Database Users

due upgrade in August - which Android handset?

Guys,
upgrade time is august 2010, so am starting initial research now!
have the G1 - am a convert to the android os now - am more and more on google (the dark side!?) and want to stay on the same os (or another google developed one).
Can anyone give me a heads up nwhat is due for a summer release (or earlier) that is a handset that is going to kick frikkin ass?!
wisdom highly appreciated!
al

put it this way dude, we just started getting rumors about the nexus one two months ago. theres no possible way we could know what kind of cool gadgets we'll be seeing by august. doing research now wouldnt do you any good whatsoever.

thanks for that.
just looking at the nexus one - looks like i need to 'mature' and face up to the future being (real) keyboardless - read that there was a survey where they compared iphone k/b with a regular pda one and there was no speed slowdown on the the 'real' one.
well, looks like it's early days and the handset releseases between now and summer might be numerous!
al

Yea it seems a lil early to start your research.

Well good to start waking up to the tech changes, looks like things have changed since G1 days.
Nexus does look slick, I'm wondering what could be even better thasn that.
cheers gang.

I'm due for my upgrade in October. I decided three months ago I'd do my research in October.

little_rock said:
there was no speed slowdown on the the 'real' one.
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Right... because a real keyboard will be *FASTER*, not slower.
A few points;
- testing typing speeds using test subjects who don't know the location of buttons (i.e. inexperience) will only give you invalid results.
- you ever notice with a dream, that even though you have both, that you STILL switch to the real keyboard occasionally? Probably every time you need to type more than about 10-20 characters. This is because fake keyboards are uncomfortable and inconvenient.
- fake keyboards are difficult to use since you MUST LOOK at it -- a real keyboard can be used by feel alone. Note: It is considered extremely bad practice to type while looking at the keyboard -- you're supposed to look at the screen/paper (in the old days) and watch the words as they come out, not at your fingers.
- ever try mixing letters and symbols using a fake keyboard? You need to constantly switch between multiple keyboard layouts.... the "letters" layout, and the "numbers"/"symbols" layout(s).
Note also that the GN1 is *just one* device. Take as an example the motorola sholes -- its pretty similar to the GN1, but has a real keyboard.

Hey guys,
resurrecting this post because it's not long now before I'm due an upgrade!
I've been tracking the nexus 1 - cant see anywhere it saying its coming to T Mob (who I really would like to stay with).
In your opinion which is the downright bestest android powered handset out there?
Saw my buddy's HTC Desire the other day it looked kickass!
Ideally I like the idea of getting os updates straight from google, ie without having to manouvre round waiting for htc to stich together Sense happy andoid updates.
what are your thougts guys?
best,
Al

for what its worth
i went to radio shack on saturday for the free upgrade(tried to get the 3g slide for free) and the tmobile rep(not a radio shack employee) said the HD3 would be out by christmas. HD2 only running android. He was speaking pretty assuredly about it.
I told him I'd believe it when I saw it. =P

Its all about the Dell Streak for me. I was eagerly awaiting, but skipped, the Nexus one knowing that it would be playing catchup in less than a year, and viola here we are, 1.2x GHz devices are already coming down the pipe and 2GHz chips (Nvidia Tegra anyone?) are already being shipped to manufacturers with some promising products by year's end.
I'll actually be buying the Streak outside of my upgrade (meaning the regular price) use it lovingly for a period of time and sell it for near what I paid for it and leveraging my upgrade for the 2.xGHz near-desktop-spec uber resolution devices coming out in 2011.

G Zero said:
Its all about the Dell Streak for me. I was eagerly awaiting, but skipped, the Nexus one knowing that it would be playing catchup in less than a year, and viola here we are, 1.2x GHz devices are already coming down the pipe and 2GHz chips (Nvidia Tegra anyone?) are already being shipped to manufacturers with some promising products by year's end.
I'll actually be buying the Streak outside of my upgrade (meaning the regular price) use it lovingly for a period of time and sell it for near what I paid for it and leveraging my upgrade for the 2.xGHz near-desktop-spec uber resolution devices coming out in 2011.
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1GHz vs 1.2GHz.... the difference is NEGLIGIBLE.
2GHz nvidia.... hmm let me think about that for a minute.... NO. nvidia is NOT open source friendly. They should be avoided like the plague. They are also TERRIBLE in terms of manufacturing quality (their chips fall apart due to heat/cool cycles), and they are TERRIBLE when it comes to EFFICIENCY (their newest GPUs won't just cook your breakfast, they'll burn down your house while they're at it!)

Just thought I'd update this thread - Am plumping for the Desire HD methinks.
if Droid X was going to be released in uk this century it would be a tough call... but it doesnt look like it is for now..
so DHD ere we come"

lbcoder said:
1GHz vs 1.2GHz.... the difference is NEGLIGIBLE.
2GHz nvidia.... hmm let me think about that for a minute.... NO. nvidia is NOT open source friendly. They should be avoided like the plague. They are also TERRIBLE in terms of manufacturing quality (their chips fall apart due to heat/cool cycles), and they are TERRIBLE when it comes to EFFICIENCY (their newest GPUs won't just cook your breakfast, they'll burn down your house while they're at it!)
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They're talking about Tegra, not Fermi... And the GPU problems was only the mobile 8600 chips for LAPTOPS, not desktops or Tegra. It was simply a bad run, all manufacturers go through this, including Nvidia's main competition, ATI (early 4XXX series anyone?)... I think you don't entirely understand what open source is, the only thing about Android which is open source is the base OS, everything else is closed (IE: all the hardware and their drivers)...
Tegra is very promising and absolutely smokes both the Snapdragon and Hummingbird in terms of power efficiency, and GPU speed. The problem right now with Tegra is the actual CPU is a fair bit slower than both the Snapdragon and Hummingbird, but considering that it will be able to offload CPU tasks to the far superior GPU VIA CUDA (Its currently not able to), it should hold its own very well once they refine the software.
In the end, we need much better battery life more than anything and that's what Tegra is bringing, I can't wait until they start sticking Tegra into smartphones.

d3v14n7 said:
They're talking about Tegra, not Fermi...
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Comparing engineering QUALITY here.... fermi makes heat like Chernobyl when it should be running MUCH MUCH MUCH cooler and wasting less power. They have no excuse except poor engineering. If you aren't smart enough to make a desktop discrete GPU run within sensible bounds, how can you possibly make a handheld super-efficient handheld chip run any better? Answer is that nvidia lacks the combined intelligence to make ANYTHING RIGHT.
And the GPU problems was only the mobile 8600 chips for LAPTOPS, not desktops or Tegra.
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No, it was across ALL their products, but most NOTABLE in their laptops because the temperature swings are more dramatic where the cooling is much more limited.
It was simply a bad run, all manufacturers go through this, including Nvidia's main competition, ATI (early 4XXX series anyone?)...
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No, it wasn't a bad run, it was a BAD MANUFACTURING PROCESS.
** which they never actually fixed.
And there were no such issues with R700's. There were some problems with the R100's or possibly R200's though...
I think you don't entirely understand what open source is, the only thing about Android which is open source is the base OS, everything else is closed (IE: all the hardware and their drivers)...
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YOU are apparently the one who doesn't understand open source or the nature of Android. Just because SOME DEVICES ship with some BLOB components does NOT mean that ALL MUST. Take Android on OPENMOKO for example: FULLY OPEN.
And do you realize that the kernel driver for adreno has ALREADY BEEN RELEASED OPEN SOURCE by qualcomm? That is FAR FAR ahead of nvidia in terms of open source already.... More is probably on the way (after all, AMD has released the programming docs for R300 right through R800, which covers the IP in adreno 2xx), but sometimes this takes time.
Tegra is very promising and absolutely smokes both the Snapdragon and Hummingbird in terms of power efficiency, and GPU speed. The problem right now with Tegra is the actual CPU is a fair bit slower than both the Snapdragon and Hummingbird, but considering that it will be able to offload CPU tasks to the far superior GPU VIA CUDA (Its currently not able to), it should hold its own very well once they refine the software.
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1) Tegra is GEFORCE 6 -- no CUDA.
2) Tegra isn't a phone chip -- it is a TABLE/NETBOOK chip... so it might be a bit less power hungry than, for example, a powervr SGX, but against an adreno on similar manufacturing techniques? Not a chance!
3) Tegra may perform better than some OBSOLETE qualcomm chips, but compared with one of equal generation, i.e. MSM7230, and Tegra starts to look stupid.
4) The results you've no doubt seen place Tegra about 5-10% ahead of QSD8250 with ADRENO200, but the MSM7230 has an ADRENO205, which is 400% faster than an ADRENO200. Combine that with the fact that the 7230 is a 45 nm chip where the 8250 was a 65... you can only legitimately compare things of equal technological age. In other words, I DON'T CARE if a tegra is faster than an 8088! They're separated by 30 years of advancement!
The 7230 power consumption is FAR FAR FAR less than the 8250... so any comparison between... for example, tegra2 and MSM8250 is MEANINGLESS.
In the end, we need much better battery life more than anything and that's what Tegra is bringing, I can't wait until they start sticking Tegra into smartphones.
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Have you even bothered to look up the HTC VISION's expected battery life? HTC is claiming standby time of 430 **HOURS** -- near 18 days of standby! GN1 was 250 hours, or just over 10 days, so whether these numbers are accurate or not, I think we can figure on a 72% improvement in running time.
Oh, and did I mention that the VISION comes with a SMALLER BATTERY?
So... with equal batteries, the VISION would jump up to (430/1300)*1400=463 hours = 85.2% more efficient!
Hmm... tegra anyone?
Old news.

The future of the Nexus S

Every day new smartphones come out. Faster phones. Better phones. Slicker phones. Especially since Google introduced Android, the smartphone market has got a big boost. Before you know it, your o so special phone isn't so special anymore. You are getting more and more jealous, and then you can't resist anymore. After using phone 1.0 for half a year, you decide to buy phone 2.0, which is faster, better and slicker.
This is probably a recognizable story for some people. Still having the same phone after two years is not done. Besides, getting jealous is inevitable. The trick as a manufacturer is to create a smartphone that is special enough to last even if there are other phones that are faster, better and slicker. Inventing such feature is very hard. If you bring a phone on the market with a dual-core processor today, you can't expect it to be special after a year.
Remaining special is a very common problem for smartphones. You can't prevent phones from getting more advanced technology, but you can try to delay the 'aging' for as long as possible. People will always be complaining though. And within this forum, I've seen this attitude more than ever. For the Nexus S, the 'aging' seems to begin even before the phone is for sale. A 1Ghz processor isn't very special when dual-core's are lurking around the corner. Therefore, the most common question on this forum is 'which phone is better, the Nexus S or ...?' The snag is to buy a smartphone that will last as long as possible. This topic is about the question how long the Nexus S will last.
Faster
Speed is the most important feature of a smartphone. We don't want lag. We want fluent animations, fast multi-touching and smooth browsing. The 1Ghz processor in the Nexus S is certainly not new. In fact, the Nexus One even had a 1Ghz processor, although that was a Snapdragon, and not a Hummingbird. Where the processor in the Nexus One was something new, in the Nexus S it is not so special anymore. Yet the Nexus S is very fast, certainly faster than the Nexus One. It is the fastest device on the market, for the moment at least.
This year will bring us a lot of dual-core phones. Will the Nexus S be outrunned? I don't think so. It is already fast. There is no feature that really needs a stronger processor. Maybe battery-life will be improved with dual-core, but regarding speed, I am not worried. The only thing you need a better processor for, is games. It is going the same way as it did with computers. You don't need quad-core to browse on the web, use Google Maps or edit a Word document. The only reason computers are getting faster and faster is because of the gaming industry. It will go the same way with smartphones. I personally don't need to play big games on my phone. Why would I want that? The screen is too small, and a touchscreen isn't very gaming-friendly. Besides, I have a Xbox 360 at home. I only want to play games like Angry Birds, and Worms on my smartphone. Games you can play in the bus, train or while waiting.
I would rather see every single flash game on the internet playable on my smartphone, then better processors to be able to play games that are more fun to play on my Xbox 360. At the moment there are no features that need a dual-core processor, at least not for me.
Better
You can't be special with speed. If you bring out a 2Ghz dual-core device, you can be sure that within a couple of months somebody else will also bring a 2Ghz dual-core smartphone on the market. An option is to invent your own screen. Samsung has got his 'Super AMOLED', for example, and Apple got the 'Retina' display.
The Super AMOLED on the Nexus S is pretty good. Vibrant, high-contrast colours appeal to a lot of people. Sure, there are some (including me) who like the sharper and more realistic LCD, but you can't say Super AMOLED isn't beautiful. The Nexus S has actually two versions, also one with Super Clear LCD. This is nothing more than a pimped S-LCD, but it's pretty nice, looking at the Samsung Wave II.
But new displays continue to be invented. Super AMOLED plus is coming, as is Sony's 'Reality Display' with Bravia technology, and LG comes with the crystal clear (at least, that is what they claim)
NOVIA display. Whether these displays are really that nice remains to be seen. You can name it whatever you want, in most technologies I don't see much difference.
Is there any threat for the Nexus S regarding the display? Not more than for any other device. The Super AMOLED and the Super Clear LCD are both very good displays, and I don't see anything special enough invented in the next two years that makes the display of the Nexus S look rubbish.
Nexus
As already mentioned, more than ever people seem to complain about the Nexus S. Complaining stems from dissapointment. Dissapointment stems from expectations. And the expectations of the Nexus S were pretty high. This was mostly due to the fact that it's a Nexus, an Android's flagship. The Nexus One had the same expectations. At that time, the whole Nexus-line was unknown, but it was known that the Nexus One would be a 'Google phone'. It was assumed that this possible iPhone Killer would have top-notch hardware and would be very special. The Nexus One was a good device indeed, but not so special as previously thought. There is, of course, a small group who loves the Nexus One, and I may be one of them. But it didn't have the kind of specialty that people where hoping for.
Being special doesn't seem to be the point for a Nexus. I think it's supposed to draw a line. A Nexus shows what Android is capable of at the moment of sale, but that doesn't mean that it got to have the latest hardware.
Anyway, the same mistake people made with the Nexus One, is now made with the Nexus S. The expectations where just to high. I don't think you need the latest hardware to make a good device, but if you don't come up with something special, people will be dissapointed.
P.S. I'll finish this topic later

I think you're missing a key point: if you're a device manufacturer, you prefer that people buy your new products every six months rather than every two years. They only make money when you buy a device. Not that I think there's some massive conspiracy to keep phones behind the cutting edge, but if there were some way they could make a phone so fantastic that you'd never want another phone again, I doubt they would want to sell it.

for what i use a phone for, the ns hardware should be fine for quite a while. android software is what i don't want to be outdated on. shouldn't be an issue with the ns.

you forget that those dual core phones wont be out for 3 or 4 months

To me, it seems like you wrote that whole essay trying to justify your purchase.

zorak950 said:
I think you're missing a key point: if you're a device manufacturer, you prefer that people buy your new products every six months rather than every two years. They only make money when you buy a device. Not that I think there's some massive conspiracy to keep phones behind the cutting edge, but if there were some way they could make a phone so fantastic that you'd never want another phone again, I doubt they would want to sell it.
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It's not a conspiracy, it's called business sense. There's little money in making and selling a perfect, everlasting product. That is the reason incandescent light bulbs last only 1000 hours and inkjet printers screech to a halt after exactly 5000 pages. It's planned obsolescence.
It's also the reason I went for the Nexus S. It doesn't come with planned obsolescence. Google will keep the updates coming much longer than any manufacturer or carrier. If Samsung had updated my I5700 Spica to Android 2.2, I wouldn't have bought the Nexus S. I would even have been willing to pay for the OS update.
Mokurex said:
To me, it seems like you wrote that whole essay trying to justify your purchase.
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To me, it seems like you're trolling.

shrivelfig said:
To me, it seems like you're trolling.
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How so? All he does was saying, "Oh there will be phone with better processor & display than the nexus s but i don't need it." You might not want a quad core processor in your pc, but is it better than a dual core? Yes. So what's the point of this?

Mokurex said:
How so? All he does was saying, "Oh there will be phone with better processor & display than the nexus s but i don't need it." You might not want a quad core processor in your pc, but is it better than a dual core? Yes. So what's the point of this?
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Of course it's better, but more important is how MUCH better it is. Where do you need it for?
Oh and by the way, I do not own a Nexus S

I agree that this is a great phone and will be for quite a while. The things that I will be looking for in my next phone, which will likely replace my G2 before this, is a better camera, 5mp is good, but not great, especially once theyre on a computer. I know some people will say well if you want a better camera buy one, and I do have an SLR for real picture taking, but the technology is there to put better cameras in smartphones and Im glad Sony is trying to incorperate that.
Aside from the camera im not sure what else could really make me think 'this phone isnt good enough'. Of course I'll still probably buy 3 more phones this year because I really enjoy trying the latest and greatest in phones but for the average person I think this phone is more than good enough to last the 2 years of their contract.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Androyed said:
Of course it's better, but more important is how MUCH better it is. Where do you need it for?
Oh and by the way, I do not own a Nexus S
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You said yourself that technology is moving at a very fast pace. Even though android right now doesn't take advantage of the these dual core processor, how would you know that google wouldn't optimize future version of android to fully take advantage of the dual core. This would render device with these newer processor, a faster and smoother experience. With that in mind, saying that dual core processor is not needed isn't exactly a future-proof way of thinking.
ps. I apologize for saying that you're trying to justify the purchase if you didn't own one in the first place.

Mokurex said:
You said yourself that technology is moving at a very fast pace. Even though android right now doesn't take advantage of the these dual core processor, how would you know that google wouldn't optimize future version of android to fully take advantage of the dual core. This would render device with these newer processor, a faster and smoother experience. With that in mind, saying that dual core processor is not needed isn't exactly a future-proof way of thinking.
ps. I apologize for saying that you're trying to justify the purchase if you didn't own one in the first place.
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You are right, of course they will optimize it for dual-core. But the question is, do you need it? If your device is already super fast, will there really be a big difference with dual-core? What is faster than super fast? So, untill they bring out a feature that really needs it (except for games), I don't need dual-core. Because the Nexus S with 1Ghz is already amazingly fast, with virtually no lag.

One thing I see people overlook is that the nexus s is indeed a Google phone with updates straight from Google,all of Google's mobile division is behind this phone aswell as the nexus one. I dont know about you but I'd rather have the support of Google making updates for my phone first and having their Dev teams useing the phone I currently have (nexus s) than having a shiny new LG 2x with the oh so great tegra 2 which is the fist iteratation of dual core tegras and with that a little unproven and android isn't really optimized for it yet so it really has no ground apart from Smoother gaming,video play back and web browsing. In the end I would love a dual core nexus but you have in your hand I phone that can do almost everything your p.c can is that something to complain about?

Androyed said:
You are right, of course they will optimize it for dual-core. But the question is, do you need it? If your device is already super fast, will there really be a big difference with dual-core? What is faster than super fast? So, untill they bring out a feature that really needs it (except for games), I don't need dual-core. Because the Nexus S with 1Ghz is already amazingly fast, with virtually no lag.
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If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.

Mokurex said:
If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.
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You think upgrades only make things more processor intensive? Check out Windows 7 compared to Vista plz.
Jeez guys.
First off. Tegra2 is barely better than the Hummingbird. These aren't super phones. They're just great. Wait for the dual core snap dragon and dual core orion. Then Hummingbird and Tegra2 will both be "weak".

Yes, upgrade from vista to 7 isn't more processor intensive, but we're not talking windows are we? I'm sure all of us here can agree that from the video that google posted, honeycomb will use more cpu than gingerbread.
Btw, we're not arguing, it's called constructive argument =)

Mokurex said:
If the nexus s will always be on 2.3 then yes the hummingbird processor will be plentiful. Did you see the new honeycomb ui that google demoed at CES? That fluid looking ui seems to use more processing power than even the live wallpaper on stock 2.3 launcher. When the nexus s gets honeycomb, will if still be super fast? What about ice cream? If let's say android 4.0 implements more eye candy, im sure it won't be as smooth anymore compare to these new dual core.
This is assuming you won't change phones when these newer version of android comes out.
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Click to collapse
Um that was the tablet version of Honeycomb I am pretty sure the phone version will be different. And I am pretty sure that google is testing all of their future updates on the Nexus S until a new Nexus device is released so all future updates will be optimized for the S...

yea dual-core phones are coming out but so what. I'm good with my nexus S which will do jussst fine. I can guarantee you the next nexus device will pack a dual core processor. Until then, i'll keep nexus S and purchase the G-slate.

Having used the NS for the last 3 weeks, it clearly is a step up from the N1 in terms of performance. The screen is absolutely great and the extra real estate is nice to text on, but my biggest beef with the phone is the build quality.
Clearly, Samsung and Google could have done more. I would have been happy using the NS for the next year if Samsung would have used the material of their new phone, the Infuse, on the NS.

SupaDupaFly24 said:
Um that was the tablet version of Honeycomb I am pretty sure the phone version will be different. And I am pretty sure that google is testing all of their future updates on the Nexus S until a new Nexus device is released so all future updates will be optimized for the S...
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Exactly. And untill then, the Nexus S will be just as good as those dual-core phones, at least for me. Of course, when a new Nexus is released, it will be a lot faster. I think even after a new Nexus is released, the old ones will still get updates for so long they actually 'update' something, and don't make the device slower.
Not only you should buy a Nexus because you get updates fast, or 'normal', as I prefer to say, but also because it just works well. The Nexus S has the same processor as most Android phones, but yet it manages to be a lot faster? It's not magic. It just works well.

Until an android pure phone comes out I don't even look at any of them. I would rather buy a WP7 then a UI and bloatware.

Ipad2 killed my Epic!!!

Well not really I just thought that would be funny. This is what happened after reading on gizmodo that the ipad2 demolished the xoom in glbenchmark 2.0 I had to check for myself. Theres no ****ing way that pos ipad does that well against tegra. I know that ios doesnt support multitasking and what not. I basically feel ios is more efficient with hardware. Just like macs require less cpu speed then a windows pc to do the same task. Doesnt mean windows or android sucks, they just work off completely different architechtures. But Ill be damned if those numbers are true. I base this not because of how high the ipad scored against the xoom but how close xoom scored compared to ipad1...
theres no ****ing way tegra performs so poorly against the ipad and its powervr535. Same damn chip in the evo. My epic rapes the evo in gpu. We all know it. So according to that test tegra isnt really much faster than powervr535. This to me is bull**** so I decided to run glbenchmark 2.0 to see how i fared compared to the tabs. I checked off all the tests. Went back to my psp to play some ff9 and when i look back at my epic theres a responseless black screen with the touch sense buttons lit.. WTF?!?!?!? It started vibrating and still doing nothing so I pulled the battery. Restarted and I was taken to the touch android to begin screen followed by a ****LOAD of force closes...
Anyone got any idea? I'm just gonna reflash no biggie but thats ****ing weird.
btw..
AOSP clone 2.2 is the rom yo.

Actually the ipad 2 does kill tegra for the same reason our phones match it in real word tests. The powervr sgx543mp gpu in the ipad is a multicore version of what is in our epics. Tegra may have two cpu's but the gpu's in tegra are only on par or barely better than our epic's sgx540. Since I don't know of any tasks on a phone that really benefit from the extra cpu power afforded by two cpu's I will skip over tegra and try to base my next cell phone buying decisions based on gpu and ram not cpu.
Too often people neglect the fact that ram and gpu power are the real limiting factors to system performance.
Edit: Just fyi the evo's 65nm snapdragon uses an adreno 200 gpu. Droid x uses an sgx535 as does the iphone 3gs, 4 and original ipad. The sgx 535 is about half as powerful as the sgx 540 in the epic and the adreno 200 is about half as powerful as sgx535 or one fourth as powerful as our sgx540. The adreno 205 in the evo shift, g2, mytouch 4g and inspire 4g is roughly on par with sgx535.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

love how the op said epic gpu rapes the evo gpu. Lol.

RushAOZ said:
Well nor really I just that that would be funny. This is what happened after reading on gizmodo that the ipad2 demolished the xoom in glbenchmark 2.0 I had to check for myself. Theres no ****ing way that pos ipad does that well against tegra. I know that ios doesnt support multitasking and what not. I basically feel ios is more efficient with hardware. Just like macs require less cpu speed then a windows pc to do the same task. Doesnt mean windows or android sucks, they just work off completely different architechtures. But Ill be damn if those numbers are true. I base this not because of how high the ipad scored against the xoom but how close xoom scored compared to ipad1...
theres no ****ing way tegra performs so poorly against the ipad and its powervr535. Same damn chip in the evo. My epic rapes the evo in gpu. We all know it. So according to that test tegra isnt really much faster than powervr535. This to me is bull**** so I decided to run glbenchmark 2.0 to see how i fared compared to the tabs. I checked off all the tests. Went back to my psp to play some ff9 and when i look back at my epic theres a responseless black screen with the touch sense buttons lit.. WTF?!?!?!? It started vibrating and still doing nothing so I pulled the battery. Restarted and I was taken to the touch android to begin screen followed by a ****LOAD of force closes...
Anyone got any idea? I'm just gonna reflash no biggie but thats ****ing weird.
btw..
AOSP clone 2.2 is the rom yo.
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Click to collapse
Uh, the Tegra 2 is garbage. I dont know why people think its all high and mighty still. Its literally a joke at this point. It got DEMOLISHED by the A5 and PowervrSGX543MP2 less than 2 weeks of making its mass market debut. LOL. Also, its incapable of playing high profile h.264, something that the ORIGINAL iPad could handle fine. Its junk. I will be avoiding all Tegra 2 products.

lynyrd65 said:
Actually the ipad 2 does kill tegra for the same reason our phones match it in real word tests. The powervr sgx543mp gpu in the ipad is a multicore version of what is in our epics. Tegra may have two cpu's but the gpu's in tegra are only on par or barely better than our epic's sgx540. Since I don't know of any tasks on a phone that really benefit from the extra cpu power afforded by two cpu's I will skip over tegra and try to base my next cell phone buying decisions based on gpu and ram not cpu.
Too often people neglect the fact that ram and gpu power are the real limiting factors to system performance.
Edit: Just fyi the evo's 65nm snapdragon uses an adreno 200 gpu. Droid x uses an sgx535 as does the iphone 3gs, 4 and original ipad. The sgx 535 is about half as powerful as the sgx 540 in the epic and the adreno 200 is about half as powerful as sgx535 or one fourth as powerful as our sgx540. The adreno 205 in the evo shift, g2, mytouch 4g and inspire 4g is roughly on par with sgx535.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just one correction the droid x and droid 2 use the omap 3 chip which has a sgx 530 not a 535

So no one got the part where glbenchmark killed my phone? lol I just loaded bonsai and the same thing happened.
Back the tegra issue. even though vr543mp is better and dual core it still doesnt ake sense that tegra and vr535 score so closely. Theres a much bigger margin or performance between 535 and 540. Also I apologize for mistaking adreno 200 to vr535.

How did you install gl benchmark? You sure it wasn't malware?

I downloaded it off theyre web site. Im pretty sure it isnt malware lol
Alright so after doing a bit of research i now know tegras gpu performance compared to other chips. Anandtech also has an article pitting tegra against hummingbird and tegra came out on top but not by much at all. I think this needs to be retested once galaxy tab 10.1 is out. I keep reading everywhere that xoom isnt optimized like it should be. That vr543mp is amazing. **** the ipad im waiting for ngp lol

RushAOZ said:
I downloaded it off theyre web site. Im pretty sure it isnt malware lol
Alright so after doing a bit of research i now know tegras gpu performance compared to other chips. Anandtech also has an article pitting tegra against hummingbird and tegra came out on top but not by much at all. I think this needs to be retested once galaxy tab 10.1 is out. I keep reading everywhere that xoom isnt optimized like it should be. That vr543mp is amazing. **** the ipad im waiting for ngp lol
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Click to collapse
Are you in denial that that Ipad2 is still better for now? Like it or not apple has been on the cutting edge in terms of portable media. I am not sure how old you are (and i don't want to base it off of your post) but if you get a chance apply to apple and take a tour of their facilities. They have very talented help so its not surprising that they can come up with such efficient designs.
I maybe mistaken, but the epic was the first phone out that actually had higher specs then the iphone. I love my phone and after 2.2 with EXT4 my phone is everything i want it to be. Waiting 6 months for it is not my cup of tea though.

I don't like apple for my own reasons. Before this amazing phone I have called the epic I owned the iphone 2g 3g and 3gs. I was an apple head. Not a blind one... but I the time I knew there was nothing better. But fast forward a few years and I have the perfect phone for my everyday needs. No idevice will ever give me this level of freedom. After android every idevice I touch just feels like a toy. Im a power user. There's no such thing as a power user on an idevice. This isnt the reason why I hate apple though. I don't like apple because theyve single handedly made america stupider at electronics. I know poeple that have iphones that couldn't find they're way around a pc for their lives. Half these people don't even know how to use itunes properly.

you know what, based on your logic i completely agree with you lol.
Very good arguments!
I have not owed anything apple except a ipad that i bring into cleanrooms with me. I sure hope there is a all aluminum android 3.0 tab coming in the future. If there are designers out there a cleanroom compatible tablet is better then cleanroom paper and we would buy in bulk.

RushAOZ said:
I don't like apple for my own reasons. Before this amazing phone I have called the epic I owned the iphone 2g 3g and 3gs. I was an apple head. Not a blind one... but I the time I knew there was nothing better. But fast forward a few years and I have the perfect phone for my everyday needs. No idevice will ever give me this level of freedom. After android every idevice I touch just feels like a toy. Im a power user. There's no such thing as a power user on an idevice. This isnt the reason why I hate apple though. I don't like apple because theyve single handedly made america stupider at electronics. I know poeple that have iphones that couldn't find they're way around a pc for their lives. Half these people don't even know how to use itunes properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe me, every computing company wants to make people "stupider" at computing. The only way to make people "stupider" is to make what they want to do simple and intuitive. Apple is amazing in that regard. The reason they market their devices as "magical" are because the things they accomplish with their device truly are "magical" to the people using them.
Take Airplay for example. Its simple DLNA as we all know, but could you imagine trying to explain to your parents or grandparents how to set up and use DLNA? I am VERY technically inclined and I gave up trying to get Allshare to work with my Xbox360 a long time ago. Compare that to the Apple experience where you have an ipad and an Apple TV, you tap a button and tap Apple TV and magically your video is playing on your TV. Thats what people want. They dont care how its working as long as it just works.

pkny said:
you know what, based on your logic i completely agree with you lol.
Very good arguments!
I have not owed anything apple except a ipad that i bring into cleanrooms with me. I sure hope there is a all aluminum android 3.0 tab coming in the future. If there are designers out there a cleanroom compatible tablet is better then cleanroom paper and we would buy in bulk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You work for NASA?

muyoso said:
Believe me, every computing company wants to make people "stupider" at computing. The only way to make people "stupider" is to make what they want to do simple and intuitive. Apple is amazing in that regard. The reason they market their devices as "magical" are because the things they accomplish with their device truly are "magical" to the people using them.
Take Airplay for example. Its simple DLNA as we all know, but could you imagine trying to explain to your parents or grandparents how to set up and use DLNA? I am VERY technically inclined and I gave up trying to get Allshare to work with my Xbox360 a long time ago. Compare that to the Apple experience where you have an ipad and an Apple TV, you tap a button and tap Apple TV and magically your video is playing on your TV. Thats what people want. They dont care how its working as long as it just works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And apple products are a great value. Apple tv let's you do AirPlay and it is only 99 bucks.

I don't think apple is that bad. I like my ipad.
Sent From My Evo Killer!

Do y'all think the iPad is worth buying? I mean like if you already have a desktop, would you buy a laptop or a tablet? And do you actually use it, or does it just sit around?
Sent From My Command Center... (aka basement)

drizek said:
You work for NASA?
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Click to collapse
Yeah, how did you know?

flopez76 said:
Do y'all think the iPad is worth buying? I mean like if you already have a desktop, would you buy a laptop or a tablet? And do you actually use it, or does it just sit around?
Sent From My Command Center... (aka basement)
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Click to collapse
I have a desktop and I bought both a laptop and a tablet. I use all of them everyday for different things.
I'd much rather spend $500 on an ipad than on a new phone for sure though.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

pkny said:
Yeah, how did you know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys have lots of cleanrooms
What do you do?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

muyoso said:
Uh, the Tegra 2 is garbage. I dont know why people think its all high and mighty still. Its literally a joke at this point. It got DEMOLISHED by the A5 and PowervrSGX543MP2 less than 2 weeks of making its mass market debut. LOL. Also, its incapable of playing high profile h.264, something that the ORIGINAL iPad could handle fine. Its junk. I will be avoiding all Tegra 2 products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Yup. I agree... Tegra was high end when it was announced on paper and the iphone was not out. Now that the tegra is finally coming out, its garbage compared to what's put there.

BlackBerry PlayBook

Is anybody planning to get the PB? I'm hearing some pretty good things about it at CrackBerry and would like to see if anybody else was planning to get it.
I'm just curious since I have a strong urge to get one since it's the only viable 7" tablet.
I'm sort of hoping developers would get a hold of it so they would try to figure out a way to sync an Android device to the PlayBook like a BlackBerry would for Bridge. I love the Android community too much to ever leave it but that PlayBook has really caught my eye.

Is the new EVO View with a new single core 1.5ghz next Gen snapdragon adreno 220gpu nexflix drm bakwd in at hardware level 7" tablet a little better seeing its pruning gingerbread with an update to HC or Ice Cream sandwich better then the playbook?

gator2k83 said:
Is the new EVO View with a new single core 1.5ghz next Gen snapdragon adreno 220gpu nexflix drm bakwd in at hardware level 7" tablet a little better seeing its pruning gingerbread with an update to HC or Ice Cream sandwich better then the playbook?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Flyer/View has the older single core Snapdragon with the Adreno 205 GPU. I personally think both tablets are sub par.

Get an ipad 2. Problem solved.

dirkyd3rk said:
Get an ipad 2. Problem solved.
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Click to collapse
For now i would have to agree... When Google has finished with honeycomb though, i think comparing only os to os, android will have the advantage.

aimbdd said:
For now i would have to agree... When Google has finished with honeycomb though, i think comparing only os to os, android will have the advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I love android all these tablets are just jokes compared to the ipad 2, even ipad 1 still craps on android tabs on the market today. HTC flyer(joke), galaxy tab(Steve jobs still laughs in his sleep at it), Motorola xoom(nice try moto, xoom isn't worth 800 and blows) other *random* brand android tabs( ha don't make me laugh). Blackerry playbook doesnt even appeal to me; I heard they might be able to run android apps. I'd even rock an ipad 1 over anything that's coming out in 2011 for android tabs. Now 2012 will be the year android really steps up their hardware/software for tabs I bet.

The problem is the size of the iPad. I would've already bought the iPad if I could bring it around without having to hold it in my hands just to move around. The thing with the PlayBook is that I can actually put it in my pockets.
I've borrowed my friend's iPad 1 for a few days and I didn't even want to carry it around. Don't get me wrong, it was fine sitting at my place but it's just not something I want to hold in my hand when I'm moving around.

dirkyd3rk said:
Motorola xoom(nice try moto, xoom isn't worth 800 and blows)
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Click to collapse
The XOOM pricing is pretty ridiculous but why does it ''blow''?

Yeah... xoom was priced horribly, and some people were saying its sluggish. The new samsung tablet looks like it might be a decent competitor. We wont know until it is released. As of now, I don't see anything competitive.. (That is being sold)

mattykinsx said:
The XOOM pricing is pretty ridiculous but why does it ''blow''?
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Click to collapse
+1 also, what about the asus eee transformer. Rumor says it will be $400 with the same specs as the xoom running honeycomb. Plus the option to basically turn it into a netbook with the keyboard is pretty sweet. Seriously honeycomb will kick the crap out of ios once there are more apps optimized for tablet screens. Having a widget homescreen vs a sea of apps is a way better ui especially on a large screen. Seriously besides the quantity of quality tablet apps (and price in the case of the xoom), I don't see what makes the ipad better.

asus and view looks awesome.
view would be amazing for notes in meetings/lectures/etc..
Asus would be amazing everywhere.

mattykinsx said:
The XOOM pricing is pretty ridiculous but why does it ''blow''?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't even get me started on why it blows lol, here ill give you a few things 1). Its a Motorola 2). I know honeycomb is still new but its a sluggish joke ATM 3). Its design(hardware) isn't as nearly solid as ipads 4). $800 ha yeah right 5)Only thing Motorola got right was the razr.
I have 5 friends with the xoom so I've played with it enough. 3 of them sold it, 1 traded for an ipad 2, and only 1 is still holding on to it (and he's having charging port issues).

FYI - Tegra 3 Performance, Power Consumption, In-Game screenshots

Just read the article and I put it here in case you are interested.
Original thread:
Tegra 3 Bechmarks - xbitlabs
Tegra 3 architecture revealed - Anandtech
Some Game Screenshots/Videos:
In game shots
First Demo
Side by side comparsion
Next-gen games

Linking another article
Geeky-Gadgets.com article

I _really_ can't wait to see the Transformer 2.

So the Transformer 2 is real and is coming next month? Perfect!
Is it confirmed?

GetPatriotized said:
So the Transformer 2 is real and is coming next month? Perfect!
Is it confirmed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. A better guess in Q1 of 2012. Nvidia is still working on the CPU

thebadfrog said:
No. A better guess in Q1 of 2012. Nvidia is still working on the CPU
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Click to collapse
Personally, I'd be surprised to see it even in Q1 of 2012. Last I heard, they were still having issues getting enough SOC's for developer boards. We've seen 6+ month development cycles from most major manufacturers (or more) in regards to attaining the dev boards to putting a product out. I forsee products at the earliest of Q2 of 2012, if not Q3.
My concern is more with the video decoding. Are they going to get it right this time around? Tegra 2 has been pretty disappointing IMHO when it comes to media.

Check this! ZTE Kal-El Tablet
First tablet spotted with the Kal-El SoC running android 3.2.
I'd say November release is more real, than October, but who knows.

if they dont start really supporting the tegra 2 i dont think the tegra 3 will matter much. what is there 11 or so tegra games, might be a few more, but only a few that really use tegra.
jmho

justPorter said:
if they dont start really supporting the tegra 2 i dont think the tegra 3 will matter much. what is there 11 or so tegra games, might be a few more, but only a few that really use tegra.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I feel like I bought an obsolete device that isn't even a year old.

I'll wait patiently. The Kal-El processor seems pretty slick. Read an article recently that indicates it actually as a 5th core that is permanently underclocked, so that it can run the background, mundane crap, and leave the four primary cores for heavy lifting.
The TF2 could be a pretty damn powerful tablet.

FrayAdjacent said:
I'll wait patiently. The Kal-El processor seems pretty slick. Read an article recently that indicates it actually as a 5th core that is permanently underclocked, so that it can run the background, mundane crap, and leave the four primary cores for heavy lifting.
The TF2 could be a pretty damn powerful tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect....The 5th core is for when the tablet is in 'sleep' mode or when there is almost nothing going on. If the SOC determines that the 5th core can handle the load, it will switch to just that core, and turn off the 4 main cores to preserve battery life. The whole point is to reduce battery consumption, more importantly when nothing or very little is happening, or when it's sleeping. The 5th core runs at a lower voltage and clock speed (up to 500 MHz).
Anandtech Link
The article really gets into the nitty gritty concerning the issue. Basically, you have 4 different states, either a single low power core, a single normal power core, dual (normal power) cores, or quad (normal power) cores. The differences between the cores come from the transistors used. The LP core uses non-leaky transistors that can't be switched as fast (thus the limited to 500 MHz), whereas the normal cores use leaky 'fast switching' transistors to get the speed.
It's an interesting way of trying to increase battery life, at the cost of more transistors and space.
Honestly, the things I want to know haven't been answered yet....How much RAM can we have with this CPU? How fast? If I don't see something more than 1 gb of ram and something greater than 1 GHz (preferably closer to 2 GHz), then the competition very well may catch up very quickly.

Drybonz said:
I agree. I feel like I bought an obsolete device that isn't even a year old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the world that Apple created and everyone openly accepted.

from what i have read Q1 looks more reasonable for transformer 2 especially since Asus has said they expect sales of transformer 2 to hit 1m for q4, if they release T2 in q4 i dont see it hitting that number!

blessedswine said:
from what i have read Q1 looks more reasonable for transformer 2 especially since Asus has said they expect sales of transformer 2 to hit 1m for q4, if they release T2 in q4 i dont see it hitting that number!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
????
Typo?
Also, where do you get the 1m from? Asus are selling 600,000 transformers every month.

well it only sold 400k in april and may, 300k for june, and after june i cant find anyone saying anything about sales numbers other then they are what they expected.
and yes i meant to type transformer 1 for q4. i havent found anything saying they are selling 600k a month but im not disputing that if that is true they will hit the million sales goal they are setting out for in q4. what i was saying though is if they release the transformer 2 it will kill sales of original im also assuming they wont keep making it. i could be wrong.

CrazyPeter said:
Welcome to the world that Apple created and everyone openly accepted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering how that is going to sit with the general public. Shelling out $200 for a new phone every two years is one thing, but $500-800 for a new tablet every year or two is going sting even those with the heftiness IT budgets. I wonder if Apple will hit a wall there.
My friend from work is loving it. He's bought an iPad I for a song he expects the II's will be just as cheap when the III's come out.
That's probably the biggest down side of the Android tablet market (or upside) you aren't going to get much for your T1. Here's hoping the dock works with the T2!
Amazon $199 price tag is very close to the disposable cell phone price that people seem to be willing to shell out blindly. Arnova is promising $250ish capacitive 1080p 10" tablets very soon. Tegra 3 will sure push down the prices of Tegra 2 tablets into low $300. Probably be able to pick them up for high $250ish on a good sale.
I think these things are going to really leap frog for the next 3 years. I think Kal-El is the beginning of the end for the laptop as we know it. I'm wondering how Apple is going to handle it. If they sell iPad's they'll kill there lucrative laptop business. If MS gets Windows 8 working on a Kal-El tablet, that would be a real shot across Apple's bow. A Windows 8 Transformer. I think that could put MS back in the game. Will Android's phone success translate into Tablets? Interesting times.

I think olit'll be announced in October for release in time for Christmas.
Nvida said KalEl was going to be ready in October. So I expect ASUS will want to be among the first with a quad core tablet.
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium

Added the Engadget link with some screenshots - nice graphics there

It's kinda getting ridiculous how new devices are getting developed and released so fast. Whats the point of buying the new TF2 when there really hasn't been anything to come out to take full advantage of the Tegra 2 chip other than a few games??? Sure it would be cool to show the new TF2 to everyone and it will be faster than anything on the market, but for what? It's way to soon in my opinion to release the TF2 with nothing to really show benefit other than a few benchmarks and a screen shot of a game that will more than likely run just fine on the Tegra 2. I'm sure the everyday android tablet user would not notice the difference between the TF1 and 2 when using it for browsing, video streaming and other basic operations used tablet wise.

Riley1524 said:
It's kinda getting ridiculous how new devices are getting developed and released so fast. Whats the point of buying the new TF2 when there really hasn't been anything to come out to take full advantage of the Tegra 2 chip other than a few games??? Sure it would be cool to show the new TF2 to everyone and it will be faster than anything on the market, but for what? It's way to soon in my opinion to release the TF2 with nothing to really show benefit other than a few benchmarks and a screen shot of a game that will more than likely run just fine on the Tegra 2. I'm sure the everyday android tablet user would not notice the difference between the TF1 and 2 when using it for browsing, video streaming and other basic operations used tablet wise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tegra 2 ist one year old and outdated. It's not capable of 1080p High Profile, it has problems with 720p content, it's only running at 1000Mhz, the GPU is not fast enough.
The reason why Asus updated their line up is that the Transformer was very late to the market, like every other Honeycomb-Tablet.