Related
http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/54903-is-motorola-getting-ready-to-ditch-android
The article makes several key points:
"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google and even Google's numbers look less than reliable. There are 37 lawsuits on this platform since the beginning of 2010 many filed against companies like Motorola and complaints from the OEM on Google's responsiveness to their concerns are both common and strident," he explained.
"They are not happy and a review of all of this is what pushed HP to buy Palm and avoid Android all together
You have to consider why a company like Motorola would chose to support, or not support an OS - things may not be all that rosy for Google Experience Devices, in fact it sounds like companies like Motorola may actually resent Googles interference, and what they percieve as an inequitable distribution of profit (into Googles Pocket) on these devices.
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
I think its all in the informations source. Wasn't there an article a month or two back that essentially discussed exactly how profitable Android is? Essentially calling it Google's most profitable venture ever for both themselves and their partners.
I think the proof is in handset shipments and growth. What is HTC's shipment growth over the past 2 years? Something in the neighborhood of 200%? and their projection is for a 300% increase over that this year? Those handset sales are driven primarily by Android. If they aren't making a profit on those handsets then they would have been unprofitable no matter what, because their prices wouldn't have changed. Whether it be Windows Mobile,Android or Brand Z their new handset is still going to be in the neighborhood of 599-650, so its their responsibility to make sure that price point is profitable for them. I don't see them being able to complain about slow growth since the sales growth and acceptance for the Android platform is pretty much meteoric.
I hardly see Motorola complaining about Android considering it and Verizon essentially saved them from becoming the next Nokia, a brand no one in America cares about. Are they hedging their bets? Possibly. Abandoning Android right now or in the foreseeable future though? I would say absolutely not.
Without Android, its pretty easy to say that Motorola and HTC would be in far worse financial shape than increasing their shipments and profits every quarter than they currently are. (Samsung not so much, they could have continued to be the OEM supplier for screens to HTC/Other brands who want to make phones) But in fact it was so profitable it encouraged Samsung to jump into the market themselves instead of just supplying parts. It gave those companies an instant way to compete with iOS.
Motorola announced today it sold 8.3 million handsets in the second quarter, earning the Mobile Devices division $1.7 billion in sales, and returning the unit to profitability after several quarters of losses. Over 2.7 million smartphones were part of Motorola’s overall handset sales, showing the vast growth in this segment, as the company reported zero smartphone sales in the same quarter in 2009. Although Motorola quarterly results don’t specifically name the biggest catalyst for such a change, it can be summarized in one word: Android.
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Thats from July of 2010. So from losses to profit, I can hardly see how that "wouldn't be turning out profitable" for them.
e.mote said:
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
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You both make good points.
Thats when these boards work best. When people actually think through all the facets of a topic and don't just devolve into an Apple good/Android Bad rant.
However, in response to the comment: "Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. "
Certainly it is,
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
That in turn was developed from an OS called Linux developed by Torvalds as an open source alternative to Windows.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
Edit: I agree with you that that this is virtually impossible for Motorola. But I would have thought it impossible for HP too and yet, they had the creative insight to buy palm, and now they are doing it. Probably will crash and burn, but bottom line is: They DID abandon android.
Digital Man said:
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
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I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
_RTFM_ said:
I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
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Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
Digital Man said:
Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
_RTFM_ said:
...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
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Sarcasm aside, no, I'm still not sure a search engine is the same as a hardware operating system....
Her is a good article supporting the alternative point of view however:
Moto ditching Android: Silly Rumor
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-developing-own-os-silly-rumor-20110325/
Note this line: Motorola is working on their own OS? What? Back that up. Several blogs are putting forth the rumor that Motorola’s friendship with Google is waning and that the cellphone manufacturer has been quietly hiring Apple and Adobe engineers with the aim of developing their own platform OS to compete with Android.
Note the part about quietly hiring from Apple and Adobe.
I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other here. I am primarily playing Devils Advocate by throwing the orignal topic out here for discussion, as it is something that people have been talking about quite a bit on Motorola hardware boards.
I was curious to see other peoples points of view on the story-rumor.
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
tinpusher said:
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
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Thanks for posting this.
I have to laugh. I started this thread, and in effect was accused of being a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin-foil hat. So it makes me feel better knowing that the guys over at Gizmodo have some pretty shiny head-gear as well.
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
th0r615 said:
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
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Oh hell, some companies like Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis. Remember the Kin phone? Here is a quote from an article by Engadget:
"While it's hard to argue that Kin is an awful product, the saddest part of the story is that many of the people responsible for it knew it was -- they were largely victims of political circumstance, forced to release a phone that was practically raw in the middle."
In the end they sold something like 500 of the things.
Remember the Dell streak releasing crippled with Android 1.6?
And then there was windows Vista....
Companies often do things that seem to make no rational business sense.
It would be crazy for them to abandon the platform that single handedly prevented them from going into bankruptcy... Motorola was doing horrible before they teamed up with Verizon and released the Droid OG. Which was an insanely popular device. Motorola should be thanking Verizon and Google for still having jobs right now...
They would be crazy to stop embracing android. Not only is it generating business like crazy (everyone has seen or heard of the enormous numbers of android products being sold, numbers that are unseating the existing leaders of the mobile os market), all indications are that android is still growing. Why abandon success?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Actually it's as simple as this.. Would you abandon an OS that has the second largest apps for mobile? It would be dumb for any company to do such a thing.. I mean think about it.. What other choices do you have?? WM7, RIM, Palm etc?? It would take years for them to catch up, apps wise.. Right now, what makes these phone manufacturer tick, is the apps behind it.. Hence, that's the reason why I chose Android when I left iphone.. The apps.. So I don't think Motorola would abandon Android and jump ship anytime soon.. Or at all, for that matter..
Yeah I agree. I don't see this happening anytime soon, if at all. Especially looking within a few years down the road.
Motorola should just concentrate on making better quality hardware and leave th software to people who know what they are doing. Motorola use to mean quality, now it's just another phone maker in a sea of the same devices running the same software with nothing really revolutionary to offer buyers. If moto could make an android device with the quality of their razor they would destroy the competition.
The rumor that Moto is hiring software egr's has a glimmer of truth (and subsequently embellished for tabloid consumption). Moto is learning that there is a downside to the Android gravy train, which every co and its sister is jumping onto, and that is lack of differentiation.
Co's are trying different things. Asus is doing the integrated keyboard with the Transformer. HTC has the active digitizer where you can use a stylus. Archos is leaning on its PMP roots with strong multimedia support. But for the majority, differentiation will be minimal (mostly a custom GUI). The main determinant will be price. In other words, Android tabs will be commodity status very soon. This is good for the consumers, but not for the vendors.
This isn't the smartphone market any more, where supply is constrained by the carriers playing as gatekeepers. Price competition will be intense, and slapping on a custom GUI (as has been the practice for smartphones) will no longer be enough. Premium brands in smartphones do not automatically translate to the tablet market.
It'll be a free-for-all. And the guys that win will be those with the best value-add, brand strength, and distribution muscle. For the first, you need software peeps. Which is why Moto is stocking up.
Digital Man said:
Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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This sentence does not make any sense
hi_its_ryan said:
This sentence does not make any sense
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Just saying that something doesn't make sense isn't very helpful. Try explaining WHY it doesn't make sense.
That would add something to the discussion.
http://www.ifans.com/blog/26252/
Found this yesterday. Why is Apple so (derogatory term)? What do u guys think? I personally love android and I have an ipod touch which even when u jailbreak and mod isn't nearly as customizable
Sent from your Mom's Jitterbug
That's crazy!!! How can apple patent data structure. Or whatever the hell they did. I swear apple is skynet. Apple sucks I will never buy any apple product. +1 to the zune (forget iPod)
Sent from my HTC EVO shift 4G running the latest and greatest cyanogen using the XDA app.
Apple is running out of ways to innovate I think so is going after the competition.
Evo_Shift said:
Apple is running out of ways to innovate I think so is going after the competition.
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More or less this. Apple isn't used to real competition and they are getting desperate.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Lol there just mad cus every new htc phone blows the iphone out of the water! They always try to innovate something thats been done.like there dual core chip sucks compared to the evo 3 d chip or other dual core phones and tablets.moneyhungry company wants all the money and to eliminate the competition noooot gunna happen i personally hate apple products theres too much to list about why they are overpriced and old technology that they claim to be breaking lol for example a 3k laptops p.c vs a macbook pro is not even a laughing matter its sad the p.c is way ahead in technology apples just trying to make people feel safe with there ****ty operating system that if u ask me sucks!!
southernstyle said:
http://www.ifans.com/blog/26252/
Found this yesterday. Why is Apple so (derogatory term)? What do u guys think? I personally love android and I have an ipod touch which even when u jailbreak and mod isn't nearly as customizable
Sent from your Mom's Jitterbug
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Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
After reading both patents and the portions of the claims made by Apple, I suppose the ITC is right. HTC does infringe on the patents, but so does every other computer and smartphone manufacturer.
In the first patent, what Apple seems to have been allowed to process is the method by which a computer can search for, identify, and allocate actions to strings of data in a system comprising of a processor, ram, and disk storage. Kind of like the context menu used in every operating system produced today that has a graphical interface.
The second patent is a little harder to understand. It claims that Apple's people invented what boils down to symmetric multiprocessing using a WAN, so long as the device being used to process this plurality of realtime services to and from a number of independent applications and devices is embodied by a hardware device with programmable software. Which also sounds like just about any computer currently made.
I think the ITC will overrule the initial decision, given that both of these patents are old and these practices are in use worldwide by every computing company. If this were upheld, I can't think of a single smartphone manufacturer that would be allowed to import devices anymore.
Evo_Shift said:
Apple is running out of ways to innovate I think so is going after the competition.
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I think this is squarely an attack on free culture and open source software. I mean, I don't see why WP7 isn't infringing on these patents either.
When your competitor is open source and royalty-free, the only way to compete is by making a better product. Although others may disagree, I think Android is a far superior product - Apple's operating system has to run on about 10 devices, a lot of which are no longer supported - and since it's open source, its mindshare is essentially infinite, and it will continue improving beyond Apple's products.
Apple's other problem is their walled-garden approach. The reason they lost all their mindshare is because they choose not to produce something viable for a wide-range of devices. That's the primary reason they lost so much mindshare and market share. They introduced a market and immediately cordoned themselves off to a corner of it before they even had any competitors! The door was wide open for a competitor and of course, Google stepped in. There were others of course, like HP, Palm, maybe Intel and Microsoft but they never got their act together. I still shed a tear every time I think of Nokia and Symbian.
Let's not forget that these inventions are mind-numbingly obvious. If someone texts you a number, obviously you would want to call it or save it, right? Not to mention that email clients and webbrowsers have been autoformatting websites and email addresses since the dawn of time, so there's ubiquitous prior art out there. The first patent should be struck down immediately. I don't even know what the second patent is supposed to be, but it sounds really vague and BS.
Finally, what HTC says is true. It's sad that Apple's wasting not only their own resources, but all their enemies' resources as well on legal fees. What this is showing is that patent litigation is hampering innovation rather than stimulating it. In a fast-moving field like mobile development, where products are long since obsolete once they expire, software patents make no sense, they only hamper innovation, and they should be banned.
I agree, anyone ever thought of submitting a formal response to the lawsuit. I'm sure it it went to every xda forum we could a bunch of support. Its not perfect but its how out law system works. Lol, the ball has to start somewhere ya know?
Sent from my HTC EVO shift 4G running the latest and greatest cyanogen using the XDA app.
I agree with the point that Apple is not being innovative and scared of the competition. IOS hasn't changed at all, the devices are all by Apple and they are too locked down. Android is open source there are a good number of manufacturers which give ppl options. I own an iPod touch and its nice for playing music but theres really nothing to it. Most ppl who own apple products don't know anything about them. I know a lot of ppl who think that since its called iPhone 4G, they get 4G data. Now I can say that Apple started a huge thing with capacitive screens and the whole touch screen and apps, but a good business should keep coming up with new things instead of saying here's what we made, this is all you get, and everyone thinks its the best.
Sent from your Mom's Jitterbug
Thoughts ??
Things like this goes on all the time... usually a hefty fine takes care of things
Although Android is by Google... why is Apple sueing HTC ??
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...y_spell_trouble_for_other_android_makers.html
UnicornKaz said:
Thoughts ??
Things like this goes on all the time... usually a hefty fine takes care of things
Although Android is by Google... why is Apple sueing HTC ??
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...y_spell_trouble_for_other_android_makers.html
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Apple is always suing nowadays. Which is completely retarded. Jobs likes to say it's better to steal than to copy or invent, yet his company is constantly trying to stop other companies from doing what he did. He's the biggest hypocrite and I feel terribly for his children that will probably end up with a load of mental problems (just like daddy).
rorytmeadows said:
Apple is always suing nowadays. Which is completely retarded. Jobs likes to say it's better to steal than to copy or invent, yet his company is constantly trying to stop other companies from doing what he did. He's the biggest hypocrite and I feel terribly for his children that will probably end up with a load of mental problems (just like daddy).
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Best comment ever!!!!
UnicornKaz said:
Thoughts ??
Things like this goes on all the time... usually a hefty fine takes care of things
Although Android is by Google... why is Apple sueing HTC ??
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...y_spell_trouble_for_other_android_makers.html
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They're suing HTC because HTC became owners of S3 Graphics and Apple infringes on S3's patents. It's a preemptive strike to force HTC into settlement.
It's sort of a test the waters thing....Notice the timing. If they win, great! Because they get to snuff HTC out for a bit in the U.S until the appeals go to court. This could block HTC from getting phones into the U.S when the rumored iPhone 4S/iPhone 5 is released. If they lose, they can keep trying and tying HTC up...it is likely HTC WILL settle and some deal will be made so Apple is 'safe' using the S3 patents and HTC is safe using the Apple patents.
I'm sure on some level Apple is threatened by HTCs growth, I mean they have truly boomed big time in terms of sales and sheer proliferation of devices. There's not 1, but several HTC devices on every carrier and now they are making tablets too. The price of being popular is becoming a blip on Apple's suedar.
Google isn't liable for any of these lawsuits because they don't make a device and they don't sell Android. Any problem with the licensing falls to manuf. primarily who sell devices with Android on them. Microsoft is also going after device manuf. which use Android because it also owns patents that Android 'infringes' on. Don't get me wrong, they CAN go after Google but it would be a long drawn out mess that wouldn't benefit them in the least. It is better to go after the smaller guys who are likely to settle in the form of royalties or cross-patents with snazzy patents they may own themselves.
In the end, it's just business. It's deceptive, sneaky and ugly, but it's business.
Bottom line, Apple's feeling the heat & very threatened .
Pathetic....
Most of us are now aware that the sale of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablets have been blocked in Europe (at least for now) by an injunction in favor of Apple's lawsuit...now it appears they are suing Motorola in Europe as well.
(Source: FOSS)
Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16511779#post16511779
That's why I bought my wife a xoom now.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
>Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
That'd be true in two months, regardless.
>Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation
Honestly, you're ranting. That's fine, if it makes you feel better, although not sure why you should feel worse. It's big companies fighting it out. Let them.
Give the judge the benefit of the doubt for competence. If the suit was frivolous, Apple wouldn't have secured an injunction. Whatever legal merit the suit has, frankly, we don't know. Getting upset about it doesn't make us understand it any better.
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
inspiron41 said:
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
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My rant:
Likewise. I bought the second Gen iPod when they were a decent company. Then they got in their mind that they can take over the world (which they might) but I think that is very indecent to innovation. I have never had such a hatred to one company and always will.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
It's about time Apple tried to sue someone with a strong patent portfolio. As long as Motorola don't roll over, Apple *are* going to get a bloody nose, because suing over patents nowadays seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of your case.
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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So you're saying is it would be OK to live in a dictatorship country if it was pretty and had good weather?
Sure Apple makes good products, however there are very good if not better alternatives. Apple improves on one product in the market and makes it incredible. Then other companies start making the products better as well and Apple sues them. Happened to mp3 players and iPods, now happening for tablets and iPads. It hurts innovation and I know Google and Microsoft also sue companies but not as much and not as narrow minded/take over the market mentality that Apple has. Now don't get me wrong I have owned Apple before, and yes their products are well made and innovative. But so are a lot of other brands.
But I do agree on the grander scheme of things if we arn't just talking tech toys that yes it is not a good idea to be narrow minded on anything. I believe that's what you were trying to get at.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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You are saying this as if it is a new phenomenon.
======short version========
Put simply, it is easier to deal with absolutes and it is easier to convey opinion to others in absolutes.
======long version========
It is human nature to ally with a particular group, society, or set of ideals and denigrate the things that differ from the ideal you are allied with. Countries, religions, sports teams, type of car.... the list is as long as there are comparable objects. It is possible for people to see in shades of right rather than absolutes but this provides no stable platform on which to hang a set of beliefs.
- It is far easier to say "Motorola is incompetent and I will never use them again" than it is to say "Motorola made some serious mistakes with the Xoom but they did do some things right."
- It is easier to say "Motorola is out to screw early Xoom adopters." than it is to say "Motorola is not communicating well with early Xoom adopters."
- It is easier to say "thou shall not kill" than it is to say "thou shall not kill unless it is needed to preserve other life"
- It is easier to say "Other religions are wrong" than it is to say "other religions are different."
- and it is easier to say "Apple is evil" than it is to say "Apple's stance on the similarity between the iPad and Xoom is not reasonable."
Absolutes allow a person to place an idea, group, or company into a position within opinion that requires less thought and little debate. This is comforting to most, requires less consideration, and makes life easier to deal with. The more you deal with a specific idea/group/company the more details you learn and the less likely you are to paint your opinion on the subject with such broad strokes. No one wants to try and know everything in such detail however.
So while it would be better if mankind as a whole took an effort to see the merit in differing opinions on subjects, it is not the nature of man. To try and remove the polarizing nature of the psyche would possibly lead to less conflict but it would also to moral and ethical confusion.
There have been and are individuals who have evolved past this need but those individuals are not common, indeed the most notable have been quite extraordinary.
Here is one take on the patent issue that underlies the various recent legal spats. The commentary delves into more detail than the usual regurgitated pap, and the arguments made are reasonable, at least based on the material as presented.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/11/broken-patent-system/
http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...obile-devices/news/376718/1621537#post1621537
DaniWeb can reveal exactly what it is that Apple thinks Samsung has copied, and we hope you are sitting down because the actual community design images contained within that certification are basic to say the least.
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so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
_delice_doluca_ said:
so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
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I don't think you need to worry. Get the Xoom for your girlfriend. If you root it (or even if not) you will continue to have plenty of support for your tablet from this community as well as from Google/Moto. I just think that Apple is not allowed to take over the world. We have to take a stand some time, somewhere.
nooomoto said:
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
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What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
rockhumper said:
What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
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Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
okantomi said:
Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
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Totally agree on using better negative terms...I would actually call them "smug and arrogant" more than anything else.
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whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
MitchRapp said:
whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
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That's a pretty extreme statement.
Apple has the best marketing in the tech world. They also have some decent products, with plenty of objective reasons to choose Apple over the alternatives.
However, remember that marketing is simply making people aware of a product and its features.
I find when talking to people that decisions on platform aren't made over which commercial was the coolest, but rather the features and/or familiarity with the brand.
I would argue that very few people are so superficial as to choose a platform based on "hip"-ness.
The real problem here is not Apple. Whatever you think of iOS, they are just a company using every tool at their disposal to succeed. If roles were reversed any company would do the same.
The problem is a hopelessly broken, pitifully antiquated Patent system that allows absurd patents to be approved.
This problem is compounded by the abuse of "patent troll" companies that never developed a technology or released a product, but simply bought patents and create lawsuits.
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For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
DeadSOL said:
For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
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Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
Actually this video (as some of you would have probably already seen) would be more relevant: especially @4:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-KS2kfIr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I remember that 1994 Steve Jobs interview when he basically admits he steals ideas, but that was when Apple were really struggling so didn't have investors and shareholders that would have shot him in the kneecaps if he said the same thing recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
---------- Post added at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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American courts, American company.
Do you think Johnny Foreigner is ever gonna get a fair trial against a huge American company like Apple? I mean big business always funds election campaigns over there so companies like Apple have basically bought shares in USA plc.
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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The lawyers are horrible. It is easy to defend that. All they need is to get a hand on any documents that show Apple researching Windows OS because everyone knows everyone, including Apple researches other companies.
The recent Samsung documents telling the designers how the Galaxy S should differ from the iPhone are a real blow to the whole case, in my opinion. That's what has to stand the brunt of the attack now.
Also, one of Samsung's documents was rejected by the court. I think they brought it in too late. That's why they leaked it to the public. Ah, Samsung. What are you doing to yourselves?!
Has the whole world gone mad or just America? **** Apple. They will repeat history.. come and go.
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I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S (mainly i9000 model) from the iPhone. The first thought that came into my head when they revealed the phone was "why does it look like an iphone inside and out?" I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone...even down to the touchwiz icons and UI.
With that being said, the US patent system needs a complete overhaul to stop these frivolous suits and the Supreme Court needs to set precedence once and for all.
Todays consumer are smart. They know what they are buying. A small boy will differentiate sammy from apple. Grow up apple
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I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S
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Korean, japanese and russian companies all have the same principle: first copy a device, then optimize and extend it so much with the gained experience that it becomes superior to the original.
The Chinese unfortunately are not quite there yet - mainly due to lack of hightech but it won't be long.
I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone
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Sadly only from looks. It was sooooo sloooooow even though it's based on good hardware, mainly because Samsung decided to go with their RFS and other software issues.
For those of you who haven't seen the video
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The main problem with the video is that they exclude software, where Apple (partially more or less involuntarely since they base on FOSS software) has contributed lots of patches and extensions to existing standards and helped push new ones. Google's Chrome for instance would at least have had a much harder start if not for Apple's Safari and the resulting changes in the Webkit engine.
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
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dr.m0x said:
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
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The universal search patent is especially retarded.
This has always been my bugbear with patent law. Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!). However, the simple solution would be to do what LG and Sony already do and that is pay the damned patent license. Yes it increases overall handset cost but not significantly.
It's sad when you consider the patents would have only added on about $5 to the cost of each handset. I doubt anyone would have said "oh man, the s3 is great, but its $5 bucks over my budget".
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andyl66 said:
Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!).
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Wrong. It may very well be the case that Apple are suing over technology that overlaps with others patents, but it should not be doing so because it does not have the right to sue over patents it has licensed from others. From a legal standpoint they are anything but Apple's patents.
Even Intellectual Property licensed with the explicit intention of allowing a third-party to sue over the IP, isn't valid for a suit (big case on that in recent years).
Licensing means I say "Okay you can use my spatula when you need it in exchange for your mother's bra". It doesn't mean if on some other occasion someone else has it you can scream "Thief!! That spatula doesn't belong to you, give it back!" At the end of the day it's still my spatula so I can still give it to whomever else I want, and if someone steals it, that's my concern not yours.
Same thing: the patents are still Nokia's. The absolute best Apple could do is pressure Nokia into suing. You cannot sue on someone else's behalf except in exceptional cases like the would-be plaintiff is under-age, or dead.
Well, whatever the case may be, we all know that Apple is a crap company and it's trying to threaten our beloved Android. I love the fact that Android is open-source. I love the fact that Android-based devices are popping up everywhere. Nikon has made an Android-based camera. Isn't it lovely when all your devices use the same software? Isn't it amazing that we can legally hack these devices and modify them? Thank you Google for being such a friendly company!
This section is for the discussion of the SGS3, not for apple nonsense.
Closed.