Related
I know I am.
We can debate about it till the end of time and end of day, it's just preference. I dislike the Apple arrogance, but they make a kick ass piece of hardware. To do what it can do on lesser hardware specs (CPU) is an amazing accomplishment. Once you get into an app on either platform, it's pretty much the same thing.
However, I am in the Android ecosystem and I dig it. I am a tinkerer, so it's definitely for me since I love the customization. But I am also a cheap bastard, and price could win this war for me.
The XOOM is expensive, even with the 25% coupon.
Here's where I jump ship to iPad vs. XOOM (which I do have on order and is shipping)
- Lower iPad entry price. 400 - 450 for a 16gb iPad2 is killer. However, it would have to be closer to 400. At 450, it's 150 away from full flash, higher resolution, more capacity and expandability... etc etc...
- Higher resolution screen. This is huge. I want to be able to paint with sketchbook and already believe 4:3 is better than 16:10 for this, but even a 16:10 1280 x 800 is already better than iPad 1's 1024 x 768. A higher res screen would likely be 1280 x 1024.
If they get both of these, price and screen, I am not leaving Android, but I will leave the XOOM behind. And not just as an in comparison vs. iPad stance, but lets look at 2011. Almost every Android pad coming out has similar to same specs as XOOM. We all knew we were paying the premium for first adopter syndrome, but at some point, I need to be smart about all this.
Thoughts?
DatterBoy said:
I know I am.
We can debate about it till the end of time and end of day, it's just preference. I dislike the Apple arrogance, but they make a kick ass piece of hardware. To do what it can do on lesser hardware specs (CPU) is an amazing accomplishment. Once you get into an app on either platform, it's pretty much the same thing.
However, I am in the Android ecosystem and I dig it. I am a tinkerer, so it's definitely for me since I love the customization. But I am also a cheap bastard, and price could win this war for me.
The XOOM is expensive, even with the 25% coupon.
Here's where I jump ship to iPad vs. XOOM (which I do have on order and is shipping)
- Lower iPad entry price. 400 - 450 for a 16gb iPad2 is killer. However, it would have to be closer to 400. At 450, it's 150 away from full flash, higher resolution, more capacity and expandability... etc etc...
- Higher resolution screen. This is huge. I want to be able to paint with sketchbook and already believe 4:3 is better than 16:10 for this, but even a 16:10 1280 x 800 is already better than iPad 1's 1024 x 768. A higher res screen would likely be 1280 x 1024.
If they get both of these, price and screen, I am not leaving Android, but I will leave the XOOM behind. And not just as an in comparison vs. iPad stance, but lets look at 2011. Almost every Android pad coming out has similar to same specs as XOOM. We all knew we were paying the premium for first adopter syndrome, but at some point, I need to be smart about all this.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sources in the media say the higher res screen is not going to happen because it would cause more power drain. They are going to make a thinner screen, though, allowing the device to be thinner.
I can never get an iPad because iOS is pathetic for a tablet OS. Not near enough functionality for my tastes. It's just an app delivery system.
Unfortunately, this leaves me still waiting for a tablet that fits my needs (Toshiba? LG?). My Xoom is going back, I'm too bothered by the power button and speaker placement, especially considering the price.
They aren't going to lower the price and they aren't bumping the screen specs up. So your decision is already made. Apple hits the same price point every year, they aren't going to lower it when they are already below all relevant competition. They have already confirmed that the screen is the same resolution as well.
What will change I think is that Apple will be running a dual core TI OMAP4430 processor with the Imagination Technologies Powervr SGX540 clocked at 300mhz. The reason I think this is what they will use is that Apple owns a significant stake in Imaginations Technology, they might even outright own it at this point, and they have used their technology in past iphones and ipads.
If they do use this SoC, then the iPad will have SIGNIFICANTLY higher graphics processing power than the Xoom and other Tegra 2 tablets. Also, Apple won't support it, but it would be capable of playing back 1080p high profile content flawlessly. Maybe once its jailbroken and XBMC is installed . . . . .
I'm not really on the fence, as I will get a Xoom eventually. But I do think that the pricing of the Xoom is ridiculous, and I do think that this will change once the iPad 2 is announced.
Motorola justified the premium price by saying it has many features that the iPad doesn't have. This is stupid. First, 4G and Flash are not available on it, yet. Second, the product that the Xoom should really be compared to is the iPad 2, not the original iPad. Flash can certainly be ruled out for the iPad 2, given Steve Jobs' stance on it. But how come Motorola is so certain that iPad 2 won't get 4G support? And front+rear cameras support, and faster CPU, are unlikely to be missing on the iPad 2.
I do think that Motorola will change the pricing on the Xoom once the iPad 2 is out there. This is probably why they don't say anything about the price of the wifi-only version yet (except informally said to be around $600, not saying anything about the capacity). The official price of the current 3G+wifi model probably won't change, but I'm sure they will do some coupon or mail-in rebate to effectively lower its price, and then introduce a range of lower capacity and wifi-only model to try to match iPad's pricing.
Apple probably will lower the prices with the new iPad. They typically cut the price of the same capacity model (due to flash memory price dropping like crazy all the time?) when they introduce a new generation of products every year (see iPod Touch). I highly doubt they can do much lower than $499 for the cheapest model though, because honestly that's already shockingly cheap when it was introduced last year. My guess is the starting price will still be around $499, maybe $450 but not any lower. Maybe they will retain the current generation 16GB iPad and slash its price, just like what they did with the iPhone 3GS. But the prices of the newer higher capacity models should be lower than what they are now.
tsekh501 said:
I'm not really on the fence, as I will get a Xoom eventually. But I do think that the pricing of the Xoom is ridiculous, and I do think that this will change once the iPad 2 is announced.
Motorola justified the premium price by saying it has many features that the iPad doesn't have. This is stupid. First, 4G and Flash are not available on it, yet. Second, the product that the Xoom should really be compared to is the iPad 2, not the original iPad. Flash can certainly be ruled out for the iPad 2, given Steve Jobs' stance on it. But how come Motorola is so certain that iPad 2 won't get 4G support? And front+rear cameras support, and faster CPU, are unlikely to be missing on the iPad 2.
I do think that Motorola will change the pricing on the Xoom once the iPad 2 is out there. This is probably why they don't say anything about the price of the wifi-only version yet (except informally said to be around $600, not saying anything about the capacity). The official price of the current 3G+wifi model probably won't change, but I'm sure they will do some coupon or mail-in rebate to effectively lower its price, and then introduce a range of lower capacity and wifi-only model to try to match iPad's pricing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think flash can be ruled out. They could easily just say that it wasn't ready to run as smooth as they require, but now with the new hardware it does. They have reversed themselves on dozens of things as vehemently rejected as Flash in the past. That would be a major coup against Android too.
There is no on the fence for me, Honeycomb compared to the sorry excuse for a tablet OS they call iOS is a no brainer.
DatterBoy said:
I know I am.
We can debate about it till the end of time and end of day, it's just preference. I dislike the Apple arrogance, but they make a kick ass piece of hardware. To do what it can do on lesser hardware specs (CPU) is an amazing accomplishment. Once you get into an app on either platform, it's pretty much the same thing.
However, I am in the Android ecosystem and I dig it. I am a tinkerer, so it's definitely for me since I love the customization. But I am also a cheap bastard, and price could win this war for me.
The XOOM is expensive, even with the 25% coupon.
Here's where I jump ship to iPad vs. XOOM (which I do have on order and is shipping)
- Lower iPad entry price. 400 - 450 for a 16gb iPad2 is killer. However, it would have to be closer to 400. At 450, it's 150 away from full flash, higher resolution, more capacity and expandability... etc etc...
- Higher resolution screen. This is huge. I want to be able to paint with sketchbook and already believe 4:3 is better than 16:10 for this, but even a 16:10 1280 x 800 is already better than iPad 1's 1024 x 768. A higher res screen would likely be 1280 x 1024.
If they get both of these, price and screen, I am not leaving Android, but I will leave the XOOM behind. And not just as an in comparison vs. iPad stance, but lets look at 2011. Almost every Android pad coming out has similar to same specs as XOOM. We all knew we were paying the premium for first adopter syndrome, but at some point, I need to be smart about all this.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a big deal, the 32gb 3g I pad currently costs $729, the new I pad will be the same or more, I could careless about $70, also the xoom with no flash sucks balls, to be stuck with an iPad that will never get flash would be a travesty. Please hurry up adobe
I am on the fence. What I really need is a good tablet that will replace my notes at work as well as be a nice toy for my 2.5 year old to play with and learn on. We won't know everything until tomorrow, but I love how Android is an actual OS whereas iOS is an app launcher. The thing to realize, Apple is also going to show some stuff coming out in iOS5. Nobody knows what is in the new OS. For all we know, they completely revamped it to be more like a desktop experience. If this is the case, I think I am going to have to go with IPad. If this is not the case, I will probably stick with Android, maybe not the Xoom but the Samsung 10.1 or another one. The only part that I am wary about are the amount of apps. I know that android will be getting more apps as time goes by, but IPad already has those apps. Therefore there is no waiting at all for them. Ahh, it's going to be such a hard decision to make when it comes down to it.
Disclaimer: I have never owned a single piece of Apple hardware/software before. The only android hardware/software that I have used is my HTC Hero CDMA.
I am waiting the next Samsung 8.9" tablet that will be announced on March 22
Hoping it doesn't use Tegra 2, has nicer screen like super amoled and 64 gb model.
I might jump into iPad 2 if iOS5 is not just a launcher.
Xoom is nice, but too expensive for current state (dislike Tegra 2 performance, hate the screen, hate the power button).
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I'm not seriously on the fence about an iPad2...not a big apple fan, but I may still return my Xoom and wait a few weeks given that the iPad2 can change pricing and speed up some of the missing features (ie flash).
I don't own (or ever have owned) an current generation Apple product. I did own a original Macintosh and Apple II GS. I do like their hardware though.
As an aside, I always thought Apple should start using other apple names besides macintosh. The iphone could've been the fiji and the ipad the granny smith.
I am also on the fence - and I am coming from the GTablet. Dont get me wrong the Tegra 2 is an awesome platform and have become very comfortable with the source strucutre (Froyo), etc. etc. BUT I hated the screen. I just could not get past how bad the screen was on the GTablet. This now brings me to a point where I am tablet-less. Since the iPAD 2 announcement is tomorrow I am definitely on the fence. Other than an iPOD I don't own any Apple equipment. Having a strong linux/java development background so I do gravitate towards the Google platform BUT as I see it for what I want it to do (Browsing, Playing Games, Email, Media, E-Reading, etc.) the IPAD 2 is just as good (if not better possibly). With the GTablet I LOVED the tinkering with the kernel, loading up different ROMs, creating FrankinROMs, the little development I did, etc. but honestly I have enough tech playing in my life/profession soo.. the net net is I just need something that works, has great support and most importantly a great screen.
NOW.... If Motorola was smarter the WIFI would be out by now; someone like me would have pulled the trigger already especially due to the fact the 3G version is utterly crazily priced!... Unfortunately for them I have now reserved my self to be on the fence... Stupid stupid Motorola... I suspect everyone who is on the fence is/was in the same position! Listen Motorla - you probably just lost many customers to the (right now) king of Tablets... I would love to know the strategy of these manufacturers... Apple was smart to wait till after ALL the tablet announcements... its like seeing a boxer throw punch after punch barely connecting, tiring out the opponent... By the time the IPAD 2 hits the shelves - Android 3.0 will be a whisper in the wind - unfortunately due to the fact XOOM hasnt had the glaring reviews we all suspected and all others delayed till end of April or beyond. I suspect Apple will announce the IPAD 2 will be released 1st week of April - killing a huge market share of potential Google purchasers (like me?). If I were Apple this is what I would do.
Anyway... fun to discuss, speculate, etc.
Count me in as being on the fence. I was really hyped on Xoom coming out but the price and lack of options has completely killed my desire for one.
The biggest complaint I have is the fact that there is no WiFi version available at this time. I really dont need another data contract, and with having a Evo I can thether for free and dont need an overpriced CDMA radio. Having played with a Xoom, I think its great device and would really like one, but it loses out to the iPad in the following:
1) No WiFi $500-600 version
2) No Apps. I know there will be apps, but if I pay $800 for a device, I expect strong app support.
3) Fully thought out & functional product. Xoom seems rushed with no flash, no SD memory card, and crappy video support. I dont mind that these things will be updated in the future, but at a $800 price point its utterly retarded that its not fully functional.
I think the biggest mistake Motorola made is not offering a WiFi only version and releasing sooo close to the iPad 2 launch.
I will likely buy a iPad 2, since it will be announced tomorrow, WiFi version will be available soon and has the better apps. Although iOS sucks balls, I would rather have a cheaper tablet that is comparable.
No Brainer
i have never connected this to my computer and have already 20 albums, 3 movies and all my contacts, calendar, bookmarks.
oh i also have :
my jobs wifi with password
my house wifi with password
and all my friends wifi with passwords....i didnt do anything besides sign in my google account.
4g connections...micro sd...flash..soon enough (complain all you want about that..early adopters are a rare breed)
heavy dev help on the way....massive google overhauls as well
you do the math...
if your cheap i can see the complaining. otherwise, nah bro
also forgot
apple Ram is being up'ed to only 512mb.
and they arent using a Micro sd card
and they arent using a hdmi port
and they arent using a micro usb cord
but its apple so it doesnt matter, right?
Bauxite said:
There is no on the fence for me, Honeycomb compared to the sorry excuse for a tablet OS they call iOS is a no brainer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
The few people I spoke to about this said they were waiting for an iPad 2 because they like the sleek UI - can't fault iPad/Phone/Pod for the simple, easy to use, non-breakable UI - but I'd feel trapped and even jailbroken - a broken man...
Xoom caught my eye in the end (was contemplating something like the HTC Flyer but think its too small for a home-wifi-only-tab) and I'm waiting for the £450 wifi version to hit the pre-order so I can pre-order!
Dude... I think your in the wrong thread... This is the iPAD2 on the fence thread... Not sure what your saying (my Chrome Translation feature is not working) but its not coming across.. you may need to resend the message or your in the wrong thread...
dudeimgeorge said:
i have never connected this to my computer and have already 20 albums, 3 movies and all my contacts, calendar, bookmarks.
oh i also have :
my jobs wifi with password
my house wifi with password
and all my friends wifi with passwords....i didnt do anything besides sign in my google account.
4g connections...micro sd...flash..soon enough (complain all you want about that..early adopters are a rare breed)
heavy dev help on the way....massive google overhauls as well
you do the math...
if your cheap i can see the complaining. otherwise, nah bro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets not all forget about the horrible iTunes that is basically required to sync the iPad. Hrm. I've gone so long without ever needing to install that hunk of junk. That might be the main reason I pick Xoom at the end of the day.
cheebahawk said:
Count me in as being on the fence. I was really hyped on Xoom coming out but the price and lack of options has completely killed my desire for one.
The biggest complaint I have is the fact that there is no WiFi version available at this time. I really dont need another data contract, and with having a Evo I can thether for free and dont need an overpriced CDMA radio. Having played with a Xoom, I think its great device and would really like one, but it loses out to the iPad in the following:
1) No WiFi $500-600 version
2) No Apps. I know there will be apps, but if I pay $800 for a device, I expect strong app support.
3) Fully thought out & functional product. Xoom seems rushed with no flash, no SD memory card, and crappy video support. I dont mind that these things will be updated in the future, but at a $800 price point its utterly retarded that its not fully functional.
I think the biggest mistake Motorola made is not offering a WiFi only version and releasing sooo close to the iPad 2 launch.
I will likely buy a iPad 2, since it will be announced tomorrow, WiFi version will be available soon and has the better apps. Although iOS sucks balls, I would rather have a cheaper tablet that is comparable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a little confused, iPad will never have flash or SD support. The fact you have to wait a couple of weeks for flash means they should've delayed the project, your trippin. 1080p video when iPad doesn't have it isn't much of a comparison. When watching comcast on demand on my xoom everything looks a million times better then with my iPad. Everyoe is different and has different needs, but your points are mute except for price
First of all, a disclaimer, I own both ;-) I am a self proclaimed hardware whore. I currently use a nexus one but have owned 2 iphones in the past. I have a macbook pro as well as a dell xps, oh and I (or my kids) have an iPad.
Plain and simple, no one can knock apple for shaking up an industry. What they originally did for the phone scene and the eventual tablet scene was a well needed shot in the arm and they deserve the success they have received.
However, on a day to day basis do I use the iPad or iPhone? No. Why? Because while they do the basics very well they are certainly not flexible. Try to do something that Apple doesn't approve of and you'll quickly realize what I mean. While Jailbreaking is cool n' all that, I still prefer my functionality to be sanctioned by the manufacturer rather than hacked in.
As for the iPad2, my biggest complaint about the original iPad (and why my kids now exclusively use it) is browsing. Their browser is horribly slow, scrolling a page and waiting while the checkered pattern cleared up annoyed the crap out of me. And sure, flash sucks but it is a standard - and shame on you Apple for not embracing standards.
So, I genuinely don't care what the iPad2 has over the first generation if they don't fix the browser.
.... although I truly, truly miss Netflix
^^^^^^Amen!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Doesn't look like the xoom did too well..
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/apple-ipad-2-gpu-performance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
harajuka said:
Doesn't look like the xoom did too well..
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/apple-ipad-2-gpu-performance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, the Xoom has a higher resolution screen, so these tests are slightly more taxing on it.
However, even if the resolution was the same, the iPad 2 would still come ahead. So, the point still stands.
So what was the problem?
Is honeycomb not properly optimized for gl?
Is A5 that much better at 3d than terga?
jacksmind said:
So what was the problem?
Is honeycomb not properly optimized for gl?
Is A5 that much better at 3d than terga?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bit of both, but it's too early to tell.
That was my first thought, is this a product of nvidia's drivers or out classed hardware. Have a feeling its drivers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Who cares? I play games on my laptop or console. These are gpu benchmarks not overall performance. I have an ipad and the games get played once in a blue moon. The overall experience on Xoom is much better. Also this is the first release of android on tegra 2. It'll get better, remember the performance jump with Froyo?
atoy74 said:
That was my first thought, is this a product of nvidia's drivers or out classed hardware. Have a feeling its drivers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought about this after posting too. The Tegra 2's GPU drivers are probably not up to snuff... yet.
Are we in denial, or do we actually know what we're talking about here?
Unless you simply just have to have Android it is becoming incredibly difficult to justify purchasing a Xoom over an iPad 2. I myself love customization, openess, and so forth... but without proper performance...
Eclair~ said:
Are we in denial, or do we actually know what we're talking about here?
Unless you simply just have to have Android it is becoming incredibly difficult to justify purchasing a Xoom over an iPad 2. I myself love customization, openess, and so forth... but without proper performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, performance is pretty good on the Xoom from everything I read. Its not like one device completely outclasses the other one. It is a little annoying that the GPU in the iPad is just a better one than the Tegra 2, but what ya gonna do?
so get an ipad. The performance on the Xoom should be good enough for 99% of the people who bought it.
Hmm, I guess you're probably right. Performance doesn't seem to be a complaint, and I'm complaining about something I never do anyways (playing games on my mobile devices).
Eclair~ said:
Are we in denial, or do we actually know what we're talking about here?
Unless you simply just have to have Android it is becoming incredibly difficult to justify purchasing a Xoom over an iPad 2. I myself love customization, openess, and so forth... but without proper performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if the Xoom was out performed (in a meaning full way)... even if it was VASTLY out performed by the I pad... I'd still have the xoom. Its the first viable non-apple tablet (IMO) and that's all I've been waiting for.
Truth be told, I'd rather have something jammed in my pee hole than give a single additional dollar to Apple. If they have their way, the future of technology as a whole will be changed for the considerable worse. Not now, at a time where they are simply one of the driving forces in the evolution of tech, but their vision of a world where Steve Jobs controls our computing destiny is one that I'd rather not see.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
mobilehavoc said:
Who cares? I play games on my laptop or console. These are gpu benchmarks not overall performance. I have an ipad and the games get played once in a blue moon. The overall experience on Xoom is much better. Also this is the first release of android on tegra 2. It'll get better, remember the performance jump with Froyo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just kinda funny. The Xoom is all about better specs etc. etc. than the iPad, then when the iPad wins a GPU benchmark, the Xoom people just say 'who cares about games'...
Sure the Xoom will get faster with updates and drivers (like you said, Froyo bumped performance), and there will be another set of benchmarks when that happens, but right now these results are pretty definitive...
Gotta love the strict line in the sand between the Apple and Android people.
I wonder when will Android receive decent games anyways. Half of the games are quite pathetic, while there are a few that are at least decent... Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds become repetitive pretty quickly.
Android games are time-killers. They don't hold your attention or immerse you enough to play them for more than a few minutes.
Hmm, outperformed by a huge margin. Thats bad for Xoom and Honeycomb
I think the Galaxy 10.1 would perform the same, with pretty similar hardware Tegra 2
I gotta say that this is surprising. I was excited about the Xoom and Android tablets because of the screen at first, due to the higher resolution and change in aspect ratio to better fit videos. Then it is revealed that the screen is a lower quality panel and the Tegra 2 is incapable of high profile h.264. Then I was at least excited because the Nvidia SoC was still pretty awesome for games and the like. Then it gets completely outclassed within 2 weeks of launch by the iPad2. WTH. I mean this is ridiculous. There is less of a gap between my single core phones performance and the Tegra 2 than there is between the Tegra 2 and the A5 in the iPad2. And the A5 is only a 900mhz dual core. I would be embarrassed if I was Nvidia right now.
mobilehavoc said:
Who cares? I play games on my laptop or console. These are gpu benchmarks not overall performance. I have an ipad and the games get played once in a blue moon. The overall experience on Xoom is much better. Also this is the first release of android on tegra 2. It'll get better, remember the performance jump with Froyo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love people who THINK I'm so tired of all these comparisons and biased reviews and experiences. Remember how much Android has grown as an OS and then look to iOS and its growth/change. Yeah... none. We all chose the Xoom for a reason... we want change.
Don't worry little birds... we'll get changes! This thing is like wine... gets better with age! Although sub out years and replace with weeks
Everyone relax, the GL Benchmark app looks like it wasn't updated for Honeycomb or the Nvidia OpenGL extensions. I'm not even sure if it runs native or runs in a Java VM.
I posted this at android central where it's getting all fan boy crazy:
Well, here goes a few things I noticed off the bat.
I grabbed the GL benchmark app, and here a few indicators that it needs to be re-worked for the Xoom:
The Xoom has 27 native Open GL extensions (MOTODEV > Products > XOOM™ MZ600)
the GL Benchmark app only found 21 (GLBenchmark Result Details of Motorola Xoom)
So off the bat with the app not using all available OpenGL extensions for honeycomb or for the Nvidia platform I'd say that it's "off."
Secondly, the app even incorrectly reads the screen size at 1280 x 752.
So right now I say these needs to be updated before I got too crazy with the results.
I didn't do a cross reference of the utilized libs over the ones "left on the table" but if I get a few minutes I will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying the ipad2 is better or worse, all I'm saying is the benchmark app isn't reading the info right on the Xoom.
muyoso said:
I gotta say that this is surprising. I was excited about the Xoom and Android tablets because of the screen at first, due to the higher resolution and change in aspect ratio to better fit videos. Then it is revealed that the screen is a lower quality panel and the Tegra 2 is incapable of high profile h.264. Then I was at least excited because the Nvidia SoC was still pretty awesome for games and the like. Then it gets completely outclassed within 2 weeks of launch by the iPad2. WTH. I mean this is ridiculous. There is less of a gap between my single core phones performance and the Tegra 2 than there is between the Tegra 2 and the A5 in the iPad2. And the A5 is only a 900mhz dual core. I would be embarrassed if I was Nvidia right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm a bit disappointed with NVIDIA for sure. They were hyping Tegra 2 all last year, leaking slides of the performance and what not, and it cannot do basic tasks like playing 720p playback without stutter. i was even thinking of buying NVIDIA stock too lol.
to be fair, i think we all need to wait it out a bit, and see what software changes are made to alleviate these issues. this doesn't mean the end of android tablets, far from it. i guess we could wait it out for a non-tegra 2 dual core tablet in the 2nd half of 2011 (qualcomm's 2nd gen snapdragon processor, samsung's orion processor, TI OMAP, etc).
what i love about honeycomb is that it isn't hardware specific, so we'll have plenty of choices by the end of the year.
That's true. And don't forget the higher price point of the Xoom. That's make it even harder to justify the purchase againt iPad 2.
And now this benchmark, the Xoom is simply out-classed.
Of course, for Android fans, the Xoom might be the best option for them.
Probably it is good to skip 2011 and wait the next new hardware? Like the Tegra 3 Quad Core? Well, probably it will still be out-classed by the next iPad 3? Yeah, if we follow this kind of thing, there will be NO END!
muyoso said:
I gotta say that this is surprising. I was excited about the Xoom and Android tablets because of the screen at first, due to the higher resolution and change in aspect ratio to better fit videos. Then it is revealed that the screen is a lower quality panel and the Tegra 2 is incapable of high profile h.264. Then I was at least excited because the Nvidia SoC was still pretty awesome for games and the like. Then it gets completely outclassed within 2 weeks of launch by the iPad2. WTH. I mean this is ridiculous. There is less of a gap between my single core phones performance and the Tegra 2 than there is between the Tegra 2 and the A5 in the iPad2. And the A5 is only a 900mhz dual core. I would be embarrassed if I was Nvidia right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not really I just thought that would be funny. This is what happened after reading on gizmodo that the ipad2 demolished the xoom in glbenchmark 2.0 I had to check for myself. Theres no ****ing way that pos ipad does that well against tegra. I know that ios doesnt support multitasking and what not. I basically feel ios is more efficient with hardware. Just like macs require less cpu speed then a windows pc to do the same task. Doesnt mean windows or android sucks, they just work off completely different architechtures. But Ill be damned if those numbers are true. I base this not because of how high the ipad scored against the xoom but how close xoom scored compared to ipad1...
theres no ****ing way tegra performs so poorly against the ipad and its powervr535. Same damn chip in the evo. My epic rapes the evo in gpu. We all know it. So according to that test tegra isnt really much faster than powervr535. This to me is bull**** so I decided to run glbenchmark 2.0 to see how i fared compared to the tabs. I checked off all the tests. Went back to my psp to play some ff9 and when i look back at my epic theres a responseless black screen with the touch sense buttons lit.. WTF?!?!?!? It started vibrating and still doing nothing so I pulled the battery. Restarted and I was taken to the touch android to begin screen followed by a ****LOAD of force closes...
Anyone got any idea? I'm just gonna reflash no biggie but thats ****ing weird.
btw..
AOSP clone 2.2 is the rom yo.
Actually the ipad 2 does kill tegra for the same reason our phones match it in real word tests. The powervr sgx543mp gpu in the ipad is a multicore version of what is in our epics. Tegra may have two cpu's but the gpu's in tegra are only on par or barely better than our epic's sgx540. Since I don't know of any tasks on a phone that really benefit from the extra cpu power afforded by two cpu's I will skip over tegra and try to base my next cell phone buying decisions based on gpu and ram not cpu.
Too often people neglect the fact that ram and gpu power are the real limiting factors to system performance.
Edit: Just fyi the evo's 65nm snapdragon uses an adreno 200 gpu. Droid x uses an sgx535 as does the iphone 3gs, 4 and original ipad. The sgx 535 is about half as powerful as the sgx 540 in the epic and the adreno 200 is about half as powerful as sgx535 or one fourth as powerful as our sgx540. The adreno 205 in the evo shift, g2, mytouch 4g and inspire 4g is roughly on par with sgx535.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
love how the op said epic gpu rapes the evo gpu. Lol.
RushAOZ said:
Well nor really I just that that would be funny. This is what happened after reading on gizmodo that the ipad2 demolished the xoom in glbenchmark 2.0 I had to check for myself. Theres no ****ing way that pos ipad does that well against tegra. I know that ios doesnt support multitasking and what not. I basically feel ios is more efficient with hardware. Just like macs require less cpu speed then a windows pc to do the same task. Doesnt mean windows or android sucks, they just work off completely different architechtures. But Ill be damn if those numbers are true. I base this not because of how high the ipad scored against the xoom but how close xoom scored compared to ipad1...
theres no ****ing way tegra performs so poorly against the ipad and its powervr535. Same damn chip in the evo. My epic rapes the evo in gpu. We all know it. So according to that test tegra isnt really much faster than powervr535. This to me is bull**** so I decided to run glbenchmark 2.0 to see how i fared compared to the tabs. I checked off all the tests. Went back to my psp to play some ff9 and when i look back at my epic theres a responseless black screen with the touch sense buttons lit.. WTF?!?!?!? It started vibrating and still doing nothing so I pulled the battery. Restarted and I was taken to the touch android to begin screen followed by a ****LOAD of force closes...
Anyone got any idea? I'm just gonna reflash no biggie but thats ****ing weird.
btw..
AOSP clone 2.2 is the rom yo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, the Tegra 2 is garbage. I dont know why people think its all high and mighty still. Its literally a joke at this point. It got DEMOLISHED by the A5 and PowervrSGX543MP2 less than 2 weeks of making its mass market debut. LOL. Also, its incapable of playing high profile h.264, something that the ORIGINAL iPad could handle fine. Its junk. I will be avoiding all Tegra 2 products.
lynyrd65 said:
Actually the ipad 2 does kill tegra for the same reason our phones match it in real word tests. The powervr sgx543mp gpu in the ipad is a multicore version of what is in our epics. Tegra may have two cpu's but the gpu's in tegra are only on par or barely better than our epic's sgx540. Since I don't know of any tasks on a phone that really benefit from the extra cpu power afforded by two cpu's I will skip over tegra and try to base my next cell phone buying decisions based on gpu and ram not cpu.
Too often people neglect the fact that ram and gpu power are the real limiting factors to system performance.
Edit: Just fyi the evo's 65nm snapdragon uses an adreno 200 gpu. Droid x uses an sgx535 as does the iphone 3gs, 4 and original ipad. The sgx 535 is about half as powerful as the sgx 540 in the epic and the adreno 200 is about half as powerful as sgx535 or one fourth as powerful as our sgx540. The adreno 205 in the evo shift, g2, mytouch 4g and inspire 4g is roughly on par with sgx535.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just one correction the droid x and droid 2 use the omap 3 chip which has a sgx 530 not a 535
So no one got the part where glbenchmark killed my phone? lol I just loaded bonsai and the same thing happened.
Back the tegra issue. even though vr543mp is better and dual core it still doesnt ake sense that tegra and vr535 score so closely. Theres a much bigger margin or performance between 535 and 540. Also I apologize for mistaking adreno 200 to vr535.
How did you install gl benchmark? You sure it wasn't malware?
I downloaded it off theyre web site. Im pretty sure it isnt malware lol
Alright so after doing a bit of research i now know tegras gpu performance compared to other chips. Anandtech also has an article pitting tegra against hummingbird and tegra came out on top but not by much at all. I think this needs to be retested once galaxy tab 10.1 is out. I keep reading everywhere that xoom isnt optimized like it should be. That vr543mp is amazing. **** the ipad im waiting for ngp lol
RushAOZ said:
I downloaded it off theyre web site. Im pretty sure it isnt malware lol
Alright so after doing a bit of research i now know tegras gpu performance compared to other chips. Anandtech also has an article pitting tegra against hummingbird and tegra came out on top but not by much at all. I think this needs to be retested once galaxy tab 10.1 is out. I keep reading everywhere that xoom isnt optimized like it should be. That vr543mp is amazing. **** the ipad im waiting for ngp lol
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Click to collapse
Are you in denial that that Ipad2 is still better for now? Like it or not apple has been on the cutting edge in terms of portable media. I am not sure how old you are (and i don't want to base it off of your post) but if you get a chance apply to apple and take a tour of their facilities. They have very talented help so its not surprising that they can come up with such efficient designs.
I maybe mistaken, but the epic was the first phone out that actually had higher specs then the iphone. I love my phone and after 2.2 with EXT4 my phone is everything i want it to be. Waiting 6 months for it is not my cup of tea though.
I don't like apple for my own reasons. Before this amazing phone I have called the epic I owned the iphone 2g 3g and 3gs. I was an apple head. Not a blind one... but I the time I knew there was nothing better. But fast forward a few years and I have the perfect phone for my everyday needs. No idevice will ever give me this level of freedom. After android every idevice I touch just feels like a toy. Im a power user. There's no such thing as a power user on an idevice. This isnt the reason why I hate apple though. I don't like apple because theyve single handedly made america stupider at electronics. I know poeple that have iphones that couldn't find they're way around a pc for their lives. Half these people don't even know how to use itunes properly.
you know what, based on your logic i completely agree with you lol.
Very good arguments!
I have not owed anything apple except a ipad that i bring into cleanrooms with me. I sure hope there is a all aluminum android 3.0 tab coming in the future. If there are designers out there a cleanroom compatible tablet is better then cleanroom paper and we would buy in bulk.
RushAOZ said:
I don't like apple for my own reasons. Before this amazing phone I have called the epic I owned the iphone 2g 3g and 3gs. I was an apple head. Not a blind one... but I the time I knew there was nothing better. But fast forward a few years and I have the perfect phone for my everyday needs. No idevice will ever give me this level of freedom. After android every idevice I touch just feels like a toy. Im a power user. There's no such thing as a power user on an idevice. This isnt the reason why I hate apple though. I don't like apple because theyve single handedly made america stupider at electronics. I know poeple that have iphones that couldn't find they're way around a pc for their lives. Half these people don't even know how to use itunes properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe me, every computing company wants to make people "stupider" at computing. The only way to make people "stupider" is to make what they want to do simple and intuitive. Apple is amazing in that regard. The reason they market their devices as "magical" are because the things they accomplish with their device truly are "magical" to the people using them.
Take Airplay for example. Its simple DLNA as we all know, but could you imagine trying to explain to your parents or grandparents how to set up and use DLNA? I am VERY technically inclined and I gave up trying to get Allshare to work with my Xbox360 a long time ago. Compare that to the Apple experience where you have an ipad and an Apple TV, you tap a button and tap Apple TV and magically your video is playing on your TV. Thats what people want. They dont care how its working as long as it just works.
pkny said:
you know what, based on your logic i completely agree with you lol.
Very good arguments!
I have not owed anything apple except a ipad that i bring into cleanrooms with me. I sure hope there is a all aluminum android 3.0 tab coming in the future. If there are designers out there a cleanroom compatible tablet is better then cleanroom paper and we would buy in bulk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You work for NASA?
muyoso said:
Believe me, every computing company wants to make people "stupider" at computing. The only way to make people "stupider" is to make what they want to do simple and intuitive. Apple is amazing in that regard. The reason they market their devices as "magical" are because the things they accomplish with their device truly are "magical" to the people using them.
Take Airplay for example. Its simple DLNA as we all know, but could you imagine trying to explain to your parents or grandparents how to set up and use DLNA? I am VERY technically inclined and I gave up trying to get Allshare to work with my Xbox360 a long time ago. Compare that to the Apple experience where you have an ipad and an Apple TV, you tap a button and tap Apple TV and magically your video is playing on your TV. Thats what people want. They dont care how its working as long as it just works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And apple products are a great value. Apple tv let's you do AirPlay and it is only 99 bucks.
I don't think apple is that bad. I like my ipad.
Sent From My Evo Killer!
Do y'all think the iPad is worth buying? I mean like if you already have a desktop, would you buy a laptop or a tablet? And do you actually use it, or does it just sit around?
Sent From My Command Center... (aka basement)
drizek said:
You work for NASA?
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Click to collapse
Yeah, how did you know?
flopez76 said:
Do y'all think the iPad is worth buying? I mean like if you already have a desktop, would you buy a laptop or a tablet? And do you actually use it, or does it just sit around?
Sent From My Command Center... (aka basement)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a desktop and I bought both a laptop and a tablet. I use all of them everyday for different things.
I'd much rather spend $500 on an ipad than on a new phone for sure though.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
pkny said:
Yeah, how did you know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys have lots of cleanrooms
What do you do?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
muyoso said:
Uh, the Tegra 2 is garbage. I dont know why people think its all high and mighty still. Its literally a joke at this point. It got DEMOLISHED by the A5 and PowervrSGX543MP2 less than 2 weeks of making its mass market debut. LOL. Also, its incapable of playing high profile h.264, something that the ORIGINAL iPad could handle fine. Its junk. I will be avoiding all Tegra 2 products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Yup. I agree... Tegra was high end when it was announced on paper and the iphone was not out. Now that the tegra is finally coming out, its garbage compared to what's put there.
Coming from a Xoom owner and having played with the ipad 2 this weekend, I'll admit that Apple has just thought everything out much better than Motorola has.
In this, I don't blame Google...I love honeycomb and think its the better OS, but right now I can't recommend the Xoom to anyone I know unless they already know they want the Xoom (which are people like us).
You can just tell that Apple has thought a lot of things through...the design on the ip2 is amazing...it really does feel a lot nicer than my Xoom...its more balanced in one hand. The case, while IMO stupid, is also well thought out…the fact that they even thought of that was awesome...ive always been wondering when companies would design cases/covers that work WITH the item and looks fully integrated...the first ipad case was a pos, and the Motorola case is also ****. A lot of you will say the case is great yadda yadda, but get real, you can tell they put maybe 2 FTEs for like a week to design that thing. The way the magnets work on the iPad is great...a lot of third party case makers will probably use that to turn the iPad on/off.
The volume buttons on the Xoom are also incredibly frustrating to use...i have to actually use my fingernails to use them...again not a deal breaker since I deal with it, but still...not well thought out.
Again, I am not talking about the aps, which should catch up, but the hardware…and yea, I know “we aren’t the average consumer blah blah,” but I want the avg consumer to adopt honeycomb because they are the mass consumers that developers will flock to get. The avg consumer wants something that is pretty…really the iPad does make it feel “magical” whereas the Xoom is industrial.
Since people are focused on tablet centric aps, it is like the app stores are starting over again and the Xoom is somewhat like the G1. It took Android about 1-2 years to (IMO) catch up to Iphone’s apps (still some missing, but I’d generally say the phone apps are pretty much right up there with iOS)….so I am guessing it will take about that long for the tablet aps to catch up. In that time, maybe Honeycomb will get mass adoption…until then, I think iPad 2 is better for me too in the end. However, my nexus s will never go anywhere unless the iphone 5 fixes notifications and gives me SOME flexibility…doubtful.
It is incredibly frustrating for me because while I hate the walled-garden approach, being completely open without regulations has its qualms too…Right now neither OS is close to being perfect, but the iPad can do more now. Xoom has the potential to be amazing…I have 4 CNN widgets on one screen to get the latest news and its very pretty, but then I can’t watch Netflix in an airport? SOME devices will get Netflix…SOME devices will get Hulu…SOME devices will get mlb.tv support…three things I want to do a lot of while traveling….Sure Play On will fix a lot, but again, that is a work around. And while Playon has been great, its not perfect…nor free. Motorola has possibly forced me to leave Honeycomb.
Flash is dead…sorry, but Adobe has had a good amount of time now. I loaded flash 10.2 on my updated Xoom and while it is better, it’s not near a good user experience.
Ultimately, that is what Apple gets…it’s the user experience…not specs. Everything they have done, from banding, to hardware design, to software design, has been designed to make the user feel like they are really doing something COOL. Technology is such a black hole to some people, that the simple fact of “flicking a movie from an ipad to a TV” DOES seem magical to them…even though techies know that’s not a big deal.
Also, choices, while ultimately great, can lead to some pretty negative things…if I was an apple salesman, all I would have to say is “Fragmentation, your device may not be up to date in half a year,” which we all know is bull****, but to an avg consumer, that is one frightening sentence.
Flame Suit On.
I have both. I still like the Xoom better though.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I agree that the Apple ipad is a terrific device. the platform is about five years old now considering it is a large ipod touch/iphone and 2nd gen in its current form factor. In 18 months Android became the No. 1 smartphone OS and this is the first stab at a market Apple defined.
The screen ipad screen is better than the Xoom, the Apple ecosystem of getting media from itunes onto the tablet is idiot-proof, it certainly has the apps and it looks like video performance for movies and games is improved with the ipad2. For the average consumer (or maybe below average from our technical point of view) looking to play movies or listen to music, not caring about the encoding and wanting a plug and play experience, yes, this is a better solution than Android offers. Maybe Google Music will change that.
But that doesn't mean Xoom and Android are doomed. I couldn't care less about which platform is more popular. I guess I'm in the minority as I don't use it for games or movies. I wan't more than the ipad can give me. I want user expandable memory, multitasking, usb hosting, freedom to decide what programs make sense for me, rooting and the list goes on. I use mine to carry manuals and work information and as good as the ipad looks, for reading, characters look better on a Xoom. Maybe I want iboobs on my device, do I need Steve to tell me, no, it is inappropriate and I can't have it? At 47, I can have my wife tell me that. Steve doesn't tell me I don't want Flash!
I've use the Flash beta to watch Fox News TV it was flawless. That's probably the first and last time I'll use it as I didn't miss it with my ipad. How can it be dead when it is only available via a leaked beta?
It isn't an us or them situation. Think of it like a John and Paul relationship where there is some competition and some collaboration that makes a great overall experience. You may like Paul, I may like John but one without the other isn't nearly as good. ipad makes Android better and vice versa. Look at RIM, no reason for them to improve their user experience and now it looks like 2012 will be the year they're rolling out something "new".
Personally I'm waiting for HTC to design a Honeycomb tablet, they obviously know something about build quality and design that other manufactures do not. I don't care if that tablet is running HTC Sense, it will preform well and be beautiful.
mgerbasio said:
wall of text
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Click to collapse
Agree with you there. As a future tablet owner and android fan, I'm really having a hard time deciding on which tablet to pick. Every time I see a video of the xoom, the great browser and ui look, I'm sold. But then when Apple shows something like garageband, or other games/apps for the ipad, along with its "exterior", I'm sold for that aswell . This leaves me right in the middle, not a really good place to make a choice :/.
Apple just made a great move with its pricing, especially the 500 dollar model, which I believe is also there just to draw people to the store, where some decide to go for more memory. Here in Belgium, people won't choose something else over an iPad if the device isn't priced like atleast 50-100 euro cheaper, due to the "apple halo", which still exists here. I"m afraid a huge majority of people here falls into the "cartoony htc evo movie with the really annoying customer trying to buy an iphone 4 cuz it has the wifis"-category. There's also virtually no marketing for android (here). All of this leads to less sales => less developers.
Android is becoming a big hit on phones, but due to a lot of those being slow phones, game developers can't really bring their best, which is a little unforunate for people like me with SGS's.
Have the XOOM and the iPad 1. Went and played with the iPad 2 yesterday for quite a while. Nothing there to make me want to shed the XOOM or upgrade iPad 1, but agree with almost everything you say about a far more smoother user experience. That being said, I came home and read that the Samsumg Galaxy TAB 10.1 will come with a Super AMOLED display and that was all I needed to know to choose my next tablet. See below...
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has a fancy new Super AMOLED screen"
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1's screen is far better than the Apple iPad's in our opinion"
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/379227/hands_samsung_galaxy_tab_10_1/
Eclair~ said:
Personally I'm waiting for HTC to design a Honeycomb tablet, they obviously know something about build quality and design that other manufactures do not. I don't care if that tablet is running HTC Sense, it will preform well and be beautiful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When has HTC ever, EVER been ahead in performance especially related to graphics? They stink at anything related to GPU or video acceleration.
CJNYC said:
Have the XOOM and the iPad 1. Went and played with the iPad 2 yesterday for quite a while. Nothing there to make me want to shed the XOOM or upgrade iPad 1, but agree with almost everything you say about a far more smoother user experience. That being said, I came home and read that the Samsumg Galaxy TAB 10.1 will come with a Super AMOLED display and that was all I needed to know to choose my next tablet. See below...
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has a fancy new Super AMOLED screen"
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1's screen is far better than the Apple iPad's in our opinion"
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/379227/hands_samsung_galaxy_tab_10_1/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap. PLEASE Samsung don't ruin it by using a Tegra 2. PLEASE.
CJNYC said:
Have the XOOM and the iPad 1. Went and played with the iPad 2 yesterday for quite a while. Nothing there to make me want to shed the XOOM or upgrade iPad 1, but agree with almost everything you say about a far more smoother user experience. That being said, I came home and read that the Samsumg Galaxy TAB 10.1 will come with a Super AMOLED display and that was all I needed to know to choose my next tablet. See below...
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has a fancy new Super AMOLED screen"
"The Galaxy Tab 10.1's screen is far better than the Apple iPad's in our opinion"
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/379227/hands_samsung_galaxy_tab_10_1/
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Click to collapse
I honestly don't believe that. They are the first people who have used the GTab 10.1 to say that, and according to Engadget its a TFT LCD just like the Xoom. However, they also go on to say in the video that it may be same panel used on the original Galaxy Tab. Which they were impressed with.
muyoso said:
When has HTC ever, EVER been ahead in performance especially related to graphics? They stink at anything related to GPU or video acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By preform well I meant "good enough", not ahead of anyone.
All this Google vs Apple bantering reminds me so much of the IBM/Microsoft vs Apple desktop OS war. How IBM built up the open architeture for their PCs vs Apple closed hardware system.
Not that whats going on is 100% like back then. Apple's gone cheaper(tablet wise) than its competition and I think thats a heavy blow dealt to the Android side. Android, however has something that Apple doesn't have, mass market appeal. HTC, Motorola, Samsung, Kyocera, Sony, Dell, Acer, LG, Toshiba, Viewsonic, Archos to name a few.
Kinda like the PC.
Polished turd
The Apple platform is supposed to be this well polished I had the first and second Iphone and I wouldn't go back again.
iOS sucks thats the reality!
end of story
oh and anyone waiting for HTC to save the day, looking at the flyer and the bloatware they call sense I think I will stay with the moto and xoom
Gtab doesn't have an amoled screen, heck they can't even provide super amoled+ for all of their SGS II. It also has a tegra 2 chip. Even if not, it would still "only" be super amoled, and believe me (I have an original SGS), text does not look good with the Pentile subpixel structure, even though the SGS has a PPI of like 230. Going down to 160 would be horrible for text.
Source: Engadget
HTC was quite disappointing this H1 of 2011, no leaps forward, and the flyer will probably end up like the Tab 1, unfortunately.
The problem with the android 3.0 tablets is that they are the ones that have to convince the consumer (seeing as they are more expensive/new to the market). The first thing the average consumer sees is that the xoom/whatever tablet is plasticy, relatively heavy and "fat", which is not really the best first impression.
Cooki3s said:
Gtab doesn't have an amoled screen, heck they can't even provide super amoled+ for all of their SGS II. It also has a tegra 2 chip. Even if not, it would still "only" be super amoled, and believe me (I have an original SGS), text does not look good with the Pentile subpixel structure, even though the SGS has a PPI of like 230. Going down to 160 would be horrible for text.
Source: Engadget
HTC was quite disappointing this H1 of 2011, no leaps forward, and the flyer will probably end up like the Tab 1, unfortunately.
The problem with the android 3.0 tablets is that they are the ones that have to convince the consumer (seeing as they are more expensive/new to the market). The first thing the average consumer sees is that the xoom/whatever tablet is plasticy, relatively heavy and "fat", which is not really the best first impression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't the Xoom made out of aluminum? I haven't held one yet, but I'm assuming since you say this that it isn't obvious to tell?
I was talking more about android tablets in general, although I believe atleast a part of the back of the xoom is aluminium, but a part is "rubbery" if I'm correct. They don't have any of them here in Belgium so I wouldn't know for sure tbh.
thats my point though...I want Android/honeycomb to be popular so it gets more and more support....
It IS important whether you guys will admit it or not..Google isnt spending money to make techies happy...they want to make money, and the money is not here...its with the average joes...imo Honeycomb is NOT the problem...its the OEMs...one reason I was disappointed Nokia didn't hop on board because I think their hardware with Android could own Apple...
After having an ipad I will tell you the build on Xoom is actually as good and in some ways better
iceytea said:
All this Google vs Apple bantering reminds me so much of the IBM/Microsoft vs Apple desktop OS war. How IBM built up the open architeture for their PCs vs Apple closed hardware system.
Not that whats going on is 100% like back then. Apple's gone cheaper(tablet wise) than its competition and I think thats a heavy blow dealt to the Android side. Android, however has something that Apple doesn't have, mass market appeal. HTC, Motorola, Samsung, Kyocera, Sony, Dell, Acer, LG, Toshiba, Viewsonic, Archos to name a few.
Kinda like the PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Deja vu for sure.
iOS and Android each have their strengths and weaknesses. The iPad2 and Xoom hardware each have strengths and weaknesses. Some people prefer the feel of a closed ecosystem behind a pay-to-play walled garden, others prefer on open ecosystem with a vibrant dev community.
You can compare specs (or have a pissing contest) all you want but in the end trying to convince people who's preference differs from your own to instead prefer the same product you prefer is a waste of time, energy and keystrokes. Your inability to change their minds does not mean your own preference is inferior. It just means different people have different preferences. Let them.
In the long run what this competition means is that we all get a bunch of awesome gadgets to choose from. So stop worrying that some people prefer different things than you do. Spend that time and energy enjoying your preferences instead.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
HTC build quality far surpases motorola in my opinion. HTC phones ive owned and known have all been very reliable and beautifully well made. While sense isnt brilliant i still believe a HTC honeycomb tablet will be the one to have. It will look good and be well made. With far better customer services than motorola too.
I was lucky enough to get a nexus one. Stock android OS with a HTC phone. Its built brilliantly. That new samsung nexus s just looks abit flimsy to me.
What are you talking about ? iOS doesn't have a vibrant dev community? I think there's is larger than Android... You have to hack your Android to be completely "open" the same way some jb iOS. Same difference
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jamaicansolja said:
What are you talking about ? iOS doesn't have a vibrant dev community? I think there's is larger than Android... You have to hack your Android to be completely "open" the same way some jb iOS. Same difference
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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you completely missed the point of my post, I'll let someone interested in pissing contests explain the differences between creating apps and hacking and modding an OS.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Last paragraph is the best:
"As to the utility of tablets in general, I found more and more uses for my iPad during the past year and have come to realize its value and versatility as a computing device. Having said that, it has only taken me two weeks to all but discarded it in favor of what I consider as the “Grown Up” new tablet for business: the Xoom."
http://blogs.forbes.com/marcwebertobias/2011/03/15/apple-addicts-aside-xoom-is-better-than-ipad/
Good find. I bet Steve Jobs would take issue with his conclusions.
It was very well written, I myself still think honeycomb has a way to go.
Thread title is paraphrased...
If you read Anandtech's review of the Xoom you will notice that he chooses the Xoom over the iPad simply because it's much better at multi-tasking and feels that the Honeycomb OS is actually better than the iOS in most things. Having a faster GPU doesn't mean much if the OS feels outdated and lacking unless you're into tablet gaming.
IMO, Google has always come to market with a product that isn't finished but has loads of potential while Apple comes in with the finished product and very minor updates down the road. The Xoom/Honeycomb OS is no different than Google Search, Gmail, Maps, Android, etc - it's another platform that isn't complete at launch, but clearly capable of growing into the most versatile option on the market.
Tobias has it right here. It's just a matter of time before the market realizes what Google is offering.
Apple doesn't always come to market with the so called finished product. Very simple examples of this are when the ipad launched it did not have multitasking. Copy and paste, folders for IOS.
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Stop hating on the iPad DAM. The Xoom IS not better and vice versa. They both are incredible devices and like windows /mac is all choice! iPad 2 with its specific refined OS can run better than an OS made for everytype of hardware. So, with that said you will ALWAYS see better specs from PC'S and such. But Apple user experience is amazing. Honeycomb is beautiful but will be mass produced and hard foe the average consumer to differentiate.
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Nobody in this thread is hating on the ipad.
Why don't you go and respond to your thread about returning and switching for video playback?
Or just keep trolling.
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albundy2010 said:
Nobody in this thread is hating on the ipad.
Why don't you go and respond to your thread about returning and switching for video playback?
Or just keep trolling.
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x2. this article just makes him regret his decision to return it LOL.
albundy2010 said:
Apple doesn't always come to market with the so called finished product. Very simple examples of this are when the ipad launched it did not have multitasking. Copy and paste, folders for IOS.
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Even though it was lacking some features, that doesn't mean that it wasn't finished. Apple regularly releases finished products that lack features for the reason of ease of use, etc.. There is a difference between unfinished and lacking features on purpose. Apple would rather release without features than tack them on without the individual features being implemented correctly.
Lack of features for ease of use is rubbish.
The ipad was unfinished when it launched to me period. An essential part of it was missing. If I recall correctly the ipad was the last device to get updated to support multitasking.
I am not hating or even making a argument against apple. Just saying they should not be put up some pedestal.
When they released iOS 4 it basically rendered the 3g useless. On a joking note their phones still screw up time changes.
Anyways I really don't want to talk about apple. Or participate in any this vs that crap. Just don't want to hear this apple can do no wrong type of fanboy crap.
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albundy2010 said:
Lack of features for ease of use is rubbish.
The ipad was unfinished when it launched to me period. An essential part of it was missing. If I recall correctly the ipad was the last device to get updated to support multitasking.
I am not hating or even making a argument against apple. Just saying they should not be put up some pedestal.
When they released iOS 4 it basically rendered the 3g useless. On a joking note their phones still screw up time changes.
Anyways I really don't want to talk about apple. Or participate in any this vs that crap. Just don't want to hear this apple can do no wrong type of fanboy crap.
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Sorry no it really isn't rubbish. The iPad 1 was plenty useful and extremely user friendly, even without multitasking. The same can be said for any iPhone up to the 3GS before the software update. Think whatever you want, but Apple waited until they could do a seamless user experience with what they called multitasking, whether it is true multitasking or not. When they rolled out iOS 4 and multitasking for the iPad, it only added to the usability of the device.
Stop being so negative and just get real with the device's strongpoints. I'm not of the mentality that "Apple can do no wrong", but I at least give credit when credit is due. Whether you like their product launch strategy or not, they've done very well with it and I don't see that changing any time soon.
I went back to read his part 1 of the article. And I had a big pause after reading a 2nd paragraph.
Before the iPad or the new iPad2, manufacturers attempts at a tablet PC were a dismal failure. The original tablets were too heavy, too slow, the displays were hard to read in portrait mode, and they had poor battery life.
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Too slow? Wow, does he even know what he is talking about? Unless he is talking about very very early tablets that run on pre-core CPU system, then I cannot believe he is saying Core 2 Duo is slower than A5 or Tegra 2. I mean, I got like a 3 years Fujitsu T4215 a 12" SXGA+ convertible tablet running Windows 7 running on a Core 2 Duo T7200 w/ 4GB or RAM. And yes, it boot into Windows slower than those two tablet booting iOS or Honeycomb. But as a business tool, I can use it as part of my workflow for RAW conversion. It still take hours on this unit, but if I had to do it on iPad2 or Xoom it probably take days if not weeks to finish RAW conversion. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the rest of the article probably good, didn't read that far yet. But I still couldn't believe he call those system slow, especially if compared to something like core i5 or i7 that was release in 2008-2009.
I haven't posted since I got it, so just a short note of my thoughts. Since this is a related thread, I'll put this here. First off, I'm an Android guy, I want an Android tablet. I wanted the Xoom but...
The biggest number one thing that sold me on the iPad 2 over the Xoom was the screen. I thought the screen was the Xoom's advantage with the better aspect ratio and higher pixel count, but the Xoom's screen seriously under performs. The thing I wanted a tablet for was casual web browsing, maybe reading some books, and some web browsing. The Xoom's screen has a very poor viewing angle and just didn't look as good as the iPad's. Being that I want it for nothing more than media and web browsing, the iPad works out for me. I would rather have Android, but I also don't know if Honeycomb is so great right now. To me this is the first big step for Android tablets. They can compete now, but I think we need to see a better overall package and a software update before Android tablets take a step ahead, especially at a higher price point.
I think the performance is comparable enough to make that a non-factor in purchasing. Both are very nice packages with dual core CPUs and nice GPUs. The software, like I said, I'd rather have Android, but I don't necessarily know if I'd rather have 3.0, though I'm sure a few updates and community support and it will work just fine.
I mean no disrespect for the Xoom, I'm a completely unbiased tech guy, I use what works best at the time, not what company I love more. If anyone wants to get mad at me for picking an iPad over the Xoom, I'm sorry. I just wanted to post my impressions of both since I hadn't posted since I had hands on with both.
Now, when Samsung gets a Super AMOLED Android tablet out, I'll buy it the day it comes out. I think the issue is that I'm spoiled with my SAMOLED on my Captivate, so the iPad is already a step down in a way.
I liked the Xoom though. I just want to give Android a little time to mature on tablets. It's definitely an iPad competitor, but I think Android can offer more and blow the iPad away by this time next year.
someone0 said:
I went back to read his part 1 of the article. And I had a big pause after reading a 2nd paragraph.
Too slow? Wow, does he even know what he is talking about? Unless he is talking about very very early tablets that run on pre-core CPU system, then I cannot believe he is saying Core 2 Duo is slower than A5 or Tegra 2. I mean, I got like a 3 years Fujitsu T4215 a 12" SXGA+ convertible tablet running Windows 7 running on a Core 2 Duo T7200 w/ 4GB or RAM. And yes, it boot into Windows slower than those two tablet booting iOS or Honeycomb. But as a business tool, I can use it as part of my workflow for RAW conversion. It still take hours on this unit, but if I had to do it on iPad2 or Xoom it probably take days if not weeks to finish RAW conversion. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the rest of the article probably good, didn't read that far yet. But I still couldn't believe he call those system slow, especially if compared to something like core i5 or i7 that was release in 2008-2009.
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I hardly think he's talking about convertible laptop/tablets as tablets. Other than the fact that you can make it be a touch screen on the top of the device, they hardly compare. You're talking about an entire PC. The only thing I can't think of is what else was available that you could consider a tablet back then, because that was pretty much it. The smaller thin tablets we have today aren't really even the same class of device as the old convertible tablets of previous years. I'm not sure what he's comparing to.
Now, when Samsung gets a Super AMOLED Android tablet out,
I can guarantee you this will never happen, atleast not anytime soon.
Eclair~ said:
Now, when Samsung gets a Super AMOLED Android tablet out,
I can guarantee you this will never happen, atleast not anytime soon.
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You can't guarantee anything unless you are the CEO of Samsung. It's already been rumored since last year and they've built concept devices. As time goes and production costs go down, it's only natural that we'd see Samsung put some type of SAMOLED screen in the tablets. I wouldn't be surprised if the next refresh of the Galaxy Tab line is SAMOLED. We're talking a year or so probably, but that's fine, I don't need to be in the market for a tablet now for another year or two.
AJerman said:
The biggest number one thing that sold me on the iPad 2 over the Xoom was the screen. I thought the screen was the Xoom's advantage with the better aspect ratio and higher pixel count, but the Xoom's screen seriously under performs.
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I agree but if you don't have the direct comparison every day you get used to the Xoom's inferior screen. Unfortunately in this ever-evolving tech world it is virtually impossible to get "the Perfect Product". Apple's products have the unique benefit of having everything originating from the same source: Apple. No guessing what hardware needs to be supported so the software is tailored to every hardware detail. For almost every other OS out there the software manufacturers can only have minimal and recommended specs but at the end everything needs to be pieced together. It's almost as if you compare a hand-made, tailored suit from a designer to something you buy at Men's warehouse.
I personally do not see myself moving away from the Xoom anytime soon. Not sure if a Samsung screen is worth switching. I am past the time of my life when I always have to have the top-of-the-line gadget
funnycreature said:
I agree but if you don't have the direct comparison every day you get used to the Xoom's inferior screen. Unfortunately in this ever-evolving tech world it is virtually impossible to get "the Perfect Product". Apple's products have the unique benefit of having everything originating from the same source: Apple. No guessing what hardware needs to be supported so the software is tailored to every hardware detail. For almost every other OS out there the software manufacturers can only have minimal and recommended specs but at the end everything needs to be pieced together. It's almost as if you compare a hand-made, tailored suit from a designer to something you buy at Men's warehouse.
I personally do not see myself moving away from the Xoom anytime soon. Not sure if a Samsung screen is worth switching. I am past the time of my life when I always have to have the top-of-the-line gadget
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Yeah, I thought about that too, I just think my SGS and perhaps my SGS 2 soon with an SAMOLED+ would make me sad to look at my Xoom every day, haha. You're right about it being impossible to have the perfect product. The cost of production would be too hard to recoup from regular consumers that don't care as much about top of the line. I hate to make it sound so nit picky to decide on a tablet for it's screen, but I have a limited use for a tablet, and with media and book reading, a screen is one of the most important features.
I need to stop reading the Xoom forum though before I end up with a Xoom and the iPad. I am jealous because I don't have Android, haha.
Interesting article. Author got flamed pretty bad in the comments though.