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hello,let me tell you a story of my day.
let me say that is only small benchmark comparision of the two prossesors (msm 7200 and the scorpion (snapdragon)).
i know its not fair to compare the 2 devices ,but its just to see how the scorpion perform .
by the way in deviceinfo for the toshiba tg01 the proccesor name is SCORPION.
i was passing by mediamarkt germany today and the white tg01 was there to play with ,so i install sktools and test opengl and run them:
tg01 6.1 x1 wm6.1
integer 742 332
floating 19,75 7,73
ram 1200 1550
draw bitmaps 1800 800
(while benchmarking the tg01 my xperia was digging deep in my pocket )
test opengl gave me on all test 60fps (it seem the software is limited to 60 fps)
and i installed nfs undercover gl version(i almost cried there) the game runs like ps3 i dunno how many fps but it soo smooth maybe +60fps (x1 maybe run it at 10 t0 20fps max)
days of the msm 7200 are gone.
what i see is nice very impressive platform benchmark,i only hope that the next xperia will have snapdragon platform .
p.s: SONYERICSSON i want my xperia x1 with snapdragon and 8 mpx cam and accelerometer and i will be sold .
Not sure if snapdragon chipset will be that popular. nvidias tegra chipset seems to be far better and zune hd will feature it. so its only a matter of time for more devices to ship with that.
*just my opinion
Not trying to ***** out of the thread but I just don't understand the concept of nowadays smartphones are used to play games. I mean c'mon now if you really wanna play games...just buy a PSP. I'm happy w/ my Xperia as it is. If I do need a snapdragon, I'll get the Rachel but who knows when it'll be released.
well actualy i'd like to have a snapdragon because this chip was designed with the intention to suck as less power as possible. i've read something about using 1 Watt while running on 1 ghz. thats pretty impressing.
the qualcom CPU simply just sucks when it comes to power consumption and picture processing. no idea how the nvidia chipset is but so far the snapdragon is my favourite.
for the benchmarks, i cant care less. ill wait for a proper android phone/Rom since our biggest problem is the windows we are running.
i totaly respect your opinion ,
xperia(touchpro,touch pro2,diamond....) is suffering from bad video play and if i install a prog with nice 3d effect (like s2p gl)not mentioning games ,just lagging without limit.
and more programs are coming with better ui and effects ,and xperia wvga needs gpu power to keep up with these progs .
even camera need better gpu and cpu to record better video and take picture faster and better proccesing power is needed (if you use it as ppc not as phone).
personaly i use everything in my ppc,phone ,camera ,keyboard,wifi,bluetooth,gps,mp3,video player,even sometime games when i am in train or traveling.
thats the reason why i buy a ppc,if i wanna use phone only (i will not spend 500euro on ppc)
anyway this is my personal opinion .
just a little statement ... G/CPU is nearly never a problem. its allways a matter of programming skillz. just take a look at the demoscene and see what they squeeze out of lame PCs and 64kb files. and to be honest, most coders nowdays are lazy and go for heigher CPU ussage if they can save time. same for me ^^
Snapdragon and Tegra have different strengths. They actually complement each other rather well. A chip that has all of their capabilities is what I want.
what makes the tegra so special? 3D and video rendering?
achmed20 said:
just a little statement ... G/CPU is nearly never a problem. its allways a matter of programming skillz. just take a look at the demoscene and see what they squeeze out of lame PCs and 64kb files. and to be honest, most coders nowdays are lazy and go for heigher CPU ussage if they can save time. same for me ^^
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Can't blame programmers here as mobile device keep on changing it's hardware. Software optimized for Xscale no longer working for this crappy qualcomm chip. So, we need the brutal force method (fast cpu) to ensure everything works as smooth as possible.
Too bad this TG01 only support 2100 UMTS or I will be sold as well
Hello to everybody.
I read somewhere that the cpu on hd2 is set slower than the maximum.
Is it true? there's a possibility to benchmark it or not?
If true I suppose it is necessary to use cooked roms (when available) to set it to 1 GHz and so obtain the top performance...
I am asking it because I am a newbie of the forum, of windows mobile and smartphone in general...
Thanks a lot.
don't believe everything that you read.
AFAIK there's no benchmark that supports snapdragon, so how can it possibly say what the processor is, never mind what speed it runs at?
***EDIT*** I speak too soon..
looks like sktools does support snapdragon in it's benchmark in the latest version:
Integer test..
I got 812.05
theres a HTC TOUCH HD2 WM6.5
Qualcomm (R) QSD8258B 1GHZ
as one of the comparison devices..
it scores 813.45
DAMN MY HD2 is slow ****
**** ROFL as if
to be exact, it totally doesn`t matter for me, but>
i read somewhere, that snapdragon is going to be (or it is) used in some subnotebooks or whatever are they calling... and for PDA`s is underclocked from 1,3 GHz to 1024 MHz... don`t know if it is true...
the CPU is not "underclocked"
but the problem is that inbuild graphic accelerator is not working, HTC did not supply drivers for some reason(some say legal issues)
i really dont get it.. why they build something in this mobile phone, when they dont want to use it.. are they $%#@!!**%# or what i just hope, some "masterhacker" will make a driver for this baby and we will have a real "unleashed beast"
bpeu said:
the CPU is not "underclocked"
but the problem is that inbuild graphic accelerator is not working, HTC did not supply drivers for some reason(some say legal issues)
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o-h-m-y-g-o-d... really?so I have the confirm that in HTC are doing a really bad job... I mean:we have the Ferrari but we use GPL instead of gasoline?
Wow another "HTC didn't supply the drivers" BULL**** thread! Can you stop spreading lies please?
Mods should closes this.
Bad drivers
It would not surprise me if the drivers were giving lower performance than possible.
This really did happen with the Touch Cruise which was painfully slow,
until Guys here developed some very good drivers, which made the TC perform at much higher speeds than originally.
Good news is that the same guys, Chainfire & Neo are working on improved drivers for graphics & processor.
Diamantes said:
o-h-m-y-g-o-d... really?so I have the confirm that in HTC are doing a really bad job... I mean:we have the Ferrari but we use GPL instead of gasoline?
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I don't really play a lot of games on my phone but I have tried a number of games such as Abduction, Robo defense, wave blazer, speed forge and It's getting visually boring .. I wonder if android will ever get a real open gl es2.0 and be able to come out with games like what iPhone has; examples, need for speed and street fighter 4..
don't get me wrong, I love my phone very much but from time to time everyone craves for more.. I mean its not really a hardware issue since the N1 has better hardware specs than our friendly Apple counterparts .. come on we want Neon Floating Point support on our n1.... don't u agree ?
I cant wait to see the games improve
hopefully after the google io conference on may 19th..i read somewhere that google is going to be making gaming much more friendlier on android..until then try raging thunder 2 and asphalt 5
i really do miss my iphone games though :/
I made a post similer to this a wile back. Im also seeking better games. Theres a couple iphone games I hope that gets ported to android.
I hope they have games better than the iPhone...especially considering the hardware on this thing -man, it has better specs than some of the first computers I had!! haha
erebusting said:
I hope they have games better than the iPhone...especially considering the hardware on this thing -man, it has better specs than some of the first computers I had!! haha
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Unfortunately this specifically won't happen....we may have the far superior CPU, but we have no GPU....graphical rendering is all done CPU-side; whereas the iphone has a GPU chip in it. Our CPU is pretty ridiculously powerful, such that it performs graphically about 80% of what the iphone is capable of, but we are limited by the lack of a GPU onboard.
MaximReapage said:
Unfortunately this specifically won't happen....we may have the far superior CPU, but we have no GPU....graphical rendering is all done CPU-side; whereas the iphone has a GPU chip in it. Our CPU is pretty ridiculously powerful, such that it performs graphically about 80% of what the iphone is capable of, but we are limited by the lack of a GPU onboard.
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What are you talking about? Of course the Nexus One does have a GPU, capable of OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0.
MaximReapage said:
Unfortunately this specifically won't happen....we may have the far superior CPU, but we have no GPU....graphical rendering is all done CPU-side; whereas the iphone has a GPU chip in it. Our CPU is pretty ridiculously powerful, such that it performs graphically about 80% of what the iphone is capable of, but we are limited by the lack of a GPU onboard.
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Dude, u're completely wrong. N1 has a separate chip for 3D rendering, a separate HARDWARE chip.
It's NOT CPU-based.
The snapdragon processor has a dedicated GPU called Adreno 200. A dedicated GPU is a requirement of Flash 10.1 and the reason why some older Android devices will not be able have it. The reason why some games on the iPhone look better than the N1 is because the N1 has a lot more pixels to push. The N1 can processes more Polys/second then iPhone but because there are less pixels the iPhone can render some games better than the N1.
Would be nice to see a software update the optimizes the GPU or perhaps on a new Cyanogen Rom
jlevy73 said:
The snapdragon processor has a dedicated GPU called Adreno 200. A dedicated GPU is a requirement of Flash 10.1 and the reason why some older Android devices will not be able have it. The reason why some games on the iPhone look better than the N1 is because the N1 has a lot more pixels to push. The N1 can processes more Polys/second then iPhone but because there are less pixels the iPhone can render some games better than the N1.
Would be nice to see a software update the optimizes the GPU or perhaps on a new Cyanogen Rom
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Awww I thought we had the Hummingbird GPU.. I must have incorrectly read something somewhere. Oh no wait, that was the Samsung Galaxy S. It's much better than the Snapdragon, don't know about much, but it is better. 3 times better..
Why did Google render a Hummingbird in the video demonstrating the graphics processing of the Nexus -.-
Don't forget that any games designed for the Marketplace need to run on older versions of Android as well as older devices (such as the Dream). Because of that developers need to choose between making apps backwards compatible for maximum customers or writing apps better on only specific high-end devices (N1).
Eclair~ said:
Awww I thought we had the Hummingbird GPU.. I must have incorrectly read something somewhere. Oh no wait, that was the Samsung Galaxy S. It's much better than the Snapdragon, don't know about much, but it is better. 3 times better..
Why did Google render a Hummingbird in the video demonstrating the graphics processing of the Nexus -.-
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Yep the Samsung S has a PowerVR SGX540 = 90 million triangles/sec versus Nexus One = 22 million triangles/sec
Not sure why Google did what they did but Samsung is using their new S5PC110 application processor. This processor contains an ARM Cortex-A8 core paired with a PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
andythefan said:
Don't forget that any games designed for the Marketplace need to run on older versions of Android as well as older devices (such as the Dream). Because of that developers need to choose between making apps backwards compatible for maximum customers or writing apps better on only specific high-end devices (N1).
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In some respects that is true but look at Asphalt 5 for example. The game was designed with the iPhone in mind but when run on a stock N1, it lags real bad. I think a lot of these game developers make one version instead of platform specific ones.
Would that even be possible with a mod/cab? its silly to have a GPU which is not bad (its drivers are horrible though-thank god for xda devs for 3rd party ones) and running sense and the whole graphical menu from CPU and not render them from GPU..just look how much smoother are the phones that do (iphone, bb , droid )..if it is possible , could it be cooked into roms? because that would be so, oh so great..
Hmm..Quite a few views , yet no replies...Anyone here care to share their POV ?
I wasnt aware that the GUI is rendered by the phone CPU rather than GPU. But then again, does this phone have a dedicated GPU?
the gpu is part of the cpu, no? i thought it was all on one chip.
samsamuel said:
the gpu is part of the cpu, no? i thought it was all on one chip.
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True that...Yet i have read that winmo do not use the GPU acceleration to run/render the menu(e.t.c) graphics..this is my source (where i have read this)
:
Code:
http://www.techautos.com/2010/03/14/smartphone-processor-guide/
Why is the GPU relevant if I’m not playing games on my phone?
On most modern smartphone platforms (iPhone OS, Android, Palm WebOS, with Windows Mobile as a notable exception), the OS’ user interface itself is composited, meaning it is rendered by the GPU. This makes the interface feel a lot smoother than doing UI display calculations on the already resource-constrained CPU.
On the desktop, Mac OS X introduced many consumers to a GPU-composited desktop, and on the PC side, Windows Vista/7’s Aero interface provides similar functionality. Windows XP, even on a very fast desktop rig, generally never feels quite as smooth while, say, moving around windows, as Windows 7 or Vista running Aero. For the same reason, Windows Mobile 6.x, which uses a similar rendering mode (GDI) as XP and lacks a GPU-composited desktop, is going to feel laggy or rough compared to GPU-composited UIs.
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Could there possibly be a tweak for this?or it is managed deeply into the os core , so it cannot be touched?
I'd be very suprised if it were possible to change the way the software works on such a fundamental level. At a guess, it would mean a rewrite of the OS so that anything sat on top of it automatically used the GPU when rendering for the screen. This is obviously not something that would ever happen.
That's just my understanding of the subject though, and I could be mistaken.
Heh..I know i am noob when it comes to winmo os utilization its no secret..I just thought it would be like a registry tweak to change the part used to process the image output ;p oh well..we never stop learning (and obviously have to begin from somewhere)
I actually thought Sense was already rendered by the GPU? According to the new Chainfire 3D driver - Sense is detected as being accelerated by the driver so must be using the GPU..
The snapdrgon gpu is the AMD Z430 no ?
paulrgod said:
I actually thought Sense was already rendered by the GPU? According to the new Chainfire 3D driver - Sense is detected as being accelerated by the driver so must be using the GPU..
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sense is..and that is because it is created by htc , not microsoft (what a surprise lol ;p )you sir are correct..
Are you trying to run good 3d games like NOVA, NFS Shift, Gameloft HD games on your galaxy 3 and when you ran them you only saw beatiful white textures on the screen and then started to abuse your phone's GPU. Actually you are there isnt any problem with galaxy 3's hardware it can run all the gameloft HD titles without any lag.
You can see on the youtube that a phone (crap) like LG GT540 Optimus can run gameloft HD games. It has only 600mhz processor and 156 mb RAM and not a very powerful GPU.
The actual problem with galaxy 3 is that its opengl drivers cant render 32-bit graphics and are replaced by white ones. It is probably possible it get its opengl drivers get updated after it gets official froyo update or it also possible if some developers finds way to put drivers in the phone.
I would be very grateful to the man who develops the drivers for this....eagerly waiting 2 play 3d games on my phone !!...
Since we have no one who could even build a AOSP build for our phone (Well, i'm personally trying, but it's quite hard to find doc), i don't think it will come..
But ask samsung on their open source website
apoorv28 said:
The actual problem with galaxy 3 is that its opengl drivers cant render 32-bit graphics and are replaced by white ones.
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Are you sure? I think it's because of OpenGL ES2.0, but I don't know too much about rendering system in android...
Yes 100% sure.
I am 100% sure. If anyone wants a proof then could check out youtube with Samsung GT-I5510 running NFS SHIFT smoothly. It has the same hardware as g3 the only difference is a QWERTY keypad. Also must be already knowing that LG GT540 and ATE blade dont have a powerful GPU. On youtube you would find former running BIA2 HD, NOVA HD etc and latter running Asphalt 5 smoothly.
I myself dont way to fix this problem so try to contact samsung or find a way to fix this.
apoorv28 said:
Are you trying to run good 3d games like NOVA, NFS Shift, Gameloft HD games on your galaxy 3 and when you ran them you only saw beatiful white textures on the screen and then started to abuse your phone's GPU. Actually you are there isnt any problem with galaxy 3's hardware it can run all the gameloft HD titles without any lag.
You can see on the youtube that a phone (crap) like LG GT540 Optimus can run gameloft HD games. It has only 600mhz processor and 156 mb RAM and not a very powerful GPU.
The actual problem with galaxy 3 is that its opengl drivers cant render 32-bit graphics and are replaced by white ones. It is probably possible it get its opengl drivers get updated after it gets official froyo update or it also possible if some developers finds way to put drivers in the phone.
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is there a way to check the opengl version?
(or Glide as they called it back in the voodoo days
Just a note for 3d games i would love to see half life 1 ported to android how awesome would that be!
I5500 and LG phone CPU HAS 3D ACCELARATOR!
If you carefully saw my post it is GT-I5510 not GT-I5500. I dont much about the LG phone but GT-I5510 has the same hardware as g3.
i5510 has the same processor as Spica.
I5800 DOESN'T have 3D HW accelarator.
Szaby59 said:
i5510 has the same processor as Spica.
I5800 DOESN'T have 3D HW accelarator.
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.
.
I already know that g3 hasnt got a 3d hardware accelerator. Why arent you ready to accept the truth. G3 is not that crap as you think. Want this link out this video shows GT-I5510 running NFS SHIFT super smooth!!!!!!!
Link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjd5X9pe5aA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
But without 3D accelarator is crap for games.
I5510 has, that's why can run NFS Shift.
Man it wud b damn awesum if iv can play dem on our G3....
-Devilgod (United Devils)
i5510 have a Samsung S3C6410(Spica's) CPU with 667MHz clock, and 512MB RAM
i5800 have a Samsung S5P6422 with 667MHz clock, 256MB RAM
The CPU itself is the same(ARM1176JZF-S). Only differences at tech - our's is 45nm, Spica is 65nm.
And at all - our processor is cutted version(DMA channels, GPU, etc) of Spica's.
6410 have a dedicated graphics unit, with OpenGL ES 2.0 support. That's why games are running at 5501
Technically, the Spica does not have a GPU either.. Just have a look at it's perf on benchmark on 2D/3D.. Pretty much the same as the i5800.
JoHnNy08PL said:
i5510 have a Samsung S3C6410(Spica's) CPU with 667MHz clock, and 512MB RAM
i5800 have a Samsung S5P6422 with 667MHz clock, 256MB RAM
The CPU itself is the same(ARM1176JZF-S). Only differences at tech - our's is 45nm, Spica is 65nm.
And at all - our processor is cutted version(DMA channels, GPU, etc) of Spica's.
6410 have a dedicated graphics unit, with OpenGL ES 2.0 support. That's why games are running at 5501
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The specs that the mentioned about I5510 is totally wrong. You must have saw them link- onpdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2582&c=samsung_gt-i5510
It neither has i5700 cpu (if you know i5700 wasnt able to run proper 3d games even worse than i5800 although it had better gpu) nor any 512 mb RAM. The origional specs are found on link- gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_551-3515.php
I dont blame you though cause many people know the wrong. This message is also for Szaby59.
"The specs that the mentioned about I5510 is totally wrong."
No, you can see here the complete spec, not just MHz: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2582&view=1&c=samsung_gt-i5510
CPU: Samsung S3C6410 downclocked to 667, then "Browse devices based on S3C6410" or http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdamaster&posted=1&cpu=a6410
And see devices...
"It neither has i5700 cpu (if you know i5700 wasnt able to run proper 3d games even worse than i5800 "
No it's the i5700 CPU, and can run 3D games with PROPER DRIVERS, which in Spica's case missing that's why i5700 can't run 3D games.
I5800 will never run any 3D game, because doesn't have the hardware to render it (ok you can play laggy white textures if it's enough for you).
I thank Szaby59 for taking interest in the thread. Now lets just gets rid off that i5510 (I have already tried my hands on it it has a slower UI than g3 and it has only 256 mb RAM not 512 mb as listed in your link but I am not sure about its CPU) topic it has gpu or not it dosent matters to us. We should think about galaxy 3. I actually a very big gamer yet I am in 9th grade only and have more than five years of extreme gaming experience. I am one of those guys who cant live without gaming even for 3 hrs. When I saw gameloft launching HD games for android I thought they would be supported on all android phones and resulted buying this crap. I already knew g3 had a bad gpu but my parents wont buy me a better phone.
Lets get down to the topic - Although g3 had problems with gpu I tried running some real 3d games on it and some of them even worked like raging thunder 2. Many people have problem running it on g3 and phones better than it. People usually see white textures on it but it ran it with full speed without any texture problem ( I going to upload its gameplay on youtube and paste its link here by tomorrow). Fifa 10 also worked on phone with only the texture of the field missing and rest of the details were ossom and the gameplay didnt lag. So after a plenty of research concluded that maybe the opengl drivers have problem rendering 32 bit textures just like spica. If there would have been a gpu problem rt2 wouldnt have ran so beautifully. So according to many people if its the gpu is weak then why does rt2 works on the phone? Please answer it.
What does it mean 'working' for you?
For me: good framerate, minimally 25 FPS, and correct textures.
In RG2 the whole car is a big white texture and lags.
If you wan't play some good game download angry birds or Sega Genesis Emulator and play old classics.
HD games maybe work, if the game doesn't require 3D accelarator.
Gsam101 said:
Since we have no one who could even build a AOSP build for our phone (Well, i'm personally trying, but it's quite hard to find doc), i don't think it will come..
But ask samsung on their open source website
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I Found this link of 3d drivers for the Spica, can it be modded on our G3.
http://forum.samdroid.net/f55/3d-driver-spica-1224/
http://forum.samdroid.net/f55/graphic-drivers-mix-3574/
For what?
Spica's CPU contains an OpenGL 2.0 ES 3D accelarator.
I5800 CPU only OpenVG and 2D.