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READ YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...kers-with-legal-action-for-distributing-roms/
I guess I know what i'll be downloading all day till I got work
That's for Windows Mobile.
hTC can't stop anyone distributing AOSP ROMs, but they could throw the hammer down on distributing their Sense ROMS.
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
wcdisciple said:
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
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Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
HTC is only one company of many building phones with Android. Whether you like Sense or not is your decision. G1 and MT3G (with google) were never intended to run with Sense. And no one can sue us for using AOSP ROM's. So i have no problem with it compared to apple, who will preselect the software for you...
Jailbreaking the iPhone isn't legal by the way...
PS: don't want to start an Apple/Android war, but leaving one company suing others for another company suing people since years and taking it for the reason why, seems a bit curious to me...
hudl said:
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
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He's been on a rampage with it.
On a better note: I don't think this will stop ROM development. Didn't xda go through the same thing, but HTC didn't care about the actual developed ROMs?
Edit: Can't find anything to support that. :/ Remember reading it somewhere - might have been bs, but I swear it was on xda news.
HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action - WORST MISTAKE EVER
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
legend221 said:
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
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But they didn't take it down because of them being custom ROMs. They were all just the basic stock ROMs that came with the phone. Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP. However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs.
r3s-rt said:
Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP.
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There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
r3s-rt said:
However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs
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A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
legend221 said:
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
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Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
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And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
r3s-rt said:
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
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Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
r3s-rt said:
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
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Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
legend221 said:
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
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You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
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Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
r3s-rt said:
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
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Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
No one said the C&D came from HTC, seeing as you are a reader on xda I knew I didnt have to explain this to you. hahaha. It is in Google's best interest to let the Devs continue thier greatness because guess what many would jump ship to Windows Mobile devices or other OS including the iPhone even though there are not Roms for it I believe. If Android Development was not allowed to continue, at least most people would stop buying Android powered phones I believe.
Yawn........ time for bed now.
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
legend221 said:
No one said the C&D came from HTC
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Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
legend221 said:
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
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I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Binary100100 said:
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
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I'm not under that assumption; I take you include me in the all. I just stated that at least this won't affect custom ROMs and he went on about how custom ROMs are so different and don't contain IP. That's what I've been trying to get across in all my posts. And no, I don't think their sales will be affected .
r3s-rt said:
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
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You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
legend221 said:
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
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Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
r3s-rt said:
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
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The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
lbcoder said:
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
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1. Didn't even think about all that.
2. That's exactly what I thought. Microsoft is so scared of a lonely developer doing better than what their out-the-ass payed developers do. Honestly, why would the manufacturer of the phone give a damn what you do with it when you buy it? No matter what way you look at it: their task is to sell the phones they manufacture.
Anybody else hear about this? Is this going to prevent us from modifying ROMs? I thought we took care of that issue back when Cyanogen got his Cease and Desist order from Google. I've gotta say that I have been recommending HTC to everyone but if they wont allow thier ROMs to be modified anymore. I guess I'll have to purchase my next android phone from another company :-(
tman7510 said:
Anybody else hear about this? Is this going to prevent us from modifying ROMs? I thought we took care of that issue back when Cyanogen got his Cease and Desist order from Google. I've gotta say that I have been recommending HTC to everyone but if they wont allow thier ROMs to be modified anymore. I guess I'll have to purchase my next android phone from another company :-(
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What do you mean "we" took care of this. The only ones that are complying with the "law" is Cyanogen, and I guess Ben is with SuperE. The rest are still bundling Google and HTC apps with their ROM mods.
This has nothing to do with what happened between Cyanogen and Google. In this case, HTC doesn't want their full roms being distributed by someone other than themselves. They also questioned the legality of where the roms came from. Can't say I blame them one bit for protecting their intellectual property.
wpbcubsfan said:
This has nothing to do with what happened between Cyanogen and Google. In this case, HTC doesn't want their full roms being distributed by someone other than themselves. They also questioned the legality of where the roms came from. Can't say I blame them one bit for protecting their intellectual property.
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Actually, the problem was with Google and Cyanogen, and how cyanogen was using google's intellectual, non-open source apps and including them in the build. HTC had nothing to do with it.
The problem now is that shipped-roms was realeasing softwre for unreleased devices before they even hit the market, and HTC doesn't like that.
wpbcubsfan said:
This has nothing to do with what happened between Cyanogen and Google. In this case, HTC doesn't want their full roms being distributed by someone other than themselves. They also questioned the legality of where the roms came from. Can't say I blame them one bit for protecting their intellectual property.
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If this is the case (I did not read what was going on) I agree totally with what you say. You can't blame them for protecting what they have spent time and who knows how much money creating.
I find the "we" mention funny.
I also find it amusing that someone gets so upset when something like this happens and "threatens" to not buy from that company anymore, when all HTC is doing is protecting their IP.
My Suggestion. Download as many ROMs as possible before it's too late lol. *Runs to ROMs*
Well.. i wouldnt even say that... from what I understand from a post a few up... they are upset about their UNRELEASED stuff surfacing on the net... which is understandable.. as far as the ROMS or anything like that... HTC has no say whether u flash a custom rom or not... the farthest they could go.. is saying that sense ui cannot be distributed in hacked roms... same story as google.. As far as them saying you cannot flash any other rom besides their own or what was made for the specific device.. I dont think they are saying that.. or would have any grounds saying u couldnt put 2.1 on a g1 since it is currently only supports 1.6 (stock)..
Do you consider running or creating a modified ROM stealing Google's or HTC's IP. I sure as hell dont think I'm stealing anything. The whole reason I like and bought HTC's phone is because of the large number of mods to choose from. I dont run stock ROMs and I dont know too many who do. I would think that HTC would thank people for improving on their stock ROMs which in turn increases thier sales and demand for thier phones! No one takes credit for the work done by the developers over at google or HTC. I think everyone appreciates the work but just one tha ability to modify and improve apon it. It can only improve the experience of using our phones.
Hey xyrcncp, what are you doing on this forum if you dont use or want to use modified ROMs developed jointly by Google and HTC. I find it amusing that some one on this site is so concerned with HTC's IP. Maybe you should just stick to using stock ROMs and OTAs.....LOLZ
This has already been posed everywhere. STOP THE COPYPASTA!
My guess is ROMs from the AOSP are fine. Those that use HTC's Sense UI would be in trouble. Which is only logical from an IP law point of view. Whether that's a good idea for HTC is another issue. Same for Goog. No one questions their legal right to C&D Cyan. It came down to whether it was logical as a biz decision.
ytj87 said:
My guess is ROMs from the AOSP are fine. Those that use HTC's Sense UI would be in trouble. Which is only logical from an IP law point of view. Whether that's a good idea for HTC is another issue. Same for Goog. No one questions their legal right to C&D Cyan. It came down to whether it was logical as a biz decision.
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Lets remember that it didn't only host Android ROMs.
Moved as not Android Development.
I do not want to upset anybody, just trying to get some understanding of the entire upgrade to a new OS version.
I'm a programmer myself, but on Windows platform and mostly do middle tier business server side apps. Do not know a thing about Linux and android. But had some java experience in the past.
I wonder why we cannot get Froyo so long? Ain't the sources open? Even if we do not have some drivers, these parts cannot change dramatically from version to version. Published API must be stable...
Is this about Dalvik JVM? But, I guess this must be in released ROMs for other phones in the line.
What's the deal? Will appreciate some explanation here.
Android is open source, but that is only the operating system and the kernel, but the drivers and RIL that make the device actually functional are the issue as far as I'm aware. From what I've read here and in IRC, Samsung gave us a hack-job RIL, which is causing many of the issues with getting an AOSP ROM fully compiled and working. I think there may be some driver issues as well to be worked out yet, but I feel those are less important than getting things like phone/data/messaging working. I'm guessing there are more technical reasons why they can't just get 2.1 or 2.2 built from source, but those are probably the big issues.
Honestly, it boils down to Samsung.
Put simply, they're crappy coders (as HTC once was many moons ago), or they're just hella lazy (I strongly believe its the former, given RFS and this RIL mess). Most companies are pretty crappy coders, but most of the time, it doesn't interfere with major things, like OS upgrades.
That, plus the lack of effort or support on Samsung's part, has me never wanting to buy another Samsung phone again, or ever recommending an Android phone from Samsung....
I'm gonna do my best to find in my next phone another quick processor with a nice super AMOLED screen and be done with Samsung, I've had enough, and I'm a very patient person....
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
CNemo7539 said:
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
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if it could have been done, birdman would have done it already
Well I think it's a valid question. Some might think it tedious or obnoxious, but absolutely valid. This is a development forum after all. The reason we don't have 2.2 isn't a hardware limitation, so it must be a practical one -- or yes it would be here.
But I'll just speak from speculation in the hopes that someone will correct me. For god sakes this is a development forum! We've got releases, we have fixes, we have patches, we have complaints, we have gossip. I'd love to see all the _development_ discussion I can get.
From a wider puzzle-piece perspective, I would like to know what is missing. We have working drivers. We have working hardware. We have full source from Google for the operating system. There are several other android phones on Verizon, a few even have Froyo. Sprint currently offers a CDMA Galaxy S phone (Epic) with android 2.2, and that phone possibly shares some hardware (though the WIMAX radio is totally irrelevant to us).
I'm not up to speed on exactly what the RIL is, or how it gets plugged into the android kernel. The RIL (Radio Interface Layer) is a software layer between android itself and the drivers controlling the phone hardware. Google provides some samples for a carrier to create one to govern communication on their network. I'd expect one issue of randomly hacking something like this, is if you are taking over your radio hardware's communications, then you have the capability of putting unwanted data on the network, which might even be criminal. Am I being extreme? So, perhaps we can't touch the RIL and need to wait for it to be spoonfed to us by those that bought the radio band from the FCC. Perhaps this code is inexorably married to particular hardware, unavailable for reading, or even encrypted. Maybe the primary limitation is the royal pain in the apricots that it is to inspect, decompile, and reverse engineer binary code.
But what if we could do something?
My understanding is the RIL is only a carrier-specific interface to the underlying hardware. Shouldn't it be similar between phones, even with wildly different hardware? Shouldn't its interface also be similar between close versions of android? The Droid 2 is a verizon phone with a RIL that does indeed work with Froyo. What I'd like to know is A) can another phone's RIL be extracted within the same carrier, and B) Being the abstract entity that it is, what prevents it from being married to the Fascinate's hardware base?
To be honest, I ardently believe a frank discussion (sans opinions, complains, problems, just productive discussion w/ a smattering of facts) BELONGS in the Development forum.
I'll stop here, in case this thread dies, as so many of mine do.
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I don't know anything about how the RIL works, but I would assume that it could only be easily ported from one device to another if they were using the same chipset in the underlying hardware for the phone. I doubt you'd be able to take the Droid 2/X RIL, and take it to the Droid 2 Global or Droid Pro. Given that, I'm guessing that you can't really take a RIL from one phone and put it on another without extensive work, since most OEMs tend to use different hardware in their devices. From what I've heard, there is a semi-working AOSP build floating around, so the devs are trying, but Samsung's crappy source to work from is not making things easy for them.
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
ksizzle9 said:
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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i believe there was still no radio at all in aosp, and the hope is that 2.2 can fill in the gaps
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
CNemo7539 said:
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
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is it possible? perhaps...but the 5 or so guys who really develop for this phone havent been able to get it to work....nor is aosp working 100% on any galaxy s phone
Response from developers?
Anyone?
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
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Agree get your ass moving so we can have teh honeycombzzzz. Quit being such a lazy stingy jerk and get us our AOSP!
ksizzle9 said:
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
yes i was just pulling one dev name out for the heck of it
but i subscribe to the "if it could have been done, it would have been done"
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
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Click to collapse
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that may be a problem for those who just stay here as virtually everything is irc only these days...or the majority of it anyway
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
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Click to collapse
How many different ways do people need to say that "it's being worked on"? The devs are doing a lot of work on our device, but also working with other stuff, all in their free time. Follow the stuff they do on Twitter and github, or join in on IRC.
Attitudes such as your's are precisely why the devs have stopped posting stuff here. You act as though it's a simple process to do things, when it isn't, especially when Samsung gives you a crappy base to start from. The devs have to first get Samsung's source fixed and cleaned up, then start on whatever it is they want to work on, all while finding more bugs and issues that need fixed, primarily all stemming from the crappy source. If you want to be angry at someone, make it Samsung, not the few devs that are working on our device.
Sent from my StupidFast Voodoo Fascinate
As I said - I will survive. I'm OK even with not rooted stock.
Was it so difficult to answer what the real problem is? I don't know what is the problem with this generation? Do I need to be on FB, irc or whatever to get the answer? Why do not answer in place? Ain't it this forum purpose?
No, seems like I need to kiss somebody ass to get meaningful response these days... That way he can maintain his "super god" status.
I do believe I've been pretty polite stating my question, even though English is not my native language. What generated so much sarcasm?
Hi I wanted to buy a wp8 device but after reading this article I gave up buying a wp8 device. Because no custom roms is a deal-breaker for me. So looks like its not possible to unlock wp8 devices for now but I don't know is it gonna be in the future. I'm asking because I don't know how unlocking process works because I never used a wp device. I know how android system works but I have no idea about wp devices. So if you guys can explain if it can be done in the future or why we will never be able to unlock wp8 devices. :good:
Edit: Its no longer a deal-breaker for me I thought unlock was important as much as jailbreak on iphone and root on android. But thanks for helping me realise wp devices do not need unlock
Edit2: I bought a lumia 920. You guys were right wp is awesome. Only things I am missing from android is file explorer, rotation lock and notifications.
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
martan1981 said:
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
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You can be right, custom roms means a lot on android and jailbreak means a lot for iphone. So I thought unlock is important like jailbreak/root. But if not, I'm definitely gonna buy a wp8 Thanks for the info about roms. I want to ask, can we install local apps like we can do at android without unlocking?
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place, and not because of customization or whatever else then less enlighten users use ROMs for.
mcosmin222 said:
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place
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Click to collapse
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Yeh the Op is kinda exaggerating with the deal-breaker though.
mcosmin222 said:
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
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As I've just pointed out, improvement is not needed. On the other hand, is improvement improvement? Why, yes.
thebobp said:
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
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Click to collapse
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
^ in your opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
link68759 said:
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free tethering? My experience tells me that only the Dell Venue Pro is incapable of wi-fi tethering because of the chipset. The carriers have disabled the feature but a lot of phones can be interop unlocked and have the feature enabled. Heck, the Quantum requires little effort since it has an onboard reg edit tool. Google be thy friend.
Amazing! (And incredibly stupid!)
This will eventually flood this forum with unhappy users, wishing to mod their devices...after having seen their cool AOS counter parts.
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
You realize that the place you're posting to caters to the small percentage of people who want / use any flexibility afforded them, right?
The elegance of a closed system (relatively speaking) is the stability you can accomplish. This is the apple model to a tee, and for most people it's fine.
BUT, flexibility is where windows the traditional OS, Android, and Linux shine. There are always optimizations that can be done, always tweaks, custom apps galore. Android ROMs have spoiled us, masses be dammed.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2
dragonide said:
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has began.
I actually am for Custom ROMs. Sorry, but Devs sometimes just do a better job at things. A Interop Unlocking and Custom ROMs made my Trophy a heck of a lot more enjoyable to use.
And I disagree with all the lock downs MS has in place. Email, messaging clients, browsers, keyboards. We are all stuck with one version. No chance to use versions a Dev could provide that would give us more options and features. Sometimes, Devs just do things better. The MS locked apps I listed, among others, can all be improved upon. Rather than waiting or hoping MS does more to improve them, itd be a lot nicer to have options of 3rd party devs.
lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
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Click to collapse
So WP8 has a file explorer?
lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
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Click to collapse
Now that I have WP8 I no longer have custom ROMs, and here's a list of things I'm missing.
-Being able to back up and restore isolated storage (aka game saves and apps with braindamaged devs who don't export to skydrive)
-Setting goddamn custom notification sounds.
-Enabling internet sharing on AT&T
-Bluetooth file transfer for unsupported files
-USB Video out
And the biggest thing was updates to the latest build (7.8), because you either have to wait years to get the stupid thing, or you just never get it. WP8 seems to have solved that issue, but it's a big thing for 7.x
There is significantly more homebrew than apps that can be pirated too... So no, WP8 is not perfect out of the box yet.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
IMHO there is stil need for custom roms with WP8. This system for many might need to be changed. For example (I had Lumia 920 but beeing annoyed I've sold it) People Hub. I had Facebook account and LinkedIIn configured and connected with Microsoft Account. Hopefully People Hub allows me to display only those people from my Outlook Account with photos of them from LinkedIn or Facebook. That's good. Where is the problem - mail app which seems not to use People Hub filtering and after I've started writing somebody's email it was trying to suggest me all of the people from my linkedin and facebook. Facebook is a toy for me, email is a tool for work. I dont's wanna havve facebook contacts in my email. What's more - I don't wan't to see non skype contacts on my skype list. How to solve it ? Only custom rom may help with modified People Hub service.
dansus72 said:
So WP8 has a file explorer?
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Click to collapse
if you're not being sarcastic, and really asking- i'm taking no offense of malice either way, just answering
no, there is no file explorer. this is hotly debated over and over again as to wether its a needed feature or just a 'gimmie' app on other platforms. some even argue that a file explorer on wp8 makes it insecure. whatever.
i'm seeing fewer and fewer posts here on xda pertaining to wp. even the extremely optimistic wpcentral forum is turning a little more 'real' since MWC turned into a nokia-only festival for wp.
anyway, i'm getting sidetracked. hope i answered your question nicely
l
I cannot tell you anything specifically to your phone but I can tell you some things in general.
Some people will probably tell you that it's not worth to root your phone in 2021 but I wouldn't agree. I rooted my first phone in 2013 and I've changed tons of phones from that time never being able to go more than seven days without root. It's a kind of addiction so you will get used to feeling that phone is totally yours due to the fact you can do whatever you want with it.
It doesn't mean that it's totally safe and people who don't know what they are doing can **** the things up. It's not because of the root but it's because of the people. Some people just play with the things they shouldn't play with.
Everything considering your phone and its futures depends on the custom ROM.
You may get a totally different custom ROM which doesn't have to do anything with your current phone or you can make it literally the same one which will be rooted.
"OS" is "ROM".
Everything depends on what you can find. I don't know about every phone on this world so browse the forum and you will see.
I haven't used my phone for anything else other than entertainment so I can't really tell you anything about your work but considering that you work, depending on where you work, it may be a little bit unsafe.
dedq said:
I cannot tell you anything specifically to your phone but I can tell you some things in general.
Some people will probably tell you that it's not worth to root your phone in 2021 but I wouldn't agree. I rooted my first phone in 2013 and I've changed tons of phones from that time never being able to go more than seven days without root. It's a kind of addiction so you will get used to feeling that phone is totally yours due to the fact you can do whatever you want with it.
It doesn't mean that it's totally safe and people who don't know what they are doing can **** the things up. It's not because of the root but it's because of the people. Some people just play with the things they shouldn't play with.
Everything considering your phone and its futures depends on the custom ROM.
You may get a totally different custom ROM which doesn't have to do anything with your current phone or you can make it literally the same one which will be rooted.
"OS" is "ROM".
Everything depends on what you can find. I don't know about every phone on this world so browse the forum and you will see.
I haven't used my phone for anything else other than entertainment so I can't really tell you anything about your work but considering that you work, depending on where you work, it may be a little bit unsafe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you very much for your detailed answer @dedq
so a ROM can be replaced after rooting with something else rather than default "Android" right?
i'm a really cautious person so i wouldn't play with some setting until i know what i'm doing with it first
another thing please, do you mean by unsafe that the ROM could have vulnerability for attackers to acces my phone?
or things may get lost?
Jonsnoww said:
thank you very much for your detailed answer @dedq
so a ROM can be replaced after rooting with something else rather than default "Android" right?
i'm a really cautious person so i wouldn't play with some setting until i know what i'm doing with it first
another thing please, do you mean by unsafe that the ROM could have vulnerability for attackers to acces my phone?
or things may get lost?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Default Android" is your current ROM. You have ROM now as well. We have all been very cautious in the beginning with these kinds of things like flashing U systems and those kinds of things but the thing is chances are high that you will **** something up. Everyone did that and you can count on yourself probably going to third-party technician at least two or three times. We have never made those mistakes on purpose but it's very slippery to play with these kinds of things. I suggest you don't change anything if you really need your phone on daily basis because you may lose it for a couple of days. I'm talking from my experience but I hope you won't have negative experiences if you want to try rooting and doing something more.
It is always assumed that your phone is the safest when it's default. That means no root and no flashing anything. Rooting your phone is basically opening it to tons of vulnerabilities.
Don't play with those kinds of things if you work some kind of job where your phone is under constant surveillance.
Jonsnoww said:
Hello,
so i have a Redmi note 7 - Global Version (Lavender) phone, and i have so many questions that concerns me about..
first of all i don't like how things getting very slow with my MIUI and the android 10
i thought of rooting the phone but I'm not sure if it's worth it.. there's so many confusing things on the web and tutorials to choose from.
i don't like how companies collect data and peek on my privacy silently in the background that's why i would like to root if it's going to solve this problem. I'm afraid that i won't be able to find the features i have now if i rooted my phone and installed a new ROM for example, will my phone work properly with all of the existing features in it? what's the downside to voting or choosing a wrong ROM?
and if finally found the best ROM for me, am i obligated to do updates to it manually every time a security patch comes on for example?
i mean the work is not over by just successfully installing a new ROM and rooting?
second what is the best ROM out there? IS OS same as ROM? or the ROM is just representing the UI "for example MIUI" ? or is it replacing " Android"?
any privacy concerns? or attacks? i'll be using my phone for work and very important stuff.. that i can't lose..
please someone enlighten me
and i'm so sorry for very basic questions but i got lost in so much reading articles
thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I’m also of the opinion that rooting is worth the eventual hassle. Except that it’s not that big a hassle on this phone if you use Orangefox and the build in root solution. If you choose not to root but care about privacy take a look at Netguard (Github version).