Related
I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm
cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
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Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
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Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
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No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
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Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
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The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
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I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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Click to collapse
Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.
gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
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Click to collapse
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
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Click to collapse
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
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Click to collapse
I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!
I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
rex-tc said:
I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"
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****ty deal... I wonder how much software it will take to make it speedy gonzales
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
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ouch well put??? lol
dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
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Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.
Nado85 said:
Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.
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Click to collapse
Both the Ipad2 and the Odroid run at higher resolutions than the Atrix, that should make them worse, not better off.
The Xoom is ~30% larger than the ipad2, but that is not enough to explain why the ipad2 is 4 times better
The Odroid is again larger than the Xoom, and that performes 3 times better than the Xoom.
dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
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Click to collapse
you know what this points out? That people are VERY stupid and care too much about upcoming technology! Everything people buy ends up being obsolete in about a week or two. Its REALLY sad to see this because these software developers put a lot of time for something that will only be hot for a few weeks and then its yesterdays news. That's why software is getting choppier, and there is no quality backing anymore.
Aside from my *****ing...i do like how that Samsung platform works..quite impressive, i'd like to see what Nvidia will do next. These new technologies have been pushed mad crazy this last year. I think quality and reliability will take a hit quite hard due to the silicon being pushed to the limit of its threshold...we're not too far from that.
Mafisometal said:
... I think quality and reliability will take a hit quite hard due to the silicon being pushed to the limit of its threshold...we're not too far from that.
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Silicone has a long way to go before it max'es out. The good news is Nvidia has years of quality GPU fabbing and they've got loads of tricks up their sleeves yet.
What Samsung and Qualcomm dont have right now is games & software optimised for their chipsets. This is where the Tegra II is a step a head of the rest..
So don't stress peoples!
tadjiik said:
Both the Ipad2 and the Odroid run at higher resolutions than the Atrix, that should make them worse, not better off..
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Also, the Atrix is also running Android 2.2, where as the Odroid is on 2.3 which is optimised for dual core CPU's.....
We will all see a big difference when Moto release 2.3 / 2.4 for the Atrix.
I can confirm the SGX540 (iphone 4 graphics processor) beast tegra 2. i know the resolution is lower, however the smoothness and especially quick scrolling on jam packed websites like non moble youtube for example show its smoother.
i have not done a bench yet. i am more than happy with my atrix. actaully i just got an amd zacate fusion e350 and its on part with my atrix dual core yet eats 18watts. actaully, the atrix plays less choppy than the zacate.
however, its not as fast 'yet' as the sxg540 and OMG i bet the SGX543 is awesome.
The iPhone 5 had a higher resolution then the atrix, yet scored 15-16 fps in tests where the atrix gets 48-50. The tegra 2 I'd very future proof for s few.months especially considering that man manufacturers are still making single core phones.
To see what optimization can do. Download fruit slice, and compare it to fruit ninja tegra HD.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
The iPhone 5 had a higher resolution then the atrix, yet scored 15-16 fps in tests where the atrix gets 48-50. The tegra 2 I'd very future proof for s few.months especially considering that man manufacturers are still making single core phones.
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Are you refering to the iphone4 here? That has a SGX535, which is worse than Tegra2, that is correct. But it is still not beating SGX540 (Samsung galaxy s), they seem to be about on par, according to glbenchmark.com. If you were refering to the ipad2, that beats tegra2 in just about anything.
To see what optimization can do. Download fruit slice, and compare it to fruit ninja tegra HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what proof do you have that those games are not able to play on non-tegra phones or (more likely) could be optimized just as well or better for non-tegra phones? Throwing up a game that has not really been tested on non-tegra phones does not prove anything.
To throw the ball back, if you want to see what optimizations can do for Exynos do a search for "engadget exynos gdc", which has a 1080p 3D demo @60 fps (I am unable to post links...)
lol nice try.
oh and "your devices"? I like how you assume I'm an apple fanboy when I'm actually a die-hard android user... i HAVE an atrix, a nexus S, a nexus one. What phones do you have? and the benchmark scores I posted were all between android devices so I'm not sure where you're seeing these "awesome scores" for the ipad?
come back when you actually have something to contribute.
Nado85 said:
Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rex-tc said:
I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really need to wait for benchmarks on the EVO 3D to come out.
And you really need to see a finalized and optimized (Driver wise) S2.
To make a fair comparison.
dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best. The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2. Which means higher res textures and with the better CPU better physics with PhysX. SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces. When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail. Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.
in the paper,,tegra 2 should be the weakest among them..
in fact, on the test, tegra 2 is not fall behind.
i still think exynos, a5, c2 snapdragon's performance will be better than tegra2, just the matter of time.
well, tegra2 is good enough. but tegra3 and tegra4 are the ones that take the lead.
Well until those "CPU centric" games you're talking about actually come out, the only thing we can compare it to is what's out there right now. If you want to see the Tegra 2 get shamed by the iPad 2's SGX543... http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
rex-tc said:
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best. The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2. Which means higher res textures and with the better CPU better physics with PhysX. SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces. When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail. Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rex-tc said:
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tests are comprehensive and test different parts of the chip/driver. There is a few "real-life" tests, as well as a bunch of synthetic tests.
The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, so the "productivity" tests do prove something Well, I belive the ipad is clocked somewhat lower than T2, so no real surprise there. Trying to differentiate between different Dual-A9 cores might be hard, though, since they are all based on the same design. The only thing I could see Tegra2 had donewas the inclusion of a hardware JPEG decoder on the Tegra2, that might skew the productivity tests a little. On the other hand, they are not including NEON, so for tests that include that, they might be at a loss.
SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you even know what a tile renderer is? It is not "faking" what a true "T&L engine" produces, it is about not doing rasterization and fragment processing until frames are swapped, thus enabling the use of only a small render buffer (a tile). The only thing it "fakes" is that overdrawn pixels are not fragment processed - but this is also done on non-tilebased to a lesser degree (with early-Z).
By the way, "T&L engine"? There is no hardware "T&L engine" anymore - all is done through shaders nowadays.
When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we are talking CPU centric, then Tegra2 will be at a loss because of its lack of NEON (which I belive Exynos supports). I am not sure if the Apple has it, but that is still comparing apples and oranges (different OS) when it comes to benchmarks.
Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you point me to the toolset? When I googled "tegra2 toolset", this post was the first...
Are we seeing PC ports? Could you mention some names/examples? Any reason why they will not run on non-tegra2?
SlimJ87D said:
You really need to wait for benchmarks on the EVO 3D to come out.
And you really need to see a finalized and optimized (Driver wise) S2.
To make a fair comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no no it's important to cherry-pick and declare victory as soon as possible.
I think people need to wait for release of the actual phones before comparing, I mean htc havnt even announced the pyramid an people think its crap because of its in development benchmark, of course scores are going to be crap if its still in development?
Sent from my thumbs
Hi,
since at this point it is unknown whatever updated 10.1 will still run on Tegra 2 or something else (Exynos 4201) I would appreciate your opinion on this matter.
What do you think will be inside?
If two versions will be available which one will you buy?
Of you hear any thing new in this subject - please post here.
Since Tegra 2 has some limitations (video playback) I personally hope it will run on Samsung's own SoC, will play all video formats and divix/xivid with DLNA and playback from SD will work beautifully.
I have an issue with Sammy using their own chip for one reason. When every other phone was running a Qualcomm chip and the Galaxy phones were using Hummingbird chips, there was some optimization in the android code that was not included for Samsung chips.
Since Honeycomb has been built around the Tegra 2 chip, I fear the same thing will happen.
Don't believe HC was built around Tegra2...hence the reason for no Dual-Core spec requirement. Hell, it's up and running on devices of all sorts as we speak.
I want Tegra games more than support for h.264 high profile video playback.
So, I want Tegra
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
If you want games you should wait for a SONY tablet ;-)
Why do you assume that it will have a worse performance in games than Tegra 2?
I think that it will be better than T2 in both cases.
BTW: thera are gossips of new Moto tablet coming out around fall with T3 (QUad core Tegra) inside...
galtom said:
If you want games you should wait for a SONY tablet ;-)
Why do you assume that it will have a worse performance in games than Tegra 2?
I think that it will be better than T2 in both cases.
BTW: thera are gossips of new Moto tablet coming out around fall with T3 (QUad core Tegra) inside...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming he's talking about the PS3 and TegraZone games that require a Tegra chip. Other chips could probably play them, but think Nvidia has it so they look specifically for the Tegra chip.
Not that gaming is my main priority, but I saw all those "Tegra optimized" games on the Tegra Zone.
They are all nice games
It will be sucks if they don't perform as expected on non-Tegra tablet.
Because as I said, I could care less with that H.264 high profile. I can still "convert" them or stream (via future app ala AirPlay on iOS).
galtom said:
If you want games you should wait for a SONY tablet ;-)
Why do you assume that it will have a worse performance in games than Tegra 2?
I think that it will be better than T2 in both cases.
BTW: thera are gossips of new Moto tablet coming out around fall with T3 (QUad core Tegra) inside...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by this summer, tegra2 will be one and half years old since announced, and tegra3 will be only half year away
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
More than likely, Samsungs SoC will be nearly identical to the Ipad 2's A5 SoC, which has already shown to be several times faster in the gfx department vs a Tegra 2.
Also, the Tegra 2 is missing the NEON optimizations in most other A9 SoC's.
So I put my vote toward Samsung's SoC.
gururise said:
More than likely, Samsungs SoC will be nearly identical to the Ipad 2's A5 SoC, which has already shown to be several times faster in the gfx department vs a Tegra 2.
Also, the Tegra 2 is missing the NEON optimizations in most other A9 SoC's.
So I put my vote toward Samsung's SoC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But like all great hardware, it's only as good as the software it runs. I'd rather have the Tegra if it has exclusive content or specialized support from Google.
Bandage said:
Don't believe HC was built around Tegra2...hence the reason for no Dual-Core spec requirement. Hell, it's up and running on devices of all sorts as we speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There were news reports that Google was going to make Tegra 2 the reference platform for Honeycomb but that never happened. Now it looks like Google is working with LG to come out with a Nexus tablet this summer so it'll be interesting to see what they are putting in that.
Personally I hope Samsung steers clear of Tegra 2 and goes with their own SoC.
Isn't LG already releasing the G-Slate? Are they gonna release another one in the summer? Thats just not a great strategy me thinks.
In sweden there is now a IT fair called Dustin Expo, and one off or bigger computer sites reported that Samsung not going to use Tegra2 like the other manufacturers.
They will use there own dual-core ( probably Exynos ) and Adeno 220.
Starts on 2min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ggUXvZnbM8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Looking forward to hear from Samsung whats up, and what spec the 8.9" will have and some reviews on how good there skinn on HC is.
The hardware that Samsung is about to release i really like, but they sucks on software updates and improve the products thay have released. So should i get the big and heavy xoom whit updates or the light and sleek Samsung without support
There is also Asus Transformer to choose from.
bd85 said:
The hardware that Samsung is about to release i really like, but they sucks on software updates and improve the products thay have released. So should i get the big and heavy xoom whit updates or the light and sleek Samsung without support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Besides Touchwiz, I say it depends on how you're going to use it. If I decide to get a tablet, it'll most likely be the new Galaxy Tab because (I'm going to assume here) that it'll most likely play any video and audio format I throw at it. I think that's the big difference (codecs) between the two as of now besides Touchwiz.
bd85 said:
In sweden there is now a IT fair called Dustin Expo, and one off or bigger computer sites reported that Samsung not going to use Tegra2 like the other manufacturers.
They will use there own dual-core ( probably Exynos ) and Adeno 220.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If true that would be the best news of the current tablet season as Tegra 2 sucks BIG TIME!
I would also want to know.... how close in design is Apple A5 (the one in iPad 2) by Samsung to Exynos by Samsung
I wouldn't mind if it had their proprietary SoC as what really matters in these tablets is the GPU. It seems the T2 chipset is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth despite not being heavily utilized yet. If Samsung is pairing with the Adreno 220 then that's better than the Tegra 2.
bd85 said:
In sweden there is now a IT fair called Dustin Expo, and one off or bigger computer sites reported that Samsung not going to use Tegra2 like the other manufacturers.
They will use there own dual-core ( probably Exynos ) and Adeno 220.
Starts on 2min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ggUXvZnbM8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Looking forward to hear from Samsung whats up, and what spec the 8.9" will have and some reviews on how good there skinn on HC is.
The hardware that Samsung is about to release i really like, but they sucks on software updates and improve the products thay have released. So should i get the big and heavy xoom whit updates or the light and sleek Samsung without support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they add an adreno 220, when a Mali-400 would be a lot better? Seems like an odd choice to me. Also that prototype is running Tegra 2(assuming it's the same device that's been shown off at other venues).
Maybe we'll see the Adreno 220s on the SGSII as well?
Wasn't the prototype just a 10.1v?
@Toss3
Presumably, the SGS2 will be equipped the dual-core Exynos clocked at 1.2GHz. I say "presumably" because, just like now, Samsung hasn't revealed the true name of the processor, only the clock speed.
Oddly enough, there will also be a Tegra 2 version of the SGS2.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/06/...ayed-until-may-o/&category=classic&postPage=1
Well i see lot of games coming for tegra this year
most of them for tegra 3
it really disappoints me
well somepoint iwill get the prime iguess in around 4 months in my birthday but until anyone has an idea if maybe a driver like chainfire could unabla tegra 3 on tegra 2
well iknow its not logic but you know like with chainfire that you can reduce texture quallity
(sorry for my really bad english XD)
well i have no idea what you asked
He wants to know if you can play tegra 3 games on a tegra 2 device.
Sent from my X10a using The Force
seems like what he is saying is that a lot of the newer games that have been announced have only been for tegra 3. but take shadowgun for example it was only soposed to be tegra 2 but later was given versions for otehr less powerfull chipsets. so i assue newer games will be announced for tegra 3 but after a month sor so there will be a tegra 2 version so not to worry. also im sure chainfire wil get right on it once more tegra 3 devices and games are out
I am guessing......
....and I could be wrong. That he is hoping that someone can wave a magic wand on all the new "Tegra 3 only" game titles (whatever they may be) and make them compatible with Tegra 2.
I believe, he thinks that Tegra 3 is driver related and not architecture change and therefore unlockable, like reducing the graphics settings on a new game to minimum so it plays on an old graphics card.
Sorry if that is not what you are thinking Hearmeman. Pure assumption on my part. Google "Differences between Tegra 2 and Tegra 3" and you will see it's not just graphics.
Well
about the architecture
i guess you can use qualcomm drivers and mali drivers on tegra 2
i cant any problems with tegra 3
i do know the chipset is changed
iguess chainfire will release a driver that allows that
Hehe, I'm down to 0 game on my TF. I guess I'm not as enthusiastic about tegra 3 as I should because I'm not a gamer.
Expect THD versions for Tegra 3 and then they will be adapted and the hardware restrictions will be lowered and given to other devices.
If a game was natively meant for Tegra 3, I wouldn't expect to see it on anything less than a Tegra 2 because then the developer would have to lower the game quality so much that it would insult how the game was meant to be played.
dont you think that they just can reduce texture or colors
it boost up the framerates
you see like in riptide they added motion blur and water splash nothing serious
im really looking forward to buy the prime the next few months but until then
Hmm, I must have been looking at other games, the ones I saw said they would be for T2 with enhanced versions for T3.
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I hear ya!!!
I really miss my Tegra goodness...
Many will say that by using this or using that you can make Tegra games run on non-tegra devices, and that's partially true, however true Tegra graphics are much better...
There are many shader effects missing on those non-tegra devices.
I would really love to see a Tegra based Note (even though I know that would never happen)...
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like most tegra 2 devices. I've used moto atrix, lg g2x, acer/toshiba tablets.
They just helping wuth androids biggest problem, fragmentation. This isnt a samsung processor issue, this is up to the developer. Think 360 vs ps3.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Tegra processors are usually on the low-end of available options.
Eg/
SGS: Exynos 3110 = 170
Droid2 : OMAP 3630 = 160
NexusOne: QSD 8250 = 130
HTC prototype: Tegra APX 650 = 100
SGS 2: Exynos 4210 = 140
Sensation XL: QSD 8255= 130
Optimus 3D: OMAP 4330 = 120
Atrix 4G: Tegra2 = 100
SGS 3: Exynos 4412 = 130
*OMAP Skipped Generation* = N/A
Optimus 4X: Tegra3 = 110
OneS: Krait S4-dual = 100
By having early and direct access to their own manufacturing facility, Samsung can develop chips that are slightly faster than the competition and produce them at lower costs.
Apple tends to strongarm the market with early business deals and access to manufacturing facilities too, though not on Samsung's scale. Fortunately for Apple, they don't need the fastest, they need "good enough" at the cheapest price. Since iOS will run faster than Android, due to better and direct optimizations, Apple's offerings can consequently be even faster than Samsung's.
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
I prefer Mali. So no.
Sent via carrier pigeon
Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to the GPU, Nvidia are using competitive offerings.
For instance, the one in Tegra 1 (APX 650) was top-tier in its era, but not the best.
This is forgivable as they were new to the mobile market.
With the Tegra2, nVidia did offer a great chip.
It was about on-par/higher than the SGX540... but it was surpassed with the new drivers and higher clocked SGX540 from OMAP4470. And not to mention the quadcore Mali-400 (SGS2) that embarassed it.
With the Tegra3, there's nothing new.
They offer a gpu that was better than their competitors, but the competitors are rolling out their new gpu. Qualcomm with their new Adreno. Samsung with the T604. Omap with the SGX544mp4. In fact the new A5X gpu is superior to the Tegra3 gpu. Don't forget about the PS Vita either.
here's an interesting article: http://blog.laptopmag.com/tablet-chip-showdown-nvidia-tegra-3-vs-the-new-ipads-a5x
Soon, Tegra3 will be a "mid-entry" SoC, or even a "low-mid" one.
The only advantage the Tegra chips have is the TegraZone. Deeper integration of the software to the gpu, that's how nVidia levels the field.
So you are in fact incorrect. They don't blow the competition out of the water!
They fragment the competition, which I believe is wrong. I think that either nVidia must try harder (they're a friggin graphics company!!!) or that the TegraZone enhancements should be in the AOSP and give all competitors a chance to provide the best software (drivers producing, kernels processing, roms consuming) for their hardware.
With greater competition, the consumers win.
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
pboesboes said:
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1,000,000 to this!
Tegra - no thank you!
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was Tegra 2. Tegra 3 on the HtC one x and Asus transformer prime flies.
So the myth that Tegra is slow has been shown by Tegra 3
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
violentgoomba said:
I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Riptide GP...Samurai 2 THD, Shadowgun Tegra 3, Fruit Ninja THD, Bang bang racing Thd...i think are pretty good titles and offrr significant enhancements over the non thd versions.
I love my Note...but I do have to admit that a One X with the Tegra 3 has more game support and is faster.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
nvidia is a GFX Company. They'll pay for people develop stuff for their products.
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
blue13x said:
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few Samsungs run Tegras - they have piss poor performance, abysmal video decoding capability, etc. See Tab 10.1 as an example - the tegra2 in that is a POS compared to Exynos4.
NVidia is always first to up the core count but always delivers poor performance per core.
Similarly, the Exynos 4412 smokes the Tegra 3 when total system performance is taken into account.
It's kind of odd that the SoC that comes from a company whose specialty is GPUs is the worst in terms of 2D video performance (codec support) and average at best for 3D.
On top of that they use some funky texture compression format not compatible with anything else unless you use Chainfire 3D.
mdrjr said:
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The gpu in the Tegra 3 is slightly superior to the quadcore Mali-400, not a huge stretch.
But each "generation" nVidia have been the the inferior products, especially in the graphics components (irony?). However, they offset this because they're first to market.
mdrjr said:
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly right.
Its about the entire offering software AND hardware optimization, not one without the other.
I rather have a 1GB RAM and Tegra2 rather than 2GB RAM and Exynos 4410... just as long as the software is optimized (for instance, lower-level API support using Qt and Mainline Linux.... compared to higher-order virtual engine running on a inferior kernel).
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
tegra gets no love nowadays
Darfus said:
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Rayan said:
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus it requires rooting. I prefer the support right out of the box.
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