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Morning all!
I just wanted to say I'm a Sony Ericsson Ambassador based in one of the mobile network retail stores in the UK. If you have any questions you can't find the answers to either drop me a private message or send me something on twitter (SEyorkO2)
I'll do my best to get your questions answered and I'll also be posting information that I get my hands on (that I'm not forbidden to post )
I'm currently using the Arc as my primary phone and the Play as my bit on the side so these are my strongest subjects currently.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Due to lot's of questions coming through I'm going to write them all down and forward them onto the correct departments every Monday rather than constantly bombarding them. Once I get responses I'll post them at the bottom of this post.
ShaunD103 said:
Morning all!
I just wanted to say I'm a Sony Ericsson Ambassador based in one of the mobile network retail stores in the UK. If you have any questions you can't find the answers to either drop me a private message or send me something on twitter (SEyorkO2)
I'll do my best to get your questions answered and I'll also be posting information that I get my hands on (that I'm not forbidden to post )
I'm currently using the Arc as my primary phone and the Play as my bit on the side so these are my strongest subjects currently.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. Thanks for saying hi. Hoping to give you more questions when I get my SE XP (Xperia Play) back from service centre at SBE Limited.
Can you say if there are plans to integrate the PSN into the play or add trophy support?
Edit: Also there is a very cool PSN application for the android but is UK only. Do you know if there are plans to bring this app to the rest of the world? It has news, Blogs, friends and trophy list in it.
Edit 2: I have one more question. Who can we request a feature to? I love the Playstation app but I hate having to use three different launchers for my games. There is the Playstation app, the Pocket app and the normal desktop.
I would like the ability to add installed games to the Playstation app so I can slide the control pad and select any game I choose from the one that starts. So far some titles don’t show up there like the PSX games. I also have emulators that use the controls and would like that option. Or if sliding the controls down would give me a list of apps to run for instance a choice to run an emulator or the pocket app or the Playstation app. That would be cool.
ncaissie said:
Can you say if there are plans to integrate the PSN into the play or add trophy support?
Edit: Also there is a very cool PSN application for the android but is UK only. Do you know if there are plans to bring this app to the rest of the world? It has news, Blogs, friends and trophy list in it.
Edit 2: I have one more question. Who can we request a feature to? I love the Playstation app but I hate having to use three different launchers for my games. There is the Playstation app, the Pocket app and the normal desktop.
I would like the ability to add installed games to the Playstation app so I can slide the control pad and select any game I choose from the one that starts. So far some titles don’t show up there like the PSX games. I also have emulators that use the controls and would like that option. Or if sliding the controls down would give me a list of apps to run for instance a choice to run an emulator or the pocket app or the Playstation app. That would be cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll forward these onto my ADM and see if we can get some answers. WIth regards to the PSN intergration I believe there were plans for this before the play launched as we were told that the Play would have the same functionality as the Sony Ericsson Aino had. However now it all appears to be unofficial rumour.
I feel your pain regarding the multiple launchers for games and also the fact that they won't auto rotate while browsing through my selection.
We are constantly being told that both the Play and the Arc will be receving major new features with software updates so heres hoping for more playstation intergration. I'll see what I can dig up for you though!
are you serious? So it's not going to be tied into the PSN? What a load of ****...
We need better pc software, the sony ericsson pc suite is rubbish. Its like a cheap piece of software you get with a no brand piece of electrical equipment
and needs updating.
Any chance this will happen?
This reminds me of SamsungJohn from the Captivate section. Lol
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-josh- said:
We need better pc software, the sony ericsson pc suite is rubbish. Its like a cheap piece of software you get with a no brand piece of electrical equipment
and needs updating.
Any chance this will happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try MyPhoneExplorer Client
Simply explore your SonyEricsson or Android phone !
Connect your phone via cable, bluetooth or infrared and you'll be surprised how easy and efficient you can manage your phone with this compact software. Since it's first appearance MyPhoneExplorer evolved into the most popular freeware tool for SE-phones and is constantly extended by new features. Since version 1.8 MyPhoneExplorer supports also Android-based phones (connected via WiFi, USB cable or Bluetooth)
Features:
Adressbook - with direct sync to Outlook, GMail, Windows contacts, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, Lotus Notes and Tobit David
Organizer with calendarview and direct sync to Outlook, Google, Sunbird, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, Windows calendar(Vista), Rainlendar, Lotus Notes, Tobit David and net shared calendars (WebDAV, FTP, local)
SMS - archive, export, import, excessive messages,...
Filebrowser with cachesystem to minimize datatransfer, automatic photosync...
Set phoneclock based on atomtime
and much more. f.e.: calllists, edit profiles, control phone, memorystatus, phonemonitor,...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are we not getting PSN integration? No LBP or God of War as was said before launch?
Nhialor said:
Are we not getting PSN integration? No LBP or God of War as was said before launch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still hope for a LBP version every day
Anything SONY related regarding the Xplay is a joke, how long has the phone been out now & how many ps1 games are available or dedicated Xplay games released?
Op really does has big balls coming on here claiming to be from S.E.
Personally, I smell a Troll.
DeadlyDazza said:
Anything SONY related regarding the Xplay is a joke, how long has the phone been out now & how many ps1 games are available or dedicated Xplay games released?
Op really does has big balls coming on here claiming to be from S.E.
Personally, I smell a Troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only troll I smell in here is you...
The phone only been released for two months.. How many wii games were released two months after launch? Give it some time..
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
I bought the phone for emulators.
If you was hoping for it to be a proper Sony handheld system you should of waited to buy the NGP. (vita or w/e).
The Xplay is first and foremost an Android phone with Android and Gameloft games.
I didnt see any mention of titles like God of War or LBP being made for it. And if Sony Ericsson actually did claim this, i wouldnt of believed it anyway.
SE is not Sony.
SE is a London based/Swedish input company that works and is a division for Sony Japan.
It is a different entity from Sony.
Nhialor said:
Are we not getting PSN integration? No LBP or God of War as was said before launch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know where you ever thought we were getting PSN, LBP or God of War. They NEVER said anything like that.
dsswoosh said:
I bought the phone for emulators.
If you was hoping for it to be a proper Sony handheld system you should of waited to buy the NGP. (vita or w/e).
The Xplay is first and foremost an Android phone with Android and Gameloft games.
I didnt see any mention of titles like God of War or LBP being made for it. And if Sony Ericsson actually did claim this, i wouldnt of believed it anyway.
SE is not Sony.
SE is a London based/Swedish input company that works and is a division for Sony Japan.
It is a different entity from Sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you see, that's where you're wrong:
"Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB is a joint venture established on October 1, 2001[1] by the Japanese consumer electronics company Sony Corporation and the Swedish telecommunications company Ericsson to manufacture mobile phones. The stated reason for this venture is to combine Sony's consumer electronics expertise with Ericsson's technological knowledge in the communications sector. Both companies have stopped making their own mobile phones."
I'm still a firm believer that Sony will support this phone in ways. I'm not banking on them releasing amazing games and ps1 titles, that doesn't bother me. I have fpse for that, and the Android Market, Gameloft also does what I need it to. I'm just hopeful that we will get some decent games from Sony. But I'm happy having it for the emulators for the moment
I personaly could care less if sony does anything for this phone. I already got everything I want for it. There is enough to keep me happy for years to come.
Sent from my R800a using XDA Premium App
dsswoosh said:
SE is not Sony.
SE is a London based/Swedish input company that works and is a division for Sony Japan.
It is a different entity from Sony.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, that is why it is a "Sony Playstation" certified phone?
I bought this phone because it was Playstation certified and I fully expect Sony to support it with some great games “like” God of War. GOW port would be perfect and make it worth the purchase but I Have them both on my PSP so I don’t really care. But I do expect better than regular android games with improper button support.
ncaissie said:
Hmmm, that is why it is a "Sony Playstation" certified phone?
I bought this phone because it was Playstation certified and I fully expect Sony to support it with some great games “like” God of War. GOW port would be perfect and make it worth the purchase but I Have them both on my PSP so I don’t really care. But I do expect better than regular android games with improper button support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony "may" port games over, but highly unlikely.
Here's how i see it -
1) Ericsson (a swedish company) struck a deal with Sony and merged into a telecommunications company called Sony Erriccsson. They moved headquarters to London.
2) Sony Ericcson made a new phone with a playstation pad and got it certified by Sony Entertainment, Playstation division.
3) All Sony would of done was say "yep, make the phone half decent, get our brand on it and we will certify it".
I doubt anybody on the gaming side of Sony even got involved with the production of this phone.
This phone to me is a pure Android phone that can play emulators with a decent control pad.
Thats all i wanted. Thats all i will get. IMO thats all it is ever going to be.
You’re wrong. Sony wouldn't certify the phone without plans to support it. Ericson is part of Sony just like Sony makes Toys, TVs, among other things.
Yea but sony has bigger and better things out there, a playstation phone is whatever to them they brought it out to satisfy a certain crowd nothing more just you watch
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Righteous Joe said:
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read this? Doesn't sound right to be honest, not sure how rooting a tablet would differ in a legal sense from rooting a phone, they are near enough the same device after all. Ultimately it is your device that you own so you are free to do with it as you wish, its not as if you're rooting will have a major impact on anyone else. Unless you are caught installing pirate apps which would be considered as illegal.
Writing "I read [...]" and then not following up with a source means you completely lack credibility
Maybe you are referring to the decision cited in these sources
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3556740/copyright-dmca-jailbreak-unlock-mod-ruling
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...pyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
Take your time and read these sources
Also take your time to read up on material by senior xda members on the difference between rooting your device and unlocking your bootloader. It basically renders your "illegal to root" statement completely invalid.
Moving back to the Nexus 7, although the ruling is vague as #@!$ when it comes to tablets, your not forcibly breaking open the bootloader; its practically an on/off switch on the N7--Google is not coming after you.
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Jailbreaking is illegal for iPad.
But unlocking and rooting a Nexus 7 is a whole different story. You don't need a exploit, thus you are not breaking any protection, that is why it is legal.
At least in the EU.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
There is a further distinction that can be drawn. In the case of an Android tablet it is using an OS that is in effect free of any restrictions - so you can "copy the book, change it and publish it, provided you acknowledge the source", contrast this with Microsoft and Apple ......sue,damages etc.
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are incorrect good sir. The jaillbreaking exemption, which is no longer valid, didn't come about from a legal challenge. It was granted by the Librarian of Congress under the normal review process that takes place every three years. Furthermore, rooting phones for purposes of installing and operating legally obtained software is also exempted.
To address the OP, there's a lot of FUD going around about rooting tablets. The factual reality is that absolutely nothing at all has changed. Rest assured that, contrary to the sensationalism from some, the sky is in no danger of falling.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
If rooting a tablet (tablet computer) is illegal, then why don't we get only user account on windows (Administrator account locked) and when we install Ubuntu, why are we not only provided with our user folder and don't have access to anything else? It's exactly the same. I don't know why Android, as basically another one of oh-so-many Linux distros would be the only one, where you are not aloud to access root folders? Linux is open source, and it is your right to be provided with root access.
And since the purpose of root on Android is not installing cracked apps (you can sideload them with enabling 'outer sources'), I see absolutely no reason, why wouldn't it be legal.
Is editing your BIOS settings on PC legal? Again, I don't see why different rules would apply to desktop then to smaller version of PC (which smartphones pretty much are).
You bought the device, it's yours. Even if you decide to take it to another carrier, you paid them, you accepted the contract, you pay penalty in case you cancel the contract sooner. Just because I bought a car in Germany, doesn't mean it's suddenly illegal to drive it in Slovenia.
iOS is different issue. It's not open source, but again I don't see why jailbreaking would be illegal. Of course, installing cracked apps is different, but that's illegal anywhere.
This kind of garbage bugs be to no end... If I buy product A, then I should be able to do what ever I want to product A how ever I want, in regards to electronics. I bought the device, and no judge is going to tell me I can not unlock/root/etc it.
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
gnustomp said:
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
AFAinHD said:
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
when google comes after me for supporting their os with a law suit for changing my devices gui via root would be the end of days. So, yeah won't happen. sony and microsoft just ban people and their mac ip on their console i'd assume if they ever did do anything, they could ban you from market?
I Am Marino said:
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
AFAinHD said:
There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I see at least one reason, (which of course is valid only to some apps, not all of them), and that is usualy true to big games only:
- how long have you today to request reffunds for apps you do not like / want / can not use? 15 minutes? or is it even shorter time now? (I do not know how it is now, sorry, I only use free/ad-supported apps now)
- how long does it takes for you to download 2GB of app data? For me it is definitly a LOT longer time that 15 minutes...
- which one of these (above mentioned) apps offer some kind of trial or limited demo or something? How can you try such apps to find out whether you like it or not ?
Can you see the reason for why not to support such apps? Or at least in the first place? Of coure that it is better (for many reasons) to buy the app in the end if you like it. But you can not tell that if you can not evaluate it.
And you are wrong that these apps cost lest than $1 and thus are cheap (or at least I understand that this was something you were triing to say), most of such apps cost $5-$15, and that can be realy a lot of money if you are not from US, just because you earn $15 per hour does not mean everyone does, there are countries where people works whole day or even week for $15.
Oh, and just to be clear: I do not thing that pirating software is good thing, but sometimes it is the only way how to evaluate something. And you should be allowed do do that, right? Or would you buy a car without (at least) triing to sit in it?
All right, all right, we can just preted that the apps (or game or music or anything) which looks like we want (or need) it does not exists, but to be honest: Can you realy do that? Especially when there is no similar replacement? Or would you just happily pay any price the DEV asks, hoping that it will be usefull to you?
And one more thing:
Lot of people here is stating that court or local law or anyone forbids/encourages something - well this kind of information is totally useless if you forget to tell us in which country/region is that true.
And just to prove my point: there is a country that legaly allows downloading of audio files. Also there is a coutry that allows legaly to use pirated Operating system (namely that was true for Windows XP, not sure if they extended that somehow). Is that information usefull to you? I do not think so, unless you live there and in that case, you should already now...
..
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
AFAinHD said:
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that. As a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
This i totally agree with .This can stand for anything rather its music apps or even a drawing of a home done in Cad or even a book.. Think if you spend 2 years writing a Book. Then two days after its released you see it on a pirated site when its being retailed for 13.00 .While you have 2 years worth of bills piled up unpaid.Hoping the book sales. App developers often go thru this same thing. I like most everyone else did download some music in the past.NO longer would I do so . Never software and never reading material. Now if its not legal its not coming in our home or on my devices..If its to expensive the author or developer did not want to sell it.
Bottom line is support the people who Create the things that make your life enjoyable and easier to live. They wanna make ends meet to.. But its not really about the money its about what is right and wrong..
sgtpepper64 said:
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that, as a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Curious will we be able to use the market and use current apps (that would work with the interface)? I already have all the Gameloft games and others and have no desire to have to repurchase those, the GTA games, Cave shooters, purchased emulators, etc.
If it is exclusive content specific, I will just stick with the Excite 7.7 and its media dock that provides similar function already. Would like the OUYA for another room, but not if buying my same games again.
It's supposed to have support for the Play Store which mean you can login your Google account and download all your purchased games.
This is not the same as the Ouya store which is separate as far as I know.
Sent from XDA app
This would be a good thing to have, much like owning a PS3 and a 360, which system do you buy the new game for cause otherwise you are paying twice for the same game. Even though the games though the play store are not that expensive paying for the same thing twice sucks.
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
The thing on the rooted devices, to some degree, is counter to what they said in making the device open. Heck, they said people will be alloed to root without voiding the warranty. Yet, you can't access the store if you do. I understand the concern especially in regards to piracy. Personally, I don't think being rooted really makes it that much significant to get and use pirated games.
As to games you have already purchased, you can probably just side load them. Use something like ApkExtractor on your android with the game to get the game. You're just not going to have any of your saved games. If the root thing doesn't hold true, then you can probably use Titanium Backup to get it on your device.
With all that said, as raptir implies, not many games in the Google Play support gamepads. And the touch input on the Ouya controller is probably going to be limited, which may make trying to play something like Angry Birds very difficult.
Damn really, they advertise with the device being completely open but then block the Ouya store if you root it?
A deal breaker imo.
Then again, i wonder how the Ouya store will handle temporary unroots like you can with SuperSU.
Temp unroot ->use the store to install something -> root again.
Frag1le said:
... i wonder how the Ouya store will handle temporary unroots like you can with SuperSU.
Temp unroot ->use the store to install something -> root again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think about SuperSU or Voodoo RootKeeper. If it's true about the root thing, then the above and prior would be excellent ideas.
Like many here, some must have apps require root, so it's a bit of a harsh reality to realize Ouya is being root unfriendly, per se.
raptir said:
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait. So they are basically saying root and you dont have access to games or dont root and dont have access to custom roms and such. They are just going to drive people to piracy. I want root as well as games. The main thing I want to run on this is emulators and XBMC but if there are some good games out there I would spend a few bucks to buy them but not if I have to unroot this thing so I can buy them. I want the ability to over clock this. It has a heat sync and should run smooth at higher clock speeds and you have to have root to do this. I was thinking very seriously about getting one of these for my mother and for my grandmother as a Hulu, Netflix, digital movie device but If this is the case forget about it.
If you can not use Play, this makes more sense for their model, but seems they will lose as many customers as they gain with this approach. I think most people will naturally assume you can use the Play Store, since this is an Android device. It could end up most of the people that buy this will be the rooting crowd, but that will not support an economy of scale model, or an app model for revenue. Most people do not root their devices, so a very contrained install base- especially if even the rooters are locked out of a store.
The returns of this product could be high. You could point out the Kindle and Nook, but even those devices are hurting with constrained markets- especially the Nook which is expected to end after this year. Different devices also.
I really think there are a lot more people like me that will not want to buy their games again than there are that would. So the device is $100, but new controllers are $50 and you need to buy games that only work this one Android device.... Speaking of contollers, have they set those up as well so only their controller works? Why would they NOT do that, based on the app store premise, else people would pay $20 and $30 for already proven controllers.
I still wish the Ouya success, but seems they could have some consumer perception hurdles to get past. Since my desire is zero to buy apps just for one Android device, this will end my negative points, else become a troll or something. :cyclops: Not buying this or any other Android device that forces to an exclusive device and rebuy stuff. Well, I say that now, but could see this as a MAME cabinet down the road in a Tegra 4 version Assuming MAMEReloaded is an install option....
raptir said:
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
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I haven't seen this quote from her, but more than likely they are failing to make the distinction between rooting and an unlocked bootloader. Remember in Android these are two very different things, even if one is usually required to enable the other.
It would be quite easy to detect and block devices with an unlocked bootloader, not so easy to detect and block rooting.
---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------
rushless said:
If you can not use Play, this makes more sense for their model, but seems they will lose as many customers as they gain with this approach. I think most people will naturally assume you can use the Play Store, since this is an Android device. It could end up most of the people that buy this will be the rooting crowd, but that will not support an economy of scale model, or an app model for revenue. Most people do not root their devices, so a very contrained install base- especially if even the rooters are locked out of a store.
I still wish the Ouya success, but seems they could have some consumer perception hurdles to get past. Since my desire is zero to buy apps just for one Android device, this will end my negative points, else become a troll or something. :cyclops: Not buying this or any other Android device that forces to an exclusive device and rebuy stuff. Well, I say that now, but could see this as a MAME cabinet down the road in a Tegra 4 version Assuming MAMEReloaded is an install option....
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Why would you need a Tegra4 to play MAME? My PC from 12 years ago played these arcade games just fine, as did the Linux-based GP2x handheld from 5 years ago.
And no, most of the buyers will not be 'the rooting crowd'. You clearly far overestimate the number of people who read XDA, or do this sort of thing to their phones and tablets. For every person who preordered and hyped this console, there are 5000 parents with too much money to burn, who don't know anything about video games but will buy this $99 console for their children because it's shiny, new and cheaper than any Sony or Microsoft product. And they won't care about the Play Store either, because as long as the games on the Ouya Store are $5-10 and they can restrict purchasing authorization, that's all they want.
I don't like it either, but I'm at least realistic about it. The Ouya makes pretensions of being a "hacker console", but that's all they are. When you scratch the surface, it's still a commercial venture and they really haven't put anything more than a thin veneer of hackability into it. 1x USB port, rooting restrictions, no access to the Play Store.. these are all small things individually but overall they limit your possibilities and ease-of-use. This isn't a Raspberry Pi - it's a GAME CONSOLE. It's designed to sell and make money.
Tegra 3 is slow for a LOT of MAME games that are fast with the A6 (both Android and iOS use same compile of 139.1 ). Since the Tegra 4 is faster with cpu than the A6, the T4 should be a lot better for MAME than Tegra 3.
Games like Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur are examples. They are choppy messes on the Tegra 3.
BTW, even the Tegra 3 is faster than a 12 year old PC with MAME.
amrando said:
I haven't seen this quote from her, but more than likely they are failing to make the distinction between rooting and an unlocked bootloader. Remember in Android these are two very different things, even if one is usually required to enable the other.
It would be quite easy to detect and block devices with an unlocked bootloader, not so easy to detect and block rooting.
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You have that backwards. It is incredibly easy to detect a rooted device and I have run into a handful of applications that do so (and pop up with "Rooted devices are not supported"). Google was previously blocking rooted devices from accessing Play Videos. It's actually very difficult to detect an unlocked bootloader from within the booted system and I do not know of any applications that do so.
The key here is that they've said the Ouya will have a "switch" that will allow you to easily root the device. If that's the case they could very easily tell if you're rooted since they're the ones allowing you to do so. Even something like OTA Rootkeeper that allows for a temp unroot would be ineffective. Since the Ouya is going to have official root support, it's very likely that no one will be looking for an exploit to root it outside of the official method.
Unfortunately the quote about rooted devices not having access to the Ouya store was on a web radio interview a long time ago, so it's not easy to just link to an article. Again, they could have changed their stance since then. If this reddit threat is to be believed, then they are at least aware of the desire for rooted Ouya store access and are hopefully going to change their minds.
rushless said:
Games like Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur are examples
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These are hardly 'MAME' games, these are modern arcade or console ports with a source nearly equivalent to the emulating platform. MAME generally refers to 1980s-1990s arcade boards typically running in the single-digit Mhz, not modern Sega arcade platforms running dual and quad-core Intel-based custom PCs or an XBox360.
Not correct with MAME. The games mentioned have been around in MAME for at least five years and play smooth on the most basic of low endd laptops for the past four. Those games play close to smooth on the iPad 4, so should play smoother with chips like the Snapdragon 600 and Tegra 4.
Though a lot less than the A6 chipset, there are still hundreds of later year games that play perfectly on the Tegra 3.
MAME has no specificity to early year rom sets, though those are some of the more fun ones
Added:
BTW, the CEO of Ouya clearly stated that they will make a lot of their money via their own market, so that answers the Play market issue. They do NOT want people using other markets as a result. They also mentioned the Kickstart money was taken up with early unit purchases, so very imprtant to start revenue through controllers and app purchases.
Still, the potential of this being a mini MAME cabinet is too good to not consider. Perhaps they have eaked more power for the CPUs since no battery life concerns. With PC's you always have the usual Windows issues, but with Android there is a LOT less issues in that regard. True plug & play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmH_DpYMmDo
The gameplay did not look smooth compared to my Excite 7.7, TF 300 or GS3. That said, none are as smooth as the iPad 4.
Another point is that one game is over 1.5GB in size, so 25% of total storage space gone with one game.
I'm an early backer waiting for mine but I'm very sad to see all this. We absolutely must find an unofficial root method that allows Ouya games while srill allowing root and market access. If I have to choose I'll dump the Ouya market for standard android. Please devs help!
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
Stock images after root?
I read somewhere, which I forgot since I been trying to find something on if root is possible, that the stock system images for OUYA will not be available. Does that mean if we root and put a custom rom, the only way back would be with a self made image?
rushless said:
The gameplay did not look smooth compared to my Excite 7.7, TF 300 or GS3. That said, none are as smooth as the iPad 4.
Another point is that one game is over 1.5GB in size, so 25% of total storage space gone with one game.
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External hard drives and flash drives are natively supported I believe.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
To awnser the initial question, yes you can use them, there wont be a play store (untill somebody on xda makes a not sucky user interface ofc) but you can 'sideload' any apk you desire.
Having said that you sadly cannot download APK's directly from google play anymore, but theres several chrome and firefox plugins that will help you with that, also any apk you may have from an Android Humble Bundle (bonus points for buying humble bundles!) should work fine.
Once you have your apk, theres several ways to transfer it, easyest is to plug the ouya into your computer using the provided usb link, then placing your APK files in the found usb device, and then reaching said APKS trough the MAKE menu in the OUYA to install.
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
JLCollier2005 said:
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
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I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
dibblebill said:
I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
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*hint*
/mnt/asec/<name of app>/pkg.apk
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
JLCollier2005 said:
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
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You can transfer them by using the post above me's method (basically, use root access to rip the APK), but sometimes you'll hit copy-protection snags. I really am just responding to weigh into the first comment of this selected quote.
It is actually a legal issue, and a pretty nasty one at that. Both devices being Android is wholly irrelevant, because it's not the operating system that matters, but the rules and EULA of each platform. It's easy to mix the two with Android, since almost no one runs "bare" Android-- most of us run the Google-flavored platform, complete with the Play Store and its own set of rules. When you buy apps from the Play Store, you basically agree to only run them on certified hardware and not to make unauthorized copies. I suspect there's similar terms in OUYA's store agreement (else you'd never get large studios to sign on).
Such being the case, any transferring of paid APKs (or even non-paid ones) is probably illegal. As to whether or not it's ever enforced (or indeed, enforceable)? Totally different question, and it's probably no on both counts.
I agree with overall with Rirere. This probably boils down to that we actually don't own the apps, but have licenses to use them. And most likely the license is tied to the hardware or device serial number. But Google build in easy transfer so we don't have to rebuy the licenses when each new device.
This is actually more on a old issue, but on a newer devices. The PC market has been dealing with softtheft since the 80s. You rarely ever buy the software. It's just license to use it.
The potential issue is DRM. The FCC clearly states using anything to break DRM encryption is illegal. This is why making copies or ripping DVD or blue ray movies, such as those at your favorite retailers, is illegal.
My guess, even if it is trackable, I don't think a developer is going to care as long as you actually purchases the game somewhere and you're just using it on your device. Not giving it to friends or others. Their issue is more that a game will be very popular, but half the people who have it, bit torrented it, which does not put food on their table.
I know on my Galaxy Note 2 for Sprint, GTAVC isn't available through Google Play. I bought on my Android tablet. Made an APK and put it on the GN2 and runs well. I wrote Rockstar what I did, so hopefully they can fix the issue. They have it in writing I did something illegal. Did not get a cease order or law suit threat. Got a thanks.
If you're that concerned, just use open source applications. There's a license but it's more about distribution channels and the environment it's used in. So you can side load all your want on the Ouya (with a very rare exception(.
Thanks for the replies.
My concern wasn't what would happen if I did get them to work/strip the DRM (It's easy enough to find the apps with their DRM stripped anyway), it was just more of a frustration at developers charging what would be double for the same app essentially, but after I posted this, I came to the realization that, as Rirere said, both being android was irrelevant. Just because they are programmed for the same base doesn't mean they should work on all pieces of technology with that base. OUYA is not a Google product in anyway and so therefore the licence I bought with my purchase has nothing to do with the licence I can purchase through OUYA.
It's a really interesting topic and goes back to something I first thought of when eBooks first came out. Is it wrong to download a copy of an ebook to a book that you purchased? It comes down to the fact that yes, they are two different licences, even if they contain the same information.
Anyway, thanks again, very interesting stuff!
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
lovekeiiy said:
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
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Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense.
Developers see a way to use their skills to make something that they (and hopefully others) value. If you value what they have made and want to encourage creation of similar products, you tell them by supporting their efforts (i.e. buying the "license", donating, etc). It benefits them (food on the table) and you (you didn't have to spend the time to learn the language and write the app but still share in the benefits).
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
mybook4 said:
Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense. ...
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True, some laws end up stinking because they're being applied to thing that weren't even imagined when the law was created. Some stuff just falls into a weird spot where it's illegal, but, probably not mean to applied to certain aspects of life. Like DRM on discs. It's meant to keep people from pirating the material. Yet, I don't think movie studios really expect us to buy a copy for every device we want to view the content on. Although, they would love it if we did. The just don't people consuming the content without paying in some form.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. ...
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What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
lovekeiiy said:
What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
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I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
Nate Rules said:
I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
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While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
JLCollier2005 said:
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
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Well, I see where you are coming from. Ouya certainly doesn't have to let us do anything. But there are companies out there that will. I wish we never gave Microsoft so much control over our stuff. I don't view that as a good thing. Also, if Samsung tried to block the Play Store from your S3, would that be ok. Heck No. Everyone would be outraged. It's Android that will make this whole catagory awesome. But it isn't just the console, it's the whole ecosystem. http://www.mogaanywhere.com/about-moga/moga-pro-controller/
This is the Moga Pro. This plus your phone can do anything the Ouya can do. They have their own marketplace. But all it does is show you which games that have been optimized for the moga. It then links you to the Play store. No need to re-buy anything.
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
Nate Rules;42739819... I also own a Moga pro said:
And this may be where the issue lies with so many. Smartphones and the Ouya were not designed to meet the same needs. Yes, they made both run on Android and share hardware. End of the day, the Ouya was designed to be an Android based game system. Not just a general Android device that can be hooked up to the TV, ie a WiFi tablet with no screen.
You also touched the conflict I've had with the Ouya ever since it was announced on Kickstarter. The redundancy to other devices, specifically Android based smartphones and tablets. Serious, I can do everything on the Ouya with either my Galaxy Note 2 or Infinity Pad tablet. I just don't want to leave permanently attached to the TV. I also hoped that supporting it, it would show there is a market for an alternative gaming system, and maybe get developers attention, which hopefully can bring some good games to Android devices, versus just stuff like Angry Birds or ported classic games like GTA (which are still fun to play).
Nonetheless, Ouya store makes sense for both the consumers and as a business model. Whether it'll be successful, that I won't venture to guess. But it falls along the line I've seen in regards to OnLive. A lot people I know had issue with the face that there was no physical disc. They didn't like that they couldn't control having the game. Not exactly the same, I see that fact that people not having access to games on Google Play being following the same logic. The common theme, I'm not buying any games I can't use on all my Android devices.
That said, I'm not saying people shouldn't have that opinion. It's perfectly valid. Yet, to apply that thinking to any device build on the Android OS I believe is being obtuse.
On a side note, I didn't realize the MOGA could fit the GN2. I went with GameKlip and Clingo Neklit combo and use PS3 controller and Sixaxis Controller for my mobile gaming. I like it. I thought the MOGA could only be used with games that had MOGA code, so you couldn't use it with other games such as emulators. That was my issue with it.
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Yeah, the Moga Pro easily fits the Note 2 but it only goes about a centimeter more so I am hoping the Note 3 will fit in it. But it also has 2 modes. It does it's Moga optimized thing which is pretty awesome. And it has the regular bluetooth controller mode. So it works with all games and emulators that can do that.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/20/nvidia-shield-300-june-27/#comments
Just saw this on Engadget. This is the nVidia Shield and in the video it states that their store will show you what games work and then link you to the Play Store just like the Moga.
I may still get the Ouya in hopes that it will get hacked good. But it pains me to support such a company. I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming.
But once the real Android consoles come out, they will have all of the games that the Ouya has and the Ouya will be forgotten. The Ouya 2 will be a failure and there will be a lot of people wondering why they bought games that are of no use to them now. This is the rout Ouya is taking, they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
Nate Rules said:
... I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming. ... they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
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Thanks for sharing your experience on the MOGA. Very interesting. I don't think I would have gotten it, but they didn't explain that well on their site when I checked it out. I already had the Sixaxias app and extra PS3 controllers by that time.
Actually, Ouya isn't trying to advance mobile gaming. What they're really trying setup is more a platform for the small or independent game developers because many other platforms are entry costs are significantly more. It's because Android is open source, tools are developed, and other items related are also open source. Seriously, the Ouya we all get is a developer console. All you do is just register with Ouya as a developer and it opens up the developers menus--make, and builds. The rest is more just installing Android and Ouya developer kits.
I would say for the general consumer, most aren't going to feel jaded because they're not going to access to Google Play. It's a $100 gaming box that uses Android OS. Since it's so new, most games aren't that special. If anything, I've been disappointed about the controller with it's quality control. The console itself is fine. I'm not holding the lack of quality games against them. It's too new in release and concept. But maybe if they can get the numbers, we'll game developers making more full fledged games, like those on major gaming consoles. Consumers have shown that if it's a fun game, graphics are not a critical via the Wii.
As for the money grab, I'm not buying it. The real money is in the market and the 30% fee they'll get off the sales. Same concept with iTunes, Google Play. I don't know what the fee is, but it's what consoles do with their online markets and royalty fee to put a game on a disc for the console.
The MOGA is a cool concept, but honestly it's not something that is not in the same realm as OUYA. If I wanted a portable gaming system with full controls I'd carry around a DS. The MOGA adds a good amount of bulk and I would not carry it around all the time. In the end, the MOGA would be a waste of money (for me, it's a good concept for some I'm sure) even at $40. I'd rather spend the extra money and get something I can play on my TV. Like the post above me said, I have controllers laying around that I can use with my phone if I really wanted to play on that screen. The point of gaming on my phone is to do it when I least expect it (i.e. stuck in a line or waiting for someone) and the MOGA is just inconvenient
I may not have felt this way while I was in school, where I could stick it in my backpack and leave it there. I know there are probably a lot of people who would jump on getting the MOGA for $40 so I'm not putting it down, just saying they're two different things. One is essentially a bluetooth controller and the other is a home console.
Android is by far the cheapest platform to create hardware around right now, not to mention it's pretty stable. OUYA might be the first fully backed Android console, but it won't be the last and I can guarantee any developer who wants to make an impact in this new sub-genre of consoles will NOT include the google play market. If they did, there console would turn into nothing more than an old phone with an HDMI out port, a dead end when it comes to profit. Either that or they'd end up charging 500+ for it, which I don't think would sell.
Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
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Hello Nate, this is Jose from Mad Catz, we are very excited about our upcoming M.O.J.O. launch and let all of you check how this new device will be. We worked to achieve the best Android Micro-console solution so far, and I think we achieved it.
Fresh updates will come shortly, by now you can check our new video which reflects our entertainment solution on Youtube: MadCatzCompany.
Enjoy!
J
Nate Rules said:
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
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That's FUD. Ouya doesn't do a thing to stop custom ROMs. The bootloader is unlocked. I also keep hearing that the recovery mode is crippled, but that's wrong too. You just need a USB keyboard to boot into recovery and to navigate the menus. There's a lot of people jumping to the worst possible conclusions anytime something doesn't work exactly the way they thought it would. Just this week, when people were having trouble installing The Cave, a couple of guys decided Double Fine and Ouya had conspired to implement some form of DRM scheme to block rooted consoles. Turns out it was just a firmware bug that affects large games. The fix was released today.
That said, until the StockPlus ROM finishes their version of Abominable Snowman (or someone else comes out with something) you're better off using rooted stock with Xposed mods for now.
Regarding MOJO and Shield vs Ouya, what they aim to do is somewhat different, and I think a lot of people are looking at Ouya backwards. MOJO and Shield specifically aim to bring Android gaming to hardware that's made for gaming, and I think that's a valid market. If that's what you want, go get those. Ouya aims to make what is a hobbyist and indie console first and foremost, which just happens to use Android as a means to that end. Ouya is Ouya before it is Android, just like Android is Android before it is Linux. The system ROM and OS for most '80s hobby computers was built around BASIC, but we don't think of them primarily as machines for running BASIC. We think of them as a Sinclair, or a Commodore 64, or an MSX machine.
This post over at the recovery/kernel dev thread seems to suggest that locked bootloader root and recovery might actually be impossible to achieve on the Z3+, so I've started to consider unlocking, having previously been adamant about not doing it. Losing the DRM keys is what prevents me, though.
Does anyone have a full list of lost features that go with the keys? I'm aware of some camera stuff, the Bravia engine, and noise cancellation.
Also, some users have reported at least partial restoration of DRM functions (not keys!) on previous Z devices, is that/will that be possible on the 3+?
+1 . I am in the same boat as op!
Sent from my Xperia Z3+
What features are lost? Anyone?
For me its not worth it
Some potential problems are as follows:
Bravia engine stuff and all that
Camera software is degraded especially low-light(can't confirm if this was changed with the z3+)
Sound EQ thingies and NC stops working
Drm Keys
Updates and stuff are not accepted anymore(OTA, PCC)
not worth it. additional to hasona's post :
-Xperia Lounge feature (eg: free movie)
- Screen mirroring
etc.
Currently i can live without root.
Adguard, Helium, will do the necessary needs atm.
And Sony is "committed to the openness of Android" or somesuch. I didn't know purposeful limiting counts as being committed.
monx® said:
not worth it. additional to hasona's post :
-Xperia Lounge feature (eg: free movie)
- Screen mirroring
etc.
Currently i can live without root.
Adguard, Helium, will do the necessary needs atm.
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Currently I can live without root too, only thing I'm missing being not rooted is that I can't edit mixerpath to make my headphones louder,but still can live without that (but it would be cool to have it )
Sent from my E6553 using XDA Free mobile app
[NUMINIT] said:
This post over at the recovery/kernel dev thread seems to suggest that locked bootloader root and recovery might actually be impossible to achieve on the Z3+, so I've started to consider unlocking, having previously been adamant about not doing it. Losing the DRM keys is what prevents me, though.
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Everything is impossible? says who? this will take time at least 9-10 months or 1 year to achieve root. Awesome devs at XDA always come with new exploits. :d
Don't unlock till then.
chesterr said:
Everything is impossible? says who? this will take time at least 9-10 months or 1 year to achieve root. Awesome devs at XDA always come with new exploits. :d
Don't unlock till then.
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Once the z5 is out and they find a away for that, the z4 is sure to follow, with the same method.
Sent from my Xperia Z3+/Z4.
I have no issue with loosing that functionality to gain root..
If blocked updates are an issue, you can just flash newest ftf to get back to unrooted.. but right now, there is no way to get DRM back.
Personally I bought this phone for the express purpose of rooting it so I just assumed I'd loose the DRM keys from day 1.
[NUMINIT] said:
And Sony is "committed to the openness of Android" or somesuch. I didn't know purposeful limiting counts as being committed.
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I think you've gotten Sony's intentions wrong mate. At least there's the option of unlocking the bootloader, albeit by loosing some phone functions. Most other companies they'd lock the bootloader away forever if unlocking meant compromising on proprietary software, or unlock their bootloader and not develop any customised functions as they'd be compromised if the bootloader got unlocked. At least Sony have a way for us to unlock the bootloader and also keep their IP safe. It's a compromise, and one that I'm happy to take.
Sony are one of the few companies that release their source code for their phones to the public. As far as I'm aware, the only other manufacturers only do so when they make a Nexus device and Google force them.
serrin85 said:
Personally I bought this phone for the express purpose of rooting it so I just assumed I'd loose the DRM keys from day 1.
I think you've gotten Sony's intentions wrong mate. At least there's the option of unlocking the bootloader, albeit by loosing some phone functions. Most other companies they'd lock the bootloader away forever if unlocking meant compromising on proprietary software, or unlock their bootloader and not develop any customised functions as they'd be compromised if the bootloader got unlocked. At least Sony have a way for us to unlock the bootloader and also keep their IP safe. It's a compromise, and one that I'm happy to take.
Sony are one of the few companies that release their source code for their phones to the public. As far as I'm aware, the only other manufacturers only do so when they make a Nexus device and Google force them.
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You're right, I worded that more harshly than necessary. I was just so pissed that I bought an expensive phone I can't fully own without losing functions I paid for.
I do think it's silly to protect their software like this, though. Who would risk a massive lawsuit by stealing the IP that gets blocked with unlocking the BL?
Anyway, since you've unlocked, have you personally noticed much difference in everyday use?
Not worth.
My Z3+ wen crazy after some updates from Google (I think just after time when Google changed their logo). I was getting ~40-60 alerts "Google Services can't start" just after reboot. And they were jumping from time to time all the time. My phone was unable to reach google services so it was impossible to retrieve any updates, impossible to install or remove anything. This means impossible backup SMS/Call logs too (I didn't have any apps installed). Yeah I had Sony Xperia Transfer app, but this app will not let you transfer data to any other phone except SONY. Thank you SONY.
Decided perform factory reset. BUT, factory reset button from menu didn't worked. It simply did nothing. Was thinking bring phone to service, but then I need remove my mail accounts (I'm keeping job data there and I probably would be fired and get some 5-number-USD fine if I'd disclosure that info). Removing accounts didn't worked too.
Tried perform factory reset via adb, but no success. Decided boot into boot loader as in my good old nexus 4 and perform factory reset from there. Found some link on web that SONY gives you unlock code gently and you can do that yourself. What could be better, I thought?! Yeah, I've rebooted my phone, reset it and was happy again.
But after few days I've noticed that when I try zoom with my camera just a little, it simply freezes or performs 1 frame / 3-5 seconds. If I try record something - similar **** is happening. Quality is terrible too comparing what I had before. And then I found out about DRM...
So now I have one of top expensive phones with one of worst cameras.
[NUMINIT] said:
You're right, I worded that more harshly than necessary. I was just so pissed that I bought an expensive phone I can't fully own without losing functions I paid for.
I do think it's silly to protect their software like this, though. Who would risk a massive lawsuit by stealing the IP that gets blocked with unlocking the BL?
Anyway, since you've unlocked, have you personally noticed much difference in everyday use?
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Well people port google apps all the time. Granted, no one's been sued yet, but there is a real likelihood that people are going to try it.
I don't think Sony are that worried about joe blow modder, but one of two things:
1) As part of their contract with the third party who they've leased the license from requires them to secure it (which may mean locking the bootloader)
2) Samsung or some other manufacturer would steal their code.
I'm just speculating, but Sony aren't making life difficult for everybody (and themselves) just for ****s and giggles.
I haven't noticed much difference, but then i didn't spend much time with it unlocked. I doubt loosing the drm keys will make the camera laggy.
serrin85 said:
Well people port google apps all the time. Granted, no one's been sued yet, but there is a real likelihood that people are going to try it.
I don't think Sony are that worried about joe blow modder, but one of two things:
1) As part of their contract with the third party who they've leased the license from requires them to secure it (which may mean locking the bootloader)
2) Samsung or some other manufacturer would steal their code.
I'm just speculating, but Sony aren't making life difficult for everybody (and themselves) just for ****s and giggles.
I haven't noticed much difference, but then i didn't spend much time with it unlocked. I doubt loosing the drm keys will make the camera laggy.
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Would it not be possible to just use a different camera app or will that be the same?
serrin85 said:
Well people port google apps all the time. Granted, no one's been sued yet, but there is a real likelihood that people are going to try it.
I don't think Sony are that worried about joe blow modder, but one of two things:
1) As part of their contract with the third party who they've leased the license from requires them to secure it (which may mean locking the bootloader)
2) Samsung or some other manufacturer would steal their code.
I'm just speculating, but Sony aren't making life difficult for everybody (and themselves) just for ****s and giggles.
I haven't noticed much difference, but then i didn't spend much time with it unlocked. I doubt loosing the drm keys will make the camera laggy.
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The camera is laggy as hell as per 5.0.2 anyway, so that's not an issue. I'm more worried about low-light shots. Unlocking absolutely ruined then on my Yuga.
Plus there are things such as the Bravia engine and noise cancellation which I really like
Is anyone willing to test this one on his UB?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/cro...deodex-xperia-z5-themes-home-widgets-t3207016
cjm1979 said:
Would it not be possible to just use a different camera app or will that be the same?
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You can use a different camera app, but the Sony magic mojo (noise filter etc) is only found in the stock app. That is to say unlocking the bootloader nerfs the stock camera app, the camera hardware itself is untouched.
serrin85 said:
You can use a different camera app, but the Sony magic mojo (noise filter etc) is only found in the stock app. That is to say unlocking the bootloader nerfs the stock camera app, the camera hardware itself is untouched.
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So if we had a camera app that does equivalent post-processing Sony's apps we would not lose any picture quality? Does this also mean that any 3rd party app that accesses the camera does not take advantage of any DRM-licensed functionality, and they will work exactly the same way after unlocking the BL?
steveeJ said:
So if we had a camera app that does equivalent post-processing Sony's apps we would not lose any picture quality? Does this also mean that any 3rd party app that accesses the camera does not take advantage of any DRM-licensed functionality, and they will work exactly the same way after unlocking the BL?
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So I use 'A Better Camera' for taking pictures, as the stock app overheates the device incredibly fast. But if the stock sony camera app is working it's much faster than a third party app. But this is is only my own opinion, don't know, if that's always the case and if this depends somehow on the DRM key stuff. (Locked BL, using the 28.0.A.7.24 FW)