Database Users

is this true ??HTCClassAction.org

Hi
I have read this http://htcclassaction.org/
If this is true???

It is true

there is no way to fix it with a cooked rom? or maybe with a cooked rom wm6.1??

I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM

gears said:
I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM
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really disappointed!

So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?

mini_man said:
So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?
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Yes
I really hope HTC does something about this.

Same.
It's a bit pathetic really.

I was just about to buy this device next week, but knowing this I'm nor that sure anymore. I really hope they fix it, and (from the looks of HTCClassAction) they will

Is this because of the graphics accelerator? I thought htc were going to make a fix?

Uh. Impressive. What the hell's wrong with HTC? Being the "biggest" is good enough, so they don't give a ****?
A partial reason for me to buy the dual instead of the original Touch was because I wanted optimal ****** performance, and then it turns out that we've been royally ****** probably because they want to save money?

I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...

NetrunnerAT said:
I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...
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Click to collapse
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver

Midget_1990 said:
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver
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Yeah.. I think ASUS P525 uses qualcomm but it functions perfectly.
HTC has been getting away with this since the TyTN... so now they've been doing it on all of their succeeding devices.

Update on htclassaction.org:
Update January 20, 2008: One person reported HTC support telling him an update would be released within a week. Let's wait and see!
Update January 20, 2008 #2: Another report has come on from that HTC support has said an update will be released January 28, no further details.
Update January 20, 2008 #3: One HTC support employee has stated that he guarantees they are working on fix for the video issues. It is unclear if by video issues only video playback is meant or the complete video driver package.
Another thread on Kaiser:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534

NICE! Too bad I was unaware of all these problems when I got my Touch Dual :\ it really is slow!

I also astonished how slow my Touch Dual is. I cannot believe that it takes to open a over 50 seconds to open 56 kb Word document. My Loox 720 PDA can open the same document in around less than 2 seconds. It certainly is not due to lack of free memory.
Word mobile is a business essential, not a multimedia toything and it should be capable of opening small documents quickly. The Loox is running WM2003SE and uses Pocket Word in which format the document is 115 kb. Is Word 6.1 slower than Pocket Word?

According to The Boy Genius Report, HTC isn't terribly interested in fixing the issue. This is the first response that has had any hint of officialness about it and it's not encouraging in the least.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/22/htcs-official-response-to-drivergate-buzz-off/

Does the Touch HD hardware support TV-out?

Hi guys. I'm sure this question's been asked many times before:
The non TV-out "problem", is it because of the lack of hardware, or software?

No one knows?

No, there is no TV out port on this device. Google "HTC Athena" and look at its picture to see how a TV-out look like.
Cheers.

Apparently it does but needs the appropriate Qualcomm driver to enable it. And HTC weren't prepared to licence it (along with video acceleration) - allegedly!

No, the Touch HD does NOT have HARDWARE support for TV-Out.
This has confirmed previously by HTC, quoted somewhere here on the forums.
TV-Out is not gonna happen for the Touch HD!

Ruudfood said:
Apparently it does but needs the appropriate Qualcomm driver to enable it. And HTC weren't prepared to licence it (along with video acceleration) - allegedly!
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They are two unrelated matters, I think. You don't need the driver to enable it. Athena does not have the driver, but has the TV out.

Windows Mobile 7 announced for the HD ?

Hello all, Windows Mobile 7 is announced to be available this year. It seems that it will be a lot more "finger friendly". The Touch HD would fit it very well.
In fact, I'm currently a Kaiser owner, and I planned to buy a Touch HD but I'm a bit disapointed (as always with HTC !!!) about its graphical performances.
Touch HD owners still need to convert video files for the Touch HD to read them at a good speed ... A shame !!!! I had an Axim x50v 4 years ago which was able to read any VGA DivX without any convertion and it was really fast, no lags.
So I can deal with the bad video performances (I already do with my Kaiser ...) but I need a major change in the general usage of the device compared to my Kaiser.
That's why I would be glad to see Windows Mobile 7 announced for the Touch HD, it may be the thing which would decide me to buy a Touch HD.
Does anyone know if HTC plan to upgrade the Touch HD with Windows Mobile 7 when it will be available ?
Thanks !

Windows 7?
Where? I thought was delayed for 2010 and that they will release soon windows 6.5... Did I miss something

In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
EDIT : New news -> you're right, wm 6.5 announced to come before 7 ... 7 delayed for 2010 ...

dizzy33 said:
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
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what you read is incorrect. WM7 is for 2010, Q4 of 2009 at the EARLIEST. and to your original question. WM7 may require a different set of hardware to be completely finger friendly, ie no more resistive touch screen. but that's not to say people here can't hack it and port it to a legacy product (ie. touch HD) by the time WM7 comes out

About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...

Hm, i think the 6.5 will be published in Spring/Summer 09, so it could be possible.
Greets
John

i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile

kerni said:
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
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Where did u see this.

And sorry to take the air out your balloon
Turb0wned said:
Where did u see this.
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Fact:
He totaly made that up, there have been some renderings of what the G2 MAY look like and many people took it upon themselves to photoshop The Beast running the Android OS. Don't get your hopes up.
(My) Sepculation:
You'll probably see the G1 come out with 5 more colors, and 10 more OTAs before you ever find out what a G2 looks like.
Sources:
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/948774282
Not to mention that HTC specifically said that they did not manufacture the Black Stone with a radio module supporting the US 3G frequencies. So I doubt T-Mobile would Market any device going foward as running on G2/Edge
I hope you find this helpful (And sorry to take the air out your balloon)

dizzy33 said:
I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor
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Hmm. Camera tracking applications kill the battery _very_ quickly and obviously don't work in bad light conditions or against blank surfaces with no pattern.
The HD has a g-sensor anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.

i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months

dizzy33 said:
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the time stamp sais your last edit was after my post. but regarding the hardware difference: microsoft never specifies the HW requirement to end customers because we don't get to purchase the OS. they do specify to the manufactures of the phones. it's the same reason why your PC hardware requirement changes for Windows 2000 and Windows Vista. I'm sure you can some what run Vista on a machine built for Win 2K, but your experience will be limited. So I was just saying that some hackers here can port the WM7 to Touch HD, even though Touch HD is not designated to run WM7.
Requirement wise, I am _speculating_ that it will need a better CPU/graphics chip, amongst other things. the current Qualcomm chip 's graphic capability just plain sucks, the CPU power also isn't the best. Horse power by horsepower, a Qualcomm 500 MHz is much slower than a Marvel/Intel PXA 500 Mhz. I believe WM7 will have more graphics requirement: here's my logic:
- Up till WM6.1 (possibly 6.5), the max resolution supported is 800x480 (which is ok), but he color depth is only 65000, which is low. Iphone supports 262000, i'm sure MS will be going after at least that.
- ever since phones/PDA moved form QVGA to VGA and WVGA, the graphics suffered, and understandbly so. though not microsoft's fault directly. people started saying "my WM phone/PDA is slow" and put the blame on MS. So MS will be clearing their name and restricting manufactures from putting their OS on a non-suitable device
so the above two points just to show you in the graphics department there may be a HW requirement. can you run it on a phone that doesn't fit the requirement? suuuuure, just that the experience won't be as good.
and finally, the news yesterday confirmed my suspicious is that HTC just dumped Qualcomm (not 100% dump though) as the sole CPU/chip provider due to their performance. Given that a product stays in incubation (for prototyping QA, testing, beta, etc etc) for 6 to 8 month before it hits the market. I believe HTC is prototyping the new devices with WM6.5 and perhaps even WM7, and found the performance with Qualcomm chip lacking. hence hardware requirement.

Site your sources.
adsno_1 said:
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
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I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
If you read my previous post you'll see an official announcement from HTC themselves supporting my comment.
The HTC will not see the light of day in the United States, In the US there are 2 GSM Carriers ATT and T-Mobile
ATT won't relesase because it directly competes (and probably breeches) their contract with Apple
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Site your sources before you make such claims sir.

adsno_1 said:
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
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That comment is a joke, where are you sources.

I guess there are a lot of Wishful thinkers on this thread.

fnordelus said:
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
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What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/

Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
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You're absolutely right, that's my bad!
I actually did forget that T-Mobile is outside of the US, please excuse my stroke of ignorance.
I feel extra stupid because I actually have a German-T-Mobile Branded MDA Pro that I had to replace the keyboard for (to a qwerty keybord)
Me <---- Fail!

Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
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Aditionally, you're double right!
Becuase T-Mobile UK does have a history of releasing beefy smarthphones, I just got my ass handed to me.
When it comes to mobile devices (my passion) it SUCKS to be an American.
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?" or even worse "Is that an iPhone imitation?"
So, again, excuse my stroke of ignorance.

fnordelus said:
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?"
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HAHA oh man I get the same thing all the time!
The annoying thing is it's surprisingly hard to say "HTC Touch HD" properly coherantly without sounding weird due to the cacophony of hard syllables!
Something interesting to note about WiMo 6.5 and the Touch HD is in reference to Pocket Internet Explorer 6. Microsoft have stated that their new mobile browser won't be released for use on any device due to hardware limitations of current devices - but there HAS been a ROM released by a microsoft developer for the Touch HD ONLY that DOES include the new Pocket IE...
My theory is that 6.5 will be held by microsoft for use on higher spec future handsets only, but the Touch HD will be allowed a possibly semi-official update. (maybe in the guise of a ROM by a microsoft developer like PIE6)
Something else to bear in mind, the Hermes was in mid life cycle when WiMo6 was released and HTC duly released a free upgrade from the pre-existing version 5 so there's a possibility they might do something similar for the HD.
All speculation and hope of course...

Here are some images of what WM7 might look like. Check out the Word 2007 picture. It looks like it has a lot of menu options.
http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/07/windows-mobile-7-images-leaked/

Petition for full activation of multitouch

As the title already said, can we start a petition to demand HTC to come with an update to enable multitouch?
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with the hardware, it's just missing the multitouch api/driver or whatever.
I mean, it does work on some third party apps like opera, HTC Sense itself is a thirdparty app, with wm6.5 under its hood. It can be done, but what drives them not the fully support it?
Here is why, maybe:
They don't have a license for multitouch? It resembles the case a few years ago, when they came with a device, don't remember wich one anymore, but it performed terrible without the appropiate drivers because of HTC didn't licensed the drivers for it. Eventually, HTC bought the license and everything was settled.
I am sure that either MS or HTC has the code to do it, but for some reason, they just delivered a crippled touch screen device. I'd much rather would have no pinch and zoom at all, and have a stylus instead. Pinch and zoom is such a useles feature actually, i mean, for zooming into a picture or webpage, you need to have two hands to operate. One hand to hold the device and the other to pinch and zoom, while a double tap can be done with just one hand. If I need to operate the device with both hands, then at least me let me do so by controlling some on screen buttons to play a game.
HTC, i really like your efforts, but with a screen so huge and being capacitive, I think you could've done a better job. MS, license that damn multitouch.
So erm.... who's with me?

Man, don't be crazy. It's not just a matter of drivers, it's a matter of support within each and every application. What do you expect from HTC, that they rewrite all WM code out there?

Has any petition for HTC actually achieved anything? Not to my knowledge and I have seen a few knocking about.
I thought opera would support pinch zoom and double tap?

How can you petition HTC when WM 6.5 doesnt support multitouch? You will have to wait for WM7 for system wide support, at the moment pinch and zoom will have to do

Even when WM7 supports it, applications will still have to learn what to do with it.

I seem to remember commenting on this subject before in the original Leo thread. Seems I was right. No full multi touch then.

Well iÍ am pretty sure he meant that HTC should release some kind of developer kits for multitouch drivers (or pinch to zoom drivers to not call it multitouch cuz of license), also a compass kit would be great. So developers actualy could use multitouch function (like pinch to zoom) in theirs app.
Anyways, petition will not work, but what damage will it do to create it and sign it? I would sign it right away, it actualy might have impact on HTC (or on devs to reverse engineere it).

Maybe a petition will not make it, but developers and other enthusiast are welcome to have their say on this and express their feelings and I bet we're all dissapointed that there is no multitouch on the HD2. It is their.... but HTC and or MS has to unleash it. and it always invloves money... you may not think so... but these are bussinesmen. And yes, I meant that it would be better if HTC or MS turned us into the right direction regarding multitouch api's and drivers. If these are in, then the apps will follow soon enough. wich developer would not make their app multitouch capable? every developers does, just provide them with the code, HTC/MS.

hyellow said:
wich developer would not make their app multitouch capable?
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Probably developers whose apps don't need it. Which is about every app apart from the browser and the picture viewer really - maybe also a couple others. Games are a different story though, but I'm sure that if EA wanted to they would find a way to get the information they need from HTC.

The main thing there is the emulators like FpseCE. Well for now it looks like it does support real multitouch. But we will have to get developer kit ourselves.

KowboyBebop said:
Well iÍ am pretty sure he meant that HTC should release some kind of developer kits for multitouch drivers (or pinch to zoom drivers to not call it multitouch cuz of license), also a compass kit would be great. So developers actualy could use multitouch function (like pinch to zoom) in theirs app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again this was discussed a monthe or so back, HTC will not be releasing an SDK for this.
I only hope the devs on here can help (they're good like that )
Mav

Yup they wont. But this petition should be to tell them that they should. And thats it. It will not work, but we can do as much "just in case". Signing petition with our wish written in is not gonna hurt right?

Utterly useless really.
Who is going to want to invest the time, energy, and money required in producing a proper API and related documentation etc. for the sake of one particular possible use of one model of phone for one year (before WM7 is out)? It's not even as if every single app could benefit from multitouch, either. Keyboards and games mostly, and there's currently not an enormous amount of either out for WM.
A big kludgey hack to shoehorn multitouch into an OS not designed for it, on a device where it's not an advertised feature... I can just see why HTC would be rushing to put this out there, and the software houses rushing to code specifically for it. Everyone's just waiting for WM7 where this will (hopefully!) be uniform, consistant, and part of the underlying OS.
I'd rather they put the effort into giving us an official ROM of 6.5.x when the time comes, or pretty much nything more useful.

Maybe I haven't read the thread well enough but my Leo seems to support multitouch... It's the sense that doesn't make use of this. But then again I haven't found it useful yet to open photo an video at the same time...

Post was made after Leo users tryed FPSeCE and they couldnt press 2 onscreen buttons, but the FPSeCE supports multitouch. After some tests the multitouch was confirmed. But to have apps to use multitouch they have to directly work with drivers. And this petition would want HTC to release SDK for it. Thats about it. Probably will NOT work, but we can at least sign it, cant we?

I don't think the petition will go anywhere. Everyone knows that this generation of window mobile is on the way to the graveyard, so microsoft is not going to throw money at it. Also, if you are a developer, would you still develop multitouch application to run on only ONE device with so few potential sales? Or would you develop for Android and iPhone while waiting for WM7 to come out?
So, let's just wait for WM7 and see if we get multitouch.

So in other words, multitouch works only in the browser (pinch-zoom), but when it comes to typing it doesn't support it? When it comes to typing texts with the keyboard...I take it, it is not like the multitouch that is found on the iphone?

That is correct.

Sc4Freak said:
That is correct.
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That is a serious buzzkill. I was banking on this phone having no lag or even having multi-touch when it came to typing. Maybe after some hands on time, some people who have received theirs can compare the typing speeds to that of the iPhone.

I believe that developing multitouch appz for one single device, isn't that bad after all. The experience they gather, can be usefull, when winmo 7 is out. if they develop now, then maybe it can be adapted more easily to winmo 7. And i don't think the HD2 will be the only device of HTC sporting a capacitive touchscreen for the next six months. I foresee, at least a couple more, like succesor to the diamond and pro series.

directx 9 on hd2

does the gpu of hd2 is powerful enough to handle directx 9 announced as requirement for wp7

I was wondering the same thing the other day and couldn't find any official spec sheets. I asked over in one of the threads in the WP7s forums and I got the idea that OpenGL ES 2.0 was supported, which was 'basically the same.'

does any one know any useful info

http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.

For that specific chipset (MSM7850) they claim DX9 support on page 31.
Their old chip (7500) supports DX7.
Since that was 2007, we can presume they've maintained similar compatibility in their newer (8250) chipset, yes?

Missed that bit, now all we need is a driver </sarcasm> for the humour impaired.

[sarcasm]obviously MS is aiming really high this time..
DX9 compatible portable devices, that use huge amounts of power so they can do what?
render a load of bloody text!
whoopppeee !
[/sarcasm]

so tje final answer is that hd2 gpu is enough for directx 9 or what?

The only correct answer to anything around here is, that noone knows nothing at all!
We can't run DX9 on WMPS7 so what ever?!
Before everyone freaks out, about fckn WMPS7, why not wait until you really see something?
Actually all the previews by microsoft were pretty ****ty! The phones worked pretty slow, I dont like that "hub" thing, and they are limited to the ground!
Thats what I would call "YaI" -> Yet another Iphone...
I'm loving WM6 and the only OS I'll be switching to, if WM6 dies (what i dont think, cuz there are more programmers who like WM6) will be android, but not another limited bull**** os

VisualD said:
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.
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Click to collapse
after reading i think it supports it