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Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.
ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/
I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.
Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open
The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.
Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.
Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.
give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.
Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes
Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806
@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.
do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...
"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).
Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.
@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.
What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.
I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.
laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
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No and definitely no.
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.
OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
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Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
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Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
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So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
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If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
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Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
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Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
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You mean lock-in?
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello
I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.
Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
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Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!
laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
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Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4
@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?
Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
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Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
I think option 1.
would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.
aenedor said:
I think option 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.
homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).
I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.
Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)
I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.
1 and 2, please not 3.
It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.
I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?
Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.
ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.
1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3
homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ
A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.
The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.
ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...
Hi XDA-Samsung Users,
I've been a member of XDA since Jan last year. I went from owning a Nexus One to a Samsung Galaxy S i9000. The reason for the change was for the better specs and superior hardware of the Samsung Galaxy.
The phone is an incredible piece of machinery, but is severely hampered by the modifications that Samsung makes to the Android OS. I admit that the codec support within TouchWiz is impressive, but too much of the core framework of the phone is inefficient and sluggish.
Even using the latest release of unofficial firmware Samsung, Android 2.2.1 (JPY), there is still the occasional hang and the missing RAM (which is there somewhere, but not for user applications).
Samsung is mostly to blame, but there is also a quality control element that Google should be responsible for.
I have prepared an open letter that I sent to Android via Google Press and then forwarded on to Samsung for their reference. This were all through publicly available channels so will have to filter through customer service centers and the like.
I'm not expecting much, Google appears to use Amazon's customer service approach, "No customer service is good customer service".
But would like to post it here to hopefully get it out into the wilderness.
I tweeted it here http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/27528781828722688
and would appreciate if you agreed with the content to retweet it. Hopefully it should give it a bit more weight.
It would be interesting to get the communities feedback on how mature they believe Android is.
Do they need to keep trying to make everyone happy or can they start to use the weight of their OS to get manufacturers to align the user experience?
Dear Android Team,
I am writing this letter to air my frustrations and to hopefully get some peace of mind that your strategy for Android will resolve some of the main issues plaguing the platform.
I have now been with Android for over 12 months. I used to be an iPhone user, but couldn’t stand the walled garden that Apple put me in. I couldn’t download directly to the phone, replace the messaging app or sync wirelessly. I went to Android because I wanted the freedom to use my phone more as a desktop replacement than as a phone/mp3 player.
When I joined the Android family (January 2010), I started with the Google Nexus One. I was so keen to get into the Android community I didn’t even wait for it to be on sale in Australia to get it, thus I hit eBay and bought it outright.
I was very pleased with the platform but could still see a few rough edges around the Operating System. It had the usability I was looking for but was lacking the polish I had grown use to with Apple. There was good news on the horizon with an Éclair update that would give the already beautiful phone a nudge in the right direction. As I was in Australia and the phone wasn’t here yet, I had to push the update through myself, after seeing how easy this was and getting the feeling of being a little phone hacker, I was hooked, I started preaching Android to the masses. Australia is still building momentum for the platform and it’s taking some time. Most of the major carriers stock between 4-6 Android devices, most of which are low end or outdated in the overseas markets.
I follow all the key players in the industry through Twitter and have a majority of Google News trackers picking up articles with android related words. I have also now converted my Wife to Android (HTC Desire Z, also not available in Aus) and I picked up the Samsung Galaxy S and gave my sister the Nexus One. The problem I face now is that I’ve run out of money and can’t go out and buy a new Android phone just to be up to date with the latest Android OS (Gingerbread), this would also be the case for most consumers. The Nexus S is so similar to my current hardware that I must be able to leverage the extra performance from the update.
But alas, we reach the major problem with the platform. Fragmentation. I’m not referring to the Fragmentation of the various app stores and apps available based on different OS versions but more to the Fragmentation of the OS based on the custom skins and manufacturer update cycles. The open platform that is closed at 2 levels, Manufactures and Carriers. I will continue to buy my phones outright as it gives me the freedom and flexibility to upgrade my plans as better ones become available. This always guarantees that I’m free from the bloatware that is preloaded on most Carrier bought phones and free from 1 of the barriers to the true AOSP experience. The next barrier is one that is running rampant in the interwebs rumour mill at the moment and that’s manufacturer updates and in my case I refer to Samsung.
Samsung Galaxy S phones come loaded with Android 2.1, most of them internationally are running Android 2.2 and just recently as select group of the devices is getting Android 2.2.1. This is now a month after Android 2.3 was released. For Samsung I would consider this largely negligent, considering they had the opportunity to work with Google to build a Google Experience Phone (Nexus S). The specs of this phone are so similar to the Galaxy range that a port shouldn’t be too difficult. I understand that there are a lot of constraints and dependencies in the development cycle that could cause delays as well as manufacturers agendas (mostly in unit sales). It is great that Samsung have sold so many devices globally but at a cost of the user experience as well as potential damages to long term retention.
I understand the Open nature of Android and the push to encourage manufacturers to put there own spin on the platform, but Android is getting bigger and more mature, it doesn’t need to be High school girl bending to the whims and peer pressure from the carriers and manufacturers.
There are a team of Devs in Germany who are working to port CyanogenMod 7 (Gingerbread) to Galaxy S i9000, but these guys have now spent over four months just trying to get through Samsungs drivers. The team didn’t start just to customise the phone but to actually make the phone work properly, I of course refer to the RFS lag issue and Samsungs modification to the framework that slowed it down. The goal of the team is to maximise the potential of the hardware and operating system.
It would be great to see some muscle from Google thrown into the mix, there doesn’t need to be requirements dictated, but maybe ethics encouraged.
There seems to be a few options here:
- Encourage device manufacturers to share their drivers, if it is too sensitive to share at least work with the community to help them do it themselves.
- Start to break down the way the platform is customised so that way the manufactures (Samsung/HTC/Motorola) skin the platform can sit a layer above the core code, thus be a quick implementation/customisation to get their skins working.
- Get each manufacturer to offer the AOSP experience to advanced users. This can be done through an agreement between the user and manufacture that states this will void the warranty and have its own terms and conditions.
- This last one is a long stretch, but how about taking all the manufacturers drivers into a repository, the way Windows do updates. When a new Android version is developed the drivers can be updated or incorporated and be packaged out through the Android SDK.
I may be completely off the mark. I’m not a developer and couldn’t pretend to know what effort is involved at any stage of the process, from building Android to rolling it out into the latest and greatest phone. The one thing I am though is an End User, a person that wants my phone to do more, to get close to being a desktop replacement.
Maybe I’m also being a bit idealistic.
I hope the Android platform continues to flourish and for it to become the Windows of the mobile era.
Sincerely,
Irwin Proud
E: [email protected]
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Click to collapse
It's really an excellent summary. Consider there're even more black sheeps out there. For example Sony Ericcson which ones recently made a statement like Android is their favourite Smartphone OS and left Symbian in Nokias hands.
But we found also the good ones like HTC, which every Manufacturer should have HTC as its Paragon concerning Android Software Development.
Great write-up; I agree 100%
I agree with your post fully, and concur that the Windows Phone 7 model for OS updates is more efficient, and strikes a happy medium between iOS and Android's approach to upgrades. However it is also more restrictive in terms of handset hardware limitations
I suppose the idea is that customers should vote with their wallets and buy from companies with good software and firmware support. The problem with that is a majority of phone users (android or otherwise) are technically savvy enough to take such support into consideration when looking at the latest and greatest fancy phone in a store. We could all buy the Nexus One or Nexus S only, but this too is restrictive to the customer as other phones offer more/different features
my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
What Google should do?
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please allow me to politely disagree. Google can do a lot about this and they have done this also. When I say they have done this - I am talking about not having Market application on Android OSes which come on non-phone hardware.
Google should put similar restrictions for loosley coupled skins, upgradable drivers. I had been giving this a lot of thought lately. I will sum up my thoughts with above letter as above:-
i) Device manufacturer skinning - Google should mandate that it should be just another APK within AOSP and users should be given a choice to turn it off.
ii) Device Drivers - Google should mandate there should be a better way of installing device drivers - similar to what we have in MS Windows (MS Windows is an excellent model of how hardware device should be handled - this lead to the exponential growth Windows is enjoying now).
iii) Android OS Update - If Google can achieve the above two, then the choice to upgrade the OS should be at user discretion. Of course, Google should mandate that there is OTA availble as an option. And obviously this OTA would be served by Google, not by device manufacturers. This would also free up time, effort and cash spent by device manufacturers in upgrading the OS.
So this is in the best of interest of everybody.
These restrictions if put in place, would free us all from this phenomena of running outdated OS.
Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.
Thank you so far for the feedback.
poundesville said:
my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.
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Remember most members of XDA would be a cut above the average user. The reason this letter was written the way it was, was to demonstrate that I am a typical end user. Although I would consider myself leaning slightly to the more advanced side I wrote the letter based on a very general experience of the platform, an experience a lot of consumers would go through.
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
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What am I trying to achieve with this letter?
I really don’t know, but it helps to just get the thoughts out there.
With approximately 300,000 activations daily, I don’t think Android sees the true reflection of how their platform is received.
When the Galaxy range of phones was released in the US, they would have been seen as the closest thing to an iPhone that non-AT&T customers could get. So sales and activations shouldn’t be seen as the indicator of clever consumers or consumers wanting an open platform, but of consumers who wanted an iPhone but for the various reasons didn’t want to go with AT&T.
Remember: The international Samsung Galaxy is the only Android phone I know of that looks more like an iPhone than any other phone.
What I would really like to see is, that annually google will release a major version of Android. So V1, V2, V3, etc…. the mobile manufacturers commit to any minor or incremental updates per major version. So if Google says they are releasing Android 2.4 then they are saying to the manufacturer that this version will also work on any phone that currently supports v2.1 to v2.3.
As more and more people move to smartphones and tablets, more and more will we see hackers, spammers, botnets and so on attempt to access our devices. If we can’t have the latest updates that close any open holes then our phones become a huge liability.
Pierreken said:
Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.
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Not really sure if Samsung has failed as such, but have put too much focus on unit sales rather than quality control and great user experience. They started releasing different iterations and modifications to the same phone without considering that each minor tweak to the hardware would mean more resources to develop updates and maintain each device.
I also agree that without Samsung I would know very little about linux filesystems, kernel and custom roms, but shouldn't all of these be more to push the phone above it's limits and not to just get it working properly?
There's nothing wrong with knowing the advanced stuff, however it shouldn't be a necessity.
The problem ironically is that Android is open source. I agree wit the letter above, but I can;t see how you can stop manufacturers doing what they want.
Also the Drivers being proprietary isn't going to change and device manufacturers aren't going to suddenly start releasing their closed driver sources.
Agreed Google should stand up and restrict the Skins to a single APK that can be removed, this would stop all the associated problems with HTC and Samsung skinning too deep in to the OS that it becomes impossible to remove it. The problem with that is, then any manufacturers APK will be installable on any phone. Which is something we know they don't want.
We already know Androids biggest downfall and so does Google. Fragmentation.
I believe once Google has the strong position they want and users demand Android when they buy a new phone, they will start to put their foot down and try to enforce standardisation across Manufacturers, but until they get to what they feel is that point, we're stuck.
Anyway much luck with the letter, I hope someone who matters get's to see it.
Logicalstep