
agraceful said:
Earlier, I wasn't stating that users need to learn to build ROMs to understand what's going on, so my apologies if it appeared that way. But if a user simply wants to learn the definitions of certain words, or what a process is then that user should on his/her own look it up or ask. It's genuinely that simple. While it may take time, everything is out there and available but again, nobody wants to put in the effort.
Game developers post changelogs. 99% of Android developer do the same. Fixed this bug where blah blah blah. Same thing. But believe me when I say that there are tons of things they don't post in the changelogs because they know users aren't going to understand it and well time is money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess when I really think about it, I really just want people to learn how to be inquisitive and teach themselves. I hate this lazy user era we are in...All this tech and barely anyone knows how to use it. No one benefits from it....It's aggravating.
agraceful said:
Back onto the whole Huawei thing though. Yes, companies can always be more transparent. That's a given. But, they don't owe that to us. They owe us absolutely nothing. While personally I'd love more transparency, it's generally not that easy to do. Maybe it costs them too much to maintain all the devices, maybe they don't have a big enough dev team. IDK. But, to go straight to Huawei is screwing us over is well.. Moronic. When we as users boot our phones up we agree to their ToS before even using the phone for the first time. Hell, soon as you purchase the phone you agree to it. It's the same with every tech company. Ok, I feel like I wrote way too much. So, I guess this will conclude it for me. It was a nice change discussing things with you. You don't see that often on the internet unfortunately. Have a great day
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Click to collapse
As much as I hate to say it, your right. I also enjoyed our conversation...I strive to carry out polite/constructive conversations with people on the internet. Normally I'm challenging people on their thoughts, but for once I was challenged and it made me reconsider some things. Thanks and you have a great day as well.

I have to say that if Huawei phone gets regular updates for 2 years than good fo you. My last Android phone by HTC had one update after release and that’s all. Somebody wrote here that every brand is doing the same. It’s not true. My very old iPhone 5s just got a new system like any other newer iPhones. It will get normal updates until end of iOS 11 in September 2018. 5s was released in September 2013, so 5 years of constant updates... On the other hand will you be able to live with one phone for 5 years ?
Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

rumpelst said:
I have to say that if Huawei phone gets regular updates for 2 years than good fo you. My last Android phone by HTC had one update after release and that’s all. Somebody wrote here that every brand is doing the same. It’s not true. My very old iPhone 5s just got a new system like any other newer iPhones. It will get normal updates until end of iOS 11 in September 2018. 5s was released in September 2013, so 5 years of constant updates... On the other hand will you be able to live with one phone for 5 years ?
Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk
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I guess we have been discussing Android phones.
BTW, it has been reported that iOS 12 would support iPhone 5s.

MT2-User said:
I guess we have been discussing Android phones.
BTW, it has been reported that iOS 12 would support iPhone 5s.
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Agraceful mentioned Apple. There is a really big deference in that regard between Android and other OS’s. Windows phone were also supported for a very long time. I think the cause of the problem that people do not care if they have newest google security updates, support is not good to advertise. What is or was good to advertise are the numbers. Screen size, pixel density, processor speed, aperture of the lens. Numbers are important but more important is software and developer support after you buy phone. Htc 10 had some minor flaws which were not polished at all because they did not care... Best phone with Android I had in that regard was Asus ZenFone 2. Asus did not update Android from 5 to 6 fo a very long time but 5 was polished with a constant updates, phone had a one or two month old security patches no older. I wonder how it looks in Huawei.
Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

I don't get it. They now have to update to new security patches and we have been promised Oreo and they are already testing in China.

agraceful said:
ANYONE can build a ROM
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Lol, well perhaps more people could try harder to learn, but wild generalisations don't really help anyone.
If you have family and friends in the arts or engineering etc, none of them know what a ROM actually is, nevermind to actually build one.
You are assuming a level of computing understanding that is just not as wide as you appear to believe.

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It would be appreciated if you guys can lower the tone a bit. There was at first a "polite/constructive conversation" but it derailed quite fast.
Not sure if your whole conversation has something to do with the thread topic, but please stay civil, any time.
Also, if you see posts which break the rules, please just report them, don't reply in threads.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result, what may be OK to say in your part of the world, may not be OK elsewhere. Please don't direct profanity, sexually explicit language or other offensive content toward Members or their work. Conversely, while reading posts from other members, remember that the word you find offensive may not be offensive to the writer. Tolerance is a two-way street.
..
2.3 Flaming / Lack of respect: XDA is about sharing and this does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) or rudeness. Flaming or posting with a lack of respect is unacceptable. Treat new members in the manner in which you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instructions when you can, showing them respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and / or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive and therefore, none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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The XDA forum rules: https://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
Thank you.
Wood Man
Senior Moderator

With all that being said, I, personally, will never buy a Huawei and some other brands phone again because they simply will not let people unlock the bootloaders.
"Announcement
To provide better user experience and avoid issues caused by ROM flashing, the unlock code application service will be stopped for all products launched after 2018-5-24. For products released prior to this date, the service will be stopped 60 days after this announcement.
Thank you for your understanding. We will continue to provide you with quality services.
2018-5-24
Huawei Device Co., Ltd"
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You can find that announcement when you log in here : https://emui.huawei.com/en/unlock_detail

sold out
Updates were taking forever, so I sold out honor 8.:good: