[Q] Internet connection issues with Gingerbread

[Q] Internet connection issues with Gingerbread - Droid X General

Not sure if it's just me, but I"ve noticed that when I use either Wifi Tether or some other similar app, or even usb tether, certain apps on my Droid X say they can't connect to the internet. A couple of these apps are TV Shows, Geo Coupons, and the weather feature in my Beautiful Widgets app. Most everything else seems to work fine, even Android Video and Weather Channel, but I don't want to have to reboot my phone every time I use Wifi Tether. Anyone have any ideas?

You are a brave man doing wifi tether on an unofficial leaked GB build after Moto and Verizon both came out saying they will be looking into users that do this illegally.
As for the problem, try doing a factory reset and see if that works? Remember this isn't official yet, bound to be bugs.

Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.

blubyu87gt said:
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
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There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.

This is going to be a bit long winded so I appologize in advance...
Yes, of course I have seen the chicken little write up that everyone is acting like its the end of the world for root and everything android. Hence why I said offical. I know that Test guy got the boot but that hardly means p3 is taking his place.
Even he said take it with a grain of salt. Yes, he is a good dev and has had a couple good leaks but that hardly makes what he said infallible.
I am sure that this has been gone over by all the manufactures and carriers but WORSE case is they contact you (like att did with iPhone users) saying stop using or start paying. Then you either A) stop. OR B) Tell them to not put any random charges on your account and keep going.
Does everyone think that Verizon will actually start booting customers (at 50+ bucks a month arpu) or opening some crazy litagations against those who root-tether over a 20 dollar charge. The loss (heavily) out weighs gain so therefore its not viable for the company to do really any action above against its customers.
As far as the blocking said services on the software side. This is kinda normal... Why are people so shocked about what he said about blocking root... They (OEMs) have been doing this since the Eris so why is everyone so shocked now? And notice how through the software they made it so only free wifi tether was more difficult to obtain. All other aspects were left pretty far intact and it was rooted within a week. To me that says Verizon is not concerned with blocking, tracking, booting, or mafia style offing root users. That looks more like they want to make root possible while getting as much money as they can for services they offer.... Shocker....

bravo1234 said:
There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
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Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.

cstrife999 said:
Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
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I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?

Jmoney47 said:
I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
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I've seen others state this, not my original thought. But it does make sense:
This is mostly about tethering. 'Theft of service'. p3Droid sells an app on the marketplace that enables you to bypass VZW's pay-app (3g Hotspot Patch). While simply rooting and using a variety of tethering apps is possible, this one avenue is a more direct attack on vzw's revenue stream.
If VZW is going take any action, legally, its likely going to go at him first. He's "profiting" from the action.
Most likely he's realized (maybe officially from VZW?) that he's a legal target and is trying to mitigate the damage?

Related

G2 rootkit, prevents any permenant modification.

Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot

Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.

Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.

Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.

i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.

funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
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the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.

byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.

devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.

I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.

if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons

But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.

Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!

Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?

im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol

PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
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And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
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That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).

Oops 10chars

HTC rocks!!!!!!!

Xoom 4G Upgrade Only for Unrooted Devices?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...

egzthunder1 said:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/220966/no_lte_for_rooted_motorola_xooms.html
This article paints a rather oblique picture yet it goes hand in hand with Motorola's M.O. Needless to say, the device can always be unrooted, but it still sucks...
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Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.

keitht said:
Yeah I saw that. I mean really, are they going to make a big stink about that? That would mean they are prying into your personal info which is why this whole sending in to get the upgrade crap sucks. They should not even turn it on.
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Unless there is a software upgrade required for the 4G to work and if its rooted the update won't apply correctly. It should be simple enough to revert it to stock before sending it in though.

How is this different than any other device? lol people have been having to unroot their phones for years in order to send back in for repair/service/etc...

imo moto needs to get their panties out of a knot and relax when it comes to hackers
pretty much only techie people will root their phones and install custom firmware not your average joe, if its anything they should let the techies do their thing while still offering services like this(upgrades only NOT repairs)

The moderator from motorola wasnt reffering to the 4g upgrade he meant software otas

Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.

generic.imitation said:
Yeah, Matt was referring to ota updates. I frequent the support forums over at motorola, and he said when he gets more info that he will put it out. I covered it in the sticky post this morning after I read that news article. Sorry, posting from my phone, or I would givea link to the forum post where he covered that issue.
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Ill save you the trouble
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?tstart=0
Read post 6

A friend and I got into a discussion about the very same thing but the subject was about WHO really owns what you bought.
If you think about this, anything YOU buy outright with hard earned greenbacks, is NOT really yours to begin with. Everything today comes with a WARRANTY and legal DISCLAIMERS with any product you buy these days, it essentially says that said product will be covered as long as you don't abuse said product in it's ORIGINAL MANUFACTURED STATE !
It's funny but when you really think about this and life, it sucks !
Who could ever imagine that that piece of land with garbage and tires and whatnot, could make someone RICH by landscaping it into a CEMETERY. You go rent a small portion of dirt so when your time comes, you have some place where they could bury you, how IRONIC ! especially when you have to pay for upkeep costs.

Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?

wnrussell said:
Just follow the Re-locking instructions in this [GUIDE] Unlocking (& Re-locking) the Motorola Xoom for flashing thread and all is good?
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I would be careful relocking. I've heard of a few people bricking their phones (no adb, no fastboot, no recovery) trying to flash back to stock. Wait around a bit longer for the process to get ironed out IMO.

none of my $$ for moto anyway
Not sure why this is such a surprise. I wouldn't expect Motorola to service a rooted, or hacked device in any way.. nor would I expect that from HTC, Samsung, LG.. you get the point.
Now if they had some super secret chip that can tell if was EVER rooted and were denying upgrades.. THAT would be news. (But still not a surprise)
Regardless, since Motorola wants to be a bunch of pricks about their hardware (Atrix).. They will never see a dime from me unless this policy changes (Atrix).. and even then.. it may simply be too late. I believe in the power of the consumer and I just wish everyone else did.
MOTO is just below Sony and Apple on my SH$^% list. I was already boycotting Sony over their Playstation policy and the devices general crappyness, but Suing George Hotz for hacking a device HE purchased AND owns, and THEN making a motion (and winning) to seize and rifle through all of George's personal computers and data storage devices that he also owns is the epitome of hypocritical. I wont even PAY to see a Movie if Sony Pictures is involved.. (Thanks Bit-Torrent).
Sorry.. straying off topic.. So If you care about having the best hardware and it's made by a company who treats their customers like crap.. you have 2 choices.. 1) Buy the hardware anyway, and settle for being treated like crap, or 2) Settle for lesser hardware from a company you don't mind giving your money to.
While they had a rocky start... I'm looking forward to giving my money to Notion Ink for their Adam Tablet (as soon as they manufacturer enough to begin selling them again). They make solid hardware, and while the software needs improvement.. They are promising Honeycomb and they seem to have embraced the modders and hackers who make the device better. I hope it lasts.

Hope everyone's enjoying their xooms. That's what you get for buying one knowing Moto's policies. Let's keep sending money to the very company that's trying to strip us of our rights. Surely, that will change their policies.

For those still wondering, the thread has been updated by Motorola clarifying the issue.
All Motorola XOOM tablets on the Verizon Wireless network are eligible to receive an upgrade to support 4G LTE. This includes those that have been unlocked; however, those units must be submitted for upgrade with the original factory software reinstalled and the device relocked in order to receive the upgrade.
For devices that are returned unlocked, Motorola will attempt to complete the upgrade, but may be unable to update the software. In these cases, the device will be returned to the consumer with just the 4G LTE modem installed.
More details on the process will be available closer to the upgrade availability.
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I can't post the direct link as I'm still a new user, but it's post #42 in the linked thread.

it will be upgraded
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/45865?start=30&tstart=0

Important post by P3droid (For GB users especially)

P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
Edit:
P3droid updated his post.

I have never been so scared thanks for informing!

yawdapaah said:
P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
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actually if you know the background and read all of it he says its NOT JUST VZW and motorola as htc has been locking bootloaders and having signed images, thunderbolt, soon to be incredible S

Yeah I know I read the whole page and puked litterly. Not kidding.

Not buying any of it, they may try to make it harder but I highly doubt any of this will effect us long term.

For what its worth, Verizon has systems in place already to monitor those who do not pay for tethering (one way is to check the resolution). This doesn't really surprise me however...

With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. The platform I have supported and loved for some time now for its openness and freedom... is being restricted as we speak. I can't speak for everyone when saying this but, I root my phone just to customize it to my liking. If companies didn't junk up their phones with bloatware and just made the phones for their consumer, this will be solved. The only time i ever use wireless tethering is when i absolutely need to. My droid x (after being rooted and install a custom ROM) is completely capable of doing anything i would need to tether a laptop for. There are some very good points in this thread:
1. Unlimited data IS Unlimited data. Why charge more for tethering when you already pay for unlimited data.
2. You pay A LOT (unreasonable amount) of money for your phone.... IT'S YOURS!!! Why can't you do what you want with it. I understand the argument against this. "Wireless tethering steals data" NO IT DOESN'T. We pay a lot of money for unlimited data. It's required for smartphones on Verizon.
3. The warranty program. I understand there are people that don't know what they're doing when they flash new firmware, and brick their phones. I'm sure there is a simple solution for this. Just restrict those people from getting new phones under the warranty program. Don't punish everyone for customizing their phones to their liking... you know... the phones THEY PAID FOR.
I know there are thousands of people that feel the same as i do on this subject but i need to vent. The Droid X is an amazing phone... physically. If we could get stock Gingerbread on the phone, with no bloatware and motoblur, this phone would be blazing fast and i would have absolutely no need for rooting. As i said before, if the phone is capable of handling certain tasks, there is little to no reason (for me) to teather. I don't know who to be mad at. I used to think Google was amazing. I absolutely love everything they do (android, gmail, docs, chrome, the list goes on). I'm starting to change my mind. They're holding back on honeycomb so that we can't customize that, do we blame them? Motorola locks/encrypts their bootloaders, do we blame them? Verizon takes advantage of having the best service/signal and rapes their customers on the bill (and still wants more for tethering), do we blame them? Should I give in, and be unhappy with my phone as stock 2.2 froyo with tons of bloatware that ill never use and slows down my phone every day? Should i deal with the horribly coded motoblur that slows down my phone more than the bloatware? Maybe i should just go back to a standard style phone and use Boost mobile or something cheap and use use my droid x that I PAID FOR, off network as a multimedia device. That way, "the man" can't tell me what i can and can't do. What is everyone else thinking on this subject? I started to think this petition to motorola for the locked bootloader may actually make an impact. I'm begining to think now that we're making an impact in the wrong direction that we want.
Edit: On a (related) side note: As i was sbf'ing and flashing new firmware the other night, I had a lot of trouble activating my phone. I had to wait until the next morning to do so. I don't know if this has any relation or if verizon was just having technical difficulties.

yawdapaah said:
P3droid posted some information on the coming lockdown from Moto and Vzw. Please read this and decide where you want to go from there. I for one am SBF'ing right now.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Edit:
The gist of the post is that VZW and Moto are actively going after those of us running non-approved software and even root users. This is probably the cause of the Wifi tether issue.
Again, please read this folks!
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately this is not isolated to just VZW and Moto, this will pertain to all carriers and all device manufacturers.

sdicker89 said:
Edit: On a (related) side note: As i was sbf'ing and flashing new firmware the other night, I had a lot of trouble activating my phone. I had to wait until the next morning to do so. I don't know if this has any relation or if verizon was just having technical difficulties.
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it was probably just the network ive sbf'd like 5 times the past few days and sometimes it doesnt want to cooperate this happen occasionally when i was factory resetting my droid eris back in the day also if it fails just skip it if u can and dial *22899 same thing just does it automatically instead of calling and having to choose it out of a list. this would never hold up in court because of the definition of unlimited. its so broad verizon wouldnt stand chance. its about like bottled water why the **** would you pay for it wen its free. i think its high time the community put their collective minds (and money) to come against verizon with a class action lawsuit. oh wait recently LOL was accepted into the oxford english dictionary i think next up is verizon trying to get the definition of unlimited changed to "what we think is appropriate". its like going to a buffet, you pay for all of it and as much as you want. then going up for ur 4th plate of dessert and getting told no sir the $5 doesnt include THAT much.

Funnyface19 said:
it was probably just the network ive sbf'd like 5 times the past few days and sometimes it doesnt want to cooperate this happen occasionally when i was factory resetting my droid eris back in the day also if it fails just skip it if u can and dial *22899 same thing just does it automatically instead of calling and having to choose it out of a list.
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I used to have that problem ALL the time with my droid eris. Never really happens with my droid X and i'm constantly sbf'ing and flashing roms, especially lately with the GB leak and drew garen roms for the GB leak.

Ok, after reading some of P3droid's twitter, im hoping this isn't just drunk talk. This better not be another hoax like the unlocked bootloader a little while back from someone else. Im really getting fed up with all this drama/rumor stuff going down.

Excellent point(s) sdicker89. I'm with you 100%. Besides, I really think this issue would have a lot more publicity if were completely true.
This is a pretty big issue and would have a huge impact on the whole market.
I think I remember a rumor a while back similiar to this. I think only time will tell tell...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA Premium App

DroidzFX said:
With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Playing devil's advocate here, but would it be so bad if the smartphone market shrank? I am just one of many people who believe the industry took a huge downturn one these phones became so cheap and plentiful.
Devices that were once reserved for the "tech crowd" are now in the hands of people who could barely use a Razr 3 years ago. Which brings us 180d back around to the warranty/tethering/rooting.
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Sent from my Gingerbread-powered Droid X using a full featured version of Tapatalk, better known as Forum Runner.

I honestly don't know what to make of this. There has been so much childish drama going on in the community as of late it's getting out of hand. Hopefully we aren't just getting ' trolled' like the unlocked bootloaders several weeks ago.
I've thought about it for a bit after reading this post and I can honestly say I don't want my smart phone without at the very least having root access. The phone is filled with tons of apps that I can't even remove? Honestly, don't add 20 bloatware apps if I can't remove them. I also really love SetCPU. Without that my battery life is ****.
Maybe if people in the community were literate enough to read 10 simple directions we wouldn't have this problem, but who knows. I'm still reluctant to believe all of s. If they, solidly, know who is rooted and who isn't what can they do? I'm not SBF'ing to stock. I paid for this phone and until they lock it down I'll do whatever I want with it.
Sent via Droid X

They can't dictate how we use our devices.
What if Dell, HP, Compaq, etc forbade its customers from uninstalling all the bloat that comes installed on OEM machines? Or worse, penalized the end user for uninstalling Windows, and installing Linux instead?
Lawsuit.
This is my phone, and as long as I make my payments every month I can do with it as I damn well please.
And as far as the data is concerned I pay for UNLIMITED data. Unless they are using a different dictionary than I am, unlimited means no cap. Not unlimited up to a certain amount.
There is documentation some where, forgive me not remembering where I read it, but when AT&T discontinued their unlimited data plan for new customers and gave them a 2GB cap each month, they admitted that only 2% of their customers EVER went over that.
So as a last resort Verizon, employ the same rules for your new customers to keep your data overages in check, but leave my phone alone.
But you know what, it will probably happen. They will indeed impose these restrictions and you know what we will do? ***** about it, and nothing else. We will share our discontent to each other on this forum and call Google, and VZW blood sucking bastards while sitting on our hands with our bottom lip stuck out, and go about our business.
If this happens its because we let it. Plain and simple.

Scottbg1 said:
They can't dictate how we use our devices.
What if Dell, HP, Compaq, etc forbade its customers from uninstalling all the bloat that comes installed on OEM machines? Or worse, penalized the end user for uninstalling Windows, and installing Linux instead?
Lawsuit.
This is my phone, and as long as I make my payments every month I can do with it as I damn well please.
And as far as the data is concerned I pay for UNLIMITED data. Unless they are using a different dictionary than I am, unlimited means no cap. Not unlimited up to a certain amount.
Right. But one thing is wondering how do we BLOCK VERIZON FROM KNOWING that we are happily rooted?
There is documentation some where, forgive me not remembering where I read it, but when AT&T discontinued their unlimited data plan for new customers and gave them a 2GB cap each month, they admitted that only 2% of their customers EVER went over that.
So as a last resort Verizon, employ the same rules for your new customers to keep your data overages in check, but leave my phone alone.
But you know what, it will probably happen. They will indeed impose these restrictions and you know what we will do? ***** about it, and nothing else. We will share our discontent to each other on this forum and call Google, and VZW blood sucking bastards while sitting on our hands with our bottom lip stuck out, and go about our business.
If this happens its because we let it. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. But one thing is wondering how do we BLOCK VERIZON FROM KNOWING that we are happily rooted?

If they mess with me I'll take my 3 phones all with unlimited data plans and move to sprint... Nexus s here I come lol.
Plain and simple this is my phone I'll do with it what I please I pay for insurance every month never returned a device except my moms droid iris because the track ball quit working right.
I am running rooted gb I don't tether and I plan to keep doing what I'm doing if they don't want my business that's a choice formthem to make unless I'm forced to make it for them.
My dad always says companies work for us we pay them.

DroidzFX said:
With these policy changes and increasing rates the smartphone phone market is really going to slow down. The only reason it grew so quick was due to cheap devices and good data plans. The carriers are really shooting themselves in the foot and will take notice once these sales decline.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pda sales are up 22% this year...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Its really not that big of a deal... Sure 9 out of 10 phones are going to be locked down now.
However there will always be google experience devices like the Nexus line where its a requirement for them to be unlocked with no carrier intervention.
All thats going to happen is the general public will keep doing what their doing and all of us will end up with nexus phones
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by p3droid

This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "

**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.

Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.

Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?

bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.

bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.

cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.

Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.

Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.

cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.

kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except Motorola's bootloaders.

jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).

RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
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It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?

Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
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If only someone was willing to risk their job

phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
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Click to collapse
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.

ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh

No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.

Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.

Help shed some light on the NS4G ICS wait.

So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*

I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.

Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!

Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...

patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
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Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.

KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
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Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.

Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/

Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?

Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.

bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
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I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.

petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
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I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.

IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
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Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.

petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
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And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.

lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums

Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...

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