One thing that worries me about the HD2 is the touchscreen sensors. If it's just the same ones as the Nexus One, Synaptics CP2000 with faulty multitouch, I might have to reconsider my options.
It does have true multitouch. Youtube it there are a bunch of videos out there.
After seeing YT videos, it looks like the same wonky multitouch in Nexus One. I'm disappointed
What is it you find "wonky" about it
No it's not. Some of the first run HD2s had some bad sensors, but we don't have any trouble crossing streams or whatever you N1 kids call it nowadays.
Like in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTqh6u2OUFU
Sometimes it jumps all over the place.
And in here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgrsq2-Vy7Q&feature=channel
It sometimes sticks when you're near the same axis.
The sticking is an auto-align in the driver.
Is there a way to turn that off? Does it support more than 2 fingers?
The limitation is currently the way the HTC code sends the data to other applications. It may be possible to get more points with a lower level hook, though I haven't yet gone that far as I want to investigate what can be done so far
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Back in Nov, guess they got lazy
Not sure about turning it off.
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
As you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhUzq6bTPg&feature=player_embedded
The N1 multi-touch issue is very pronounced and extremely different.
I just grabbed both Scilor and |3v5y apps for multitouch.
In the Scilor app (with two circles) you can see a clear snap when you are on the same x or y axis, but again this is driver behavior. Nothing unusual besides that.
In the |3v5y app, the x axis doesn't show any snapping, but crossing on the y axis (possibly a coding error?) swaps the 'paint stream' under the fingers, but still keeps with original positions.
This is similar to the droid on the youtube video above, where the blue and red dot might flip, but it doesn't lose track of what is being touched. Thus, not the same problem as the N1. Not the same sensor. Hurray, hurrah.
ahimberg said:
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
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Not true. HD2 2-point multitouch is a driver (soft) limitation, if you read what I just quoted.
On that note does anyone know what sensor HD2 uses?
Related
Multitouch pinch to zoom is nice and all, but I mainly am looking forward to it in games to get the kind of experience the iPhone has been delivering with onscreen dpads and buttons. It's the kind of thing necessary to play Nesoid and others on the Nexus One.
There's a game in the market called ToonWarz Lite that tries to implement exactly that; the left side is a dpad and the right side is buttons and look direction. Problem is... it doesn't really work that well. It doesn't seem to track two fingers consistently, especially if the two touch points "cross" the same axis. The game looks pretty great, but control is still a mess in my opinion. I'm hoping it will/can improve.
Is this a limitation in hardware? SDK? Just bad design? Is it that clumsy on an iPhone too (I've never used one)? I know multitouch is supported, but I'm just concerned if there are still hardware limitations preventing it from working as well as I wish it would.
Android has supported multitouch for a long time. We're just now getting Google Apps w/ multitouch...that is all.
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Deathwish238 said:
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
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That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
dudinatrix said:
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
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The last time I looked at the source for MTV it was using the "old style" of MT where it would infer the locations of the two fingers based on the "size" of the primary touch. This was the closest you could get back on 1.6 which lacked the true MT APIs. Also, this method involved a heuristic to determine when there was more than one touch - I think the size had to go over a threshold before it would try to decode the multiple touches. All in all it looked a lot like voodoo to me and I wasn't surprised by how flaky the results were, especially when crossing axes.
In 2.0 they now report each touch independently with its own size and pressure. I was going to hack the MTV app to do true multi-touch, but I never got around to it. Did you find a version of it that is "True MT" or is it still the same old original version that was doing it the old way?
http://androidandme.com/2010/03/news/is-multitouch-broken-on-the-nexus-one/
I hope this is a problem that can be fixed. Although it appears to be a hardware issue according to a Google engineer.
I have a Nexus One.
puuh..I read this..and I dont like to read it again, not even think of it
I downloaded the app, and it's not as bad on mine as his. The issue mine kept having was that it would snap to the grid line of the other touch point, and then it would start losing track of the original touch point. So if touch point 1 y intersected with touch point 2 x it would snap to X and then I could slide along X and the dot would not follow.
The touch panel in the N1 is a Synaptics ClearPad 2000 Series. No more than two points can register at once. It supports pinch zoom and pivot. The problem with axis flipping looks like a driver issue.
Does anyone know what the droid touchscreen uses?
Ouch. I don't like looking at it but ultimately I'd don't believe its enough to detour me from getting a nexus one. Mostly I'd us it for pinch zoom browsing and looking at images. Does suck if you try to play games though.
About the only real use for a "proper" multi-touch screen would be games.
However, this may also mean that the "palm-wrap" problem will never go away. :/
Does anybody know if the desire has the same panel?
I believe so, yes, as the Desire is also made by HTC.
This video and the reply from Google makes me think that this could be related to the screen and touch issues that we have been seeing with the HD2:
http://androidandme.com/2010/03/news/is-multitouch-broken-on-the-nexus-one/
Looks like it's down to the quality of the sensor that HTC have used on their devices and I doubt that they did anything different with the HD2. The larger screen may have just made the problem more apparent.
EDIT: Added links to the two main threads on the HD2 Screen problems below.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=595655
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=617380&page=5
Yup looks messed upto me on the Nexus, the Driod has a better screen or something according to Google (well worded differently ;p) maybe thats why theres confusion about the HD2 geting a WP7S upgrade as it requires a 4 point mutlitouch screen or something.
DMAND said:
Yup looks messed upto me on the Nexus, the Driod has a better screen or something according to Google (well worded differently ;p) maybe thats why theres confusion about the HD2 geting a WP7S upgrade as it requires a 4 point mutlitouch screen or something.
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4point multitouch screen is a software support not hardware
This looks like driver issue. Bad code. No faulty hardware as it is in case of HD2. I bet it would affect all Nexuses .. unlike on HD2 (for example mine is perfect).
Multitouch sensor can detect if any point on the screen is touched or not (with some resolution, rather poor actually).
The driver must find 'islands' of touched points of some minimal size, then compute center of that 'island' and that is the 'touched point'. Problem is there is a lot of noise coming from all the sensor, and lot of averaging and smoothing comes into play. On droid you can see how the points merge a bit earlier then you would expect, that is because of this. Also it is understandable that the sensor can't distinguish which point was which after the merge.
On Nexus there is clearly some rather more simple implementation of these algorithms, or they contain serious bug. Good think is that I believe it is totally fixable on the software side.
Dr.Sid said:
This looks like driver issue. Bad code. No faulty hardware as it is in case of HD2. I bet it would affect all Nexuses .. unlike on HD2 (for example mine is perfect).
Multitouch sensor can detect if any point on the screen is touched or not (with some resolution, rather poor actually).
The driver must find 'islands' of touched points of some minimal size, then compute center of that 'island' and that is the 'touched point'. Problem is there is a lot of noise coming from all the sensor, and lot of averaging and smoothing comes into play. On droid you can see how the points merge a bit earlier then you would expect, that is because of this. Also it is understandable that the sensor can't distinguish which point was which after the merge.
On Nexus there is clearly some rather more simple implementation of these algorithms, or they contain serious bug. Good think is that I believe it is totally fixable on the software side.
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but does the hd2 has proper drivers ,and another question (does the shaking screen when zooming is hardware isse )
Im not sure its real multitouch on the HD2 rather pinch to zoom, seems to be implemented the same way on the Nexus
sorry if this was mentioned before, but i cant seem to find any related threads on hd2 forum, anyways here it goes
does anyone else find the hd2 handles multi touch really poorly compared to some other smartphones out there? like the iphone and samsung galaxy s. this is especially obvious when the two point are close to each other in either axis, which is demonstrated by the video attached below (not by me!), although htc desire is used in the video, i can replicate the same response on my hd2 easily
so my question is, is the htc hd2 hardware 'imperfect' or is it the driver for the touch screen the one that is causing the problem, cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVlsRCMltDg
edit: forgot to mention, what i mean by hd2 handles multi touch really poorly is when the 2 touches are close to each other in either axis, the hd2 sort of just merge the two axis, although they are not exactly in the same line!
Ill take the hd2 off your hands.
the touch panel is capable of it.... just bad drivers.... htc is known for f*cking good hardware with ****ty drivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD3cWrTuEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IkVp3uWtE&feature=related
polo735 said:
Ill take the hd2 off your hands.
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haha you wish
JJbdoggg said:
the touch panel is capable of it.... just bad drivers.... htc is known for f*cking good hardware with ****ty drivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD3cWrTuEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IkVp3uWtE&feature=related
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i see, hope there will be a fix in the future, because HD2 is one of the most capable smartphone ever... kind of unfortunate when the software cant utilize its full potential!
It.s a known old problem on the HD2. It was a long hard debate that HD2 can only ,,pinch-to-zoom,,. HTC implemented the drivers to use the device just for pinching. There are some workarounds on WM 6.5 to use the MT (look at fpsece) but if you refer to android (games i assume) you will experience weird behavior on the HD2.
snowblindd said:
It.s a known old problem on the HD2. It was a long hard debate that HD2 can only ,,pinch-to-zoom,,. HTC implemented the drivers to use the device just for pinching. There are some workarounds on WM 6.5 to use the MT (look at fpsece) but if you refer to android (games i assume) you will experience weird behavior on the HD2.
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Click to collapse
Dont see the problem personally, unless you are expecting three point touch. Trying one of the multi touch test apps in Android, it works fine... are you referring to the snapping when the points approach orthogonal? or maybe mixing it up with this: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/326530/htc_hd2_leo_lacks_universal_multitouch.html
...which clearly is untrue.
Real multitouch?
HTC HD2 have Synaptics Clearpad 2000 - work only with two fingers.
So there is no chance to see real multitouch on HD2 :/
Producent page : http://www.synaptics.com/sites/default/files/Product_Brief_CP2000_01_0.pdf
HTC Evo 4G have new touch panel - Atmel MaxTouch mxt224 - UNLIMITED FINGERS!
@UP :
This videos don't show new drivers . It's practically impossible to write new drivers by normal person.
Even with 2 fingers MT does not work as it should, actually HD2 is capable only to ,,pinch-and-zoom,, (as i said there are some work-arounds but you can.t compare evo or iphone MT with HD2)
adamvanner said:
Trying one of the multi touch test apps in Android, it works fine...
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it works, thats about it. the biggest problem i've had so far is when the two touches are quite close on the y axis, e.g. using a multi-touch keyboard, when i type o immediately after a, sometimes the o is registered as k or l, because the os somehow merges the two touches vertically, so they seem to be on the same horizontal line (sorry if i didnt explain this properly, but i think the video i've attached above should make this clear)
One thing that I noticed when using MultiTouch Visualizer 2 (free on Market) was that touch point 1 and touch point 2 would flip when using any Nexus builds. It is most apparent when touching between diagonal corners. Desire builds will show the two touch points recognized correctly. If anyone is having problems with Nexus builds, try this out. It may be part of the reason for your multitouch problems.
frostmourne said:
it works, thats about it. the biggest problem i've had so far is when the two touches are quite close on the y axis, e.g. using a multi-touch keyboard, when i type o immediately after a, sometimes the o is registered as k or l, because the os somehow merges the two touches vertically, so they seem to be on the same horizontal line (sorry if i didnt explain this properly, but i think the video i've attached above should make this clear)
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Click to collapse
i get this too if i type very fast only it happenes to me everywhere on the keyboard
the hd2 doesn't have the clearpad 2000 , i asked htc themselves , it is used in nexus and desire not hd2 , that is why we don't have the axe problems that they face , and the 2 point multitouch is a driver limitation as htc said to me
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
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Click to collapse
Multi touch is app dependent, some apps dont support it, open up google maps and pinch to zoom
Multi touch works fine for me. Nothing like the shennaigans of the Nexus One. Downloaded multitouch visulaizer 2 - my touch screen can detect 5 points of touch at once!
Edit - I see what you mean on sliceit. Sometimes if you put down 2 fingers simultaneously, it will lose the track on one of the fingers. All you have to do is lift that finger and put it back down again and it regains track.
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed that with Slice It! too and was messing around investigating it. Also, I think it's the app's issue, since I've never had any other problems with multi-touch anywhere else.
sound like more of a bug with some specific Apps rather than a hardware issue.
as the multitouch test apps works just fine, if it were a hardware problem those test apps should be failing as well.
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
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Click to collapse
No. back then they used thinkpad2000 or something like that. forgot the same. wasnt real one " much like what Sony is doing with xperia x10" right now
the nexus s has true multi touch.
On the subject do any of you guys have problems with zoom in your photo galleries. When ever i try to pinch to zoom in for example to someones face it will start to zoom somewhere else. Don't know if its just my phone or everyones.
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Slightly off topic, but in the Gallery app in the Album thumbnail section, you can two-finger press an album and spread your fingers and it'll give you a mini-slide show right there. Very impressive.
hungyip84 said:
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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Click to collapse
i never heard of a screen that has a multi touch problem as in hardware issue.
but try different nexus S. if its doing the same thing then your phone is fine.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple patented a specific method for implementing multi-touch... part of it is UI, which was only granted in the US, and part was technical... in either case, there are new ways of doing multi touch in technical terms, and as for UI Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "generic" actions like pinch to zoom, et al.
Some ppl in thus thread also experience the same problem. To me this is not a acceptable multi touch experience. I hope this can be fixed by an firmware update.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App