Maybe Motorola should learn a thing or two from its competitors. I am this close to losing faith in this phone.
http://pulsene.ws/15Zld
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
LancerV said:
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
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Click to collapse
The Incredible S is not.
LancerV said:
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
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Click to collapse
ha,ha good one
The Incredible S is a new model.
HTC's always been on the up-and-up regarding GPL and posting source code. It doesn't surprise me that Moto has taken a completely opposite stance regarding openness.
agentdr8 said:
HTC's always been on the up-and-up regarding GPL and posting source code. It doesn't surprise me that Moto has taken a completely opposite stance regarding openness.
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Click to collapse
I think Motorola takes that stance to make themselves more appealing to the carriers.
If you really think about it, the more "open" carriers like T-Mo and Sprint don't really have any Moto devices.
EDIT: minus the Cliq and Charm, but those are low end.
Not to argue but, Samsung's Galaxy series was on all carriers and could be heavily modded. Not to mention that Samsung included unlock codes in the phone itself for one of their models.
HTC Inspire, Nexus One, Desire/HD/Z, etc were on major carriers.
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
i.mac said:
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
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Click to collapse
this should be a non issue. You root the phone, or otherwise modify beyond manufacturer intentions, you void the warranty. case closed.
cegna09 said:
this should be a non issue. You root the phone, or otherwise modify beyond manufacturer intentions, you void the warranty. case closed.
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Click to collapse
But people who don't fully understand rooting or the consequences of rooting would contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair/replacements.
i.mac said:
But people who don't fully understand rooting or the consequences of rooting would contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair/replacements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and the answer would be the same. That is how it works. If you were dumb enough to try something without fully understanding the consequences if it went wrong, too bad. you should always educate yourself on a topic before delving into it blindly.
i.mac said:
Not to argue but, Samsung's Galaxy series was on all carriers and could be heavily modded. Not to mention that Samsung included unlock codes in the phone itself for one of their models.
HTC Inspire, Nexus One, Desire/HD/Z, etc were on major carriers.
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make a good point but the Galaxy series has only one variant on Verizon and AT&T, whereas, it is making multiple appearances elsewhere.
**This is only referring to Android devices (phones)
Look at Motorola's lineup on Verizon - Droid, D2, DX, Droid Pro, Citrus.....then look at AT&T - Backflip, Flipside, Bravo, Flipout, Atrix.
Now look at Samsung - Verizon: Fascinate and Continuum / AT&T: Captivate
That's 10 - 3 (not including tablets)
Then you can throw in HTC - Verizon: Incredible and Thunderbolt (even though HTC tried to lock down the TB) and AT&T: Inspire and Aria
That's still 10 - 7 in Motorola's favor. (You can't include the N1 because AT&T refused to carry it in their lineup, even so, Motorola still gets the nod)
I definitely do get your point of view. And you bring up a great point that carriers that want to milk you out of your money do like Motorola devices. I wonder though if this is to please the carrier or save there warranty/repair costs. If they do do it to cut costs/risks it directly benefits the carriers. So it works in their advantage both ways.
But, like what happened with Netflix's unwillingness to come to Android, Motorola's steps might pay off. And a lot of people got upset with Netflix's decision and wanted manufactures/carriers to do something about it.
Do we as users just expect too much?
i.mac said:
I definitely do get your point of view. And you bring up a great point that carriers that want to milk you out of your money do like Motorola devices. I wonder though if this is to please the carrier or save there warranty/repair costs. If they do do it to cut costs/risks it directly benefits the carriers. So it works in their advantage both ways.
But, like what happened with Netflix's unwillingness to come to Android, Motorola's steps might pay off. And a lot of people got upset with Netflix's decision and wanted manufactures/carriers to do something about it.
Do we as users just expect too much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as cegna09 said, if you damage your phone through rooting/modding, you void the warranty so it would only seem that they do it to appeal to the carriers.
It seems HTC is jumping on the bandwagon as well.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
I see a strategy here. Motorola, and now HTC, seem to be making their phones harder to crack and more difficult to mod. What this tells me is that they are trying to reduce the dev community down to just the hardcore players in an attempt to improve their profit margins. How? Well, if you can't update the phone yourself through something like flashing a custom rom or add your own features then they will have more control over the choice selection in their phones. One example would be the Atrix itself, while it has the hardware Moto could restrict the software and then in the future they could release a phone with the software but not the hardware. Does anyone ever ask themselves why can one phone have a certain feature and not another one?
This is what's going to happen people. Get used to it. We are in the hands of the worst kinds of people - "Big Cellular"
Edit: same info as above
A part of me wants to just a get a Nexus S and be done with. I may.
Their development threads are flooded. I know our might pick up, but it'll never be the same.
Why doesn't doesn't the same thing apply to our phone as did with the iphone, why aren't were covered under the DMCA? Iphone users can freely mod/jailbreak their handsets because of this and not only that apply has to still cover them under warenty. How is this any different?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
drock212 said:
Why doesn't doesn't the same thing apply to our phone as did with the iphone, why aren't were covered under the DMCA? Iphone users can freely mod/jailbreak their handsets because of this and not only that apply has to still cover them under warenty. How is this any different?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Apple can prove your device was jailbroken then it voids your warranty. It is in their License Agreement.
live4nyy said:
If Apple can prove your device was jailbroken then it voids your warranty. It is in their License Agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only until you don't restore.
Related
At least they never pulled this ****...
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/droid-x-actually-self-destructs-if-you-try-to-mod-it/
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html
Edit: As usual, the hype machine might have ran with this one and many (including myself) got sucked in. Likely not as bad as originally thought. Apparently these eFuse chips are in all omap3 devices (including the milestone and original droid) so they likely are not as scary as some fear, but with the hard line Motorola is taking with the DroidX, who knows for sure?
http://stevenbird.info/2010/07/15/droidx-today-is-the-day-more-security-info/
And who would have THOUGHT a techcrunch based site would be overly dramatic to drive traffic? lol
WOWWW... jaw dropping...
Haha HTC still on top.always knew Verizon is the cdma version of AT&T.I guess Motorola following crapple's footsteps.no wonder that evil red eye on the Droid x keep watching if u do something funny with ur device.lol
Thanx for posting
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Ahh, eFuse chips for hardware bricks....That sucks.
Really lame that they are doing everything possible to prevent rooting their phone/using ROM's. I guess I can't recommend a Motorola anymore.
Wow that's crazy... this kind of scares me. What if htc decides to follow in the footsteps of these manufacturers. Hopefully they remain just and fair. If u pay for the device, its ours. No longer does yur hand need to be involved.
Sent from my evo
xavier1022 said:
Wow that's crazy... this kind of scares me. What if htc decides to follow in the footsteps of these manufacturers. Hopefully they remain just and fair. If u pay for the device, its ours. No longer does yur hand need to be involved.
Sent from my evo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think HTC takes a different approach. Motorola is like Apple, HTC is like Google.
I'm sure HTC sees the benefit of a few people rooting their devices so they remain in the media, show how "cool" the phone can be and all the added features. Fewer still will take the plunge and root their phone. I wonder how many rooted EVO's there are, probably around 2-3% I would guess, if not less. Sure, HTC takes "token" steps to lock us out, but nothing that hasn't taken more than a few days to break into, and I think HTC knows that.
It's a good trade off that Motorola just doesn't understand, and I'm sure HTC's phones will continue to sell very well.
It could have been a stipulation from Verizon too...but I doubt it.
HOLY hell !! that's crazy !!
Thats brutal! i hope that HTC understands a similar move would KILL their handsets.
but i have a question. if it's a hardware security feature, whats to keep someone from simply desoldering the chip?
Heh,
between
w_ww.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/nope-ios-4-1-doesnt-fix-the-death-grip-antenna-issue/
and this Apple's Fix:
discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2480165&tstart=0
Things looking up and up for htc / sprint!
sorry for the link -- cant post it, "new users are not permitted to post outside links..." hey mods, fix this please?
SilverStone641 said:
Thats brutal! i hope that HTC understands a similar move would KILL their handsets.
but i have a question. if it's a hardware security feature, whats to keep someone from simply desoldering the chip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is that the chip also holds the firmware, or part of it, so desoldering the chip would brick the phone. It may be possible to desolder the chip and replace it with a new one and copy over the firmware information. But how many would be able to do this? Very very few..probably only a handful.
Sirchuk said:
My understanding is that the chip also holds the firmware, or part of it, so desoldering the chip would brick the phone. It may be possible to desolder the chip and replace it with a new one and copy over the firmware information. But how many would be able to do this? Very very few..probably only a handful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Imagine how much you could fetch on ebay for one though.....*drool*
I might be mistaken about this, but doesn't the original Droid have an unlocked bootloader? I mean, from what I hear, it's regarded as the original developer phone, and I can't see it gaining that title with a locked bootloader AND eFuse.
Mecha2142 said:
I might be mistaken about this, but doesn't the original Droid have an unlocked bootloader? I mean, from what I hear, it's regarded as the original developer phone, and I can't see it gaining that title with a locked bootloader AND eFuse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The original droid had unlocked bootloader cuz of moto's business dealings with google at the time, which was out of the norm for them. Apparently this efuse chip was in the droid, milestone, and droidx and does the the advertised capability to brick your phone, it just isn't being utilized by motorola apparently. or thats what I've gathered so far.
Sirchuk said:
I think HTC takes a different approach. Motorola is like Apple, HTC is like Google.
I'm sure HTC sees the benefit of a few people rooting their devices so they remain in the media, show how "cool" the phone can be and all the added features. Fewer still will take the plunge and root their phone. I wonder how many rooted EVO's there are, probably around 2-3% I would guess, if not less. Sure, HTC takes "token" steps to lock us out, but nothing that hasn't taken more than a few days to break into, and I think HTC knows that.
It's a good trade off that Motorola just doesn't understand, and I'm sure HTC's phones will continue to sell very well.
It could have been a stipulation from Verizon too...but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree htc is like google but im going to go a step further amd say they "want" to let us customize it as much as possible. what i think is that HTC, to keep their sales ranks, tries to comply with cell companies because, from what i understand, they are the ones that dont want us rooting mainly because of the wifi situation. im guessing also because of the bricking going on by novices lol
what moto is doing with the droid x is just wrong. intentionally bricking a device for a owner trying to customize is pure sabotage! if this happens i dont doubt theyll know the owner tinkered with it and not honor a replacement. that just sucks
I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...
this belongs in general
Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
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It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
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Click to collapse
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Moved as not development.
reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
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Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.
Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
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Click to collapse
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.
Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.
Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
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Click to collapse
I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
The short answer is No, they don't.
While they basically have no recourse if we do root their devices, they have no obligation to allow us to do so. Also they (the manf.) have evry right to put protections in place to attempt to not allow thier devices to be rooted.
frycook15 said:
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
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Click to collapse
That was, um.... interesting. I had no this issue had reached a legal victory. I think it just means you can do whatever you want on your own hardware and share it with others without fear of legal reprise. Doesnt mean Moto's going to suddenly set up a how to on root on their website.
No. They also do not have to fix your phone even if you rooted it and that is terms for voiding the contract.
All this did was confirm people have property rights.
Motorola legally don't have to give us control, the article is stated that as a consumer you can do what ever you want with your phone expect for illegal action that wont result in a lawsuit by the Company because you modified their device that is now yours.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I would say this more or less only affects people who root/JB phones (people like the iPhone dev-team, who actually release tools/methods of rooting/JB'ing). The common jailbreaker/rooter isn't going to actually get sued over it. People who make tools that allow everyone else to, may actually get sued (which now they can't?). =p
AaronsDarts said:
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
omnifox said:
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
I dont see why phone manufacturers think they have the right to lock us down and dictate what software we can run on the phone. We purchase the phone for $500-600, its legally ours. I should be able to run any OS or software on it that I choose to. Nobody dictates what software or OS I can or can't run on my desktop computer, and if they did try to, the Justice Dept or the EU would be all over them like a cheap suit suing them and fining them like crazy. So where do these phone manf's get the gall to do it??
I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against one phone manufacturer. It would scare others in to backing off this assanine behavior.
omnifox said:
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
FtL1776 said:
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that a locked bootloader doesn't prevent you from taking the framework and other files OFF of the phone, just prevents you from putting a custom ROM ON the phone.
There are some devs working on extracting blur pieces, but from what I've read so far, it's pretty inter-twined, much like HTC's Sense framework.
Yes, I know that Motorola has 'Said' the bootloader is locked to protect their IP, and that VZW has nothing to do with it. And of course, we all read this on the internet, so it must be true.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that Moto has self interests in mind here as well. But to think that VZW doesn't have an 'opinion' on this is just plain naive. I'll give you three guesses (and the first two won't count) as to whether the official VZW froyo release has wi-fi tethering included, or if it's been disabled.
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cbaty08 said:
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is there right to produce the phone to their specs. If you don't like the software or their configuration, don't buy it. The marketplace rules here. When/if enough people care about this issue (and I hate to say it, but people like us are a vocal minority in the large picture of phone buyers), then it will change. So long as you voluntarily pay the money, don't expect any them to do any different. Did they not say exactly that in regards to this issue? I Believe the quote was something to effect of 'buy a different phone if you want to load custom roms.'
sp1kez said:
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd pay the full price of the phone up front if that meant no contract + lower monthly bill. However none of the major US carriers offer that option except for t-mobile.
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
xmunk said:
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon won't give you a lower monthly bill...
derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is with people and this stupid mental disorder of "get the government involved," crap, specifically when you cite the wrong bureaucracy shows that you're a moron.
As the ruling has said, what happens on the phone once you jailbreak it, as long as it is received legally, there is no crime committed, preventing you from jail breaking is not illegal and never should be, seriously you have to be a retard if you believe the government should be involved in stopping how programs are coded and locked, if Verizon doesn't want you to be tethering without you paying them for that, that is THEIR right, it's their property.
After having four i9000m's die on me in recent months, it looks like a solution is finally on the horizon! Bell is releasing the Atrix which looks amazing! I am switching the moment it becomes available!
http://www.bce.ca/en/news/releases/bm/2011/01/05/76802.html
That is not a solution!
Bell is not going to give away free phones to replace the broken i9000m's!
A solution would be a fix via new hardware from Samsung!
Why with 10.12 phones it is still failing is not acceptable! Samsung should know about this problem by now and should have it fixed! 10.12 should be all new SD chips...but it does not look like it is...if 11.01 start to fail also...Samsung should be sued along with bell!
It is in the sense that Bell will have a better phone available.
Agreed that unless sued, they will probably not do a replacement.
We have a 'lemon' law in Canada. I think that with so many failures with the bell sgs, one may be able to invoke it.
DvTonder said:
It is in the sense that Bell will have a better phone available.
Agreed that unless sued, they will probably not do a replacement.
We have a 'lemon' law in Canada. I think that with so many failures with the bell sgs, one may be able to invoke it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, we do
for anyone who has not sign
please sign the online petitions
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=878043
Sorry but if you think having a Motorola instead is better your fooling yourself. Before you decide I suggest you read their Facebook support page as the posts are mostly about lack of support and NO option for the dev community to fix anything due to the bootloader being totally locked down. This is the company that released their flagship Droid and then replaced it in 6 months leaving all their customers with no support or updates. I am not sure if the USA customers even have 2.2 yet. I am fairly sure that the non USA ones do not though.
Tehpriest said:
Sorry but if you think having a Motorola instead is better your fooling yourself. Before you decide I suggest you read their Facebook support page as the posts are mostly about lack of support and NO option for the dev community to fix anything due to the bootloader being totally locked down. This is the company that released their flagship Droid and then replaced it in 6 months leaving all their customers with no support or updates. I am not sure if the USA customers even have 2.2 yet. I am fairly sure that the non USA ones do not though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... the locked bootloader makes Motorola Android phones useless.
I am holding out for the LG Optimus Black.
Tehpriest said:
Sorry but if you think having a Motorola instead is better your fooling yourself. Before you decide I suggest you read their Facebook support page as the posts are mostly about lack of support and NO option for the dev community to fix anything due to the bootloader being totally locked down. This is the company that released their flagship Droid and then replaced it in 6 months leaving all their customers with no support or updates. I am not sure if the USA customers even have 2.2 yet. I am fairly sure that the non USA ones do not though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
slaman said:
Agreed... the locked bootloader makes Motorola Android phones useless.
I am holding out for the LG Optimus Black.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, definitely would not be interested in a phone with a locked boot loader. Ahh well, the fantasy was good while it lasted.
I am talking to a lawyer regarding a class action lawsuit. Time to get serious!!!
I am in the same boat looking at a replacement, was interested in the Motorola until I realized their locked down bootloader. Not sure about LG phones I have not heard god things about them. Looks like I might have to try one of the HTC phones instead. Hopefully they cone up with something that is the same as the galaxy or better soon.
Might be a solution for those with $700 cash and a love for stock Moto ROMs.
Yeah I'll stick with my i9000m thank you !
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?