Related
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
RELAX. I've seen so many 'i've had it, i want to swim in Froyo goodness' that i want to puke.
Let me start by saying that i've been in this community for a Looong time and even ran my own kitchen website at one time. I have had over a dozen smartphones and love upgrades.
With that all out there, I can honestly say that my fascinate is perhaps the only phone i've owned (I have an intercept too) that i don't tweak much. I currently run DJ05 and with the blackish storm theme along with some hacks to allow me to save off to my SD card and GPS fixes.
I install a new ROM (crap kernal, slapkernal, rampage) and themes on the intercept. I did the same for winmo 5 and 6. But the Fascinate, it rocks! Have others here had the pleasure of playing with the famed Galaxy Epic? Our 3G is nearly as fast as their 4G and they $10 a month for that battery draining beast. Verizon is Waaay better than Sprint, ATT and Tmobile put together. Reception is the bomb. The EPic/Vibrant/Captivate soft buttons suck. You need to press them 4 or 5 times to get it to take.
Look, I all for upgrading, but Froyo doesn't buy me any sort of happiness at this point. I really don't give a squat whether it comes out or not. I don't even pine for Gingerbread. For what? We don't have a video camera on the front, so the best features are moot for us.
The reality is that Froyo and Gingerbread are just performance tweaks. I have it on my Intercept, woohooo (sarcasm). It will make a ****ty phone into a reasonable phone, but it won't make a great phone any better. Do you have slowdowns on the Fascinate? I'm running Asphalt 5 and Spiderman from the Galaxy Tab on the FAscinate without nearly a hint of lag. Oh of course, we have the same hardware, the best hardware currently out on the market. Until the ATrix/optimus comes to the states.
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
Here's an analogy, if you're driving a 250mph Mercedes AMG, do you care if Mercedes says it's coming out with a new one with an extra 10hp?
orateam said:
I love this site, but lately it's gotten full of these frustrated posts about a product little know nothing about.
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I completely agree. If I may share and I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but you do realize that you have just contributed to exactly that.
Again I mean no harm but in short just don't reply to them. Just my thoughts.
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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BTW I accidentally thanked you.
Seriously though, can you imagine trying to follow the latest development going on while several new guys who keep spamming with "WHEREZ THE FROYOZ YO." It's not easy. It's frustrating. I know I come across as arrogant and elitist, but this comes from dealing with people asking the same question over and over and over again. It's really not that the members here are trying to be harsh.
Having tried to help several users with their issues when new ROMs/development comes out, it's not easy to have to deal with everyone's issues while having to sort through the FROYO threads.
Also if you read the sticky, the moderator posted... STOP POSTING WHERE IS THE FROYO THREADS...
If you can't even read that... I'm not saying that they deserve a flaming, but it's going to happen. This forum has seen countless froyo threads. Search froyo in the Samsung Fascinate section of this forum and you'll see just how many...
Bwangster12 said:
If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Because this site belongs to the "super-intelligent" ones. And keeping a development site free and clear of non-development type threads will keep the "super-intelligent" happy. But gone are the days when users would join and lurk and self-educate themselves and would be aware of the fact that this is a development site for developers and not a place to parrot the latest engaget article about 2.2 on a completely different device.
I myself first came to xda and lurked for 4 months and then I joined in October of 2008 and I kept lurking and reading and reading and google searching and more reading. The first post I ever made was in April of 2009 and it was answering a question someone had. And that's because I identified the fact that this a development site for developers to create and share their hard work. This is not an end-user hacking site. And this is NOT an OH NO I GOT THIS PHONE YESTERDAY AND I DID A BUNCH A CRAP TO MY $500 DEVICE WITHOUT PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT I WAS EXACTLY DOING AND NOW IT'S STUCK ON THE SAMSUNG LOGO, HELP ME site.
And that is why the "super-intelligent" might be a little annoyed that their little development site has been overrun by people that show little to no respect and actually think that their opinions and parroted news stories actually matter. Or just blatantly create a help me thread without even spending 5 minutes of searching with google to actually mmmm I don't know, but help themselves.
Mom always told me "you made that mess. So now you are gonna clean up that mess"
good day.
+1 chopper and racer...
longtime Lurker and reader myself and it makes me cringe when I see someone with a ton of posts and says "how do I fix (some random problem) without ADB cuz I don't know how to use it"
The actual name of this site is "XDA Developers" I know how to look up engadget on the web when I want to know the latest rumors or news. =)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night.
That said, MY reason for lurking about on all things Froyo/Gingerbread for my phone is that I'm very interested in AOSP-based ROMs for it, and 2.2/2.3 are the OS revisions on which the devs are actively pursuing this accomplishment. While I am a software developer by trade (and I'd like to think a damn good one), I have NOTHING I can contribute to these efforts. I hate Java, I don't know enough about hacking hardware to make functional drivers without proper documentation, hell, I've never even *installed* Eclipse. Basically I am as useless as anyone else off the street would be out here. The difference seems to be that I KNOW THAT. I can't do these things, I don't want to take the time to learn how to do these things, and as a result I have no right to ***** and moan that these things haven't been done (yet). Instead, I sit in awe as others do these things I cannot and wait patiently for the day when I can benefit from someone else's hard work for a change ... and I'm happy to do so. I actually enjoy watching other, most likely younger, developers go through the process of creating something really cool armed with nothing but their own wit and persistence. The end result of their efforts will be something I not only desire for my own use, but will be something I could use to jump-start my own entry into this world should I change my mind and want to actively pursue such a thing.
My phone works great already, thanks to the people here. It runs Android 2.1. It does every single thing I've wanted it to do thus far, with these people's help. Yes, it has some annoyances that in my case would be resolved by having access to a truly stock AOSP-based system, and of course Froyo/Gingerbread is what I'd prefer over Eclair, but I can wait. I will wait. I will continue to donate an admittedly trivial amount of my hard earned money to the developers actively pursuing the end result I'm looking for that I'm not willing to work towards on my own.
I went from Troll to full-on Preacher here ... I can live with that I just hope that the devs here can see that there are people out there that both appreciate and admire them for what they do and hope they can turn a blind eye to the entitled jerks that continue to want something for nothing every day.
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
djp952 said:
I agree wholeheartedly, I lurk this forum and occasionally lurk IRC mainly because I'm interested. I have nothing useful to add 99.5% of the time and therefore don't try. Posting this reply is, ironically enough, useless in and of itself and I shall punish myself later for switching from lurker to troll this night...
End: post-turned-uncalled-for-rant.
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Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
orateam said:
Trust me, i hated opening this thread for that same reason. But this is not a "Trash Samsung, I need Froyo" thread. It's the opposite. It's a "I love Samsung for building a badass phone and don't need Froyo" thread.
Here's a response i read from the tmobile forum about their newly coveted Froyo.
" if you want the new froyo, don't bother
i just downloaded it, and found out i wasted an hour on it.
firstly, its laggy... more than eclair.
secondly, it has some things that verify update.zip so you have to use methods that you usally wouldn't use, and flashing another rom is hard because CWM doesn't work."
-GPS got worse for me
-I get the boot up sound even with System Volume all the way down. I don't get any sound for shut down though. Also get a vibrate after 'Goodbye' screen goes away (I don't know if that is a pro or con).
-I can't do a quick reboot anymore.
-The colors seem a little duller to me.
-Avatar doesn't play.
-Stock keyboard doesn't work
-Apps in Market are not stored
Pay attention, it's likely we are getting those same issues, just adpated to our flash camera.
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Why post something like that when it's clear that this guy had a fluke update experience? And to say we will have the same issues is sort of ridiculous. Sorry. I never had one problem updating to 2.2 on my og droid as well as my incredible. Obviously there will be a very small portion of people that have a problem with it as this guy did.
I understand the point of this thread is to stop all of the "Where is froyo?" threads, but to start saying we don't want or need 2.2 is sort of silly. Am I happy with 2.1 and how it runs on this phone? You bet. Do I think 2.2 will only improve this phone and take advantage of its potential even more? For sure. It'll come when it comes, but let's not downtalk it in the meantime.
e: Also, to the OP, why don't the little performance tweaks matter? What about the fact that 2.2 should help improve battery life which, in my opinion, this phone definitely needs? And the 250mph and 10hp analogy is really far off from what this is. It's more like a mercedes getting an engine tuneup as well as a variety of other small upgrades to enhance the overall experience of the car. Even if it's not revolutionary as some people believe (and no, I know it's not as I've gone through the update to 2.2 on a couple devices now), why not be excited if it enhances the experience overall?
Like I said before, I agree people should chill with all of the posts/topics about froyo along with all of their nagging. However, there's no reason to talk down about 2.2, either.
still lurking
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
mexiken said:
I blame the blogs, they made XDA celebrity status to the otherwise noob forum patrons....
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I blame engadget.
Keep this forum clean. Go dump all this crap at droidforums.net instead!
Bwangster12 said:
I wanna take a second and defend all those individuals who keep asking questions about Froyo and updates (me having been one of them).
While I think some of the questions are good and intelligent, a lot have been repetitive and can be answered by searching. If that is the case, why can't the "super-intelligent" forum members just ignore them and don't answer negatively? The threads take on a life of their own when member after member comes in to post links to other places and tell the poster that they are annoying and stupid.
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Thanks for people like you. I posted something in development about froyo. To me out was a legit development question. Since I did not word it correctly I been flamed for days even after I apologized. I mean its almost like being bait in a fish tank. What kind of taste in the mouth does this give someone new like me. The people that flamed do not know what my potential might be for contributions to this site. I know the moderators are mad that people are sometimes posting in the wrong forum, but that is always going to happen. Not one "real" developer flamed me nor did any moderator. The people that think they are comedians are the real problem in forums like this, not the people with real questions our concerns. Sorry for venting, but some people need to grow up
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
OP it's hilarious you created another FROYO thread to protest the creation of FROYO threads.
Way to go with killing off these threads!
dricacho said:
Here's a tissue neo4uo...you're welcome!
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Thanks
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Sorry for this question, but for some reason i cant post replies on X10 development sub-forum.
If any moderator can help me I will be thanked
You are a new member. You have to have at least 10 posts before posting in the development forum.
svetius said:
Important XDA Announcement Regarding New Users
Dear XDA Users,
Sorry for the long letter. Please read the whole thing if you're interested in some important upcoming changes to the site.
XDA is growing. There's really no way to avoid this. Smartphones are becoming ubiquitous. Android is soaring and Windows Phone is holding its own. By all measures, we have actually grown less than some of the other Smartphone-related sites out there. We're bigger just because we had a multi-year head start.
We are writing this because, like a lot of people, we constantly worry about the quality of posts on XDA. Some people suggest to us that quality has been deteriorating (or rather, the number of junk posts have been increasing), and honestly, maybe those people have a point. We want to make our developers feel at home. We want to make sure that good members of the community--those who offer to help and even those who respectfully ask for help--enjoy their time here. There is a cost of growth, and that cost is the crappy, rude posts that too often fill the forums.
No matter what we do, some people are going to complain, despite the best efforts of our fantastic moderator team. Some people want us to support all devices (actually, just the device they happen to have purchased yesterday); others want us to focus. Some people think the moderators have too much power; then they complain that certain forums are a mess. XDA has zero full-time employees. It's a massive challenge running this site, and we do the best we can.
Our stance is that we have a responsibility not to act as dictators. This is not our community... it is yours. We've debated shutting the site to new registrations. But really, what gives us the right to turn away the future generation of developers? We've debated adding fewer devices. But why should someone be turned from XDA just because they bought a Motorola phone instead of an HTC phone?
We've struggled for a long time thinking about how to solve the quality issues here. One way would be to constantly beg users to be nice to one another, always search before posting, etc, etc. We can try this, but realistically, this is the Internet; people act how they want to act.
So what's the plan? To make incremental changes that will hopefully impact XDA for the better. Our first change is this: only users with 10 posts (or more) will be allowed to post to any development-related forum. Users with 9 or fewer will be able to read, but not post. This change will happen within the next week. We hope it will dramatically cut down on the crap. It takes some small bit of effort to get to 10 posts on XDA. Hopefully those who make it to 10 are among the "better" users here. This will ONLY impact the development-related forums. All other forums will be open to everyone.
The good news: we might be a huge site, but we're a small team. If this change hurts XDA, we'll figure it out pretty quickly and revert back. If it helps, we'll work on other changes. My guess is that these small tweaks will make a big difference.
Thanks to everyone for reading. Happy 2011. And please, please, please be nice to one another =D
Thanks,
Admins and Mods
P.S. Want to discuss this?
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Yeah you cant reply because of that rule and remember unless your a dewveloper you shouldnt be starting a new thread there anyway
And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
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The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
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, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
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Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
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Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
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In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.
stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
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I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
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This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
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Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
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No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
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The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
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I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
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I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
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Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
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Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections
stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
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That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.
stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?
well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us
Yes, another thank you thread. This is the one topic that justifies more than one thread. I recently pm'd a developer a lengthy compliment and received an interesting response.
As I read through the development forum I see too many posts asking for eta or complaints of bugs and *****ing about this and that. There is simply not enough thanking these guys for what they do FOR FREE!!!! we take for granted how much time and effort they put into their work and simply want want want and expect them to deliver like it's their dang job or something.
Instead of continuing to ramble, developers thank you for your time, free products, free labor, free mods, and I wish I had the power to banish those who ***** at you or put demands on you.
Guys, respect what our developers do and next time you think about asking about an eta or think about complaining, just say thanks.
From the big ole Note
Could not agree more. Thanks guys! (that includes gals in my book).
As a developer myself, although not in this arena, I know how much work it is, even though we would probably do it anyway just because we're wired that way!
I know the developer I spoke with was very appreciative of the message and stated that he wished there was more appreciation around. I just can't believe the audacity some people have to fuss at a developer or complain to them over trivial things. Obviously they should offer support but that is not what I am referring to.
And your reply reminded me that I did leave out the ladies! Thank you too lady devs! You're all the more sexy
From the big ole Note
There are always some aholes around. XDA is pretty big so by the simple probability there are bound to be few jerks around. You can ignore those people most of the times.
What I dont like that sometimes other members make too big a deal out of simple complaint in the developer section. Lot of people just flame someone because he asked something that has been asked 20 pages ago in thread or complained about something. Those are equally bad.
And then there are few developers themselves who are sometimes very rude to people who are just trying to help by pointing out some things or passing some suggestions to the developers. I wont take names but one developer simply told me that I dont need to give him any advice and I should stop using his work if I dont like the way he does it when I simply suggested something regarding the way he was managing files, that too via PM.
Its all part of the community though.
I agree respect definitely goes both ways. I also never have and never will agree with anyone flaming someone for asking a noob question even if it's been asked a million times. We were all noobs once and Lord knows search is a pain sometimes. And what does flaming a new kid accomplish anyway? Nothing.
Yes I've seen developers have bad attitudes also so you are right it does go both ways. I just hope that this place can begin to become more family and community like and less flame friendly although it's hard as it grows and the members get younger with no manners or respect.
I came from and still occasionally visit the evo 3d forum and it is way worse than this one as far as childish flaming and trolling.
From the big ole Note
Couldn´t agree more, thanks for the thread!
XDA Developers is so much fun! It so much became a hobby of mine, to read through the threads, to try out this and that, to flash roms on new devices (tablets, smartphones).
It was such a great experience to see my old XDA compact (HTC magician) getting reborn again every quartal after cotulla published a new rom for it.
Nearly 383984 devices later (feels like that^^) I´m on my second Note now. And it´s still so much fun to be here and to enjoy the work others are doing for free!
To all developers out there: Thank you so much for giving me that kind of entertainment AND professional support in the same time! Thank you for being allowed to be a part of this incredible community (and with community i refer to the hundreds of devs here, not the millions of users like me ). Thanks for your efforts and time!
If I was a millionaire I would definitely be donating to all of you whether I used your products or not.
And as a side note I wish there was more sharing and helping among some people. Some are too proud, I've seen some in other forums set others up and other dirty stuff which is ridiculous. Pride comes before the fall
From the big ole Note
Without the developers hard work, we all be stuck on using un-rootable slow often horrible looking stock UI from the manufactures with inconsistent update. I’d be better off using an iphone or a Nexus if that is the case.
Been able to run root apps and flash different ROM is what keeps me buying Android devices instead of an iphone.
Also it is great fun leaning how to root devices and flash ROMs.
So BIG thanks to all the developers on this forum for their valuable time and hard work.