Database Users

my thoughts on blackstone....

i've been using this phone for approximately 6 months now, and now i feel rather disappointing to it ((
the phone is expensive, and it seems that it's equiped with good hardware specs, but its performance is just sucks imo.
these are the things that disappointing me....
1, there is siginificant lag with regard to its screen responsiveness (and almost everything)
2, its camera function is quite hard to use, it takes about 3-4 sec to get a shot, and the picture is easily turns out to be blur if the phone/focal slightly moved/not in steady condition by the end of the shot.
3, the phone is also very easily to get overheated.
4, games for wvga version are really few as well as software; the only emulator works good for this phone is morphgear, but its fps is too low while playing gba and snes games and that is when sounds turned off... on the other hand, due to the fact that wm 6.x does not support multitouch, so there is really no point to use such emulators, cos even rpgs requires multitouch.
in additonal, I still remember that my original 8 gb sd card died after 2 weeks since i bought it, and the customer adviser told me that i have to wait for monthes in order to get my replacement which was really pissed me off.
actually, I have considered iphone as an alternative before i bought this phone, but at the time, it seems everyone owns an iphone and I want something different, so I finnally bought blackstone.
i'm not some crazy iphone fan but blackstone has been easily beated after I compared my phone with my friend's iphone; games on iphone look great and they have tons of 3rd party software and games, its gba emulator which is called gpsphone runs pokemon between 150fps- and 225 in full speed and when sounds turned on and etc....
I know there are certainly something good about blackstone(maybe wm device), but for the price, i think i will only rate blackstone 6 out 10.
whatever, I feel grateful to these chefs who cook ROMs for us, my phone has already improved a lots because of them, and I really appreciate that!!
but for me, I think I won't buy htc's phone anymore.....

lynne02191 said:
i've been using this phone for approximately 6 months now, and now i feel rather disappointing to it ((
the phone is expensive, and it seems that it's equiped with good hardware specs, but its performance is just sucks imo.
these are the things that disappointing me....
1, there is siginificant lag with regard to its screen responsiveness (and almost everything)
2, its camera function is quite hard to use, it takes about 3-4 sec to get a shot, and the picture is easily turns out to be blur if the phone/focal slightly moved/not in steady condition by the end of the shot.
3, the phone is also very easily to get overheated.
4, games for wvga version are really few as well as software; the only emulator works good for this phone is morphgear, but its fps is too low while playing gba and snes games and that is when sounds turned off... on the other hand, due to the fact that wm 6.x does not support multitouch, so there is really no point to use such emulators, cos even rpgs requires multitouch.
in additonal, I still remember that my original 8 gb sd card died after 2 weeks since i bought it, and the customer adviser told me that i have to wait for monthes in order to get my replacement which was really pissed me off.
actually, I have considered iphone as an alternative before i bought this phone, but at the time, it seems everyone owns an iphone and I want something different, so I finnally bought blackstone.
i'm not some crazy iphone fan but blackstone has been easily beated after I compared my phone with my friend's iphone; games on iphone look great and they have tons of 3rd party software and games, its gba emulator which is called gpsphone runs pokemon between 150fps- and 225 in full speed and when sounds turned on and etc....
I know there are certainly something good about blackstone(maybe wm device), but for the price, i think i will only rate blackstone 6 out 10.
whatever, I feel grateful to these chefs who cook ROMs for us, my phone has already improved a lots because of them, and I really appreciate that!!
but for me, I think I won't buy htc's phone anymore.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why dont you try android there is alot of stuff for it

TC,
Based on what you're telling me (with gaming being a strong criterion), I strongly suggest you just get an iPhone or wait for the GSM-Pre which should be coming in about a month or two (assuming a next-week announcement).
I've been using the TouchHD for a while, and I can agree that the phone gets warm, but by no means hot, so how hot are we talking about here (I understand that the perception of heat is indeed a subjective one)?
And what exactly do you mean by "significant" lag on screen responsiveness? I honestly have not experienced that. Have you installed programs to the brim on your phone on the device memory? Do you actually close your applications? (If you have too many programs running, it'll turn into a tortoise). For the first week, my roommate had no idea that the X-button was not close, but a mere minimize on his Toshiba. He had a constant 10 ~ 11 applications running in the background!
Cheers.

Honestly, i would not buy an iPhone. it's a good device but it's for kids!
have you considered flashing a cooked ROM?
there are plenty out there in the Roms Section of blackstone, personally i prefer Dutty's ROMs, try few of them as most of them have updated Video Drivers which gives you a better graphical and more enjoyable experience.
let us know how things will go

PoisonWolf said:
TC,
Based on what you're telling me (with gaming being a strong criterion), I strongly suggest you just get an iPhone or wait for the GSM-Pre which should be coming in about a month or two (assuming a next-week announcement).
I've been using the TouchHD for a while, and I can agree that the phone gets warm, but by no means hot, so how hot are we talking about here (I understand that the perception of heat is indeed a subjective one)?
And what exactly do you mean by "significant" lag on screen responsiveness? I honestly have not experienced that. Have you installed programs to the brim on your phone on the device memory? Do you actually close your applications? (If you have too many programs running, it'll turn into a tortoise). For the first week, my roommate had no idea that the X-button was not close, but a mere minimize on his Toshiba. He had a constant 10 ~ 11 applications running in the background!
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW you mention games 5 separate time if you include Pokemon (how old are you) buy a ps3 or Xbox and a cheap phone to make phone calls, this is a high end device that when used by people who know what there doing responds excellently I have only run a game to play with my kid period

ozmoran said:
WOW you mention games 5 separate time if you include Pokemon (how old are you) buy a ps3 or Xbox and a cheap phone to make phone calls, this is a high end device that when used by people who know what there doing responds excellently I have only run a game to play with my kid period
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Click to collapse
Ozmoran,
I believe you quoted the wrong person. Lawl. Having said that, well, if he wants to have a gaming device and a phone in one, I guess that he is entitled to his own. But yes, usually, I'd say that Windows Mobile is for business/professional use. I highly doubt it was built for gaming.
Cheers.

everyday we have new roms, how about iphone????? i think hd has its own attraction. good luck!

PoisonWolf said:
Ozmoran,
I believe you quoted the wrong person. Lawl. Having said that, well, if he wants to have a gaming device and a phone in one, I guess that he is entitled to his own. But yes, usually, I'd say that Windows Mobile is for business/professional use. I highly doubt it was built for gaming.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oops LOL my bad.........
Just finished working it was only 4am in Thailand

It sounds like iphone is more suited to what your needing a phone for.(op) I agree that wm is more a business device with gaming as an after thought. I do like teeter if I'm stuck someplace and need to kill a few min.
The sheer number of awesome cooked ROMS and the options that brings to the table is what keeps me going. Never boring!

that's not my first intention to bring you down on blackstone, and I admit that gaming is 1 strong part for me, and I still believe that there are a lots of people out there have the similar feeling as mine.
cos I think generally, if a phone has good performance on gaming, than it should also perform good on many other things. e.g. with regard to pc, gaming pc can do everything that normal(i don't know whether it is the correct word or not) pc can do, cos it got better cpu and gpu and other hardware components.
and i think same things apply to a mobile device as well; people compare hardware specs carefully before they bought a new phone, what they do that for? i can't think of other reasons apart from gaming and strong performance, and I think they are always closely related to each other.
maybe i'm wrong on this opinion but before somebody refering me as kid or childish, show me examples of what gaming device can't really do in comparison to other business or professional oriented phones, and what the difference?
I complaint about htc is becasue I feel they contributed very little to my phone after I bought it, cos all the improvements i got are from these chefs who cook roms for us, and i already mentioned that in my first post on this thread.
on the other hand, neo2007 is trying to develop graphics driver pack in order to improve the graphics performance for our phone, i don't knwo what's the final results gonna be, but at least he is trying atm.
we paid alot to this phone(at least for me), however, what we get from htc?aren't the apps and games on iphone make our phone look stupid, they already got more than 10000 useful things in their app store(maybe even more) to make their phone better, but what we got? there are still a lots of software and games don't fully support wvga and etc..
and that just makes me feel that microsoft/htc does not pay great attention on our device and their phone users.

lynne02191 said:
that's not my first intention to bring you down on blackstone, and I admit that gaming is 1 strong part for me, and I still believe that there are a lots of people out there have the similar feeling as mine.
cos I think generally, if a phone has good performance on gaming, than it should also perform good on many other things. e.g. with regard to pc, gaming pc can do everything that normal(i don't know whether it is the correct word or not) pc can do, cos it got better cpu and gpu and other hardware components.
and i think same things apply to a mobile device as well; people compare hardware specs carefully before they bought a new phone, what they do that for? i can't think of other reasons apart from gaming and strong performance, and I think they are always closely related to each other.
maybe i'm wrong on this opinion but before somebody refering me as kid or childish, show me examples of what gaming device can't really do in comparison to other business or professional oriented phones, and what the difference?
I complaint about htc is becasue I feel they contributed very little to my phone after I bought it, cos all the improvements i got are from these chefs who cook roms for us, and i already mentioned that in my first post on this thread.
on the other hand, neo2007 is trying to develop graphics driver pack in order to improve the graphics performance for our phone, i don't knwo what's the final results gonna be, but at least he is trying atm.
we paid alot to this phone(at least for me), however, what we get from htc?aren't the apps and games on iphone make our phone look stupid, they already got more than 10000 useful things in their app store(maybe even more) to make their phone better, but what we got? there are still a lots of software and games don't fully support wvga and etc..
and that just makes me feel that microsoft/htc does not pay great attention on our device and their phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to some degree i agree with u...
for the price paid for this phone, it does NOT measure up to its 'standards'...
i initially was irritated all the time, but have gotten used to it now..
it's actually not dat bad at all... has good hardware, can be used to do alot of things with..
but not many good games are out there for the HD...
one thing that REALLY dissapointed me was the camera not having a flash.. cuz with the amount i paid for this phone the LEAST they cud have provided me with on the phone is a flash (which actually aint that much of a request to ask for, for such and advanced phone).. and of course the video taking.. both camera and video recording in the dark suck.. but otherwise i am satisfied with it...

Reply from Keith Nowak about the 30FPS issue

About a week ago, I sent an email to all the HTC brass inquiring about the 30FPS cap that most of us are familiar with. An hour later, I received a "canned response", from one of their customer service reps assuring me that this was done "on purpose" to maximize battery life as well as enhance the user experience.
Story short, Keith Nowak, presumably a high ranking HTC exec, sent me back an email with a lengthy explanation of why the cap was in place. I was originally going to write a story about it for the blog I work for, however, it just doesn't seem worth it now since the information he's given me is basically the same thing that some of us have speculated. Interestingly enough however, he did retract the battery saving and user experience comments that I was first given.
Anyways, check it out:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC

infamousjax said:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a downright lie. It is something he is simple overemphasizing about vsync issues with the Epson panel, which will be fixed because the devs here are hard at work.
Sure, it is a dirty hack, but the current method works fine. Completely, smooth and superb 'image quality,' and it makes it LESS choppy.

Hmm, they should just release all their sorce code so the devs here can tear it apart.

..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!

Sounds to me like he has no tech background, and that response was something that he was told to say. I wouldn't imagine at his position he would know the insides of phones and how they work or can be manipulated.

OP, you should reply back asking why use/waste all the resources on a feature that won't be used on a daily basis (maybe once or twice a month, if at all).

OP, if you do reply back. Consider including a link to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
That is nothing but improvement in display quality right there.
Video is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713311

infamousjax said:
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bull****. I made the video proving it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
Tell Keith to salvage his credibility he needs to produce an honest answer. Ask him if he wants to see my run Youtube, or an mp4 video, or anything else, to drop me a line. I'll be happy to continue demonstrating how wrong he is.

The topic on HTC's forum is on page 10. Let's make sure it stays on the front page so support realizes it's a huge customer issue.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94/t/3186.aspx

c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.

This makes me sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilx_cpGZczM

TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Are you being serious? They are trying to help us, how? First, according to them, they are tying up all the resources due to HDMI, which may be a great feature, but is not going to be used by many at all. Second, yeah, they have been doing a great job so far, RIGHT. I guess that's why the Evo had the light leaks, screen separations, other issues as well with the phone so far like bad wifi signal and poor battery.
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.

KERKEDAGAIN said:
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where can i get this "hacked" kernel from and will it kill the camera ?

The last HTC rep I spoke to has assured me that they're working on a fix for the 30FPS cap.

TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I am all for better FPS - but even with 30 fps can you honestly tell me you can tell the gears moving better? I can't tell. I have tried both. I went back to another ROM and its not enabled. I can't tell. I get smooth movement. I am not overclocked and my quadrant on 2.1 with no JIT, etc. is around 590.
I get 30fps on gears and 25.1FPS on NeoCore but without seeing those numbers I could not tell the difference between the two in regards to better frames. I have ran both. The only difference for me is the Froyo 2.2 EVOA which is smoother in screen transitions and can multi-task much better in regards to updating and installing severals apps at a time. Otherwise video has yet to create a margin that is noticeable to me.

It has nothing to do with gears moving faster and if you had applied the 30 fps breaking kernel you would see that everything in the os is snappier including scrolling, touch lag etc..

you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately

jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Works just fine on the new OTA...

jblazea50 said:
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously. We need to just stop asking for a 30FPS cap fix and just keep asking for the source code because honestly, with the source code the devs could just fix most, if not all of this crap already.

jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do - I enjoy that game for a while now. I have it loaded on every ROM along with Robo Defense.
What is the BIG difference?
I notice little things about everything so when improvement is made I make comments. But there hasn't been much improvement in that area.
The camera much snappier and the pictures are much better in daylight. I took some great pictures to test at High Resolution and I am impressed with the camera. Before it was just so-so but now some of the pictures of the same images are greatly improved upon for sharpness and color saturation.
See so I do notice differences - perhaps not in the FPS but in other things

30FPS Issue is in 1 word OUTRAGEOUS... Proposed "clean" solution?

I know this has been said again and again, but I just have to put my opinion out there..
To realize what provoked this thread see here and a benchmark test on youtube where the evo gets pwnt by the nexus one and droid x on so many levels.
HTC claims that the reason EVERY other android phone can get twice as much frames per second as us is because they don't have an HDMI port..
Did they really think that was gonna fly?
I'd gladly never use my hdmi port to have smooth as butter 60FPS.. and to set the record straight we DO notice the difference.
At the very least they could have imposed the limit only when content is being output via hdmi!
I cannot understand how they thought we'd sit back and allow this.
Android is the home of nerds, enthusiasts, overclockers, benchmarkers and rom chefs.
This isn't the typical iphone userbase, we notice a lack of performance and inefficiency.
Both of which our phones are in no short supply of..
Our tests and kernel tweaks have proved that this DEFECT can be bypassed, so why are they still going on about hardware limitations?
How come our PREMIUM phones that we have to pay an extra 10 bucks per month just to own, can't even catch up to the very first android phone (G1) in terms of 2D FPS?
How come everybody else is capable of 60fps while we with our "revolutionary multimedia phones" can't even churn out anything past 30FPS without tweaks, and hacks, and best of all voiding our warranties.
It's ****ing blasphemy I tell you.
How about a rom that allows for disabling of hdmi?
I don't know just how ingrained it is with the snapdragon CPU or more likely the gpu, but it's surely possible.
I mean how many of us would've gotten these phones if we knew it was either hdmi or 60fps?

Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
This belongs here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=699290

topdnbass said:
HTC claims that the reason EVERY other android phone can get twice as much frames per second as us is because they don't have an HDMI port..
Did they really think that was gonna fly?
I'd gladly never use my hdmi port to have smooth as butter 60FPS.. and to set the record straight we DO notice the difference.
At the very least they could have imposed the limit only when content is being output via hdmi! <-That should be a poll option
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aridon said:
Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
This belongs here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=699290
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDMI is their excuse isn't it, Droid X has HDMI will it always be limited to 30FPS?

Personally, I'd rather loose battery life and HDMI (never going to use that ****) output for no lag and better performance.
At least give us the option, HTC.

For the most part HDMI out, is a "feature for friends".
I don't think that many of us are ACTUALLY using this often.
I mean it's nice to have and i'm sure it can come into handy one day, but not at this expense!
Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to Keith Nowak it has very much to do with hdmi..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713677
I have sifted through that convoluted thread.. but see no indication that anything else is causing the cap..
So then? What IS causing it.

topdnbass said:
For the most part HDMI out, is a "feature for friends".
I don't think that many of us are ACTUALLY using this often.
I mean it's nice to have and i'm sure it can come into handy one day, but not at this expense!
According to Keith Nowak it has very much to do with hdmi..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713677
I have sifted through that convoluted thread.. but see no indication that anything else is causing the cap..
So then? What IS causing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you implying i have no friends?

Indeed.
Screw implying.
You straight up got no friends bro!
Sorry, better luck next time.
Sent from my Evo 4G

I don't really understand why I'd use hdmi. This thing isn't pushing out .mkv files is it?
And you better believe I'm not spending extra money on a fancy mini hdmi cord. F that.
Take out the hdmi, give me a freaking Ethernet port instead Haha. Id prolly use that at least once, which will be more than I ever use hdmi.
(Actually come to think of it 4g to wired Ethernet tether for devices that don't support usb tether would be rather slick.)

Now that HTC fixed the grounding issue on the phone with the OTA update, my attention is now completely on the FPS issue. This is really frustrating. I have 5 days left to return my phone and I am really trying to figure out what to do. I don't want to go to Verizon because it's more expensive and I'm still in contract until Oct if I return the Evo. $50 ETF isn't a huge deal though. I've never been an apple fan and have never personally owned an iPhone but when you put the Evo next to Apple's latest, the screen choppiness really shows. It makes me mad. It makes me feel like the Evo is still behind the iPhone (when on paper is was not at all).
Look, I'm not sitting here saying that 30FPS is making my phone crappy and less enjoyable. The thought of getting duped by HTC is what bothers me. HTC sold us something on paper, and delivered something else. Isn't that called bait and switch?
Another problem is that none of the Sprint sales people, HTC customer service reps, or Best Buy/RS employees know enough about FPS to realize what it has done to our "wicked fast" phone. They look at us like we're crazy. I was describing the grounding issue to my local RS sales guy and he was giving me a look like I was being a baby about it.

Even though the 30 fps cap is still there the new update has gotten rid of all the screen lag I've had in sense and the browser.

donatom3 said:
Even though the 30 fps cap is still there the new update has gotten rid of all the screen lag I've had in sense and the browser.
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Click to collapse
The motion blur you see when you swipe screens or scroll in the browser is a result of 30FPS. I still have it after the update. Use a nexus one or droid and you'll see the difference. It's very noticeable side-by-side. Sure, I don't see it when I'm using my phone. My brain gets used to it. The problem is that phones that have been out for 12 months have better screen motion than we do with our "wicked fast" phone.

meh at least we don't have to deal with this:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=954054

Wow! Seems pretty widespread... That really sucks. On top of that, they have to deal with the manipulations as Apple tries to dodge the complaints.

Great another post of so me one whining go return the phone, please return your phone and get a box of tampons

BrianDigital said:
Great another post of so me one whining go return the phone, please return your phone and get a box of tampons
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Click to collapse
I'll make sure to get you an English 101 book while I'm out shopping.

coolguy949 said:
I'll make sure to get you an English 101 book while I'm out shopping.
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Click to collapse
Hardy har, atleast I used one comma hey look htc just released a patch to fix the cap. Soley based off your whiney post

This is a public forum. People complain on it. Get used to it.

ahh fanboys make me smile

the 30fps cap is hardware, and cant be overcome

directly from an htc engineer, not some exec who doesnt really know what hes talking about.
there are two interface adapters, one for the lcd and the other for the hdmi port. the lcd uses mddi 1.1 while the rgb is used for hdmi. the mddi 1.1 operates at 30fps and no software update will fix it. changing the refresh rate is all that can be done, and this causes tearing which weve seen. sorry guys, but unless the hardware changes (it wont) were stuck at 30fps. keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps

hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.

Im so sick of hearing "most movies are shot at ... fps". Most movies also have a constant frame rate that doesnt stutter or surge. Not to mention the input lag.
There are times when I am scrolling that I can literally count the frames, that is just unacceptable.

cnstarz said:
hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.
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its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.

kellybrf said:
its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.

zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?

I have a novatec panel and have no tearing. I read that epsons do have tearing tho.

zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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I have to agree here. I work for a software company in tech support and sometimes I'm clueless about a feature of the software that I have been using for over 5 years. Funny thing is not all the programmers and developers know how to even navigate through the front-end of the software. So just because they are an "engineer" at HTC, don't mean crap to me.

the panels have nothing to do with it, theyre capable of a higher fps its the mddi adapter that is holding it back
and let me rephrase the htc engineer thing...its from an evo engineer who knows all about the phone

This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.

eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
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Yes the fps is capped at 30 and yes the hack does work for novatec panels. Epson get tearing with the fps hack.

shep211 said:
Epson get tearing with the fps hack.
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Not for long. *evil grin*

eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
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The hack does get us past the 30fps. Before the source was released they got close to 56fps on both Novatek and Epson LCD panels. Now with a new source the most they have been able to get is 40-50fps, but now with working camera and 4G. It's only a matter of time though. And if you know HTC, they are known for saying it's a hardware limitation when it's in fact, software.
The phone has only been on sale for little over a month and look at all the amazing work that has been done. This amazing community's work rivals the speed of light, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?

halorin said:
This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.
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no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of mddi or rgb interfaces (i checked...edit, except that i checked the wrong thing ) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case

kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.)
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It's not. Do more searching and you will find it. Heck, I even got that same information as a reply from HTC customer service more than 20 days ago!

kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case
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That has been 'known' now for about two weeks, A quick search would have revealed that this 'engineer' hasn't revealed anything that HTC hasn't claimed before
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6896671&postcount=982
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6897077&postcount=989

If it was a hardware cap it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a software "dirty hack" bypass it.... What you are saying is IMPOSSIBLE! We have proven that it is not a hardware cap. It would be helpful since you are a EVO engineer at HTC. To hook us up with the people responsible for the coding of this fps limit. I am not flaming.

sablesurfer said:
I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?
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wow, been a long day. mddi, which explains why midi turned up no results

kellybrf said:
keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps
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The look of 24p is only considered superior because it's more film-like - which is purely a matter of conditioning on our part. We've become adjusted to an image with limited data and we somehow equate this with quality, as it's nearly analogous to the film experience which was considered greatly superior to video until recent years. (Even when the bulk of televisions default to 3:2 pulldown to display it. Ugh.)
That being said, I'd never use that excuse for a refresh rate on a monitor. I'm sorry, that argument simply doesn't carry any weight with me.
I'm more than happy with my phone and I don't play any games on it, so I'm not too upset if this news does end up being the final word - but the comparison to film and television simply isn't applicable.
Anyway, hasn't anyone ever watched sports in 720p at 60 fields per second and marveled at how smooth the action is?

will the 30fps plague ever be lifted??

coming from a samsung galaxy s capable of 60fps , i bought a dell streak for a gaming device because of the screen size, to find put its only capable of 30fps???
every game i pop in there plays very jittery , angry birds for example, when u launch the bird its very very jittery and blurry when the bird flys and actually gives me eye strain and a headache, so before i bring back my att dell streak is froyo 2.2 guaranteed to lift the 30fps plague??

most likely not. from the looks of the ****ty roms from dell, its not promising at all. if you're looking for performance, might as well buy a desire hd or something. htc has much more experience in making android.

damn sucks , welp gunna get a refund from.dell now , thanks for the reply

And BTW Don't forget that the Galaxy S haves 3 times faster GPU than the Streak!

there's phones with way less power then the streak thats able to do 60 fps,
at 30fps the screen really bothers my eye while scrolling, the problem is the phone is CAPPED at 30fps , im just confused on why dell would choose that root knowing this is there first phone, usually first impressions are a must

Probably because of the HDMI out option in the phone.
Shame on Dell, this phone sounded like a dream a year ago.
They released too late.
The hardware is rather old now.
30fps cap
Proprietary connector
android 1.6
Phone was DOA per the above.

how much bull can there be in a thread?
the 30fps cap is down to the hdmi, some of us are looking at removing it.
the galaxy s doesn't have a 3x faster gpu. it has a seperate one, yet I can beat the quadrant scores with what you seem to think is the oh so **** streak.
angry birds really doesn't look jittery here, at any point.
The streak doesn't have a proprietory connector, it uses pdmi, it would be good if dell had told us, and even better if other manufacturers used it as well, so we could get cheaper accessories!
the hardware is the same as HTC are currently releasing, obviously out of date.

Fards, I love you for defending the Streak! Hey, this is my 2-week old baby
Surely it can't be out of date already!
Angry birds looks amazing and wife can't wait for the publication of the full game.

An old ipod 2g plays angry birds like butter, if u think the dell streak plays angry birds with smooth graphics you must have bad eyes, oh and dont bother selecting smooth scrolling in mozilla because its fine the way it is loooooool ,

horses for courses.
one of the main reasons I ditched my Galaxy S was because of the laughably tragic GPS implementation (it looks as though Samsung may be the un-named party in SkyHook vs Google which may explain a few things ...)
the lag issue on the SGS makes it a joke too, "yeah mum all you need to do is flash a rooted ROM using Odin and apply a lagfix - but then don't update to Froyo without wiping and re-partitioning the phone first" - um, no
I'm keeping my SGS around for as long as possible, in case CyanogenMod is released this lifetime ....
30fps is actually as fast as TV and faster than film, yet no one except Jim Cameron complains (and he wants 48fps).
high fps is only part of the story for smooth motion, also cartoons are 12fps but nobody mentions that either, ever. it could be the Streak is stuttering below 30fps, I'm sure a constant 30fps would be perfectly acceptable.
so I don't really see what a big deal a 30fps cap is, but then I prefer Starquake and Dynamite Dan over COD and Halo.

30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell

Its a fact. Cinema is 24fps. many bluerays fix the refresh to 24fps to match the speed of cell cameras. It looks great. And anyone who bought a 200hz tv is an idiot. It will not improve motion it is just a resample and any resampling will degrade quality. So with that out the way ill end by saying 30fps is more than adequate. My girlfriend has the sgs and while its a great phone the streaak is a better device on so many levels
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

cowballz69 said:
30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell
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thanks for not coming back

cowballz69 said:
30fps tv??? do u have wood surrounding your tv screen, and does it weigh 900 pounds,
amazing i feel so much dumber talking on this forum, don't expect me to re post,so u can talk among yourself s while this piece of 30fps **** goes back to dell
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Click to collapse
I understand why you feel so dumb while there are much smarter people on this forum...

angry bird on android runs at higher resolution than on iPhone. it might look good on 3GS or older model, but not on iPhone 4 with its high resolution screen.
so it's not a surprise to see an old iPod touch to play angry bird smoothly..
i wonder how it gonna handle angry bird with high reso like the one we have on android!

so pleased I won't have to explain frames vs fields, progressive vs interlaced, whew!

maybe u should?

miker71 said:
so pleased I won't have to explain frames vs fields, progressive vs interlaced, whew!
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As a general rule just ignore anyhing that isnt progressive. In this day and age theres no excuse for interlaced
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

here's a good starting point
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
more fps may indeed be more "real" however i think the key is a consistent framerate without stuttering.
we are asking our phones to do more and more and do it well - i'm more than happy with what the dell streak offers today despite perhaps a weaker GPU (wait - phones have a GPU!!!! honestly, seeing this tech evolve over the years shows an amazing journey and some very clever engineering no matter where your brand allegiances may lay)
what i find ironic is that ARM + PowerVR are mobile darlings that were written off in the nineties as the Windows juggernaut became unstoppable.
(remember PowerVR losing to Voodoo 3Dfx ... who has the last laugh!!)

cowballz69 said:
every game i pop in there plays very jittery , angry birds for example, when u launch the bird its very very jittery and blurry when the bird flys and actually gives me eye strain and a headache, so before i bring back my att dell streak is froyo 2.2 guaranteed to lift the 30fps plague??
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If its jittery it's not running at 30fps is it? Angry Birds is beta anyway...
I don't think you actually understand...