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Hey
First of i would like to say that i have been reading on xda since the old winmo days where i rooted and customized my phones. Now it is my time to write my first post here, which i have close to doing many times, im from Denmark by the way.
Not long ago i sold my beloved Htc hd2, which i had running Android, and i bought the Nokia N8 due since i am heavy on the music and photos. My plan was to get a 7 inch tablet with android for the rest of my needs, which the N8 could not for fill, and even though i had read some places that the tab was slower than one would expect i got myself a used one ( like new) for about half the retail prize.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
It is not slow in generel use, its proberly about what a galaxy s with stock would be, but in things such as the web browser, which should be essensial for a tablet, the galaxy tab really sucks, it is so bad that my nokia n8 with opera mobile nearly handles the web better, and thats really saying something! I tryed about all browsers in the android markedplace and ofcourse one can find a much better one than the stock ( of course you have to turn flash off, even through i think it is a shame)
I ended up using Opera Mobile since it is by far the fastest, it seems to me through that its not running the native res of the tab, could i be right?, is it true that some apps will show fullscreen without being the full res of the tab? i looked allover the web for days trying to get a grip of things without luck, really hope to get some answers
Now what would love to learn some more about would be the future prospects of the Galaxy tab, Is it in the hands of many developers?, will we see custom roms? (since i am not much for stock and touchwizz). Can we expect the Tab to be get much faster, should it not have the same or similar performances as the Nexus S or Galaxy S?
A final thing that i was wondering was about the res of the tabs screen. Is that whats coursing the troubles, the lagg? is that what makes it slow someplaces and makes the webbrowser work like a windows mobile 6.5 stock browser (or worse )
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
Well thats it for me, really hope to get some answers since i know this is the best place to ask this sort of questions!
i'm on JM6 and somehow i still dont get what people say about silkky or buttery smooth >.<
mine is kinda laggy (still), and the stock browser gets laggy too when get scrolled up or down, i'm going back to miren browser
i do love putting widget though in my screen, but when i see homescreen post, some of them got a lot of widget too
wonder what's wrong with mine
already using launcher pro, better in term of scrolling than touchwiz with lots of pages (App Drawer)
but scrolling screen still gives me lag
quoting everybody else, after tegra 2 maybe there will be a tegra 3 or whatsoever so if you wait and wait, you'll wait for the rest of your life
i'm jumping on the wagon here, and i'm pretty satisfied actually, but since this is my 1st android phone, i have nothing to compare
gingerbread is definitely come to us , so i dont really care if the requirements need tegra 2
if my tab can handle it, so rock on, if it cant, then just wait for another device capable of gingerbread and sell this one
but since nexus S is using the same 1ghz and using gingerbread also, i dont think tegra 2 is necessary for it
maybe for honeycomb, we'll never know
keep crossing ur finger ^^
Thanks for your quick response. I hope your right with the requirements since it really makes sense that the nexus s would be apple to opgrade.
To me miren Browser is very laggy i really want to use it just don't run smoothly. Thinking about trying flashing one of the roms out there maybe I should wait for a official.
It's not the processor, it's the OS! and Gingerbread aint gonna fix it because it aint designed for tablets. Honeycombe is 'supposed' to be designed for use with tablets so you'll have to wait until 3Q 2011.
I don't know why people are surprised when they realise this as 'sticky', 'laggy', 'freezing' were words all mentioned in every review i've ever read about the tab.
Unless of course you only read Samsungs own review which would be slightly bias.
simon2901 said:
[...]
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
[...]
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Click to collapse
I once had a Toshiba Folio 100 with a Tegra 2 processor (for 5 days ) and it was just as fast/slow as the Tab. Don't know if Gingerbread is going to make the nvidea processor perform a lot better. As far as I know it is a driver thing.
Except for the browser, I think the Tab is fast enough for me.
This performance thing is relative. For example simon2901 you said htc hd2 has better android performance. I have both tab and hd2 now, nearly tried every android build for hd2 but cant find anything that has the performance that makes me feel really usable. But you think the opposite and this shows how relative this thing can be.
I flashed my tab to jm6 as Justin^Tan and i am agree with him. People say it is silky or very smooth but i all can say is it is smoother then my stock rom. Another proof of how this can be relative.
And i agree with appleflap except browser tab is enough for me too. Browser is enough in most cases for me too but when i browse a fully loaded page with flash it really is a pain.
As from the Gingerbread i only expect is make power drain of some apps more reasonable.
It's the OS... I come from an OS for which bloggers like to make fun (WM 6.5.5), however the custom ROMs for my TP2 were in the end quite fast. And I feel like I had more functionalities
This has nothing to do with Samsung's hardware. The Hummingbird is actually as (more) powerful as what you find in the iPad (And we have more memory with our Tab)
If I were you I would not expect too much from Gingerbread. Doesn't look like much more than a minor upgrade with a few tweaks. Quite different from the move from 2.1 to 2.2 let's put our hope sin Honeycombs...
It's kind of normal, it's a young OS and to be honest it's impressive to see the work that has been accomplished since the first versions of android. Given its quick growth we can hope to see more and more good apps and hopefully improved support for custom ROMs. That said teh Tab doesnt seem so popular among modders and chefs (maybe because of the price ? Or just because Clockwork seems more difficult to develop ?) so I ma not sure we can hope that much for the future for us
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
simon2901 said:
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
JM6 is a Euro firmware that's been posted in the dev section here. I'm not sure it improves performance compared to stock, but then I flashed this pretty much the same day as I got the Tab so can't really compare . I believe it has some performance improvements with the stock browser, but I prefer Miren anyway. I really don't see any lagging with Miren, or at least none that I can't attribute to poor wifi connections etc. It's certainly way slicker than the stock browser. The pinch to zoom font rendering on stock is appalling whereas on Miren it preserves quality. Not tried Opera on the Tab though I hear it's fast...
Have you tried using a different launcher than stock Touchwiz? Launcher Pro or ADW should both give you improvements in performance.
That so many people's first experiences with it are probably as a demo unit, I can see why they say it doesn't feel as smooth as an iPad.
Aye, you can swap launchers and tweak settings.
But most stores have them running loaded up with widgets, running some livewallpaper, and touchwiz. It IS jerky. Or rather, not as smooth as the iPad.
Ok, so the job still gets done, and as a techy myself, I'm happy with what's doable, but that perception amongst most users is that it's not as smooth as it could be seems to be an obvious win if they can sort it out.
Even on the Tab, bringing the Notifiction bar down; sure it's fast enough, but it doesn't animate as it scrolls down (though if it did, personally I'd want an option to turn that off so it insta dropped!).
That all the hardware coming out now has pretty decent openGL support now, I can see that'll be the main thing in future UI improvements, moving more of it to hardware acceleration. I get a feeling that it's all being done in software.
It can only get better from here. A bit of polish on the first thing most users will see will be hugely beneficial later.
I find almost all of the above judgements entirely false. The OS workd perfectlyt for me without any lag or any kind of lag fixes. Im on JK5.
All it takes is a few shrewd decisions on the software that you use with the OS. My browser doesnt lag - I use the Fennec nighly builds which are silky smooth with opengl rendering and without.
I have removed bloatware and services that clog up the purity of googles stock 2.2.
I do use a task manager to kill certain services on a selewctive basis.
I get 2 days light use out of it, which is just fine!
And there is never any lag anywhere.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
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This is acceptable.
There, I said it. I find it to be perfectly smooth, not sure why you're having a problem with it.
Use DolphinHD as the browser as it offers far more functionality than the default, and use ADW or LauncherPro as the homescreen as they both offer more functionality and better performance than the default.
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
I always purchase hardware with what CAN be done with it in mind, not what MIGHT be done to it in the future. Hoping for upgrades is a waste of energy, if you don't like the hardware in its initial state, or a state that you can transform it to straight away (rooting it, flashing already available ROMs etc) then don't purchase it, simple as that.
knightnz said:
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
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Click to collapse
Well, by the time the Galaxy Tab 2 comes out, I would think Samsung would stop officially selling the Galaxy Tab 1 so it wouldn't matter if the Tab1 had Honeycomb or not. Its' not like it would be cutting into Galaxy Tab 2 sales.
well im glad some have good experiences with the web and smoothness of the device, i think i forgot to say that i am currenty on stock rom as i bought it, i read that there is some good performance improvements in the leaked firmware updates, still i would wait rooting, doing all that stuff untill things settle down a bit, it all seems confusing to me atm ( maybe it just is more complicated compared to winmo, htc hd2).
Well reading about the newer firmware out there got me in a better mood, knowing that samsung knows that things are not right yet is very comforting, i mean, i would assume all tabs sold in Denmark have the same firmware as mine, and that means bad performance compared to even the galaxy s, that is not acceptable, not at all.
Saying that this is a phone os and so on and therefore things dont run as expected. is neither acceptable since it should not run worse on a bigger device, i mean android do not discriminate? I am not looking for Ipad performance, since i got one in the household, and i still prefer using the tab, even though browsing is better on Safari (Flash dont work properly atm, rather just use the new youtubeclient, which i enjoy except the quality should be higher( proberly will be in time)
It is great to read your comments, gotta love xda
even if they stop selling galaxy tab 1, if they did release honeycomb into tab 1, people would hold onto their tab 1 if there's no significant upgrade on hardware
but if they dare only giving honeycomb onto tab 2, some people would definitely jump onto tab 2 for sure
It is never ending search for perfection that does not exist.
Something will come tomorrow with better CPU/GPU/screen.....
My experience is good enough. I turned of animation - major cause of lags, left one widget. Everything works just fine for my taste.
Hmm well is that fine Having to turn of animations and not use widgets? i just hope we will see custom roms with newer versions. What firmware v. are you using?
I'm really thinking about trying newer builds
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
I still don't get the "lag"that everyone is noticing.I'm using dolphin HD and it's perfectly smooth for me. I did root and lagfix, not sure if that is the difference.
paulshields said:
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool good to know about the perf improvement
Sad to see the ipad is still "the" reference
enough time passed to see comparisons with some roms, kernels and the stock android itself.
(this is all compared to the nexus one by the way)
i cant help but find myself trying to find reasons to enjoy this phone, more than my previous pure google phone.
between the irony of this having everything first and yet not having the updated market....the whole idea that stuff is not yet 'ready' or 'recoded' for gingerbread and that whole GPU isn't optimized for better browsing....to the complete lack of browser modes (about:debug to get desktop! are u kidding me)
ive thoughouly tested all roms, and its early, obviously but all have glitches. CM can never re-up its 3g or any connection at times after being in a nozone area. modaco has a few random ones and dropped it all together. crackflashers mods are a disaster when you go deeper in the late 30's to 40's. trinity kernels gets crazy too, and dont you dare mix that with all the other aformentioned. oh and the stock has constant random reboots...as does all these roms and kernels.
thank the lord for rommanager and titanium back up. i never appreciated it as much after having such a wierd phone.
hate me all you want, go as far to say that im *****ing. all im saying is that im heavily testing the phone. and comparing it to a year old phone..nexus one is starting to really look better even with a worse screen.
all in due time i guess. heres hoping that patches ALL around come..im talking google patches. samsung patches and then dev patches.
So far the only significant complaint I have after two weeks that is actually about the Nexus S and not some app I have on it is the ringtone problem. Admittedly annoying, but hardly a snafu.
The browser lag/lack of optimization and home screen issues are pretty big problems, if you ask me. It's quite obvious this phone was a little rushed. Hopefully Google fixes this all sooner rather than later.
zorak950 said:
So far the only significant complaint I have after two weeks that is actually about the Nexus S and not some app I have on it is the ringtone problem. Admittedly annoying, but hardly a snafu.
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Click to collapse
well again, you seem to have A problem. but this browser/gingebread compatibility really does sting.
i absolutely love the phone
even with all its flaws
just wishing for more space
AllGamer said:
i absolutely love the phone
even with all its flaws
just wishing for more space
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Click to collapse
+1. Love the phone coming from the Nexus One.
I have had my Nexus S since the 19th of Dec. I have never had a random reboot, random ringtone issue or any significant issue. I don't really notice the browser lag.
I have given up on finding the perfect phone for me. They all have their issues. In the past year, I have owned the Iphone 3g, Nexus One(My favorite of all), HTC G2, HTC HD7, and the Samsung Vibrant. They all have quirks. I have given up hope that I will ever have a phone that does everything I would like. For now, the Nexus S is a good phone for me.
I am not that excited about the upcoming dual-core phones, i don't think battery tech is ready yet.
The browser lag is annoying, but I only really get it bad on pages with Flash elements. That indicates to me it has at least something to do with Adobe's plugin.
zorak950 said:
The browser lag is annoying, but I only really get it bad on pages with Flash elements. That indicates to me it has at least something to do with Adobe's plugin.
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Click to collapse
Even though most of us set the Adobe plugins to on-demand? I've noticed the lag on all pages that have a lot of graphics. Heck, with pages that don't have a lot of graphics, there's a little stutter when double-tapping to zoom in/out.
I'm not in denial at all.
I hate my Nexus One in many ways, much more so than any gripes I have with the Galaxy S or Nexus S (I own and use all three actively, still).
My N1 had plenty of big issues, none of which were ever fixed via software:
1) the capacitive buttons' touch zone are offset by at least 50% to painted location
2) the touchscreen frequently goes wonky and was never particularly accurate in registering touches (very difficult to type)
3) the screen is so oversaturated in red hues that watching video podcasts is like watching people with bad sunburns
4) the camera has a big pink blur in the middle of every picture
5) the thing was unusable in sunlight.
The N1 had some nice features, like the trackball, and a nice look and feel in the hand, but it is far from the Holy Grail of phones people not satisfied with their N1 try to make it out to be.
My SGS and NS have quirks, but they're software. The SGS was not usable after a couple of days due to lag, but some custom roms fixed that. The touchscreen is dead-on accurate and has more multi-touch points than the N1. The SAMOLED doesn't have a red or pinkish cast to it, and it looks great, even outdoors. The hardware feels a bit light and creaky after 6 months, but I have disassembled it several times to try hardware mods, and I may be responsible for the creak around the bezel.
The Nexus S is solidly built, feels better in the hand than either the NS or SGS, looks much sexier than both, has a great screen in both touch accuracy and appearance. It's not perfect, but it's a damn good phone. The software bugs will be worked out in relatively short time, either by google or through a custom rom.
I don't hate you for posting this, but what's the point? You're not happy with the phone and you still love the N1. Take the NS back and end your misery...
If you trying to get rid of it, do it soon, this phone's resale value won't hold up like the N1 did. Just sold 2 NS brand new in box and the price fetched is well a fair price but nowhere close the retail price.
zorak950 said:
The browser lag is annoying, but I only really get it bad on pages with Flash elements. That indicates to me it has at least something to do with Adobe's plugin.
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Click to collapse
you know, i keep reading about this browser lag many of you have reported
but i've not seen it at all when i browse the web with any of the browsers installed
i've all of them installed
each one has its pros and cons
but none of them lags, so i'm not really sure why people are complaining about it
I have also had this device a day after release and I have not had any problems with it. Granted it's not perfect but I love this phone and wouldn't trade it until the next nexus comes out
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
greenstuffs said:
If you trying to get rid of it, do it soon, this phone's resale value won't hold up like the N1 did. Just sold 2 NS brand new in box and the price fetched is well a fair price but nowhere close the retail price.
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Click to collapse
it depends in which country you are selling it from/to
in Canada it goes out for a lot more than retail
I have had a SNS for 48 hours now, coming from an xperia x10i, so here is my thoughts for what they are worth. The nexus seems to me a solid handset, no frills and business like. The browser is a bit choppy, but aside from that I have found no issues. The xperia showed me the joys of root and roms...I took it as far as it could be thanks to its locked bootloader (MASSIVE respect to the XDA dev teams and people). The xperia went from a rather poor device through to a fast and impressive device (by XDA magic.) and I got the Nexus because from what I have read, it will be brilliantly customisable. I rooted and got recovery right out of the box, and wait in anticipation to lots of great ROM's.
I could of gone for a Desire HD which is a more flash and complete device....but it was Nexus all the way for me. Lets wait a few months and see how SNS is before jumping over to dual core 'next best things'
I wouldn't go so far as to say people are in denial. I believe people when they say they love their Nexus S. I really like it too, but I do think people are fooling themselves regarding the value of the Nexus line in general. We're imagining a large disparity between stock Android and manufactured OEMs that simply isn't true, or more specifically, simply not as true as we want it to be. Stock Android has not liberated us from the issues which we shun OEM skins for, and in fact, have created a slew of new glitches (some of which are arguably worse: rebooting phone calls, for example). The things we complain most about of OEM skins still exist to some degree in stock Android. Likewise, Bloatware is blown way out of proportion. Yes, they are unwanted, but do they really do so much harm? The answer no one wants to admit to is no.
Considering developers will more likely than not port over any and every new Android iteration to future phones, sometimes with improvements, and considering there are only 2 major updates from Google in a year's time anyway, I'm beginning to reevaluate the value of the Nexus line.
Of course, everyone will have different preferences. My past experiences with Android have always had OEM skins, and I was possibly making excuses to keep liking something from Google. Now that I'm using stock and there are no more excuses, I'm not sure if I can safely say Android is for me, even though I really want it to be.
I think the op should move on sell the phone and invest in a handset that really suit his needs. All I seen in his posts on other threads have been negative towards the handset.
You done all the testing that has been done. So why continue to lament..
Do yourself a favour sell it whilst you can recoup the cost. Get something you really want..
I like my NS. I know the phone has problems. My personal experience has been a positive one. Yes the handset has flaws but I can get round them. It suits what I want it to use it for.
That's it.
onthecouchagain said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say people are in denial. I believe people when they say they love their Nexus S. I really like it too, but I do think people are fooling themselves regarding the value of the Nexus line in general.
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Click to collapse
The value of the Nexus line is easy to root with no effort from the manufacturer to stop you, and supposedly first in line for OS updates.
Nexus One owners might argue that they we'ren't first in line for 2.3 - but they got 2.2 months before anyone else, and they might be next in line for 2.3.
The "pure" Google experience is a myth in my opinion, at least the "I got the phone for the pure Google experience" comments are. An awful lot of people already flashing or chomping at the bit to flash custom roms.
All that other stuff you posted is just your expectations, not everyone else's.
dragon546 said:
I think the op should move on sell the phone and invest in a handset that really suit his needs. All I seen in his posts on other threads have been negative towards the handset.
You done all the testing that has been done. So why continue to lament..
Do yourself a favour sell it whilst you can recoup the cost. Get something you really want..
I like my NS it does what I want it for. I am under no illusion this is the phone that everyone wants. My personal experience has been a positive one. Yes the handset has flaws but I can get round them. It suits what I want it to use it for.
That's it.
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Click to collapse
Your very right. Its not perfect yet, its not the one with the biggest screen, best camera, most memory etc etc.....I knew that when I brought it, but its a damn cool device! Look at my xperia....1.6 android and laggy but.....With XDA I made it a beast lol And I believe the Nexus will grow into a real beast!!
distortedloop said:
The value of the Nexus line is easy to root with no effort from the manufacturer to stop you, and supposedly first in line for OS updates.
Nexus One owners might argue that they we'ren't first in line for 2.3 - but they got 2.2 months before anyone else, and they might be next in line for 2.3.
The "pure" Google experience is a myth in my opinion, at least the "I got the phone for the pure Google experience" comments are. An awful lot of people already flashing or chomping at the bit to flash custom roms.
All that other stuff you posted is just your expectations, not everyone else's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points, but to say the rest of what I wrote are expectations exclusive to me is clearly wrong. It's been ceaselessly reverberated at this forum that the Nexus line is all about a clean Google experience, free of OEM skins which hamper the phone, and free of career bloatware. Some have gone as far to call not having a logo on the front of the phone alone worth it.
Again, not trying to take away people's happiness with the NS; everyone will have different preferences, but what I wrote is not exclusive to me.
I enjoyed reading this:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/30/coming-nexus-s/
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App
That's kind of how I feel as well after "upgrading" from an Epic 4g... I really wish something out there seemed better than the nexus, a 5 month old phone, release 5 months late on sprint, when in reality it's a year old hardware that launched on the Galaxy S last May...
I really sincerely agree with the blog and wish that a decent phone has come out since then, but all this bull**** with modified android, flaky hardware, and poor support really has me turned off from every phone except for the Nexus series.... When my contract with Sprint is up I'm likely going to be moving to the carrier with the newest Nexus, not with the best 4g coverage, fastest speeds, or newest phone.... but the one with the most reliable.
I just noticed that was posted by Chris Ziegler. I'd imagine that's the same one from Engadget, in which I find it to be very interesting that someone with so much exposure to new technology feels that way.
I agree with the article it's just makes more sense to release a product that works instead of a product that has everything but doesn't work...
This was my first smartphone. Yes, I could've waited a month and got another, and in terms of theoretical performance, better.
But I can't say I regret myself one bit, it's truly an amazing phone and all complaints I had in the beginning has been solved by the amazing devs here on XDA
I'll probably keel this phone for a long while!
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App
Thanks for the link, phillevy. This article perfectly describes the current situation on the android handset market.
Before I chose the Nexus S, I had ordered 2 HTC Desire S which I sent back because of their crappy build quality (Google brings up lots of threads about this topic). I certainly prefer the looks of the Desire S over the Nexus S, but if you buy a high-end android smartphone you also expect high end build quality. If you buy a cheap (but still very good) ZTE Blade, you can live with wobbly switches and some other flaws in build quality.
Before choosing the Nexus S, I also considered the Galaxy S2. But Samsung's lame update policy and a barely noticeable added value of the dual core processor (besides some games) made me chose the Nexus S which brought up an update notification to 2.3.4 instantly after connecting to my WLAN router.
Bottomline: I'm very satisfied with my unbranded, factory-simlock-free Nexus S. There are certainly some handsets out there which outperform the Nexus S in terms of some features, but not if you have a look at the whole package.
it just feels good knowing i'm not getting crazy, cause i moved from my old htc desire hd for the same reason. Nexus S is not the best in all functionality, but makes everything pretty much well.
DHD makes HD videos and has 8mp cam, but it can focus with that, i can only take photos from static things.
DHD has a huge screen, but somehow its lcd screen is pretty lame, with washed colors (i have a sclcd nexus, but it get a way way better screen).
DHD has dolby-s and srs, but that speaker is awful, you can make it better with several tweaks, but...
to make a long story short, despite all devices with amazing specs arriving out there, i can't see a single one that lets me a little excited... i guess i'm stuck with nexus series!
Yep I agree totally coming from a higher spec G2x. In the end the specs are important but they are not everything. Especially if the experience is degraded by bugs (G2x) or skins (anything Moto). So you get a high spec phone and keep flashing nightly ROMs until you get one that works perfectly. That's quite a waiting game to play, especially if you can just get a Nexus that works perfectly out of the box . I view custom ROMs as something that can *add* to the experience and improve the phone in many ways, but they shouldn't be *necessary* to have a working bug-free, lag-free phone. Nexus FTW.
The Nexus series is the closest you can get to "future-proof" in the smartphone world. That is what made me upgrade from the Epic. Knowing that I will get pretty much every Android update in the foreseeable future (barring any new major hardware requirements implemented by Google...which I don't see happening anytime soon).
Its nice being free from the confines of Touchwiz or MotoBlur. My Nexy is truly MY phone. I can do whatever I want with it. Its a true Android experience.
Having the latest software and the peace of mind that I won't be left in the dust is better than having slightly better hardware in my opinion. The Nexus S 4G can still hold its own. The Hummingbird is still a very high end chip.
mapin0518 said:
Yep I agree totally coming from a higher spec G2x. In the end the specs are important but they are not everything. Especially if the experience is degraded by bugs (G2x) or skins (anything Moto). So you get a high spec phone and keep flashing nightly ROMs until you get one that works perfectly. That's quite a waiting game to play, especially if you can just get a Nexus that works perfectly out of the box . I view custom ROMs as something that can *add* to the experience and improve the phone in many ways, but they shouldn't be *necessary* to have a working bug-free, lag-free phone. Nexus FTW.
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+1
I just came over from the G2x as well. I went through 3 of 'em, and thought my 3rd was a winner, but that one went all wonky on me too. Supposedly gonna get an update to GB and to fix the "issues" that plague it, but I'm not convinced that a software patch and GB update is gonna fix what's wrong with the G2x.
To be honest, the NS is just a better phone for how I use a phone and I probably should have gotten it in the first place.
Yup, great phone, but needs hardware acceleration asap. Browsing experience, at least compared to my old phone HTC Desire, is hilarious. It lags at rendering flash content or big pictures and scrolling through them is not smooth at all. Another thing that is bugging me is that from the 512mb RAM, 200 is used for the GPU alone, so we're left with 300mb for the system and apps, which is very low. I often find myself left with 30-50mb free RAM and when I open some demanding apps (games for example), it lags until android kills some processes by itself, lags horridly. So I finally got to the point where I need the advanced task killer app.
I am actually surprised that people coming from the Desire HD or Inspire didn't mention anything about this :|
I was on my 4th G2x and I'm done with that phone. Reboots, freezing, can't hold a data connection or Wi-Fi. I was gonna go with a myTouch 4G but decided to go back to the Nexus S. Always loved it and it does me fine.
scmurphy13 said:
I was on my 4th G2x and I'm done with that phone. Reboots, freezing, can't hold a data connection or Wi-Fi. I was gonna go with a myTouch 4G but decided to go back to the Nexus S. Always loved it and it does me fine.
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Yup, glad to see there are quite a few of us that left the G2x for the NS. That phone was nothing but a headache for me (reboots and shutdowns on stock systems with no additional apps installed). I went through 2 of them and ran out of patience (plus I was on day 29 out of 30 of my remorse period so I needed to make a decision!).
I hope Google doesn't go with LG for their Nexus 3. LG has left a very bitter taste in my mouth.
mapin0518 said:
I hope Google doesn't go with LG for their Nexus 3. LG has left a very bitter taste in my mouth.
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That's what she said!
In all seriousness, I hope not either. The only thing I've ever purchased from LG that was worth a damn has been a washer and dryer.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App
lvnatic said:
I am actually surprised that people coming from the Desire HD or Inspire didn't mention anything about this :|
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you are right, browser experience with dhd is really better, but to be honest, i was so pissed with update delay and annoying bugs that i was in cm7 for daily use!
I have come over from the G2X as well. On my second, I would get data drops like crazy.
But, I have not had a single drop since getting my Nexus S. I love this phone, and Ill probably keep until until the next Nexus phone releases
I upgraded from the Nexus S to the G2x four days before it was released. I used the G2x as my only phone for a bit over a month. Ended up selling it and coming back to the Nexus S. I did not experience any of the reboots, connection problems, or severe screen bleed that others are reporting. I simply prefer the Nexus S. That's means a lot coming from me...I'm the kind of person that upgrades phones around three times a year so I can always have the latest and greatest. I came back for four main reasons.
1) Overall smoother experience both hardware and software wise. Software felt smoother, touchscreen more responsive, and I prefer the feel of the haptic feedback.
2) Updates from Google rather than TMo. No-brainer.
3) Dramatically better battery life. No comparison at all, Nexus S blows away G2x. The NS is the only Android phone I've owned that I didn't need to carry a spare battery around for.
4) Form factor....this was the biggest reason. I'm on my phone for many hours per day. Even after a month I still disliked the feel of the G2x. I just didn't like holding it. It feels like a brick. Coming back to the NS was like a breath of fresh air, even with it's clearly inferior specs and pixelated pentile matrix. People complain of a cheap build quality, but I actually really like it. Sure it's plastic but it doesn't feel flimsy. And it's a pleasure to use. Even the way it flips around when picking it up from the base, the positioning of the power button, the curved screen. I just really like the phone. Keep your 1080p recording, HDMI out, and "Tegra Zone" (to name a few, list goes on and on). I'll keep my Nexus S.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
mhaedo said:
***
2) Updates from Google rather than TMo. No-brainer.
***
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As G2x owners are now experiencing. The phone should have had tasty gingerbread from day 1, but didn't. T-Mo said the wait for GB wouldn't be long, but it's already been 6 or 7 weeks. Now T-Mo says "by summer", whatever that means. In theory that means by June 21.
I do miss the idea of the raw power of the G2x, but I don't miss the G2x. Perhaps the next nexus device will figure out how to utilize a multi-core processor. If so, I'll leave the NS for it.
I've had the SGSII for about a week now after moving from a Nexus One running CM7, and wow I am impressed.
I know that in the grand scheme of things it's an incremental upgrade - the main reason I left it a while to move - however the SGII has in my view made a significant leap.
The main thing is that the UI is now as smooth and as refined as the iOS devices. I don't know what Samsung did that nobody else in the Android market has managed, but they've finally managed to make things as smooth as the iPhone.
I finally get that delicious feeling of having the UI elements "stick" to my finger as I move them around, rather than chase behind.
While we all know this is a superficial thing and adds little to the actual functionality, I believe this has finally closed the gap in terms of delight in using the device. I hate to use the sickening Apple term, but surely the average user will find just as much "magic" in using the SGSII as any iOS device.
Web browsing is now super smooth (hardware accelerated?) as are the home screens. Going back to my N1 I really feel the difference.
The SGSII is even more buttery smooth than my Asus Transformer running honeycomb.
Hopefully whatever Samsung have done, whether it be related to the chips in the phone or software tweaks, will be copied by all Android devices, and we can put the nagging sense of UI inferiority behind us (and I know the lack of smoothness bugged you no matter how hard you denied it).
Let's hope Android has put stuttering and lagging behind it forever. Well done Samsung.
P.S.
I haven't used the HTC Sensation so I don't know if they too have achieved this, but this is based on my observations of the hardware at my disposal.
About the same as my view of the phone thats why i find it hard to understand the this is a crap phone posts can i have sense on it is their an IOS4 rom for it etc . A if i thought the phone was crap i would have returned it B if i wanted sense i would have bought sense phone .
But yes with Android customers have choice across a broad range of phones and that is why its winning the sales drive .
Looking forward to more Android improvements as this is only really year two of development .
jje
Dont get your point.
I find the IP4 laggy compared to the SGS2 . The i9100 is by far smoother in my opinion
I haven't used or seen a better smartphone. My sgs2 is borderline biblical!
austinchimp said:
The main thing is that the UI is now as smooth and as refined as the iOS devices. I don't know what Samsung did that nobody else in the Android market has managed, but they've finally managed to make things as smooth as the iPhone.
I finally get that delicious feeling of having the UI elements "stick" to my finger as I move them around, rather than chase behind.
While we all know this is a superficial thing and adds little to the actual functionality, I believe this has finally closed the gap in terms of delight in using the device. I hate to use the sickening Apple term, but surely the average user will find just as much "magic" in using the SGSII as any iOS device.
Web browsing is now super smooth (hardware accelerated?) as are the home screens. Going back to my N1 I really feel the difference.
The SGSII is even more buttery smooth than my Asus Transformer running honeycomb.
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u could not have said it any better
what u explained is the MAIN reason i bought this phone
there is no " lag " its just wonderful
what would make this phone perfect is a ROM based of AOSP
which im still waiting for team hacksung to finish its version of CM7
austinchimp said:
The main thing is that the UI is now as smooth and as refined as the iOS devices. I don't know what Samsung did that nobody else in the Android market has managed, but they've finally managed to make things as smooth as the iPhone.
Web browsing is now super smooth (hardware accelerated?) as are the home screens. Going back to my N1 I really feel the difference.
The SGSII is even more buttery smooth than my Asus Transformer running honeycomb.
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Click to collapse
samsung has hardware accelerated many parts of the UI. the web browser for example is hardware accelerated, as well as a few other places.
this is why i blast google. they should have been using hardware acceleration from day 1 to give the same smooth UI experience as the iphone. the SGS2 is not doing anything special, its not the dual core making it so smooth. its simply because samsung took the time to optimize the SGS2 with graphics chip, rather than putting the burden on the CPU 100% of the time.
the nexus one would be just as smooth. look at WP7 devices. they all use the same hardware as the n1, but use hardware acceleration and proper drivers, and are the smoothest devices in the world right now.
Well that was my point - How come it's taken so long, and a few generations of Android devices for this to be done? I honestly didn't think it was possible for an Android 2.3 device to be so smooth, I thought there was something fundamental in the architecture that was going to always mean a little lag.
I'd given up any of this generation of Android phones achieving true smooth motion, and here Samsung have done it without this development even being publicised that much.
I totally agree Android should have been like this - it just blows my mind that it's taken so long, and I can see no excuse for any top tier device from any other manufacturer not to match what Samsung have done.
Also, if it is just a case of tuning the software, why haven't/didn't Samsung do it with the SGS I ?
The "this is a crap phone" posts probably mostly come from people who don't own this. ...I know that might sound a little odd but trust me, even in Android communities there are fan-boys, and some actually go that far...
yup. time to throw my htc legend. i play the pinball game. the ball look like teleporting...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
I went from a Nexus One to an iPhone 4, and then to this amazing device. All I have to say is that its been the best experience yet. I actually had lag on my iPhone 4... And very little to none on the SG2. I agree that most people bashing this phone probably don't even own one. I'll definitely be buying an SGS3. Goodbye HTC and to their ****ty voice/speaker quality and locked bootloaders. And hello Samsung.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Its hard to understand why people love this device soo much unless you actually ownit. This phone seems to give the feeling that android should have been this fluid from the beginning. There is no device (including the sensation) that operates as smoothly as the sgs2. I love this phone.
gstar_raw said:
I went from a Nexus One to an iPhone 4, and then to this amazing device. All I have to say is that its been the best experience yet. I actually had lag on my iPhone 4... And very little to none on the SG2. I agree that most people bashing this phone probably don't even own one. I'll definitely be buying an SGS3. Goodbye HTC and to their ****ty voice/speaker quality and locked bootloaders. And hello Samsung.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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GS3! Wow...the rumours, are TOO GOOD. Anything Apple pull out of the bag, even next year would simple pale in comparison to the GS3.
Posts like these makes me anxious to get mine. Still waiting on UPS!
If Samsung did some hardware/driver acceleration magic, I wonder if CM7 and the other AOSP ROM project will be able to take advantage of this as well. I don't want the stock ROM to be the only super smooth and slick ROM available.
austinchimp said:
Well that was my point - How come it's taken so long, and a few generations of Android devices for this to be done? I honestly didn't think it was possible for an Android 2.3 device to be so smooth, I thought there was something fundamental in the architecture that was going to always mean a little lag.
I'd given up any of this generation of Android phones achieving true smooth motion, and here Samsung have done it without this development even being publicised that much.
I totally agree Android should have been like this - it just blows my mind that it's taken so long, and I can see no excuse for any top tier device from any other manufacturer not to match what Samsung have done.
Also, if it is just a case of tuning the software, why haven't/didn't Samsung do it with the SGS I ?
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it hasnt taken too long. the original galaxy s also had hardware acceleration in the browser for example. only the international version, but it was lightening fast and smooth as butter. it only is because samsung took the initiative and did a custom job. google certainly hasnt implemented it yet, and in ice cream sandwich they claim it will come.
i'm right there with you, manufacturers should have been pushing for a UI experience that matches apple's.
since the op is sharing thoughts about the device, i'll share mine too. i FINALLY received it in the mail today. opened the box, the device is bigger than it looks in the online review (coming from a nexus s 4g). the thin factor is impressive, but not as impressive as i was expecting. the smoothness is there as expected, but the "S" boot image is freakishly laggy--no big deal.
camera-really good
screen-what can i say? super amoled plus looks great,
hardware finish/quality-pretty good...but i prefer the smooth back over the textured back--no big deal
touchwiz 4.0-hmm, this is tough, i need to play with it some more. samsung obviously put a lot to this UI, but so far it doesnt seem as refined as other skins...for example, the default lock screen is kind of laggy, and is a pain sometimes to fully move the lockscreen so that it unlocks. numerical battery percentage would be nice without having to go into settings...other than these minor gripes, i love the touchwiz widgets.
obviously samsung has really tried to outdo itself and competitors, and the sgs II is perhaps the best android phone out there. but as of right now, it doesn't really give me that "wow" factor despite all its features. but i've only had it for one day and haven't gotten to test out the dual core, dlna, and other features.
In conclusion: Amazing. The work Turl, Jokersax, etc have done here is amazing.
Why do I say this? I just got a One X. And it feels slower than my Atrix
Thanks guys, and I hope it will go on being appreciated by my girlfriend (if I can pry her away from the world of physical keyboards - can't keep using a Desire Z forever!)
Some work to be done here, methinks. Plus, I used to think Sense made Android better. Since Google gave us ICS, it feels like an abomination
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
ripin150 said:
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
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Click to collapse
The Krait CPU in the dual core version is actually super competitive with the Tegra3 quad core version, so if it is slower than the Atrix, more power to the developers!
ripin150 said:
Did you get a 4G LTE one? That ones dual core just like the, and the unlocked HSPA+ ones are quad core. At least, thats how I understand it, correct me if im wrong.
But still, it being "just a dual core" shouldnt make it laggy, if anything it should be a similar experience to the Atrix, or more so. Very peculiar.
Anyways, it looks like an awesome phone, maybe you just need some good ole Cyanogen magic to bring it out of its shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you something...
Actually, I would've preferred a Krait-based version (krait owns a9s in terms of performance per core, so an app is going to have to be very well threaded to run faster on Tegra 3... Plus Adreno 225 is a good deal faster than Tegra 3s GPU) but here in the UK we don't have commercially available LTE yet, so mine's the standard Kal-El quad.
It's better now its rooted and running a bloat-free ROM, but it doesn't feel faster than the Atrix tbh. It's nice to finally have a phone with a non-pentile screen though
Azurael said:
Actually, I would've preferred a Krait-based version (krait owns a9s in terms of performance per core, so an app is going to have to be very well threaded to run faster on Tegra 3... Plus Adreno 225 is a good deal faster than Tegra 3s GPU) but here in the UK we don't have commercially available LTE yet, so mine's the standard Kal-El quad.
It's better now its rooted and running a bloat-free ROM, but it doesn't feel faster than the Atrix tbh. It's nice to finally have a phone with a non-pentile screen though
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That's so weird to hear that the quad isn't as fast. I know we don't need quad cores at all, its stupid and only for wow factor, but its still weird to hear that. Once more developers get on into the One X though, its going to be sick. A lot of devs are leaving the Desire HD to get the One X.
What is the One X overclock-able to?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
i wonder if a de-sensed ROM on the oneX would be smoother?
I wouldn't be surprised if next gen smartphones have a core i7 3960X and 24GB of ram.
Hah! You've hit on why I never bought into the hype for the SGSII. I think we've reached a point where, unless Android 5+ has something really heavy in it the OS is no longer bottlenecked by hardware. Dual core 1Ghz+ CPUs are enough for Android to run like butter, and as a result the screen or LTE are the only incentives to upgrade at this point in time.
I hear you on pentile, ever since I read about it I cant un-notice it on greens. But is a screen really worth $200(contract)-$600(no contract)? IMO its not.
Either way, enjoy your One X. Its popularity and HTC's track record with unlockable bootloaders should all but guarantee you'll see stock ICS roms pretty soon.
The HTC One X comes with Sense 4 so it already has ICS.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
Jotokun said:
Hah! You've hit on why I never bought into the hype for the SGSII. I think we've reached a point where, unless Android 5+ has something really heavy in it the OS is no longer bottlenecked by hardware. Dual core 1Ghz+ CPUs are enough for Android to run like butter, and as a result the screen or LTE are the only incentives to upgrade at this point in time.
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Sure are. To be honest, I was perfectly happy with my Atrix. With CM9, it's perfect - incredibly fast, stable and great battery life (at least as far as Android phones go ). The only reason I upgraded was because I came to the end of my contract, and as I have to keep paying the amount I am for the internet coverage anyway, I figured why not renew for another 2 years and grab a new toy with no up-front cost.
I hear you on pentile, ever since I read about it I cant un-notice it on greens. But is a screen really worth $200(contract)-$600(no contract)? IMO its not.
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Actually, the Atrix PenTile LCD (RGBW) annoyed me far less than the AMOLED (RGBG) on the Desire I had previously - at least with the Atrix arrangement, black on white/white on black are rendered at full resolution, so most text is very sharp, whereas everything but green renders at 1/4 res on the non-super AMOLED!
Either way, enjoy your One X. Its popularity and HTC's track record with unlockable bootloaders should all but guarantee you'll see stock ICS roms pretty soon.
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Yeah, I think I should be on to a safe bet, the Desire development community is massive, which I always appreciated when I had one And I guess the One X is 2012's Desire... I'm (rather impatiently) looking forward to S-Off, AOSP/CM9 and custom kernels though.
I just need to get used to this size tax that all Android device manufacturers seem to be applying to their high-end phones these days 'Want a powerful phone? Sorry, it's got to be unfathomably gigantic' [it's not the bulk - the One X is lighter and thinner than the Atrix... What really irks me that I can't reach the top corners of the screen whilst holding the phone securely in one hand walking down the road or whatever. But maybe that's just me....]
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
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gitman0 said:
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
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I don't think video recording works, plus the browser tends to crash if you rotate from portrait to landscape. I now just turn the phone before starting the browser as a matter of habit Hardware video playback/encoding acceleration doesn't yet work, so most flash video at high bitrates is choppy at best, though Youtube works fine, as does local video (the files I tried, anyway). As always for CM roms, Moto webtop doesn't work, although there is a tablet-view based alternative that I think is currently working - it appears this is the route Motorola are going for in their own ICS ROMs anyway, so it will probably be the case for the Atrix too upon release. I don't really know as I've never used it.
But aside from that: yes, it's amazing. Far faster than any Froyo or Gingerbread release I tried in feel. The browser is much faster both in terms of page rendering and scrolling/zooming smoothness. Even complex AJAX web pages scroll and interact smoothly. With Chrome Beta, it's even better! Scrolling and transitions in general are much smoother thanks to the hardware accelerated GUI. To me, the Atrix feels like a whole new phone with ICS. Oh, and I forgot: The battery life is much better with my usage too - I rarely see below about 60% when returning from work these days where as back when I was running CM7, it would often be closer to 30%...
gitman0 said:
So even though CM9 is still in alpha, it works great? Is there anything about it that doesn't work?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
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This thread inspired me to give CM9 a try. It's definitely not ready for prime time. I went back to CM7. The camera didn't work half the time. Video recording doesn't work at all. Can't use tabs in Chrome and it crashed often. No fingerprint unlock which isn't a deal breaker but still a bummer.
yeahmann said:
This thread inspired me to give CM9 a try. It's definitely not ready for prime time. I went back to CM7. The camera didn't work half the time. Video recording doesn't work at all. Can't use tabs in Chrome and it crashed often. No fingerprint unlock which isn't a deal breaker but still a bummer.
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Click to collapse
I've used phones with OEM firmware with more bugs
What's up with the camera? I have zero issues with stills... Although the Atrix's camera is so terrible it's not really worth using anyway! (I'm sure the camera on my old Desire was a lot better? As is, obviously, the One X - though even that doesn't compete with the cheapest 'real' camera...)
Personally, I found that despite the bugs, going back to <ICS feels like being in the stone age Scrolling, zooming and the render time for complex pages in the browser is so bad on GB I actually hated browsing the web on it before the (very buggy) early test builds of CM9 came along. You can't even use Chrome on previous versions, so why does that matter? The stock browser is infinitely better on ICS than GB...
All the work these guys have put in to bring us ICS, IMO is incredible. Maybe it's not ready for 'prime time' but I'd hazard a guess that Motorola's initial official releases will likely be just as/more buggy (although maybe in different ways) and probably a hell of a lot slower if previous AOSP/CM vs. Moto ROM rules apply... Having said that, the correct + working video drivers from the Moto release when they drop will likely fix everything that's wrong with CM9 on the Atrix at the moment.
Azurael said:
I'd hazard a guess that Motorola's initial official releases will likely be just as/more buggy
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thats just not realistic...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
What don't work on CM9 Roms?
gitman0 said:
thats just not realistic...
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Why cut off the parenthesis? He said in different ways, which is more than possible
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Alcapone263 said:
Why cut off the parenthesis? He said in different ways, which is more than possible
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because stating that the official release will have as many if not more bugs is not the same as stating it will have different bugs. my argument is against the former. do you really think an official release from motorola, a company that has all the resources they need available to them (including a QA team), would have as many or more bugs than a community-developed ROM, which itself was a best-effort attempt at porting ICS to a platform which did not already have it? i'm sorry, but that is just a brash generalization possibly rooted in some sort of loathsomeness for not having an official ICS release already.
gitman0 said:
because stating that the official release will have as many if not more bugs is not the same as stating it will have different bugs. my argument is against the former. do you really think an official release from motorola, a company that has all the resources they need available to them (including a QA team), would have as many or more bugs than a community-developed ROM, which itself was a best-effort attempt at porting ICS to a platform which did not already have it?
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Unfortunately, many Android lovers tend to believe community devs can do no wrong and corporate devs are slow and retarded.
If so, then why is dev work SO much better when source code, drivers, and official builds are released?
CM9 will be absolutely beyond amazing once official Atrix ICS is out and drivers/source is out.