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I'm getting tired of all the knock off roms that are all the same.
There are a few "real" devs that make good roms. But then a lot of people cooking roms, and just changing some pictures and stuff with no additional functions, or borrowing them from someone else's rom.
Roms with added apps or themes should go in the theme section, cause its not a new rom.
Post and vote if your tired of getting rom spammed.
.
I'm not looking to fight but here's a real simple question...are you a dev? Are you contributing anything to the betterment of the community? If your answer is no then you like myself probably shouldn't throw stones. If you're unhappy don't use any of the available "spam" as you call it. Stick with your Sense and call it a day.
Just my 2 cents.
I would have to say yes. There are tons of knockoffs.
I had a whitey comment about a developer and rom that was a knockoff of Cyanogenmod's rom but I think it is better left unsaid.
PS: I don't think this belongs in this section but then again it does. So idk I wanna see the results of this poll.
Agreed, alot of these roms are just the same with diffrent apps and themes....they should be moved to themes and apps and stay out of development
Sent from my Evo
sounds like your mad that CM7 isnt out
im furious also
but comon unless you develop a rom then how about you just logout and delete the favorite from your browser.
cya
DanWalker said:
I'm not looking to fight but here's a real simple question...are you a dev? Are you contributing anything to the betterment of the community? If your answer is no then you like myself probably shouldn't throw stones. If you're unhappy don't use any of the available "spam" as you call it. Stick with your Sense and call it a day.
Just my 2 cents.
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personal attack removed. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
lithid-cm said:
you sir are an idiot. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
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I can't agree more with lithid. There are two others out there that seem to be taking lithids and making their own thred. Most are themes and shouldn't be in here. I like to test for preludedrew and lithid based roms but I hear the same complaining. Gps, whens 4g working, hdmi.
Just because you take another devs Rom and update it nightly doesn't make it your own. I personally gone from not understanding Android to recooking roms but why should I post it then ask for donations. Donations should be to those truly developing the roms like CM, Lithid, Prelude and so on.
I certainly don't want to start a war on this but its sickening to bounce from thred to thred and see the same stuff just different title.
Said my peace.. thanks to myn, lithid, CM, and prelude. Of course to all those that help them too.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Stalte said:
I would have to say yes. There are tons of knockoffs.
I had a whitey comment about a developer and rom that was a knockoff of Cyanogenmod's rom but I think it is better left unsaid.
PS: I don't think this belongs in this section but then again it does. So idk I wanna see the results of this poll.
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Yeah, I know, my cyanogenmod knockoff sucks doesn't it...
Just kidding
Well a lot of phones dont have roms or good roms, so even if some roms copy at least we have people giving to the Evo community.
The more roms the better is my thought.
lithid-cm said:
you sir are an idiot. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
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100% spot on correct!!!!!
While anyone can make a contribution to not all of them are beneficial to the community.
brizzle1986 said:
Agreed, alot of these roms are just the same with diffrent apps and themes....they should be moved to themes and apps and stay out of development
Sent from my Evo
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LMAO @ moved to themes and apps
bwhahahaha
goodboynyc said:
While anyone can make a contribution to not all of them are beneficial to the community.
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This thread is essentially pointless. Opinions are like aholes, everyone has one. This thread belongs in the q&a section, not development. Ironic the very thing complained about is the same thing occurring here. People are sharing their creations, like them or not. If not, don't download them. No good is going to come from saying people are all being copycats. I'm sure you feel my ROM is another useless creation as well, a 'knock off'. That's OK with me if you feel that way, plenty of other people like it. If you don't like it, don't download it.
Android is all about open source, this is why I have made threads like THIS ONE and THIS ONE so that others can see exactly what I have done and how to do it themselves.
Have a nice day
Ive taking the best features,tweaks etc from 4-5 different roms and made my own sweet rom but I wouldnt dare post it cause it's not my work, but that being said if proper credit is giving to the Devs is this really a issue??
Better to have too many than not enough. Even if they just change a couple of things then, imo, that could spark further creativity or development.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
You should ask the devs too. I think if a dev copies the whole rom and just basically theme it they shouldn't ask for money. But if they actually add features why not.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I don't think they're knockoffs. Even the "knockoffs" take a great load of time and effort to make them. The Devs aren't always looking to please everyone and often make ROMS because a small group has asked them to. Competition is NEVER bad
More roms to chose from is better. Not all developers want to add certain tweaks consumers demand. For example the power bar tweak and etc... this post is useless and doesn't belong here.
OP if you don't like the variety of roms then don't read about them or even become curious of them. Don't waste pointless space in this forum. Thanks.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
there are just sooooo many "custom" roms out there right now and its hard to find things sometimes.
Can we get another section under development for kernels, aosp and sense
that would make it look alot prettier
SteelH said:
This thread is essentially pointless. Opinions are like aholes, everyone has one. This thread belongs in the q&a section, not development. Ironic the very thing complained about is the same thing occurring here. People are sharing their creations, like them or not. If not, don't download them. No good is going to come from saying people are all being copycats. I'm sure you feel my ROM is another useless creation as well, a 'knock off'. That's OK with me if you feel that way, plenty of other people like it. If you don't like it, don't download it.
Android is all about open source, this is why I have made threads like THIS ONE and THIS ONE so that others can see exactly what I have done and how to do it themselves.
Have a nice day
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X2 on all of that!
If you don't like it, don't download it....I like the freedom to choose. My friend has the incredible and gets mad that he doesn't have as much to choose from as I do.
I always wanted to share this as some people call themselves developers in this forum by just removing and adding some apps and making roms "look faster". What they is actually going into the app called spare parts and choose the fast transition and fast windows animations. So why not trying these settings on cm7 and see which is faster people? Or any other rom developed by true developers!! I am not saying im against rom development but at least if u are trying to develop then do something unique and not a rom that even my grandma could do
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App (cm7)
I agree mostly... the vast majority of roms available for us right now are just themed CM7. that's fine and dandy, but it's particularly amusing to me when people talk smack about CM7 being "slow" or "buggy" etc and then claim their new rom of choice, a CM7 variant, is the best thing since sliced bread.
that said, even theming can be a hell of a task, and extremely time consuming. I appreciate all of the work the development community provides to us (free of charge, mind you).
I don't see what you are trying to get at here. For a start I have tried just about every rom there is and I don't believe I have ever come across one that has window tansitions set to fast by default. We have a really good mix of devs here doing different things and do great work. You need to remember that devs build a rom that they like, quite often it is built for them and they choose to release it to the general public.
One of the great things about this community is choice. A rom that one person loves and another will hate, its all about personal preference.
Do you know anything about developing a rom? I don't but I knw a lot of work goes in to them and the devs do a lot more than change some settings on spare parts to make there rom different, better and faster than the next rom.
Your post in insulting to the devs that work really hard to give us something cool and awesome.
Sent from an ice cream sandwich
Well said. You must strive to support to the best of your abilities, the development scene for this respective phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
I never said not supporting TRUE dev!! Im referring to those that call themselves devs by removing and adding a few apps. Go into other handsets forums and see what i mean. For ouf g2 only a few deserve to be called devs. Thats what im saying..
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
TheDeadCpu said:
There is a MAJOR difference between Chef and Developers, that's why we have the term Chef for non devs that make ROMs.
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And does anyone actually use the chef title here on the g2 forum? No....
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
astriaos said:
I think this thread really exemplifies a major issue in the dev community: The lack of drive for a unified stable product whose basic functions all work properly across a cross section of devices.
Theaming is all well and good, but if MMS doesn't work and you have force crashes on multiple internal apps; what exactly is it all good for? If I can't boot up gps, then what the heck does it matter? If internal components and tweaks are confusing and ill thought out, then why the heck are they being shared?
I really think that the dev community needs to sit down across multiple devices & hash these issues out.
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Yohu know what your looking for? A stock rom....they all work! The devs here are pushing the boundries and taking our phones to the edge! Of course not everything will work out of the box and if they fixed everything before they released it they would have to deal with everyone begging for the next release.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
I know who your referring to, and if your not referring to someone in particular, there is someone who repackages stuff that offers nothing new and everyone wets there pants over it. Getting on my nerves somewhat.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544 said:
Thats what im talking about. I m glad someone agrees with me.. cheers mate
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Thought I was the only one too but did not want to be rude or sound ungrateful. I do appreciate every quote on quote devs work and passion for making us roms. But some of these are just stock with the equivelant of removing bloat with titanium backup. No system tweaks. Nothing really even changed. if anything they should just be called bloatless roms or something.
On another note, while I do get annoyed that a lot of stuff is just cyanogen with a slick of paint on it, obviously the work it takes to build a rom from the ground up is not easy. Otherwise we would see a lot more of them. I do understand that and do not take lightly how hard it probably is. Maybe the answer is let's port some roms from other phones? Like insertcoin for example? Or maybe all the devs that are just repackaging stuff get together and form something along the lines of what the bionix team does and all work together to make one super good rom.
I LOVE the choices we have with this phone. Its f-in awesome. But sometimes I feel like its just a placebo with really one 3 to 4 actual unique roms for our g2. I do not know how to make roms, so I'm not acting like this can be done overnight. But some of this just seems like common sense no matter what angle your coming from.
Obviously rmk is a rom god. And suilmagic seems like an up and comer. Pershoots kick ass. I thought for a minute there was many a rumor that eugene was heading our way, which if true would probably cause a dam near astronomical shift in this forum, hope there is some truth to that rumor. Those are devs that stand out to me, if I didn't say your name I just didn't think of you when I was writing this.
Thank you for indulging my two cents. I do not mean to offend anyone whatsoever. I appreciate everything you guys do for us. But let's not sugarcoat the reality of our situation.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
actually, from my point of view, the worst thing is when someone does not give deserved credit - "Grab, use and forget"
petarpLab said:
kokoskokis544, welcome to the club
what enrages me the most is the absence of detailed information on what exactly is done to the rom - goes against the community spirit.
I would like to research the changes myself and make sure there's nothing that can damage my phone.
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I agree that is extremely annoying. And then you ask what is it in it or whats different from other roms and you get a "INSTALL IT STUPID AND FIND OUT"....YA WELL UP YOURS TOO
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
pmcqueen said:
even decompiling a rom and making minor changes like adding/removing apks and tweaking existing settings takes hours of work. theming is even more time consuming. I don't think most people realize this. the work itself isn't "hard," but the amount of time you have to set aside to be able to do this kind of stuff is extremely tough to come by, at least for me.
in that respect, you should all be grateful for the time ALL devs and chefs, regardless of the substance of their contributions, devote to giving us new stuff to play with.
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I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
[sig]My mission is to hit 1000 posts by 23/05/2011[sig]
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Make that two. I don't really see a reason to get all aggro over something that is free. As to something that "might damage my phone".... um.. what? To my knowledge, the devs (or whatever some may wish to call them) are not into the practice of putting out toxic software for us to download. To make sure, I use this goofy thing called judgement. I'll look at a new ROM, read the dev comments, wait a while, read the feedback comments, and make a decision. Not complicated. If there are a ton of bugs and problems, I'll wait until later versions come out that correct these issues. Or I'll choose another ROM. I honestly don't see the point of complaining about free services and a plethora of options. If people don't like all that, unroot and stay with stock software.
cjward23 said:
I'm glad there is at least one person here that share my point of view.
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No, I'm with you too. While I don't know zip about development, I can appreciate the fact that it takes time and effort to create and upload a ROM, even one that is just a tweaked version of someone else's work.
While the OP seems to be complaining about one or a few people in particular, it seems that many people who post ROMs are doing it for the sheer enjoyment, or to create something unique for themselves. Then, they go out of their way to upload and post it on here for others to enjoy. Of course, giving credit when its due, and describing what has been changed (and what hasn't), as previously suggested, are all good points as well.
Its not like there is a whole lot of fortune and glory associated with calling yourself a "developer". If somebody is even calling themselves that, its probably due to lack of a better term, more than anything else. Its a bit cumbersome to go around calling yourself "Guy who modified a ROM for myself, and now posting it for others to enjoy".
Besides, if you don't like a person's ROMs, just don't use them or read his threads. Not enough ROMs tends to be the more common complaint, rather than too many (although obviously quality is a factor as well, not just quantity).
If you really wanna ***** about free services then don't use them, switch phones, go to a different dev community. People do this work for fun, they don't ask for money for the hours of work they put in. You should be appreciative for whatever ROMs we get ,especially if you don't "dev" yourself.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
I'm thinking of using another ROM
but first I want to know ur opinions about the one you're using or u think is the best, which one is the unbugiest & fastest one for xoom (wifi only)?
& what really makes the difference in xoom ROMs, cause I didn't see any difference in screen shots, like how u see a big difference between Cyanogen & stock one (in android phones)
mehras1991 said:
I'm thinking of using another ROM
but first I want to know ur opinions about the one you're using or u think is the best, which one is the unbugiest & fastest one for xoom (wifi only)?
& what really makes the difference in xoom ROMs, cause I didn't see any difference in screen shots, like how u see a big difference between Cyanogen & stock one (in android phones)
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There is really only one custom ROM for the Xoom, made by Team Tiamat, and one variation on that one.
Save for some specific tweaks and added features like overclocking, there is not a massive difference from the stock ROM since the HC source code has not and will not be released.
Therefore it is a little early to start the typical "I have no freaking idea what I am doing, please tell me what I should do and how I should feel so I don't need to think too much" posts, isn't it?
rschenck said:
There is really only one custom ROM for the Xoom, made by Team Tiamat, and one variation on that one.
Save for some specific tweaks and added features like overclocking, there is not a massive difference from the stock ROM since the HC source code has not and will not be released.
Therefore it is a little early to start the typical "I have no freaking idea what I am doing, please tell me what I should do and how I should feel so I don't need to think too much" posts, isn't it?
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That was a good answer, but the last part was a tiny bit harsh, no?
Honestly... the post above hit the nail on the head. Tiamat is the only core ROM for the Xoom as of current because no other teams will want to create a ROM that you cannot do too much with since the Honeycomb source is not out, as the post above said, and it won't be released. Wait for Ice cream sandwich. That's when they will be ready to release the new source. So, ICS should be rooted and custom ROM heaven!
okantomi said:
That was a good answer, but the last part was a tiny bit harsh, no?
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Perhaps, but if you look at other XDA forums such as the SGS forum, there are dozens of these posts a day. People who can't be bothered to read threads and do research but just keep asking what people think is the best, as if that has any real value.
Then when someone answers them, they will ask them to tell them how to flash the selected ROM, still seeing no need to educate themselves.
Next will be the frantic "I bricked my device...help me!" post.
A few days after someone walks them through getting back to stock, they will just post another "Which ROM is best" post.
It becomes an unending cycle. Sure I am probably being unfair to the OP to make a point, but they are being unfair to themselves by not doing their own investigation.
diablo2224 said:
Honestly... the post above hit the nail on the head. Tiamat is the only core ROM for the Xoom as of current because no other teams will want to create a ROM that you cannot do too much with since the Honeycomb source is not out, as the post above said, and it won't be released. Wait for Ice cream sandwich. That's when they will be ready to release the new source. So, ICS should be rooted and custom ROM heaven!
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And to give all due props to Team Tiamat, most of the people with the skills to make a ROM for the Xoom are already part of that team...and they have done about the best anyone could do with without sources.
Even if there are other Devs out there familiar with the Xoom, I doubt any other team will make a ROM since what is there for them to do that isn't already in the Tiamat ROM?
rschenck said:
And to give all due props to Team Tiamat, most of the people with the skills to make a ROM for the Xoom are already part of that team...and they have done about the best anyone could do with without sources.
Even if there are other Devs out there familiar with the Xoom, I doubt any other team will make a ROM since what is there for them to do that isn't already in the Tiamat ROM?
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My point exactly! What more would the devs be able to do or add without the source other than some themes?
Great point about all the best devs being on Team Tiamat. They are working together to make an awesome ROM!
rschenck said:
Perhaps, but if you look at other XDA forums such as the SGS forum, there are dozens of these posts a day. People who can't be bothered to read threads and do research but just keep asking what people think is the best, as if that has any real value.
Then when someone answers them, they will ask them to tell them how to flash the selected ROM, still seeing no need to educate themselves.
Next will be the frantic "I bricked my device...help me!" post.
A few days after someone walks them through getting back to stock, they will just post another "Which ROM is best" post.
It becomes an unending cycle. Sure I am probably being unfair to the OP to make a point, but they are being unfair to themselves by not doing their own investigation.
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You are always so helpful, I'm sorry that you are feeling a bit burnt on all the help you've been giving. I know that I feel a bit frustrated when people clearly don't research before they leap, but I thought the OP was just looking for some opinions.
Anyway, your replies and diablo2224's pretty much wrapped up that topic!
rschenck said:
Perhaps, but if you look at other XDA forums such as the SGS forum, there are dozens of these posts a day. People who can't be bothered to read threads and do research but just keep asking what people think is the best, as if that has any real value.
Then when someone answers them, they will ask them to tell them how to flash the selected ROM, still seeing no need to educate themselves.
Next will be the frantic "I bricked my device...help me!" post.
A few days after someone walks them through getting back to stock, they will just post another "Which ROM is best" post.
It becomes an unending cycle. Sure I am probably being unfair to the OP to make a point, but they are being unfair to themselves by not doing their own investigation.
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Click to collapse
funny, but true answer, that's kind of what happened to me in the past month, but I finally broke the circle rules in the pas 3days, so now I'm on my own
diablo2224 said:
My point exactly! What more would the devs be able to do or add without the source other than some themes?
Great point about all the best devs being on Team Tiamat. They are working together to make an awesome ROM!
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without source code,
so all those tablet optimized apps are made by devs by playing with the right resolution & graphic effects for the screen!!?
& since xoom & the others have (almost) the same screen size, it won't be so difficult for developers
anyway, what's wrong with google!!
I just read on wiki that they'll release the source code with ice "cream sandwich" source code, & that's because "cream sandwich" will become an android version both for phones & tablets....
don't u think it's waste of time with doing that? I'm imagining a very boring future for android, think of it, u'll see the same version on all the android smartphones & tablets!!!
seriously, what a boring choice for google
mehras1991 said:
without source code,
so all those tablet optimized apps are made by devs by playing with the right resolution & graphic effects for the screen!!?
& since xoom & the others have (almost) the same screen size, it won't be so difficult for developers
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Click to collapse
Umm... ok?
That my friend is for developing apps. Maybe you don't know anything about root or custom Roms? It doesn't work the same way when it comes to developing a custom Rom with special features such as system tweaks. Without the source, the Rom will not see things such as... every single tweak in CyanogenMod! No interface tweaks, multimedia tweaks, no tweaks of any kind! Check out CyanogenMod settings... there are a boat load of tweaks for everything you can think of. As of right now, nothing like that can happen with our Honeycomb tablets without the Honeycomb source code.
Without the source, you have a slighty modified stock Rom experience that can be themed pretty easily...
diablo2224 said:
Umm... ok?
That my friend is for developing apps. Maybe you don't know anything about root or custom Roms? It doesn't work the same way when it comes to developing a custom Rom with special features such as system tweaks. Without the source, the Rom will not see things such as... every single tweak in CyanogenMod! No interface tweaks, multimedia tweaks, no tweaks of any kind! Check out CyanogenMod settings... there are a boat load of tweaks for everything you can think of. As of right now, nothing like that can happen with our Honeycomb tablets without the Honeycomb source code.
Without the source, you have a slighty modified stock Rom experience that can be themed pretty easily...
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useful info,
thnx
so, do you think we'll have chance to see & try some cool stuffs when "ice cream sandwich" being released!?!?!? orrrr our xoom will be old for that time & we'll have to think of buying something new???
mehras1991 said:
useful info,
thnx
so, do you think we'll have chance to see & try some cool stuffs when "ice cream sandwich" being released!?!?!? orrrr our xoom will be old for that time & we'll have to think of buying something new???
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ICS will be ROM heaven for both root users and devs alike, no doubt about that. No one knows if it will make its way onto our current Xoom's though. Keeping in mind that at Google IO this year, they said something about a time frame for all new Android devices that will keep the selected devices up to date with the most current OS updates and releases. If that's the case, the Xoom was the first Honeycomb tablet/dev tablet... so one would think that the Xoom would be getting the ICS update according the what they said at IO. Again, no one really knows yet as it is still much too early for ICS to officially launch. We'll see if the OG Xoom gets it or else they will end up launching the Xoom 2 as the first ICS device no doubt, because by that time the Xoom will be nearing it's one year mark, meaning... time for a remodel!
Can someone tell me whats up with the 50+ ICS ROMs? It's a bit concerning that all this effort seems to be put into reproducing the same exact thing. I think the community would benefit from cooperation rather than competition... But I feel like I must be missing something here, I am new to the Nexus S but not to Android, is there something about the Nexus S community that I'm not getting?
Not complaining at all, or should I say, I'm not trying to complain. I also want to point out that I appreciate the developers who pour their time and effort into our devices and help us to get the maximum value out of them.
(Want to note, I am running AOSP's ICS build and loving it.)
joenathane said:
Can someone tell me whats up with the 50+ ICS ROMs? It's a bit concerning that all this effort seems to be put into reproducing the same exact thing. I think the community would benefit from cooperation rather than competition... But I feel like I must be missing something here, I am new to the Nexus S but not to Android, is there something about the Nexus S community that I'm not getting?
Not complaining at all, or should I say, I'm not trying to complain. I also want to point out that I appreciate the developers who pour their time and effort into our devices and help us to get the maximum value out of them.
(Want to note, I am running AOSP's ICS build and loving it.)
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Hey Man, I am much similar to where you are right now. I am not new to Nexus S or Android, but I feel that the abundance of ROMs is a good thing.
Having so many ROMs shows that the device is still running very strong: Something Android phones NEED to have behind them.
On the other hand I dislike it. To all the developers out there, I think you guys are amazing and genius no doubt. So take the following lightly...
What people don't like to see when browsing for a ROM is a dozen ROMs that are all identical. We need something new and fresh, hence why I like MIUI.
What I think should be done is as you said, have co-operation to make one master ROM because we have hundreds of people in the Nexus S community ready to help.
Speaking on my behalf I HATE SO MANY ROMs Because I simply cannot decide which is best because they are all similar in many ways, and I don't have time to try each one out as much as I want to. I do like having these ROMs but when it comes to choosing one its a big choice for me.
Any feedback on this?
I agree with a not so great abundance or ROMs. But most are not devs. They are simply "chefs" because they never actually developed anything. They just price and scrap things from source to mods. Cm9, ASOP, Peter A(because of his radios and kernal) are devs. We have lots of chefs.
I made brickROM just because of this situation. Its never been done, but the community wasn't ready for it yet.
Either way you can tell what rom has Is "real" I would say there's about only 5
And its sad for new Android users that come here get presided by a catching slogan and rob themselves from using a much better rom
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
What would you do if you don't like any of the existing ROMs? May be one is missing a feature you need, another just has too many features you don't want? The answer is simple -- create your own ROM, or modify an existing one... I think most devs just make the ROM they want to use as their daily driver and simply share it here (i.e. what's going on is not about competition, at least from my point of view)
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
suksit said:
What would you do if you don't like any of the existing ROMs? May be one is missing a feature you need, another just has too many features you don't want? The answer is simple -- create your own ROM, or modify an existing one... I think most devs just make the ROM they want to use as their daily driver and simply share it here (i.e. what's going on is not about competition, at least from my point of view)
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
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But these futures found in everyone's ROM are just mods that you can flash. I flash 8 zips with every rom update but I know that a personal mix so I have no need to share it.
I'm capiale of changing my waklppaer
I flash custom font, and inverted apps with some tyranny Widgets and kernal. With gnex sounds. No reason to "cook" it. This is not development.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
suksit said:
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
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The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
joenathane said:
The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
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I am agree with you CyanogenMod need a bug tracker for CM9.
Here is an interesting fact in case anyone didn't know but MR. Cyanogen himself is rocking a Nexus S http://twitter.com/#!/cyanogen/status/153353404159234049
I wonder what build of ICS he is running, probably from his own private reserve...
joenathane said:
The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
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I will be honest here and say that I personally dislike Cyanogen Mod for the most part. True that they are the gut best in performance, but if the only ROM I had was Cyanogen, I would not be very happy with it. I just think that for my favor, Cyanogen focus' so much on power, yet takes the look of the ROM as a after thought. The modified music on Cyanogen ROMs and the overall execution of his work lacks style and design, as if he first said "Make it fast, then maybe make it look ok" MIUI on the other hand has a great deal invested in how it looks which gives a very effective illusion of performance.
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
LGIQEXPO said:
I will be honest here and say that I personally dislike Cyanogen Mod for the most part. True that they are the gut best in performance, but if the only ROM I had was Cyanogen, I would not be very happy with it. I just think that for my favor, Cyanogen focus' so much on power, yet takes the look of the ROM as a after thought. The modified music on Cyanogen ROMs and the overall execution of his work lacks style and design, as if he first said "Make it fast, then maybe make it look ok" MIUI on the other hand has a great deal invested in how it looks which gives a very effective illusion of performance.
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
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The only problem with that is Miui uses CyanogenMod code as a base(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIUI#Development) and CyanogenMod 7 has the theme chooser integrated for easy themeing(check the last three links in my signature to see some themes I created for it).
I don't think any mod team have contributed more to Android than the CyanogenMod Team, they certainly have my respect for that.
I agree about the spices, all these chefs cooking the same exact entree and now which on to choose...
joenathane said:
The only problem with that is Miui uses CyanogenMod code as a base(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIUI#Development)
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It's a fact, not a problem.
Back on topic,
LGIQEXPO said:
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
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I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
suksit said:
It's a fact, not a problem.
Back on topic,
I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
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This^^ plus one thing, good all these chefs are popping up, that's showing a swell in number of people interested in development, in the end it can only have a positive outcome. Let em dev.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
suksit said:
It's a fact, not a problem.
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I obviously didn't mean problem in that sense, I meant it as in the 'problem' with his argument not the problem with CyanogenMod or Miui, I'm not sure how you interpreted it the way you did...
suksit said:
I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
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Click to collapse
what about the "noobs" who are instantly confronted with 20+ ICS ROMs and not a clue to which is worth its weight in salt?
joenathane said:
I obviously didn't mean problem in that sense, I meant it as in the 'problem' with his argument not the problem with CyanogenMod or Miui, I'm not sure how you interpreted it the way you did...
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Sorry if I interpreted it wrong (English is not my native language anyway ) I thought you're trying to imply that "since MIUI is based on CM, @LGIQEXPO shouldn't compare them together" or "if you like MIUI, it means you already liked CM." Just wanted to say that it is not a problem if one wants to compare those two.
joenathane said:
what about the "noobs" who are instantly confronted with 20+ ICS ROMs and not a clue to which is worth its weight in salt?
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Occasionally I'd see a thread titled "Help me decide which ROM is best" and the most popular answer would be "Why don't you try them all?" Yeah it would be madness to try all 20+ ROMs in a row, but I don't think anyone will do that.
Before flashing a ROM, I'd (suggest them to) read everything in the first few posts by the OP, and take a look at the screenshots (most of the time I can decide if I will like this ROM or not by these two factors) If those "noobs" are not too ignorant I believe they'll have a small list of ROM(s) they want to try (may be 4-5 choices, which is reasonable.)
I know it is on the same code, but I more so meant the apps that MIUI re-did for their ROMs, and how they offer a nice end user appeal.
What would be amazing is if all the known devs of these ROMs would just once come together to use their own strengths, and make a mast ROM out of it. MIUI Design and style, Cyanogen tweaks and speed, Peter A. stability, the overclocking everything! (I can't wait for that hahah )
you want fewer rom, get a ns4g. Although we only have a fraction of the roms found in the other forum, they all seem to have their own distinct character.
i was using an SII before this so i was a frequent on that part of xda.. they do have a separate page for original development and another one for development (being kitchen products)
Hey,
Just wanted to add my opinion in all of this that there are so many "equal" roms.
I as some mentioned on another thread am a chef to rom developing, and I don't mind.
Why I do this is because I don't have the time or knowledge to create Android source apps so I take what I think is the best from each rom and create my own.
For example for me CM9 is way to bloated with too many configurations and options I prefer a more real cleaner AOSP, something like Peter Alfonso (buglessBeast), but I do like the T9 dialer from CM9, so I cherry-pick that from CM9 and add it to a PA base.
Also for the notifications power menu I liked TeamKang one so I added that. That way I'm making my own custom rom to my liking and also I don't have to be flashing 20 zips every time there is a new update or wipe my phone
I just thought on sharing it just if some one has the same likes in roms I'm no asking for anything in return. Also I do this in my little free time.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
mandaman2k said:
Hey,
Just wanted to add my opinion in all of this that there are so many "equal" roms.
I as some mentioned on another thread am a chef to rom developing, and I don't mind.
Why I do this is because I don't have the time or knowledge to create Android source apps so I take what I think is the best from each rom and create my own.
For example for me CM9 is way to bloated with too many configurations and options I prefer a more real cleaner AOSP, something like Peter Alfonso (buglessBeast), but I do like the T9 dialer from CM9, so I cherry-pick that from CM9 and add it to a PA base.
Also for the notifications power menu I liked TeamKang one so I added that. That way I'm making my own custom rom to my liking and also I don't have to be flashing 20 zips every time there is a new update or wipe my phone
I just thought on sharing it just if some one has the same likes in roms I'm no asking for anything in return. Also I do this in my little free time.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Thanks for adding your voice to the discourse.
If I was asked to offer an opinion on what you do, this is what I would say....
I think what you do is okay for you, but the problem is when you release it. There is a problem because as you state, you cherry pick features and/or "code" from other ROMs, and that can/will lead to issues for your user base. Lets take for example the T9 dialer, what happens when security bugs are found and fixed and optimizations make it into an update of the T9 dialer? Well that would mean you would need to update your ROM, but what if you're busy with your job or just with life and are too busy to get around to it? Well now your users of your ROM are without those security, bug fixes and optimizations, and multiply that by all the other pieces of the ROM that you cherry picked from other sources.
My point here to be clear is that due to the nature of your ROM, it will always lag in patches to security issues, bug fixes and optimizations and I think that is ultimately a disservice to your user base.
There is a value that you create, so I guess the question here is, does that value of bringing all these pieces into one convenient package outweigh the negatives of the lagging patches/fixes?
I mean no offense, and I hope this isn't taken as such, I just want to encourage some discourse on these things...
I have often wondered what would happen if we gathered our collective knowledge, in a scientific way to make a ROM to rule them all. I'm not a DEV, I wish I had time/expertise to get into it, but I don't. So there's a disclaimer I guess.
I get that people like different looks, different features, but what if there was a collective that worked on a single ROM?
Here are my thoughts:
I've often sat back and looked at/flashed different ROMs and wondered what really differentiates them. Some are "tuned" one way, or "optimized" another. I can't help but think there are a handful of devs who go about their whole devving life "trial and error" optimizing. Not saying this shouldn't happen, but what if there was a place where other devs said "hey, don't change that build.prop line unless you also change this other one here"?
It would be nice if we knew what every setting did, or was supposed to do, but that's asking too much. But, I can't help but think that our devs have to reinvent the wheel sometimes. How many threads have you seen about optimizing this or that? Or how about tweaks that become obsolete?
I'm not saying I have an answer, but I see what I think to be a problem, and the problem I see is that all our wonderful devs spending time and energy on things that have already been done before. I'm aware that a lot of "training" and transfer of knowledge happens on IRC, and that is good. But when DEVs have to move on or get new devices, is that wealth of knowledge preserved?
Perhaps I'm too naive, and it's not as easy as saying "that setting is fully optimized, don't touch" or "this setting has a lot of leeway" or "if you change that each device will react differently".
Was just wondering if some of the DEVs would chime in. I know there is a certain amount of satisfaction that comes from doing something for yourself from the ground up, no doubt about it. I've always been curious to know if the DEVs would/could gather up their talents en masse to accomplish something greater than the collective of what already exists.
Thanks!
...and I'm enjoying the ICS 9 Alpha very much, but the recent MIUI Tips thread is giving me an itch to flash something new =]
isnt that what cyanogenmod is?
s89281b said:
isnt that what cyanogenmod is?
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No. CM is designed to be a stable, well-performing platform that's optimized as much as possible, while remaining compatible.
OP, I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of what goes into development that isn't feature-add has tradeoffs. One might enhance performance at the expense of stability, or enhance stability at the expense of performance. Then there's the balance. Atop that, you do get plenty of things that may work perfectly on your device, but not at all on the next (many CPU/GPU related items, like overclocking/undervolting). The main reason there isn't a "master ROM" is that what's best for one user is not best for the whole. There's really no such thing as "best". Things that are widely known to be best practices will make their way into almost every ROM - for example, noCIQ here, pre-EL30 - but the rest won't.
The whole point of ROMs are to give users choice that the manufacturer did not. If there were only one 'master ROM', there'd be nothing to choose!
Now, as for knowledge preservation... Much of it is. A lot of what goes into popular ROMs are optimizations posted elsewhere, from around XDA. I have found many tips and tricks and tools and tinkers in the past, and used them extensively, because the vast majority of knowledge does stay searchable. IRC is just a tool for real-time support (guiding someone through something), for quick questions, or for real-time chat within dev communities.
Essentially what the OP is saying is that he wants a ROM just like an Apple iPhone, since the iPhone is basically the one ROM to rule them all
On a serious note, that is the beauty of Android because there really isn't one ROM to rule them all. Every one has their own opinion as to what is best for them and as k0nane says, sometimes you have to steal from Peter to give to Paul (Performance vs Stability).
k0nane said:
No. CM is designed to be a stable, well-performing platform that's optimized as much as possible, while remaining compatible.
OP, I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of what goes into development that isn't feature-add has tradeoffs. One might enhance performance at the expense of stability, or enhance stability at the expense of performance. Then there's the balance. Atop that, you do get plenty of things that may work perfectly on your device, but not at all on the next (many CPU/GPU related items, like overclocking/undervolting). The main reason there isn't a "master ROM" is that what's best for one user is not best for the whole. There's really no such thing as "best". Things that are widely known to be best practices will make their way into almost every ROM - for example, noCIQ here, pre-EL30 - but the rest won't.
The whole point of ROMs are to give users choice that the manufacturer did not. If there were only one 'master ROM', there'd be nothing to choose!
Now, as for knowledge preservation... Much of it is. A lot of what goes into popular ROMs are optimizations posted elsewhere, from around XDA. I have found many tips and tricks and tools and tinkers in the past, and used them extensively, because the vast majority of knowledge does stay searchable. IRC is just a tool for real-time support (guiding someone through something), for quick questions, or for real-time chat within dev communities.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the love k0nane =]
Can't you just humor me, and pretend we're playing Zelda, and say you are working on the Master ROM? hehehe
That's what I figured, I was just curious and thought I'd do a brain dump in case it helped =]
I know that ROM kitchens were on their way back before last summer, that sounded somewhat appealing, but they have a whole other slew of complications.
In the end, I am thoroughly thrilled with the products that come from our dev community. And let's be honest, given a little time, CM9 may become the ROM to rule them all.
adelmundo said:
Essentially what the OP is saying is that he wants a ROM just like an Apple iPhone, since the iPhone is basically the one ROM to rule them all
On a serious note, that is the beauty of Android because there really isn't one ROM to rule them all. Every one has their own opinion as to what is best for them and as k0nane says, sometimes you have to steal from Peter to give to Paul (Performance vs Stability).
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...I think I just spit up in my mouth.
MeetFace said:
Can't you just humor me, and pretend we're playing Zelda, and say you are working on the Master ROM? hehehe
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I did, on EI22, and never released it. That thing flew.
k0nane said:
I did, on EI22, and never released it. That thing flew.
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Zelda always was one elusive broad.