Database Users

Why Google needs “Direct Push” for Google Apps

Direct Push with Google Apps?!?!?!
Hi everyone. I think I might have asked this question before but maybe something has developed in the last few months.
I am running my own IT consulting business and as I get more and more busy my calendar is becoming an ever more important tool. My dear wife went out and got me a good old-fashioned spiral bound day-timer but I have a sophisticated day-timer right here in my pocket in the form of my HTC Touch. As an IT consultant I think I should be using it rather then pulling out the pen and paper. Right now I am using the calendars in my Touch, Outlook, Google Apps and the calendar in the Exchange account I have with one of my customers. Too many calendars and all because I really want to use my Google Apps calendar and have it sync with my Touch.
I really want Google to develop “Direct Push” technology so that I can get my email, calendar and contacts all from my Google Apps account just like it was an Exchange Server. I am even considering switching my email back to an Exchange Server just so I can sync with my Touch. This way my wife could login and add stuff to my calendar and it will appear on my Touch. Right now I have my Email coming in from Google Apps via IMAP, my Calendar synching with Outlook (installed locally on my laptop without Exchange) and my Contacts syncing with my customer’s Exchange server. This is a pain and I want everything in one place that can be maintained/synced in real-time.
I will say this right now and keep in mind that as an IT consultant I like Microsoft’s products and install things like Windows 2003, SQL Server and Exchange on an almost daily basis. If Google develops “Direct Push” for Google Apps it will be an Exchange killer. The only, and I mean only reason I am thinking about switching my domain back to Exchange (I moved from Exchange to Google Apps about 1 year ago) is for the ability to sync everything (not just email) with my Touch.
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
The Fish

Oh and just in case anyone from Microsoft is listening, “threaded inbox” isn’t what I mean by “conversation style”. Come on Microsoft. Just admit that Google has actual built a better mousetrap and managed to improve on the age-old email model of “folders” and “sent items”. Go ahead and copy them… copy, copy copy! Oops sorry, I mean “embrace and extend, embrace and extend”

Something like that would be great!

matthew232 said:
Something like that would be great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not to mention totally do-able. There is already an non-Exchange mail server out there called “KerioMail Server” that implements Microsoft’s Direct Push protocol. Check out this link http://www.kerio.com/kms_activesync.html
Microsoft’s Direct Push is entirely HTTP based. It shouldn’t be that difficult for Google to do.
The Fish.

I guess you have to wait for Google Android.

thefish123 said:
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but have you checked out any of the 3rd party sync options? GMobileSync is a free little program that allows bidirectional syncing for your calendar (not push though). GooSync offers a free service level that also gives you calendar syncing. If you upgrade to their payed version (I think it is something like $30-40 for a whole year) you get not only calendar sync, but contacts, tasks etc. Might be worth a look.

jeffreycentex said:
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft would never do it without making it an option. But I am surprised to hear you say that you head Gmail’s threading. Quite honestly you have got to be the FIRST person I have heard say that.
I have never (till now) talked to anyone who switched to Gmail who didn’t have anything but good to say about it. Most people I know who use Outlook or Outlook Express and who do ANY real volume of email spend at least an hour to two hours a day “organizing” their email. They have a whole list of sub-folders under their Inbox and then have almost the exact same set of sub-folders under their “Sent Items”. They spend time trying to decide how to file things or if they should file it in the first place or just delete it. Sometimes they delete and email and two of three days later the whole issue has ballooned into a big issue and they are filing the responses but no longer have their original email because they didn’t think it would become important.
Gmail lets me keep my Inbox clean while at the same time never worrying about filing or organizing or having trouble finding things back. I would probably hate Gmail if I was still trying to fit it into my narrow 20-year-old “I must use folders” paradigm of thinking (which I did when I first started using Gmail) but it was fun to give up on that and the new paradigm of “never file, never delete” is so superior.
I don’t really case WHERE my email is as long as I can find it back in a natural way. I think in years to come we are going to see the same thing happening on computers and to some extent we already are. The #1 reason most people hate Windows Vista is because of the way the new “Explorer” obscures the hierarchal folder model that everyone is used to from our Norton Commander days. It is really very Mac-like. Most Mac users couldn’t tell you where their pictures were in terms of a “directory” or a “folder” but they have less trouble finding them, or copying them to a USB drive, or attaching them to an email then most Windows users.
If we ever do see WinFS (Windows Future Storage) it is supposed to be a Microsoft SQL layer bolted on top of the file system and gives you database-style searchability with all kinds of meta data attached.
The thinking behind the Reiser file system is that any structure on top of the file system for storing data indicates that the file system isn’t doing it’s job. And I can kinda see the point.
The Fish

I agree, Gmail should definately come out with direct push technology
I currently use gmail with pocket outlook with imap.
It's annoying having it set to check my email in intervals.
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
I'm hoping android will implement features like direct push, among others.

surgex0 said:
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
Click to expand...
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It’s not even so much that I want “push” email (although that would be cool). The biggest issue is that there is no way to sync my Calendar and my Contacts with Gmail. This means I either A) have to use the Calendar/Contacts on my Touch in their “stand alone” form without syncing to anything or B) have to sync them with something else.
I really like being able to use my web-based Gmail calendar (Google Apps) but I wish like crazy there was some way to get this on my Touch.
The Fish.
PS: when you sign-up for Google Apps it asks you what (if any) previous mail system you used. As an example it says in brackets “Microsoft Exchange”. This makes me think that Google Apps is positioning themselves to take the SMB email market away from Exchange. I think if they really want to do this they will make Google Apps look just like an Exchange Server to the millions of WM devices out there. Currently I am seriously considering moving my email back to Exchange when I get my own server online (in a few weeks).

Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Googlemaps apparently has a native app now (altho I would rather use Livesearch), so no, they aren't all JAVA. I take it you visit the HTML site instead of using IMAP so that you can see the threading and other g-mail features?

If you want gmail to push, use SEVEN at
community.seven.com
john

Sync & Push
I use www.mobipush.com to push my gmail and it works instantaneously. Fantastic. This is free, perhaps only while they are in beta.
I also use www.oggsync.com for syncing my calendar. There is a free version, but I bought the software and daily sync about 11 calendars 2 months backwards and 2 years forwards. Hardly ever any issues. They are working on contact sync - have a public beta out now.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don’t know if it’s really the Gmail client that sucks so much as that it just doesn’t run properly on the version of Java that comes on my Touch (the Bell Mobility Touch in Canada). I was pretty happy to have the Java Gmail client on my Razr back before I got my Touch.
That being said I keep hoping they will come out with a native Windows Mobile version like they did with Google Maps. But then again it seems kinda silly to come out with an email client for a device that already has a built-in integrated email client. The better solution would be to make the pre-exiting email, calendar and contacts features work properly (as in within their native capacity – meaning DirectPush) with their Gmail counterparts.
The Fish

HTC Sync on Nexus One

I want to sync my Outlook information on my PC with the Nexus one and I have heard good news about the HTC sync. Does anyone know if the HTC Sync will work with the Nexus One or does anyone know a better app? Thanks.

scuse me while a LMFAO!!!
No, it won't work with HTC sync. sadly, i don't know of any alternatives. If you are just using it for the first initial sync, then just import your outlook information into your google account and be done with it.
If you need ongoing sync possibilities, then unless anyone else knows something that i don't, then this is not the droid you're looking for.

Thanks, I figured as such.

Nobody has any concern about uploading all these potentially personal and sensitive information into the cloud?
We really trust Google that much?

To sync your calender events you can use this:
http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=89955
To sync your Outlook contacts, you can set u your Exchange account to sync contacts as well.

I'm not 'afraid' of Google, but I would prefer that my desktop and my device be synced. Contacts, Calendar, etc. I use Outlook, and I was happy when my Hermes was in-sync. I'd definitely like Outlook-Android sync.
-bZj

The days of PC > Device sync are dying a slow and painful death. From MobileMe to Google Sync to Microsoft Exchange & MyPhone, just about every smartphone short of Blackberry wants you to use the 'cloud'. Not like it matters, seeing as how we are already in the Matrix...

This is simply not true - it might be true for end-users, but you can be pretty sure that most companies will not allow "cloud sync" in the forseeable future. They have their own IT infrastructure and IT policies do not allow sharing of corporate data on some 3rd party servers like Google "Cloud".
Google knows that, and that's why they did enable MS Exchange ActiveSync.
However, for many SMEs this does not work, as they do not rely on MS Exchange - their workers rather use desktop outlook accounts.
IMHO this is a very big problem. I am experimenting with few Android sync applications ("Missing Sync", "CompanionLink", etc...) but all of them have some flaws - like no 2-way sync, some proprietary calendar app, etc...

Ivan Dimkovic said:
This is simply not true - it might be true for end-users, but you can be pretty sure that most companies will not allow "cloud sync" in the forseeable future. They have their own IT infrastructure and IT policies do not allow sharing of corporate data on some 3rd party servers like Google "Cloud".
Google knows that, and that's why they did enable MS Exchange ActiveSync.
However, for many SMEs this does not work, as they do not rely on MS Exchange - their workers rather use desktop outlook accounts.
IMHO this is a very big problem. I am experimenting with few Android sync applications ("Missing Sync", "CompanionLink", etc...) but all of them have some flaws - like no 2-way sync, some proprietary calendar app, etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried TOUCHDOWN?

TOUCHDOWN? what this? i don't want to import all the contacts to Google, prefer my desktop and device be synced...

I'm on the same boat here. I was very happy with Symbian-iSync/Mac-iPhone ecosystem until I moved to Android/Linux. Open standard support does not exist on this Android/Linux combination.
Talking about open standard, there is Android-SyncML app in the work. It's still an alpha release, so I'm not sure how reliable it is. But this is a good sign. Once Android has SyncML support, then you can sync to whatever platform supporting this protocol.
Google "android-client syncml". (I can't post links)

I think most of us already sold their soul to Google... so yah?! hahahaha
eaglesteve said:
Nobody has any concern about uploading all these potentially personal and sensitive information into the cloud?
We really trust Google that much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Touch is for an exchange server not to be used with a pop or imap. Would love to get HTC sync to work with my epic. Why hasn't someone came up with a good solution?

Companion Link
I wanted ongoing sync with outlook and was disappointed there's nothing that is good and free for n1. I bought companion link for google and outlook. It was $30 but it works well. So outlook updates google (not the phone directly but you can get it to sync the phone directly) and then the phone syncs with google.

k?
phone <-> cloud <-> desktop
Is how it's meant to work. What bit doesn't?

@Henchman: You saved my life I went around for ages looking for that!

I'm on take two trying to type this without sounding condencending but its hard because some people just dont get it. It often doesnt matter what you want at work. You do your job the way you are told. Many people have to sync with a local version of outlook, the cloud isnt an option and wont be for a long time if ever on third party servers. Got nothing to do with what they want or whats better. Got nothing to do with whether or not you think or I think or anyone thinks outlook sucks. Its a fact of life while going about the job. I have to use two phones because of this and like many I wish android would grow up so it could go out in the daddy world which is dominated by microsoft as far as office software goes. Another thing that wont be changing quickly due to the long term investment in it. And yes, I get that many of you can use it as a work phone. A whole lot of people cant and were talking millions which brings me back to the beginning. Many people cannot use a third party cloud solution and must sync with a local install of outlook for various reasons. OK?

rhedgehog said:
scuse me while a LMFAO!!!
No, it won't work with HTC sync..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Working now
http://android.modaco.com/content/g...nc-on-nexus-one-with-r24-edit-working/#entry0
There's also an updated version available now from HTC.

DirkGently1 said:
Working now
http://android.modaco.com/content/g...nc-on-nexus-one-with-r24-edit-working/#entry0
There's also an updated version available now from HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, so the Nexus One works with HTC Sync, and HTC Sync can sync Outlook contacts and calender entries. (http://www.htc.com/www/support.aspx)
Cool.
I've tried Touchdown and other competitors, and like the above posters, I felt Companion Link came the closest. I was very close to buying their license (i called them once and they do allow the $39 license to be used on 3 PCs that you may want to sync your phone with. Eg. Laptop and Desktop).
This *might* lose CompanionLink some customers, but can anyone verify if HTC Sync can sync Tasks and Notes too, like CompanionLink does?
I like CompanionLink for that and their post 3.2 versions seem to be doing it well. The only problems I see that have given me pause to fully purchasing it are:
- Fat thumbs..I still use my Winmo Keyboard phone thus.
- SMS Bug in Android is still not worked out.
- DejaOffice is the front end application for CompanionLink on N1 and in Android, and its not a totally seamless experience with the front end UI integration that Tasks and Calender had in the Windows Mobile environment/desktop/home-screen. (Maybe some widgets might give resolve to that).
That said, Swype skillz + SMS Bug Fix + Widgets vs Dejaoffice, would make Companionlink a winner for me, and would get my money, because theirs no cloud involved.

Couldn't this answer your question?
http://www.android-sync.com/
It's an early build like they say. But it might match what you're looking for.

[Q] What are the Live Services??

What are the Windows Live Services that don't work on a HD2 that isn't activated. I've searched all over but they all just mention the word Live Services or Hotmail, but nothing else.
The reason I ask is that if it is just things like Xbox Live and the Market place then I don't care if i don't have them. Once i can still have access to my Exchange server then I'm happy.

Afaik it's (this ?)
But on the phone only a few are available, but non without the activation
Just joking, without the activation you can't :
*Sign into a Hotmail Account.
*Thus Signing into Xbox Live
*Use the marketplace
*Buy music off Zune (or movies)
*Sync with a Windows Live ID (same as 1st)
I'm not sure about the exchange, but it should work.

Thank you so much for this response. This doesn't seem to bad what soever, although I guess the only bad thing is not being able to purchase any apps from the Market Place as I use my Sat Nav software daily.
Might just give this baby a go. Can always flash back to my Nand Desire HD build if I don't like it.

hread moved to HD2 Windows Phone 7 Q&A and General

[Q] [q] Changing email acount!

after being fed up with marketplace being unavailable in greece, i decided to ccreate a US hotmail to use with my phone. thing is, although i got the phone to synchronise pretty much everything from my primary hotmail account, xbox live still syncs with the new one. so, is there a way to change the e-mail from which the phone gets its xbox live info from? i dunno, from the registry or something?? and on a completely different subject, since i reinstalled wp7 is there a way to batch install all my XAPs? thanks in advance!

[Q] Convince me to switch to Android!

Hello my friends. Thank you in advanced for any help/input you give.
Here's my thing.. I am an avid M$er (yes I know, but I get as much good from it as the bad). I'm a professional IT guy, and I run my home network on Enterprise lvl MS Server software and Windows on all PCs.
I have been using WinMo since the days of PPC, so I know the software. I decided to give WP7 a test run (even knowing the limitations) a couple months ago, and still am disappointed. Unfortunately I got stuck with it till now, because just after I installed it my personal Exchange server crashed. It's significant because it holds all of my contact info and schedule (for backup and retrieval when I change roms), so I had to wait till I had time and patience to recover the server and my database, which left me with my only current copy of info on the phone as it couldn't get pushed back to the server to store (I never put my info online so no uploading it wasn't an option for me).
Finally exchanger recovered, its time for me to be rid of this headache of a mobile OS and initially I was going to go back to my favorite HD2 WM6.5.3 rom, but when I finally visited the thread, I came back to realize my fav rom cooker is no longer developing for my device..
So I'm faced with the choices of still using the most current from my fav cooker, finding another WM cooker and get acquainted, or try out Android seriously for a little while at least (I've had it on SD from the beginning, but not definitively explored it).
My main thing is it has to connect to my servers. That's my bread and butter so to speak. I need it to connect to my Exchange and sync seamlessly contact and schedule (main things, but would definitely like as much sync as possible), but never upload my info to Google or anywhere else. So my first proviso is can it do that? (please remember I've never seriously explored Android for this intent), and can you provide info on it?
On remote desktopping and file sharing, like I said I have enterprise lvl servers so my network is high lvl security, can it connect to this kind of network (with certs from my CA)?
Third important thing to me, and one of the big reasons I dislike WP7, the interface. I'm in lust with HTC's sense from WM6.5 roms. Absolutely like it. Is there a way to at least mimic this sense? I've been missing the at-a-glance full screen weather updates soo much too.
Aside from those things, Android on HD2 already has a plus from me for having flash, my favorite IM program (Trillian), and the wifi calling (I live in an area where I don't get service till I'm miles from home).
So with those things in mind, can someone recommend Android to me, and possibly give me as much info as they can on the features that are most important to me? Again, I've played with Android, only a little (American Android currently), and mostly to help clients and friends out.
Thanks again for your help
DemonLoader ;-)

http://www.motorola.com/Support/US-EN/Support-Homepage/Android-Support/Microsoft+Exchange+Email

Thank you PresidentMcCain that is very favorable info. So my question is now, if I set Exchange up as primary email, then add my google account, will it try to sync my exchange contacts with google?

Have you looked at Appbrain website - you can explore all the apps on the market with a good description.
Im new to android (from long standing 6.5 use) and im extremly impressed, using sd method so i can fall back on 6.5 if i need it (), but it wont be long before its ditched.

You can choose specifically what or what not to sync with Google the first time when you boot up the ROM or in the Settings.
Using the "Email" app will not sync with Google servers unless you choose to forward your mail to your Gmail account (duh).

Thanks again. So what about calendar and other info synced with exchange, one note, sharepoint ect?

You can sync your contacts, tasks, messages and calendar from exchange (all of it, or you can choose which sections to sync), and it will never share it with Google for no reason (in fact you would have to explicitly copy the info yourself using import/export methods). It's worth noting that Google accounts themselves actually use exchange so both work similarly.
Sent from my HTC HD2 überphone

Thanks kbm, I didn't know about the site. But that will be very helpful if I switch.
Thanks Atomix86, That puts to rest my questions about connecting and syncing with my exchanger. Very helpful info indeed.
Anyone have any thoughts about the rest?

DemonLoader said:
Thanks kbm, I didn't know about the site. But that will be very helpful if I switch.
Thanks Atomix86, That puts to rest my questions about connecting and syncing with my exchanger. Very helpful info indeed.
Anyone have any thoughts about the rest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem at all, let me know if you need any more help.

Looking at the link PresidentMcCain posted, I realized the info was for Exchange 2003 and 2007. Will this also help for connecting to Exchange 2010 as well? That is what my exchange server is, and remembering a friend who just got a Mytouch 4g recently was having a problem connecting to Exchange 2010 with the default app.

DemonLoader said:
Looking at the link PresidentMcCain posted, I realized the info was for Exchange 2003 and 2007. Will this also help for connecting to Exchange 2010 as well? That is what my exchange server is, and remembering a friend who just got a Mytouch 4g recently was having a problem connecting to Exchange 2010 with the default app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1179050
Maybe this might help. I read it this morning than came across this thread.
i dont know about exchange accounts. So if this is what you needed than its all good.

Thanks czarsuperstar, that app would help with note syncing, but looks like not for connecting to Exchange 2010 in general.

I was on winmo for a while and loved it to be honest but i went to sd android back in January an the google syncs convinced me and not long after i got nand and Ive not once looked back, i went back on winmo about a month ago just to see whats new etc and think i had it on for about 20 miutess before i flashed android straight back so its always worth a shot so id test the sd builds first to get your own opinion and then build on from there
Good luck and enjoy the future....