Multitouch pinch to zoom is nice and all, but I mainly am looking forward to it in games to get the kind of experience the iPhone has been delivering with onscreen dpads and buttons. It's the kind of thing necessary to play Nesoid and others on the Nexus One.
There's a game in the market called ToonWarz Lite that tries to implement exactly that; the left side is a dpad and the right side is buttons and look direction. Problem is... it doesn't really work that well. It doesn't seem to track two fingers consistently, especially if the two touch points "cross" the same axis. The game looks pretty great, but control is still a mess in my opinion. I'm hoping it will/can improve.
Is this a limitation in hardware? SDK? Just bad design? Is it that clumsy on an iPhone too (I've never used one)? I know multitouch is supported, but I'm just concerned if there are still hardware limitations preventing it from working as well as I wish it would.
Android has supported multitouch for a long time. We're just now getting Google Apps w/ multitouch...that is all.
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Deathwish238 said:
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
dudinatrix said:
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The last time I looked at the source for MTV it was using the "old style" of MT where it would infer the locations of the two fingers based on the "size" of the primary touch. This was the closest you could get back on 1.6 which lacked the true MT APIs. Also, this method involved a heuristic to determine when there was more than one touch - I think the size had to go over a threshold before it would try to decode the multiple touches. All in all it looked a lot like voodoo to me and I wasn't surprised by how flaky the results were, especially when crossing axes.
In 2.0 they now report each touch independently with its own size and pressure. I was going to hack the MTV app to do true multi-touch, but I never got around to it. Did you find a version of it that is "True MT" or is it still the same old original version that was doing it the old way?
Related
Hello Xda
i am wondering are we can able to upgrade to windows mobile 6.5 in the future and windows mobile 7 too.
also can we will be able to use multi touch function on hd device?
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
Philio25 said:
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
tingsagwaan said:
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yer was very close, I heard mixed reviews of the Diamond/Pro so held of upgrading, then the HD popped up on the HTC website so waited for the HD instead!
winmo 7 is said to have hardware requirement of 256MB ROM for the OS. so should be fine.
WinMo 6.5 will probably be less than 256MB ROM too so all go there too.
TOUCH HD should be well future-proofed for WinMo updates (official or otherwise), and then there's the possibility of Android too......
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
There is supposed to be a pre-WM7 release, not sure what else is included but supposedly it will have a better version of the IE browser.
I imagine this may depends on how much WM7 will be a change and needs adjustment from HTC. Like... what will be the touch 3D layer then ?
My bet is, the more we are expecting from WM7 as a breaktthrough in the series the less me may use it on this version of the Touch HD.
Eitum said:
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
How can you play an instrument like a keyboard without multi touch!
While such a functionality might be an intesting one, it also seems like a step backwards in certain aspects.
Single handed operation is one of the essential aspects of mobile phones.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would be fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
multi-touch on windows mobile on HTC diamond.....just not in the way you may expect.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No correction needed, this is 100% true. Touchscreens do not register clicks, or anything similar, the screen itself is nothing but a sensor. The screen sensor layer on the HD screen registers any surface part of the screen on which the pressure exceeds a given threshold and the output is translated by a driver into anything the OS uses for manipulation. Thus, theoretically, ANY touchscreen device can be multitouch.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many of the more objective iPhone users have indicated that multitouch should not be overrated. It is nice for picture viewing, but in practical terms such as with a browser, it can be frustrating to see people zooming in to 100% with a swift doubletap while the iPhone users themselves are having to place two fingers on the screen, prevent accidentally using your nails, and having to squeeze/pinch until the page looks right.
BUT... I for one believe that more natural forms of input, i.e. a Keyboard, REQUIRES multitouch to function 100% intuitively. You simply do not need to release your finger from one key in order to press another, and a singletouch screen does require this. This causes lots of mistakes when typing too fast, you have to be over-articulate while typing.
Then again, I see most iPhone users typing with one thumb even when sitting down and holding the phone with both hands, because it's their first smartphone Not fair... WinMo pro's should have received this years ago
Oops I am straying from objectivity here...
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Muhamed said:
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not.
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Nara-e-Mastana said:
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the youtube video info:
Device: HTC Touch (elf)
Skin name: Windows Mobile 7 i3
(i3 = 3 interface)
Skin version: QVGA
was it really that hard to read? the info was RIGHT THERE.
where to find
Out of curiosity where do we find this skin? all I can find is that youtube video. At the moment I'm getting a little bored with my current ROM and right now am looking for a new replacement look on my vogue.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just another confirmation of this. Synaptics, the maker of most touchpads for laptops, released driver updates for laptops to include multi-touch pinching, gestures, zooming, and Chiral(circular) scrolling - These were for touchpads that could previous only do what WinMo does with multiple touches.
So, as everyone said, you're right. If the manufacturers wanted to, they *could* give us multi-touch, but WinMo doesn't have an implementation of that anyway so it's useless.
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/05/04/dogfood-doesn-t-always-taste-good.aspx
chaosdefinesorder said:
(...)
so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
specially for hd which has almost no hardware buttons multitouch would be a nice feature videogame-wise... like shooting while running or steering while accelerating...
btw check out the blackstone rom development forum a custom rom with winmo6.5 beta has been released already. Just for testing purposes only though.
I'm not really knowledgeable enough to actually dive down into the hardware and see exactly how multitouch inputs are registered, but after using a couple of multitouch enabled programs on my N1, namely Pong Multi Touch and Ethereal Dialpad (installing the NightSky multitouch-enabled dialpad), it seems as though the N1 registers multitouch inputs the same as (at least) the G1 and myTouch (I don't have access to any other multitouch-enabled Android devices to test).
That is, the screen is aware of 2 x and 2 y values, with snapping and both the x and y, and it's up to the OS to try to determine which x goes with which y.
In Pong Multi Touch, sometimes the paddles will switch fingers -- that is, the finger over the right paddle starts controlling the left paddle and vice versa -- when the paddles cross each other's line of sight.
In NightSky dialpad, you're actually given two blobs corresponding to your multitouch inputs, and like in the first multitouch demos by Luke Hutchinson on the G1, sometimes the points get confused and inhabit the opposite "corners" of where your fingers actually are.
It's possible that this is a software limitation and actually put into place for older Android devices whose screens operated this way, but I just really hate to think that in a world of true multitouch screens, the Nexus One might still be using that same flaws multitouch technology.
Does anyone have any experience with how say the Droid handles multitouch inputs? Does anyone have a better understanding of the Nexus One's touchscreen? I've searched this forum and Google, but I haven't really been able to wade through and pick something useful out.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/08/...brings-opengl-es-2-0-access-to-devs/#comments
Hopefully this will bring some great games and maybe have google allow us to install to SD card to fit more games.
woop woop!!! can't wait to see what comes out of this. wow android is growing at such a fast paced, around the time it took iphone 3 years to do. After seeing Exzeus arcade this only gets me more excited to see what they can squeeze out of my N1
Kutthoat5150 said:
woop woop!!! can't wait to see what comes out of this. wow android is growing at such a fast paced, around the time it took iphone 3 years to do. After seeing Exzeus arcade this only gets me more excited to see what they can squeeze out of my N1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. would love to show off what this device can really do.
If only HTC hadn't completely screwed all their multitouch sensors. That really takes all the fun out off this news.
PlanetJumble said:
If only HTC hadn't completely screwed all their multitouch sensors. That really takes all the fun out off this news.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how screwed up are they really?
also would be nice to finally have some stuff that shows off what the nexus can do
malicious85 said:
how screwed up are they really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much, at least for gaming. As being hinted out by Cyanogen, the issue with the switched axis can be resolved by a software filter. But still, when the two touches are close together on one axis (like, horizontally alligned but far distanced on the edges, as in most multitouch gaming controlls trying to emulate a gamepad) the two touches "snap together magnetically", resulting in semi random controlls.
The only workaround i could think off is placing the virtual directional buttons in the lower corner and the action buttons in the upper (or vice versa). That would make controlls awkward, but at least lets the multitouch sensors do their work.
Or just play it on a Motorola Droid/Milestone, because the Non-Superphone features proper sensors. :/
any word if bejeweled blitz will developed based on opengl? i would love to have blitz on my android. to me thats the only win win thing between my iphone friends. ahahah
OpenGL isn't the issue for games like Bejeweled, just that PopCap doesn't seem interested in the Android platform just yet.
Also, developers can store their assets on the SD card already if they feel the need (ExZeus for example)
Nice mention of Exzeus, which does fit the 63+Mb needed entirely on the SD.
Nice thought !
It's only a matter of time now to see much improved Android games.
Cheers !
PlanetJumble said:
Pretty much, at least for gaming. As being hinted out by Cyanogen, the issue with the switched axis can be resolved by a software filter. But still, when the two touches are close together on one axis (like, horizontally alligned but far distanced on the edges, as in most multitouch gaming controlls trying to emulate a gamepad) the two touches "snap together magnetically", resulting in semi random controlls.
The only workaround i could think off is placing the virtual directional buttons in the lower corner and the action buttons in the upper (or vice versa). That would make controlls awkward, but at least lets the multitouch sensors do their work.
Or just play it on a Motorola Droid/Milestone, because the Non-Superphone features proper sensors. :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that sucks. I thought even though HTC was the one who assembled the device, Google still had the final say on what hardware to use on their flagship nexus one?
I hope Google deliver some Divx codecs soon too.
Its all getting a bit hard. May have to go back to my HD2 to watch movies
One thing that worries me about the HD2 is the touchscreen sensors. If it's just the same ones as the Nexus One, Synaptics CP2000 with faulty multitouch, I might have to reconsider my options.
It does have true multitouch. Youtube it there are a bunch of videos out there.
After seeing YT videos, it looks like the same wonky multitouch in Nexus One. I'm disappointed
What is it you find "wonky" about it
No it's not. Some of the first run HD2s had some bad sensors, but we don't have any trouble crossing streams or whatever you N1 kids call it nowadays.
Like in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTqh6u2OUFU
Sometimes it jumps all over the place.
And in here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgrsq2-Vy7Q&feature=channel
It sometimes sticks when you're near the same axis.
The sticking is an auto-align in the driver.
Is there a way to turn that off? Does it support more than 2 fingers?
The limitation is currently the way the HTC code sends the data to other applications. It may be possible to get more points with a lower level hook, though I haven't yet gone that far as I want to investigate what can be done so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in Nov, guess they got lazy
Not sure about turning it off.
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
As you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhUzq6bTPg&feature=player_embedded
The N1 multi-touch issue is very pronounced and extremely different.
I just grabbed both Scilor and |3v5y apps for multitouch.
In the Scilor app (with two circles) you can see a clear snap when you are on the same x or y axis, but again this is driver behavior. Nothing unusual besides that.
In the |3v5y app, the x axis doesn't show any snapping, but crossing on the y axis (possibly a coding error?) swaps the 'paint stream' under the fingers, but still keeps with original positions.
This is similar to the droid on the youtube video above, where the blue and red dot might flip, but it doesn't lose track of what is being touched. Thus, not the same problem as the N1. Not the same sensor. Hurray, hurrah.
ahimberg said:
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. HD2 2-point multitouch is a driver (soft) limitation, if you read what I just quoted.
On that note does anyone know what sensor HD2 uses?
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multi touch is app dependent, some apps dont support it, open up google maps and pinch to zoom
Multi touch works fine for me. Nothing like the shennaigans of the Nexus One. Downloaded multitouch visulaizer 2 - my touch screen can detect 5 points of touch at once!
Edit - I see what you mean on sliceit. Sometimes if you put down 2 fingers simultaneously, it will lose the track on one of the fingers. All you have to do is lift that finger and put it back down again and it regains track.
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed that with Slice It! too and was messing around investigating it. Also, I think it's the app's issue, since I've never had any other problems with multi-touch anywhere else.
sound like more of a bug with some specific Apps rather than a hardware issue.
as the multitouch test apps works just fine, if it were a hardware problem those test apps should be failing as well.
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. back then they used thinkpad2000 or something like that. forgot the same. wasnt real one " much like what Sony is doing with xperia x10" right now
the nexus s has true multi touch.
On the subject do any of you guys have problems with zoom in your photo galleries. When ever i try to pinch to zoom in for example to someones face it will start to zoom somewhere else. Don't know if its just my phone or everyones.
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Slightly off topic, but in the Gallery app in the Album thumbnail section, you can two-finger press an album and spread your fingers and it'll give you a mini-slide show right there. Very impressive.
hungyip84 said:
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never heard of a screen that has a multi touch problem as in hardware issue.
but try different nexus S. if its doing the same thing then your phone is fine.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple patented a specific method for implementing multi-touch... part of it is UI, which was only granted in the US, and part was technical... in either case, there are new ways of doing multi touch in technical terms, and as for UI Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "generic" actions like pinch to zoom, et al.
Some ppl in thus thread also experience the same problem. To me this is not a acceptable multi touch experience. I hope this can be fixed by an firmware update.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App