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12/17/2008 - Imagination
In this post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459941
I clearly state to use your imagination.
I was hoping to get some positive feedback but instead I got some ignorant comments.
The sole purpose to my previous thread was to see what other people (forum members) were interested in. The design features I mentioned are not impossible at all, but then again I was just using my imagination.
I thought I was gonna get some suggested changes to my thoughts but out of all the views no answers. Ah well I did get somebodies attention although it wasn't the type of attention intended.
But for future references when someone asks that you use your imagination they mean to actually use it. Ok well its time to crash......Ciao
Okay, I'd like a phone that is implemented into my eyes and ears. It should have a 2gb/s connection speed, with full video support for every video type imaginible (including ones that haven't been made yet), and if it isn't out in the next 5 seconds than HTC/Google needs to get their **** together NOW.
Gary13579 said:
Okay, I'd ....
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lol
Also it should be free
atleast its imagination lol even tho its all sarcasm
jeez you take yourself way to seriously.....
To make a post about your disgruntled feelings about another post is the most egomanicial faux paux you can make on a forum, we could all look at a device and say this that and the other thing should be better and or different, and DREAM...
but to put all those things together in a slim package and a slim price point isn't possible, your DREAM phone may be possible today but Id bet it might be a bit large and painfully expensive, both of which the G1 is not, its basiclly an early adopter targeted device, that is just a taste of things to come from an open source world where each new phone you buy is familliar and there is a way to easily migrate your data, cause its the same OS...
To top it off this tephonic utopia I speak of is OPEN!
this is like the Barak Obama of mobile phones...it's about change damn1t
(I hope I spelled his name right, i voted 4 his arse)
bhang
bhang said:
but to put all those things together in a slim package and a slim price point isn't possible, your DREAM phone may be possible today but Id bet it might be a bit large and painfully expensive, both of which the G1 is not, its basiclly an early adopter targeted device, that is just a taste of things to come from an open source world where each new phone you buy is familliar and there is a way to easily migrate your data, cause its the same OS...
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Thank you.
We quickly seem to forget just how inexpensive the G1 actually is. We would love a phone with a great flash, headphone adapter, etc... but I'm sure it just wasn't possible to build and release such a phone for the targeted price point.
I can almost gaurantee we will see one coming out, I'm curious what the Sony Ericcson model will be.
Compared to a device like the iPhone, the G1 has a full keyboard and trackball, it's most likely more expensive to make these features. Which is why the iPhone has decent internal storage and a headphone jack. I would bet these weren't left off because HTC is lazy, it's because these would increase the price past the targeted point.
I have often wondered why, since memory is getting stupidly cheap, why we dont see more internal ram and rom. I am sure in the future we will see huge strides. In fact, I am quite sure one day we will be able to upgrade them at a component level like a real pc or laptop instead of as an accessory.
When you ask what we would like to see, you need to keep in mind that technology is progressing faster and faster. Things like a built in projector, wireless usb, and many others will be here some day.
Currently, spec and feature wise I think the phone has what it needs already (ok, well- except the foolishly small battery)
If you really want hi-tech, check out the NS08 hahaha
On the outside someone might be thinking the N1 is a terrible phone plauged with problems etc. But the more I look into these articles and reviews they seem to be 'complaining' about non issues.
You've all seen the engadget and gizmodo reviews, but take this article: 6 reasons not to like the nexus one!? This guy made up his mind before he even picked up the phone, and then wrote his article based on other bias reviews.
There was also an article featured on /. regarding the support backlash but all it cites are random 'customers' getting bounced around, and doesn't corrilate a common problem or state what these 'people' were having problem with. However there does seem to be a real problem with 3g/edge flapping. If the article had been written as well as this random forum poster I would be fine with it, but instead PCW took the angle of FUD, and it just angers me.
...and then it hit me, this phone might just be the iphone killer and fanboys are actually getting scared. Thoughts?
"6 reasons to hate" is a hands-off schoolboy attempt at bashing.
he's just pissed he isn't important enough (or hasn't budgeted his finances) enough to have one handed him.
the other non-reviews are a farce. when there is a real, hands on, weekly use review of the nexus, i'll listen up. for now it's all M$ generated (and other mobile OS venders) fud that proves the nexus is awesome hardware, running awesome software.
sure, there are some what-ifs about verizon/att/whoever, but they're just carriers. dumb pipes. really really dumb pipes. we all know it's the hardware and more importantly the SOFTWARE that matters. the dumb pipe carriers are just mad they finally have a real reason to fear phones that are not chained to their crappy services and contracts.
let them whine. the fud is easy to cut through with logic.
I got the Nexus One. Your are correct, the only problem is the 2G/3G connection switching. The computing power of this phone is amazing.
I never like professional reviews for anything, movies, games or tech because theyre all just some one paid to write their opinion, and you never know whos writing their check, or their companies check. I do however like user reviews from people that paid for and really use the product, and I think those have been strong. I think the most important part of the "6 reasons not to like" article is all the backlash at the bottom and users defending the phone, shows how much people really like theirs already. I am really lovin this phone, also I havent had the 3G issues some have been having, I have a mytouch, G1 and N1, all on TMob and they all have 3G all the time for me, I think it really depends on the market cause if it was a hardware or software issue I would think everyone would have that problem
am I the only one who IS NOT seeing this 2G-3G problem? I mean I do see the 3G connection sometimes going from 2 bars to 4 bars in the same area, and In some places around where I live I can't get 3G coverage, but this is the EXACT SAME behavior I saw on my MT3G
First off, I have to say that I absolutely love the N1...I don't remember the last time I was this obsessed with a gadget both before and after I got it.
That being said, I was starting to get a little nervous while waiting for FedEx because of all the bad press I was seeing. But then I noticed that a large chunk of this press was generated by sites like macworld.com or other apple, iphone, mac related sites. While the N1 has some minor glitches(what piece of technology doesn't), this is mostly a case of fanboys feeling threatened because people won't be oohing and aahing over there iphone as much.
P.S. I came from a G1 and am seeing absolutely no difference/problem with my 2g/3g service.
These network issues seem to be only in the US.
Never had any problems in the UK with my iPhone/3G, G1, Hero.
But then again pretty much all the UK is 3G anyway
Clearly people are writing this phone off without even seeing/using it!
Was in work and two are big WinMo and iPhone fans and they even said a few hours after it was officially announced that the iPhone is better without even knowing anything about it! I then told them about the Snapdragon / 512mb ram etc and then they shifted it saying yer but Android is rubbish!
But in work their are also a few Android users (G1, Tattoo and Hero) and they couldn't wait to see what Android does and if anything from the N1 will get ported etc!
Its just like the good old which console is the best? 360 or PS3! You can argue all day but you will never win the argument!
fdm1 said:
First off, I have to say that I absolutely love the N1...I don't remember the last time I was this obsessed with a gadget both before and after I got it.
That being said, I was starting to get a little nervous while waiting for FedEx because of all the bad press I was seeing. But then I noticed that a large chunk of this press was generated by sites like macworld.com or other apple, iphone, mac related sites. While the N1 has some minor glitches(what piece of technology doesn't), this is mostly a case of fanboys feeling threatened because people won't be oohing and aahing over there iphone as much.
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Or people buying their magazine/products
The fact that "no multi - touch" is riddled on most reviews and that most people are referencing Engadget should make you realize the TERRIBLE shape electronic reviews are in.
Theres only a handful of people that know wtf theyre talking about. Im convinvec none of those people work at Engadget or the slew of other "tech review" sites Im reading. How do you review a product youve never touched ? How do you give a review based on anothers review ? Insulting a trackball ??
I mean jeez sound slike this guy would have his mind blown by a pair of AA batteries.
xManMythLegend said:
The fact that "no multi - touch" is riddled on most reviews and that most people are referencing Engadget should make you realize the TERRIBLE shape electronic reviews are in.
Theres only a handful of people that know wtf theyre talking about. Im convinvec none of those people work at Engadget or the slew of other "tech review" sites Im reading. How do you review a product youve never touched ? How do you give a review based on anothers review ? Insulting a trackball ??
I mean jeez sound slike this guy would have his mind blown by a pair of AA batteries.
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not if AAA batteries were already invented, then the AA would just be stupid because they are missing an "i"... i mean "A"!
bofslime said:
On the outside someone might be thinking the N1 is a terrible phone plauged with problems etc. But the more I look into these articles and reviews they seem to be 'complaining' about non issues.
You've all seen the engadget and gizmodo reviews, but take this article: 6 reasons not to like the nexus one!? This guy made up his mind before he even picked up the phone, and then wrote his article based on other bias reviews.
There was also an article featured on /. regarding the support backlash but all it cites are random 'customers' getting bounced around, and doesn't corrilate a common problem or state what these 'people' were having problem with. However there does seem to be a real problem with 3g/edge flapping. If the article had been written as well as this random forum poster I would be fine with it, but instead PCW took the angle of FUD, and it just angers me.
...and then it hit me, this phone might just be the iphone killer and fanboys are actually getting scared. Thoughts?
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i agree completely. i have zero, ZERO problems with by n1 except for the dynamic polar clock of course. Google was very prompt with a return e-mail about the polar clock also. im very sure Google has an update soon for up to fix the polar clock and the 3g/edge switch issue. i seem to remember alot of bad press about the iphone when it originally came out also, as i recall it had alot of bugs. i guess this is "bad press" is our hater-aid and we should just drink up while the ifanboys drink their Apple kool-aid.
xManMythLegend said:
The fact that "no multi - touch" is riddled on most reviews and that most people are referencing Engadget should make you realize the TERRIBLE shape electronic reviews are in.
Theres only a handful of people that know wtf theyre talking about. Im convinvec none of those people work at Engadget or the slew of other "tech review" sites Im reading. How do you review a product youve never touched ? How do you give a review based on anothers review ? Insulting a trackball ??
I mean jeez sound slike this guy would have his mind blown by a pair of AA batteries.
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REMOVABLE BATTERIES?! NON-SENSE! (sarcasm)
I don't really get why people are bashing the N1. In the end, it's the same as the 3gs in terms of app placement- the hardware's faster than the other two models and developers have to make a choice of whether or not to take advantage of it- Android's made tons of improvements and now there's even fewer restrictions on the hardware (sold unlocked, super easy root)
I've loved my G1 for awhile and while it's a tank, I eagerly await getting the N1 at the end of the month as I've been able to toy with one (boss ordered after CES) and it pretty much lives up to all the hype.
I'm eager to get my hands on the section of the SDK that will allow for programming of live wallpapers- i love theming, and I can't wait to get a few of my ideas for a live background.
melterx12 said:
am I the only one who IS NOT seeing this 2G-3G problem? I mean I do see the 3G connection sometimes going from 2 bars to 4 bars in the same area, and In some places around where I live I can't get 3G coverage, but this is the EXACT SAME behavior I saw on my MT3G
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NO problems with 3G/EDGE here either. Same performance as my G1.
bofslime said:
On the outside someone might be thinking the N1 is a terrible phone plauged with problems etc. But the more I look into these articles and reviews they seem to be 'complaining' about non issues.
You've all seen the engadget and gizmodo reviews, but take this article: 6 reasons not to like the nexus one!? This guy made up his mind before he even picked up the phone, and then wrote his article based on other bias reviews.
There was also an article featured on /. regarding the support backlash but all it cites are random 'customers' getting bounced around, and doesn't corrilate a common problem or state what these 'people' were having problem with. However there does seem to be a real problem with 3g/edge flapping. If the article had been written as well as this random forum poster I would be fine with it, but instead PCW took the angle of FUD, and it just angers me.
...and then it hit me, this phone might just be the iphone killer and fanboys are actually getting scared. Thoughts?
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lol that 6 reasons article is definitly a Iphone user trying to give google and t-mobile a bad name, BUT im not to fond of them right now myself because of the whole family plan/Corporate discount thing which is keeping me from getting one cause im not spending 530$ haha.
xManMythLegend said:
The fact that "no multi - touch" is riddled on most reviews and that most people are referencing Engadget should make you realize the TERRIBLE shape electronic reviews are in.
Theres only a handful of people that know wtf theyre talking about. Im convinvec none of those people work at Engadget or the slew of other "tech review" sites Im reading. How do you review a product youve never touched ? How do you give a review based on anothers review ? Insulting a trackball ??
I mean jeez sound slike this guy would have his mind blown by a pair of AA batteries.
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The trackball comment sounded like it was pulled directly from the gizmodo review. The trackball does the same thing it has on every android phone, there's nothing to report here.
Those tech writer/review are dumb asses. Every new good potential phones that come out they write up a review or hand on and then compare it to the iphone and then they talk junk about it. Esp those engadget @sshole. For ex, when the N900 came out, they talk mad sh!t about it comparing to the iphone, well for once, if they were smart enough, iphone is up to 3.1 version, and maemo 5 is still not complete. And now the nexus, android os had about 1.5 yr to grow so far. Iphone os? Well maybe 3 now? Iphone didnt have mms til 3.0 comes out, those reviewer are a bunch of iphone fanboys who seriously cant stand the thought of a competing device that might have a chance to beat it. I rather read forums and base my buying decision than trusting some blog writing techy.
shata said:
lol that 6 reasons article is definitly a Iphone user trying to give google and t-mobile a bad name, BUT im not to fond of them right now myself because of the whole family plan/Corporate discount thing which is keeping me from getting one cause im not spending 530$ haha.
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I had a discussion yesterday with one of my coworkers on that, because he's stuck on a family plan. But this is a t-mobile decision, and them doing what they've always done and screwing over existing customer in favor of new signups. I'd kinda like to see the churn numbers at tmo. In any event, its still cheaper to buy the phone outright and continue with my grandfathered plan, even further non-contract plans are still cheaper in the end, and tmo is the only provider currently offering this inside the United States.
I hate everything about my new super sleek, super fast N1. What I hate most is its speed. Actually, I think I hate its awesome screen the most. Or that it's too light and thin for the power it has. I also hate how easily my contacts, calendar and email sync seemlessly with my device. I hate the fact I have to use a top of the line browser when going online and I especially hate that all my music plays so well. Watching all those HD quality movies I've converted and watching high quality YouTube videos is so boring. I can't stand my desktop full of all those widgets that provide me with useful information and those folders keeping my apps sorted just get in the way. But--and here's the most important thing I hate about my N1--I hate that I can make phone calls wherever I am. I'd much rather my calls be dropped. And that's all before I even rooted it to get access to more stuff to make my N1 terrible.
AndroidAppCritic said:
I hate everything about my new super sleek, super fast N1. What I hate most is its speed. Actually, I think I hate its awesome screen the most. Or that it's too light and thin for the power it has. I also hate how easily my contacts, calendar and email sync seemlessly with my device. I hate the fact I have to use a top of the line browser when going online and I especially hate that all my music plays so well. Watching all those HD quality movies I've converted and watching high quality YouTube videos is so boring. I can't stand my desktop full of all those widgets that provide me with useful information and those folders keeping my apps sorted just get in the way. But--and here's the most important thing I hate about my N1--I hate that I can make phone calls wherever I am. I'd much rather my calls be dropped. And that's all before I even rooted it to get access to more stuff to make my N1 terrible.
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+1 Those things are SO annoying! And how about that damn 5mp camera with it's stupid flash taking really good pictures all the time, it's like god, stop already, I don't want to see things so well!
AndroidAppCritic said:
I hate everything about my new super sleek, super fast N1. What I hate most is its speed. Actually, I think I hate its awesome screen the most. Or that it's too light and thin for the power it has. I also hate how easily my contacts, calendar and email sync seemlessly with my device. I hate the fact I have to use a top of the line browser when going online and I especially hate that all my music plays so well. Watching all those HD quality movies I've converted and watching high quality YouTube videos is so boring. I can't stand my desktop full of all those widgets that provide me with useful information and those folders keeping my apps sorted just get in the way. But--and here's the most important thing I hate about my N1--I hate that I can make phone calls wherever I am. I'd much rather my calls be dropped. And that's all before I even rooted it to get access to more stuff to make my N1 terrible.
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Hi,
I am an executive for Engadget.com and I have taken an interest in your talent for reviewing new technology and writing reports. I would like to offer you a job on my staff for reviewing new phones on the market. I won't go into detail on public forums about the specifics of the job but I can tell you that we will supply you with a free Iphone3gs and free unlimited everything contract, compliments of our partnership with Apple and ATT. If you would like further details please private message me.
Thanks
SamsungMobileUS: Seeking To Defuse Tensions, Samsung Opens Dialogue With XDA-Dev Forum - http://ow.ly/3X2cL @SamsungJohn
Sent from my non-rooted, stock eclair Epic.
I'd say the rants of people saying they're never going Samsung again seems to be paying off?
XtaC318 said:
I'd say the rants of people saying they're never going Samsung again seems to be paying off?
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No pay day yet. This is Sammy's way of confessing they have been trying to do it their way instead of please the customer for too long.
It still remains to be seen what they actually DO about it.
We all know what pathway good intentions paved =]
The bottom line is until sammy gets the carriers in line, and froyo gets released before its 1st birthday! People will rant with good reason. Btw gingerbread has been out for like 3 months! We have a top of the line device running an os from 2009. Honestly I love the hardware but I can't handle this bad os support.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Whoever even buys another Samsung flagship phone with the belief that they learned their lesson deserves what they are going to get and shouldn't complain anymore. If you haven't realized what their intent is, which is maximum profit with the least effort, while actually making it seem like they kind of care with PR rep's that promise things that they cant' actually commit to. INB4C
My friend asked me what phone he should buy, and looked at the Galaxy S2 and the Motorola Atrix. It was a no brainer which phone was the winner. Go Atrix! Pre-ordered and waiting! He was waiting for a nice dual core phone, but after the mess he has heard from me with Samsung, he said he definitely doesn't want to go through the same thing. To be honest, this crap is making me sick to my stomach just talking about anymore, cause we've all been crapped on, and it doesn't feel nice.
I'm not surprised in the least that Samsung would think that this meaningless gesture would diffuse this issue, but I'm honestly SHOCKED that "Xda leaders" would put any thought into this. I suspect they're making money off this, somehow.
This site has lost its way badly.
At least it's a start and shows Samsung at least recognizes they've pissed off some people. It's better than what they've been doing which has been a whole lot of nothing.
re: XDA profiting... maybe request some transparency on the issue??? Besides, I thought they were in bed with HTC, like Sprint...? (hehehehe )
Y'all getting played ... Pay attention.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
enlighten us on how were being played... I love a good conspiracy theory...
I HEARD... Samsung sent John to distract attention from the fact that they are currently in hostage negotiations with Sprint, the suitcase full of cash is in transit, and Noobnl has the code to unlock it, but he refuses to share it with anyone because he only cares about glory, so he is meeting John at sxsw to listen to crappy emo music and make the handoff. And THEN Sprint will begin work on adding SprintID and a new, improved, constant Nascar streaming app, which can in no way be turned off. Oh, and HTC assassins are waiting there to shoot Noob so that they can still claim that the EVO is the flagship phone, and artificially make supply of the phone backordered to give the impression to the common consumer that it is not a giant POS. Did I miss anything?
I've never owned a Samsung phone before the Epic. It is my first and MY LAST. HEAR ME SAMSUNG? YOU BLEW IT.
ungovernable1977 said:
enlighten us on how were being played... I love a good conspiracy theory...
I HEARD... Samsung sent John to distract attention from the fact that they are currently in hostage negotiations with Sprint, the suitcase full of cash is in transit, and Noobnl has the code to unlock it, but he refuses to share it with anyone because he only cares about glory, so he is meeting John at sxsw to listen to crappy emo music and make the handoff. And THEN Sprint will begin work on adding SprintID and a new, improved, constant Nascar streaming app, which can in no way be turned off. Oh, and HTC assassins are waiting there to shoot Noob so that they can still claim that the EVO is the flagship phone, and artificially make supply of the phone backordered to give the impression to the common consumer that it is not a giant POS. Did I miss anything?
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Careful....there's many a self-demonstrated poster in these forums that will actually, seriously, believe that too. *g*
Here's to hoping open exchange of dialogue will soon become exchange of sources and binaries!
Honestly, this was my first Samsung phone in about ten years is so far, it's my last.
It's not the lack of Froyo, this is just a simple annoyance. What killed it is GPS that works like crap, barely functioning accelorometer, retarded hardcoded GPS accuracy refusal to do anything about these two issues. I have a bad feeling that the last bug isn't a bug at all, but an attempt to cover up poorly functioning GPS on this phone. If I was Colbert, I'd wag my finger at them.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
and.... how does this help me???
DiGi760 said:
Do they sell the car docks now? I've seen them on Sammy's web page since launch, but I have been unable to find a single place where it is for sale.
And you do know that the Epic isn't "a year fukin old" yet, don't you? It was announced in June and launched at the end of August which makes it only 6 months old for consumers.
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2.2 - year old by now.
ungovernable1977 said:
enlighten us on how were being played... I love a good conspiracy theory...
I HEARD... Samsung sent John to distract attention from the fact that they are currently in hostage negotiations with Sprint, the suitcase full of cash is in transit, and Noobnl has the code to unlock it, but he refuses to share it with anyone because he only cares about glory, so he is meeting John at sxsw to listen to crappy emo music and make the handoff. And THEN Sprint will begin work on adding SprintID and a new, improved, constant Nascar streaming app, which can in no way be turned off. Oh, and HTC assassins are waiting there to shoot Noob so that they can still claim that the EVO is the flagship phone, and artificially make supply of the phone backordered to give the impression to the common consumer that it is not a giant POS. Did I miss anything?
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I will buy that for a dollar....LOL
Sent from DEEZ
Any Twitter/FB spammers reading??? Can you confirm this yourself... another conspiracy... oh my!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=955776
would be funny if it were true... and then SJ does a little dance 'hey! look over here!' hehehe...
im just finding this all funny at this point...
Hi I'm samsungjohn, just wanted to let you guys know that I'm just using this pr to gain rank within the amsung corporation. I figured if I was able to convince everyone to stick with samsung and to keep buying samsung, that I will be soon promoted. In reality I am jus doing this for a job. I don't even own a samsung phone. I own an LG, but thank you for listening to me and allowing me to pull your strings....Public Actions speak louder than words....oh and by the way. The Truth Is What You Make It, and Who You get To Believe In It.
No worries I'm just poking fun at this all. If people have gotten offended by it then the truth lies within the offended. Lol
now if Samsung were to really/officially be changing fo the people they would skip over froyo and be the first to update every galaxy s series to gingerbread. Or at least get froyo out and gingerbread soon after.
And powers at be, feel free to delete or modify this if you like. I've already gotten past the point of anger, and this whole samsung update bs is just a joke to me now. Samsung makes great dumb phones but a smart phone is just isn't worth it.
Too late, too slow, too little.
Samsung unfortunately is still working on the feature-phone timelines. What they (and most other android phone makers, with the possible exception of HTC) seem to not quite understand is that these smartphones are true computers now, and need to be treated as such. The OS is an integral part of phone, perhaps the most important part, and people will not tolerate a company that refuses to update an OS that both has critical bugs (and yes, the GPS bug is a CRITICAL bug), and appears incapable of utilizing the hardware it's surrounded by. It's like Microsoft refusing to repair a Windows bug that kept all printers only printing in black and white. It's almost worse that the hardware is so good, and is being crippled by a poorly customized OS (like tantalus, nearby but unreachable relief is far worse than no possibility of relief at all).
It's going to take a really big step to mollify those that have been burned by this generation of samsung's smartphones. Samsung, if your listening. You've pissed off many of your most important phone buyers. These are the people who less tech-savvy people ask for advice on phones, and for every 1 XDA member offended by your apparent lack of desire to properly support your equipment, you probably lose at least 10 referral sales to companies like HTC.
My recommendation, at least open the source code for the devs to look at, and if you're having software quality problems (and that's the reason you can't get froyo out the door), invite some of the best devs to take a look at the proprietary modules that you're having problems with. Work with the community and you may maintain some degree of support for your next generation of phones. But keep trying to astroturf them, or worse yet, pull a Behold 2 on them, and watch out as your current market lead could easily change next generation.
This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.
Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
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This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
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Click to collapse
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
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I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.
Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
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bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
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Click to collapse
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
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I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.
kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
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Except Motorola's bootloaders.
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
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It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
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If only someone was willing to risk their job
phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
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Click to collapse
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.
Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.
Not sure if it's just me, but I"ve noticed that when I use either Wifi Tether or some other similar app, or even usb tether, certain apps on my Droid X say they can't connect to the internet. A couple of these apps are TV Shows, Geo Coupons, and the weather feature in my Beautiful Widgets app. Most everything else seems to work fine, even Android Video and Weather Channel, but I don't want to have to reboot my phone every time I use Wifi Tether. Anyone have any ideas?
You are a brave man doing wifi tether on an unofficial leaked GB build after Moto and Verizon both came out saying they will be looking into users that do this illegally.
As for the problem, try doing a factory reset and see if that works? Remember this isn't official yet, bound to be bugs.
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
blubyu87gt said:
Please post... Well anything really.. That shows an official statement from either VzW or Motorola that actually backs up your statement on this.
Not trying to be a jerk but it is kinda beating a dead horse without any real proof... Reminds me of new year 2000 when everyone thought the world was going to end or all the computers were going to explode because of the dating system used.
Anyway, OP- That's a common problem with tethering on the GB leak. The only thing that still connects is the browser and even that's not 100%. Just toggle AP mode and it should be fine.
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There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
This is going to be a bit long winded so I appologize in advance...
Yes, of course I have seen the chicken little write up that everyone is acting like its the end of the world for root and everything android. Hence why I said offical. I know that Test guy got the boot but that hardly means p3 is taking his place.
Even he said take it with a grain of salt. Yes, he is a good dev and has had a couple good leaks but that hardly makes what he said infallible.
I am sure that this has been gone over by all the manufactures and carriers but WORSE case is they contact you (like att did with iPhone users) saying stop using or start paying. Then you either A) stop. OR B) Tell them to not put any random charges on your account and keep going.
Does everyone think that Verizon will actually start booting customers (at 50+ bucks a month arpu) or opening some crazy litagations against those who root-tether over a 20 dollar charge. The loss (heavily) out weighs gain so therefore its not viable for the company to do really any action above against its customers.
As far as the blocking said services on the software side. This is kinda normal... Why are people so shocked about what he said about blocking root... They (OEMs) have been doing this since the Eris so why is everyone so shocked now? And notice how through the software they made it so only free wifi tether was more difficult to obtain. All other aspects were left pretty far intact and it was rooted within a week. To me that says Verizon is not concerned with blocking, tracking, booting, or mafia style offing root users. That looks more like they want to make root possible while getting as much money as they can for services they offer.... Shocker....
bravo1234 said:
There is a good, two page written thread from p3droid on the mydroidworld forums on this issue. Again, never said its going on, but i trust p3droid.
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Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
cstrife999 said:
Not going through this again. He has yet to provide on shred of any kind of evidence I can claim that I am a lawyer and I'm suing you but that doesn't make it true. If there was any evidence at all I would put some faith into it. He lied.... end.
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I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
Jmoney47 said:
I completely understand where you are coming from and somewhat support your opinion myself. The only problem I have about not believing it is why would he lie? What does he have to gain from lying about it? He already has posted several important leaks and rooted and deodexed both gingerbread leaks. He is a well known and respected person in this community. What could he possibly gain from posting that? And why would he say not to tether if he was the one who made the patch?
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I've seen others state this, not my original thought. But it does make sense:
This is mostly about tethering. 'Theft of service'. p3Droid sells an app on the marketplace that enables you to bypass VZW's pay-app (3g Hotspot Patch). While simply rooting and using a variety of tethering apps is possible, this one avenue is a more direct attack on vzw's revenue stream.
If VZW is going take any action, legally, its likely going to go at him first. He's "profiting" from the action.
Most likely he's realized (maybe officially from VZW?) that he's a legal target and is trying to mitigate the damage?