Database Users

Do you feel like a paying tester?

Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.

I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..........haha

Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.

The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.

My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.

drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.

People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.

Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?

eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?

drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.

Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.

prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .

Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.

I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!

TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.

HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.

UPDATED: Vodafone ARE pulling the handset from their product line!

Hi Guys,
This is all getting very interesting. Firstly let me state that i have an HD2 so this isnt one of those threads complaining about not getting one etc etc...
Mine has no issues whatsoever. The only problem i had was with the camera and this has been fixed completely by todays release of a camera update.
So... i have just read on the Vodafone forums that Vodafone will no longer be stocking the HD2!!!! This little snippet of info was posted by an official Vodafone rep.
I am now hearing similar stories from T-Mobile.
Is anyone here in know about whats going on? loads of rumours flying around at the moment....

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44113

MasterTP said:
http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44113
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Click to collapse
nice one mate.... thats cleared that up!
shame though... i was up for a bit of drama!!

oh dear... seems its not over... the post above was written yesterday whereas the following was posted TODAY by vodafone:
Hi guys,
Just to clarify, Vodafone stores are no longer stocking the HD2.
There is limited stock online, however once this has gone, there won’t be any further coming into stock.
All the best,
Jenny
eForum Team
check this thread: http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44210

lol this happens every time a new handset comes out.
Operator A says 'we don't have any as it's been recalled/firmware update/whatever' so you don't go running off to operator B.
I'd be amazed if this is being withdrawn from any supplier.

I'll believe what HTC (and common sense) is saying though..

im on the edge of my seat waiting to see what happens next tbh...
We should see an update from Vodafone posted soon in the thread i linked above.

Ok... its official... they've pulled it!!!!!
Hello everyone,
As promised, here's our update:
We won't be re-stocking the HTC HD2 for general consumer sales once our current devices sell out. There's been a great deal of interest since we made the HTC HD2 available to buy in November and our initial supply quickly sold out. With subsequent deliveries of stock we've prioritised the fulfilment of back orders for the device.[/size] Given the wide and expanding range of smartphones available to Vodafone customers, including the iPhone in early 2010, we're confident that we continue to offer the broadest range of devices to our customers, more details of which can be found at http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/all-phones
Kind regards,
Tom
eForum Team
Official Vodafone thread with this announcement here:
http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=43677

Praise the lord for o2

seems a very stupid decision on vodafone's part, especially as the official comment they seem to be giving to press is that there is no room for the HD2 amongst their current and future smartphone lineup. Surely they would have known what handsets they have and will be getting soon, they should never have sold the HD2 if they were going to stop selling it after a few weeks.

Glad I got mine when I did. But this is a terrible move by Vodafone. Why stop selling one of the best current smartphones on the market less than a month after you introduce it!

madindehead said:
Glad I got mine when I did. But this is a terrible move by Vodafone. Why stop selling one of the best current smartphones on the market less than a month after you introduce it!
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Click to collapse
...because it's pretty much a crock for the average user? Can't send SMS without problems, quality of calls audio chronically bad, almost impossible to type on due to the crappy keyboard and Win Mob is generally a nightmare for all but the most techy of people??

sunking101 said:
...because it's pretty much a crock for the average user? Can't send SMS without problems, quality of calls audio chronically bad, almost impossible to type on due to the crappy keyboard and Win Mob is generally a nightmare for all but the most techy of people??
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Click to collapse
Just spoken to a guy at Vodafone over the phone about this. He said this was the first he had heard about it. He also told me, that compared to all other phones, the people who phoned about problems on HTC phones was a LOT smaller than the list of people who phoned with problems on other ones.
And sorry sunking101, but have you used the HD2 for a prolonged period of time. The keyboard only takes some getting used to, because of the capacitive screen. Windows Mobile is NOT a nightmare to use. This is just a lot of crap spouted by review sites, tech blogs and Android and iPhone OS users.
Sure, it has some flaws. But most of these can be fixed. And Windows Mobile gives a LOT more functionality, which I think is worth a bit of getting used to.

mndl632 said:
seems a very stupid decision on vodafone's part, especially as the official comment they seem to be giving to press is that there is no room for the HD2 amongst their current and future smartphone lineup. Surely they would have known what handsets they have and will be getting soon, they should never have sold the HD2 if they were going to stop selling it after a few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably down to poor market research lol - they've obviously planned on the iphone selling like hot cakes when they get them and have totally overlooked the possibility of the HD2 flying off the shelves... my guess is that they have pre-ordered absolute tons of iphones that they'll have no chance of flogging if many of their customers get an HD2.
I have to say that I got one from them and that apart from the camera issue (obviously now fixed) I have none of the other major problems (touch wood it stays that way! ) - sms are fine, call quality is fine, keyboard is fine.

madindehead said:
Just spoken to a guy at Vodafone over the phone about this. He said this was the first he had heard about it. He also told me, that compared to all other phones, the people who phoned about problems on HTC phones was a LOT smaller than the list of people who phoned with problems on other ones.
And sorry sunking101, but have you used the HD2 for a prolonged period of time. The keyboard only takes some getting used to, because of the capacitive screen. Windows Mobile is NOT a nightmare to use. This is just a lot of crap spouted by review sites, tech blogs and Android and iPhone OS users.
Sure, it has some flaws. But most of these can be fixed. And Windows Mobile gives a LOT more functionality, which I think is worth a bit of getting used to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used it for around 2 weeks now and the keyboard is horrendous. There are certain features that I absolutely love - the screen for one, internet browsing, the decent You Tube app and internet sharing but the basic features of a mobile phone seem to have been forgotten by HTC. This phone is awful for calls (terribly loud even on the lowest volume setting and distorted, crackly audio), awful for texting (nasty keyboard, delays with SMS sending and receiving, plus occasionally texts going to the wrong person!!!) and the calendar is poor. The camera is ok in my book, as is the size of the device. It's just the basics it gets wrong and ultimately they're the most important for most users.

Fair enough mate. I personally, have had zero issues with call quality or texting. Sometimes a hard reset can fix those issues =p
The keyboard simply need getting used to.

To be honest I smell a rat here, I have had an HD2 now for about 4 week and it has been fine in fact it’s the best phone I have ever used. No problems at all.
I followed the HD2 for months on loads of forums and there seems to be a small but very vocal number of people going on about how god awful the phone is, how is has major problems and is a waste of time and money. Most of these posters are new to the forums that they post in and almost seem to have joined to have a go at the HD2. (sunking101 Join Date: Nov 2009)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583618
Now I know it’s not perfect and will have faults but to be honest I have seem this so often that I am starting to think it’s a campaign to put people off the HD2. This story seem to me to be more of the same, I find it hard to believe that Vodafone would go the trouble to test and clear the phone for it network only to stock it for what two weeks?

sunking101 said:
I've used it for around 2 weeks now and the keyboard is horrendous. There are certain features that I absolutely love - the screen for one, internet browsing, the decent You Tube app and internet sharing but the basic features of a mobile phone seem to have been forgotten by HTC. This phone is awful for calls (terribly loud even on the lowest volume setting and distorted, crackly audio), awful for texting (nasty keyboard, delays with SMS sending and receiving, plus occasionally texts going to the wrong person!!!) and the calendar is poor. The camera is ok in my book, as is the size of the device. It's just the basics it gets wrong and ultimately they're the most important for most users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two weeks and we've all had to put up with your trolling every step of the way. Given that nobody else seems to be suffering from all the problems that you are it's pretty safe to assume that you are the problem, not the phone. I'd recommend that you replace your HD2 with something simple like a Motorola RAZR that you won't find too confusing.

Audio Oblivion said:
Ok... its official... they've pulled it!!!!!
Hello everyone,
As promised, here's our update:
We won't be re-stocking the HTC HD2 for general consumer sales once our current devices sell out. There's been a great deal of interest since we made the HTC HD2 available to buy in November and our initial supply quickly sold out. With subsequent deliveries of stock we've prioritised the fulfilment of back orders for the device.[/size] Given the wide and expanding range of smartphones available to Vodafone customers, including the iPhone in early 2010, we're confident that we continue to offer the broadest range of devices to our customers, more details of which can be found at http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/all-phones
Kind regards,
Tom
eForum Team
Official Vodafone thread with this announcement here:
http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=43677
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm actually just noticed the bit that says "general consumer sales" so it could be that it's going to be for business sales only?

Isadora said:
That's probably down to poor market research lol - they've obviously planned on the iphone selling like hot cakes when they get them and have totally overlooked the possibility of the HD2 flying off the shelves... my guess is that they have pre-ordered absolute tons of iphones that they'll have no chance of flogging if many of their customers get an HD2.
I have to say that I got one from them and that apart from the camera issue (obviously now fixed) I have none of the other major problems (touch wood it stays that way! ) - sms are fine, call quality is fine, keyboard is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No doubt the iphone will sell quite well when it does come out on vodafone but in the store i work at for o2 we've had more people over the last couple of weeks ask about the hd2 then any other phone, so vodafone could lose quite a few customers who wanted the hd2 over an iphone as a result of this decision

[Q] Are you returning the phone?

After dealing with all the delays, non-existent support and updates and failed promises to ship the phone with next day shipping, I decided that I had tolerated enough and demanded my money back. Hopefully that is easy.
Here's why Dell Venue Pro sucks:
1. Too big. Usually big is a 'good' thing according to the trend of 2010. However, when it's big but also thick, it reminds me of my iPAQ from 12 years ago. With the Otter Case it gets even worse.
2. Horrible Camera. It's slow to activate unlike the Focus, and it takes blurry pictures even in just slightly dim light. I know that no camera phones can take pictures in dim light well, but DVP's camera is blurry even in a room during the day. My T-Mo G1 can do better than that.
3. No 4G. Just a UI change is not enough to switch phones and pay more per month as I had been using Android, and all the newest droids out there have way faster speeds that can even do video chat.
4. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
5. Thoroughly unhackable. No SD Card slot access. No tethering trick. No screenshot trick.
6. Bottom buttons are capacitive. Looking back, the dev phone was perhaps the only great phone because they have hard buttons for Back, Windows and Search keys. Using touch buttons for these important commands make the OS experience finicky. For example, it's too easy to hit the Bing button accidentally while taking photos. It was also way too easy to got kicked out of a game - and having the resume afterwards makes things worse.
7. No confidence left for Dell Mobility, or even Dell in general: They folded the mobile division already. Their updates for Dell Aero and Dell Streak took months and months to fulfill, so how will the DVP be any different? We had already suffered through the lack of information on shipping, and I would expect firmware updates not to be any different.
8. This thing crashes. Unlike some other users here, mine crashes even when Wifi is off. The crashes are all random and not confined to Marketplace or 3rd party apps. If Dell was not so irresponsible, I would ask for an exchange instead of a return, but this is a dealbreaker to me.
One thing I am glad about it is, I had waited long enough to find out about Samsung's Omnia 8, and probably better phones to come in CES and Mobile World Congress.
Thanks, Dell, for being awful, and ruining what would be a good phone.

I plan on giving Dell one more shot. I've been waiting a week now for my replacement. I'll wait for that replacement (even if it takes another week or two) and if the replacement is unstable or has any other problem then I'll return it and pick another phone.
You are right, this phone could be near perfect. It just seems that Dell rushed it.

I'm in the same boat. I love the phone except a few major problems.
1- WiFi Crashing
2- Bluetooth not staying connected
Below are WP7 issues
3- Cannot sync with Outlook
4-No mass storage
5- Cannot connect to hidden WiFi networks!!!!
I miss cut and past but can live without it I need the rest fixed if I'm going to be able to keep it.

rsacipher said:
I'm in the same boat. I love the phone except a few major problems.
1- WiFi Crashing
2- Bluetooth not staying connected
Below are WP7 issues
3- Cannot sync with Outlook
4-No mass storage
5- Cannot connect to hidden WiFi networks!!!!
I miss cut and past but can live without it I need the rest fixed if I'm going to be able to keep it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know....my WiFi lags but doesn't crash. My BT is fine. Outlook syncs fine, but I've been syncing cloud stuff fine. Storage, I have 16gigs. Will I use more..who knows or cares. Hidden WiFi...something strange about that. Its hidden for a reason, if dvp could see it, ITT wouldn't be hidden. Seems like homey reasons to quit to me. But then again , you're not me. I got what I expected. Is it 100% perfect? Nope...but I wasn't expecting it to be. I wonder if iphone4 people are returning it because of the alarm...to me the best reason to return a phone is...i don't like it. All other reasons show up on most other phones too... Just my opinion

this phone has more problems now that i think about it. but mines a keeper. i like the windows UI and the look of the dvp. its rare and you cant just buy it at, say, tmobile stores. =D

I love the phone but you know as much as I love it I can't use a phone that doesn't work. When I pay $550 for a phone I think the least it can do is work so as much as it kills me I called them last night and told them I want my money back. I gave them a week or so to see if they would give some responce to the problems posted on the forums but nothing which means they're not going to fix the problems or they're going to be real slow about it. And the whole 30days thing you guys have over here means I cant really wait around to find out so I'll have my money back thanks!
The problems I had with the phone were numerous:
- WiFi crashing constantly
- bluetooth constantly disconnecting from car kit
- 3G signal loss and complete network loss
- white noise in earphones
...and then to top it all off, and this is a WP7 issue more so than a DVP issue - however the marketplace works and because I used my old windows live id to setup the phone, M$ basically still think I'm in Ireland for whatever reason and as a result I can't download any of the good stuff eg: Netflix, LastFM etc... and some apps I download are for european region instead of US and so are completely useless to me.
Anyway all in all I had no choice but to get a refund. Bummer!

This venue pro will be going back for the same reasons which have been found in this post.
1. No 4G. Just a UI change is not enough to switch phones and pay more per month as I had been using Android, and all the newest droids out there have way faster speeds that can even do video chat.
2. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
3. Thoroughly unhackable. No SD Card slot access. No tethering trick. No screenshot trick.
4. Bottom buttons are capacitive. Looking back, the dev phone was perhaps the only great phone because they have hard buttons for Back, Windows and Search keys. Using touch buttons for these important commands make the OS experience finicky. For example, it's too easy to hit the Bing button accidentally while taking photos. It was also way too easy to got kicked out of a game - and having the resume afterwards makes things worse.
5. No confidence left for Dell Mobility, or even Dell in general: They folded the mobile division already. Their updates for Dell Aero and Dell Streak took months and months to fulfill, so how will the DVP be any different? We had already suffered through the lack of information on shipping, and I would expect firmware updates not to be any different.
6. This thing crashes. Unlike some other users here, mine crashes even when Wifi is off. The crashes are all random and not confined to Marketplace or 3rd party apps. If Dell was not so irresponsible, I would ask for an exchange instead of a return, but this is a dealbreaker to me.
I no longer feel confident with DELL. Furthermore, I dont like how we were treated throughout this launch, especially in a economy when spending 500+ dollars on a item is a luxury. I have purchased phones outright before and have never gone through a process like this.
I wanted to believe that this phone could of been more but if I wait until my 30 days are up I will be s### out of luck. I'll see what CES has up its sleeve.
This venue is definitely going back unless something miraculously happens with DELL or Microsoft regarding the phones OS. I doubt it though.

alodar1 said:
I don't know....my WiFi lags but doesn't crash. My BT is fine. Outlook syncs fine, but I've been syncing cloud stuff fine. Storage, I have 16gigs. Will I use more..who knows or cares. Hidden WiFi...something strange about that. Its hidden for a reason, if dvp could see it, ITT wouldn't be hidden. Seems like homey reasons to quit to me. But then again , you're not me. I got what I expected. Is it 100% perfect? Nope...but I wasn't expecting it to be. I wonder if iphone4 people are returning it because of the alarm...to me the best reason to return a phone is...i don't like it. All other reasons show up on most other phones too... Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone syncs with Exchange not Outlook, 16GB is good for storage if all you want is music and videos, forget if you want other files and there is no explorer to find files anyways.
My company hides their SSID as many companies do, if you have the settings you can connect and my WM5 phones would connect but I can't with the latest and greatest from MS while people at my company with Android and iPhones connect with no issues.
For the money I spent I wasn't expecting a beta unit because this thing was not ready for primetime.

I'm keeping my 8GB model. I don't have any crashing issues whether or not WiFi is on.
It would be nice if the cam were better and there wasn't some slight hissing through headphones during quiet segments of music, but neither of these are deal breakers to me. Supposedly Dell is working on updating the cam software, but again, not a huge deal to me.

It it going back.
Dell support is no good and rude, most don't even know what the DVP is. Every step of my dealing with dell has been a pain from getting my phone to the 4 hours it took trying to get it activated with the rep from dell who kept trying to get me off the line so he could "call me back."
The phone is very nice but so not worth the hassle. Dell has given me the worst customer service I have ever had, no way in hell I am gonna be stuck dealing with them for the next 2 years.
Mine for some reason would not turn on unless I popped the battery multiple times. Kept losing service on the 2g/3g switch, photos were absolute trash.
I will miss what could of been, but this thing is going back. On to my iPhone.

Thanks To You All
Hi Ladies and Gents
I'm fairly new to these forums and just wanted to say thanks to you all for the great feed back on the DVP!! I'm from Canada, and as you all know we can't get the device up here unless we provide a US address...I've been working around this issue which I finally resolved, and now for the past 2 weeks or so have been going back and forth between the DVP or a Nexxus S. I soooo love the form factor of the DVP, but have decided that it's to risky to take a chance on getting a somewhat flawless device to work up here...it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get either of these devices, so I want to make the correct choice the first time....I to have had issues calling Dell just to try and figure out how to ship the darn thing, and have been bounced around so many times!!! Their CS is garbage...none of them know anything about the device!! I was willing to get it even with the RAM issues and the no multitasking/cut and paste, but all the other issues are just to great of a hurdle to jump. I know the Nexus S has it issues but it being pure Google, I know the support will be there...
Thanks Again for making a very hard decision that much easier, and good luck to you all whether you keep your DVP or send it back!!
Cheers!!

pakkei said:
4. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not true, there is a symbol next to the (left) battery indicator, an arrow for caps and keep pressing the arrow button for caps lock, the icon changes
same way there is an icon for fn key

eyan15 said:
This is not true, there is a symbol next to the (left) battery indicator, an arrow for caps and keep pressing the arrow button for caps lock, the icon changes
same way there is an icon for fn key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip. I was used to Android where the indicator is right at the cursor.

Already shipped it back in favor of my nexus S. Got tired of the constant crashes and decided I didn't want to be an early adopter of W7
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!

alodar1 said:
think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Classic and spot on! The DVP isn't perfect, but its not the first, and won't be the last buggy phone to be released, and certainly if someone isn't happy with it they should return it. I tried an hd7, didn't like it and returned it, no fuss no muss. And I should say, I'm happy enough with mine and am keeping it, worst case scenario I use it for six months then get some other wp7 AWS device, if there ever is one.

alodar1 said:
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, this is your best point? An alarm clock?
How about WinPho 7 alarm not overriding the music volume and not even going off?
As for crashes I can count the amount of time my iPhone has crashed on 1 hand and the amount of time my nexus one has crashed on 2. I apologize if I want something to work when I buy it. The DVP wouldn't even power on in some cases without pulling the battery. I'm sorry but if the phone is a headache just to turn on then I don't want it. Perhaps you disagree, but there is no need to come in here on a high horse trying to dictate what we should expect from a phones camera, or general usage.
Do I expect a nikon?
No I expect something that can take a decent shot ala the iPhone/Nexus 1/Nokia N8. Obviously there are phones on the market capable of taking great shots,so why should I as a consumer expect lesser performance? If you like a half-ass phone then so be it.
It the DVP the worst phone on the market?
No there is much worst out there, but once again there is much better and as a consumer I am going to go with what is best. I returned mine and hopefully another company gets it right eventually. But honestly the argument that there are buggier phones is pathetic.

alodar1 said:
think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With this kind of reasoning you might as well be happy buying a Vertu.
"Hey, this thing takes photos, and can read gmail too!!!!!! I just like my Vertu. If you don't like it, you have a problem!!"
All that I said was that the DVP is bigger than I need, and the keyboard is not as advantageous as I thought it to be. The camera is objectively worse than many camera phones out there, and Dell does not inspire confidence on whether there will even be firmware fixes or not. It's all pretty logical, IMO.
Seriously, don't get offended when people compare it with iPhone or Nexus S. I already tried to be fanboy-sensitive by comparing it to Samsung Focus. But if my post induces potential buyer's remorse on you, it's not my problem. This thread is to be shared with those who already had our remorse.

I love this phone but am hoping that they fix the issues. Most of the bugs that people have should be fixable with a replacement device. The crazy thing is that the initial Engineering Sample that I had seemed to have the least issues. The 16GB model I have in my hands now crashes all the time so I am hoping that it is just a bad phone and when I get my replacement it works as expected.
I expect many will return their phones because of the whole exchange process which is frustrating to say the least.

personally as a non standard smartphone user i plan to keep the device barring hardware malfunction
not really a big talker or texter and i dont mind the crashes as long as they only happen once a day
i can see how a person might be upset though if they spent half a grand on a phone they can only use on tmobile that has issues
glad i didnt buy off contract even though ill be stuck on tmo for 2 years i can always get another phone that uses tmo bands at full price

Finally...some good news

Hello fellow DVP owners, I've been following all the issues we've had pretty closely and stalking DellCares twitter quite a bit. I know everyone has been focused alot on the issues with it but this is the first official word we've had that Dell is looking to address some of the issues.
emed795 Hi Erik, just wanted to let you know that DVP memory and other issues to be addressed in future sw update. No ETA yet. Thanks, AB 6:00 PM Jan 13th via CoTweet
im_thatoneguy Software update for DVP camera in progress, no ETA on it yet. Let us know how troubleshooting steps worked for you. SV 5:39 PM Jan 6th via CoTweet
Hopefully WiFi is also included in this update........

Saw the Twitter post. Hmm, well, another promise. Hope they do something. Of course, we'll have to go through the long, long wait, but this sort of goes with Dell's MO--problems addressed (in part) in the future. At least in my experience with them. It'd be nice to avoid problems at the get-go, but as they say, "Remaking the world, now that is folly."
At least they're not being adamantly silent about it.

Too little too late and still no mention of an international release. I've given up on that phone and everyone should at least until MWC. There are alternatives if you can't wait and if you can there will be stuff at MWC.

Peew971 said:
Too little too late and still no mention of an international release. I've given up on that phone and everyone should at least until MWC. There are alternatives if you can't wait and if you can there will be stuff at MWC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it. With the DVP being one of only 2 options for T-Mobile US users there really isnt much of a choice if you want a WP7 phone. You guys in Europe have more options to choose from, but if the issues are resovled it will be one of the best WP7 devices. And again MWC may bring new devices but I doubt they will be US bound so again the DVP still looks like a good buy to me. Even the camera can be made to produce good pictures with some adjustment of the settings, so this update will definitely be a plus.

efjay said:
The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it. With the DVP being one of only 2 options for T-Mobile US users there really isnt much of a choice if you want a WP7 phone. You guys in Europe have more options to choose from, but if the issues are resovled it will be one of the best WP7 devices. And again MWC may bring new devices but I doubt they will be US bound so again the DVP still looks like a good buy to me. Even the camera can be made to produce good pictures with some adjustment of the settings, so this update will definitely be a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What has the tech world come to when we pay for a premium product and we are forced to accept work arounds to get it to work. I understand that some fixes are always needed but most are usually software related (WP7 being new) but this device seems to have more issues that are directly related to the unit itself.
I have to say every time I hold one I am drawn to it but I have a hard time with a unit that costs this much and has these kinds of issues.
I hope that Dell can get the fixes out there quick so that we can get more of these in people's hands.

gshocker said:
What has the tech world come to when we pay for a premium product and we are forced to accept work arounds to get it to work. I understand that some fixes are always needed but most are usually software related (WP7 being new) but this device seems to have more issues that are directly related to the unit itself.
I have to say every time I hold one I am drawn to it but I have a hard time with a unit that costs this much and has these kinds of issues.
I hope that Dell can get the fixes out there quick so that we can get more of these in people's hands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your point but is there a perfect device? Even the phone to rule all phones (iphone) has issues (bumper anyone?), the WP7 OS itself has a reproducable bug on every handset with the MP crashing, yet we still use it. Problem with the Dell was the high expectations of the device since it was first leaked, then we had to deal with the release delays, shipping issues, virtually no communication from Dell and then after finally getting the device bugs that affected what could be considered fundamental functions. Probably led many to either give up and purchase something else or return it after receiving it and feeling it didnt live up to the expectation.
However the fact that I am happy to use a workaround does not mean I have accepted the faults and overlook them, I and others have contacted Dell and told them about the issues and as any decent company would they have responded with an upcoming fix (more than we can say for HTC and the pink camera bug on the HD7). This is what I would expect of any company and since Dell has responded I'm OK with a workaround till the fix is released. If there was another bug free device available to me I would have switched to that, but there isnt on my carrier so I still use it as I personally have no other option on T-Mo US. This whole saga could have gone better and will obviously be a factor in any future decision about purchasing a Dell smartphone but for now I feel satisfied with the choice I made, all things considered.

I think I am willing to be a bit more forgiving, given that I used to be a Software Developer. I understand the qualms of getting bugs fixed ASAP, but the SDLC doesn't allow it all the time. I am also willing to cut Dell some slack because the guys in the Mobility team have been awesome. Sure, customer service at Dell, as a whole, sucks monkey balls, but once they have you transferred to the right team, they're quite helpful. I think a huge issue for a lot of people is that they don't like talking to people from India, and then that's where all the bashing starts. I guess it depends on your tolerance level?!
If it is a concession, I spoke to someone in the Mobility team yesterday evening and they confirmed that these issues (camera, bluetooth, WiFi, etc.) are known and have been escalated. She did not know about how soon the update would roll out.
I think if they continue to communicate with us early adopters and roll out a software update to address some of these core issues, they'll at least have one happy camper on their side.

I am pretty patient with my devices these days, and with purchasing a first gen device (from a company with little experience in mobile) I am even more forgiving. Worst case scenario, I sell the phone and buy something else, lesson learned. From my experience with Dell (currently and past) they get fixes out, it just takes some time.
I won't be making any of those decisions on this phone until we see the issues with memory and camera fixed (WiFi is much less of an issue for me because I'm in a "4G" zone.) For now, I love the form factor, and I get more questions and "wow's" than anyone else when they see me pull the thing out with the giant DELL logo on the back (teh sex).

I'm generally happy; I have very few problems. The worst one was Monday the phone locked up while charging overnight so my alarm didn't go off.
I'm much more irritated by Dell's almost total silence on what issues they're aware of, which are being investigated, etc, etc. Heck, the twitter feed is the only confirmation we have that they even consider the RAM reports from the WP7 API an issue to investigate!
Still, the device is very responsive and performs very well as I suck its battery dry on Xbox Live, so I'll hang on to it and wait patiently for updates.
Thanks for pestering Dell for us!

efjay said:
The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you describe the workaround and what it fixes for you?

xthing said:
can you describe the workaround and what it fixes for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disable 3G in the Cellular settings, but I have had 1 crash with that turned off so it may not be a consistent fix.

That just made my week. Hopefully it comes soon.
efjay, I've been trying your workaround and I think it's working. Thank you!

Saitek009 said:
That just made my week. Hopefully it comes soon.
efjay, I've been trying your workaround and I think it's working. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to hear, don't know why it doesn't work for me anymore but hopefully Dell's fix won't be long.

[Q] Why isn't the DVP more popular?

I am interested in getting the DVP. It has 16GB comes with a keyboard and the reviews all seem to be very happy with it and the build quality
Which leaves me to wonder why isn't it more popular? The focus seems to be getting the most attention. Is it because the other phones are available on contract and the DVP is not?
Are there any issues I need to look out for? This will be my first Windows device. I am upgrading from a Nokia E71. My reasoning is that I will need to anyway upgrade later once the 2nd gen Mango devices come out a year or so later.
$250-$300 is my limit. What do you guys think? I live in India so contract phones are out for me.
Thanks in advance guys!

many reasons.
1. dell screwed up from the start with available dates. they kept pushing it further and further back. people got tired on moved on.
2. when they finally did ship to customers, the devices were plagued with horrible bugs which took forever to release an update.
3. this device cannot be found/seen anywhere but from dell.com. its not even in retail stores. Most t-mobile reps don't even know about this phone. On top of that most people don't want to buy something they haven't held in their own hands before committing $400 bucks (at that time).
4. there is no developers support behind this device. Chevron won't work on this device. etc. no registry hack. blah blah blah..
5. it is pretty thick, not to mention heavy, for a device at this particular time in technology.
its sad that the dvp is such an amazing device in terms of build quality. now that dell has fixed all those issues, its practically a flawless device. but because dell FU*ked up to begin with, that's what they get... thus having to liquidate their inventory just like HP sold all their touchpads for $100 bucks!
btw, the dvp wont work on t-mobiles unlimited $5 internet plan. the imei has been locked down. same goes for using with the att version under t-mobile as well.

lemonspeakers said:
many reasons.
1. dell screwed up from the start with available dates. they kept pushing it further and further back. people got tired on moved on.
2. when they finally did ship to customers, the devices were plagued with horrible bugs which took forever to release an update.
3. this device cannot be found/seen anywhere but from dell.com. its not even in retail stores. Most t-mobile reps don't even know about this phone. On top of that most people don't want to buy something they haven't held in their own hands before committing $400 bucks (at that time).
4. there is no developers support behind this device. Chevron won't work on this device. etc. no registry hack. blah blah blah..
5. it is pretty thick, not to mention heavy, for a device at this particular time in technology.
its sad that the dvp is such an amazing device in terms of build quality. now that dell has fixed all those issues, its practically a flawless device. but because dell FU*ked up to begin with, that's what they get... thus having to liquidate their inventory just like HP sold all their touchpads for $100 bucks!
btw, the dvp wont work on t-mobiles unlimited $5 internet plan. the imei has been locked down. same goes for using with the att version under t-mobile as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fix all those issues? They broke the compass and haven't commented on when they will fix it or whether or not they will be adding internet sharing over wifi.

Bongo2k said:
Fix all those issues? They broke the compass and haven't commented on when they will fix it or whether or not they will be adding internet sharing over wifi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uh oh. In that case I better stick to the Focus. A pity really I would have loved to get a phone with a keyboard.

I agree with Lemonspeakers' comments. Developing and producing a brand new cell phone has to be quite an expensive project, it is mind boggling why this phone wasn't marketed as well as the Samsung Galaxy series or at least the myTouch series. The only reason I can think of is that they knew the phone was rushed and that they couldn't adequately support it which was a big complaint by many XDA users. I'd love to know what Dell's R&D costs were and what their projected sales goals were and what the actuals are.
all this aside, I LOVE my DVP and Mango iced the cake. We have many different Android phones here are work and I constantly hear from the users about how they have to reboot on a regular basis. I've probably NEEDED to reboot my phone just a handful of times in the past 11 months. Everything about this phone is so smooth. The only thing keeping me from recommending it to a power user is the lack of (easy) ICS. I can't send out our mobile workforce with a device that can't be tethered to, they are too dependent upon internet access. Other than that, this is the best of the first generation WP7 phones without a doubt.

I agree with many of the comments above.
Dell seemed to have difficulties producing the phone and it also shipped with some nasty firmware bugs. One of these involved a DMA conflict between the SD card and Wifi. Using Wifi caused the phone to lock up - for me, Wifi was unusable until the end of July!
These issues were resolved a few months ago and my device is very stable and reliable.
Other things to be aware of are:
- the device is thicker / heavier than the Focus. However, you are getting a good keyboard, so this is understandable.
- the camera is mediocre and doesn't have image stabilisation hardware. Easy to blur photos if your hands aren't still.
- the phone will probably not support internet connection sharing, unless Dell are working on a secret firmware update
Personally, I think the DVP is a great device. If you would like a Windows phone with a keyboard, I can highly recommend it. In my opinion, the Focus and DVP are the two best first-generation devices, so you can't go wrong either way.

I love DVP's design and build quality, but why I cannot recommend this device to other people around me:
1) as mentioned, very bad camera for high end device. Did Dell's engineers even try to use this camera before they used it in the real device?
2) a lot of problems with the first devices, slow updates (...and it continues: non-working compass for example)
3) my DVP have some hw problem with volume buttons and display sliding, but my service tag is not valid (other users have the same problem), so I cannot send it back to Dell in this time
A lot of people wanted DVP when they saw it, but these problems forced me to not recommend this device to them, because its quality is roulette, not sureness.

Although I am using DVP, just do not use DVP. You will be disappointed.

I find it odd that everyone is so disappointed with their DVPs. I just got mine a few weeks ago after most issues have been resolved it seems. The only issues I have is my compass doesn't work (like every DVP on Mango) and the phone seems to be worse at holding a signal than my Desire Z. It's great otherwise, definitely worth the $200 it cost me. The other issues I have are with the OS itself, not with the phone.

yeungl said:
Although I am using DVP, just do not use DVP. You will be disappointed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would be more useful for the OP if you explain why.

Wouldnt swap it for any other WP7 device out now, personally. Great screen, keyboard, build. More than good enough till something special from Nokia arrives. Agreed though, botched launch, spotty support, limited availability make it a hard sell for some. If you need a solid WP7 device on the cheap though, still recommended.

efjay said:
Wouldnt swap it for any other WP7 device out now, personally. Great screen, keyboard, build. More than good enough till something special from Nokia arrives. Agreed though, botched launch, spotty support, limited availability make it a hard sell for some. If you need a solid WP7 device on the cheap though, still recommended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hasn't the lumia come out yet?
Sent from my GT-I5800 using XDA App

dilzo said:
Hasn't the lumia come out yet?
Sent from my GT-I5800 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not in a version compatible with T-mobile US 3G. So no use to me.

efjay said:
Wouldnt swap it for any other WP7 device out now, personally. Great screen, keyboard, build. More than good enough till something special from Nokia arrives. Agreed though, botched launch, spotty support, limited availability make it a hard sell for some. If you need a solid WP7 device on the cheap though, still recommended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understatement of the year. I loved my DVP until it proved impossible to crack and i had to violate my warranty to upgrade the memory, thats BS. YOu want a phone, don't buy a DVP.

lemonspeakers said:
many reasons.
1. dell screwed up from the start with available dates. they kept pushing it further and further back. people got tired on moved on.
2. when they finally did ship to customers, the devices were plagued with horrible bugs which took forever to release an update.
3. this device cannot be found/seen anywhere but from dell.com. its not even in retail stores. Most t-mobile reps don't even know about this phone. On top of that most people don't want to buy something they haven't held in their own hands before committing $400 bucks (at that time).
4. there is no developers support behind this device. Chevron won't work on this device. etc. no registry hack. blah blah blah..
5. it is pretty thick, not to mention heavy, for a device at this particular time in technology.
its sad that the dvp is such an amazing device in terms of build quality. now that dell has fixed all those issues, its practically a flawless device. but because dell FU*ked up to begin with, that's what they get... thus having to liquidate their inventory just like HP sold all their touchpads for $100 bucks!
btw, the dvp wont work on t-mobiles unlimited $5 internet plan. the imei has been locked down. same goes for using with the att version under t-mobile as well.
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Click to collapse
The DVP doesn't work on T-Mo prepay?
Sent from my phiremod for Nook using xda premium

im thinking about selling my atrix and buying this.. i had the HD7 before my atrix and i loved it.
personally do you guys even use the keyboard?
heres one for pretty cheap, dont know if its legit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Venue-...0923683910?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3a6c379046
also, all i am seeing about the mango update is you have to force it.. i dont like the sound of that, does that mean dell doesnt support this device anymore?
or do you think i should wait for the radar? looks pretty nice even though it has a smaller screen.

i use my keyboard whenever i have to type something that's more than a sentence or two. since i use mine for work i frequently respond to e-mails and i use the physical keyboard all the time.
The Mango update can be applied to the DVP without force, the DVP fully supports Mango.
the only thing holding back the DVP from being perfect is the lack of (easy) tethering

bbowman said:
i use my keyboard whenever i have to type something that's more than a sentence or two. since i use mine for work i frequently respond to e-mails and i use the physical keyboard all the time.
The Mango update can be applied to the DVP without force, the DVP fully supports Mango.
the only thing holding back the DVP from being perfect is the lack of (easy) tethering
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Click to collapse
Maybe bay this phone for any developer, maybe Cotulla, then he porting more system image for DVP

bbowman said:
i use my keyboard whenever i have to type something that's more than a sentence or two. since i use mine for work i frequently respond to e-mails and i use the physical keyboard all the time.
The Mango update can be applied to the DVP without force, the DVP fully supports Mango.
the only thing holding back the DVP from being perfect is the lack of (easy) tethering
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Click to collapse
i dont tether anyways, so that isnt a problem for me. radar is too expensive right now anyways.. for some odd reason. i would get the titan but the pixel density is ****. lol, it seems every WP7 has a draw back -_-

stratax said:
im thinking about selling my atrix and buying this.. i had the HD7 before my atrix and i loved it.
personally do you guys even use the keyboard?
heres one for pretty cheap, dont know if its legit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Venue-...0923683910?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3a6c379046
also, all i am seeing about the mango update is you have to force it.. i dont like the sound of that, does that mean dell doesnt support this device anymore?
or do you think i should wait for the radar? looks pretty nice even though it has a smaller screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the keyboard ALL the time. I never use the on screen keyboard. There isn't much reason to, you can even open the phone up with one hand. Typing on the screen with one hand could be faster though, but with 2 the physical is always faster.