Hi all:
I'd like to open this thread to give an idea for those who want to know about Windows Phone 8 and how this OS looks from the other side.
I notice that if some one asked abut Windows Phone 8 mostly members here will mention the Advantages of the OS and will show the light side only !
For me I like to show the other Side of the OS name it as you wish.... disadvantages, restrictions or Windows Phone 8 philosophy.
I hope Microsoft will read what we will write in this thread as we will explain our point of view and our vision about Windows Phone 8.
So they can explain to us if we misunderstand this OS and the way it should work, so we can understand each other to take a better decisions about adopting Windows Phone 8 or leaving it to other OS.
Please notice that I like general idea about this OS and how it is looks, but it is important for me to know in which direction Windows Phone 8 is heading, is it going in my direction and what I think it will be or in the opposite direction .
Note: this thread is about restrictions, Windows Phone 8 defenders can open other thread about Windows Phone 8 advantages, and I will be pleased to mention many of WP8 advantages.
How I feel about Windows Phone 8 in General.
Security & Security again Security I feel like people behind Windows Phone 8 watching their phones screens all the night waiting for some malware or trojan to attack, but in fact all the malware and trojans are busy in other places and no one of it will attack Windows Phone 8, because still they don't even know what is Windows Phone 8 !
They made Windows Phone 8 full of restrictions ..................... and I feel it is just a keypad old Nokia Phone with touch screen and camera.
Microsoft you didn't go so far away from Nokia 3310 , do you remember it ?
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well done after all this years you just added a Lumia + touch screen + a camera.
Microsoft just removed the keypad and snack game (I'm sure guys in Nokia wasn't satisfied abut that but Mr.Stephen Elop was pushing them)
I downloaded one ringtone for my Lumia 920............ I was forced to connect my Lumia 920 to my Laptop to put the MP3 file inside the Lumia 920 ringtone folder so the Lumia 920 can feel what happened to it after this surgery ..........I was forced to do this surgery because Windows Phone 8 doesn't have a file manager, this word file manager in Microsoft is equal to terrorism, security ,,,,,,,,security ................security...........restrictions .....not allowed this is really disappointed.
Dude, if you want anybody either here or at Microsoft to take you seriously, write clearly and cut the hyperbole. All I got out of that was "there's no file manager on the phone, so I had to copy an MP3 to the Ringtones folder manually; Microsoft, why must you restrict me so!?!"
... and I say this as one of the people leading the WP8 hacking effort, most of which is aimed at removing those sorts of restrictions. If I were a Microsoft architect reading that and deciding whether to even bother filing the feedback, I'd probably discard it as "just another incoherent Microsoft-hater who doesn't even have a real problem, just a complaint about the workflow for an infrequent user experience". If that's not the bin you want your words tossed in, you need to sound like somebody to be taken seriously.
Talk about how their mis-steps will hurt their bottom line. Talk about competitive advantages and disadvantages. Talk about company loyalty - not in a "frothing at the mouth" or "bitter and snide comments" manner, but in terms of what gains (or loses) it in large groups - and point out ways that they are can help improve it. Don't tell them what to do - Microsoft has a *terrible* case of Not Invented Here when it comes to outside suggestions - but justify to them what they *should* do, in the same way you would, for example, try to justify to your boss that you deserve a raise, or something like that. If you can convince people there to want to make things better, you've already won; one person on the inside probably has more influence than a thousand voices out here. Be persuasive, not argumentative; diplomatic, not intimidating; charismatic, not petulant; thoughtful, not dogmatic. Being passionate is fine, even great, but you must channel it into mature and meaningful discussion, not outbursts.
Another point: think about the restrictions from their side. They didn't put them there to piss you off. Nobody trying to break into a market intentionally cripples their product to make it *less* popular. They have reasons. Those reasons may not be for your benefit, of course - Microsoft's real customers are OEMs and mobile operators, not users, and sometimes the desires of those customers override the desires of *their* customers, the users. Think about things like test and support costs, the dangers of bad press and reputations for malware and the like, and other problems they may have foreseen. Consider what it might cost them to do what you want, and make your case in terms of it being more valuable for them to do that than just in terms of what you want personally.
And seriously, can the hyperbole. I can't take anybody who claims that a device which didn't even have a decent approximation of a real web browser is basically the same, aside from some hardware features, as a WP8 device. That kind of talk will just get you dismissed out of hand.
Dear GoodDayToDie:
I respect you point of view but I can't go one with Microsoft the easy mom son way ..... some one should rise his hand against them and show a real image about Windows Phone 8.
because of what I said they banned my user name in Wpcentral forum ........... they don't want to see any opinion against them .......they are group of old dictator minds who they don't accept any opinion against them ............the republic of MicrosoftStan .
It is my right..........People who invested their money $$$$ in Windows Phone 7 handsets found their selves abounded without any more development for their Phones............. they make one mistake in believed in Microsoft and trusted this company and Microsoft replied back the way you know for Windows Phone 7 and this is the same reason why developers kept away from Windows Phone in general.
I now have the right to know how this OS will carry on and in which direction it is going.
Let Microsoft clear things out...........................in GDR3 they make a good progress ............... so we want the good work to keep on faster.
here I mentioned one restriction and there is alot more we will come through it.
Microsoft should come closer to people and they should start with removing the banned from my account in Wpcentral for example.
We need assurances from Microsoft that the OS will have most requested options and Windows Phone 8 users will not be abounded soon like Windows Phone 7.
So we want to know if Microsoft is a friend or enemy
one-option said:
Dear GoodDayToDie:
I respect you point of view but I can't go one with Microsoft the easy mom son way ..... some one should rise his hand against them and show a real image about Windows Phone 8.
because of what I said they banned my user name in Wpcentral forum ........... they don't want to see any opinion against them .......they are group of old dictator minds who they don't accept any opinion against them ............the republic of MicrosoftStan .
It is my right..........People who invested their money $$$$ in Windows Phone 7 handsets found their selves abounded without any more development for their Phones............. they make one mistake in believed in Microsoft and trusted this company and Microsoft replied back the way you know for Windows Phone 7 and this is the same reason why developers kept away from Windows Phone in general.
I now have the right to know how this OS will carry on and in which direction it is going.
Let Microsoft clear things out...........................in GDR3 they make a good progress ............... so we want the good work to keep on faster.
here I mentioned one restriction and there is alot more we will come through it.
Microsoft should come closer to people and they should start with removing the banned from my account in Wpcentral for example.
We need assurances from Microsoft that the OS will have most requested options and Windows Phone 8 users will not be abounded soon like Windows Phone 7.
So we want to know if Microsoft is a friend or enemy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is kinda funny how everybody argues with the "omg WP7 abandoned" card, when it isn't entirely true. Wp7 still has 1 full year of support left, and any bugs will be fixed if discovered. Did you know that all Wp7 got 2 updates (after 7.8) which fixed gmail sync?
Plus, you keep saying the WP7 "abandon" is something that only happens with Windows Phone, yet you keep forgetting that most android devices don't get a 18 month support life cycle at all, let alone 18 months renewed with each update (wp8 now has 36 months! of support for each new version iteration). Unless you pay a lot of money on hardware which is really waisted (cough, galaxy phones, cough) or on overpiced phones (cough iphone), you won't get technical support at all in most cases.
I understand you just want to bash on WP because you got banned from WPCentral, but you will be ignored here anyway. Plus, Microsoft employees can't see this forum due to its hacking nature.
mcosmin222 said:
It is kinda funny how everybody argues with the "omg WP7 abandoned" card, when it isn't entirely true. Wp7 still has 1 full year of support left, and any bugs will be fixed if discovered. Did you know that all Wp7 got 2 updates (after 7.8) which fixed gmail sync?
Plus, you keep saying the WP7 "abandon" is something that only happens with Windows Phone, yet you keep forgetting that most android devices don't get a 18 month support life cycle at all, let alone 18 months renewed with each update (wp8 now has 36 months! of support for each new version iteration). Unless you pay a lot of money on hardware which is really waisted (cough, galaxy phones, cough) or on overpiced phones (cough iphone), you won't get technical support at all in most cases.
I understand you just want to bash on WP because you got banned from WPCentral, but you will be ignored here anyway. Plus, Microsoft employees can't see this forum due to its hacking nature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you............ come on keep the good work on keep defending Microsoft
First of all I'm honest with my self as with others ................... if I said something so I mean it.
I want to show any one buying Windows Phone 8 a true image of what he will be facing in that OS...... I don't want people to make my mistake and buy a product don't meet their needs.
How could you even compare Android support with Microsoft ???!!!
for Android there is alot of alternatives available on software side and Android full of options so even if the 18 months of official support ended the users will not be worried that some essentials stuff will not be available in his phone like Windows Phone................. man still we are waiting GDR3 to get Auto rotation off
the Android updates bring additional new stuff compare to the essential basic options Windows Phone 8 updates brings to the OS where older Abounded OS like Symbian long back was having this options.
I DO NOT CARE about Microsoft employees and I'm sure that they are following & reading xda forums , how did I knew that ???
People like you here in the big forums always ready to cover Microsoft back, and If I will be ignored here that will not be because people don't care about what I say no..............but out of Wpcentral forums there is small interest about Windows Phone in general.
and people who want to see the truth of Windows Phone can follow this thread................ back their in Wpcentral they erased every word I wrote about Windows Phone 8 so that show that Microsoft really watching what I write close and they are interest about what I'm saying so wait me in facebook also, the world should know the clear truth about Windows Phone.
I will say no lies about Windows Phone 8, I will just show the truth a real image for Windows Phone 8, I'm writing to those who want to get Windows Phone 8 , and they will decide buying Windows Phone 8 or go with other OS.
Here are some retractions to those who intend to buy a new Windows Phone 8 device.
1- No File Manager in Windows Phone 8
The file manager is an important tool to get control over your device, Well here is the idea
Windows Phone 8 is more like application dependent platform, it is organized in strict way so if you want to watch video you will have to check in (Music + Video section/Hub) where you will find your videos and Music.
Same thing is true for images you have to watch your images in photo section/Hub....for other kind of Documents like word or excel you will have to check in Microsoft Office..... there is no ability to check this files inside the folders from the phone........... in general you can't see the folders unless you connect your phone to a computer......... every thing should be kept in its place images in Photo folder, ringtones should be in ringtone folder and so on.
So If you want to create another folders for special images other than photo folder Windows Phone 8 will not be able to see them !!!!
This is not smart at all
So what about non supported files or files there is no application to open them ?
There is no way to open such files in your phone or view them weather this file was image, video or what ever else.
In general people long time back requested Microsoft for file manager, but Microsoft simply not responding and ignoring that requests.
2- Control ringtone and media volume separately
This is another big problem.......... for example at night if you turned the phone ringer silent and you want to listen to some music you will not be able to do so in Windows Phone 8 smart phone .........cause if you turn phone ringer silent ....every thing will turned silent music , video ....every thing......Good thinking Microsoft.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3- Web Browser: Windows Phone 8 use Internet explorer 10 as default web browser and in general there is very few web browsers available in the market.
back to internet explorer there is only refresh button available in the browser no stop or going forward or back....... it is really bad experience to browse the web with Internet explorer.
More than that try to visit a web site with drop down list and select any thing , you will find the drop down list and you will be able to select what ever you want but that will make no different and the system will not respond to what you have selected...really disappointing .
4- Phone dailer: In general Phone book and Phone dailer one of the things I like about this OS it is really unique but it is missing some features like smart dailing & call duration in call History, long press on a contact name will offer two options delete the item from call history or block that name, no other options to send a message or MMS you have to dig inside to get this options.
5- Install XAP Files without SD Card: In Android for example you can install APK files in any Android phone (you can download any Application from any non google markets and install it offline without the need for internet connection by downloading APK files) but the equivalent of APK file in Windows Phone 8 is XAP file and it can be installed only in a handset with SD card support !!!!
Devices like Nokia Lumia 1020 or 920 is not able to install XAP files where in low end device like Nokia Lumia 520 you can do that !!!!
What a nice thing.
To be continue
The member in Wpcentral forums N_LaRUE writes about Windows Phone 8 and make clear statement about Windows Phone 8........ he really show a clear image about that OS.
********************************************
The phone (Windows Phone 8) was set up for the average consumer, which has been pointed out several times already. Average consumer is -> Music, photos, text, calls, social, email, web, games and apps. Most users will rarely use Office and less would even want a file manager. There's enough studies to back this trend.
Mobile Office is a review/general edit software, not a full-blown suite. It's not meant to replace Office on tablet or PC. The average size of most documents (Word/Excel) are typically well under 1MB.
The large quantity of memory is to compete with other platforms. The average consumer doesn't require large memory. Statistics have shown that most people have few apps and games on their mobile. Most memory is used for photos and music.
Keep in mind, we're talking about where MS has targeted it's product which is 'first world' consumer and this is the general statistics that they have used in thinking about their product. They have also copied some aspects from Apple and their primary concern is security and ecosystem.
The WP platform is not meant to be a replacement for a computer. It was not meant to replace Symbian or Android. In it's current state it is mostly a consumer device with some productive elements. This is the best way to think of WP.
***************************************
a link for the thread
Frankly speaking I misunderstand the Windows Phone 8 OS and according to what N_LaRUE said ....this OS is not what I'm looking for, but I will keep at least one of my two Windows Phone 8 devices with me as a back up phone in case I need it for sometime.
I will not mention any more restrictions, I think that the idea behind the OS Windows Phone 8 is clear .... the OS developed for that propose for specified needs for special kind of customers and I will name them as non advanced customers with minimum needs of control over the device to give a basic and easy experience for smartphone users.
1) File manager: not really needed on the user side, if applications integrate themselves properly.
2) separate volume for notifications/alaram/whatever: god no. Just no. That was soo broken in android. I remember the days when a collage wold snatch my phone and accidentaly press the play button on whatever music widget I had an the loud music would pump in the room. No, just no. I like it the way it is. If i set my volume to 0, it means i want the phone to be quiet!
3) browser? why would you need a different browser if the one present just works? I see you're coming from android, where the system just sucks and needs 3rd party apps to do even the most basic jobs. Sorry, ain't happening on WP.
4) install XAP: nope, no piracy. As i developer, I freeking love it.
Bleh... I'm just going to respond to both of you in one message. It already kind of feels like I'm feeding trolls.
First of all, Microsoft is well aware of this site and at least some of their employees do read it and link to it at work (I work in the Seattle tech industry, so of course I know some Microsofties). It's probably not the best place to try and get a personal response, or even widespread change of opinion, but it's not something that nobody ever visits. Part of the reason XDA has such strong anti-piracy rules is to avoid being flagged as a warez site and blocked.
Second, while some of your points are good, one-option, your writing (except in your last post, thankfully) is so unpleasant to read that I find myself disregarding what you have to say even when I agree with it. Professionalism is not the only key to being taken seriously, but it's an important one. Long chains of periods (full stops) and exclamation marks, inconsistent capitalization and punctuation, difficult-to-follow sentence structure, interjections and tangents (like "Good thinking Microsoft" and "should start with removing the banned from my account in Wpcentral for example"), and so on all make it really hard for anybody (Microsoft employee or XDA member) to take your writing seriously. If you aren't going to write in a way that other people will bother to read, why write at all?
Third, Microsoft doesn't control WPCentral. There are two pretty trivial ways to tell: first, look at the domain registration information (registered through GoDaddy for "Smartphone Experts" of "Axel Ltd. Co" out of Florida); second, read their articles (including the ones they post about interop-unlocks and free dev unlocks and so on) and realize that a lot of that is stuff that MS employees would never spread externally (not that you've shown any sign of understanding how businesspeople think, but trust me, that's not something they would do). Getting all pissy about your banned account there - almost certainly because you were making a general nuisance of yourself, much like you are here, regardless of the validity of your complaints - is completely off-topic for XDA anyhow.
Fourth, if you've concluded that WP8 is not for you, that's fine and dandy. If you love other smartphone OSes so much, why do you have WP devices anyhow? They certainly aren't the cheapest option (although some of them have a great price-to-hardware value). Just have fun with your other devices. The rest of us will have fun with ours.
Fifth, the file management thing is actually a good point. mcosmin222, contrary to what you say, there are serious limitations on how much you can integrate an app with the OS. For example, lets say my music is in Ogg Vorbis format. Re-encoding it would greatly reduce the quality (and Vorbis is a good codec anyhow) but if I just put those Ogg files on my phone via USB in the normal way, I won't be able to open them from an Ogg player app, or manage them (much less play them) through the built-in media software. I can't replace that media software either, which is another kind of restriction but another genuinely problematic one; apps aren't allowed to set themselves as the default handler for anything which the OS has a built-in handler for, and the built-in media app has capabilities no third-party app is allowed to have.
Sixth, the volume control on WP8 is very poorly designed. Leaving aside the fact that even dumbphones have long been perfectly capable of supporting different media and ringtone (and call, which WP8 *does* support, and alarms, which it doesn't really) volume levels, there are other issues like keeping the same value between headphones and "loud"speaker. As for the counterpoint about blaring music when you don't want to, that's a non-issue; nobody is *forcing* you to set the volumes differently, and if you choose to do so, it's presumably because you feel the benefits outweigh the problems. However, that's not really a "restriction". It's a poor design of the OS, but it's not something that you are prevented from doing (in the same sense that producing a usable file manager is prohibited, because of the prohibition on developers adding the required capabilities to their apps). In any case, it's a long-requested and well-known item, and quite popular on the Uservoice site (which already exists as a feedback mechanism to Microsoft).
Seventh, you can actually change what buttons are on the IE app bar in WP8 (it's in settings). You can of course install third-party apps that provide their own UI around a WebView as well, just like on iOS. In fact, this is mostly *not* a restriction problem, and there are several browser apps in the store (adding more isn't hard either). The place where restrictions on the users do become a problem is in *changing* the default browser. Currently, that's not possible without pretty extensive hacks. With that said, though calling the current browser one that "just works" is an ignorant and disingenuous thing to say. It may work for many people, but it certainly doesn't work for all people. For example, the inconvenience of needing to create browser shortcuts for Forward/Back/View Source, the limitation of 6 tabs, the restriction to only "desktop" or "mobile" user-agent string options, the inability to go full-screen, and more... those are all problems with the built-in browser app that a third-party one can fix, to say nothing of the many other problems that one can't (not practically, at least).
Eighth, to send a message to a contact from the dialer interface, it's really easy: tap the contact (name or phone number) to open the contact card, then tap "text" (or whatever you want to do). That's the same number of taps, and without the hold, that it would take to do what you (one-option) are suggesting.
Ninth, you are *both* wrong about XAPs.
mcosmin222, there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn't be able to install Store apps by opening a link to the XAP in the browser or an attached one in an email; it would work the same way as installation from SD card (requires a quic connection to the store in order to get license info). In fact, this *is* how you install "company apps"; the code to handle opening files with .XAP extension is already present. It just (for no discernible reason at all) only works for XAPs with company app signatures. Logically, it *should* process DRMed-and-store-signed apps the same way that installing from SD does, and unsigned apps by offering to install them directly (assuming your phone is developer-unlocked). It just doesn't work that way, for some reason. Note that there is absolutely no increase in piracy through this approach; it is *merely* a way to make legitimately installing apps less inconvenient for the user. That's it.
For one-option, as I've already mentioned, you can open XAPs in the browser or email; they just won't install that way if they are either store apps or development/homebrew apps. To install store apps, use the store on the phone, the store web site on a PC, or a SD card. To install homebrew/development apps, use the Application Deployment tool (xapdeploy.exe) that is part of the (free) WP8 SDK installation with a phone connected via USB. This is a bad user experience, undeniably; to have so many ways to install apps is good, to have them all mutually incompatible with each other is terrible. For example, why not let xapdeploy (or some other USB-based tool) install store-signed apps, anyhow? It would serve *exactly* the same use case as doing it via SD card, but would be more convenient for those people who have the dev tools installed and would be usable by people who don't have microSD slots.
Once again, though, this isn't really a "restriction" thing except for the limits on what sideloaded apps can do, and how many can be sideloaded. It's a poorly-designed user experience which causes frustration, confusion, and misconceptions about the product line, all of which are detrimental to gaining market share and positive marketplace reputation. That's more than bad enough, but don't confuse it with "restrictions". Those exist too, but you missed them entirely.
Hi,
The worst drawback is the calendar, doesn't anyone use it nowday's? As a working tool it's unusable. Thanks to Week View I can use WP 8 but even Week View is limited due to the lack edit function in the program. I know Microsoft "consider" this issue, consider!? Take a look of the calender in WP 6.5 that one had all the functions needed for Daily use.
Second worse is the dialer that doesn't look up phone numbers. Ok I use Another dialer for Calling and the built in when calling missed phone calls. Somehow we are back in the stoneage in some areas.
I choose WP 8 because of the strong Connection with Exchange which the other phone OS lacks.
Still WP 8 it's fast and works well in other areas but as mention earlier in the threads, it's not made as a working tool, it's made as a toy!
Just my 2 cent!
@GoodDayToDie:
I said the file manager is not really needed on the user side. I want the apps to have more powers when handling the user folders however. Trust me, I know the ogg vorbis problem better than anyone on this forum.
Hi.
I have done a small amount of cleaning. OP if you insist on having a thread about why you do not like WP8 (Presonally I have never tried it so I don't care one way or the other), then I expect you to do so in a civilized and respectful manner. This goes for everyone that feels the need to reply to this thread. There is nothing wrong with a discussion about personal preference or likes and dislikes as long as it is done with thoughtful and mature conversation.
Cheers,
-DSB
diestarbucks said:
Hi.
I have done a small amount of cleaning. OP if you insist on having a thread about why you do not like WP8 (Presonally I have never tried it so I don't care one way or the other), then I expect you to do so in a civilized and respectful manner. This goes for everyone that feels the need to reply to this thread. There is nothing wrong with a discussion about personal preference or likes and dislikes as long as it is done with thoughtful and mature conversation.
Cheers,
-DSB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The matter is that I opened this thread to collect the WP8 restrictions, in fact it wasn't restrictions but this is the way the system works.
So I pointed out that and I mentioned that I will not talk about any more restrictions in Windows Phone 8 cause it is working that way.
but WP8 people insisted to attack me & I replied back.
I tried to provide clear image and experience about Windows Phone 8, but some people just don't like that.
one-option said:
The matter is that I opened this thread to collect the WP8 restrictions, in fact it wasn't restrictions but this is the way the system works.
So I pointed out that and I mentioned that I will not talk about any more restrictions in Windows Phone 8 cause it is working that way.
but WP8 people insisted to attack me & I replied back.
I tried to provide clear image and experience about Windows Phone 8, but some people just don't like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you, or anyone, feels they are being attacked, then the correct course of action is to report the post and let a mod come in and handle it. Replying back is just going to drag on the issue and in most all cases will make things worse.
Light side is often spoken of because the "dark" side is covered just about everywhere. The OS is the dark horse in this race, it has flaws just like the rest ...but there easily found in detail elsewhere.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
one-option said:
Here are some retractions to those who intend to buy a new Windows Phone 8 device.
1- No File Manager in Windows Phone 8
The file manager is an important tool to get control over your device, Well here is the idea
Windows Phone 8 is more like application dependent platform, it is organized in strict way so if you want to watch video you will have to check in (Music + Video section/Hub) where you will find your videos and Music.
Same thing is true for images you have to watch your images in photo section/Hub....for other kind of Documents like word or excel you will have to check in Microsoft Office..... there is no ability to check this files inside the folders from the phone........... in general you can't see the folders unless you connect your phone to a computer......... every thing should be kept in its place images in Photo folder, ringtones should be in ringtone folder and so on.
So If you want to create another folders for special images other than photo folder Windows Phone 8 will not be able to see them !!!!
This is not smart at all
So what about non supported files or files there is no application to open them ?
There is no way to open such files in your phone or view them weather this file was image, video or what ever else.
In general people long time back requested Microsoft for file manager, but Microsoft simply not responding and ignoring that requests.
2- Control ringtone and media volume separately
This is another big problem.......... for example at night if you turned the phone ringer silent and you want to listen to some music you will not be able to do so in Windows Phone 8 smart phone .........cause if you turn phone ringer silent ....every thing will turned silent music , video ....every thing......Good thinking Microsoft.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3- Web Browser: Windows Phone 8 use Internet explorer 10 as default web browser and in general there is very few web browsers available in the market.
back to internet explorer there is only refresh button available in the browser no stop or going forward or back....... it is really bad experience to browse the web with Internet explorer.
More than that try to visit a web site with drop down list and select any thing , you will find the drop down list and you will be able to select what ever you want but that will make no different and the system will not respond to what you have selected...really disappointing .
4- Phone dailer: In general Phone book and Phone dailer one of the things I like about this OS it is really unique but it is missing some features like smart dailing & call duration in call History, long press on a contact name will offer two options delete the item from call history or block that name, no other options to send a message or MMS you have to dig inside to get this options.
5- Install XAP Files without SD Card: In Android for example you can install APK files in any Android phone (you can download any Application from any non google markets and install it offline without the need for internet connection by downloading APK files) but the equivalent of APK file in Windows Phone 8 is XAP file and it can be installed only in a handset with SD card support !!!!
Devices like Nokia Lumia 1020 or 920 is not able to install XAP files where in low end device like Nokia Lumia 520 you can do that !!!!
What a nice thing.
To be continue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seeing as you complain about the file manager and not being able to install XAPs directly but can do that on Android, why don't you try doing that on iOS? Should be easy right? Microsoft hates you after all. They don't want you to do anything on your Nokia 3310 with a touchscreen and a camera.
1- No File Manager in Windows Phone 8
The file manager is an important tool to get control over your device, Well here is the idea
Windows Phone 8 is more like application dependent platform, it is organized in strict way so if you want to watch video you will have to check in (Music + Video section/Hub) where you will find your videos and Music.
Same thing is true for images you have to watch your images in photo section/Hub....for other kind of Documents like word or excel you will have to check in Microsoft Office..... there is no ability to check this files inside the folders from the phone........... in general you can't see the folders unless you connect your phone to a computer......... every thing should be kept in its place images in Photo folder, ringtones should be in ringtone folder and so on.
So If you want to create another folders for special images other than photo folder Windows Phone 8 will not be able to see them !!!!
This is not smart at all
So what about non supported files or files there is no application to open them ?
There is no way to open such files in your phone or view them weather this file was image, video or what ever else.
In general people long time back requested Microsoft for file manager, but Microsoft simply not responding and ignoring that requests.
2- Control ringtone and media volume separately
This is another big problem.......... for example at night if you turned the phone ringer silent and you want to listen to some music you will not be able to do so in Windows Phone 8 smart phone .........cause if you turn phone ringer silent ....every thing will turned silent music , video ....every thing......Good thinking Microsoft.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
3- Web Browser: Windows Phone 8 use Internet explorer 10 as default web browser and in general there is very few web browsers available in the market.
back to internet explorer there is only refresh button available in the browser no stop or going forward or back....... it is really bad experience to browse the web with Internet explorer.
More than that try to visit a web site with drop down list and select any thing , you will find the drop down list and you will be able to select what ever you want but that will make no different and the system will not respond to what you have selected...really disappointing .
4- Phone dailer: In general Phone book and Phone dailer one of the things I like about this OS it is really unique but it is missing some features like smart dailing & call duration in call History, long press on a contact name will offer two options delete the item from call history or block that name, no other options to send a message or MMS you have to dig inside to get this options.
5- Install XAP Files without SD Card: In Android for example you can install APK files in any Android phone (you can download any Application from any non google markets and install it offline without the need for internet connection by downloading APK files) but the equivalent of APK file in Windows Phone 8 is XAP file and it can be installed only in a handset with SD card support !!!!
Devices like Nokia Lumia 1020 or 920 is not able to install XAP files where in low end device like Nokia Lumia 520 you can do that !!!!
What a nice thing.
To be continue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i totally agree...
iOS have Jailbrake,Android have Root...what have WP ?
To end all discussion about the negative points of Windows Phone 8, I'm going to invalidate the issues some people (including me for some time) were having with the WP8 OS (WARNING SOME CRITICS ARE STILL IN EFFECT IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN INTEROP UNLOCKED ATIV S):
- No decent free YouTube App : Not anymore, the official YouTube app has been revived, download here
- No File Manager : Not anymore (interop unlocked phones only) : download here
- No MKV support : there are apps out there (mostly paid apps like YxPlayer WP8, Moliplayer Pro and Best Player) which do support MKV. You might argue that these apps are not free and so the critic is still in effect, but VLC for WP8 (see Kickstarter : news update 10, all the way down the article) is coming, so no your argument is invalid.
- Manufacturer exclusive apps : one word proxy
- no customization whatsoever 20 tile colors and one lockscreen picture : SamWP8 (interop unlocked phones only) of -W_O_L_F- allows custom tile colors and there are lockscreen apps which allow to display weather information on the lockscreen (free ones like Bing Weather and MoWeather HD (which I can't install in English, keeps on installing in Chinese) and also paid apps like Weather Flow, Amazing Weather HD and WeatherSense. You might argue that you can't have widgets on your lockscreen like in Android : Lockmix, your argument is invalid.
- No Task manager : Close button in multitask menu since GDR3
- No Live Tile clock because of refresh frequency limitations by Microsoft : Sideloading TimeMe works perfectly, updates each minute (store version updates each 40 minutes).
- Windows Phone 8 SDK only for Windows 8 : Not anymore, Tutorial: Install Windows Phone 8 SDK on Windows 7 the Easy Way by compu829
- Lack of official apps, mostly web links (eg YouTube) : Vine has been released, Instagram will probably follow (it's from the same company), Facebook beta is becoming pretty decent, Twitter has an official app, YouTube has been revived (see first point), Foursquare has an official app and there are pretty decent free third party apps out there for apps who don't have an official version yet (like 9gag, instagram and others, most great apps were made by Rudy Huyn)
There are some critics which I admit are bothering even me and I can't invalidate them at the moment, these are :
- Windows Marketplace isn't as great as the other marketplaces (like Apple Store and Google Play), but it's growing (Rome wasn't build in a day, you know ) : many paid apps which should be free because they are too insignificant to ask money for (eg a Wallpaper app) but there are still some great store deals and even paid apps become free for a day (to keep you updated with these deals, install these three apps)
- Update rollout takes too long time to complete in some places, despite the name GDR (General Distribution Release). I still didn't received the GDR2 update here in Belgium/Western Europe (except for Germany and the UK) through the Phone Updates on my Ativ S itself, I had to flash it manually.
- No competition on hardware specs, all is specified by Microsoft. I hope the introduction of quad-core CPU's (like the Snapdragon 800 in the Lumia 1520) will bring change on this aspect.
- Even small adjustments (like turning captive buttons off and changing the phones language and/or region) requires a reboot, where on other OS's they don't.
- Keyboard language suggestions pack downloads itself in the Phone Updates, won't start automatic, requires reboot + requires migration of settings/data (takes about 15 minutes). On other OS's this is a simple download.
- Nokia has too big of a market share to attract other manufacturers, Nokia is also a privileged manufacturer (definitely after the Microsoft-Nokia deal took place) making fair competition almost impossible.
- Windows Phone and Microsoft have a problem recognizing minorities, Spotlight in Flanders (Dutch speaking part of Belgium) is French, how dare they .
aSpirit81 said:
i totally agree...
iOS have Jailbrake,Android have Root...what have WP ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respect everyone's opinions. I used to be an iphone user from 2g to 4. Went to android, now I have a lumia 1020.
I had jailbrake on my iphones because I wanted my phones to do more useless things. I gained root on my android devices and flashed the heck out of them to make them cleaner and faster( who wants to wait 0.3 of a second more time to open a browser)
Personally I don't miss anything about my previous devices. The only thing missing (in my opinion) is making folders and putting games in one, apps in other e.t.c. and the ability of someone sending me an app via mail or bluetooth, and manually installing it. Either way , I am very happy with my lumia 1020..... camera.
Edit: I DID IT! DRM is fixed...
Here we go: https://forum.xda-developers.com/xz...hack-mod-sony-xperia-xz-premium-twrp-t3695171
Hello forum community,
Hello developer,
Maybe you've read the last few weeks already that I am currently looking for a solution for the limitations after an unlocked bootloader. Previous solutions (DRM recovery by Tobias Waldvogel and others) unfortunately do not work, since various libraries and other system data have changed. Also in the TrustZone there are various changes, which lead to the fact that previous solutions no longer work.
For some time, I'm busy with the Sony system protection. Although I am very experienced in the field of reverse engineering, but unfortunately I have little experience with the procedure with Android systems, especially with Sony.
I would like to take the opportunity in this thread to exchange ideas with other users about the possible solutions. In order to better understand the connections and thus possibly find a gap in the system, it would be good if we share our knowledge about Sony DRM. What files might be patched, what dependencies exist, ...
It would be great if we could work together and maybe get a DRM fix for the XZ Premium.
Cheers!
To the moderators: I hope the thread is okay. If not, please just lightly hit the back of the head. Thank you!
Thanks for creating a thread for this. I have an interesting question. You may have looked a while back at the one thread with a working Google Camera build. Is there any idea as to why it worked? Maybe instead of fixing DRM, we can work around it.
cdnutter said:
Thanks for creating a thread for this. I have an interesting question. You may have looked a while back at the one thread with a working Google Camera build. Is there any idea as to why it worked? Maybe instead of fixing DRM, we can work around it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yepp, it's my own thread. The working Google camera is just a compensation for unlocked/rooted users. Because after you unlock/root your XZP, the camera doesn't work (green pictures). It's not working with full supported "specials" from Sony. The resolution of the images is smaller, too. The 3rd-party camera apps are using their own image processing and/or the API to the system camera. So with Google camera or other Apps, we can take pictures, but in relatively bad quality because the resolution for 3rd-party apps is locked by Sony. Other apps are using the system camera with a "light mode" of it. So they take pictures without special effects, but with the stock camera, so you have a green pic after your shot.
So... The big problem is: Without hacking/patching/fixing the Sony device security (DRM/TrustZone) we can not use the full features of the camera. I don't understand why Sony is so bad to their customers, because their "special camera algos" are absolutely not interesting to me. But it's really bad to lock down the whole camera (green pictures). If they would only lock their own algos, it would be absolutely okay (because otherwise other vendors could copie them). But Sony... No... That's not the way to hold customers at a company. If I unlock/root my phone, I want to use the hardware like i want to. And if I install my own camera app with own functions, I don't need the Sony algos. The pictures would be nice, too. I think that's the reason why Sony did that on XZP...
My idea a few days ago was that we could try to port other camera to the stock XZP firmware. Something like Snapdragon Camera (used in AndroPlus AICP for XZP). But my knowledge about that is to bad. I did a few things to test something like that, but everything I tried crashed. I think we would need to patch the driver, libraries, cameraserver and other binary to get a full unlocked camera, that works without Sony. I am a freak on Windows systems, web applications and PC software. But on Android I must pass if it goes to "hacks" like these... sorry.
But... okay... let's find a way to "crack" that security (that's my passion on win/web)... anyway.
What I have been asking myself for some time is why Sony should make so many changes to the system on a single device. Other devices that have also been introduced to the market in this vehicle can be patched with the Tobias solution. If, therefore, Sony had made fundamental changes to the security of the devices, then theoretically all new devices would be affected.
I have compared the XZ Premium with the XZ and the XZs. I had to realize that different libraries and applications have changed. And that's the reason why the DRM fix doesn't work in it's form.
The binary file:
/system/bin/secd
The libraries in /system/lib/ :
- libcredential-manager-service.so
- libdevice_security.so
- libsuntory.so
The libraries in /system/lib64/ :
- libcredential-manager-service.so
- libdevice_security.so
- libsuntory.so
These are high relevant files for the device security in relation to Sony DRM. The "secd" uses "libsuntory" and checks if the keys are stored, active and legit.
The main differences I found, were...
- The secd was merged with other binaries. The old size was ~150 KB and in XZ Premium it's ~1130 KB. I think they merged other functions from old libraries to the file, because they did that to other files, too.
- The old secd uses libtee.so and the new one uses libQSEEComAPI.so. And that's the big problem I think.
I will try to patch the relevant files and test if it works. With modified libsuntory I was able zu manipulate the blob status from "generic error" to "blobs not found". So maybe there is a way to fix this.
Hahaha...
Nice job Sony! I patched the whole libsuntory.so to get "all fine here" everywhere (~300 patches in ONE f*** library!). On the half way it's working and I was really happy to be on the right way - I can manipulate the status of CKB. Buuuuuuuuuuut....
If I am right in my thinking, then Sony uses backup tests and checks if there is some "huj huj huj" (you would laugh... that's really literally there in the functions) ongoing on the phone. So there (maybe) are backup tests in the TrustZone and in other system files, too. And the annoying part is, that if the system recognizes manipulations in relation to the security, some things will be dropped in hidden zones. After that the HUK is f*** up and the camera shows the typical "camera is used by another application" error. Funny is: Also the Google camera doesn't work anymore (green pics... hahaha). The only way to fix it, is flashing the system partition. Simply restore the original files doesn't work.
But... okay... That would have been tooooo easy. So let's check some other files, too. It's almost weekend and I think there will be a bit more time for some crazy things like this.
Why are you all so quiet?
Well, I've wanted to reply but didn't wanna clutter the thread since I can't help. Just know that you're amazing for putting your time on this and I love reading what you post.
You can absolutely count on me to donate if that's any motivation .
I'm not a dev so I have nothing useful to add, but I'm keeping my eye on this thread. Great work so far!
Whats required is someone to take lead and to distribute work. Create a list of possible avenues or things to look in to and let folk who have the ability to see whats going on then use that list to support the project.
sToRm// said:
Maybe you've read the last few weeks already that I am currently looking for a solution for the limitations after an unlocked bootloader. Previous solutions (DRM recovery by Tobias Waldvogel and others) unfortunately do not work, since various libraries and other system data have changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might want to check the actual more recent one tbh.
You still need a root exploit for TA backup in the first place (and the lesser kernel being 4.4.21, it's not exactly a cakewalk), but still
mirhl said:
You might want to check the actual more recent one tbh.
You still need a root exploit for TA backup in the first place (and the lesser kernel being 4.4.21, it's not exactly a cakewalk), but still
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My goal is to find a solution for already unlocked/rooted users (like me). A backup of the TA is useless, if the BL was unlocked before. So we have to find a way to simulate the key(s) or to crack the device security and gain uncontrolled access to functions in the TZ. Would be really nice if we could find a way to get temp root on unlocked devices, to dump the TA and get the original keys to mount them later. But there are a lot of users that have already unlocked.
Oh I see what you mean here. A noCD instead of emulating protection.
I hope you'll release as much info as possible ?
sToRm// said:
A backup of the TA is useless, if the BL was unlocked before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, why useless? All pre xzp devices was able to restore device to the lock state the same one like it was never unlocked. But xzp have that thing diferent?
munjeni said:
Wait, why useless? All pre xzp devices was able to restore device to the lock state the same one like it was never unlocked. But xzp have that thing diferent?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said, if the bootloader has been unlocked already there's no point in backing up TA as the keys are already gone.
FartyParty said:
He said, if the bootloader has been unlocked already there's no point in backing up TA as the keys are already gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeeeeepp... So, why should I backup the TA and mount it if the key is already gone? If the key would be stored on a place somewhere and unlocking the bootloader would only effect that this place is inaccessable, then a relock, export and mount of the TA would be interesting for already rooted users. But if there is no key in the backed TA, mount it is useless. That's what I mean. I want to find a way to get the device thinking there is a valid key in the TA. Maybe it's possible with patching some system files.
@all
Is there somebody with a locked XZ Premium?
I would need a /system/build.prop file from an untouched phone. with working keys.
A friend wants to buy the XZP, too. Maybe I can get her phone to do some research on a unlocked system. I only have to persuade her :laugh:
This is from G8141_Customized CE1_1308-5321_45.0.A.1.229_R6A -> https://pastebin.com/J2qCCmpM I don't think there is something changed in case lock <-> unlock because of the dmverity!
The device key is used to decrypt credentials for various Sony apps. On older Sony phones (e.g. Z3C), there is over 200 credentials. While the device key is device specific, these credentials are not. The drm fix works by hardcoding these credentials and hooking the function to return them when they are requested. The original function would fail to get the credentials because the device key is missing.
Maybe Sony changed these credentials / added additional ones and that's why the drm fix is not working anymore.
Hi, I have a locked, untouched phone, happy to help, can I get the build.prop file?
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0BzEmiGcuf7IiRnVURVoxaFQyaUk&export=download
This one is from an unlocked G8141 running 45.0.A.7.120 (in the case, there might be any differences to munjeni's version).
The reason why I asked for the build.prop is, that there are some properties which are checked in the secd. When I change them, the FIDO_KEY and ATTEST_KEY change from "Not provisioned" to "Provisioned" in the service menu.
Changed:
Code:
# FIDO key provision state and version
persist.keyprovd.fido.prov=false
persist.keyprovd.fido.version=0
# Attestation Key provision state and version
persist.keyprovd.attest.prov=false
persist.keyprovd.attest.version=0
# Suntory BLOBs have been processing state
persist.keyprovd.suntory.prov=false
to:
Code:
# FIDO key provision state and version
persist.keyprovd.fido.prov=1
persist.keyprovd.fido.version=0
# Attestation Key provision state and version
persist.keyprovd.attest.prov=1
persist.keyprovd.attest.version=0
# Suntory BLOBs have been processing state
persist.keyprovd.suntory.prov=1
Strange...
Hook the send function in credmgr and log the calls which have the first int of the buffer as 1. That's how the cred request worked in earlier versions. Would be interesting to see what's sent back.