Related
READ YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...kers-with-legal-action-for-distributing-roms/
I guess I know what i'll be downloading all day till I got work
That's for Windows Mobile.
hTC can't stop anyone distributing AOSP ROMs, but they could throw the hammer down on distributing their Sense ROMS.
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
wcdisciple said:
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
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Click to collapse
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
HTC is only one company of many building phones with Android. Whether you like Sense or not is your decision. G1 and MT3G (with google) were never intended to run with Sense. And no one can sue us for using AOSP ROM's. So i have no problem with it compared to apple, who will preselect the software for you...
Jailbreaking the iPhone isn't legal by the way...
PS: don't want to start an Apple/Android war, but leaving one company suing others for another company suing people since years and taking it for the reason why, seems a bit curious to me...
hudl said:
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
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Click to collapse
He's been on a rampage with it.
On a better note: I don't think this will stop ROM development. Didn't xda go through the same thing, but HTC didn't care about the actual developed ROMs?
Edit: Can't find anything to support that. :/ Remember reading it somewhere - might have been bs, but I swear it was on xda news.
HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action - WORST MISTAKE EVER
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
legend221 said:
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
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Click to collapse
But they didn't take it down because of them being custom ROMs. They were all just the basic stock ROMs that came with the phone. Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP. However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs.
r3s-rt said:
Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP.
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Click to collapse
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
r3s-rt said:
However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs
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Click to collapse
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
legend221 said:
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
r3s-rt said:
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
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Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
r3s-rt said:
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
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Click to collapse
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
legend221 said:
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
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Click to collapse
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
r3s-rt said:
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
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Click to collapse
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
No one said the C&D came from HTC, seeing as you are a reader on xda I knew I didnt have to explain this to you. hahaha. It is in Google's best interest to let the Devs continue thier greatness because guess what many would jump ship to Windows Mobile devices or other OS including the iPhone even though there are not Roms for it I believe. If Android Development was not allowed to continue, at least most people would stop buying Android powered phones I believe.
Yawn........ time for bed now.
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
legend221 said:
No one said the C&D came from HTC
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Click to collapse
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
legend221 said:
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Binary100100 said:
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
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Click to collapse
I'm not under that assumption; I take you include me in the all. I just stated that at least this won't affect custom ROMs and he went on about how custom ROMs are so different and don't contain IP. That's what I've been trying to get across in all my posts. And no, I don't think their sales will be affected .
r3s-rt said:
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
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Click to collapse
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
legend221 said:
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
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Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
r3s-rt said:
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
lbcoder said:
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
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Click to collapse
1. Didn't even think about all that.
2. That's exactly what I thought. Microsoft is so scared of a lonely developer doing better than what their out-the-ass payed developers do. Honestly, why would the manufacturer of the phone give a damn what you do with it when you buy it? No matter what way you look at it: their task is to sell the phones they manufacture.
I do not want to upset anybody, just trying to get some understanding of the entire upgrade to a new OS version.
I'm a programmer myself, but on Windows platform and mostly do middle tier business server side apps. Do not know a thing about Linux and android. But had some java experience in the past.
I wonder why we cannot get Froyo so long? Ain't the sources open? Even if we do not have some drivers, these parts cannot change dramatically from version to version. Published API must be stable...
Is this about Dalvik JVM? But, I guess this must be in released ROMs for other phones in the line.
What's the deal? Will appreciate some explanation here.
Android is open source, but that is only the operating system and the kernel, but the drivers and RIL that make the device actually functional are the issue as far as I'm aware. From what I've read here and in IRC, Samsung gave us a hack-job RIL, which is causing many of the issues with getting an AOSP ROM fully compiled and working. I think there may be some driver issues as well to be worked out yet, but I feel those are less important than getting things like phone/data/messaging working. I'm guessing there are more technical reasons why they can't just get 2.1 or 2.2 built from source, but those are probably the big issues.
Honestly, it boils down to Samsung.
Put simply, they're crappy coders (as HTC once was many moons ago), or they're just hella lazy (I strongly believe its the former, given RFS and this RIL mess). Most companies are pretty crappy coders, but most of the time, it doesn't interfere with major things, like OS upgrades.
That, plus the lack of effort or support on Samsung's part, has me never wanting to buy another Samsung phone again, or ever recommending an Android phone from Samsung....
I'm gonna do my best to find in my next phone another quick processor with a nice super AMOLED screen and be done with Samsung, I've had enough, and I'm a very patient person....
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
CNemo7539 said:
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it could have been done, birdman would have done it already
Well I think it's a valid question. Some might think it tedious or obnoxious, but absolutely valid. This is a development forum after all. The reason we don't have 2.2 isn't a hardware limitation, so it must be a practical one -- or yes it would be here.
But I'll just speak from speculation in the hopes that someone will correct me. For god sakes this is a development forum! We've got releases, we have fixes, we have patches, we have complaints, we have gossip. I'd love to see all the _development_ discussion I can get.
From a wider puzzle-piece perspective, I would like to know what is missing. We have working drivers. We have working hardware. We have full source from Google for the operating system. There are several other android phones on Verizon, a few even have Froyo. Sprint currently offers a CDMA Galaxy S phone (Epic) with android 2.2, and that phone possibly shares some hardware (though the WIMAX radio is totally irrelevant to us).
I'm not up to speed on exactly what the RIL is, or how it gets plugged into the android kernel. The RIL (Radio Interface Layer) is a software layer between android itself and the drivers controlling the phone hardware. Google provides some samples for a carrier to create one to govern communication on their network. I'd expect one issue of randomly hacking something like this, is if you are taking over your radio hardware's communications, then you have the capability of putting unwanted data on the network, which might even be criminal. Am I being extreme? So, perhaps we can't touch the RIL and need to wait for it to be spoonfed to us by those that bought the radio band from the FCC. Perhaps this code is inexorably married to particular hardware, unavailable for reading, or even encrypted. Maybe the primary limitation is the royal pain in the apricots that it is to inspect, decompile, and reverse engineer binary code.
But what if we could do something?
My understanding is the RIL is only a carrier-specific interface to the underlying hardware. Shouldn't it be similar between phones, even with wildly different hardware? Shouldn't its interface also be similar between close versions of android? The Droid 2 is a verizon phone with a RIL that does indeed work with Froyo. What I'd like to know is A) can another phone's RIL be extracted within the same carrier, and B) Being the abstract entity that it is, what prevents it from being married to the Fascinate's hardware base?
To be honest, I ardently believe a frank discussion (sans opinions, complains, problems, just productive discussion w/ a smattering of facts) BELONGS in the Development forum.
I'll stop here, in case this thread dies, as so many of mine do.
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I don't know anything about how the RIL works, but I would assume that it could only be easily ported from one device to another if they were using the same chipset in the underlying hardware for the phone. I doubt you'd be able to take the Droid 2/X RIL, and take it to the Droid 2 Global or Droid Pro. Given that, I'm guessing that you can't really take a RIL from one phone and put it on another without extensive work, since most OEMs tend to use different hardware in their devices. From what I've heard, there is a semi-working AOSP build floating around, so the devs are trying, but Samsung's crappy source to work from is not making things easy for them.
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
ksizzle9 said:
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe there was still no radio at all in aosp, and the hope is that 2.2 can fill in the gaps
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
CNemo7539 said:
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it possible? perhaps...but the 5 or so guys who really develop for this phone havent been able to get it to work....nor is aosp working 100% on any galaxy s phone
Response from developers?
Anyone?
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree get your ass moving so we can have teh honeycombzzzz. Quit being such a lazy stingy jerk and get us our AOSP!
ksizzle9 said:
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i was just pulling one dev name out for the heck of it
but i subscribe to the "if it could have been done, it would have been done"
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
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Click to collapse
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that may be a problem for those who just stay here as virtually everything is irc only these days...or the majority of it anyway
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many different ways do people need to say that "it's being worked on"? The devs are doing a lot of work on our device, but also working with other stuff, all in their free time. Follow the stuff they do on Twitter and github, or join in on IRC.
Attitudes such as your's are precisely why the devs have stopped posting stuff here. You act as though it's a simple process to do things, when it isn't, especially when Samsung gives you a crappy base to start from. The devs have to first get Samsung's source fixed and cleaned up, then start on whatever it is they want to work on, all while finding more bugs and issues that need fixed, primarily all stemming from the crappy source. If you want to be angry at someone, make it Samsung, not the few devs that are working on our device.
Sent from my StupidFast Voodoo Fascinate
As I said - I will survive. I'm OK even with not rooted stock.
Was it so difficult to answer what the real problem is? I don't know what is the problem with this generation? Do I need to be on FB, irc or whatever to get the answer? Why do not answer in place? Ain't it this forum purpose?
No, seems like I need to kiss somebody ass to get meaningful response these days... That way he can maintain his "super god" status.
I do believe I've been pretty polite stating my question, even though English is not my native language. What generated so much sarcasm?
http://mobile.computerworld.com/dev...erworld.com/17612/google_android_30_honeycomb
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I will buy it
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
heres a link to the video from engadet, because that website doesn't have it.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/google-shows-off-android-3-0-the-entirely-for-tablet-honeycom/
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
As long as it retains the Android functionality, adds google docs integration and Netflix app I know what I will be getting for Christmas next year unless it is released earlier
oka1 said:
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just another version of Android, so that's obvious.
The bigger issue here is how much of the functionality will be backported to existing Android handsets.
For example, the Google Talk Client in that video supports Native Video chat. Will Existing phones with FFC get a backported GTalk client, or will it require a firmware upgrade (which will probably never come to the likes of an Evo, MT4G, and Epic4G)?
It's extremely frustrating to use a platform with so many functionality gaps that requires you to upgrade you phone virtually every 6 months just to get trivial Quality of Life updates, or do the Custom ROM upgrade treadmill thing...
oka1 said:
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
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Google hasn't announce the Honeycomb for mobile phones yet, the current handsets on the market if they will get the upgrade might already be obsolete, the upcoming dual processor powered handsets will be more suitable for the new OS release, and I am pretty sure the time the news will trickle down we might as well just be on the market for the new handsets. I understand not everyone shares the same view but I know for myself I would not be holding onto my Vibrant till it evaporates into dust
N8ter said:
It's just another version of Android, so that's obvious.
The bigger issue here is how much of the functionality will be backported to existing Android handsets.
For example, the Google Talk Client in that video supports Native Video chat. Will Existing phones with FFC get a backported GTalk client, or will it require a firmware upgrade (which will probably never come to the likes of an Evo, MT4G, and Epic4G)?
It's extremely frustrating to use a platform with so many functionality gaps that requires you to upgrade you phone virtually every 6 months just to get trivial Quality of Life updates, or do the Custom ROM upgrade treadmill thing...
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Click to collapse
What functionality gaps? There are phones out right now with video calling, why does it matter if its native? if the upgrades are trivial, why are you worrying about them?
You do realize you don't have to upgrade from custom roms, you can stick to using an older one. I already know the answer to that, I find your sig hilarious because its your sig.
j0hnZ said:
What functionality gaps? There are phones out right now with video calling, why does it matter if its native? if the upgrades are trivial, why are you worrying about them?
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1. Because video calling on Android is fragmented to hell right now. Some people use QIK. Some people use Tango. Some people use Yahoo, Fring, etc. I'm not installing 3-5 applications on my phone (2-3 of which runs battery whoring services in the background) just to video call. A native solution is necessary, unless a more umbiquitous 3rd party like Skype brings Video Calling to Android.
That's why a Native Solution is needed. So that you can just look in Google Talk and video call with anyone you know who has it installed on their Android phone OR Computer/Notebook/Netbook.
2. It's trivial in a way that it should be easy to backport them to lower Android versions. That's why I worry about them. Phones aren't cheap - contract or not. This was particularly an issue going from Android 1.5 to 1.6,a nd FroYo to Gingerbread is looking somewhat similar, IMO. Again, fairly obvious...
You do realize you don't have to upgrade from custom roms, you can stick to using an older one. I already know the answer to that, I find your sig hilarious because its your sig.
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Click to collapse
I think you're missing the point. You don't have to use anything. You can be totally stock forever. So what...
Custom ROMs have issues and the release cycle of them is too fast, yet they're endorsed here as if they're official ROM builds. When one build fixes an issue, it often introduces another issue (I read change logs, and I do keep up with them somewhat, even though I don't use them). It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
The fact that you don't have to upgrade you ROM doesn't mean you won't have to upgrade your ROM.
Official ROMs and devices will get thoroughly reviewed by me in the future, especially since I plan to move off of T-Mobile and only stick with carriers that give 30 day return policies.
Glad you like the sig /rolleyes
Morrill: No minimum processor requirements for Honeycomb http://bit.ly/eK9qrG
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
alvintimothyjr said:
Morrill: No minimum processor requirements for Honeycomb http://bit.ly/eK9qrG
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
What about RAM?
Well, probably won't be an issue for Galaxy S phones since the Nexus S probably has the same RAM configuration as ours...
N8ter said:
1. Because video calling on Android is fragmented to hell right now. Some people use QIK. Some people use Tango. Some people use Yahoo, Fring, etc. I'm not installing 3-5 applications on my phone (2-3 of which runs battery whoring services in the background) just to video call. A native solution is necessary, unless a more umbiquitous 3rd party like Skype brings Video Calling to Android.
That's why a Native Solution is needed. So that you can just look in Google Talk and video call with anyone you know who has it installed on their Android phone OR Computer/Notebook/Netbook.
2. It's trivial in a way that it should be easy to backport them to lower Android versions. That's why I worry about them. Phones aren't cheap - contract or not. This was particularly an issue going from Android 1.5 to 1.6,a nd FroYo to Gingerbread is looking somewhat similar, IMO. Again, fairly obvious...
I think you're missing the point. You don't have to use anything. You can be totally stock forever. So what...
Custom ROMs have issues and the release cycle of them is too fast, yet they're endorsed here as if they're official ROM builds. When one build fixes an issue, it often introduces another issue (I read change logs, and I do keep up with them somewhat, even though I don't use them). It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
The fact that you don't have to upgrade you ROM doesn't mean you won't have to upgrade your ROM.
Official ROMs and devices will get thoroughly reviewed by me in the future, especially since I plan to move off of T-Mobile and only stick with carriers that give 30 day return policies.
Glad you like the sig /rolleyes
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Click to collapse
I get that they have all the different video calling options will make it difficult how about one that integrates all of them into one app ala trillian? Then if your someone who likes to talk to people on different messengers you can have an all in one variety without limiting others to your specifications.
I know TW has a few final builds that you can use until you get a new phone. As far as the manufacturers its all about making money. Android provides a base for these manufacturers to add components the market might want and that is what makes them money. They can offer high and low end devices and still say hey you can have apps. I don't really care for this, and it is one of the things I like about the iphone and WP7. It still comes down to asthetics, I can do what I want on my android phone and make it look however I want and for the most part without voiding my warranty.
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
scrizz said:
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
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Click to collapse
Finally someone who gets that all he is is an Android hating troll
N8ter said:
It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
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Click to collapse
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
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This is the general forum.
Didn't read the rest.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this were true their wouldn't be a WP7 forum lawl...
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
You've shown disdain towards Android, the Vibrant, and the developer community here in general. Why keep coming back? If you dont agree with the entire reason this forum exists (modding, tweaking and developing) then why not move to a forum with less of that going on? The general forums are filled with enough trash to turn anyone into a cynic, so if I wasnt here for the dev community, I would have been gone a long time ago.
scrizz said:
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
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Click to collapse
+1......................
Hi, I just wondered if all the people who use the software made by complete strangers to root there phones are concerned about the safety of the programs they use.
As most phones being rooted are Android, which I think is based on linux, can it not also install some kind of unwanted code to infect you phones software. I read somewhere that some custom roms contained viruses etc.
I would like to know what you think and learn more about how the software works and if this is actually true, thanks.
Ive flashed every rom here in the last few weeks
Still have my google account and My phone
Also nothing important on my phone - if you run a multinational company? maybe think twice
If someone has hacked me ,i make sure they have hacked the most boring person on the planet.
So i feel completely safe flashing
I cant control or guess at your level of paranoia though - so you will or you wont flash random roms to your phone
Not my paranioa, just read some things about phones that run android and that some custom roms can contain viruses, it was more like they were blaming these roms for all the viruses that infect android phones.
Thanks for your reply.
ricky20 said:
Hi, I just wondered if all the people who use the software made by complete strangers to root there phones are concerned about the safety of the programs they use.
As most phones being rooted are Android, which I think is based on linux, can it not also install some kind of unwanted code to infect you phones software. I read somewhere that some custom roms contained viruses etc.
I would like to know what you think and learn more about how the software works and if this is actually true, thanks.
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Click to collapse
What do u mean by that. This kind of thread is already created. This is not a debatable thing.
There are great developers here who sacrifice their free time and work to bring awesome things to us. And it is up to u whether to trust them or not. I completely trust them. The ones u adressed complete strangers are really great great people here.
And i believe xda and market are completely genuine things. I never worry about that. Even if some non-functional thing is introduced here, it will be removed immediately ASAP. And lastly, it is up to u.
[IMO, android phone without xda and market = nothing]
morbosity said:
If someone has hacked me ,i make sure they have hacked the most boring person on the planet.
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Click to collapse
LOL....
Answering to the OP: you should be much more worried about what manufacturer did to your phone and its software. Manufacturer knows both of these very well and would probably plant something hard to detect, if it were to happen. Of course, the software would have much more power over the device than any virus produced by third party, like being able to brick the device.
As for your concern of lack of trustworthiness - these people are doing the hacks for long time. They are hackers, not crackers. Hackers create and mod, crackers destroy and vandalize. Do not confuse the terms, they mean opposite things. Hackers are the people who power this forum, crackers would get kicked out as soon as detected. No reason for concern. Just stick to open source ROMs and you will be safe.
One more thing if u cant believe developers then i think u must not use any cellphones as blaming developers or hackers here is equal to blaming a manufacturer who have complete control over their device. They can steal your information without informing you and send it to server of their own.
I too 100% trust developers here. It depends on u to trust or not. Android is an open source software or OS. So, u can too build your own ROM and try it. Make sure u've knowledge on this else u'll surely brick ur phone forever. So, the last option is to trust developers here!
I am not referring to any developers on this site and apologize for any offence caused, I am new to this and have just bought my first smart phone. I read an article about viruses being spread on the android market and it continued to explain how this happens but also mentioned that people using custom roms were also at risk.
I feel you've answered my question from your replies, I was always going to try custom roms but HTC's update installed a new locked boot loader. I was just curious what people thought about the methods used to gain root control, I was just trying to learn more about the whole issue. I think the people who do this sort of thing are very clever and intelligent people and admire there dedication and hard work.
Obviously you very passionate about this kind of thing and I agree entirely that manufacturers and carriers can put far worse things on my phone, thanks for your replies.
No one can say what happens when u download something from unknown xyzxyzxyzxyz.com
Only thing I can say is go with the trusted sites, where even if the so called viruses are introduced, they will be removed ASAP. That's all from my side.
Custom ROM viruses are only potentially possible and as far as I know, Cyanogenmod already fixed this. It had something to do with the encryption keys used incorrectly if I remember right.
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Prosis said:
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are you about stock rom not sending any information to non trusted parties?
pijes said:
How sure are you about stock rom not sending any information to non trusted parties?
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Click to collapse
I was expecting that reply especially with the BLU, Huawei and ZTE example and it is absolutely true, we can never be 100% sure.
The difference I see though is that these companies are actually accountable for that sort of thing as is Cyanogen given how big it has grown. If Motorola/Lenovo did such a thing, their brand would suffer and their sales would drop.
But that is not the case for anonymous devs or teams. Plus, it would be hard to hold them accountable (and we'd get the usual and invalid 'they installed it so it's their fault' thing).
You will never be sure, but with all people here using customs roms since several months, with a lot of "power users" / geeks / dev, if there was a big issue regarding security, we should be already aware.
In the other hand i think all these company selling phones are using back doors on their stock roms (especially chinese ones) , sometimes it's the reseller who reflash a rom with malwares ( some resellers on amazon). We know Blu, huawei/honor, Zte, but Lenovo was doing it on their computer ( http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ )
I add that custom roms and custom kernel (especially squid2 if i read release history) are more recently security patched than stock.
fablebreton said:
You will never be sure, but with all people here using customs roms since several months, with a lot of "power users" / geeks / dev, if there was a big issue regarding security, we should be already aware.
In the other hand i think all these company selling phones are using back doors on their stock roms (especially chinese ones) , sometimes it's the reseller who reflash a rom with malwares ( some resellers on amazon). We know Blu, huawei/honor, Zte, but Lenovo was doing it on their computer ( http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ )
I add that custom roms and custom kernel (especially squid2 if i read release history) are more recently security patched than stock.
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Click to collapse
Excellent point (I didn't know that Lenovo did that... Jesus....)
So you would trust custom ROMs over stock?
Prosis said:
Excellent point (I didn't know that Lenovo did that... Jesus....)
So you would trust custom ROMs over stock?
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Click to collapse
Currently yes. The versions and patch level make the point for me. and i havent had any security issue so far.
Prosis said:
I've always trusted the devs on this forum and frankly I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I've always wondered how safe and private custom ROMs actually are? How can we know there's no data leaking or a backdoor like we've seen with BLU, Huawei and ZTE sending info to China? How can we trust these devs with all the personal information on our devices? They could have put anything in the code to do anything with them.
I know that sounds like a paranoïd rant ha ha!
But really, given I'm not a dev myself and that, even if I was, checking the code could be really really long, how can we really know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of roms are prerooted, you can run Network Log on them and see if they connect to dodgy IPs behind your back. Firewalls can also log traffic.
minimale_ldz said:
Most of roms are prerooted, you can run Network Log on them and see if they connect to dodgy IPs behind your back. Firewalls can also log traffic.
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That's a very good point! The same as on Linux distributions.
Can this be done on Cyanogenmod too or I have to root it?
Prosis said:
That's a very good point! The same as on Linux distributions.
Can this be done on Cyanogenmod too or I have to root it?
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Click to collapse
AFAIK CM comes with root as well (you may need to turn it on in Developer's settings).