Database Users

Motorola Legally Have To Give Us Control

does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv

The short answer is No, they don't.
While they basically have no recourse if we do root their devices, they have no obligation to allow us to do so. Also they (the manf.) have evry right to put protections in place to attempt to not allow thier devices to be rooted.

frycook15 said:
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was, um.... interesting. I had no this issue had reached a legal victory. I think it just means you can do whatever you want on your own hardware and share it with others without fear of legal reprise. Doesnt mean Moto's going to suddenly set up a how to on root on their website.

No. They also do not have to fix your phone even if you rooted it and that is terms for voiding the contract.
All this did was confirm people have property rights.

Motorola legally don't have to give us control, the article is stated that as a consumer you can do what ever you want with your phone expect for illegal action that wont result in a lawsuit by the Company because you modified their device that is now yours.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I would say this more or less only affects people who root/JB phones (people like the iPhone dev-team, who actually release tools/methods of rooting/JB'ing). The common jailbreaker/rooter isn't going to actually get sued over it. People who make tools that allow everyone else to, may actually get sued (which now they can't?). =p

AaronsDarts said:
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

omnifox said:
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.

I dont see why phone manufacturers think they have the right to lock us down and dictate what software we can run on the phone. We purchase the phone for $500-600, its legally ours. I should be able to run any OS or software on it that I choose to. Nobody dictates what software or OS I can or can't run on my desktop computer, and if they did try to, the Justice Dept or the EU would be all over them like a cheap suit suing them and fining them like crazy. So where do these phone manf's get the gall to do it??
I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against one phone manufacturer. It would scare others in to backing off this assanine behavior.

omnifox said:
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...

I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business

FtL1776 said:
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that a locked bootloader doesn't prevent you from taking the framework and other files OFF of the phone, just prevents you from putting a custom ROM ON the phone.
There are some devs working on extracting blur pieces, but from what I've read so far, it's pretty inter-twined, much like HTC's Sense framework.
Yes, I know that Motorola has 'Said' the bootloader is locked to protect their IP, and that VZW has nothing to do with it. And of course, we all read this on the internet, so it must be true.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that Moto has self interests in mind here as well. But to think that VZW doesn't have an 'opinion' on this is just plain naive. I'll give you three guesses (and the first two won't count) as to whether the official VZW froyo release has wi-fi tethering included, or if it's been disabled.

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cbaty08 said:
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is there right to produce the phone to their specs. If you don't like the software or their configuration, don't buy it. The marketplace rules here. When/if enough people care about this issue (and I hate to say it, but people like us are a vocal minority in the large picture of phone buyers), then it will change. So long as you voluntarily pay the money, don't expect any them to do any different. Did they not say exactly that in regards to this issue? I Believe the quote was something to effect of 'buy a different phone if you want to load custom roms.'

sp1kez said:
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.

Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd pay the full price of the phone up front if that meant no contract + lower monthly bill. However none of the major US carriers offer that option except for t-mobile.

Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App

xmunk said:
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon won't give you a lower monthly bill...

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is with people and this stupid mental disorder of "get the government involved," crap, specifically when you cite the wrong bureaucracy shows that you're a moron.
As the ruling has said, what happens on the phone once you jailbreak it, as long as it is received legally, there is no crime committed, preventing you from jail breaking is not illegal and never should be, seriously you have to be a retard if you believe the government should be involved in stopping how programs are coded and locked, if Verizon doesn't want you to be tethering without you paying them for that, that is THEIR right, it's their property.

G2 rootkit, prevents any permenant modification.

Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot

Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.

Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.

Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.

i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.

funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.

byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.

devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.

I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.

if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons

But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.

Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!

Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?

im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol

PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).

Oops 10chars

HTC rocks!!!!!!!

Steve Jobs' comments about Android

Just saw this on 9to5mac...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hUQVIqjkzD4
And while I don't agree with everything he has to say, I agree with some of his points - it's close to the same argument of windows vs. os x. I love my Evo, Android and Sense, but $58 bucks a month for tons more services with Sprint is a big factor in that love.

He had valid points, lol, yeah android still needs to get all thee phones pushing the same software, but its still ever changing , but when it happens, they will trump iphone
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!

I could care less what Steve B-jobs has to say.

So what he's saying is people are sheep. Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.

I'm very happy with my fragmented OS, besides i use roms from DEV's on this site, mainly due to they actually listen to what's going on with the rom's they develop and they figure out a fix for it asap, try seeing how long it takes for a Corp. DEV such as HTC or Google to listen to you and fix your issue. I'd much rather have my custom rom that Just Works versus having the exact same OS as "x" numbers who all have the same OS and still can't change their own battery without mailing their device in or without having to go to a corporate store.
Steve your still a Joke.

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People sheeps..look at trends. Wait, trends are sheep people.
Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what business is about. You want users to be able to repeat your advertisements, or chants. Why do you think they create slogans? Off the top of your head i bet you can say the McDonalds slogan. Now Walmart. What the point is, is that you want the people to be able to follow your products. It is about business.

tomh1979 said:
I'm very happy with my fragmented OS, besides i use roms from DEV's on this site, mainly due to they actually listen to what's going on with the rom's they develop and they figure out a fix for it asap, try seeing how long it takes for a Corp. DEV such as HTC or Google to listen to you and fix your issue. I'd much rather have my custom rom that Just Works versus having the exact same OS as "x" numbers who all have the same OS and still can't change their own battery without mailing their device in or without having to go to a corporate store.
Steve your still a Joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny because I love Macs. I have an iMac, iPad, iPod nano and my wife has an iPod Touch. I've had every iPhone except for the iPhone 4. I love most Apple products. But switched to android when the Nexus One came back and haven't considered switching back to the iPhone since.
Android is a much more robust OS. You can do pretty much anything you want to do. And the average consumer doesn't know or care about fragmentation. They see it as, 'hey, I want a smaller phone (Incredible) or I want a larger screen (EVO, X).' And even then, all those devices have 2.2 on it so there is no fragmentation. Steve Jobs needs to get more informed. He's likely never even used Android and is just spewing irrelevant and incorrect statements.

TwitterDeck.
http://goo.gl/ze3O

Id rather not have all Android Devices pushing the same exact thing (ex: interface). I like how it is, because dev wise, it brings a lot more excitement. Every time I go from cyanogenmod to Sense, it feels as if I just got a new phone, I like having that feeling.

dwd3885 said:
He's likely never even used Android and is just spewing irrelevant and incorrect statements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He probably uses one every day.

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of like the people who buy Android tee shirts pissing on a Apple logo? Brand loyalty (sheep as you call them) exists everywhere and it's not limited to Apple. We/I can point out a bunch of in denial Android/EVO fanboys on just this forum to prove it.
Fragmentation is a problem. It's not about having a wide variety of phones (because that's a good thing); it's about the variety causing troubles for developers, even Google them selves. If I get a new current iPhone, it's pretty much guaranteed that it'll run iOS smoothly and as intended for about two years. It's the same deal with third party apps. On Android though, you can buy a new current phone that 1) doesn't run the latest version of Android and may never will, 2) doesn't run Android smoothly because it can't possibly be optimized for all hardware, 3) third party developers have a hard to make their apps compatible with the vast variety of hardware and versions of Android that are still in use.
You can go on the Android Market right now, click on almost any app, look at it's reviews and see hundreds of comments screaming about the app not working on their phone. The everyday consumer is stupid, they have one bad experience with Android and it'll be less likely that their next phone will be Android. And that's bad for business and the point Steve Jobs was trying to make.

ms79723 said:
Id rather not have all Android Devices pushing the same exact thing (ex: interface). I like how it is, because dev wise, it brings a lot more excitement. Every time I go from cyanogenmod to Sense, it feels as if I just got a new phone, I like having that feeling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS!
stupid10char

I used to own iphone 3G, and 4. iPhone 4 is indeed a very solid phone with very solid build quality. The downside of owning it was you have to deal with ATT. Apps like orb, and slingmobile got even worst because of retina display and the crap data limitation.
I think both Evo and iPhone 4 have great ups and owns.
I love iphone 4 for it's solid build, and does what's it's supposed to do with no need for tweaking. Down side of it is ATT, and no wifi tether (I didn't jailbreak it yet since there was no need for it for my wife), and data cap on certain apps. Oh and I have not experience the death grip issue, and let's not forget loads of free games that are actually good.
My monthly fee for 450 min, unlimited data, no text(google voice=profit!), no mms = about 70/month after all fees and taxes (EDIT** This is ATER 15% corp discount-I think I used to pay close to 90 w/o the discount).
Upside of Evo is great screen size, Sprint with Asurion insurance, easy to root and enable wifi tethering, great slingmobile quality, and the monthly price. The downside of Evo is crappy build quality (on my second Evo due to glass coming off, and even brand new one's glass can be pushed down)
Monthly fee for SERO prem = I'm assuming it's going to be around 65-70 bucks after insurance/taxes which includes unlimited texts/MMS.

achllles said:
I used to own iphone 3G, and 4. iPhone 4 is indeed a very solid phone with very solid build quality. The downside of owning it was you have to deal with ATT. Apps like orb, and slingmobile got even worst because of retina display and the crap data limitation.
I think both Evo and iPhone 4 have great ups and owns.
I love iphone 4 for it's solid build, and does what's it's supposed to do with no need for tweaking. Down side of it is ATT, and no wifi tether (I didn't jailbreak it yet since there was no need for it for my wife), and data cap on certain apps. Oh and I have not experience the death grip issue, and let's not forget loads of free games that are actually good.
My monthly fee for 450 min, unlimited data, no text(google voice=profit!), no mms = about 70/month after all fees and taxes.
Upside of Evo is great screen size, Sprint with Asurion insurance, easy to root and enable wifi tethering, great slingmobile quality, and the monthly price. The downside of Evo is crappy build quality (on my second Evo due to glass coming off, and even brand new one's glass can be pushed down)
Monthly fee for SERO prem = I'm assuming it's going to be around 65-70 bucks after insurance/taxes which includes unlimited texts/MMS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be interesting to see what happens when the iPhone finally launches on Verizon. And who knows, with the iPhone on Verizon, we might see it on Sprint sooner or later.

Oh I forgot to mention pretty important experience.
I sold iphone 3G (I'd say 8/10 condition) for 200 bucks on craigslist with in 2 hours of posting it.
Had tough time selling HTC Touch Pro 2 (about same condition) for 150 on craigslist. Finally got rid of it for 180 with bunch of extra stuff (extra bat, charger, bodyglove etc).

DirtyShroomz said:
So what he's saying is people are sheep. Everybody wants to have the exact same tool and nobody wants something different or the ability to create something different. It's not a good business move to let users have a brain.
Got it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is, it's correct.
The majority of phone, mp3, toaster buyers are sheep.
Folks like us who read forums such as this one; Those who understand the inner workings of their device and would like to have the ability to change it if desired; Those who enjoy digging into and learning about what they have....
We're the minority. The very, very small minority.
Apple got it right with devices that just work when you turn them on and they do exactly what people expect. Your average 16 year old girl could care less about rooting or jailbreaking. Can she send text messages, listen to music and read Facebook? Bam, the iPhone is good enough. Oh, there was an update to the iPhone software? A few minutes of data transfer and a reboot later and she can get back to what she wants to do with it.
For Android users, it's a question of which phone? Which UI does it come with? Which OS version does it have? You start throwing information like that to a general, everyday, I-just-want-it-to-work user and their eyes glaze over.
I still believe that Android will eventually overtake the iPhone, just by sheer number of devices and carriers, but Google really needs to rein back a bit and let the device manufacturers catch up. We just barely got Froyo rolled out and there's already talk of IceCream.
Fragmentation is a real problem. Not just to users, but developers. The Market is full of comments that say things like "not working on X device".
You don't see that in the iPhone app store.
It's issues like that that will continue to turn sheep users away.

All that proves is Steve Jobs is not above trolling, google is not fragmenting the market. Manufacturers are, google by no means in forced Samsung to use touchwiz, or HTC to use Sense.
I really have never run into a problem where apps wont run my phone due the "fragmentation"

Jobs summed up the point of Android vs Apple in his own words and didn't even realize it.
"We see tremendous value in having Apple rather than our users be the systems integrator."

I agree with jobs. People do want products that "just work" - period. Unless you're a developer, why would you want something that you have to put labor into to actually have it running correctly? However, besides having my products just work I like variety and apple does not provide that - but then again, like someone else said, that's only a few of us.

i partially agree with jobs and just saying that makes me about throw up not because i hate apple products etc. I just really dont like steve jobs.
I think a lot of people give the general public to much credit. honestly even if android had no fragmentation and was better in every aspect then iOS ... almost everyone knows about the iphone. It is already instilled into the average persons minds that the iphone is the best phone. It will take years and years for that to change under optimal conditions.
Most people dont know what fragmentation of an os is or why it can cause problems. Even though the Evo Vs Iphone video was a joke it was pretty accurate, though exaggerated slightly, the average consumer (i am sure some of you will take offense as did many who saw the video but its true). they dont care what else is out what anything else can do they just want an iphone because they have been fed that it is the best phone for a while now.
the iphone is not a bad piece of hard ware. just dont agree with job's practices or "vision" of what the users and developers should be allowed to do. If they allowed widgets and added a bit more customization options to iOS i think they could pull a good amount of the "casual" android users back to there side.

Important post by P3droid (For GB users especially)

P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
Edit:
P3droid updated his post.

I have never been so scared thanks for informing!

yawdapaah said:
P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually if you know the background and read all of it he says its NOT JUST VZW and motorola as htc has been locking bootloaders and having signed images, thunderbolt, soon to be incredible S

Yeah I know I read the whole page and puked litterly. Not kidding.

Not buying any of it, they may try to make it harder but I highly doubt any of this will effect us long term.

For what its worth, Verizon has systems in place already to monitor those who do not pay for tethering (one way is to check the resolution). This doesn't really surprise me however...

With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. The platform I have supported and loved for some time now for its openness and freedom... is being restricted as we speak. I can't speak for everyone when saying this but, I root my phone just to customize it to my liking. If companies didn't junk up their phones with bloatware and just made the phones for their consumer, this will be solved. The only time i ever use wireless tethering is when i absolutely need to. My droid x (after being rooted and install a custom ROM) is completely capable of doing anything i would need to tether a laptop for. There are some very good points in this thread:
1. Unlimited data IS Unlimited data. Why charge more for tethering when you already pay for unlimited data.
2. You pay A LOT (unreasonable amount) of money for your phone.... IT'S YOURS!!! Why can't you do what you want with it. I understand the argument against this. "Wireless tethering steals data" NO IT DOESN'T. We pay a lot of money for unlimited data. It's required for smartphones on Verizon.
3. The warranty program. I understand there are people that don't know what they're doing when they flash new firmware, and brick their phones. I'm sure there is a simple solution for this. Just restrict those people from getting new phones under the warranty program. Don't punish everyone for customizing their phones to their liking... you know... the phones THEY PAID FOR.
I know there are thousands of people that feel the same as i do on this subject but i need to vent. The Droid X is an amazing phone... physically. If we could get stock Gingerbread on the phone, with no bloatware and motoblur, this phone would be blazing fast and i would have absolutely no need for rooting. As i said before, if the phone is capable of handling certain tasks, there is little to no reason (for me) to teather. I don't know who to be mad at. I used to think Google was amazing. I absolutely love everything they do (android, gmail, docs, chrome, the list goes on). I'm starting to change my mind. They're holding back on honeycomb so that we can't customize that, do we blame them? Motorola locks/encrypts their bootloaders, do we blame them? Verizon takes advantage of having the best service/signal and rapes their customers on the bill (and still wants more for tethering), do we blame them? Should I give in, and be unhappy with my phone as stock 2.2 froyo with tons of bloatware that ill never use and slows down my phone every day? Should i deal with the horribly coded motoblur that slows down my phone more than the bloatware? Maybe i should just go back to a standard style phone and use Boost mobile or something cheap and use use my droid x that I PAID FOR, off network as a multimedia device. That way, "the man" can't tell me what i can and can't do. What is everyone else thinking on this subject? I started to think this petition to motorola for the locked bootloader may actually make an impact. I'm begining to think now that we're making an impact in the wrong direction that we want.
Edit: On a (related) side note: As i was sbf'ing and flashing new firmware the other night, I had a lot of trouble activating my phone. I had to wait until the next morning to do so. I don't know if this has any relation or if verizon was just having technical difficulties.

yawdapaah said:
P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately this is not isolated to just VZW and Moto, this will pertain to all carriers and all device manufacturers.

sdicker89 said:
Edit: On a (related) side note: As i was sbf'ing and flashing new firmware the other night, I had a lot of trouble activating my phone. I had to wait until the next morning to do so. I don't know if this has any relation or if verizon was just having technical difficulties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was probably just the network ive sbf'd like 5 times the past few days and sometimes it doesnt want to cooperate this happen occasionally when i was factory resetting my droid eris back in the day also if it fails just skip it if u can and dial *22899 same thing just does it automatically instead of calling and having to choose it out of a list. this would never hold up in court because of the definition of unlimited. its so broad verizon wouldnt stand chance. its about like bottled water why the **** would you pay for it wen its free. i think its high time the community put their collective minds (and money) to come against verizon with a class action lawsuit. oh wait recently LOL was accepted into the oxford english dictionary i think next up is verizon trying to get the definition of unlimited changed to "what we think is appropriate". its like going to a buffet, you pay for all of it and as much as you want. then going up for ur 4th plate of dessert and getting told no sir the $5 doesnt include THAT much.

Funnyface19 said:
it was probably just the network ive sbf'd like 5 times the past few days and sometimes it doesnt want to cooperate this happen occasionally when i was factory resetting my droid eris back in the day also if it fails just skip it if u can and dial *22899 same thing just does it automatically instead of calling and having to choose it out of a list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to have that problem ALL the time with my droid eris. Never really happens with my droid X and i'm constantly sbf'ing and flashing roms, especially lately with the GB leak and drew garen roms for the GB leak.

Ok, after reading some of P3droid's twitter, im hoping this isn't just drunk talk. This better not be another hoax like the unlocked bootloader a little while back from someone else. Im really getting fed up with all this drama/rumor stuff going down.

Excellent point(s) sdicker89. I'm with you 100%. Besides, I really think this issue would have a lot more publicity if were completely true.
This is a pretty big issue and would have a huge impact on the whole market.
I think I remember a rumor a while back similiar to this. I think only time will tell tell...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA Premium App

DroidzFX said:
With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Playing devil's advocate here, but would it be so bad if the smartphone market shrank? I am just one of many people who believe the industry took a huge downturn one these phones became so cheap and plentiful.
Devices that were once reserved for the "tech crowd" are now in the hands of people who could barely use a Razr 3 years ago. Which brings us 180d back around to the warranty/tethering/rooting.
--------------------
Sent from my Gingerbread-powered Droid X using a full featured version of Tapatalk, better known as Forum Runner.

I honestly don't know what to make of this. There has been so much childish drama going on in the community as of late it's getting out of hand. Hopefully we aren't just getting ' trolled' like the unlocked bootloaders several weeks ago.
I've thought about it for a bit after reading this post and I can honestly say I don't want my smart phone without at the very least having root access. The phone is filled with tons of apps that I can't even remove? Honestly, don't add 20 bloatware apps if I can't remove them. I also really love SetCPU. Without that my battery life is ****.
Maybe if people in the community were literate enough to read 10 simple directions we wouldn't have this problem, but who knows. I'm still reluctant to believe all of s. If they, solidly, know who is rooted and who isn't what can they do? I'm not SBF'ing to stock. I paid for this phone and until they lock it down I'll do whatever I want with it.
Sent via Droid X

They can't dictate how we use our devices.
What if Dell, HP, Compaq, etc forbade its customers from uninstalling all the bloat that comes installed on OEM machines? Or worse, penalized the end user for uninstalling Windows, and installing Linux instead?
Lawsuit.
This is my phone, and as long as I make my payments every month I can do with it as I damn well please.
And as far as the data is concerned I pay for UNLIMITED data. Unless they are using a different dictionary than I am, unlimited means no cap. Not unlimited up to a certain amount.
There is documentation some where, forgive me not remembering where I read it, but when AT&T discontinued their unlimited data plan for new customers and gave them a 2GB cap each month, they admitted that only 2% of their customers EVER went over that.
So as a last resort Verizon, employ the same rules for your new customers to keep your data overages in check, but leave my phone alone.
But you know what, it will probably happen. They will indeed impose these restrictions and you know what we will do? ***** about it, and nothing else. We will share our discontent to each other on this forum and call Google, and VZW blood sucking bastards while sitting on our hands with our bottom lip stuck out, and go about our business.
If this happens its because we let it. Plain and simple.

Scottbg1 said:
They can't dictate how we use our devices.
What if Dell, HP, Compaq, etc forbade its customers from uninstalling all the bloat that comes installed on OEM machines? Or worse, penalized the end user for uninstalling Windows, and installing Linux instead?
Lawsuit.
This is my phone, and as long as I make my payments every month I can do with it as I damn well please.
And as far as the data is concerned I pay for UNLIMITED data. Unless they are using a different dictionary than I am, unlimited means no cap. Not unlimited up to a certain amount.
Right. But one thing is wondering how do we BLOCK VERIZON FROM KNOWING that we are happily rooted?
There is documentation some where, forgive me not remembering where I read it, but when AT&T discontinued their unlimited data plan for new customers and gave them a 2GB cap each month, they admitted that only 2% of their customers EVER went over that.
So as a last resort Verizon, employ the same rules for your new customers to keep your data overages in check, but leave my phone alone.
But you know what, it will probably happen. They will indeed impose these restrictions and you know what we will do? ***** about it, and nothing else. We will share our discontent to each other on this forum and call Google, and VZW blood sucking bastards while sitting on our hands with our bottom lip stuck out, and go about our business.
If this happens its because we let it. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. But one thing is wondering how do we BLOCK VERIZON FROM KNOWING that we are happily rooted?

If they mess with me I'll take my 3 phones all with unlimited data plans and move to sprint... Nexus s here I come lol.
Plain and simple this is my phone I'll do with it what I please I pay for insurance every month never returned a device except my moms droid iris because the track ball quit working right.
I am running rooted gb I don't tether and I plan to keep doing what I'm doing if they don't want my business that's a choice formthem to make unless I'm forced to make it for them.
My dad always says companies work for us we pay them.

DroidzFX said:
With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pda sales are up 22% this year...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Its really not that big of a deal... Sure 9 out of 10 phones are going to be locked down now.
However there will always be google experience devices like the Nexus line where its a requirement for them to be unlocked with no carrier intervention.
All thats going to happen is the general public will keep doing what their doing and all of us will end up with nexus phones
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Q] Internet connection issues with Gingerbread

Not sure if it's just me, but I"ve noticed that when I use either Wifi Tether or some other similar app, or even usb tether, certain apps on my Droid X say they can't connect to the internet. A couple of these apps are TV Shows, Geo Coupons, and the weather feature in my Beautiful Widgets app. Most everything else seems to work fine, even Android Video and Weather Channel, but I don't want to have to reboot my phone every time I use Wifi Tether. Anyone have any ideas?

You are a brave man doing wifi tether on an unofficial leaked GB build after Moto and Verizon both came out saying they will be looking into users that do this illegally.
As for the problem, try doing a factory reset and see if that works? Remember this isn't official yet, bound to be bugs.

Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.

blubyu87gt said:
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.

This is going to be a bit long winded so I appologize in advance...
Yes, of course I have seen the chicken little write up that everyone is acting like its the end of the world for root and everything android. Hence why I said offical. I know that Test guy got the boot but that hardly means p3 is taking his place.
Even he said take it with a grain of salt. Yes, he is a good dev and has had a couple good leaks but that hardly makes what he said infallible.
I am sure that this has been gone over by all the manufactures and carriers but WORSE case is they contact you (like att did with iPhone users) saying stop using or start paying. Then you either A) stop. OR B) Tell them to not put any random charges on your account and keep going.
Does everyone think that Verizon will actually start booting customers (at 50+ bucks a month arpu) or opening some crazy litagations against those who root-tether over a 20 dollar charge. The loss (heavily) out weighs gain so therefore its not viable for the company to do really any action above against its customers.
As far as the blocking said services on the software side. This is kinda normal... Why are people so shocked about what he said about blocking root... They (OEMs) have been doing this since the Eris so why is everyone so shocked now? And notice how through the software they made it so only free wifi tether was more difficult to obtain. All other aspects were left pretty far intact and it was rooted within a week. To me that says Verizon is not concerned with blocking, tracking, booting, or mafia style offing root users. That looks more like they want to make root possible while getting as much money as they can for services they offer.... Shocker....

bravo1234 said:
There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.

cstrife999 said:
Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?

Jmoney47 said:
I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen others state this, not my original thought. But it does make sense:
This is mostly about tethering. 'Theft of service'. p3Droid sells an app on the marketplace that enables you to bypass VZW's pay-app (3g Hotspot Patch). While simply rooting and using a variety of tethering apps is possible, this one avenue is a more direct attack on vzw's revenue stream.
If VZW is going take any action, legally, its likely going to go at him first. He's "profiting" from the action.
Most likely he's realized (maybe officially from VZW?) that he's a legal target and is trying to mitigate the damage?