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Hey all, I'm having a bit of a dilemma and hoping some of you can help me
So - with the introduction of NAND, we are finally able to run Android similar to a native device. Great!
I've dabbled with a large number of ROM's now and settled(ish) on a basic Desire ROM which I have to say, runs absolutely perfectly.
However, I'm missing some of the features from the DesireHD SD card days and I see there are various builds. I tried a squashedfs build and found that it was far more laggy than the unsquashed Desire build I use now.
I've just noticed that there are number of newer builds using an EXT partition on the SD card to store the apps while the ROM itself sits in the NAND.
But is it worth it is my question? Running all the apps off an SD card, surely is akin to just running the whole system from SD? Also, what's the difference between EXT3 and EXT4? I've seen a ROM which advise to use EXT3 while the other suggests 4.
Finally, if the apps run from a partition, does that mean USB Mass Storage connection is out of the question?
Phew. Thanks
NAND is suppose to have a faster read, than write when compared to SD.
NAND and SD has about 100,000 P/E cycles. SD is cheaper to replace than phone, but by the time you get to that many write cycles, your phone is an antique.
You can still use SD card when in USB Mass Storage mode. You will only see the FAT32 partition in Windows. Unless you use a 3rd party program for usb mass storage mode.
ext4
ext3
Comparison of all file systems
There isn't that much difference in ext4 and ext3, especially on a phone. ext2 is probably faster than ext3, but it doesn't have journaling, so, the data is more likely to corrupt when device is not properly turned off.
LiFE1688 said:
There isn't that much difference in ext4 and ext3, especially on a phone. ext2 is probably faster than ext3, but it doesn't have journaling, so, the data is more likely to corrupt when device is not properly turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in fact, if I use a DesireHD CWK Rom with the Apps stuck in EXT4 lets say, it won't be a massively notable difference to say just a Desire CWK Rom on NAND because the OS is still on NAND and it's just the apps that aren't. Furthermore, once they are in the RAM, it makes little difference anyway, right?
There is a difference in ext4 and ext3. Not all kernels support ext4 is probably the biggest. ext4 doesn't cause files fragmentation as much as ext3. Unfortunately, none of us used ext3/4 partitions in SD card long enough to notice the speed lost when files are fragmented in the ext3/4 partition.
So if you are going to use Desire build, check to see if the kernel supports ext4 in the first place. So far, I have seen MDJ's 10 Kernels supporting ext4, other than that, I don't remember seeing another.
Great, I'll see what happens! Thanks
This is probably a daft question but the TmoUS HD2 has 1gb ROM, so when we create partitions for CWR why dont we use the entire 1gb? It has an additional 500+mb of RAM to allow everything to run smoothly. What am I missing here? Why is 400mb the recommended size? Doesnt that just leave 600mb going to waste?
Thanks for any clarification.
It may not necessarily be daft, but it certainly is in the wrong forum.
You are completely not understanding how things works, you are messing ram with rom, you are messing cwr partitions with sd partitions..you are messing system partition with userdata partition.. summarizing: you are doing so much confusion that you will dont know also your name in some minutes
And, btw, wrong section.
btw I'm in a kind mood today:
When you flash CWR, all your availabe ROM will be used for data storage. The "400mb thing" is just for system partition, where the build will be stored
If you se a build that uses SD to store data, your availabel ROM is wasted also if you still need to use the 400mb thing (or less if the build is smaller)
Your RAM are never touched from those things.
First, not sure why this is the wrong section as it directly related to NAND/CWR, but thank for the psudo moderation.
Rafpinga: I'm not concerned with SD partitions, Don't use them as I have no need, but i gather the gist of your answer is that my 400mb ROM partition is strictly for the system (OS files) and the remainder of the 1gb will be used for data? That makes more sense.
So I basically have 1gb of ROM (700 something formatted), 400 is used for system/OS and the remaining 300 something is available for apps etc..?
Ok, I thought I had my answer but apparently not. How am I confusing NAND and SD partitions? I don't use SD partitions at all? I use NAND partitions only as far as I can tell. What did I miss? I didn't even mention SD partitions in my OP.
I have a 400mb System partition, which is on NAND, the remainder of my NAND is used for data correct? My SD card is irrelevant to this setup correct? I don't even need an SD card inserted for my setup to work...
If i'm confusing the two perhaps someone would explain how rather than just *****ing about the thread!.... If it's in the wrong place I'm sorry and I'm sure it'll get rightfully moved but that shouldnt negate trying to get an answer.
OK, you're all over the map, but lets do the quick rundown.
A partition is a chunk of named memory-space. aka c: in windows or the swap file in linux.
SD cards and internal ROM are essentially hard disks that can be written to. The ROM needs to be flashed, while the SD cards internally flash too. What you can do is partition either of them and name the partition. You can also choose the filesystem that a particular partition uses. Internal ROM for android needs to be partitioned into a proper linux filesystem with proper formatting to operate. One of the partitions is userspace, another is "system". SD partitions are extensions to the linux operating system and as such should not be considered "bad". Really, the more memory the better.
Random Access Memory (RAM), i believe some type of DDR in this phone, is a volatile memory that clears upon restart. It's only used during normal operation and never stores your Android.
Read-Only Memory (ROM) is NAND in this case. There is a large misnomer on these forums about NAND. They meant to call it Internal NAND. ROM, the 1gb, is where ALL operating system files are stored. You flash the bootstraps and system partitions once, then all your stuff is stored in a separate portion of the ROM.
NAND is the storage technology used to manufacture most consumer read-only memory(ROM). SD cards and the internal memory both use NAND type memory, the difference between the two is the bus speed between the internal NAND and the CPU.
On the TMOUS HD2, there is 1,000mb of space in the ROM. A 400mb system partition would leave 600mb for things like the swap file and the user data portion. In some cases, ie EU version, a 400mb system partition would eat the ~500mb available ROM, so developers figured out a way to partition the SD card and effectively expand the ~500mb to 1,000mb and beyond. APP2SD+ was the final solution.
The TMOUS when partitioned properly will have a huge amount of headroom for the Android to excel. Nothing really goes to waste as long as you use a TMOUS compatible ROM.
Next time, ask in the right forum and you'll get the answer you wanted without all the hassle.
Thank you. I really appreciate that explaination and again, sorry for being in the wrong forum.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Ok, now that the whole NAND/RAM/CWR thing is cleared and little badgering, I'll move this thread to the Q & A section. If you see a thread in the wrong section, just report it. Once you've posted the question in the wrong thread, there is nothing the OP can do to move it. So if you can answer then please do. This way when a MOD moves the thread to the correct place it has some useful information. So I'm deleting the SPAM/light Flaming and moving this along.
noellenchris
HD2 Forum MOD
Hi guys, just to let you know I installed WP7 (this rom) on my HD2 to test it out, and since I read that I would have to use a new nokia phone to format my microSD in order to recover it, I used a spare 1GB Kingston microSD without fear to lose it.
Thing was that now I flashed android back and I had this idea to format the microSD again using GParted (linux live cd/usb), and it worked... I had a 200 mb fat 16 partition and the rest an unknown one, so I was able to get rid of the unknown partition and expand the fat one.
Tutorial where I found about GParted (instructions not aplicable to this case)
Hope it helps.
Worked great for me too. Thanks.
Will this allow me to repatition?
I have WP7 working fine but I originally partitioned my 16gb card so I could install android but have decided to stick with wp7 for the time being, is it possible to expand the wp7 partition to make use of the partition space I reserved for android?
i.e can I delete the android partition and the expand the wp7 partition without looseing the data?
marcosxd said:
Hi guys, just to let you know I installed WP7 (this rom) on my HD2 to test it out, and since I read that I would have to use a new nokia phone to format my microSD in order to recover it, I used a spare 1GB Kingston microSD without fear to lose it.
Thing was that now I flashed android back and I had this idea to format the microSD again using GParted (linux live cd/usb), and it worked... I had a 200 mb fat 16 partition and the rest an unknown one, so I was able to get rid of the unknown partition and expand the fat one.
Tutorial where I found about GParted (instructions not aplicable to this case)
Hope it helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
M8...
You can do this with any partition tool in windows. (like Minitool partition wizard)
Nokia phone format is required ONLY for real wp7 phones (like hd7 etc) and not for hd2 runing wp7
More info here http://lifeinthefastlaneok.wordpress.com/
And here we have talk about this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1022116
ShaGGy_UK said:
Will this allow me to repatition?
I have WP7 working fine but I originally partitioned my 16gb card so I could install android but have decided to stick with wp7 for the time being, is it possible to expand the wp7 partition to make use of the partition space I reserved for android?
i.e can I delete the android partition and the expand the wp7 partition without looseing the data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you can't change the size of the WP7 partition
Hi guys,
I'm cooking a WM6.1 ROM with a small set of applications using osKitchen Zero v1.33.5. This gives me lots of free space on the user partition. I have been searching for way to redefine the partition sizes and shrink the user data partition, but haven't found any information regarding this.
Does any one know how to do this or is it even possible?
Thanks
jlsaraiva
Any reason to shrink it?
The idea is to use the remaining space to create the android partitions and boot android with haret from the WM partition. Having both WM and Android on NAND.
Well, that's the thing you can't do via ROM. At least I think so. You need some extra storagemanager drivers.
sounds intriguing though at first - moving the ext2-partitions to nand and telling haret to look for them there instead on sd. you'd still have to boot winmo first, but android would be faster. "semi-nand-flash", kinda.
but thinking about it - not enough internal memory for two os on the x1.
Dont think this is possible just yet. Like your thinking of having two os on internal memory but especially with us poor EURO 512mb devices I dont think it could cope. It would also mean a resdign of haret.exe as it looks for android on SD card.
I striped out pretty much all non essential WM parts from the ROM and I get about 400MB of free space on the user data partition, which is enough to have xdandroid.
You would have to boot into WM first, but I wouldn't mind if it ment running everything out of nand.
No need to change haret. It would be just like we have now, running xdandroid out of the sd card. Only need to change the init script on initrd to mount the nand partitons instead of the sd card and change the init script on the rootfs filesystem. Both are not dificult to do. The only issue here is really "to be or not to be" able to resize the user data partition of WM.
jlsaraiva said:
I striped out pretty much all non essential WM parts from the ROM and I get about 400MB of free space on the user data partition, which is enough to have xdandroid.
You would have to boot into WM first, but I wouldn't mind if it ment running everything out of nand.
No need to change haret. It would be just like we have now, running xdandroid out of the sd card. Only need to change the init script on initrd to mount the nand partitons instead of the sd card and change the init script on the rootfs filesystem. Both are not dificult to do. The only issue here is really "to be or not to be" able to resize the user data partition of WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could be a nice idea as you could in theory have android running on nand with out the limitations of either magldr or clk. You would be hard pushed to get a sense build running, but a gingerbread version would be cool! I assume you really have to strip down WM to get it to fit?
I remember looking into this a long time ago before magldr came out and found out some registery keys that could run hart.exe and clard.exe for you with out any user input. I'll see if I can digg them up for you!
I removed almost all EXT packages plus some microsoft apps like office, windows live etc...
But all this falls short if we can't resize the WM partitions.
I've been looking into re-partitioning the NAND on my Xperia X1, so I could increase the storage space when using a smaller rom, but I also have not found a way to do it.
I was originally hoping there was an app, either in Windows mobile, or android, that would work as a partition manager, but I have only found apps that will partition SDcards.
Another option I'm thinking of is using a linux partition manager in android, or using a full blown linux on my phone and using a linux partition manager that way.
I've also thought of using mtty, but I don't know any commands that will let me manipulate the partitioning.
I actually have no idea if any of this will work out, I don't know how the whole boot-procedure works, so I don't know if the bootloader expects the WM-rom partition to be at a certain address, or if it just goes to a certain partition, regardless of the starting and ending positions.
Like everyone here, I have the famous HTC Leo. A friend installed Android on NAND, the 2.3.4 with the mod-HyperDroid CM7-v2.1.0.
This is a great device, but the more I use it, the more I have less internal memory.
At first, I installed a lot of applications, I was full of things and I ended up filling the internal memory. I moved the more applications possible on the SD card, but the internal memory ended up being full. So I uninstalled applications not too useful, and applications more useful, clean caches, remove data, but it is still too small. My system tells me that I only have 217.3 Mb total internal memory and while I hardly more than application system installed, I only have 21.3 MB available. Now, I know that this model has double.
I do not understand: what is this devilry? Where is my memory? How can I resume normal operation until all the memory is gone and my phone becomes unusable?
I can't be the only one to whom it happens, right?
only the data partition counts as internal memory, the rest is taken by the system, boot and recovery partitions, so your200+ sounds about right.
read up on creating an ext partition on your sd card, and either flash a rom that supports it already, or add a script to your current rom, , then, instead of using the data partition on the nand the system will use the sd-ext partition as if it were nand. (This is NOT the same as choosing 'move to sd' in the apps config screens, that moves it to the fat partition, and some apps wont work from there, , , all apps will work from the ext partition, and faster than the fat partition.)
There are two sets of scripts, some move the whole data partition to ext, meaning of course you are not using the 200+ mb on the nand, so for me i prefer the scripts that move only the apps to the ext partition, and keeps your actual data (txts, contacts, stuff like that) on the regular nand data partition, thus spreading the useage.
look out for keywords like 'app2sd+' 'data2ext' 'dataonext', , stuff like that when you're searching.
samsamuel said:
only the data partition counts as internal memory, the rest is taken by the system, boot and recovery partitions, so your200+ sounds about right.
read up on creating an ext partition on your sd card, and either flash a rom that supports it already, or add a script to your current rom, , then, instead of using the data partition on the nand the system will use the sd-ext partition as if it were nand. (This is NOT the same as choosing 'move to sd' in the apps config screens, that moves it to the fat partition, and some apps wont work from there, , , all apps will work from the ext partition, and faster than the fat partition.)
There are two sets of scripts, some move the whole data partition to ext, meaning of course you are not using the 200+ mb on the nand, so for me i prefer the scripts that move only the apps to the ext partition, and keeps your actual data (txts, contacts, stuff like that) on the regular nand data partition, thus spreading the useage.
look out for keywords like 'app2sd+' 'data2ext' 'dataonext', , stuff like that when you're searching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent advice, but I think you forgot to mention this
Late I think me brain is playing tricks on me...:cyclops:
shanman-2 said:
Excellent advice, but I think you forgot to mention this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, pretty much exactly what i described, then....
shanman-2 said:
Excellent advice, but I think you forgot to mention this
Late I think me brain is playing tricks on me...:cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, I don't really need to use this. I just can install a new ROM on my NAND after making extending place on my SD for the 'dataonext', can't I?
I have to choose a dataonext ROM (with french version) and make new partition on my CD card. I'm saving all the SD card data's just now (with luckyBackup, because I'm on ubuntu PC).
My problem is find a good ROM for my needs. So, I have HSPL 2.0.8 and MAGLDR. How can I find the rom radio number? I need this information to choose the good ROM. Any advices about good ROM for my needs?
r no need to change the radio,,, if magldr works then the radio is fine.
samsamuel said:
r no need to change the radio,,, if magldr works then the radio is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought a new 16 GB SD card to try the method of post 1843062. I am trying to format as it should, and tonight or tomorrow, I'm trying to see if I can install the script without too much risk, I am not a very experienced user of ROM for HD2 and, in addition, as I'm 100% Linux Ubuntu, I saw that many procedures are more complicated or impossible to run from a Linux desktop.
Thank you for all your help and I'll let you know.
I need to understand.
I have a EU HD2 with HyperDroid CM7 installed on it.
Like many people here, my memory became too small over time. So I look for a solution and I was guided to this thread. While speaking, I read everything I could understand (and frankly there really is too much to read and understand, here ) and I ended up deciding to adopt the solution Kokotas.
So I bought a new SD card (16GB class 10 Duracell - I know, Duracell is a brand of batteries ...) and I formatted properly Gparted as shown, with one primary partition of 12 GB fat32 I named /données (French for datas) and a second primary partition 4 GB Ext4 I named /data.
Then I primed to install the script Kokotas (but I have not yet done so, this is the trick!) And there: surprise!
I suddenly 4 times more free memory internally (from 20 MB to 80 MB), but it is still the same overall size!
I wonder how it is done, because it's been months that I want to release the NAND memory, I deleted almost all my applications downloaded without great effect and there, before installing the solution Kokotas, hop, I have the place!
I run Nautilus on my HD2 connected via USB and what do I see? in the partition /data in ext4, records were Cres /app /app-private and /dalvik-cache.
What does that mean? My ROM can do one DATAtoEXT 2011 alone, when she sees a partition SD / data?
Do I install the script Kokotas or it is not worth it?
Do I flash a new ROM (I thought MIUI-MIX_3.3.1, but I'm not sure it's a good idea) without risk, in short I need to understand what happens with my phone.
Thank you.
(Sorry for my english : this is the fault of Google translation )
You might also consider just running an SD build instead of NAND. You can get a 2GB "internal storage" system.img and you don't risk getting bad blocks on nand by constantly flashing things. In my use of both I didn't really see any great speed increase or advantage in using NAND other than boot-up time is a bit less, but does that really matter?
Just another thought on this.
orangekid said:
You might also consider just running an SD build instead of NAND. You can get a 2GB "internal storage" system.img and you don't risk getting bad blocks on nand by constantly flashing things. In my use of both I didn't really see any great speed increase or advantage in using NAND other than boot-up time is a bit less, but does that really matter?
Just another thought on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought NAND is better for battery's management...
Monolecte said:
I thought NAND is better for battery's management...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't see any great battery improvement with NAND.
ROM flashing don't work
I tried to flash MIUI-MIX_3.3.1, but, it wasn't working. I think this is because Resurection needs this specific table of partition and I don't how can I modify this table of partition. CMW had a partition tool? How can I do?
Monolecte said:
I tried to flash MIUI-MIX_3.3.1, but, it wasn't working. I think this is because Resurection needs this specific table of partition and I don't how can I modify this table of partition. CMW had a partition tool? How can I do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
use the nand toolkit
samsamuel said:
use the nand toolkit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With an Ubuntu PC?
After miles of thread reading here, I won against the machine!
I have something like a new phone.
Thank you everybody.
If I can do it, anybody can do it!
ubuntu or windows will be fine.
The NAND Toolkit is a Windows software... so...