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I struggled long and hard with the decision to purchase the EVO. Its competitor for my patronage was the Nexus One on T-Mobile. At last, I made my decision based upon the following criteria: 1) better hardware, 2) better network, and 3) better price. Seems a no brainer, right?
Now that what's done is done, I'm left with a sense of remorse. Over what? Openness. Fortunately, I haven't bricked my Evo yet, but there is a very real possibility that I will at some point. With no open boot loader and a carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
What was Google really trying to do? By cutting out the carrier from distribution, the carriers don't have an opportunity to bake the system with their garbageware and close the door behind them. By failing to support Google's effort, each of us makes it less likely in some small amount that Google will do this again. We sold them out for a front-facing camera and a bit more screen (with light leak).
Then there we will be on the forums complaining about those evil, freedom-hating carriers. But then, perhaps we chose this and deserve our fates.
If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App
Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk Pro.
TheBiles said:
Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.
aLdaRiS said:
If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App
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I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.
nihilion_Zero said:
I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.
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Why don't you just return the phone if this bugs you so much?
Shidell said:
You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.
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I'm fairly confident that we will get NAND access fairly soon. There is no such thing as an "unhackable" device. Even now, though, it is NOT that difficult to access recovery and easily flash custom ROMs.
Just my two cents, I have only had one android phone and that was the mytouch from t-mobile. I now have the HTC - HD2 and really like it. When it comes to flashing roms, especially for someone new to winmo like me, it can be a bit scary. The developers have a HSPL flash that takes away almost all the risks as long as you use common sense and read things carefully. With that said I did see where a Chef of the HD2 bricked his phone just a few days ago (I have no idea what he was attempting to do when he bricked it but it did make me realize the danger)
Thanks
Derbyman32
Yes, if the remorse is really that bad, take it back. Sprint will refund ALL of your money. Then get the Nexus One for T-Mobile for $179. No-brainer...and the N1 is still an awesome Android phone!
I've seen enough issues on this forum to know that some people have no business flashing a camera, let alone a $500 phone. These are the same people that will install a GSM radio on their CDMA phone, come here and beg for a fix only to be told "sorry, read the instructions next time." They then head to Sprint, shrug, and say "I don't know, it worked fine yesterday" in the hopes of getting the phone replaced under warranty.
I agree with the premise that they are our phones and we should be able to flash whatever we want on them; however, if *I* break my phone, I do not expect Sprint to fix it. Unfortunately, common ethical behavior such as this escapes enough that Sprint made a business decision to make it hard enough so only those competent enough to follow complex procedures succeed in taking ownership of their phones. I get that. I also knew this before buying the phone.
If it's the principle of the matter for you, you can always go back to the N1, but I'd wonder why you're here in the first place.
Me? I have enough faith in this community to undo the locks, and I'll patiently enjoy the marvel of technology the EVO is while shackled until the benefits of rooting outweigh my perceived risks in performing the procedure.
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.
jmxp69 said:
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.
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I second that emotion! And it can even make the occasional phone call, too!
nihilion_Zero said:
carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
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I don't think a LESS true statement could be said.
Sprint doesn't give two flying flips what you do with your device. They have never made a move to precent root access, and MANY of the same reps who sell these devices root when it becomes available. The phone comes locked because of security and licensing agreements.
An example for the Evo is QIK. QIK is not made by Sprint, HTC, or Google. It is its own entity who paid HTC and Sprint a great deal of money to bake this app into the firmware. It would be a violation of that agreement to allow you to remove this app by default, therefore Root access is removed.
Android, when rooted, has so many holes in the security that information on the phone (like your contact list!) would in no way be considered safe. Sprint has to make some guarantee for that information, so those holes are filled and Root accessis denied.
However, should you be one of those FEW people competent enough to handle this kind of power, and you understand that Sprint, HTC, and Google will honor to warranty for the device should you break it then go for it. None of these companies will make even a token effort to stop you.
You are, for all intents and purposes, ignored. Software updates will be made as though Root did not exist. Known issues and fixes will be sent to employees and techs as though you did not exist. Features will be advertised as stock that you might no longer have, because you no longer exist.
It's not that the "carrier is bent on closing the system" it's that they are bound be several contracts to not help you.
All weekend I've been seeing/hearing the Blackberry Torch commercials, posters and radio drops. It made me wonder, where the hell are the G2 commercials and stuff?
I don't really hear or see anyone talking about this phone AT ALL. It's only when I go to specific Android or G2 forums that people like us are talking about it.
Have you seen anything about the G2?
At least it's up on tmo's home page for pre-order info
T-Mobile is knownto have a SH*TTY marketing team.
They real need kahonas to come out say this device beats everything out there...
someone has mentioned before that t-moible's big boys have limited budget for the marketing dept. I personally notice this too. I don't see as many T-mobile commercials as a few years ago
I think a majority of the people interested in the G2 don't need need to be marketed towards anyway. The marketing would probably help with phone sales, but I'm not sure it'd be enough to make it worthwhile.
G1/G2 users seem to mostly be the techy crowd that has been following G2 news for a while anyway.
Jorsher said:
I think a majority of the people interested in the G2 don't need need to be marketed towards anyway. The marketing would probably help with phone sales, but I'm not sure it'd be enough to make it worthwhile.
G1/G2 users seem to mostly be the techy crowd that has been following G2 news for a while anyway.
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One could argue that by saying Droid was meant for techy crowd too, but its not like that. The only reason Android became mainstream was because of the heave droid ad/market campaign that verizon did. No one knew what android was until verizon ads showed up showing how droid could muti-task and the whole App business.
If t-mobile could produce Ads half as good as Verizon produced for the droid, I dont see why the Non-techy crowd would jump on.
As of now the G2 is in the eyes of Techy, Sidekick, messaging users....
I hope it becomes mainstream like droid....
I'm not saying they shouldn't market it; I just don't see the big reason for it.
If people already have service with T-Mobile, they'll see it when they decide to upgrade their phone.
If people don't have service with T-Mobile, they'll typically find out when carrier is best for their area then pick a phone.
It's a nice phone, but I don't see it as something that would be a big draw for new customers. IMO phone marketing is pretty useless. People that care will find out the information on their own or when they upgrade. People that don't care about the features won't be buying it anyway. Marketing wouldn't really let out a big secret, people will see the phone when they shop/upgrade anyway.
Jorsher said:
I'm not saying they shouldn't market it; I just don't see the big reason for it.
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$$$$$$
(it's this little thing that all profit companies set as a goal)
Remember the phone has not launched yet, the Blackberry Torch commercials did not start until the device launched. Hopefully it will be the same with the G2.
JCopernicus said:
$$$$$$
(it's this little thing that all profit companies set as a goal)
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Which is exactly why I said it may not be worth the money in my original comment...
Marketing costs millions. They won't even sell millions of these phones, and profit margins on the hardware itself is next to nil. It's not exactly an 'epic' phone that will bring a ton of new subscribers like some of the others.
So, you answered your own question. It wouldn't be profitable to market this phone. It's not going to be a big draw for new users and the hardware isn't profitable on it's own, so why would they waste the money?
Since they're quite obviously in the business to make money, and they surely pay people a lot of money to make their marketing decisions, I am sure they ultimately decided that it in fact wasn't worth the money. Either that, or they just didn't want to make money (which sounds odd for a company that's out to make profit).
Jorsher said:
Which is exactly why I said it may not be worth the money in my original comment...
Marketing costs millions. They won't even sell millions of these phones, and profit margins on the hardware itself is next to nil. It's not exactly an 'epic' phone that will bring a ton of new subscribers like some of the others.
So, you answered your own question. It wouldn't be profitable to market this phone. It's not going to be a big draw for new users and the hardware isn't profitable on it's own, so why would they waste the money?
Since they're quite obviously in the business to make money, and they surely pay people a lot of money to make their marketing decisions, I am sure they ultimately decided that it in fact wasn't worth the money. Either that, or they just didn't want to make money (which sounds odd for a company that's out to make profit).
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Good think verizon never stepped up to plate with their droid line, who wants an android phone anyways right?
And a phone from apple? lol stick to your computers please.
Oh yeah, there's no way people would pay a dollar for a bottle of water either.
[icp]marketing, how does it work?[/icp]
JCopernicus said:
Good think verizon never stepped up to plate with their droid line, who wants an android phone anyways right?
And a phone from apple? lol stick to your computers please.
Oh yeah, there's no way people would pay a dollar for a bottle of water either.
[icp]marketing, how does it work?[/icp]
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Click to collapse
I wish I lived in your fantasy world where marketing is always profitable. I have a lot of crap I should spend millions to advertise, because it can't possibly fail.
You should send T-Mobile your resume because you seem to have the expertise that they are lacking. Their marketing department, full of people with marketing degrees that have probably been in the business longer than you've been alive, have no idea what they're doing. You, however, understand that anything with a commercial will be a huge success.
Stupid T-Mobile.
BTW, the G1 was marketed by T-Mobile. Why would T-Mobile spend the money to market a phone that isn't available to new customers? New customers are where the money is, so it'd be pretty retarded to advertise a phone that these new sources of money can't even buy yet. Heck, what do I know.
Why don't we wait until the official launch. It's too early to tell what t-mobile will do.
and you two stop bickering. lol
Jorsher said:
I wish I lived in your fantasy world where marketing is always profitable. I have a lot of crap I should spend millions to advertise, because it can't possibly fail.
You should send T-Mobile your resume because you seem to have the expertise that they are lacking. Their marketing department, full of people with marketing degrees that have probably been in the business longer than you've been alive, have no idea what they're doing. You, however, understand that anything with a commercial will be a huge success.
Stupid T-Mobile.
BTW, the G1 was marketed by T-Mobile. Why would T-Mobile spend the money to market a phone that isn't available to new customers? New customers are where the money is, so it'd be pretty retarded to advertise a phone that these new sources of money can't even buy yet. Heck, what do I know.
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Click to collapse
T-Mobile's marketing team is known for being rather lackluster.
I'm pretty sure my current clients are satisfied with my expertise in advertising their companies and products. Then again I could be wrong and I'm just scribbling in my notebook during home room, remind me how old I am again?
funkadesi said:
Why don't we wait until the official launch. It's too early to tell what t-mobile will do.
and you two stop bickering. lol
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Click to collapse
Well, yeah. If anything, they'll wait on the marketing until profitable people can actually buy it.
Right now only people that are already with T-Mobile can buy it (and wait to get it). They'd be pissing in the wind to advertise it now.
I have no marketing experience (because im an engineer) but If we were offered a gig to market the G2, I believe we can come up with some great ideas.
Maybe someone should hit up Tmo on twitter and let them know that we are willing to do this, lol
lol i second the stop bickering request.
you guys have to realize that they dont have the money to advertise/build hype for a phone that isnt on the market yet. Just you wait, they will start advertising once it is released.
funkadesi said:
I have no marketing experience (because im an engineer) but If we were offered a gig to market the G2, I believe we can come up with some great ideas.
Maybe someone should hit up Tmo on twitter and let them know that we are willing to do this, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first step, find a way to fit your resume into 160 char
theglock said:
lol i second the stop bickering request.
you guys have to realize that they dont have the money to advertise/build hype for a phone that isnt on the market yet. Just you wait, they will start advertising once it is released.
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You'll see like two commercials run for a week or two, tops, for the G2.
That's just how tmobile rolls.
All I know is that T-Mobile needs to get on the ball. And whoever the hell said marketing isn't a big deal, hmmm... 30 million bucks for a 30 second spot during the super bowl? Nah, not a big deal at all.
There's no such thing that G1/G2 is made for the "techy" crowd. It's ALWAYS about money. They want EVERYONE to buy the phone, not the 5,000 devs out there. lol
But anyways, I want to see some commercials or something about this. Of course it's going to on T-Mobile's website....
Why have things been so quiet on the dev front lately?
There was an initial flurry of activity, and most of the big ticket items were taken care of like rooting, sideloading, enabling tethering, webtop hacks, HDMI mirroring, etc. Thanks to DG and the other devs for that!
However, afaik we've only got 2 ROMs so far. I was hoping to join in the dev community when I get the time, but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore.
Other moto devices with locked bootloaders do have significantly more activity. I'm tempted to jump ship to the Verizon Thunderbolt now... pity because I really like the Atrix despite it's locked bootloader.
(I don't mean to disparage the work done so far... I realize that one of the reasons activity has slowed down is because the big ticket items have been taken care of
Like I've stated in another post in a different thread. Without an unlocked bootloader, you're going to be hearing crickets in these forums soon, as peoples 30 day trial periods are soon coming up. Sure not everyone is returning it but no dev support means a dead device for those of us that want custom roms. There is nothing more to say. If for some off chance the bootloader becomes unlocked you can always buy it again if you still want to support motorola. But don't keep this device based on hope. Accept that moto screwed you and return it while you still can. I am 7 days to go...
No, I'm not keeping it based on hope. I want to keep it because I really like the form factor of the phone as well as its resolution and battery life. I also wanted a phone with HDMI out.
You don't need a custom kernel to have a ROM - sure that imposes limitations on what you can do. In fact, the GingerBlur ROM proved that you can get some enhancements of newer Android releases without changing the kernel.
I can understand though that fewer DEVs would be motivated to work on a phone with a locked/signed bootloader. However, the Droid X forums seem to be pretty active...
i too am a little disappointed at the shrinking dev base - i've seen some leave. however of AT&T android phones, regardless of the software this one appeals to me the most for its form factor/size (i wanted 4" over 4.3"), front-camera and color (all black). the HDMI out (+enabled webtop) is nice too, along with the screen resolution.
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
Well, I'm sticking with it regardless. I got it on launch day and I plan to enjoy it to the fullest.
The tegra 2 game that I want isn't even out yet.
NoNameAtAll said:
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
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Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
professor_chaos said:
Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
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Click to collapse
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
I just found out that DG has left us... this totally blows, though at least Kenneth is still working on the GingerBlur ROM.
eallan said:
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
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Did just that and never looked back. LTE Blows at&t out the water where I live and even tough single core...it feels just as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
It does suck we have one person creating roms. Ken is doing an amazing job but only one man can only do so much. I feel that if more devs were here creating roms people would stick around. I plan on keeping mine for awhile since I bought it outright...I'm due for an upgrade soon so well see.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
It's not the devs fault that Moto screwed them, most folks got it on the hint that moto had changed for the better and was going to make the bootloader open.
I can't blame the folks for taking them back.
Hell I have a Captivate, Hardware outstanding ( just like the Atrix, ok minus the GPS ) Software flat out sucks, at least the devs could do something with the Captivate with the open bootloader. It makes it a pretty damn good phone.
Just imagine what could done with the Atrix if the devs could actually do something with it, Kens isn't real happy either as I'm sure his considerable talent is being stifled by Moto, that burns his ass a lot more than folks returning it because moto rammed it home hard.
I'm sitting on couple of upgrades right now and would get the Atrix in a heartbeat IF Moto and ATT would allow it to be open for the devs. In the meantime I'll wait and may switch to Sprint ( even though I've been Orange for over ten years ) for the Evo3d ( think I read somewhere it has Wimax and LTE radios in it ), that thing is looking real nice and about as future proof as it get's in this industry.
Atrix is a bust Motorola really blew it with the locked bootloader. They underestimated the developer communities influence and it's coming back to bite them in their fat greedy ass.
BravoMotorola said:
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
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Click to collapse
It's not like everyone is saying that. But the ones saying that are really being vocal about it. I don't get all the hate. Phone has not even one month and mostly I see people complaining about the locked bootloader. Eventually, that will get cracked.
Devnant said:
Eventually, that will get cracked.
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such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
cegna09 said:
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
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and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
live4nyy said:
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
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i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
cegna09 said:
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
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Click to collapse
Given the specs of this phone and the capabilities I think that the development community represents a higher percentage in the overall buyers base for this phone. Rooting and custom ROMs are becoming more "fashionable" to average users. I'm not saying that there will be an immediate impact within the lifespan of this phone but if Moto continues these methods it will turn around to bite them
look at the other dual core tegra phone(optimus 2x). the devs and the the people there seems to be really happy with their phone now that clockwordmod is available and some custom kernels are already taking into place(optimus 2x is not yet release here in US and some part of europe)
so i think the locked bootloader is one of the major culprit why most devs are leaving atrix and so are some people who wants custom roms for their phone. its a big disppointment really, moto and at&t are [insert word here]
its a good phone but motorola is acting like apple.
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
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Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
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You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
This is only a question and dicussion I want to bring up, this is not about anything else, and truly not about disrespecting anyone, but just asking why is development slow... Please don't be offended, it was not my intentions by asking these things, just trying to figure why a nice phone doesn't have more people working on it is all..
I have my own ideas, maybe these are the reasons.
1. Smaller Company - but the Geeks know who Andy Rubin is
2. See number 1, with Andy Rubin at the wheel, where are the Android enthusiasts supporting the project?
3. Ok company has had a bad start, lots of bad reviews, mostly over the camera
So a smaller company, and the newbie phone users are all chasing after the bigger well known names, but again, what's happening here with the Android Geeks?
Anyhow, small company, bad reviews, started out costly, now prices are down. So where's the Android love for one of the Founders?
Agreed. But I guess we have 2 more years (till 2020, I guess) of support from essential side. I own Xiaomi Mi5 and Essential Ph1. Quite a lot of difference in development. SD820 has started to show signs of aging and 3GB ram is not holding up well. Will hold on to Essential for next few years. Hope development kicks in. Although happy with stock rom and android p beta program.
Not a bad phone at all. for 500 dollars. Not much into camera. Overall a great phone. Dunno why there was so much negativity around this phone.
del
@Rahat34, I sometimes wonder if there was just a lot of propaganda posting going on against the Essential. It was strange all the negativity as you mention, and to be honest, we all know all phones out there get their share of it, but for some reason, I really wondered when it came to this phone, now this was all without even owning this phone, I just thought it was odd. By the way, they just went on sale for half off, I ordered a few at $249USD...
But looks like the sale is over.
@Tech_Savvy, so is there any work going on with TWRP at the moment, that there should be something working soon?
As far as ROMS are concerned, there's a lot of Android users in the world, so saying how many we need, well, that's anyone's guess.
The AospExtended, this is a really nice ROM I'd like to see for the Essential.
Also if my eyes are seeing correct, I didn't notice Franco or Void with Kernels for the phone.
Then there's microG, any ROMs supporting it good?
I wonder, if Xposed is working good on Esssential with Oreo, stock or custom?
DoR3M3 said:
@Rahat34, I sometimes wonder if there was just a lot of propaganda posting going on against the Essential. It was strange all the negativity as you mention, and to be honest, we all know all phones out there get their share of it, but for some reason, I really wondered when it came to this phone, now this was all without even owning this phone, I just thought it was odd. By the way, they just went on sale for half off, I ordered a few at $249USD...
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Even for $500, gettiing a SD835, unlockable bootloader, titanium-ceramic build,a nice lcd panel (and what not) was a steal. $250, its nuts . Here, we get 625 schip at this much price and crappy glassy phones.
Must have been some sort of propaganda/conspiracy. Every phone has drawbacks, But boy every youtube review was bashing this phone.
Rahat34 said:
Even for $500, gettiing a SD835, unlockable bootloader, titanium-ceramic build,a nice lcd panel (and what not) was a steal. $250, its nuts . Here, we get 625 schip at this much price and crappy glassy phones.
Must have been some sort of propaganda/conspiracy. Every phone has drawbacks, But boy every youtube review was bashing this phone.
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Yes it's a low price I paid...
Depends what you're after really. If you want a few solid roms, or a hundred half baked bug ridden roms. I've done the "huge" forums before where I had to wade through twenty roms in order to find one that functioned decently. I'm past my days of needing to flash a new rom on a daily basis though. Work and kids keep me from having the time to do that anymore even if I wanted to.
I"ll take a solid dependable phone with support from the manufacturer any day.
I'll add as well, there are quite a few roms that are simply not posted on these forums (validus, gzosp, etc).
crixley said:
I'll add as well, there are quite a few roms that are simply not posted on these forums (validus, gzosp, etc).
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Ive heard to go to discord but ive found nothing. Where should i go to find them?
Sure no one wants half baked, but there should be twice the amount of development going on that is at present.
Anyhow, I would hope that everyone agrees there is not a lot of development going on.
So, what do people think on this forum about an email drafted up, and the Modding Community reaching out to Essential, in hopes of building up it's modding development?
just got the phone from prime day sale plus extra $100 off from AMEX, paid around $170 total. I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised by the build quality, it makes my LG V30 feels like a toy. Reception problem with AT&T is real though I would actually see zero reception driving around my neighborhood in upstate NY which never happens in any other phones I have.
oceansoul said:
just got the phone from prime day sale plus extra $100 off from AMEX, paid around $170 total. I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised by the build quality, it makes my LG V30 feels like a toy. Reception problem with AT&T is real though I would actually see zero reception driving around my neighborhood in upstate NY which never happens in any other phones I have.
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@oceansoul, sorry, not sure what you mean by your post for development?
Thanks
you asked for why there is so little development for the phone, maybe because of the reception issue, not many people are using it? at the same spot I am getting -112dBm for PH-1 and -83dBm for Lg V30 on ATT LTE band 2
It really doesn't sound like you'll be happy with this phone, I'm sure someone will take it off your hands.
oceansoul said:
toxic much? you asked for why there is so little development for the phone, maybe because of the reception issue, not many people are using it? at the same spot I am getting -112dBm for PH-1 and -83dBm for Lg V30 on ATT LTE band 2
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toxic much, what does that mean?