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Hey,
I'm trying to make a User Interface for a program using Visual C++ 2005.
I have two options for Smart device applications.
1. A project for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Active Template Library.
2. An application for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Microsoft Foundation Class Library.
Which is the right one to use for Pocket PCs?
No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
BTW - regarding your signature:
"A tiger does not have to proclaim its tigri-tude."
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clearly Wole Soyinka hasn't met Tigger.
V
vijay555 said:
No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
V
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I see.
I'm trying to make a GUI app for WindowsMobile. Any ideas?
Hi 27,
I'm not sure what you want your GUI to contain but a simple Embedded MFC app with a dialog might be a good way to get going?
best of luck...
dav
I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
Avoid MFC like the plague -- MFC apps tend toward the large side, and it tends to force you into a document/view model that might not be appropriate for your app. I did quite a bit of MFC work in the early and mid 90s; most of my time went to working around MFC's limitations.
If you go the ATL route check out WTL, a set of C++ template classes that extends the UI functionality of ATL considerably. I've been using it since it first came out and wouldn't switch back to MFC if you put a gun to my head.
I agree. MFC makes everything less straight forward. Why use something designed to hide how it works? I use plain win32. After the pain of starting from scratch you eventually build up your own code base to reuse.
both can be used
MFC is old and bulky but many things are don automaticly
compared to win32 sdk
you can also use .net but they are somewhat slow
but dont use much space
win32 sdk is the fastest and can do anything but it's the most work
3waygeek said:
I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
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How can i do this on VisualStudio 2005?
I'm a bit new to this.
Strange question - you develop in Win32 by NOT developing in MFC or ATL
The other frameworks are built on top of the native Win32 API. So learning the bareknuckle stuff first helps you to learn how to get the most out of the other stuff.
V
27 ask a importent question imho
can ppl make nativ CE api projects in 2005
or do you need embedded c++ to do that?
btw i believe that embedded c++ is free so if 2005 cant do it
ppl can just get the embedded version
VS2005 does native Win32 (2003, Smartphone and WM5).
EVC is of course free, and runs much better IMHO (eg no bugs in the Remote Tools etc, faster). I can't think of a good reason to upgrade unless you're developing expressly for WM5 or using non C++ languages, for which VS2005 is required.
V
I'm developing a small application for my HTC Wizard, which I'm programming with Visual Studio 2003.
I need to open the shell application for M3U files, which I've tracked down to HKCR\M3UFile\Shell\Open\Command... but now I can't figure out how to either read that key to open the relevant player, or to execute the m3u file directly.
Because I'm using VS2003, I don't have access to system.win32 with the compact framework, so what techniques have others of you used to read or write to the registry?
Also, just as a side note, how do you find the current path?
Thanks,
Jon
There is no real concept of current path in CE. If you want to know the path your EXE is in, use GetModuleHandle(NULL) -- it'll return the fully-qualified path name of that process's EXE, from which you can parse out a path.
I'd advise against using the compact framework; .Net is a loser on PPCs as it just slows things down, taking up extra memory & cycles on a platform where both are in short supply. Use the real Windows APIs instead -- i.e. call RegCreateKeyEx/RegSetValueEx.
And if you choose to use Win32 API you can just call ShellExecuteEx()
and not mess with the registry.
RegQueryValueEx is what you need. Just set the appropriate type and buffer.
V
I'm always willing to learn new stuff... are there any good resources on programming for PPC without using .net?
I know there's EVC++, but I've installed it, and now I don't know what to do with it!
Regards,
Jon
JonTheNiceGuy said:
I'm always willing to learn new stuff... are there any good resources on programming for PPC without using .net?
I know there's EVC++, but I've installed it, and now I don't know what to do with it!
Regards,
Jon
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You can either use EVC++4, which is free but has an aged, not-so-standard C++ compiler (since it based on VC++6...but it only means a few quirks), or you can use Visual Studio 2005 which is supposed to replace EVC.
Jon, not to state the obvious, but there are many c++ tutorials for the PPC on the interweb.
What kind of experience do you have?
V
I have no prior experience with C++ - I bought the C++ For Dummies book in a charity shop a month or so ago, but it seems to refer to software that isn't available any more!
My core experience is with PHP, and recently I've been more interested in VB.NET for small apps at work, but most of what I want to do is with Windows Mobile - for which, all I have is Visual Studio 2003, and my co. won't fund me buying VS2005 as I got it for an old project that I still maintain, and anything new I need to write for work I can do with VS2005 Express...
That said, I'm not afraid of learning a new language, especially something as powerful as C++.
C++ for dummies is excellent, the best I've come across so far.
Have a read through this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=209136#209136
I'm currently unlearning and then relearning my c++ - one thing I've learnt coming from other languages - c++ requires discipline. It's not about shortcuts, you build up from the basics and keep going steadily. But you need to be logical, and prepared to put in the effort. So discipline - it's been a long time since I've had to think about that!
V
Can I develop software to WM5 but no .Net frameworks ?
Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.
1 cool think about .net though is i had a sudoko or whatever it's called
program for pda and the same exe workd on pc too
but all in all .net is a slow as java though on pocketpc the .net maybe better implemented then the java vm's
levenum said:
Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.
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hi levenum,
i have VS 2005 and WM 5 sdk installed.
well my problem is C++ which i never read seriously but i have a good
working base of C on which i had developed two simple game.
How can i implement the code in VS2005/WM5SDK with minimal
interaction of C++ ?
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
Can u suggest me a tutorial or any free book?
with c vs. c++ it's really much the same ++ is just an expansion with nativ class and other object orientented features
any c program should be able to compile using a c++ compiler
but i doubt you can write CE programs or even windows programs without using any kind of class related code
heck you cant even do that in basic (evil language) or c#
the internet is soo full of free programming stuff it's not even funny
buying paper books is a thing of the past imho unless you want to read while on the toilet and dont have a laptop or pda
http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus6/
good googling for more
Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?
levenum said:
Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?
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thanx,
i had already compleated "hello world"
and C++ is really not much away from me
actually i only have a single problem:
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
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well i think it is more exactly Win CE API knowledge which i require.
How Do I Start Cooking Roms
I Know A Bit Of C++ ,how Do I Start Cooking My Own Roms
tawanda: first off - your question has nothing to do with this thread, if you have an unrelated question you should start a new thread BUT search first to make sure it was not asked and answered a 1000 times!
As for your question - cooking ROMs is not programming - it helps to know a programming language but what you really need to do is familiarize your self with the tools used to pack and unpack as well as dump and flash ROM images.
Note that these tools are different for different devices or at the very least need to be configured differently.
I recommend you start by reading the WiKi.
After some years of absence from the programming world I think now I've time enough to start again. I'm familiar (but a bit rusty) with assembler, C and C++, but I think I have start more or less from the beginning.
I already installed Visual Studio 2005 and the WM05 and WM06 SDK. Now I'm not sure whether I should use C# or C++. The big difference is that C# needs compact framework?
Your question is mainly a matter of personal preference.
Here is my opinion on C++ vs. C#:
C++ advantages:
- Native code is faster than .NET
- Easier access to Win32 APIs
- Ability to write system components like keyboards and today plugins.
C# advantages:
- Saves on coding time
- Allows use of many .NET CF components to quickly accomplish complex tasks.
Please note that I am bias. I hate .NET and want nothing to o with it. Specially on mobile devices that do not have the processing power to spare for the .NET overhead.
I second levenum's recommendations -- I've been programming big Windows for 15 years and have managed to avoid .NET. Of course most of what I do these days is NDIS driver programming, so it's mostly straight C, with C++ for supporting user-mode code.
Avoid MFC -- it adds a bit of overhead which is OK for big Windows, but not for WM. If you're going to use a C++ framework, I highly recommend using ATL/WTL -- it's what MFC wants to be when it grows up.
I'm looking at my visual studio 2005 and wanting to covert my c# application to C++...
I clicked on a new project and i'm looking at the various options in Visual C++ for Smart Devices. There are a few to choose from... how do I know which one I want to choose?
ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL
Can you guys tell me the difference between those options and which I should use to develop for WM6?
Thanks,
Derek
imho then a good pro of c# vs. c++ is the nice object lib that .net give
mfc is pretty crap in every respect and if you do pure stk
it's more work to make it object orientated
"ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL"
depend on what you want to do
i mean DLL is not a program but a lib that other programs can access
but then today items are dlls
win32 is pure win32 stk where you pretty much have to do all the prev work to get your application up and running
mfc is microsoft foundation clases it's an somewhat dated object lib from ms which makes making an application faster it pretty much give you a dialog and let you place components such as button on it
ActiveX is an somewhat evil internet programming platform
atl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Template_Library
you can prob find more info about everything you want more info about
from wikipedia too
thanks for the info rudegar!
hi!
next time i wanna try developing diamond apps on my own.
a few years ago, i developed software for pocket pcs using eVC++ 3.0. so you can see i'm used to programming and c++. i also wrote some java-stuff for symbian mobiles, means i do know java too.
in this forum, i saw quite a lot of code-snippets using c#. it looks similar to java and c++, from what i can tell by now. i'm very curious about learning that language in order to write my own diamond applications. so here are my question to the developers:
- are there any limitations to c#? on a pocketpc, you could nearly do everything with c++ and the win api. but java was very limited.
- can i use native api functions?
- which language is the most used one, when it comes to winmobile developing?
- c# is microsoft, right? does it make sense, to learn "a ms specific" language, instead of reactivating and strengthening knowledge in c++ and/or java?
thanks a lot for your advice!
yours, hebbe
I don't know so much about developing....... but some friends of mine develop app for WM and use VisualStudio 2008....... In this package you can find some compilers and I think Visual C++ is the best tool for writing apps....... But I'm telling you.... I'm not a developer, I only give you some information about what I found out listening some friends.
Now it's up to you........ Have a good luck!!!
To answer your questions:
C# does have a lot of limitation on WinMo platform. There's a lot of functionality that is missing from managed .NET libraries on WinMo. There are additional libraries that you can use to gain some of that functionality back, like OpenCFNET.
You can use native api, but you have to create COM Interop wrappers to call them.
C++ is still the language of choice for WinMo development.
C# is part of Microsoft .NET framework. The reason you see a lot of people use it, even with all of the limitations in WinMo environment is that it's a very popular language that can be used for any aspect of development (i.e. windows forms, web, devices, etc.). C# is also kindda not "ms specific" language, since there's a Mono framework, that allows you to use C# and .NET on almost any platform, including Linuxs and Macs.
this isn't the place to ask questions, there is a Q&A section for that.
thank you
Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.
jonnycat26 said:
Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can still stick with j2me, you'll just have to change a few things to make the program compatible with the java midlet managers for WinMo. You should read up on the Mildet Bible: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339579
Hope this helps
From testing open source apps and they ones I have made I found that C++ is faster and c# is easier but a little slower. I used c++ for along time but have moved on to C# and love it.
u can just develop in any .net language, then use tool like SmartAssembly to optimize and convert the code to binary.
jonnycat26 said:
Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, I strongly recomend to use c++ for winmo dev.
cheers,
Hlov
The fastest and leanest method is C++, available in Visual Studio Professional, or as a standalone free download as Embedded C++ version 4. The development models are MFC, (Microsoft Foundation Classes), ATL (Active Template Library), or good old fashioned WIN32.
Of these WIN32 is the leanest, all the others, including .NET are wrappers around it. If you haven't used or seen WIN32 before, expect a pretty steep learning curve. Look at the Hello World example it generates, to try and figure out what the hell is going on. Basically you respond to WM_XXXXXX messages fired at your application by the operating system. Limit the main menu to two items, and WinMo 5/6 will display it correctly, with the main menu options either side of the keyboard/SIP icon, and accessible by the left and right menu buttons. Otherwise it will switch to a WM 2002/3 menubar, which you then have to click on to use.
If you want to go any lower down than this, you will need to brush up your ARM assembly language.
Unless you are developing graphics intensive applications, using c# is fine for applications. C++ is necessary if you are writing games and the like but the SLIGHT performance decrease is not that big of a deal otherwise.
Soul_Est said:
You can still stick with j2me, you'll just have to change a few things to make the program compatible with the java midlet managers for WinMo. You should read up on the Mildet Bible: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339579
Hope this helps
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I'm using J2ME polish, so I can (and have) built a build specifically for WinMo, but I want a native version so I can multitask (can't do that with Esmertec) and I'd also like to develop a homescreen plugin.
My app is here:
http://www.buildhigh.com/jonnychat/
If anyone has any suggestions on what I should do with a port, I'd love to hear them.
stephj said:
The fastest and leanest method is C++, available in Visual Studio Professional, or as a standalone free download as Embedded C++ version 4. The development models are MFC, (Microsoft Foundation Classes), ATL (Active Template Library), or good old fashioned WIN32.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been a long time since I've done standard Win32 development, and I really don't plan on going back down that road again. For starters, I imagine Visual Studio would be a dog in a VM (I only run windows in a VM these days, won't run it on actual hardware if I can avoid it).
It's looking like I"m going to try C++ or C# for this. I'd like to do C# because that's pretty close to Java, but I also have moral qualms about using a language designed to usurp a good and popular language just because MSFT didn't develop it.
Decisions, Decisions....
You can also try using Ruby with the Rhodes framework: http://www.rhomobile.com/home
Or you can try using Mysaifu which may allow multitasking (haven't tried any of my programs on it yet): http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html