Related
So in light of the news about the Evo 4G having a frame rate of only 30 fps, which according to everyone on the net is horrible, I decided to download the Fps2D app for testing the X10 myself. And guess what? Only 31 fps.
I've run the test multiple times changing settings etc and tried rebooting as well to get different scores, but it is 31 every time. Perhaps it is being capped at 30 like the Evo as discussed here?? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=699290
Am I the only one who's run this test so far? Why has no one else commented on this "issue" yet or are everyone else' fps test results good? The Evo just came out and yet we've had our X10's for 2 months now! Could this be the reason why the X10 feels so laggy at times?
I'm curious what you all think and what scores your tests show and whether or not any of this is matters. I honestly do not know, just basing my concern on the fact that anyone with an Evo is up in arms right now about it.
X10a
R1FA014
fps: 31
Well, I've noticed that too, I'm currently developing a 3D game and no matter what I put on screen and how complex the thing is I always get around 30fps. On the other hand it seems it can handle a really high number of polys at that framerate
Just for the record on a HTC desire the same app gets from 40 to 50fps...
Also I read that this framerate issue is caused by the high resolution of the screen as the device might be fillrate limited, but I find it strange though.
(Sent from my X10)
i'm using R1FB001 and i also get 31fps.
i think 30fsp is just fine, for anything! movies, games, etc...
it might be even smart, if you run a game that could be run at 50fps using 100% of the cpu, you'll draing your battry faster
instead, you run it at 30fps using less of the cpu hence the battery lasts longer
does that make sense?
I knew before X10 was released that the screen was only about 30hz whilst the desire has around 78hz i think. Still though, the eye can only detect flickering if lower then 24hz aka 24 fps, i watch videos on my X10 and i am just amazed how beutiful it is nice colours even though donut only gives 65k and really crisp and fluid images. Nothing to complain about. To me 30fps is only positive since it consumes alot less battery!
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Are you friggin kidding me?
Neocore 3D test:-
Nexus One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VayQfYTUoNE
26.7 fps
HTC DESIRE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVgnAdgTYY
26.3 fps
XPERIA X10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq1abHyHxRM
28.3 fps
Oh yea. The X10 sux.
What the hell are you doing ?
In Germany it's called "Schwanzvergleich" (mine is bigger and thicker than yours...).
2 Frames less or more is not so important.
With Froyo-Release more and more applications will not run any longer with 1.6 Android. Therefore it is more important to get a actual OS to our Phones.
Does the other Phones running Android 1.6 as you compared them to our X10?
If not, maybe the X10 will be slower if we will got Froyo (or 2.1 or nothing at all).
Best regards
MoS-tekknix
New Benchmark Test Results
se_dude said:
Are you friggin kidding me?
Neocore 3D test:-
Nexus One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VayQfYTUoNE
26.7 fps
HTC DESIRE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVgnAdgTYY
26.3 fps
XPERIA X10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq1abHyHxRM
28.3 fps
Oh yea. The X10 sux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no I'm not kidding you! I only got 31 fps, hard to believe I know!
And all those links useful, but Fps2D is a test for 2D not 3D (hence the name) and that's what my original post was discussing.
There's a lot of information floating around on the net, you all can check it out yourselves. It seems like most other highend Android phones running stock or custom ROMs are getting between 50-65 fps, nearly double the X10. Like I said earlier, I don't know if this all really matters, videos look great on the X10, but flipping through menus and home-screens it gets noticeably laggy for me. I'm merely bringing up all this because of the Evo results and how everyone seems to care about it only pumping out 30 fps yet no one has mentioned anything about the X10.
Some benchmarks on the N1 running Froyo, very impressive to say the least.
http://blog.laptopmag.com/android-2-2-froyo-tested-more-than-twice-as-fast-as-2-1
I've run all three of these tests on my X10, here are my best results. It appears that the X10 is solid at 3D graphics, but falls flat everywhere else. Perhaps all this is only a product of running 1.6 compared to 2.0 or higher??
Linpack: 4.155 <--Just better than Samsung Galaxy! AMAZING
http://www.greenecomputing.com/apps/linpack/linpack-by-device/
Neocore: 29.7 Fps Which is decent! Until...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLUQP7CWyeQ
Benchmark (by Softweg)
Graphics 22.601738
CPU 509.44836
Memory 322.5381
File System 100.747795
From my perspective we cannot (or better should'nt) compare different brands ruunning on different OS!
Nobody will compare his Win98 Benches with outdated Drivers to Win7 and the newest Drivers...
Once Froyo can be installed we can discuss it again.
MoS-tekknix
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Its a cellphone...not a gaming device,31 fps is more then enough .
As a sidenote , X10 mini gets 66fps on average here
I wonder if this whole gpu whatever works only for apps that have code for it or not. I have played a lot of hyper jump on the evo and it pretty much hauled ass. On the epic, it is noticably slower. Could this be because these phones are 2.1 and I am judging it against 2.2?
If I had to guess, that game is largely (or completely) cpu driven. If that's the case, then it would make sense the 2.2 Evo would do better than 2.1 Epic.
NOVA, Dungeon Hunter, all racing games, skies of glory, crusade of destiny, exzues, and toonwarz ALL run noticeably faster on my EPIC than my EVO. It's so smooth it's insane. Some of the above games were pretty choppy on the EVO. But nothing was unplayable except toonwarz...
I haven't tried hyper jump on my EPIC yet. For the most part, everything runs the same except games that push the hardware a little more. Maybe now that we have powerful phones, we'll start seeing more interesting games. Can't push the hardware until you have hardware to push...
herbthehammer said:
I wonder if this whole gpu whatever works only for apps that have code for it or not. I have played a lot of hyper jump on the evo and it pretty much hauled ass. On the epic, it is noticably slower. Could this be because these phones are 2.1 and I am judging it against 2.2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a evo and have a captivate & epic. In benchmarks the sgs's get higher fps but until games get made for the sgs gpu you want really see a deference in playing games.
hydralisk said:
NOVA, Dungeon Hunter, all racing games, skies of glory, crusade of destiny, exzues, and toonwarz ALL run noticeably faster on my EPIC than my EVO. It's so smooth it's insane.
I haven't tried hyper jump on my EPIC yet. For the most part, everything runs the same except games that push the hardware a little more. Maybe now that we have powerful phones, we'll start seeing more interesting games. Can't push the hardware until you have hardware to push...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kool.... where can I get some of these games please!
Im rooted in my Evo. Running all the 3d games and pulling 54 fps. Smooth like butter with no lag.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
touchemupent said:
Im rooted in my Evo. Running all the 3d games and pulling 54 fps. Smooth like butter with no lag.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... how are you recording the FPS you get in these games? Or are you quoting the FPS you get from the app that bounces a 2D ball across your screen.....
Weird. I have a nexus which plays games about the same as the evo and my sgs kickes its but in games. Its like night and day. Look at some YouTube videos where the sgs goes against droidx, evo and n1 and it makes em all look like junk. I never had a evo so I can't say about that other than the YouTube videos ive seen and they look a lot better on the sgs.
I did use the app fps2d. I ran Linpack and got the highest rating on the top rated website. Via the app.(Edub) also ran the games from Polarbit and Gameloft with 2.1 2.2 and rooted. They all lagged a bit but the Bakedsnack Rom i have took care of all that.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I suppose I could dl the stock rooted 2.1 rom for evo and flash it then run the game and see if there's any difference. That way, at least they'd both be running eclair.
My epic is blazing through Final Fantasy VII, no lag.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
touchemupent said:
I did use the app fps2d. I ran Linpack and got the highest rating on the top rated website. Via the app.(Edub) also ran the games from Polarbit and Gameloft with 2.1 2.2 and rooted. They all lagged a bit but the Bakedsnack Rom i have took care of all that.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now, that fps2d, isnt that 2d not 3d? If im not mistaken the 2d are pretty close on all the devices but the 3d is where the SGS whips arse?
I just dont see how the evo can score as high as the sgs on a graphics test unless its only recording the 2d. That test is just a ball bouncing on the screen. I dont think thats a good app to be saying your evo gets 50+ frames per second on graphics test.
edit: ok so I checked out the fps2d and it only scores 2d not 3d. So any games that utilize more 3g like asphalt 5, Nova, Modern combat etc wont be effected by a 2d score of 50+fps. There not the same thing. Your game play on games like pong, and maybe DOODLE jump will be just as good, but that 2d score isnt the same as 3d. This is where the SGS excells. It kicks the crap out of the EVO on 3g benchmarks.
Just wanted to clear that up for people thinking that your scoring 50+ fps on 3d games like you quoted on a EVO. Thats not true. Your scoring 50+fps on 2d games.....
Heres a test. Download Speed forge from the market. I believe there is a lite version. In that game there is a FPS option. While your playing the game its detecting your FPS, I just dont see the evo being at 57 fps on 3d like the sgs. SO, grab that game, run it on the EVO and whats your real 3d FPS?
smashpunks said:
Now, that fps2d, isnt that 2d not 3d? If im not
I just dont see how the evo can score as high as the sgs on a graphics test unless its only recording the 2d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can't. The EVO is one of the worst "high end" phones when it comes to 3d benchmarks. Almost always slower than the nexus one.
smashpunks said:
edit: Im almost garunteed that your EVO does not get 50+ frames per second on a 3d benchmark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't. This guy is very confused. Linpack doesn't really equate to real world performance either. With Froyo and CM6 or whatever other rom you're using... your EVO will never be as fast as the Epic.
Try running nenamark1, GL benchmark 2.0, and neocore. Let us know what you get there..... and we'll let you know how much our Epic destroys you.
hydralisk said:
It can't. The EVO is one of the worst "high end" phones when it comes to 3d benchmarks. Almost always slower than the nexus one.
It doesn't. This guy is very confused. Linpack doesn't really equate to real world performance either. With Froyo and CM6 or whatever other rom you're using... your EVO will never be as fast as the Epic.
Try running nenamark1, GL benchmark 2.0, and neocore. Let us know what you get there..... and we'll let you know how much our Epic destroys you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly...... DESTROYYYYYS. My buddy benchmarked his evo with those. If I remember correctly he got. 12.5 fps on neno mark1 I got 44 fps on my vibrant, and on Neocore he got I believe 26fps and I scored 55.7 and I dont remember the GL score but I destroyed that as well.
I will download and post results today. One question though. Why does the Evo run all the games now with my current Rom with absolutely no lag and wouldnt run correctly with ota? All my apps work even 4g, cameras no force closes. The games seem to perform better with the rom vs the graphics card not taking anything from the Epic.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
touchemupent said:
I will download and post results today. One question though. Why does the Evo run all the games now with my current Rom with absolutely no lag and wouldnt run correctly with ota? All my apps work even 4g, cameras no force closes. The games seem to perform better with the rom vs the graphics card not taking anything from the Epic.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a nexus with easily the same game quality as the evo. I never thought games lagged either and its not really that they lag but after you experience it on a device with 3 times the graphical power and lime twice the framerate you can totally see the difference compared to the sgs.
Watch the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=cl4p5JI0-gQ the sgs clearly beats the evo in the asphalt at the end of the video. Its not that the evo is bad, its just not like the sgs.
benchmark a time demo of quake 3 on a snapdragon and hummingbird, we'll see which one shutters and gets brought down to it's knees.
The EVO will not go past 30 fps in 3d. So yes the Galaxy S series phone an edge there. I particularly don't game on my phone, so no loss for me. One thing I do is use my phone outdoors and my EVO is more visible in bright light than my wife's Epic.
So depending on what each user deems important either device can shine over the other
^
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
captblaze said:
The EVO will not go past 30 fps in 3d. So yes the Galaxy S series phone an edge there. I particularly don't game on my phone, so no loss for me. One thing I do is use my phone outdoors and my EVO is more visible in bright light than my wife's Epic.
So depending on what each user deems important either device can shine over the other
^
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. More like on certain things (benchmarks) i wont hit 30fps at all..but the S will..
coming from a samsung galaxy s capable of 60fps , i bought a dell streak for a gaming device because of the screen size, to find put its only capable of 30fps???
every game i pop in there plays very jittery , angry birds for example, when u launch the bird its very very jittery and blurry when the bird flys and actually gives me eye strain and a headache, so before i bring back my att dell streak is froyo 2.2 guaranteed to lift the 30fps plague??
most likely not. from the looks of the ****ty roms from dell, its not promising at all. if you're looking for performance, might as well buy a desire hd or something. htc has much more experience in making android.
damn sucks , welp gunna get a refund from.dell now , thanks for the reply
And BTW Don't forget that the Galaxy S haves 3 times faster GPU than the Streak!
there's phones with way less power then the streak thats able to do 60 fps,
at 30fps the screen really bothers my eye while scrolling, the problem is the phone is CAPPED at 30fps , im just confused on why dell would choose that root knowing this is there first phone, usually first impressions are a must
Probably because of the HDMI out option in the phone.
Shame on Dell, this phone sounded like a dream a year ago.
They released too late.
The hardware is rather old now.
30fps cap
Proprietary connector
android 1.6
Phone was DOA per the above.
how much bull can there be in a thread?
the 30fps cap is down to the hdmi, some of us are looking at removing it.
the galaxy s doesn't have a 3x faster gpu. it has a seperate one, yet I can beat the quadrant scores with what you seem to think is the oh so **** streak.
angry birds really doesn't look jittery here, at any point.
The streak doesn't have a proprietory connector, it uses pdmi, it would be good if dell had told us, and even better if other manufacturers used it as well, so we could get cheaper accessories!
the hardware is the same as HTC are currently releasing, obviously out of date.
Fards, I love you for defending the Streak! Hey, this is my 2-week old baby
Surely it can't be out of date already!
Angry birds looks amazing and wife can't wait for the publication of the full game.
An old ipod 2g plays angry birds like butter, if u think the dell streak plays angry birds with smooth graphics you must have bad eyes, oh and dont bother selecting smooth scrolling in mozilla because its fine the way it is loooooool ,
horses for courses.
one of the main reasons I ditched my Galaxy S was because of the laughably tragic GPS implementation (it looks as though Samsung may be the un-named party in SkyHook vs Google which may explain a few things ...)
the lag issue on the SGS makes it a joke too, "yeah mum all you need to do is flash a rooted ROM using Odin and apply a lagfix - but then don't update to Froyo without wiping and re-partitioning the phone first" - um, no
I'm keeping my SGS around for as long as possible, in case CyanogenMod is released this lifetime ....
30fps is actually as fast as TV and faster than film, yet no one except Jim Cameron complains (and he wants 48fps).
high fps is only part of the story for smooth motion, also cartoons are 12fps but nobody mentions that either, ever. it could be the Streak is stuttering below 30fps, I'm sure a constant 30fps would be perfectly acceptable.
so I don't really see what a big deal a 30fps cap is, but then I prefer Starquake and Dynamite Dan over COD and Halo.
30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell
Its a fact. Cinema is 24fps. many bluerays fix the refresh to 24fps to match the speed of cell cameras. It looks great. And anyone who bought a 200hz tv is an idiot. It will not improve motion it is just a resample and any resampling will degrade quality. So with that out the way ill end by saying 30fps is more than adequate. My girlfriend has the sgs and while its a great phone the streaak is a better device on so many levels
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
cowballz69 said:
30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for not coming back
cowballz69 said:
30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand why you feel so dumb while there are much smarter people on this forum...
angry bird on android runs at higher resolution than on iPhone. it might look good on 3GS or older model, but not on iPhone 4 with its high resolution screen.
so it's not a surprise to see an old iPod touch to play angry bird smoothly..
i wonder how it gonna handle angry bird with high reso like the one we have on android!
so pleased I won't have to explain frames vs fields, progressive vs interlaced, whew!
maybe u should?
miker71 said:
so pleased I won't have to explain frames vs fields, progressive vs interlaced, whew!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a general rule just ignore anyhing that isnt progressive. In this day and age theres no excuse for interlaced
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
here's a good starting point
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
more fps may indeed be more "real" however i think the key is a consistent framerate without stuttering.
we are asking our phones to do more and more and do it well - i'm more than happy with what the dell streak offers today despite perhaps a weaker GPU (wait - phones have a GPU!!!! honestly, seeing this tech evolve over the years shows an amazing journey and some very clever engineering no matter where your brand allegiances may lay)
what i find ironic is that ARM + PowerVR are mobile darlings that were written off in the nineties as the Windows juggernaut became unstoppable.
(remember PowerVR losing to Voodoo 3Dfx ... who has the last laugh!!)
cowballz69 said:
every game i pop in there plays very jittery , angry birds for example, when u launch the bird its very very jittery and blurry when the bird flys and actually gives me eye strain and a headache, so before i bring back my att dell streak is froyo 2.2 guaranteed to lift the 30fps plague??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If its jittery it's not running at 30fps is it? Angry Birds is beta anyway...
I don't think you actually understand...
I tried to benchmark my sony ericsson xperia x10 with FPS2D...
It seems that it limits the speed to 30FPS MAX... it tries to go higher but it keeps getting blocked at 30fps wtf is wrong>?
They locked it down to 32fps ... Nothing can be done until we can cook custom ROMS or SE decide to unlock the cap. Its just like EVO 4G.
I wonder why they felt they had to limit it? I noticed when doing the GLBenchmark1.1 test that it maxed out at 32fps. The N8 is hitting 60fps, why dont SE just allow it to go above 32fps?
Does anyone know why HTC limited the Evo 4G? Could explain why SE did it to.
POLO_i780 said:
I wonder why they felt they had to limit it? I noticed when doing the GLBenchmark1.1 test that it maxed out at 32fps. The N8 is hitting 60fps, why dont SE just allow it to go above 32fps?
Does anyone know why HTC limited the Evo 4G? Could explain why SE did it to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC removed the 30 fps cap in one of the latest updates, afaik.
Does anyone know if this limit on X10 will be broken with 2.1?
otherwise I'll think I might buy another phone
tuxo87 said:
HTC removed the 30 fps cap in one of the latest updates, afaik.
Does anyone know if this limit on X10 will be broken with 2.1?
otherwise I'll think I might buy another phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? What difference does it make?
The telephone is much smoother @60fps. dunno if it affects touchscreen responsiveness too (or the way you feel it )
its hard to explain, but if you manage to try an iphone 4 you'll surely notice the difference.
You know, until this thread, I doubt anyone on here even knew/cared about the FPS.
It's nice to see that the Android fanboys haven't disappointed me with their endless pursuit of meaningless higher numbers.
iead1 said:
You know, until this thread, I doubt anyone on here even knew/cared about the FPS.
It's nice to see that the Android fanboys haven't disappointed me with their endless pursuit of meaningless higher numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm... can you explain to me what is meaningless about it? is having more horsepower in a car meaningless? is having a larger house meaningless? is having more money meaningless?
yeah i bet you answered no to all those questions, if not then somethings wrong with you.
these numbers that are limited to something less than what the hardware is capable of is stupid. the pursuit of higher performance on a device that is MORE than capable of it (due to the lack of software to support it atm), is something very viable...
as for the android fanboy comment... thats just stupid lol
Did you honestly notice any performance issues before this thread?
If your eye can really tell the difference between 60 and 30 fps, I applaud you.
My point isn't the fact that it's actually locked (I don't care either way), I just find it funny that as soon as an Android fanboy finds out their numbers are lower than someone else's, they freak out.
Its possible that they decided to cap it after finding stability issues at higher frame rates... even then, how does it actually affect anything? I mean, do videos become visibly smoother at higher frame rates? (I honestly don't know, so I'm asking)
And wrt the android fanboy comment - If you don't find android fanboys at xda, where else would you find them
actually i kinda care, coz one of my games, hyper jump i think has a refresh line split straight down the middle and i can't see scrap my when... etc. etc.
but yea i like things to look smooth, what's the fps on the iphone coz it looks so slick
pngface said:
Its possible that they decided to cap it after finding stability issues at higher frame rates... even then, how does it actually affect anything? I mean, do videos become visibly smoother at higher frame rates? (I honestly don't know, so I'm asking)
And wrt the android fanboy comment - If you don't find android fanboys at xda, where else would you find them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't affect videos, because the video would have had to be made at the higher FPS to actually benefit. FPS only benefits games, and the goal is always 30 FPS. Higher is nice, but not needed for most games. I would be surprised if iPhone games ran higher.
Maybe I should've wrote "X10 Fanboys" ahaha. Always wanting that 2.2, 16,000,000, 3.0, 512, ect.
pngface said:
Its possible that they decided to cap it after finding stability issues at higher frame rates... even then, how does it actually affect anything? I mean, do videos become visibly smoother at higher frame rates? (I honestly don't know, so I'm asking)
And wrt the android fanboy comment - If you don't find android fanboys at xda, where else would you find them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno about videos but the android interface would be sensibly smoother. it's like playing a 3d game. is it more playable at 60 or 30 fps?
I seriosly thinks that the FPS cap limits the touchscreen responsiveness too.
tuxo87 said:
Dunno about videos but the android interface would be sensibly smoother. it's like playing a 3d game. is it more playable at 60 or 30 fps?
I seriosly thinks that the FPS cap limits the touchscreen responsiveness too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
60fps is better only if it doesn't fall from 60 to 20 fps which i think will happen just too often thanks to Adreno 200(while playing 3D games at least)
When playing Asphalt ive noticed skipping/jerking of frames, and im betting thats due to the cap. The Andreno200 seems to be capable of upto 45fps, thats what the Desire is reflecting in the benchmark tests, im sure the extra 13fps will make a significant difference when gaming, i love playing games on my X10's gorgeous 4" display, the phone is so great to hold and play games on, but it sucks when you run into jerkyness here and there due to a dam limit, when the hardware is far more capable.
Um, locking the frame rate results in smoother graphics, not jerky ones.
If you're experiencing jerkiness, then the frame rate never reached the limit when you were using the software. The whole point of locking the frame rate is so things appear smooth at all times.
iead1 said:
It doesn't affect videos, because the video would have had to be made at the higher FPS to actually benefit. FPS only benefits games, and the goal is always 30 FPS. Higher is nice, but not needed for most games. I would be surprised if iPhone games ran higher.
Maybe I should've wrote "X10 Fanboys" ahaha. Always wanting that 2.2, 16,000,000, 3.0, 512, ect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Part of the desire comes from other Android handsets already having these features eons ago. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best performance from your phone.
I bought mine because it had the best specs at the time and I was assured that updates would soon follow, not minor updates but major ones.
It seems in all your posts you do nothing but defend the X10 and shoot down everyone who isn't 100% satisfied like you are. I admit that I've been negative in the past but I've forked out more than half a grand for a damn phone, and yes, I did do the research. I thought SE would have killed the Android market with the way they fluffed up their phone and boasted in all their marketing pieces.
why don't you think it the other way around, maybe SE has limited the FPS to save you from a crashing OS, it's a common knowledge that X10 is one of the highest specs phones in the market till today, and it's a common knowledge also that SE has modified the Android 1.6 too much to be able to work on that specs, and in their process to do so they admittedly limited the functionality of the phone maybe to keep the OS working smooth without any flaws till they issue the long delayed Android 2.1 update.
Its a common fallacy, people assume that bigger numbers mean better. That is only true if there is a noticeable difference...
A bigger house is of no use to you if all the extra rooms are locked.
... and there is no extra "cost" or detrimental effect...
A bigger house is great, if it doesn't mean it suddenly costs you more than you can afford.
To address those points, it is generally accepted that the human eye cannot resolve movement at much higher framerates than 28-32 FPS. Any film you have seen at the cinema, and any TV you have watched has been at 24FPS and that certainly has never seemed jerky to me.
So is 60 FPS better? Well no not really, as you cant see the difference. And whilst you may be able to argue you can see the difference between 25 and 35FPS (Note 30FPS sits in the middle ) If you make the claim you can differentiate all the way up to 60, im going to need serious proof.
Its worth noting at this point that a lot of hoohah is often made about framerates, especially in 3d gaming. This is NOT because of the user experience, its because its a good way to compare hardware performance. Past a certain point (around 30fps) it makes little to no difference to the user experience.
Now onto the second part of my awesome house analogy, why bother locking it anyway? Because to produce MORE than 30 FPS, i.e. to go beyond the boundry at which the user can tell a difference, requires more power.
More power means poorer battery performance, amongst other things (although in mobile device design power consumption is a chief concern). The key point here being that it requires extra juice but delivers no increase in user experience. Essentially just chucking power out of the window, to nobodies benefit.
Finally, those people experiencing "lags" in games, that's not due to frame capping. That happens when the frame rate drops BELOW the cap (considerably below) therefore the cap has had no effect.
Finally, a disclaimer, im not blindly defending SE here, i think their software and post sales support leaves a LOT to be desired, but lets ***** and flame about something that deserves it:
Books are for people too poor to buy a TV. Discuss.
bongd said:
Part of the desire comes from other Android handsets already having these features eons ago. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best performance from your phone.
I bought mine because it had the best specs at the time and I was assured that updates would soon follow, not minor updates but major ones.
It seems in all your posts you do nothing but defend the X10 and shoot down everyone who isn't 100% satisfied like you are. I admit that I've been negative in the past but I've forked out more than half a grand for a damn phone, and yes, I did do the research. I thought SE would have killed the Android market with the way they fluffed up their phone and boasted in all their marketing pieces.
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More like I hate stupidity, and most of my posts are defending intelligence. I'm convinced that 75% of this board are high school students living with their parents in their basements, buying phone's with daddy's credit card.
Anyway, the poster above me explained it perfectly.
I have all 3 phones. I have tried running divx, mp4 and mkv through all of them. The resolutions vary between dvd up to 720p hdtv quality. I am sad to say that, this is just my unscientific opinion, the evo shift stock is not more powerful than the other two in real world testing. I've tested operating all three in stock rom form and the shift isn't the badass.
If you want to recreate these tests for yourself to see or prove me wrong then go ahead. Go find a 720p mkv tv show off torrents or something and try running them on these phones.
Each phone has it's strong points and weaknesses. It just depends on what are you wanting the phone to do and what is more important than another thing. In general games, the epic seems to have the higher and smoother frame rates. It does have the largest keyboard area of between the two. I found that with my big fingers, I was bumping keys next to the one I was trying to hit many more times than I do on the Shift. The Epic's drawer mechanism is pretty darn loose. The Epic in video recording had closer to the actual colors and less artifacting caused by too high compression when compared to the Evo. I have yet to test video on the Shift much. I cannot record at the highest video resolution with the Epic without an error message coming up. The video is always corrupted when it crashes. If I do short recording sessions of just a few seconds, the epic looks better to me than the Evo. The Evo compresses too much and it shows in playback. The Evo will continue to record and not crash though when it is in highest resolution. Epic's high quality audio recording really sucks. It skips and studders. Both Evos sound great without any complaints. The screen on the Epic looks nicer and has richer looking colors than both Evos. Black is really black on the Epic. The colors might be richer but they exaggerate the saturation when comparing to whatever it is you are filming in real life.
The Epic seems to have more sensitive radios than the Evo but not the Shift, it hears just a little bit better than the Epic. I don't know who wins for battery life but I do know the Evo is in last place for runtime on a single charge.
Running the operating system on all three, the Evo seems quickest, Epic second, and the Shift in third. I'm talking about noticing hiccups, studders, temporary lockups and delayed reactions to screen touches. The Evo is very sensitive to the touch, the Shift second and Epic last. I found too many times I was talking back to the Epic, telling it to hurry up or come on!
The Epic takes a long time to charge and I haven't seen it be able to charge and use the device at the same time and actually increase battery capacity. I have seen both the Evos be able to charge and run at the same time.
Another thing I tried was pinch zooming in and out with the stock browser and see how smooth and fast it was. The Evo was definitely quick, followed closely by the Epic and Shift in last place with quick yet jerky zooming.
In closing, to be fair, the Evo has had the most official updates since first release. The epic has had a few updates too. The Shift is less than a week old. Evos are running 2.2 and Epic 2.1 so take some of that under consideration for speed too. I might be wrong but I would speculate that the Epic would be even faster when/if it finally goes to froyo. How would that stack up with the Evo? I don't know. It all comes down to what do you want in order of importance? For physical keyboards, I'm making less mistakes by hitting nearby keys with the Shift than the Epic.
Do any of you have two or all three of these phones? What are your observations? I'm not saying that these things I've said are facts per se, just my personal observations and impressions after using them. You mileage will most likely vary.
Well here is my take.
First: I do not have any of the above phones but I will be getting on soon.
I went into a Sprint store last night to get the shift, walked out not getting anything yet. Here is why.
To me currently its between 2 EVOs as I do not trust Samsung to fix or update anything, even if they roll out 2.2 or even 2.3 (skipping 2.2 as a Sprint employee suggested that Samsung is doing - I don't trust that but... whatever I have an Instinct and they dropped a ball on that with bugs glaring issues still in it).
So between the 2 EVOs here is what I see , any input would be welcomed.
Shift has better battery life, keyboard, smaller foot print, seems it should be faster at playing movies.
EVO thinner, larger screen.
So for me the keyboard is not a huge selling feature, I like it, but can easily live without it. Then there was an employee at the Sprint store with EVO and Extended battery. From all I've read/heard the extended battery on EVO should last at least as long as the stock on Shift. When I put both phones on the table the EVO was a smidgen thiker (with the extended battery) then the Shift.
So the way I see it the battery issue, is a non issue, between EVO and Shift so whats left is screen and keyboard.
I guess I will be selecting screen size, as bigger browser is a better experience, the way I see it.
From the above I am not sure I understand what is smoother playing videos (from the memory card) ?
Also is there any EVO issues (like connector problems, screen peeling ...) that I should put into my decision. Seems like where there but now are minimal if any.
I had an epic from launch which I traded for an evo two days ago and I bought my wife a shift on tuesday. While I may not have the epic right here to test I can assure you that I've run it through it's paces quite often.
First and foremost there is one glaring flaw in your testing and that is that the epic is running eclair which lacks the JIT speed enhancements and there fore its at a disadvantage. Second you even with that I have seen first hand how much more graphics processing power the epic has than the shift or even the evo.
As I started in your other thread about this, the shift has a second gen snap dragon whereas the evo has the first. Its a more powerful chip that has been underclocked exactly like it was in the desire z which has a stable overclock kernel running at 1.9ghz. The evo tops out at 1.2 and the epic overclocking was not "true" so its hard to judge that.
On to charging: my epic would charge to full from around 20% in about 4 hours while on and about 2 while off. I have not been able to thoroughly test the shift or the evo yet however I can say that I used to charge and use my epic all the time and it still charged very quickly.
Oh also for battery tests you have to keep in mind that while an lcd takes the same amount of power to display all colors a SAMOLED does not. Black requires no power and knowing that using dark themes as well as other tweaks I generally got about 28 hours per charge on the epic.
To sum up, I don't know a lot about .mkv files but I do know a lot about these three phones and here is what I know: the epic will always out perform the others on graphical tests. The evo and the epic will be close on productivity tests however the shift will be over clocked and will destroy the other two in productivity.
Edit sorry forgot to mention updates! The evo has received many major updates and tweaks that have made it a better device. The epic has received two and neither had fixed anything. One of them did make it so you could give samsung more money.
Sent from my cm7 Evo 4G!
I have the Epic and the Shift and I really believe the Shift runs better than the Epic in the real world enviornment. I havnt tested 720 mkv's though. Are you using the same SD card on each device when testing?
I find the Shift most def faster than the og evo in every aspect. I havn't had one lag, hickup or anything what-so-ever.
My browser doesnt have any lag at all when I pinch zoom in and out multiple times as fast as I can. Are you sure there isnt something running in the backround hendering your performace on your Shift? I truely believe when we overclock this thing its gonna smash on both phones minus the graphics of the Epic.
Considering I've messed with the EVO a ton and my friends with og EVO's say my phone is def faster in all aspects we could test at the time. I'm thinking maybe your device isnt running up to par for some reason...Or maybe I got a lucky device because my phone has been flawless (except for the signal drop when holding the base of the phone) for me and even lasted over 48 hours on 1 charge with light use.
Someone was mentioning speed improvements with jit. There's all kinds of ways to boost speed, the way I tested was stock rooted with official up to date roms.
I have just copied two shows that were converted from 1280x720 3700kbps video bitrate mkv. The video bitrate on both after re-encoding was 2000. One video I left the same 1280x720 and the other I converted down to the screen resolution of the phone 800x448. I am surprised that BOTH are 657.8mb regardless of resolution. My common sense is telling me this should not be. It's telling me the 1280 video should be larger in mb than the 800. I don't understand what the deal is but I'm not going to focus on that. I did this whole conversion with handbrake, bringing the audio down to 2 channel stereo, 48khz, 160kbps audio. I will play these and report back on what I find. I'm guessing the Shift and others won't have any problems since I backed the video bitrate way down. Playback on the computer, I'm surprised I can't tell the difference at fullscreen from the original....
I mentioned the jit improvements because only the epic doesn't have it. I'm not sure why there being "a ways to boost speed" negates the fact that any device running 2.2 or higher will have these speed boosts, which both the Evo and the Evo shift do but the Epic does not. You are effectively testing win xp against win7. Its just a bad test.
Further, its mostly moot because if you want your device to perform better you can (or will be able to in the case of the Shift) install custom roms that will outperform a stock phone any day.
Sent from my cm7 Evo 4G!
EDIT
Now that I'm on my computer and can do a little research I looked up the .mkv format. To be honest, its a rather old standard and that could be the issue you're having. As I stated previously in the other thread, I test a 1080p .avi episode of 30 Rock and noticed no hiccups or stuttering at all on either my (very non-stock) Evo and my wife's Shift. It ran perfectly. Since you are using Handbrake, I'm not sure why you're using mkv as opposed to avi as in my experience avi's tend to run a whole hell of a lot smoother than most other video formats and it is works on pretty much all video players.
There is one other very real possibility that has not been discussed: When the Evo first came out and for a long time it was locked at 30 frames per second for playback of any kind and the same kind of lock could be on the Evo Shift. However, given my personal results of being able to play 1080p video flawlessly, I very much doubt that this is the case.
Avi file extension is pretty old but that alone doesn't really tell you what codec is being used. I think avi might be a microsoft creation too. There are quite a few codecs dating back well over a decade or more which use the avi extension. Divx, xvid, and indeo are a few that I can remember off the top of my head. Mkv, some mp4, and m4v are mpeg 4 avc. Mkv is one of the codecs used in blu ray, so its not that old.
I am interested in what codec, audio channels with bitrate and video codec with bitrate, what bit color, etc. That might shed some light on what might be happening and why playback is the way it is.
I tried almost a dozen video players from the market that had between 4 to 5 stars and an old version of demo player. Some played very slow. Vital player and demo/divx had very slow playback for video. I think rockplayer demo was the only one I saw that had a choice between hardware or software decoding. Either one seemed to have the same results.
The video that was 800 resolution, with the mp4 avc reencode, played with higher framerate and pretty much syncd audio. There was a noticed studdering and not butter smooth of video. I haven't figured out the cause of that yet. The 1280x720 reencode played better than the master but the video skipped and studdered even worse. Some players handled av better than others but weren't perfect.
I am starting to think that it boils down to what do I want to do the most with my phone? Play games, watch videos, record audio and or video, text and email a lot, etc. I'm loosing interest in being an intense gamer. If I want to watch videos, why watch movies and shows on a tiny phone screen when I can use my laptop? I might do some video or audio recording. Granted this isn't a real camera or camcorder, but it will work in a pinch. I'm not really complaining about the phone. It will do what it was designed to do.
As I said before, these are just my observations and results after playing around with them. They aren't scientific. Some can say its flawed but actually I don't really care about that. I did these tests for myself and am sharing what I found out.
Maybe if I have some time, I will make a youtube video showing all this stuff happening. I wonder if I might have got a lemon phone... I should go by the sprint store and play with the display and see if it acts the same.
I've owned all three for extended periods of time and have rooted the Evo and Epic and tweaked the crap outta them both. The Epic is a complete POS period. Doesn't even deserve to be in the same conversation. Their GPU #s mean absolutely ZERO to me because if you place a piece of **** in a tuxedo, it's still a POS. The Evo was a great phone but did have a lot of lag ESPECIALLY in the browser (scroll, pinch to zoom, etc) Battery life was just plain humerous and the screen resolution was just so bad that everything looked like it was washed through bleach before making it to the display. The Evo Shift is the fastest of the 3 BY FAR! It has no lag thus far, incredible reaction times, excellent scrolling, amazing battery life, and a clearer display than the EVO. I can honestly say that I own the best phone Sprint has to offer and I can't wait to get some seriously crazy Kernals on this thing and OC the crap out of it.
Please Note: I hate qwerty keyboards and have never used it. I'm not thrilled about the screen size of the Shift but will GLADLY tolerate a smaller screen for the crazy fast processor and unbelievable battery life. Not to mention I feel like the build quality is much nicer than both the Epic (piece of plastic Shyte) or the Evo (Nice but just no contrast on the body...all looks like black plastic) The brushed metal frame with the lazer etched polished rim on the front of the Evo shift is just beautiful. The back has a very nice look and feel but I would have preferred a metal backside like the G2 to complete the theme setup by the front of the phone.
Can anyone with the EVO and Shift compare how they play games like pocket legends or dungeon defenders?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
etbrandt2 said:
Can anyone with the EVO and Shift compare how they play games like pocket legends or dungeon defenders?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
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It's really hard to tell honestly. Very little difference if any. The Shift's GPUs are slightly better than the Evo but it's a little hard to tell. I played on my Shift and my sister's Evo...I call it a draw, maybe a slight edge in smoothness to the Shift but hardly noticeable.
You should odin the epic to dk28 aka froyo and then do these tests
There's too many inconsistents in your experimenting
But yeah once the shift gets Oc'd like the g2, then its good.
The epic can only oc to 1.2, 1.3 stable and 1.6 max from the last time I bothered with eclair a few months ago lol
There hasn't been any oc for the leaked froyo
Also, the keyboard on the epic looks nice, but misses keys. Everything I type from here on out wont b edited so you can see lol
The TP2 kb was the best. Idk why htc went with the g2 kb and left the tp2 in history :/
I think this test should be between the shift and g2 considering sprints phones are different beasts for different people lol
If samsung were to be on par with htc on software updates, I honestly don't think either of those phones would stand a chance against the epic
Also, 720p .mkv play great on the epic...even subtitles! But I believe its because samsung is usingthe codecs from rockplayer in the market for the galaxy s video player lol so I don't think that's a fair comparison since its basically atird party app
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
The epic can only oc to 1.2, 1.3 stable and 1.6 max from the last time I bothered with eclair a few months ago lol
There hasn't been any oc for the leaked froyo
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The 1.6 was a fake. Was not truly 1.6ghz and that was brought up in the thread about the shift in the epic forums...
Sent from my Detoxed CM6.1.2 Evo 4G!
My brother has an epic 4g and I have a shift 4g. From what I've noticed the only thing better about his phone is the way that the screen looks and the screen size. I tried loading up a blu-ray rip of avatar and I don't notice any artifacts, lag, or anything different between the two. The epic is faster in anything to do with gpu? Then why is it losing in benchmarks?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
I went to Radio Shack a few days ago to handle the Epic, Evo and the Shift. I ultimately decided on the Shift and here's why:
The Epic and Evo are just too big. I have fairly large hands (can palm a basketball) but I just couldn't stand the thought of something that large in my pocket; I prefer mobility.
The Evo doesn't have a keyboard, so it was automatically ruled out based on that one trait alone. The Epic has an additional row of buttons for the number keys, which I liked, but isn't necessary. The Epic's "drawer" (I saw someone call it that in this thread already), or the mechanism that allows the keyboard to slide out, felt cheap and loose.
Making the decision of buying the Shift was based on the keyboard, the smaller footprint, the better performing CPU and the price ($150 from RS on 2 year contract).
Ok, so I am digging this one out from over half a year ago, and I just wanted to see what people thought of the Shift vs Epic now that both have 2.3 and custom roms as I have a Shift at the moment but I can take it back and get the Epic for free. I was wondering as to which one performs better/smoother does better at call quality? I like the bigger screen and the number row on the keyboard.
The only thing I am going to say here is get the EVO Shift 4G if you are deciding between these three phones.
You ask why?
Simple
They are going to stop selling the EVO and the Epic come october that means no more updates or software support (except on XDA)
Thats just my 2 cents lol
Yea I got the Shift and not the Evo because of that (well and the actualy keyboard) but saw this week the epic went on sale for free and I know it has a biger and nicer screen and in many bench marks outclasses the shift. Though Is like to see how the shift compares when running asop and oc kernal, because correct me if I am wrong but the second gen snapdragon should out perform a first gen hummingbird that's in the epic?
saiyandide said:
Yea I got the Shift and not the Evo because of that (well and the actualy keyboard) but saw this week the epic went on sale for free and I know it has a biger and nicer screen and in many bench marks outclasses the shift. Though Is like to see how the shift compares when running asop and oc kernal, because correct me if I am wrong but the second gen snapdragon should out perform a first gen hummingbird that's in the epic?
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Not really. yea the second gen snapdragon with adreno 205 does really help close the distance between the two chipsets but a hummingbird still will outperform the Snapdragon in the graphics department.
The Epic is a MUCH better phone all around.
Clearer and larger Screen, front facing camera, snappier. All that.
Only downfall is the battery life is going to make you regret getting it.
So, second choice is the Shift. I suggest you get that if you want a phone you can use all day.