Would that even be possible with a mod/cab? its silly to have a GPU which is not bad (its drivers are horrible though-thank god for xda devs for 3rd party ones) and running sense and the whole graphical menu from CPU and not render them from GPU..just look how much smoother are the phones that do (iphone, bb , droid )..if it is possible , could it be cooked into roms? because that would be so, oh so great..
Hmm..Quite a few views , yet no replies...Anyone here care to share their POV ?
I wasnt aware that the GUI is rendered by the phone CPU rather than GPU. But then again, does this phone have a dedicated GPU?
the gpu is part of the cpu, no? i thought it was all on one chip.
samsamuel said:
the gpu is part of the cpu, no? i thought it was all on one chip.
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True that...Yet i have read that winmo do not use the GPU acceleration to run/render the menu(e.t.c) graphics..this is my source (where i have read this)
:
Code:
http://www.techautos.com/2010/03/14/smartphone-processor-guide/
Why is the GPU relevant if I’m not playing games on my phone?
On most modern smartphone platforms (iPhone OS, Android, Palm WebOS, with Windows Mobile as a notable exception), the OS’ user interface itself is composited, meaning it is rendered by the GPU. This makes the interface feel a lot smoother than doing UI display calculations on the already resource-constrained CPU.
On the desktop, Mac OS X introduced many consumers to a GPU-composited desktop, and on the PC side, Windows Vista/7’s Aero interface provides similar functionality. Windows XP, even on a very fast desktop rig, generally never feels quite as smooth while, say, moving around windows, as Windows 7 or Vista running Aero. For the same reason, Windows Mobile 6.x, which uses a similar rendering mode (GDI) as XP and lacks a GPU-composited desktop, is going to feel laggy or rough compared to GPU-composited UIs.
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Click to collapse
Could there possibly be a tweak for this?or it is managed deeply into the os core , so it cannot be touched?
I'd be very suprised if it were possible to change the way the software works on such a fundamental level. At a guess, it would mean a rewrite of the OS so that anything sat on top of it automatically used the GPU when rendering for the screen. This is obviously not something that would ever happen.
That's just my understanding of the subject though, and I could be mistaken.
Heh..I know i am noob when it comes to winmo os utilization its no secret..I just thought it would be like a registry tweak to change the part used to process the image output ;p oh well..we never stop learning (and obviously have to begin from somewhere)
I actually thought Sense was already rendered by the GPU? According to the new Chainfire 3D driver - Sense is detected as being accelerated by the driver so must be using the GPU..
The snapdrgon gpu is the AMD Z430 no ?
paulrgod said:
I actually thought Sense was already rendered by the GPU? According to the new Chainfire 3D driver - Sense is detected as being accelerated by the driver so must be using the GPU..
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Click to collapse
sense is..and that is because it is created by htc , not microsoft (what a surprise lol ;p )you sir are correct..
Related
what do you guys think about the wm6.5 will it do good?
i think it will be a flop like vista. the os must be fast and react good so far i have seen the wm is now the baddest os. the android seems better the iphone os is on of the fastest that i have seen. why dont they start over again make a new kernel?????
for example the xperia has a lot of ram and mhz but it still react slow sometimes i had a htc elf and that was almost even fast as the experia how come.
maybe they have fixt it in wm6.6 but in barcelona they wheren't impressed the new interface was slow and crashed sometimes (ok i know it is beta).
i would like to run android on xperia
ok so let me hear your opinions
and sorry for my bad english
it use the same ce core wm have been using since wm5 == CE5
so don't expect better response or performance
and since it's a ui makeover more likely the opposite
wm7 will use CE6 so that may be a diff story
this is unlike vista vs. windows7 as they use the same core which is newer then xp and 2000 used
ok so you say the diff between 6.1 and 6.5 won't be so much. did microsoft told about the changes and diff between them? i'm very curious about it only thing that i see is a little bit changes in the ui (and is still not great) but they didnt say anything about performence for example.
Rudegar said:
it use the same ce core wm have been using since wm5 == CE5
so don't expect better response or performance
and since it's a ui makeover more likely the opposite
wm7 will use CE6 so that may be a diff story
this is unlike vista vs. windows7 as they use the same core which is newer then xp and 2000 used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say this, but even using the same core Windows 7 and Windows Vista have significant performance differences.
It is still possible that employing a different UI implementation tactic this version of WinMo could be improved, performance wise.
alias_neo said:
You say this, but even using the same core Windows 7 and Windows Vista have significant performance differences.
It is still possible that employing a different UI implementation tactic this version of WinMo could be improved, performance wise.
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Click to collapse
good windows mobile for me
8125 clanker running on wm6r5
I have an old 8125 clanker.
I upgraded from 6.1 to wm6r5 full final cooked by mfrazzz. It has limited memory resource (to start with: storage=25MB & Program=22MB).
I have it overclock to 240 MHz and using oxios hibernate.
I have installed other apps/plugins into a SD card.
I can run multiple apps that reduce the memory to 7-8 MB and find it very stable compared to when I was using 6.1. Of course, if I find my memory is to low then I will start to close other apps.
I am not sure how it relates to devices with 400 MHz with more memory. I could only guess that there might not be much improvement in performance, but for us with limited resource and slow processor I felt that there is beneficial improvement to move from 6.1 to 6.5
alias_neo said:
You say this, but even using the same core Windows 7 and Windows Vista have significant performance differences.
It is still possible that employing a different UI implementation tactic this version of WinMo could be improved, performance wise.
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Click to collapse
This is completely true. As many can attest, Windows 7's performance is much better than Vista. Likewise, I would imagine Windows Mobile has the same potential. Microsoft simply needs to tweak it for performance. The question is will they do it?
8525Smart said:
........ Microsoft simply needs to tweak it for performance. The question is will they do it?
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they have to! if they still want to sell wm... or else many phone manufacturers will use different os.
i found this on the blog of jkontherun
jkontherun
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=592663
do you guys think something similar will be necessary/possible for the nexus?
May or may not be necessary. I had an HTC TyTN II when HTC was refusing to put out a real gpu driver for windows mobile. It was a pain. But this being Android, I do not think that will be necessary. We will need to do some benchmarks and compare it to Windows Mobile and see if they are ballpark close. If not then we got a problem
https://www.codeaurora.org/index.php?qhep
might have some interesting stuff. They have an X driver that I havn't been able to get to build yet
The Nexus One, as shipped, includes OpenGL ES drivers that take good advantage of the GPU. Features such as the active wallpapers, homescreen app picker, Navigation in Maps, and so on make heavy use of the GPU, and the GPU is also used by SurfaceFlinger (Android's compositing engine).
Enjoy!
swetland said:
The Nexus One, as shipped, includes OpenGL ES drivers that take good advantage of the GPU. Features such as the active wallpapers, homescreen app picker, Navigation in Maps, and so on make heavy use of the GPU, and the GPU is also used by SurfaceFlinger (Android's compositing engine).
Enjoy!
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Click to collapse
are you suggesting that there is no need to improve the drivers like there was in the wm phones?
I can't speak for WM phones, but the state of the QSD8250 GPU driver for Linux/Android is quite good. We're working with Qualcomm to continue to improve it in future updates (software's never done), but I'm not aware of any horrible performance limitations.
As I know, IPhone 3G runs on 400 MHz processor (based on: CNet), while HTC Hero runs on 528 MHz processor, but as far as I knows, IPhone games are much more better and run smoothly, while games in Android devices like Raging Thunder 2, Super KO Boxing runs very lag in them. Can someone explain to me why?
Thanks in advance...
Most probably the dedicated/better graphic chip inside the iPhone then htc hero has. Plus, I think iPhone has programming language (C?) which is a bit faster then android's Java.
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
Dan330 said:
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhhhh I get it..... It make sense, Thanks for the answer.
There are three reasons:
1) The iPhone CPU has a built-in Floating Point Unit (FPU), whereas the hero CPU doesn't. This means that when doing mathematics involving real numbers with a decimal point (e.g. numbers like 1.23, 3.14159, rather than integer numbers like 1, 73 and 492363), the iPhone is considerably faster, probably by an order of magnitude. 3D games make a lot of use of that kind of mathematics.
2) iPhone programs are compiled to run directly on the iPhone's CPU, whereas Android programs compiled to run on a Java Virtual Machine, which in turn runs on the Hero's CPU. This extra level of indirection means that the programs run maybe 5 - 10 times as slowly as they could if they ran directly on the CPU.
3) The iPhone has a more powerful GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) - this means that it is capable of drawing more things to the screen in one frame than the Hero is.
all android phones dont have much internal storage so limates games
Sent from my aHero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Dan330 said:
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Java was supposed to be platform independand(spelling) in the beginning... oh well... the wonders of theory vs reality..
Most laggy games are laggy because of bad programming.
This can be observed in things like... 2 games/apps with similar graphics where 1 is not laggy and the other is. I've experienced this quite lot. You can make decent games with Java, especially in 3d, since it just calls "native" OpenGLES functions and doesn't have to do the rendering. If you need an extra boost you can make native libraries and supply them with your app... Of course you lose a bit of platform independence, but it's not a big deal and a mere cross compilation of that library away from porting an app to a new device with different processors.
PlanetTimmy said:
2) iPhone programs are compiled to run directly on the iPhone's CPU, whereas Android programs compiled to run on a Java Virtual Machine, which in turn runs on the Hero's CPU. This extra level of indirection means that the programs run maybe 5 - 10 times as slowly as they could if they ran directly on the CPU.
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Click to collapse
I think that's not the problem behind this. You can write critical code in NDK so you can achieve performance.. There's a lot of videos with motorola droid/milestone games. And they are working great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-XaaQXIxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlsfP38lSM
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=quake+3+motorola&aq=f
Motorola Milestone has a powerful GPU (PowerVR) and kicksoff the latest snapdron enabled devices.
qualcomm always delivered poor performance in their soc solutions..
+ qualcom msm7200A lacks FPU ... what a shame... screw you crapcomm and htc (for using cheap hardware, such as soc, display,etc). i'm keep wondering why htc doesn't lunch a true super smartphone with real GPU, high quality touchscreen, etc etc. And what's strange, even if they use cheap hardware their devices are more expensive than from other manufacturers ... hahaha
According to Microsoft QSD8250 is the chipset. Now how bad is it? I see people are saying it'd be better than HD2 since it'll have the perfect drivers from MS, but still wonder how this compare with the phone I am planning to get, Captivate, or an iPhone 4.
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?
rexian said:
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?
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Click to collapse
My guess: WP7 has been in development for quite some time, so at the start of development they choose the top processor that was available. But I think that this forum focuses to much on the processor and specifications, because in the end, the whole package must be convincing and that includes the operating system that has been optimized for this processor.
Furthermore, the current specifications will be the lowest common denominator for quiet some time (perhaps until WP8) and all apps will be optimized to run satisfactory on this specification (AFAIK the 20 second start-up rule for apps will be measured with the current specification). Newer processors may speed some things up, but the current hardware will be the target platform...
The development must have started before this chipset was launched, but you are right - this was most likely the target platform.
There are not many 3D games available though, the basic working will be fluid I know when I check at the store in few days. My worries are about the 3D games that will be launched later. If the experience with those is not as good as other platforms, MS will be in trouble. Better hardware will fix the issue in future but the reputation will be ruined and be stuck for a while.
Captivate is more powerful, mainly due to its GPU being about 4 times more powerful than the qsd8250s adreno200 gpu. Though, all WP7 devices will have better looking games since Captivate runs android... And everyone knows android games look crap, no matter how how powerful the hardware is (due to devs having to make their devices run on low end hardware to get more sales)
The IP4 is a better comparison because it's hardware and software have been fully engineered to run along each other, very much like WP7 devices. While it does have a more powerful GPU compared with the QSD, there wouldn't be much difference; the adreno 200 pushes about 22million triangles per sec, where as the sgx535 pushes about 28million triangles per sec. Whether developers even use all those polygons, I'm not sure I've seen.
Though epic citadel on iOS as well as this upcoming game called Aralon sure looks good.
Aralon link: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/10/oh-man-aralon-for-ios-is-gonna-be-good/
Thanks Cruzer. Now it makes sense. 22 mil vs 28 mil is not a big difference. Were they running at the same clock-speed? I hear A4 processor in iPhone 4 runs at ~800MHz, so may be they both perform in a similar manner.
Not sure how much the GPU is affected by the CPU. I think it's more to do about the speed of the actual GPU, but don't take me on that quote lol.
I have a Captivate and an iPhone 4. Im getting rid of both of them to get a HD7 or Focus. The iphone works flawlessly and isnt buggy in the slightest bit, the captivate is very choppy and i couldnt take it after a while with the lagging even after i upgraded to froyo. I would go with wp7 to be different and because it looks fun even if it uses an older processor. The hummingbird and A4 are both top of the line and its going to be hard to compete especially with each having a different os.
Writing this from my iphone 4
Hello!
This isn't relevant to hacking but I need to know about the AMD 8120 CPU, as if you guys are hacking windows 8 hopefully you'll be able to help me out here.
I'm building a new pc system but cannot seem to find anywhere on the internet if the 8120 has any sort of intergrated graphics?
Definitely not the right place to ask, but what the hell... the FX 8xxx series does not have any built-in graphics. There may be a low-end graphics chip built into the motherboard, however. Alternatively, AMD does have a line of CPU+GPU combined chips. They run a little underpowered as CPUs (even for AMD), being equivalent to Intel's i3 chips at best and usually not even that. However, they come with quite respectable middle-of-the-line GPUs, and for most games, that's what you need.
If you just need *some* sort of graphics and don't need it to be really gaming-quality, though, then you probably don't need one of those higher-end hybrids. I'd suggest that you look at the products on AMD.com, and do a search for motherboards with integrated graphics on your favorite product-comparison site (Newegg is my usual go-to, but I haven't bought much PC hardware in the last few years).
Adarzannh said:
Hello!
This isn't relevant to hacking but I need to know about the AMD 8120 CPU, as if you guys are hacking windows 8 hopefully you'll be able to help me out here.
I'm building a new pc system but cannot seem to find anywhere on the internet if the 8120 has any sort of intergrated graphics?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am an owner of an FX-8120. I can tell you like the last guy did that it doesn't have integrated graphics. It's an 8-core chip clocked at 3.2Ghz stock. Now granted, it may not have an GPU processor on the chip, but you can customize graphic settings to allow the chip to process all of the video rendering. Usually this results in poor performance as GPU chips are alot more efficient when processing graphics. I have a 560gtx and the 8120 clocked at 3.8ghz. I use the GPU to render. Honestly though, you should get a 2500k or an 2600k. I've had nothing but headaches with my 8120. It sucks alot of power, it gets really hot and it locks up quite a bit.