Database Users

Do you feel like a paying tester?

Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.

I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..........haha

Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.

The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.

My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.

MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.

drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.

People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.

Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.

patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?

eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?

drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.

Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.

prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .

Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.

I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!

TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.

HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.

Hero rushed out the door?

So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!

Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?

I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...

We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.

Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..

I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.

While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber

Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!

and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.

Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber

the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.

The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber

Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )

crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan

Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???

If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.

I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.

RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets

Are all HD2s so unreliable?

Just sent my HD2 away for repair after only 32 days of use. Was working "fine" then all of a sudden the touch screen stopped working. tried reboot, hard reset and reflash without any change. to top it off O2 are no help. Had an iPhone for 18 months and had one or two issues but apple replaced the handset on the spot TWICE. The second time they replaced it the handset was 30 days out of warranty. O2 refused to replace the handset as its more that 28 days old! (4 days older!)
Hope when the phone comes back that this doesnt happen again otherwise i will be selling the HD2 and going back to the iPhone.
Has anyone else had similar issues?

lindsaydr said:
Just sent my HD2 away for repair after only 32 days of use. Was working "fine" then all of a sudden the touch screen stopped working. tried reboot, hard reset and reflash without any change. to top it off O2 are no help. Had an iPhone for 18 months and had one or two issues but apple replaced the handset on the spot TWICE. The second time they replaced it the handset was 30 days out of warranty. O2 refused to replace the handset as its more that 28 days old! (4 days older!)
Hope when the phone comes back that this doesnt happen again otherwise i will be selling the HD2 and going back to the iPhone.
Has anyone else had similar issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your real problem is with O2. Sure, the phone stopped working, but you can't blame that for the crappy response you got from O2. This is obviously why everyone recommends you get insurance, but 32 days isn't acceptable. That's definitely a beef with O2.

holy **** the whole forum is filled with troubles of the HD2.

Cause people are stupid, not the HD2, not HTC and not MS.
In this case, the problem is O2. Again, not the HD2, not HTC, not MS. Faulty devices may happen, that happens to iPhones, Droids and all other devices as well and as often.
I'm soo tired of those threads. People complaining about the simplest things, always blaming HTC and MS for everything. The most stupid thing they do is praise Apple or Acer or whatever other manufacturer, when in fact their phones have so much more problems (hairline cracks, scratched Apples, anyone?).

borgqueenx said:
holy **** the whole forum is filled with troubles of the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you think its bad here? just go have a look at the iphone section at macforums (or any section for that matter) and tell me if its just as bad here then!
BTW , hello everybody! new here (registered long ago but never posted) and getting my HD2 at the end of the month. can't wait

Mine is not UNreliable. It is very reliable in fact.
I have owned multiple HTC's and I think the only one that did leave me sometimes was the Touch Pro.
My HD and the HD2 are my most reliable phones ever owned.

It's the most reliable phone I ever had. Much more reliable than my iPhone 3G.
It's also the highest quality phone I ever had. No stupid shiny Apple on the back that gets scratched even without ever putting it on hard surfaces.
It's also the most powerful phone I ever had. Doesn't lack basic features like Smart Dialing, BT transfers etc.
In short: It's the best phone I ever had. And I pretty much had them all.
you think its bad here? just go have a look at the iphone section at macforums (or any section for that matter) and tell me if its just as bad here then!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like I said: Stupid people always blaming HTC and MS for the smallest issues while completely suppressing the fact that other phones from other manufacturers actually have HUUUGE issues compared to a few small glitches on the HD2.
I'm really so tired of this behavior.

I had handsets replaced after months of usage with o2. My previous phone orbit 2 has been replaced after 4 months of usage where scroll wheel broke.
Second time it was replaced a month before end of contract (17 months since I got it) when charging socket fell out. Yes it took a bit of time to send unit for inspection and get a reply what will happen (two weeks from posting to getting new one) but O2 side was quick.
Conversation:
"Hi my phone does not charge as charging socket fell out I need it replaced"
after that I gave my details
"Ok I will open a case for you and e-mail you details where to send phone for inspection"
"Thank you"
Phone sent and done.

plexat said:
Mine is not UNreliable. It is very reliable in fact.
I have owned multiple HTC's and I think the only one that did leave me sometimes was the Touch Pro.
My HD and the HD2 are my most reliable phones ever owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't have owned your HD2 much more than a month, so it's a little early to be calling it one of your most reliable handsets ever.

dont get me wrong. I have had HTCs before and all have been fine. My issue is mainly with O2's service and secondly with the reliability of my HD2 which has so far been poor. Really hope it does prove itself to be a reliable handset after this issue as it is a joy to use when its working.
Think i have got used to getting instant replacements for the iPhone and not used to being stuck with a nokia 2760 loan fone.

sunking101 said:
You can't have owned your HD2 much more than a month, so it's a little early to be calling it one of your most reliable handsets ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He could be comparing it to the 1st month of the other handsets he owned. He didn't say.

i was wondering when a new thread with this topic is gonna be created. it was almost time ! in the world there are two extrems. iphone the most reliable phone and hd2 the most unreliable one. having that said nevertheless i would not change it with any other phones out there. there is a say where i am comming from: the greater your rooftop the more snow you will have to shovel. this is the most powerfull os for mobile devices. if you are used ti iphone then i would really stay by it..
and why do people mention the iphone when they are complaining about hd2? i dont get it

freyberry said:
It's the most reliable phone I ever had. Much more reliable than my iPhone 3G.
It's also the highest quality phone I ever had. No stupid shiny Apple on the back that gets scratched even without ever putting it on hard surfaces.
It's also the most powerful phone I ever had. Doesn't lack basic features like Smart Dialing, BT transfers etc.
In short: It's the best phone I ever had. And I pretty much had them all.
Exactly like I said: Stupid people always blaming HTC and MS for the smallest issues while completely suppressing the fact that other phones from other manufacturers actually have HUUUGE issues compared to a few small glitches on the HD2.
I'm really so tired of this behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of the problems with the HD2 are indefensible actually mate. Sure other phones have problems too but we own HD2s....and that's what we're complaining about. I couldn't give two hoots if yours is perfect because mine isn't. I've had two....and am awaiting a doorstep swap tomorrow for my third handset. A catalogue of problems.

You misread my post. I said it's stupid complaining about glitches of the HD2 while suppressing the fact that other devices have much bigger issues (and their manufacturers do NOTHING about them, like the hairline cracks or scratched Apple logo on the iPhone).
So many threads where people blame HTC or MS for either isolated things like hardware faults or for their own stupidity, and at the same time hail Apple or others regardless of the fact that Apple's other companies' phones have a lot more issues.
I'm tired of those posts. And I couldn't give two hoots if your device is faulty, cause mine is perfect. So spare me your whining.
And by the way, I already have had my HD2 for exactly two months, that's enough to conclude that this is the most reliable smartphone ever.

freyberry said:
You misread my post. I said it's stupid complaining about glitches of the HD2 while suppressing the fact that other devices have much bigger issues (and their manufacturers do NOTHING about them, like the hairline cracks or scratched Apple logo on the iPhone).
So many threads where people blame HTC or MS for either isolated things like hardware faults or for their own stupidity, and at the same time hail Apple or others regardless of the fact that Apple's other companies' phones have a lot more issues.
I'm tired of those posts. And I couldn't give two hoots if your device is faulty, cause mine is perfect. So spare me your whining.
And by the way, I already have had my HD2 for exactly two months, that's enough to conclude that this is the most reliable smartphone ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had my Sony P1i for 26 months.....and had ZERO problems, so I would say currently it's the most reliable smartphone - certainly against your 2 month old HD2.

I said in my original post that it was the most reliable smartphone I ever had. Because it is.

stop complaining guys
NOM
nothing is perfect in this world. thats why XDA is here to make things almost perfect but "Rome is not built in a day friend" no smart phone was a huge hit out of the box.
if anyone cant wait / search / experiment this is not the right place
to be honest i will be getting my HD2 tomorrow but i had used all other HTC phones only because i know that XDA helps in almost every problem.i enjoy flashing roms every other day just finding the right one.
this forum, has been my favorite place. so many genious people are working for all of us to make things better
so not to be hard or hurt anyone , if u want to njy your HTC phone, please be patient, search and experiment.

g.lewarne said:
you think its bad here? just go have a look at the iphone section at macforums (or any section for that matter) and tell me if its just as bad here then!
BTW , hello everybody! new here (registered long ago but never posted) and getting my HD2 at the end of the month. can't wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a iphone 3gs and here are the complaints getting back:
scratched apple logo(happens to EVERY ONE) you wont be able to keep it scratchfree)
cracks in casing(about 30% of the users reporting this)
apple store approval team(they suck)
im member of 4 iphone forums and this forum got more problems then the iphone forums. Alhough stopid idiots always remain.
3 weeks ago there was a guy sending back his iphone because the backlight was to weak. He said he didnt try to fix it because he was still under warrenty. Lol...

Well, the HD2 definitely has less problems than the iPhone. And other than Apple, HTC is working on solutions.
The cracks and scratched logo were widely known problems of the iPhone 3G, and yet Apple shipped the iPhone 3GS in the same low quality casing. Quality-wise, iPhone vs. HD2 is like Dacia vs. Bugatti.

actually dacia aint too bad! but seriously, i still hear nothing but complaints from iPhone users and yet they will defend apple to the bitter end. Why? all they do is pump out poor quality expensive phones using yesterdays technology yet people still "would die to have one".
the iPhone is for people who dont know any better. HTC is for people who do know better.
EDIT: would just like to add that my Nokia 3310 that i have lying around is far more capable than the iPhone at actually doing what the apple products do, making and recieving calls. even in the most marginal of signals it naver fails to make or recieve a call.

Should we be thinking of ways to get rid of it?

-No win7 support , although even though our hardware if far supperior to the win 7 devices currently
-horrific support (HTC has to be nobel price winning at sucky support)
-battery life is amazingly bad..some members here report success with alternative chinese batterie types, but come on we paid our bottoms off for the thing we shouldnt have to bleed our eyes out on 3rd party web merchant pages
-its being discussed that we are not even going to get 6.5.3 or 6.5.5 upgrades even though omnia II and toshiba models will(or have dunno)
-millions of buggs that shouldnt be there in the first place
-lack of supported apps
-overpriced marketplace
Such a mixed feeling..I truly and deeply love the device i hold in my palm as i write this..but its like i am holding the hand of a relative in a hospital dieing..is truly HTC gonna give away the future of such a brilliant phone?have we payed 50% more of the value of the competitor's phone(iphone) price and go nowhere (while they get their free os 4 upgrade) ? i feel so decieved..i even got to thinking ways i could cheat for my warranty to get my money back..
-edit : forgot the 250ms sound delay woe issue (one of the reasons we bought this cursed phone was to watch movies in its perfect screen dammit)

You got what you paid for, the hardware is already surpassed by the Evo 4G, in a few months time it will be even farther behind, such is the way of tech. WP7 was never promised, only speculated so that is not a valid argument.
Your other reasons are otherwise sound to varying extents, but at the end of the day this is still a fantastic device, so no, I dont think anyone who bought the device and is happy should be looking for ways to get rid of it. If you dont like it, return it or sell it but it works very well for a large number of us.

So that the fact that they do not even care enough to upgrade it to something as idioticaly as simple as 6.5.3 version (hich like 40 roms in here have) doesnt make u feel they are throwing the phone support (that made me laugh) away?
And no, i do not get what i paid for..i paid nearly 800$ for this..no not even marginaly close to it.

chris2busy said:
So that the fact that they do not even care enough to upgrade it to something as idioticaly as simple as 6.5.3 version (hich like 40 roms in here have) doesnt make u feel they are throwing the phone support (that made me laugh) away?
And no, i do not get what i paid for..i paid nearly 800$ for this..no not even marginaly close to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I agree totally with your view of HTC support, I actually think they are the worst phone manufacturer among WM OEM's, contrary to what everyone else thinks because they like the eye-candy of Sense, which I think is utter bug-ridden rubbish.
HTC has the HD Mini out now, you would think they would be releasing 6.5.3 updates for all their phones, especially the HD2, but this is typical HTC, once a device is released the normal support life cycle is 6 months, then we are left to our own devices while they work on the next device. In the current climate, HTC is apparently focusing entirely on their android phones, so we WM users are left to look on and lament our lack of updates.
As for getting what you paid for, I guess we will have to disagree, I never expected HTC to provide an update to 6.5.3, knowing their past history and considering they never announced it. I knew I could only count on the OS they shipped the device with, and anything above that would likely come from Xda.
You have a great device there, the hardware is top notch and capable of outstanding performance, just dont look to HTC for any kind of realistic support. Xda is your friend and will give better support and performance enhancements than HTC ever has.

chris2busy said:
-No win7 support , although even though our hardware if far supperior to the win 7 devices currently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Win7 was *never* officially an option, only rumour. Do you buy things due to hearsay? Theres an iPhone for that.
chris2busy said:
-horrific support (HTC has to be nobel price winning at sucky support)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never needed this so cannot comment - think of that what you will
chris2busy said:
-battery life is amazingly bad..some members here report success with alternative chinese batterie types, but come on we paid our bottoms off for the thing we shouldnt have to bleed our eyes out on 3rd party web merchant pages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the standard battery, it lasts between 1.5 and 3 days. Thats better than my Nokia E90 and my N80 ever was.
Not to mention the fact I have 3 email accounts checking every 15 - 30 minutes, Windows Live (hotmail in the background), at least 30 mins 3G browsing, some light games and texts + calls.
chris2busy said:
-its being discussed that we are not even going to get 6.5.3 or 6.5.5 upgrades even though omnia II and toshiba models will(or have dunno)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"(or have dunno)" proves that you are yet again working on rumour, why not do some research before slagging things off, eh?
Have you actually used 6.5.x? What did you think of it? How much advantage will it give you over 6.5?
chris2busy said:
-millions of buggs that shouldnt be there in the first place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*any* complex system will have bugs, its a given. It needs to support several hundreds of different device configurations, 3rd party applications and different personalised configs. How many bugs does Linux have, for instance?
chris2busy said:
-lack of supported apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many supported apps does the iPhone have in amongst the thousands of crap free ones?
chris2busy said:
-overpriced marketplace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to Microsoft.
chris2busy said:
Such a mixed feeling..I truly and deeply love the device i hold in my palm as i write this..but its like i am holding the hand of a relative in a hospital dieing..is truly HTC gonna give away the future of such a brilliant phone?have we payed 50% more of the value of the competitor's phone(iphone) price and go nowhere (while they get their free os 4 upgrade) ? i feel so decieved..i even got to thinking ways i could cheat for my warranty to get my money back..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to be stuck in a mindset which goes against that of technological advancements over the last, say, 50 years.
The computer you buy tomorrow was out of date last week, that surround sound system you've got, that's been surpassed several times since you bought it.
You do realise that the iPhone OS upgrade was to insert features that most phone companies have been producing lines of phones with for almost a decade?
Cut and Paste for instance, was first used (in a computer sense) in a Xerox environment in the 1960s, Apple's iPhone was announced in 2007. It didn't support it until an OS upgrade. The first Windows PocketPCs in the mid/late nineties had it as standard.
The iPhone's hardware is 50% of the capacity of the HD2, maybe you did get what you paid for?

Ur point seems truly valid, but dammit thats not what i signed up for..(even though it was contract reneweal bonubs 650$ bonus to get new phone) this is no way to treat a heavily paying customer..and i am not obligated to know the tradition of customer handling of each company each time i buy a phone..i know the phone is amazing , but its dead..truly dead..and mark my words when in a couple months the new candies come to surface no1 in xda will care to develop roms in this long dead phone....at least those 800$ taught me 1 thing i guess ..never buy anything from htc again

chris2busy said:
.i know the phone is amazing , but its dead..truly dead..and mark my words when in a couple months the new candies come to surface no1 in xda will care to develop roms in this long dead phone....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have seen the various forums on xda supporting WinMo5 devices,haven't you?

rp-x1 said:
You have seen the various forums on xda supporting WinMo5 devices,haven't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u still cant tell its not unofficial support thats my problem?really?

chris2busy said:
Ur point seems truly valid, but dammit thats not what i signed up for..(even though it was contract reneweal bonubs 650$ bonus to get new phone) this is no way to treat a heavily paying customer..and i am not obligated to know the tradition of customer handling of each company each time i buy a phone..i know the phone is amazing , but its dead..truly dead..and mark my words when in a couple months the new candies come to surface no1 in xda will care to develop roms in this long dead phone....at least those 800$ taught me 1 thing i guess ..never buy anything from htc again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HD2 is far from dead.... there will be people making roms and writing apps for it for years still. It's gonna be known as the last great WinMobile phone. It will remain as the best WinMobile 6.5 device, and for that fact, I think it will last longer than most phones do.
There are still people supporting phones from 5 years ago on these forums.
What is it that you signed up for? Nothing was promised for this phone other than what came with it. HTCs customer service sucks, but they make some great devices, and with them we get XDA support here! Thats much better than the support any other oem gives, imo.

chris2busy said:
u still cant tell its not unofficial support thats my problem?really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you specifically mentioned XDA developing ROMs, now you're complaining about official support?

rp-x1 said:
But you specifically mentioned XDA developing ROMs, now you're complaining about official support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this was a comment because imho past devices were not as promising as the imminent are..nevertheless my problem is that i the services that came with my purchase feel like being molested..absolutely no future in it from the developer's end..i really dont know if its that typical of HTC to manage in that manner, and if it is is till do not know why this company still exist.

Got what I wanted!
I researched for months, got what I wanted, & what they said it had! Runs smooth, no bugs,"except audio booster" Would not trade for wm7, don't like how it will hold you down. I also pd alot for mine!! But I'm still sooooo happy. Love it. Sounds like you need to trade every month to try to keep up? Quig

chris2busy said:
I paid nearly 800$ for this..no not even marginaly close to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They must have seen you coming!!!

lquigley said:
I researched for months, got what I wanted, & what they said it had! Runs smooth, no bugs,"except audio booster" Would not trade for wm7, don't like how it will hold you down. I also pd alot for mine!! But I'm still sooooo happy. Love it. Sounds like you need to trade every month to try to keep up? Quig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i am happy for you in all honesty..but i ,as hundrends of other members in here still have mega issues like lip sync or ufo like battery drain that even manifacturer cant identify, sms problems, music playback lags, incredible bluetooth battery drains sluggish video recording and many more..and thats the second hd2 i get after warranty return.

chris2busy said:
well i am happy for you in all honesty..but i ,as hundrends of other members in here still have mega issues like lip sync or ufo like battery drain that even manifacturer cant identify, sms problems, music playback lags, incredible bluetooth battery drains sluggish video recording and many more..and thats the second hd2 i get after warranty return.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Issues mentioned in forums are negatively biased. People with problems are more likely to come here and post their problems as opposed to the many people who are not having problems.
Secondly, if you want to troll, do it on MySpace. April 2010 join date, seriously? If you don't like your phone, sell it and be done with it. Stop whining because you didn't have the common sense to read the labels on what exactly HTC is selling in the HD2. HTC is a phone manufacturer. Ergo, their job is to keep selling phones, even if it means phasing out past models. If you do not agree with this business strategy, go with another company that suits your needs.

How many 1000's are in use?
You have to realize how many of the hd2's are in use! I wish someone would count the number of people on these forums that are having problems, since they come here to get fixes. Not too many people go to forums, if everything is working ok. We have over 7000 members on htchd2forum.com the % is pretty clear, most are great!! Think about it,"if your car runs ok, do you go to dealer & tell them? If it is giving you trouble ,you call,complain, go in, get it fixed? HUH? wierd concept!! Sorry, got going,, I like this phone better than anything I've ever had!! But that is"me" not "you"! Goodluck,,Quig

PoisonWolf said:
Issues mentioned in forums are negatively biased. People with problems are more likely to come here and post their problems as opposed to the many people who are not having problems.
Secondly, if you want to troll, do it on MySpace. April 2010 join date, seriously? If you don't like your phone, sell it and be done with it. Stop whining because you didn't have the common sense to read the labels on what exactly HTC is selling in the HD2. HTC is a phone manufacturer. Ergo, their job is to keep selling phones, even if it means phasing out past models. If you do not agree with this business strategy, go with another company that suits your needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I GUESS I really didnt know the HTC way of thinking...apple and android seem to get it a lot different..although they state 6.x phone support is not halted it indeed is..no upgrades,no updates,no nothing...i guess i should start flashing or im stuck with the ton of problems bundled in my handheld

I dont see the point in making these kind of thread. What will u get from these?
If u have problem, then try to search and solve it.
If u dont like the phone, then try to sell it.
Is it easier to feel better than making these threads and have most of people tell that u wrong here?
As far as I see, most of people who complain about their devices are people who just joined in to ask and complain. They messed up with their phone then try to get people to help them fix it. This phone is just amazing and works out of the box.
Let's compare the ones that have problems with the ones that dont, who only focus on flashing and trying roms. Maybe at a rate of 100 and 10000?

Hey guys!
I think chris2busy actaully does like the phone, but he is probably just really fustrated with the lack of support. I mean, usually, wouldnt it make sense that if you had issues with a certain product you have purchased from a certain company, then u should get all the support from them(Mostly). But for me, this forum is my support.
Also, I too agree with the point that why on earth,after paying so much money, do we have to rely on third party apps to tackle issues that shouldnt really be there in the first place? I mean, why doesnt it just simply work right out of the box? Dont get me wrong, i love customising my phone, but these customisations should really be for "customising" our phones with what suites us & looks good in our eyes....not to fix issues that HTC/WinMo shouldve done. I still love my HD2 but these are just some things we ALL couldve done without......
Finally, No, we shouldnt be thinking of getting rid of this phone as its "Kick Ass!"
(watched the movie last night, so still in that mood!)

I do not like this moaning and groaning, It has been posted recently that it takes time to know your new device. If you're not willing to spend that time, then stop harrassing us/this forum with your "complaints". By the way: what's the point of your post anyway?

My review of the X10

Here my honest review after a couple week of use, I wont talk about the current update issue to 2.1 or 2.2 since I want to talk about the device in is current state.
Pro
-The design and quality of the device is very good in my opinion, it does fell very solid and simple to use. 9/10
-The screen is great, color, response, size and brightness make this device ideal to watch movie on the go or surf on the web .There is no multi touch so far, but honestly I don’t think it’s an issue, the screen is very responsive and work like a charm. 8/10
-Camera 8.1 megapixel, I was not impress at start, strange flash manner and picture quality not as great as I was expecting. Then I did play with the setting, it made a crazy difference. Picture now are crisp even in low light condition, details are nice and seriously now I can see myself use it as my main camera now. The flash always on don’t really matter, since its only turning on when you are about to take a picture no big deal and it really does help ,since the focus can adjust itself properly with the light already present then. Bottom lines don’t be shy try different setting play with the camera you won’t regret it. 8/10
-Call quality, while not the best is quite acceptable, I can hear people and they can hear me pretty well to even in a noisy environment. It’s certainly not perfect, but still better then most of my previous device.
-Multimedia, the sound quality is great, sound level is decent and with a proper headset will give you a great listening experience. I tried the same Mp3 at 320 kbs with my Sony MDR NC22 on different device, itouch 1 and 2 gen, Iphone 2 gen and my ipod classic, I did not see any difference .Video playback is nice and fluid and will definitely better then the itouch/iphone for the quality of the picture. 8/10
-Application, most of the normal user will find happiness, yes there is an apps for that, you will find apps for stuff you did not even know you could need before. Lots of apps are free or very cheap to buy.
-Connectivity, Nothing crazy there the device perform like it should, Bluetooth, wifi gps is quite standard now on most devices. They work quite well and you can expect them to work the way they should. 7/10
-Keyboard, some people wont like the oem one but in my opinion its not an issue since a dozen alternative exist and the market and you will definitely find one to please you. Swype won me and I would never use anything else now. 8/10
Cons
-Sony Ericson support, luckily you have lots of great online forum to find the help you need, otherwise you will be stuck in some mindless phone conversation and crazy back in forth email. 1/10
-Software update, the blame here is part fault from SE part fault from Carrier let me explain. Major upgrade coming from SE are very few, their road map is very limited so far, still they do make small update to fix most of issue the device have, problem is, most of carrier don’t push these update .Some like Rogers don’t even plan to make these small update available to their user , waiting on the big one to do anything. Carrier is the main issue, even if SE where to release 2.2 on the x10 tomorrow , 80% of the population will still never get it unless they temper their device. 5/10
If you did keep up with my awful French Canadian writing, I can say this: Overall it’s a great device; most of people will be pleased and won’t regret their purchase.
SE did not made any false promises so far, the unit came with lots of great feature and the quality of the hardware definitely will matter more then the Os shortcoming for most user. The rest of the people like me will expect a little more from their device and might feel frustrated to see similar device from other brand doing more with similar spec. I still wish SE to be more proactive and to understand the need of their entire customer, not just the lambda one.
Its all depend of your need and expectation, even with a technically outdated Os the device is quite stable, and unlike other mobile I had in the pass. It’s been on for 7 day now, not a single issue; SE did a pretty good job in that matter.
In a practical view, this device might not be great for game because of the lack of multi touch but as a work phone and multimedia device its definitely is a great contender. More users friendly then the blackberry, can handle heavy load of email, don’t look like a trendy toy like the iphone and still discrete while looking fantastic.

good revieuw! nice to hear sombody who is happy with the device.
instead of the bashing posts...
I'm very happy with my x10 as well, i have the white one.
and the overal experience is same like your's.

Hi. Think you've got it pretty much spot on with the exception of one small point about SE not making false promises... They said over four weeks ago that there would be a software update 2 weeks from then.... And still nothing in the UK. I'm on a factory unbranded handset by the way.
Other than that I'd agree with your thoughts and I too love my new toy!
-------------------------------------
Sent from my X10i

im_iceman said:
Hi. Think you've got it pretty much spot on with the exception of one small point about SE not making false promises... They said over four weeks ago that there would be a software update 2 weeks from then.... And still nothing in the UK. I'm on a factory unbranded handset by the way.
Other than that I'd agree with your thoughts and I too love my new toy!
-------------------------------------
Sent from my X10i
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, yeah but thats not SE faulth. they released the .16update.
but in my country (belgium) its also not avaible. don't know why tough.
i have also an unbrandet version.

The .16 update came out ages before they made this announcement.. the update referred to in the announcement is different.. and how can it NOT be SE's fault?>

im_iceman said:
The .16 update came out ages before they made this announcement.. the update referred to in the announcement is different.. and how can it NOT be SE's fault?>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when SE release a update its possible that the carrier don't wanne release it.
because they don't think people need this... so SE release't the update but some SE user's don't get the update. people go to SE there for
but i taught it was about the .16 update. so my mistake.
i hope the update will come soon then!
and give SE a chanse, they made statments that they will provide plenty off fw update's for the x10. so i trust them, but iff they ditch me now its bye bye SE!

I still wish to fight for the 2.2,still a SE tech told me carrier was a major problem,since they want to test each update before implement them.Therefore most of them to save cost just wait for the big update 2.1 .
I have to be realistic,we wont see 2.2 this year because of this but i do still believe in the petition i started,just the goal have slightly changed,i just want to make sure i will receive the 2.2 .
Still at the end of the day,no matter what SE will do if company like ROGERS continue to screw up their customer nothing will change.

I got my handset from "Phones4U" in the UK and it came unbranded so it should get updates as soon as SE release them.. I think if anyone is really desperate for the updates then unbranding is the way to go..

i am wondering why he review on a forum that only Xperia 10 user would come usually.
It is very simple. For canadian who have no access to American's market (meaning those who don't want to brother buy phones off Ebay or anything else).
Xperia 10 is the best choice around until next year May at least.
Canadian technology catch up at a rate slower then turtles walk across a street.
You are not going to expect iphone 2 nor Evo 4g coming to canada this year to the very least.

Causes most of the user will search online and read quite a bit before buying any device and American market? What the hell are you talking about?
There is quite a choice on the Canadian market; most of carrier carries a good selection of android device.
Last times I check every major city have shop selling unbranded and unlocked unit for people not wishing to buy online……