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Is it possible/safe to connect an external battery of same voltage but different mAh directly to the internal battery of a tablet to raise its mAh?
I am thinking about moding a tablet case to have a built in battery pack for my Iconia a500 tablet. I can easily squeeze 4 cell phone batteries in between the folds and make two 3.6v 3000mAh(or higher) battery pack with out adding much bulk or weight to it. can probably squeeze a usb hub in there too while i am at it.
I looked at the internal battery and it looks like i can splice its wires and add a connector to hook to the two 3.6v packs for easy connection.
I don't know much about electronics, but from my limited knowledge and layman point of view, as far as the tablet is concerns, it will just have a higher capacity battery, wont it?
can it be done safely without any other electronic components?
I'm not expert in that matter, but I think there's LiIon battery, and AFAIK it may make some confusement to your Fuel Gauge IC and Battery Charging IC, as these are probably calibrated to work with that certain battery type and capacitance. But I don't believe it may damage something if you connect it paralelly.
I would be careful with that if I were you. While it seems simple enough, batteries are much more complex than just voltage and capacity.
Most of the time, external batteries just go through the charging connection of the device so it can handle the power itself. If you connect it directly, you may bypass some part of the charging circuit (often times there's a circuit in the battery itself). Basically, I'm thinking the batteries may not fully charge or one will overcharge. It really depends on how it's set up. I'm not an expert with the design of rechargeable batteries though, so it may be safe.
In short, I would suggest connecting the batteries to the charger to extend your battery life. I'm sure others can offer additional insight.
A good read about batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/serial_and_parallel_battery_configurations
I can't comment on if it will work or if it is safe..
cellphone batteries have a built in protection to prevent them from overcharging or discharging, don't they?
The problem i have with connecting to the charging port is that it needs 12v. connecting 3 or 4 of battereis will give me either too little or too much volt. cant get 12v out of 3.7v batteries with out some kind of additional electronic parts to regulate the voltage. I don't have the sufficient knowledge to do that. this is why i figured ill do it directly. And charging would be simpler too if i can use the charger to charge both the internal and the external batteries at the same time.
Was hopping to hear from someone who did that already. I guess no one is brave/dumb enough to try it.
Sounds intresting looking forward for it
In a "perfect" environment this would be possible.
The inner resistance and voltage difference of the different batteries would even out the different capacity while charging.
You can avoid having these currents between the batteries by using diodes to separate the charging currents.
However my recommendations in terms of reliability, safety and efficiency is to use two or more batteries with the same capacity and dis-/charging curve.
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
ridethisbike said:
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
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On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
samotronta05 said:
On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
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Click to collapse
ah, well it seems to me that if the battery has to take action, then you're doing it wrong.
I'm not sure exactly how diodes work so I can't comment on that, but definitely use like batteries (two 3000mAh batteries as opposed to one 3000mAh and one 3600mAh) as to not confuse the device about the charge, causing the 3600 to not get fully charged. just make sure they get connected properly (in parallel) and it should work just fine.
in reality its no different than someone using 4 car batteries to power their car audio system. as long as its done properly (in parallel), there is really no harm.
I wouldn't recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter. It is likely that the regulation and protection are minimal if they only expect the internal battery. There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels. So this isn't the recommend method.
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
You can... as far as u meet these requirements.
1) notice ur original battery voltage..
2) buy some same kind of them, or u may use others, provided the voltage is same. If u can find higher watt-hour( current) battery of same voltage, go for it.
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
4) if u cant find a higher capacity batt of same voltage, go for parallels. Ie join together the positives of two or more batt, and also join together their negatives too.. connect it to the batt terminals of tab,
5) no problems will be caused if u use high current batt, provided u have suited the correct voltage. In ur case u have to ensure proper voltage only. And current can increase to any value.. the system takes only what its needed.
6) the sad thing is it will take more time for charging. But never try to increase the charging current. It will damage the power section. But increase ur patients. Most of the tabs got 1-1.5 amp charger. Never increase the limits.
U may go for it. If u can manage these...
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
giritrobbins said:
I would recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter.
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Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
giritrobbins said:
There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels.
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Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
giritrobbins said:
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
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Which would make it even more inefficient.
showlyshah said:
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
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You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
samotronta05 said:
Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
Which would make it even more inefficient.
You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
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Click to collapse
The issue when you connect them like that will always occur when they are in parallel (you need to add some logic or some diodes in there). Using the same ampacity battery will mitigate it to a point but the internal resistance of a battery will dictate how fast it drains down.
As for the charging, that isn't what i am saying. The internal circuitry that he cannot change is expecting a certain battery with certain characteristics. Putting a second battery in there in parallel will potentially mess with that stuff. If it doesn't realize the size of all the attached battery it will register a fault because it won't be charging correctly.
He isn't going for efficiency here. And a linear regulator is easy, if we want efficient we can do that too. I was just suggesting an alternative that could be easily done.
And the most important point is not about voltages but about chemistry. Different chemistry have different voltages and different knees where they drop suddenly.
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
ronkoni said:
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
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Hey why are u going to make a 14.8v batt pack when urz original ones are 7.4??? I dont realy understand the logic. If u have extra batt, then make the pack like this
Batt pack of 7.4v × 2 and connect them in parallel, thatz all, no need to modify charging circuits, no need to regulate the voltage, and no loss in voltage/ current,
But if u make a high voltage pack, u have to regulate the o/p with some ic, and in turn u will suffer some v/c drop.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
ronkoni said:
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-fem...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f0cd836f3#ht_2792wt_902
that actually took me a lot longer to find than I had originally planned... lol. of course.... you're going to have to find the rest of your charger. but that'll be easy with that adapter
So its a about making a batt pack which u can connect to the tab via charging port? And use it like a backup when u r out of power?
If its ur idea, you may tell about the size of the pack, and how long u need to use it( ie backup time), if u do, i will find out the solution, also post ur current batt and charger spec.
And hope i can help with some circuits too..
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
the idea is to have a battery pack that can fit in between the layers of the stand part of this tablet's case. the available space I want to use is about 2"x9" so since the space is limited, the batteries must be the flat type and be able to get 12v out of them and be able to charge them externally.
this is the original tablet battery and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
4x Samsung i9000 1500mAh batteries fits perfectly. and since i already got 2 extra ones laying around, might as well go with these batteries. unless it is possible to get 12v out of 3 batteries. then i can probably use 3 Samsung note 2500mAh batteries instead.
so, what circuitry do i need to make this thing power the tablet and get charged?
thought about getting one of these battery packs, take it apart and replace its batteries with mine. since it already got the necessary circuitry for regulating the voltage and for charging, it would cut down on the guess work and probably be cheaper to build. i think they use 3 batteries in there which would be better.
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
mengagumkan said:
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
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Click to collapse
So the question is?
@UP:
It isn't forum for questions only.
@OP:
The second concern might be charging and fuel gauge, try to find out what are those ICs in your tablet, get datasheets and check if they need to have batt characteristics programmed by CPU, you might need to change parameters passed to them.
I would be very careful modifying the batteries. Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
Even when they're used normally they have a bad habit of blowing up.
xHausx said:
Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
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Umm, if we're talking about cellphone's batteries. No they don't (at least not in phone models I've been studying). All I've seen in this class of batteries so far is +, - and thermistor pad (and sometimes NFC Antenna), everything else is calculated by fuel gauge and charging ICs, basing on the batt parameters they get from CPU and calibration data.
The thermistor should be monitored by the device, but afaik all li-ion batteries must have control circuitry to make sure they are charged correctly. Batteries with multiple cells also need it to balance usage and charging.
Of course there's always the exception, but li-ions are by their nature unstable, so caution is still advised when doing anything with them. A quick search of YouTube shows a lot about what they're capable of.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906144
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/
Curious whether handsets provide charge management so that lithium ion batteries get charged properly. -Or whether handset makers expect battery chargers to provide this function.
I want to build a solar charger for 5-volt devices such as cellphone handsets. A quick search of the web produces numerous simple, easily constructed circuits, but all seem to provide continuous 5 volts without performing any voltage or current tapering to complete a charge per recommendations of the battery industry.
FWIW: I intend to design the device using Radio Shack components. I intend the photovoltaic cell to first charge standard, readily-available rechargeable nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) cells, probably 5-6 1.2v D or C cells wired in series. This will buffer or "bank" power so a handset could be recharged at the end of the day after the sun has set. Also, I believe even C cells would provide a couple charges, and D cells even more.
Certainly the circuit needs voltage regulation to provide ~5.4 volts. I need to know whether my circuit design needs to accomplish the charge "tapering off," or whether handsets have that function built in.
Thanks for information and input,
Bob in Colorado
If you want to charge a device via USB port it is enough to provide stable 5V. Circuit that manages charge process is already built in. If you were to charge a Li-Ion/LiPo battery directly (connect your charger directly to battery terminals) then you would need some kind of IC to manage charge process (for example: MAX1555)
Qubas,
Thank you for the information!
Bob
Li-ions have built in over charge-deep discharge prevention circuit, and they do have a voltage regulator circuit too ( applies to all protected li-ions including mobile batteries, but absent in non protected cells) , u may give upto 1-3v more to protected cells than their native rated voltage but care should be taken not to fry up the circuit inside the cell package by giving more voltage. U may use 7805 ic ( use google to find the series with 1amp o/p @5v) to regulate the voltage to cell. If u are building a backup battery package, use protected 18650 li-ion with 1.8-2.5 amp at 3.7v ( use 2*18650 series combination + 7805 reg ic or 1*18650 + 1amp @5v booster circuit) , the advantages of li-ion is high discharge capacity, compact, etc..( google it to find more). See my portable charger thread here in hardware section( bit old thread).
Happy designing...
Sent from my HD2 using xda premium
---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1401627
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Greetings Showlyshah,
Wow! You have given me several good, new ideas. Thank you for the information. I will view the thread you mentioned.
Best!
Bob
showlyshah said:
If u are building a backup battery package, use protected 18650 li-ion with 1.8-2.5 amp at 3.7v ( use 2*18650 series combination + 7805 reg ic or 1*18650 + 1amp @5v booster circuit)
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Using a 7805 has lots of problems.
First of all it's only rated for 1 amp.
Second, the "drop-out" voltage can be as high as 7 volts.
With 7.4 nominal input that means there is not a lot of margin.
It also means that if it's putting out 1 amp, it's also wasting 2.4 watts in heat.
That's 67% efficiency, not that great.
In this day and age use a switching regulator.
There are lots of tiny circuit boards available.
I gave the easiest way. Less circuits, 7805 dont even need a pcb to build. There are a thousand other options. But i havent seen any thing as simple as 7805 yet. Its an old ic of course and hence have less efficiency. Lol we cant have 5star energy rating( common energy efficiency rating here) in 90's product!!!
Sent from my HD2 using xda premium
I just noticed that Samsung is treating our batteries in a rude manner: they limit the charging voltage at 4.3v which drastically reduces battery life. I have searched all over the internet and I could not find a way to limit the maximum charging voltage. Is there any way to limit the charging voltage?
I measured the voltage with an intelligent charger, at first I got an overvoltage error as I tried to discharge the battery. I really don't feel comfortable driving around with a bomb in my car as Samsung did have issues with exploding batteries. The ideal voltage must be around 4.1v, maximum 4.2v
So you measured the voltage while it was charging in the phone? Not sure how you hooked up an intelligent charger to the battery while it's in the phone charging by the phone.
they limit the charging voltage at 4.3v which drastically reduces battery life.
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How does it reduce it?
And as far as I know, the charging voltage is 5.3V for the standard charger.
I was measuring the battery outside the phone after 1 day when I got out the battery out of the phone, fully charged.
Someguyfromhell, the USB voltage does not play a role here, the charging electronics is in the phone matters, USB provides, as you say, a fixed voltage.
Inx64, is there perhaps an ingeneering menu concerning the charging process where you can modify charging parameters?
I think you can measure voltage with this code *#0228#
Knowing the voltage from the menu is easy, controlling the charging voltage aparently not so easy, though.
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
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Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
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this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
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Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
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Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
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Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
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Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
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Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
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So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
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1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
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yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.