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Hi guys,
I've been reading this forum for almost a month now (since I got my Epic), and I still haven't seen any description for a lot of the software you're using. I'm not an idiot here, I made a joeykrim exploit uninstaller of my own shortly after noobnl posted the one click exploit. Still, I'm not a mind reader. How do you guys even keep up with this?
ClockworkMod - The website describes it as, "An open source recovery image used by many phones". Not very helpful. There's a post on their forums asking what it does, with no response.
Andromeda - Apparently a ROM Manager with built in root. Not very helpful. Starting from the top, why would I need a ROM manager? Does this run on the phone? Why would I want a ROM manager on my phone? Doesn't this serve the same function as ClockworkMod?
AOSP Magic and Tha Boss ROM - Neither of these have any instructions. Tha Boss ROM actually includes a download link, while AOSP Magic eschews the link in favor of a video review. The video review is nice, as it contains the first instructions I've seen so far, brief as they may be.
A few lines of description on your releases would really help the new people. Really, you'd have to be a fool to download these programs and flash/fry your phone without description or instruction! You're pushing away the more cautious people who might otherwise join in.
Netop said:
Hi guys,
I've been reading this forum for almost a month now (since I got my Epic), and I still haven't seen any description for a lot of the software you're using. I'm not an idiot here, I made a joeykrim exploit uninstaller of my own shortly after noobnl posted the one click exploit. Still, I'm not a mind reader. How do you guys even keep up with this?
ClockworkMod - The website describes it as, "An open source recovery image used by many phones". Not very helpful. There's a post on their forums asking what it does, with no response.
Andromeda - Apparently a ROM Manager with built in root. Not very helpful. Starting from the top, why would I need a ROM manager? Does this run on the phone? Why would I want a ROM manager on my phone? Doesn't this serve the same function as ClockworkMod?
AOSP Magic and Tha Boss ROM - Neither of these have any instructions. Tha Boss ROM actually includes a download link, while AOSP Magic eschews the link in favor of a video review. The video review is nice, as it contains the first instructions I've seen so far, brief as they may be.
A few lines of description on your releases would really help the new people. Really, you'd have to be a fool to download these programs and flash/fry your phone without description or instruction! You're pushing away the more cautious people who might otherwise join in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
clockwork rom manager is an app on your phone that requires root access, allows you to flash roms under the android OS and is nice and GUI (graphic user interface)
clockwork recovery is at the boot level, before the android OS loads, it's used as a minimal menu to do lower level functions such as flashing roms to your phone, clockwork rom manager uses this as it's backend for flashing roms.
androidmedia, boss rom and aosp magic are all roms (entire custom android OS packages) flashable though clockwork recovery
everything listed as a kernel is only a chunk of the OS that controls the hardware and such... they can overclock the device and improve battery etc. applications and favorites and other user data stuff is uneffected.
the weird names are just what the developers are naming their software. What you should be paying attention to are key terms like
ROM, KERNEL, RECOVERY those are the different parts that are being modified...
That being said.... for someone that researched for over a month, you don't seem to be quite getting it, also this doesn't need to be in developer forum, and all this is in the hundreds of WIKI's posted on other android devices.. also a quick google search would answer most of your questions you're having
Netop said:
ClockworkMod -
Andromeda -
AOSP Magic and Tha Boss ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ClockworkMod - makes a custom recovery, along with many other programs and apps, that makes flashing custom rom's and kernels much easier. Add Clockwork Recovery to your phone and you can load any custom rom or kernel you want by simply booting into recovery. Instructions to install it on your phone are in the OP (original post) of the clockwork recovery thread.
Andromeda - It is a group of custom programs noobnl has made. He made a custom kernel (this overclocks (makes faster) your cpu and undervolts (adds battery life)). His kernel also installs rom manager and super user to make make rooting more functional. Noobnl also has an andromeda rom that modifies touchwiz to be a little different with some different features. In both cases read the OP of the two threads and you will find easy installation instructions (using clockworkmod recovery) and a description of what they both do.
Aosp Magic and Tha Boss - These are both custom roms that in some way change how your phone looks and functions. Custom roms are all just ways to personalize your phone. For the most part they all install easily with clockwork recovery. Read the OP of any rom and it tells what they have done, what they do with each update, and how to install it.
Not trying to be mean or anything, but reading the OP pretty much always explains everything. I have only been doing this since they epic came out and have just learned by trying things out. It is very difficult to fully brick your phone. Most the time if you can't get your phone to work you can use Odin (see the thread for more info) to flash back to stock and start over.
Just my two cents but people who are pushed away isn't a bad thing. If they don't know what they are doing they don't need to be doing this. There are several terminology threads on this site...pushing them away means a lot less clutter in the dev threads and else where. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be here at all, but read read read read....read....and then read some more. And if all else fails bash it with a hammer and turn it in on insurance.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
See, its hard to really complain on this because some people are doing some cool stuff on their own effort and time, but I will agree with the OP on this. I agree that only a few lines of descriptions would not only help new users but cut a LOT of threads and posts from people interested but unsure of what do or what something is. And in fairness, it sounds pretty bad when u say that if people aren't that familiar with stuff they shouldn't try it. We don't all know everything and sometimes a little info goes a long way. But that's just my opinion.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Unfortunately if you can't search, read, and understand all the info that is posted you'll have only one option to customize your phone...Sprint ID(which will cost you $$). I've found that none of the processes, such as rooting or flashing kernels, are difficult to perform. In fact sometimes the amount of information already provided becomes confusing to some. I understand the issue devs have with the clutter in this section of the forum. Maybe mods can help by moving topics to the general section and maybe preserving the cleanliness of this section. On the other hand, why all the rage against people asking questions? If I'm not mistaken everyone isn't magically born with all the knowledge required to customize their phone. That's why there are forums like these to provide a community where people seeking knowledge can find it. Personally I find the forums for any piece of hardware from my Directv box to my Epic to be absolutely the most valuable "manual" I can have. Its nice to rely on actual intelligent users for information and not a low paid csr with a script on the other end of the phone.
zetterwing said:
Unfortunately if you can't search, read, and understand all the info that is posted you'll have only one option to customize your phone...Sprint ID(which will cost you $$). I've found that none of the processes, such as rooting or flashing kernels, are difficult to perform. In fact sometimes the amount of information already provided becomes confusing to some. I understand the issue devs have with the clutter in this section of the forum. Maybe mods can help by moving topics to the general section and maybe preserving the cleanliness of this section. On the other hand, why all the rage against people asking questions? If I'm not mistaken everyone isn't magically born with all the knowledge required to customize their phone. That's why there are forums like these to provide a community where people seeking knowledge can find it. Personally I find the forums for any piece of hardware from my Directv box to my Epic to be absolutely the most valuable "manual" I can have. Its nice to rely on actual intelligent users for information and not a low paid csr with a script on the other end of the phone.
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Click to collapse
no problem with the questions, it's just where it's being asked is the problem. People don't think their question will be answered if asked in the general section, or the thread that relates to their problem and decides... I'll just post in the dev section.. there's smart people in that forum!
I've seen it more than once, people don't want to search, or research... or read.. they want to ask a question and have someone answer it directly without having to dig back through posts that don't relate to the question they're asking. Like I said I seen it more than once and the mentality is easy to pick up on.
Don't worry I'm on your side. I've just seen some pretty rough treatment of someone asking a question...in this forum actually(not this thread). They were posting in the wrong place but there's a better way to direct someone to the right place than to berate them. That being said go to the Search and type in "root my phone" without quotes and THIS thread shows up higher in the list than one-click-root. Tends to throw people off the search function. I know it's a faulty way of searching but it's the way people do things. Many forums have problems with their search though. A google search for root Epic 4g has similar problems...the top results link to outdated information and the one click is halfway down the page.
People don't always read the rules of a forum either...it's just human nature. At least the people that make it here are finding the smartest people to answer their questions
Thread moved to General. Please stop flaming the OP.
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...
Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.
What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.
Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
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Click to collapse
True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant
Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
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Click to collapse
Enough said.
Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland
Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/
3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
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Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.
Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.
All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs
I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea
Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire
We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed
Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them
I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)
I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.
Can someone tell me whats up with the 50+ ICS ROMs? It's a bit concerning that all this effort seems to be put into reproducing the same exact thing. I think the community would benefit from cooperation rather than competition... But I feel like I must be missing something here, I am new to the Nexus S but not to Android, is there something about the Nexus S community that I'm not getting?
Not complaining at all, or should I say, I'm not trying to complain. I also want to point out that I appreciate the developers who pour their time and effort into our devices and help us to get the maximum value out of them.
(Want to note, I am running AOSP's ICS build and loving it.)
joenathane said:
Can someone tell me whats up with the 50+ ICS ROMs? It's a bit concerning that all this effort seems to be put into reproducing the same exact thing. I think the community would benefit from cooperation rather than competition... But I feel like I must be missing something here, I am new to the Nexus S but not to Android, is there something about the Nexus S community that I'm not getting?
Not complaining at all, or should I say, I'm not trying to complain. I also want to point out that I appreciate the developers who pour their time and effort into our devices and help us to get the maximum value out of them.
(Want to note, I am running AOSP's ICS build and loving it.)
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Click to collapse
Hey Man, I am much similar to where you are right now. I am not new to Nexus S or Android, but I feel that the abundance of ROMs is a good thing.
Having so many ROMs shows that the device is still running very strong: Something Android phones NEED to have behind them.
On the other hand I dislike it. To all the developers out there, I think you guys are amazing and genius no doubt. So take the following lightly...
What people don't like to see when browsing for a ROM is a dozen ROMs that are all identical. We need something new and fresh, hence why I like MIUI.
What I think should be done is as you said, have co-operation to make one master ROM because we have hundreds of people in the Nexus S community ready to help.
Speaking on my behalf I HATE SO MANY ROMs Because I simply cannot decide which is best because they are all similar in many ways, and I don't have time to try each one out as much as I want to. I do like having these ROMs but when it comes to choosing one its a big choice for me.
Any feedback on this?
I agree with a not so great abundance or ROMs. But most are not devs. They are simply "chefs" because they never actually developed anything. They just price and scrap things from source to mods. Cm9, ASOP, Peter A(because of his radios and kernal) are devs. We have lots of chefs.
I made brickROM just because of this situation. Its never been done, but the community wasn't ready for it yet.
Either way you can tell what rom has Is "real" I would say there's about only 5
And its sad for new Android users that come here get presided by a catching slogan and rob themselves from using a much better rom
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
What would you do if you don't like any of the existing ROMs? May be one is missing a feature you need, another just has too many features you don't want? The answer is simple -- create your own ROM, or modify an existing one... I think most devs just make the ROM they want to use as their daily driver and simply share it here (i.e. what's going on is not about competition, at least from my point of view)
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
suksit said:
What would you do if you don't like any of the existing ROMs? May be one is missing a feature you need, another just has too many features you don't want? The answer is simple -- create your own ROM, or modify an existing one... I think most devs just make the ROM they want to use as their daily driver and simply share it here (i.e. what's going on is not about competition, at least from my point of view)
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
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Click to collapse
But these futures found in everyone's ROM are just mods that you can flash. I flash 8 zips with every rom update but I know that a personal mix so I have no need to share it.
I'm capiale of changing my waklppaer
I flash custom font, and inverted apps with some tyranny Widgets and kernal. With gnex sounds. No reason to "cook" it. This is not development.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
suksit said:
It sounds good to gather all devs to create a ROM that suits everyone's needs, but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do that
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Click to collapse
The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
joenathane said:
The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
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Click to collapse
I am agree with you CyanogenMod need a bug tracker for CM9.
Here is an interesting fact in case anyone didn't know but MR. Cyanogen himself is rocking a Nexus S http://twitter.com/#!/cyanogen/status/153353404159234049
I wonder what build of ICS he is running, probably from his own private reserve...
joenathane said:
The CyanogenMod team pull it off quite well, all that is needed is a bug tracker and patch review system and boom! instant cooperation.
Maybe we have too many "chefs" in the kitchen
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Click to collapse
I will be honest here and say that I personally dislike Cyanogen Mod for the most part. True that they are the gut best in performance, but if the only ROM I had was Cyanogen, I would not be very happy with it. I just think that for my favor, Cyanogen focus' so much on power, yet takes the look of the ROM as a after thought. The modified music on Cyanogen ROMs and the overall execution of his work lacks style and design, as if he first said "Make it fast, then maybe make it look ok" MIUI on the other hand has a great deal invested in how it looks which gives a very effective illusion of performance.
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
LGIQEXPO said:
I will be honest here and say that I personally dislike Cyanogen Mod for the most part. True that they are the gut best in performance, but if the only ROM I had was Cyanogen, I would not be very happy with it. I just think that for my favor, Cyanogen focus' so much on power, yet takes the look of the ROM as a after thought. The modified music on Cyanogen ROMs and the overall execution of his work lacks style and design, as if he first said "Make it fast, then maybe make it look ok" MIUI on the other hand has a great deal invested in how it looks which gives a very effective illusion of performance.
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
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Click to collapse
The only problem with that is Miui uses CyanogenMod code as a base(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIUI#Development) and CyanogenMod 7 has the theme chooser integrated for easy themeing(check the last three links in my signature to see some themes I created for it).
I don't think any mod team have contributed more to Android than the CyanogenMod Team, they certainly have my respect for that.
I agree about the spices, all these chefs cooking the same exact entree and now which on to choose...
joenathane said:
The only problem with that is Miui uses CyanogenMod code as a base(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIUI#Development)
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Click to collapse
It's a fact, not a problem.
Back on topic,
LGIQEXPO said:
I think that the problem is we have so many chefs in that small kitchen and they have all made so many great dishes that sooner or later they will have eventually all used the same spices by some point, so we are beginning to lose that uniqueness in each one.
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I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
suksit said:
It's a fact, not a problem.
Back on topic,
I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
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This^^ plus one thing, good all these chefs are popping up, that's showing a swell in number of people interested in development, in the end it can only have a positive outcome. Let em dev.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
suksit said:
It's a fact, not a problem.
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I obviously didn't mean problem in that sense, I meant it as in the 'problem' with his argument not the problem with CyanogenMod or Miui, I'm not sure how you interpreted it the way you did...
suksit said:
I believe at some point the community will decide which dishes live and which will die. I don't think people will keep posting ROMs if nobody uses it.
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Click to collapse
what about the "noobs" who are instantly confronted with 20+ ICS ROMs and not a clue to which is worth its weight in salt?
joenathane said:
I obviously didn't mean problem in that sense, I meant it as in the 'problem' with his argument not the problem with CyanogenMod or Miui, I'm not sure how you interpreted it the way you did...
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Sorry if I interpreted it wrong (English is not my native language anyway ) I thought you're trying to imply that "since MIUI is based on CM, @LGIQEXPO shouldn't compare them together" or "if you like MIUI, it means you already liked CM." Just wanted to say that it is not a problem if one wants to compare those two.
joenathane said:
what about the "noobs" who are instantly confronted with 20+ ICS ROMs and not a clue to which is worth its weight in salt?
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Occasionally I'd see a thread titled "Help me decide which ROM is best" and the most popular answer would be "Why don't you try them all?" Yeah it would be madness to try all 20+ ROMs in a row, but I don't think anyone will do that.
Before flashing a ROM, I'd (suggest them to) read everything in the first few posts by the OP, and take a look at the screenshots (most of the time I can decide if I will like this ROM or not by these two factors) If those "noobs" are not too ignorant I believe they'll have a small list of ROM(s) they want to try (may be 4-5 choices, which is reasonable.)
I know it is on the same code, but I more so meant the apps that MIUI re-did for their ROMs, and how they offer a nice end user appeal.
What would be amazing is if all the known devs of these ROMs would just once come together to use their own strengths, and make a mast ROM out of it. MIUI Design and style, Cyanogen tweaks and speed, Peter A. stability, the overclocking everything! (I can't wait for that hahah )
you want fewer rom, get a ns4g. Although we only have a fraction of the roms found in the other forum, they all seem to have their own distinct character.
i was using an SII before this so i was a frequent on that part of xda.. they do have a separate page for original development and another one for development (being kitchen products)
Hey,
Just wanted to add my opinion in all of this that there are so many "equal" roms.
I as some mentioned on another thread am a chef to rom developing, and I don't mind.
Why I do this is because I don't have the time or knowledge to create Android source apps so I take what I think is the best from each rom and create my own.
For example for me CM9 is way to bloated with too many configurations and options I prefer a more real cleaner AOSP, something like Peter Alfonso (buglessBeast), but I do like the T9 dialer from CM9, so I cherry-pick that from CM9 and add it to a PA base.
Also for the notifications power menu I liked TeamKang one so I added that. That way I'm making my own custom rom to my liking and also I don't have to be flashing 20 zips every time there is a new update or wipe my phone
I just thought on sharing it just if some one has the same likes in roms I'm no asking for anything in return. Also I do this in my little free time.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
mandaman2k said:
Hey,
Just wanted to add my opinion in all of this that there are so many "equal" roms.
I as some mentioned on another thread am a chef to rom developing, and I don't mind.
Why I do this is because I don't have the time or knowledge to create Android source apps so I take what I think is the best from each rom and create my own.
For example for me CM9 is way to bloated with too many configurations and options I prefer a more real cleaner AOSP, something like Peter Alfonso (buglessBeast), but I do like the T9 dialer from CM9, so I cherry-pick that from CM9 and add it to a PA base.
Also for the notifications power menu I liked TeamKang one so I added that. That way I'm making my own custom rom to my liking and also I don't have to be flashing 20 zips every time there is a new update or wipe my phone
I just thought on sharing it just if some one has the same likes in roms I'm no asking for anything in return. Also I do this in my little free time.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
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Thanks for adding your voice to the discourse.
If I was asked to offer an opinion on what you do, this is what I would say....
I think what you do is okay for you, but the problem is when you release it. There is a problem because as you state, you cherry pick features and/or "code" from other ROMs, and that can/will lead to issues for your user base. Lets take for example the T9 dialer, what happens when security bugs are found and fixed and optimizations make it into an update of the T9 dialer? Well that would mean you would need to update your ROM, but what if you're busy with your job or just with life and are too busy to get around to it? Well now your users of your ROM are without those security, bug fixes and optimizations, and multiply that by all the other pieces of the ROM that you cherry picked from other sources.
My point here to be clear is that due to the nature of your ROM, it will always lag in patches to security issues, bug fixes and optimizations and I think that is ultimately a disservice to your user base.
There is a value that you create, so I guess the question here is, does that value of bringing all these pieces into one convenient package outweigh the negatives of the lagging patches/fixes?
I mean no offense, and I hope this isn't taken as such, I just want to encourage some discourse on these things...
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
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huh?
im yet to see what this section is for too
panyan said:
im yet to see what this section is for too
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Yea ive seen it on other sections before, But I dont fully understand it
What the hell is 'original development' ??
What is the current development ? Un original ?
whats with the need to add un-necessary sub sections ? It just fuels confusion
Maybe "original" means "real". So there will be a chance to distinguish between cloning/adding/tweaking from development
Do we need / want it ?? I think we should open up a poll and pass the results on to the mod(s)
We had a similar thing in the HTC One S forums, Where they added a subsection for Tmobile Versions, It was totally un-needed as there were no differences between the 2 devices. We made a poll and the section got removed.
Sometimes these things do more bad than good, As if the flashing procedure isnt difficult enough already, What with the brickbug and all that.
If you think its a good idea to remove it, Ill open a poll before the section gets full with stuff.
Why not wait a little bit and see what it should be used for?
One Mod will explain sooner or later...
lets just hope its something useful
Is it so hard to understand? All stuff about original roms goes in there.
What do you mean Original ROMs ? Things like Stock TW ROMs ? Or does that include Custom ROMs too ?
Only in the SGS2 threads the 'original' section is full of custom ROMs and kernels too.
I mean this device is almost 12months old, We've survived without it.
Im just old fashioned Change freaks me out
Confusing?
Hate It?
Simply Don't Open It
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
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wish you could enlighten us on how it was a unique crap and a **** for s2 then?
original = stock = cooked roms
the other thread will be for "really" developed roms i.e, aokp/aosp/cm9 variants
So if some one builds a ROM based on Cynogen Mod from scratch..will it be in original section or since its from CM it will be in Development
btw this was the rule posted there
The following are most likely “Original Development”:
Official releases of highly original and upstream custom ROMs (built from the ground up with significant original development within them
Official releases/development of such original ROMs, perhaps posted by the maintainer or their nominated person.
A significant “first” in development for a device. Significant is subjective, but it is likely something which took considerable time/effort, and is generally accepted by developers to be significant and non-trivial.
Kernels which are built with beneficial changes that are not simply pulled from other kernels already available. Some element of original work is expected.
Tools and utilities with a clear purpose, and which are well-made, and useful to users. They should have an element of originality, either in purpose or through significant improvement in the means of operation.
Significant port of a ROM from one device to another, giving enhanced features or functionality to users of the target device. The port should be beneficial (a port from two virtually identical devices isn’t original development, it’s winzipping, and nobody really benefits from this, as it’s not development)
The following are most likely not “Original Development”, and should be posted in the “Android Development” subforum:
Your own “unofficial” stock build of your favourite original, source-built (or otherwise) ROM, particularly where an official or maintainer-endorsed thread exists already.
Minor derivatives of other ROMs with little or no changes, or ROMs consisting of “placebo” features as a main constituent or claim.
Renames or rebadges of others’ work – these don’t belong on XDA at all! Refer to rule 12 for more information.
Reposts of existing ROMs with small changes (i.e. kitchen work, such as adding a couple of apps). If you could realistically distribute your changes as an “addon pack” above and beyond a ROM, you should do so. In addition, your “ROM” would not be original development as it would be substantially identical to the original ROM.
A thread created with unrealistic goals that are clearly unachievable by those starting the thread. This is not intended to discourage high aspirations, rather to prevent threads porting Windows Phone 8 to the HTC Wallaby. This is pretty much common sense.
A ROM where a main or significant claim/feature is graphical changes to the user interface (ie. Themed ROM)
i get the idea to separate the genuine development from the WinZip one, but it may not be that easy in practice to distinguish those lying somewhere in between
See Here
XDA, the moderators and the powers that be.... have been wrestling with trying to differentiate the Difference between the Code-writing Development and the Quasi-developers that use rom cooking tools.
To that end we will be going through the development threads in the next couple of weeks and moving the appropriate threads that meet the original code requirement to be placed in this new forum.
Please bear in mind that this is a "Work in Progress" and will take a bit of time to hone and perfect what goes where.
Also, please understand that this does not mean that some developers are on some special pedestal. That is not the case.
I will use an analogy to explain:
A music composer writes an original piece of music. The music composition may be awesome... but his performance of it, may not.
Such often is the case in developers..... often someone comes up with a awesome idea or new code application, but it often ends up being perfected by the use of others putting their creative spin on it.
That is the beauty of The Android Platform and ....XDA provides a fertile field for all to share ideas and collectively improve our experience
I hope this clarifys the potential questions
Thanks from the Moderators
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At the end of the day everything is built from something else but what they are getting at is ROMs that are just other roms with maybe a new theme and tweaks taken from else where would just be in the normal development.
But if you came up with something new and different (not just a rehash of other peoples work) then it should go in original development
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
azzledazzle said:
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
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sahilarora2003 said:
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
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It makes alot of sense, will make it easy to find new and 'bigger' development work against the small tweaked roms which while important are starting to fill up the forum
It was tested in the S2 forums and has been rolling out XDA wide so theres not alot a poll will do, in honour of the hitch hikers guide of the galaxy, the plans have been on show for quite some time, if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout.
I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.
Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
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I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
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We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
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...lol, 'nuff said!
I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start
Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.
I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
XDA Moderator
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
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I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.
I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.
Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933
Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM
What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
----------------------
Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
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LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link
While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.
PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
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Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
XDA Moderator