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In comparing the iPad with the Xoom, no doubt the iPad's display looks nicer. I have Dell IPS and non-IPS monitors and the color gamut on the IPS looks nicer.
However, I don't think Motorola "cheaped" out on the display as I've been hearing in passing. I think what it came down to is this no parts manufacturer has developed a mobile IPS display at 1280x800 because if they did, you know Apple would've used it in their MacBook Pro's.
So, if you were VP of Moto's Product Development, would you have made the same decision?
UPDATE:
Here's a link to an image that you can use to test image quality across different device. Try to display at 100% as different scaling algorithms may degrade the image quality.
ips for sure. Love the xoom, but the display is not the best. Even my Viewsonic G tablet does a better job displaying photos when viewing straight on. Maybe someone will figure out a way to tweak the xoom display for better contrast and color.
For a device this small, I'll take the larger resolution, and quality wise, I'm perfectly happy with the Xoom display (particularly after turning off auto brightness).
Now if we're talking about a LCD for PC, I'll keep my IPS
nswenson said:
ips for sure. Love the xoom, but the display is not the best. Even my Viewsonic G tablet does a better job displaying photos when viewing straight on. Maybe someone will figure out a way to tweak the xoom display for better contrast and color.
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Click to collapse
The stock photo viewer does suck. If the image is scaled at all, it looks a bit garbled.
Go to the market and download QuickPic. It's a MUCH better photo gallery app, and even large images taken with my DSLR look good scaled down.
codeman05 said:
For a device this small, I'll take the larger resolution, and quality wise, I'm perfectly happy with the Xoom display (particularly after turning off auto brightness).
Now if we're talking about a LCD for PC, I'll keep my IPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have to agree. I'll take 1280x800 and slightly reduced image qualit over 1024x768
When I get my Xoom, I plan to do a cbr/cbz comparison against my R10 (1024x768 IPS screen).
IPS is still LCD. IPS is just one of the better types of LCD panel, and hence your thread title is weird.
Why are some people saying that the LCD on Xoom is non-IPS? Has it been confirmed already? I can't find the model number of the Xoom LCD panel. iFixit doesn't list it, maybe I can email them and ask. But from all the review pictures and videos I've seen so far, the view angel of the Xoom LCD does seem very wide, on par with typical IPS panel. Color reproduction-wise, it can vary a lot among IPS panels depending on model. Without doubt, the one on the iPad is exceptional. But then, with the volume that Apple is shipping, they probably won't have much problem getting some custom made specification.
EDIT: Ok, I just Googled. iSuppli has the part list
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/XOOMBOM-Totals-$359-92-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
The display model is AUOptronics B101EW04 V.0, and it doesn't mention the panel type (no, TFT is not a panel type). Googling this model number gives me nothing. iSuppli does mention that the IPS panel on the iPad is infact AFFS panel, a high quatlity and newer type of IPS panel (those who have modded their Thinkpad X200 are familiar with this type of panel).
Alright, answering my own question.
Did some Googling and it seems that AUO doesn't make any IPS panel. Cannot find B101EW04 on their website, but their website does list a B101EW05. Judging from the model number it may be similar to the B101EW04 that Xoom uses. Perhaps it's a newer model that replaces the B101EW04?
http://www.auo.com/?sn=149&lang=en-US&c=34&n=146
B101EW05 is a 10.1" 1280x800 VA panel. VA panels are high quality panels that are comparable to IPS. Dell WFP 2407, 2407-HC, and 2408 (and maybe more, I just know these models) all use VA panels and everyone knows that they look exceptional. The B101EW05 looks spectacular on spec sheet, and enters into production only in Q4 2010. Perhaps just a little bit too late to be employed on the Xoom?
Someone in another thread that is a professional photographers said the xoom is more accurate on color than his ipad, for what it's worth.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
roebeet said:
When I get my Xoom, I plan to do a cbr/cbz comparison against my R10 (1024x768 IPS screen).
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Click to collapse
Are you also keeping yours now??
Don't confuse a bright and colorful display with accuracy. Accurate means the way it looks in real life. Look out the window, it does not look like Wonderland or Oz.
A photographer needs an accurate representation on a device of his work so that the final product is not misrepresented.
tsekh501 said:
IPS is still LCD. IPS is just one of the better types of LCD panel, and hence your thread title is weird.
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Click to collapse
Well, yea, I think most XDA readers know that IPS is LCD, but I just wanted to keep the title short.
I just added a link to a test image for those who want to test the quality of their different displays.
I was doing a side by side comparison against a friends iPad and my Xoom when playing a movie. They both look really good, but the main difference is the iPad being 4:3 looks really awkward when playing widescreen movies. The good thing about a "fragmented" OS is apps had to detect the screen size to work correctly, and now we have all these widescreen tablets of whatever resolution people like, while iOS is locked into 4:3 forever basically, or risk huge backwards compatibility problems as I'm sure 95% of iPad apps have 1024x768 hard coded in them.
Phylar said:
I was doing a side by side comparison against a friends iPad and my Xoom when playing a movie. They both look really good, but the main difference is the iPad being 4:3 looks really awkward when playing widescreen movies. The good thing about a "fragmented" OS is apps had to detect the screen size to work correctly, and now we have all these widescreen tablets of whatever resolution people like, while iOS is locked into 4:3 forever basically, or risk huge backwards compatibility problems as I'm sure 95% of iPad apps have 1024x768 hard coded in them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resolution wouldn't be a problem for Apple. Since iOS devices are made only by Apple, Apple has complete control over what resolution their devices use. And given the volume that Apple ships (they sold 15 million of iPads in the first 9 month for god sake...), they probably can have a screen made to their specification (e.g. the super high pixel density screen of the iPhone 4).
It's the viewing angles that make IPS screens so much better.
Lay both an iPad and a Xoom flat side by side in portrait mode and look at them as you're laying down on a bed. You'll definitely notice a difference. The blues at the top of the Xoom screen of the tron-like Honeycomb wallpaper turn purple. The iPad colors largely look the same no matter what angle you're looking at it.
As a photographer, although i love android os but i still have to go with Ipad screen, the color look more accurate to me.
i went to Bestbuy and try out the xoom, the screen is pretty bad but better than my g-tablet.
I really hope that people can port honeycomb to ipad 2.
ianlti said:
As a photographer, although i love android os but i still have to go with Ipad screen, the color look more accurate to me.
i went to Bestbuy and try out the xoom, the screen is pretty bad but better than my g-tablet.
I really hope that people can port honeycomb to ipad 2.
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Click to collapse
I tested both as well at Best Buy. I wouldn't say that it's "really bad." It's not as good as IPS, but it's not bad by any means.
Before I got my Dell Ultrasharp U2410 monitors, I was using plain Dell LCD monitors. I now have a quad monitor setup, 2 normal Dells + 2 IPS Dells. The U2410's have the edge on color gamut, but other than that, quality is very close.
If Samsung was smart, they'd make a 1280x800 SAMOLED display and keep it to themselves or else charge a huge profit margin to their competitors.
Sometimes, I wonder how these product VP's get their jobs? It just seems like all their decisions are against common sense.
Neo3D said:
I tested both as well at Best Buy. I wouldn't say that it's "really bad." It's not as good as IPS, but it's not bad by any means.
Before I got my Dell Ultrasharp U2410 monitors, I was using plain Dell LCD monitors. I now have a quad monitor setup, 2 normal Dells + 2 IPS Dells. The U2410's have the edge on color gamut, but other than that, quality is very close.
If Samsung was smart, they'd make a 1280x800 SAMOLED display and keep it to themselves or else charge a huge profit margin to their competitors.
Sometimes, I wonder how these product VP's get their jobs? It just seems like all their decisions are against common sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately Super AMOLED isn't available this big yet. The Galaxy Tab 7" has a pretty nice screen, and early hands on preview of the Galaxy Tab 10.1" say that the screen on it is just as nice. It's not surprising though, since Samsung is probably using their own panels and their panels are always nice. If you look take a look here:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/product/note.html
Samsung makes 3 sizes of tablet screens, 7", 10.1", and 9.7", which coincides with the almost confirmed rumor that they will reveal another 9.7" Honeycomb tablet at CTIA. If you want a 10.1" Honeycomb tablet with nice screen, wait for the Samsung 10.1" or 9.7" Galaxy Tab. (But the Galaxy Tab 10.1" has no USB port and SD card slot .... yes, Samsung somehow think it's a good idea to use a proprietary 30-pin connector)
our IT nerd from work lent me his iPad for direct comparison and I have to admit that the Xoom does not even get close to the viewing angles of the iPad. Due to the 16:10 form factor the Xoom also appears smaller. Still, I'm having so much fun with my Xoom that if you don't torture yourself with putting the iPad right next to it it works well!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
tsekh501 said:
Unfortunately Super AMOLED isn't available this big yet. The Galaxy Tab 7" has a pretty nice screen, and early hands on preview of the Galaxy Tab 10.1" say that the screen on it is just as nice. It's not surprising though, since Samsung is probably using their own panels and their panels are always nice. If you look take a look here:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/product/note.html
Samsung makes 3 sizes of tablet screens, 7", 10.1", and 9.7", which coincides with the almost confirmed rumor that they will reveal another 9.7" Honeycomb tablet at CTIA. If you want a 10.1" Honeycomb tablet with nice screen, wait for the Samsung 10.1" or 9.7" Galaxy Tab. (But the Galaxy Tab 10.1" has no USB port and SD card slot .... yes, Samsung somehow think it's a good idea to use a proprietary 30-pin connector)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean 8.9 not 9.7.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
how does the galaxy tab's screen compare to the xoom's? or even the ipads ips screen
I am hearing it is the best screen on any tab available today, though the colors are oversaturated in Samsung fashion, but there is virtually no light bleed that is present on IPS screens, and viewing angles are exceptional.
XOOM does not hold a stick against it - I have a Transformer with an IPS screen, and it leaves XOOM screen in dust.
oh wow i didnt know the transformer had a ips screen... i wonder if im ever going to see that one at bestbuy
I tested out the Tab yesterday, the screen quality was bloody brilliant, clearly the BEST screen I've ever seen on a tablet, I'd choose the Super PLS over IPS anyday - loved the colors and viewing angles on it !!
any one has side by side comparison of the ipad2 ips screen and galaxy tab 10.1 pls screen?
Check out Anandtech's review of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 from today:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4445/samsung-galaxy-tab-101-review/6
There's details on the screen vs the Eee Pad Transformer vs the iPad 2 vs the Xoom vs the BlackBerry PlayBook.
Anyone have comments on the quality of the LE versus retail?
Supercurio got his 10.1 today and he's been developing for the Transformer the last couple weeks. He says the 10.1's screen is art while the IPS is on the Transformer is just a screen. A lot of tweets basically suggesting that he likes the 10.1 better, period.
https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio
how does the 10.1 retail compare to the 10.1v
and 10.1 i/o edition?
also how does it compare to the ipad2 ips screen. any user experiences
songmeesay said:
Supercurio got his 10.1 today and he's been developing for the Transformer the last couple weeks. He says the 10.1's screen is art while the IPS is on the Transformer is just a screen. A lot of tweets basically suggesting that he likes the 10.1 better, period.
https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio
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Appears he's very happy with the audio too. Nice.
@ OP: I currently have xoom & 10.1 and its not even close screen wise!
songmeesay said:
Supercurio got his 10.1 today and he's been developing for the Transformer the last couple weeks. He says the 10.1's screen is art while the IPS is on the Transformer is just a screen. A lot of tweets basically suggesting that he likes the 10.1 better, period.
https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio
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Click to collapse
Thats awesome. I'd still like to hear LE vs Retail comparisons
Coming from Nook Color and Blackberry Playbook I was quite underwhelmed by the screen. Perhaps my expectations were unrealistic but it didn't blow me away or anything and I'm missing the "sharpness" and text rendering quality from the above devices. I guess the size of the screen is here to blame and it might look better on the 8.9 version but 10.1 is not "amazing".
The screen on the PlayBook is better than the Galaxy Tab 10.1 on paper at least (my earlier post in this thread had specs for both), so perhaps not "amazing" when speaking relatively but for most people it should be.
The Galaxy Tab 10.1 display model at Best Buy looked great... Until I turned off auto-brightness and turned it up a bit: then it looked awesome!
After that I went to look at the Xooms on display and was vastly underwhelmed. It's a night and day difference. The Galaxy Tab's screen is much brighter and has more vivid colors and better contrast. It's like comparing the screen of a Nexus One to that of an HTC Magic (except for the resolution, which is the same on both tablets).
it's definately the best btw the transformer and xoom. it's gets brighter than my ipad and the dimmest setting is the lowest of them all - great for night time reading!
it is quite saturated, but it makes comics pop. the oversaturated colors are a help when watching movies in indirect or bright lights since the lights kill viewability and alter color perception.
I agree; it's definitely the best screen to date on a tablet this size. When it comes to movies, the details are incredible (specifically 720p mp4 rips. Haven't tried any other formats). I'm a video enthusiasts and am very picky about the screens, too. Supercurio says he'll be able to implement an app for the screen to take the color down a bit for those that prefer a more natural color reproduction. I actually like the colors.
Can't wait to see the PenTile screens.
Is there a difference between all of the Asus Eee Pads that isn't obviously clear? I see there's like the TF101, 102, 101A, 201, so on and so forth and man it's really confusing. Is there a difference between the Transformer Prime or is the original Transformer the same as the Prime? I would really like one of these pads but want to make sure I know what exactly I'm buying...
Generation 1 tabs -
Tf101: Mid-range tablet, lower price than the 201 prime with a dual core processor vs a quad core, super ips screen gorilla glass 2 vs super ips + screen gorilla glass 3.
Tf201: High-range tablet, higher price, higher specs.
Slider: Basically a tf101 with slide out keyboard instead of a dock
Generation 2 tabs -
Tf300T: Mid-range, quad core, ~same price as tf101, think of it as an upgraded tf101, only downgrades are the screen is now Scratch-resistant INSTEAD of gorilla glass (so slightly worse and darker) and loss of 1 usb port on the dock, otherwise all around better.
TF700: (Infinity) Upgraded prime with better specs, screen, higher resolution, higher price point. Fixes gps/wifi issues with prime.
Does this answer what you were looking for?
Yes sir, thank you very much!
As an avid reader, I don't like the new ipad's weight and bulk, but I quite like its screen, specifically its pixel density that makes the letters look very beautiful. The new ipad's display is perceptively worse than that of my iphone 4, now Nexus 7's display looks one step worse further on paper. How is it in reality? How clear is 1280x800?
Avid reader here as well, already read about 200+ pages on the N7 in the past 24 hours and i can say that the screen's PPI is awesome for reading but i couldn't tell you how it compares to the iPad 3
Nexcellent said:
Avid reader here as well, already read about 200+ pages on the N7 in the past 24 hours and i can say that the screen's PPI is awesome for reading but i couldn't tell you how it compares to the iPad 3
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Click to collapse
Its weight and everything sound so so so much better for reading than ipad 3! Can you make the screen dim enough to read in the dark?
kanzlerin said:
Its weight and everything sound so so so much better for reading than ipad 3! Can you make the screen dim enough to read in the dark?
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Click to collapse
Even with rootdim and night mode in the kindle app, it is a little bright but doable. I have light sensitive eyes though.
kanzlerin said:
As an avid reader, I don't like the new ipad's weight and bulk, but I quite like its screen, specifically its pixel density that makes the letters look very beautiful. The new ipad's display is perceptively worse than that of my iphone 4, now Nexus 7's display looks one step worse further on paper. How is it in reality? How clear is 1280x800?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The clarity is great for reading, i have considered selling my Nook e-reader due to it but my eyes get strained reading off LCD screens.
If you are in the US and have a Gamestop nearby, try calling them as they might have a demo unit, the one near me did. That way you can check it out.
Thanks guys for the info. I've already gotten rid of my Kindle Touch because I couldn't stand the sloooooowwwwwwness. Couldn't see a demo unit in Germany though and I'm headed to Asia where Nexus won't be arriving in waves either.
Compared to the iPad 3, it's not quite as sharp and the colours not as good but tbh it's not that far off in reality due to a smaller screen.
The average person would find it difficult and not really care as the Nexus is lighter, and a better shape and size for reading. Also the back cover feels great to hold.
gavinfabl said:
Compared to the iPad 3, it's not quite as sharp and the colours not as good but tbh it's not that far off in reality due to a smaller screen.
The average person would find it difficult and not really care as the Nexus is lighter, and a better shape and size for reading. Also the back cover feels great to hold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! I asked this question in the main board and Eclair~ linked some pictures. I shrink them down so that the Nexus 7 screen is a big as a 6 inch foto. And it looks great! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=28789312&postcount=34
You're right, 7 inch is great for reading. I owned a kindle touch which is almost the same dimension only 2cm shorter, it was much better to hold in my hands and carry around in my purse than my ipads. Only the Kindle was slow and pretty much useless in doing anything else and I'm not always in the mood for books. Nexus 7 is perfect in that regard, everything rolled into one.
The two are not exactly comparable. The text on the 3rd gen iPad is the most crisp, clear, and punchy you'll get from any device today; including desktop and mobile. The Nexus 7 is significantly more washed out with visible pixels at the edges of text. When it comes to display technology, the Nexus 7 and the iPad are not in the same category. If you think the iPhone 4 is worse in terms of clarity (not saturation and contrast) then the Nexus 7 probably isn't for you.
When it comes to form factor however, if you prefer reading from paperback novels, the Nexus 7 will be much more enjoyable. If you prefer textbook, magazine, and newspaper reading formats then the iPad will likely be a better tablet for you.
There's a large price gap between the two that should also be considered.
ijeff said:
The two are not exactly comparable. The text on the 3rd gen iPad is the most crisp, clear, and punchy you'll get from any device today; including desktop and mobile. The Nexus 7 is significantly more washed out with visible pixels at the edges of text. When it comes to display technology, the Nexus 7 and the iPad are not in the same category. If you think the iPhone 4 is worse in terms of clarity (not saturation and contrast) then the Nexus 7 probably isn't for you.
When it comes to form factor however, if you prefer reading from paperback novels, the Nexus 7 will be much more enjoyable. If you prefer textbook, magazine, and newspaper reading formats then the iPad will likely be a better tablet for you.
There's a large price gap between the two that should also be considered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone 4 and 4s have very crispy screens with 329.65 PPI, The New iPad's screen has 263.92 PPI. I can occasionally tell that it's not as crispy as my iphone but it doesn't really register. At 215.63 PPI, I'm hoping Nexus can fool my eyes, too. At least for a year, until the next gen devices with better display roll out. :fingers-crossed:
The Note 12.2 uses a pentile [RB][GW] subpixel layout vs the TabPro 8.4 which has full [RGB].
Pentile screens use just 2/3 of the subpixels compared to full RGB.
Accordingly subPixel counts:
Note 12.2 ... 2560x1600x2 gives about 8 million sub pixels
tabPro 8.4 ... 2560x1600x3 gives about 12 million
Disappointing for a device priced so high with a 'Pro' tag?
SonicTab said:
The Note 12.2 uses a pentile [RB][GW] subpixel layout vs the TabPro 8.4 which has full [RGB].
Pentile screens use just 2/3 of the subpixels compared to full RGB.
Accordingly subPixel counts:
Note 12.2 ... 2560x1600x2 gives about 8 million sub pixels
tabPro 8.4 ... 2560x1600x3 gives about 12 million
Disappointing for a device priced so high with a 'Pro' tag?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe that the actual experience of using the tablet and getting the best out of it matters more than the on paper calculations
I have a Nexus 10 and a Note Pro 12.2 and can't tell any difference in pixel density so quit complaining about paper specs. It's a great tabet!
rkirmeier said:
I have a Nexus 10 and a Note Pro 12.2 and can't tell any difference in pixel density so quit complaining about paper specs. It's a great tabet!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn that in to PPI and it doesn't look so bad. The gross PPI for the N12.2 is 247. The addition of the white sub-pixel (25% of the total count) reduces the RGB pixels by 8% each leaving them at 227 PPI each. The iPad Air is at 264 PPI and the net RGB for the N10.1-14 is 274 (gross is 299) resulting in the N12.2 having 14% fewer RGB pixels per inch than the iPad and 17% less than the N10.1-14. It's 24% less than the N10 which uses a RGB stripe display. Whether those PPI reductions are comparatively noticeable depends more on individual visual acuity and the distance the device is viewed from than anything else. Some reviewers commented on the display being less sharp when compared to the Tab|Pro 8.4/10.1 and N10.1-14.
Same here. No perceived difference in sharpness/quality with my Nexus 10.
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
BarryH_GEG said:
Turn that in to PPI and it doesn't look so bad. The gross PPI for the N12.2 is 247. The addition of the white sub-pixel (25% of the total count) reduces the RGB pixels by 8% each leaving them at 227 PPI each. The iPad Air is at 264 PPI and the net RGB for the N10.1-14 is 274 (gross is 299) resulting in the N12.2 having 14% fewer RGB pixels per inch than the iPad and 17% less than the N10.1-14. It's 24% less than the N10 which uses a RGB stripe display. Whether those PPI reductions are comparatively noticeable depends more on individual visual acuity and the distance the device is viewed from than anything else. Some reviewers commented on the display being less sharp when compared to the Tab|Pro 8.4/10.1 and N10.1-14.
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Click to collapse
All these calculations are a waste of time and effort. I can't tell the difference side by side so no one is going to be able to honestly perceive that one is better then another... These kind of arguments and numbers are only for haters or people who can't afford a device but want to convince themselves they really don't want it because of some technical specs that can't be perceived in real world usage/conditions.
Look it is what it is.
Samsung used a pentile screen in the 12.2 . Pentile screens have 2/3 of the sub pixels of a normal RGB display.
The display quality of the TabPro 8.4 is incredible, 1078 sub pixels per inch,
whereas the 12.2 pentile display clocks in at 494 sub pixels per inch.
As others have noted, the 12.2 Note screen is more than usable, but it's inferior to a full RGB display.
SonicTab said:
Look it is what it is.
Samsung used a pentile screen in the 12.2 . Pentile screens have 2/3 of the sub pixels of a normal RGB display.
The display quality of the TabPro 8.4 is incredible, 1078 sub pixels per inch,
whereas the 12.2 pentile display clocks in at 494 sub pixels per inch.
As others have noted, the 12.2 Note screen is more than usable, but it's inferior to a full RGB display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you are not getting one ?!
As I said actual experience matter than paper specs and calculations etc. I have seen no one disappointed about the screen not on here or in a YouTube video but you . everyone is charmed by the beauty of the screen and happy with it . those calculations are not a deal breaker for anyone around here and if you are not happy with what you would get with the note pro you could simply get the 8.4 tap pro its a personal reference .
Sent from my SGH-I777 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
SonicTab said:
Look it is what it is.
Samsung used a pentile screen in the 12.2 . Pentile screens have 2/3 of the sub pixels of a normal RGB display.
The display quality of the TabPro 8.4 is incredible, 1078 sub pixels per inch,
whereas the 12.2 pentile display clocks in at 494 sub pixels per inch.
As others have noted, the 12.2 Note screen is more than usable, but it's inferior to a full RGB display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but you are being stupid. Stop analyzing the specs and actually try out the devices. No way you can perceive any difference under normal operating conditions. I truly feel sorry for you...
It's an lower quality display. The difference can be seen, and stated and is unexpected in a premium product.
If your charmed by the product or unable to see the difference, all the better.
Maybe Samsung has judged its target audience correctly.
SonicTab said:
Look it is what it is.
Samsung used a pentile screen in the 12.2 . Pentile screens have 2/3 of the sub pixels of a normal RGB display.
The display quality of the TabPro 8.4 is incredible, 1078 sub pixels per inch,
whereas the 12.2 pentile display clocks in at 494 sub pixels per inch.
As others have noted, the 12.2 Note screen is more than usable, but it's inferior to a full RGB display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SonicTab said:
The Note 12.2 uses a pentile [RB][GW] subpixel layout vs the TabPro 8.4 which has full [RGB].
Pentile screens use just 2/3 of the subpixels compared to full RGB.
Accordingly subPixel counts:
Note 12.2 ... 2560x1600x2 gives about 8 million sub pixels
tabPro 8.4 ... 2560x1600x3 gives about 12 million
Disappointing for a device priced so high with a 'Pro' tag?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the way pentile and rgb stripe displays render information is totally different. Rgb use an entire pixel (rgb) to create an image. Rgbw displays render on the subpixel level. The pixels actually have no locked in grid they must conform to but rather work with all those around them to render the same resolution image as rgb with 2/3 of the subpixels. There is no discernable difference except that rgbw actually conforms to the process of the human eye better and thus can achieve better color parity with real life.
PenTile® technology is biomimetic, meaning it is designed to compliment the complex mechanics of the eye-brain system. As a simple example of eye mechanics consider how the eye utilizes the color blue. The eye has cone receptors that sense color and brightness, and discern patterns. These cones are sensitive to different wavelengths of color—primarily red, green, and blue. The blue cones detect mostly color (chroma) information, while the red and green cones do most of the work resolving images by discerning luminance, edges, and structural details of images, as well as contributing to color vision. The red and green cones are used independently, each cone seeing a "dot" of black and white—ignoring its color to produce high resolution luminance perception—and are used in opposition, comparing the amount of red versus green, to produce low resolution color perception.
If there was an obvious disadvantage I doubt one of the largest and most successful electronics companies to ever exist would not use pentile. Or have you all forgotten that the NOTE 3 pentile is hailed as the best screen on a phone period (with regards to new 2k screens coming this year) even beating out all lcd rgb competition?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
SonicTab said:
Maybe Samsung has judged its target audience correctly.
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Click to collapse
^This.
Measurement is objective, but enjoyment is subjective.
Duly.noted said:
Actually the way pentile and rgb stripe displays render information is totally different. Rgb use an entire pixel (rgb) to create an image. Rgbw displays render on the subpixel level. The pixels actually have no locked in grid they must conform to but rather work with all those around them to render the same resolution image as rgb with 2/3 of the subpixels. There is no discernable difference except that rgbw actually conforms to the process of the human eye better and thus can achieve better color parity with real life.
PenTile® technology is biomimetic, meaning it is designed to compliment the complex mechanics of the eye-brain system. As a simple example of eye mechanics consider how the eye utilizes the color blue. The eye has cone receptors that sense color and brightness, and discern patterns. These cones are sensitive to different wavelengths of color—primarily red, green, and blue. The blue cones detect mostly color (chroma) information, while the red and green cones do most of the work resolving images by discerning luminance, edges, and structural details of images, as well as contributing to color vision. The red and green cones are used independently, each cone seeing a "dot" of black and white—ignoring its color to produce high resolution luminance perception—and are used in opposition, comparing the amount of red versus green, to produce low resolution color perception.
If there was an obvious disadvantage I doubt one of the largest and most successful electronics companies to ever exist would not use pentile. Or have you all forgotten that the NOTE 3 pentile is hailed as the best screen on a phone period (with regards to new 2k screens coming this year) even beating out all lcd rgb competition?
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PREACH.
The only other image related difference, I believe, is that the tab can record HD video at a higher fps. The camera only weighs in at a craptastic 8 MP, and I don't use my tablet, of all things, to film video. The s-pen, on the other hand, is fantastic for graphic work.
rkirmeier said:
Sorry but you are being stupid. Stop analyzing the specs and actually try out the devices. No way you can perceive any difference under normal operating conditions. I truly feel sorry for you...
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How is this stupid? We are not talking about a $100 or a $200 device; this is the most expensive Android tablet where EVERYTHING should be premium. When the build quality is already meh, not having 2560x1600 at standard RGB stripe for a LCD is a kick to the teeth.
The comparison with the Note 3 is asinine, because this is not 1080p AMOLED on a 5.7" screen where the tradeoffs with Pentile are more than worth it. 2560x1600 RGB is only 227 ppi, Pentile reduces it to 2/3 to 150 ppi. The claim you make that people can't see the difference like Retina iPad is ridiculous.
My brother has the 12.2 which I have actually used it so don't use the "you didn't tried it out hurr hurr" excuse to shut people up. Straight edges are clearly blurrier than my iPad Air. But hey if you like Samsung to continue selling you inferior specs at high prices be their guest.
But at the end it's not the pixel density. If you get the same effect with new technique, you don't need so high density. But as you said you see the difference in straight edges so probably buyers should then first check the screen do they see the same or not.
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I have the note 3, note 10.1 2012 and the note pro 12.2, the note pro is much better than my note 3 and my note 10.1 2012 combined. If you want to complain about ppi, then you should complain about the first note 10.1. 1280 x 800 on a 10.1 inch screen vs 2560 x 1600 on a 12 inch screen. Considering the first note 10.1, that is a screen upgrade to me.
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Metallic Palladium said:
How is this stupid? We are not talking about a $100 or a $200 device; this is the most expensive Android tablet where EVERYTHING should be premium. When the build quality is already meh, not having 2560x1600 at standard RGB stripe for a LCD is a kick to the teeth.
The comparison with the Note 3 is asinine, because this is not 1080p AMOLED on a 5.7" screen where the tradeoffs with Pentile are more than worth it. 2560x1600 RGB is only 227 ppi, Pentile reduces it to 2/3 to 150 ppi. The claim you make that people can't see the difference like Retina iPad is ridiculous.
My brother has the 12.2 which I have actually used it so don't use the "you didn't tried it out hurr hurr" excuse to shut people up. Straight edges are clearly blurrier than my iPad Air. But hey if you like Samsung to continue selling you inferior specs at high prices be their guest.
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Good, I hope you don't buy a 12.2 for this reason. No one really cares and it's your loss... I firmly stick by my claims, I have better then 20/20 vision and at normal viewing distance (i.e. 18inches or so) it's impossible to tell the difference. You go ahead and stick face right up to the tablet screens and compare them side by side finding that under non normal usage it's technically possible to see a slight difference if that is what you need to do. 99.9% of people who want this tablet have no issue with the screen cause if you take away the specs and evaluate the screen under normal usage conditions it's as good as anything on the market. If you think your little online rant about the resolution is going to force Samsung to make a screen that meets your specs you need a reality check. I'm going to enjoy my Note 12.2 and in a year from now Samsung will likely release a newer upgrade model with a "better" screen (as that is what happens every year) that may meet your technical requirements. Until then you enjoy your little iPad Air and I'll me enjoying my Note 12.2!
How is this thread still going? Either you buy one, or you don't. I bought it, and I'm never looking back. It has all the functionality I need, plus things I've not yet gotten around to messing with. It's an awesome tablet. If subpixels are what you're in the market for, then you have done your homework and know this isn't what you need.
This is what I need. Very pleased.
Thank you, and goodnight.
Metallic Palladium said:
How is this stupid? We are not talking about a $100 or a $200 device; this is the most expensive Android tablet where EVERYTHING should be premium. When the build quality is already meh, not having 2560x1600 at standard RGB stripe for a LCD is a kick to the teeth.
The comparison with the Note 3 is asinine, because this is not 1080p AMOLED on a 5.7" screen where the tradeoffs with Pentile are more than worth it. 2560x1600 RGB is only 227 ppi, Pentile reduces it to 2/3 to 150 ppi. The claim you make that people can't see the difference like Retina iPad is ridiculous.
My brother has the 12.2 which I have actually used it so don't use the "you didn't tried it out hurr hurr" excuse to shut people up. Straight edges are clearly blurrier than my iPad Air. But hey if you like Samsung to continue selling you inferior specs at high prices be their guest.
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Samsung FIRMLY believes that pentile is a better screen technology than lcd they are the ones driving it's development. It is more akin to how the human eye actually works and it is easier on the eyes. The number of sub pixels is the same just one per every four is white, It is 30% more energy efficient and it requires fewer sub pixels to display at the same resolution, the human eye will see it the same as a higher resolution. To be technical though gentile displays have ZERO sub pixels. Each individual subpixel is rendered separately. They are not in pre defined groups and can be combined into any number of logical pixels. So technically the screen is using 12,288,000 individual pixels.*
conventional RGB stripe displays render (draw) images by assigning a color and luminance (brightness) to an entire RGB-triplet as a whole pixel, adjusting its three RGB subpixels to set a single addressable point. Images on a PenTile RGBW™ panel are subpixel rendered, meaning they are drawn at the subpixel level (the individual points of light), rather than to the whole pixels of an RGB stripe display. In fact "pixels" in the traditional sense have been eliminated in PenTile RGBW™ displays; individual subpixels are not restricted to use in one pixel group, but instead participate in multiple "logical" pixels in their surrounding vicinity.
Subpixel rendering dramatically increases addressability and enables the sophisticated image processing used in PenTile RGBW™ displays.
That is from nouyance the company that invented pentile and rgbw They also say
PenTile® technology is biomimetic, meaning it is designed to compliment the complex mechanics of the eye-brain system. As a simple example of eye mechanics consider how the eye utilizes the color blue. The eye has cone receptors that sense color and brightness, and discern patterns. These cones are sensitive to different wavelengths of color—primarily red, green, and blue. The blue cones detect mostly color (chroma) information, while the red and green cones do most of the work resolving images by discerning luminance, edges, and structural details of images, as well as contributing to color vision. The red and green cones are used independently, each cone seeing a "dot" of black and white—ignoring its color to produce high resolution luminance perception—and are used in opposition, comparing the amount of red versus green, to produce low resolution color perception.
The PenTile RGBW™ layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the red and green cones, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone types. Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision.
Other human-vision factors such as the logarithmic representation of luminance values, variable resolution between the center and edge of vision, and the separation and compression of brightness and color differences are also exploited in the design of PenTile RGBW™ displays.
The human eye perceives the resolution of the PenTile RGBW™ panel as the same as an equivalent RGB stripe panel, yet the PenTile®*panel uses one-third fewer subpixels. Consider the figure below to understand how this is accomplished.
At the top is the PenTile RGBW™ layout; at the bottom RGB stripe. The circle at the bottom center demonstrates the finest pattern of vertical black and white lines an RGB stripe display is capable of rendering. This requires three columns (R + G + B) be turned "on" and an equivalent width of three columns be turned "off" to write one cycle of a black and white line. From a suitable distance this collection of color subpixels appears to the eye as a white line.
The top center circle shows the equivalent pattern of vertical black and white lines written to the PenTile RGBW™ layout. From a distance the array of color subpixels in two columns will appear to the eye as a white line, identical to that generated by the RGB stripe layout, and the following two columns will write the corresponding black line. With only four columns being used to accomplish the same linear cycle that required six columns for legacy RGB stripe, two columns are saved. Hence, PenTile RGBW™ technology maintains the same resolution with one-third fewer columns, one-third fewer subpixels and one-third fewer transistors in the array. This results in wider columns and improved aperture ratio (ratio of transmissive area of a subpixel to the total area of that subpixel).
The circles on the right of the figure demonstrate the finest pattern of black and white lines which may be written horizontally to RGB stripe (bottom) and PenTile RGBW™ (top). Note that both layouts require the same number of rows for horizontal lines.
from this information we can see that a rgb display and a rgbw pentile are equal in displayed resolution and the pentile is more efficient. In black and white images and full color media Petite and rgb are 100% indistinguishable and only when displaying text against a fully saturated background (color text against a solid Colored background) or a sudden transition between two colors can a difference be seen and these are almost unnoticeable on high density displays like the Note 2014 or Note 12.2 pro. What you call drawbacks to pentile I call progress and efficiency. If I can't see a difference there isn't one. Only mine is bigger and more useful with better battery life. I owned the 2014 and work around and begrudgingly sell ipad airs on regular basis. I also have perfect vision in one eye and nobody I have EVER had come into my store has seen the 12.2's Screen as anything short of magnificent. Yes I suppose if you get close enough to your screen that you can barely focus on it that You could see a difference but ya Know I have a life and at normal viewing distances it is flawless. I mean I guess I better not buy a laptop anytime Soon since their dpi's are lower than an ipads right? Or if I want something really worth owning I need that 20" 4K tablet. And my TV is only 1080p? Its 50" THAT'S ONLY 44 DPI OMG I BETTER TRASH IT!!! Forget viewing distances I can't believe I enjoy this crap. I need at least an 8K tv to get a good dpi now I just need to wait about 6 years before I can own a tv again. And a 100" tv? Give me 16k and we can talk.
ExtremeRyno said:
How is this thread still going? Either you buy one, or you don't. I bought it, and I'm never looking back. It has all the functionality I need, plus things I've not yet gotten around to messing with. It's an awesome tablet. If subpixels are what you're in the market for, then you have done your homework and know this isn't what you need.
This is what I need. Very pleased.
Thank you, and goodnight.
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you said what i wanted to say exactly last night but i decided not too since things are getting awkward and pointless since he clearly is decided not to buy it but also the thread seems to be to make people stop buying the device based on some quality calculations