Hello Xda
i am wondering are we can able to upgrade to windows mobile 6.5 in the future and windows mobile 7 too.
also can we will be able to use multi touch function on hd device?
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
Philio25 said:
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
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You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
tingsagwaan said:
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
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Yer was very close, I heard mixed reviews of the Diamond/Pro so held of upgrading, then the HD popped up on the HTC website so waited for the HD instead!
winmo 7 is said to have hardware requirement of 256MB ROM for the OS. so should be fine.
WinMo 6.5 will probably be less than 256MB ROM too so all go there too.
TOUCH HD should be well future-proofed for WinMo updates (official or otherwise), and then there's the possibility of Android too......
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
There is supposed to be a pre-WM7 release, not sure what else is included but supposedly it will have a better version of the IE browser.
I imagine this may depends on how much WM7 will be a change and needs adjustment from HTC. Like... what will be the touch 3D layer then ?
My bet is, the more we are expecting from WM7 as a breaktthrough in the series the less me may use it on this version of the Touch HD.
Eitum said:
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
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Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
How can you play an instrument like a keyboard without multi touch!
While such a functionality might be an intesting one, it also seems like a step backwards in certain aspects.
Single handed operation is one of the essential aspects of mobile phones.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches
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would be fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
multi-touch on windows mobile on HTC diamond.....just not in the way you may expect.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
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No correction needed, this is 100% true. Touchscreens do not register clicks, or anything similar, the screen itself is nothing but a sensor. The screen sensor layer on the HD screen registers any surface part of the screen on which the pressure exceeds a given threshold and the output is translated by a driver into anything the OS uses for manipulation. Thus, theoretically, ANY touchscreen device can be multitouch.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
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Many of the more objective iPhone users have indicated that multitouch should not be overrated. It is nice for picture viewing, but in practical terms such as with a browser, it can be frustrating to see people zooming in to 100% with a swift doubletap while the iPhone users themselves are having to place two fingers on the screen, prevent accidentally using your nails, and having to squeeze/pinch until the page looks right.
BUT... I for one believe that more natural forms of input, i.e. a Keyboard, REQUIRES multitouch to function 100% intuitively. You simply do not need to release your finger from one key in order to press another, and a singletouch screen does require this. This causes lots of mistakes when typing too fast, you have to be over-articulate while typing.
Then again, I see most iPhone users typing with one thumb even when sitting down and holding the phone with both hands, because it's their first smartphone Not fair... WinMo pro's should have received this years ago
Oops I am straying from objectivity here...
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Muhamed said:
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
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No it's not.
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Nara-e-Mastana said:
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
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from the youtube video info:
Device: HTC Touch (elf)
Skin name: Windows Mobile 7 i3
(i3 = 3 interface)
Skin version: QVGA
was it really that hard to read? the info was RIGHT THERE.
where to find
Out of curiosity where do we find this skin? all I can find is that youtube video. At the moment I'm getting a little bored with my current ROM and right now am looking for a new replacement look on my vogue.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
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Just another confirmation of this. Synaptics, the maker of most touchpads for laptops, released driver updates for laptops to include multi-touch pinching, gestures, zooming, and Chiral(circular) scrolling - These were for touchpads that could previous only do what WinMo does with multiple touches.
So, as everyone said, you're right. If the manufacturers wanted to, they *could* give us multi-touch, but WinMo doesn't have an implementation of that anyway so it's useless.
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/05/04/dogfood-doesn-t-always-taste-good.aspx
chaosdefinesorder said:
(...)
so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
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specially for hd which has almost no hardware buttons multitouch would be a nice feature videogame-wise... like shooting while running or steering while accelerating...
btw check out the blackstone rom development forum a custom rom with winmo6.5 beta has been released already. Just for testing purposes only though.
I'm not really knowledgeable enough to actually dive down into the hardware and see exactly how multitouch inputs are registered, but after using a couple of multitouch enabled programs on my N1, namely Pong Multi Touch and Ethereal Dialpad (installing the NightSky multitouch-enabled dialpad), it seems as though the N1 registers multitouch inputs the same as (at least) the G1 and myTouch (I don't have access to any other multitouch-enabled Android devices to test).
That is, the screen is aware of 2 x and 2 y values, with snapping and both the x and y, and it's up to the OS to try to determine which x goes with which y.
In Pong Multi Touch, sometimes the paddles will switch fingers -- that is, the finger over the right paddle starts controlling the left paddle and vice versa -- when the paddles cross each other's line of sight.
In NightSky dialpad, you're actually given two blobs corresponding to your multitouch inputs, and like in the first multitouch demos by Luke Hutchinson on the G1, sometimes the points get confused and inhabit the opposite "corners" of where your fingers actually are.
It's possible that this is a software limitation and actually put into place for older Android devices whose screens operated this way, but I just really hate to think that in a world of true multitouch screens, the Nexus One might still be using that same flaws multitouch technology.
Does anyone have any experience with how say the Droid handles multitouch inputs? Does anyone have a better understanding of the Nexus One's touchscreen? I've searched this forum and Google, but I haven't really been able to wade through and pick something useful out.
Multitouch pinch to zoom is nice and all, but I mainly am looking forward to it in games to get the kind of experience the iPhone has been delivering with onscreen dpads and buttons. It's the kind of thing necessary to play Nesoid and others on the Nexus One.
There's a game in the market called ToonWarz Lite that tries to implement exactly that; the left side is a dpad and the right side is buttons and look direction. Problem is... it doesn't really work that well. It doesn't seem to track two fingers consistently, especially if the two touch points "cross" the same axis. The game looks pretty great, but control is still a mess in my opinion. I'm hoping it will/can improve.
Is this a limitation in hardware? SDK? Just bad design? Is it that clumsy on an iPhone too (I've never used one)? I know multitouch is supported, but I'm just concerned if there are still hardware limitations preventing it from working as well as I wish it would.
Android has supported multitouch for a long time. We're just now getting Google Apps w/ multitouch...that is all.
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Deathwish238 said:
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
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That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
dudinatrix said:
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
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The last time I looked at the source for MTV it was using the "old style" of MT where it would infer the locations of the two fingers based on the "size" of the primary touch. This was the closest you could get back on 1.6 which lacked the true MT APIs. Also, this method involved a heuristic to determine when there was more than one touch - I think the size had to go over a threshold before it would try to decode the multiple touches. All in all it looked a lot like voodoo to me and I wasn't surprised by how flaky the results were, especially when crossing axes.
In 2.0 they now report each touch independently with its own size and pressure. I was going to hack the MTV app to do true multi-touch, but I never got around to it. Did you find a version of it that is "True MT" or is it still the same old original version that was doing it the old way?
The reason I got this tablet was to play dungeon defenders but I can't play it because this isn't multi touch, will that Xbox Tom change that or will someone make multi touch work on this tablet or should I just sell this to buy the new elocity a10 tablet?
Does no one read existing threads before making new ones?
The screen on the current model A7 is not a multi touch screen. This is a hardware limitation, not a software limitation.
So I guess go ahead and sell it. If the price is fair I'll take it off your hands.
Well would that guy make a mod to make dungeon defenders work with the xbox remote?
optimaljam said:
Well would that guy make a mod to make dungeon defenders work with the xbox remote?
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Wouldn't be surprised if it already works with it.
Hm...well i have his rom right now, i guess i just need to buy a wired xbox remote or that pc xbox reciver
I heard it was only a software glitch that needed to be worked out. Much like the original droid. It didnt have multi-touch until they released an update.
I site my source on this statement here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CvY8jzyCWI
kenfly said:
I heard it was only a software glitch that needed to be worked out. Much like the original droid. It didnt have multi-touch until they released an update.
I site my source on this statement here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CvY8jzyCWI
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The controller does not support true multi touch. It is not a software "glitch".
the very limited pinch to zoom we have is a weak example of the gestures support of the controller, period.
This has been confirmed by the manufacturer and backed up by the datasheet on the contoller itself.
Let's build a car with a Mustang 5.0 supercharged engine but with 3 wheels, w00t !
Seems Stream rushed this to market and tried to offer the most value with parts available at the time. They gambled the screen would not be as important as processor ram etc. A gamble we will be paying for.
That said I can't completely blame them. They did not know 3.0 requirements when they designed this tab.
I think you will see a big shift of tab companies charging crazy prices as 3.0 gets released.
$300 tabs with tegra and capacitive screen are not going to exist when 3.0 is out. Then once the dust settles they will release the $300 tabs again but for now it is all so new they feel justified in charging more. I would apply the opposite logic with ipad 2 coming out soon..
As far as this tab is pretty sweet. What I would like to know is how much would it cost to swap out the screen for a multi touch installed? If it was around$100 I would do it. Shouldnt we either try to hhck 3.0 to work with the tab as it is or change the hardware if possible..
Rob
I had previously written about Missing feature: 802.11n
And it's been written multiple times that the e-compass is broken in mango.
But I think there might be yet another missing feature: I think the VP supports more then the 4 touch points it currently has.
Background:
The V and the VP are known to be (mostly) hardware identical.
The V and the S7 both use an Atmel mxT224, which supports 10(?) touch points
The V and the S7 only currently support 2 touch points, as they badly mangled the drivers and broke 3+ point support
The VP supports 4 touch points
The VP has an Atmel controller (but I cannot confirm it's a mxT224)
If it really does have a mxT224, it could potentially support up to 10 points in hardware(?).
Microsoft requires 4 points minimum to be WP7 compatable, and that's exactly what we have.
I would assume they would allow more then 4 if the HW supports it, but ours does at the hardware(?) level but not at the software(?) level.
I'd say the next avenue of investigation into this would be finding out if other Windows Phones support greater than four touch points, or if the minimum spec of four touch points has become the de factor standard, since it's the lowest common denominator app developers can expect. You could investigate this further on the Samsung Focus and the HTC HD2 development forums, where most Windows Phone development has taken place. In the case of the Samsung Focus, you'd have plenty of first-generation Galaxy S Android phones to compare it to (vibrant,fascinate,captivate,etc) and in the case of the HTC HD2, you'd actually have Windows Phone and Android running on the same hardware.