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I asked the police today about the legality of tracking etc your phone if stolen using wavesecure or similar in the UK.
The particular officer seemed to think it should not be a problem since it is your property and regardless of who's possession it's in you are allowed to track it.
The legality however of tracking its use is uncertain, their calls, SMS etc, but again, since the phoone is yours, it should not be a problem.
They are going to get in touch with me should further details arise.
It's good to know though that as long as one doesn't attempt to take the law into their own hands, you are ok with tracking your stolen phone and should, technically be able to use this data collected as evidence against the thief should you find yourself able to track them this way.
I don't know if this information is of use to anybody but I thought I would share what I discovered today.
Just because you own a webcamera for instance, doesn't make it okay to stick it into someones house and record their activities does it?
Tracking your phone, no problems at all with that. But i don't think you have any right to read their SMS, Calls. Its a touchy subject.
Just thought i'd add this to your post.
cymru said:
Just because you own a webcamera for instance, doesn't make it okay to stick it into someones house and record their activities does it?
Tracking your phone, no problems at all with that. But i don't think you have any right to read their SMS, Calls. Its a touchy subject.
Just thought i'd add this to your post.
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No, but if they steal your webcam and it happens to be set up to record all activity around it (normally related to yourself) had it not been illegally removed from its original location, you're not to blame nor at fault should it keep recording wherever they leave it, and then provide this as evidence to the police in order to recover said stolen item.
Fair point. to be honest i'm just arguing for the sake of it. Im very bored.
Why not.
Well, we could argue technicalities, my mrs is a lawyer so I'm sure she would argue it out with me all day long about how their are laws against it, but to be fair, I think the law would take your side regardless, and you could even have it permitted on a technicality (i.e. that the server is set up to automatically back up all your data, contacts and SMS for your own data security, should someone elses end up there through illegally obtaining and using your device, that's through no fault of yours.)
Yeah fair play, I know what you mean. Even if its your phone and gets stolen i've no doubt any defence will pick holes in why you were able to have access to their personal information. We all know how good the justice system can be in our country sometimes.
It's true, it's always possible you could end up wit hthe wrong persons data and instead end up with some silly sod who bought a cheap stolen phone off someone (equally as guilty i'd say, but that's a different argument), but that is why the services such as Wavesecure offer options to simply disable the phone and prompt the (new) user to call one of your preset "buddies" or 999 (or any other message/number you care to give them) in order to return the phone.
Normally though I would suggest this would be a last resort, because a thief would probably just dispose of the phone or destroy it if they find it locked as such.
You could always track it down yourself and make a citizens arrest ;-)
Section 24A of PACE '84 :-D
^Don't really do this
Yes
Indeed, it would be perfectly legal to make a Citizen's arrest under those circumstances, however, to stereotype the nature of such a person that is likely to steal a mobile phone, particularly from the area in which I live, it is quite possible and somewhat likely that they are either A) a violent criminal (mugging), B) A drug abuser (mugging) or C) Just outright violent (any other person).
P.S. The moral is that it's not a good idea to try go after it yourself, you might get hurt, or worse......your phone might.
I was literally typing 'Are you from liverpool?' when i read your location on the right
Best leave well alone lol. Let your phone be the only Hero in your partnership.
Indeed
I personally am from the Wirral, but I work and study in Liverpool, and as anyone from Liverpool will tell you, we from the Wirral are considered stuck up c**ts and to us, Liverpudlians are violent criminals, personally, my mrs is from Liverpool, maybe I just want to have a hard life
But anyway, should my phone get stolen, no doubt someone would try sell it to her sooner or later.
A) Just phone your local police and give them the location of the thief and phone, they would love the easy collar.
B) Thieves rights? don't make me laugh. If someone nicks my camera they don't have any rights to the photo's on it when I recover it. I would be more than happy to photograph their cuts and bruises as I use "reasonable force" to excecute my citizens arrest and send them to them.
C) If they do send sms from your phone, just note down the numbers and pass them on to the police too, chances are they are thieving smackheads too so might be able to arrest more!
mantracom said:
A) Just phone your local police and give them the location of the thief and phone, they would love the easy collar.
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yeah sure...
"my phone is somewhere in a 600m circle around main street 145, can you get it for me?"
"absolutely sir, two S.W.A.T. teams are already on their way!"
lol kendon Good one!
As for the issue itself, I wonder how this would go in a country with slightly more relaxed laws (US for example). There, I can really see issues where someone jumps in their pickup with their 'shooting club buddy', tracks their stolen phone using a laptop etc. from the passenger seat, and go setting about making use of the second amendment (click here if you don't happen to know amendments to the US constitution off by heart like me) on the thief (or unsuspecting buyer of the stolen goods).
To be honest, I'd have little sympathy for the thief in that case, regardless of how outnumbered they were. If you steal, you really do deserve what you get. What happened to the concept of an outlaw, where the law affords them no protection from others due to their disrespect of it?
^BTW, don't go doing that just cos you saw it here.
And, for the record, I'm actually from Britain, so maybe a pickup wouldn't be used...
alias_neo said:
Indeed, it would be perfectly legal to make a Citizen's arrest under those circumstances, however, to stereotype the nature of such a person that is likely to steal a mobile phone, particularly from the area in which I live, it is quite possible and somewhat likely that they are either A) a violent criminal (mugging), B) A drug abuser (mugging) or C) Just outright violent (any other person).
P.S. The moral is that it's not a good idea to try go after it yourself, you might get hurt, or worse......your phone might.
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hahahaha "or worse your phone might"
cymru said:
I was literally typing 'Are you from liverpool?' when i read your location on the right
Best leave well alone lol. Let your phone be the only Hero in your partnership.
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kendong2 said:
yeah sure...
"my phone is somewhere in a 600m circle around main street 145, can you get it for me?"
"absolutely sir, two S.W.A.T. teams are already on their way!"
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LOL! This thread just made my day
Anyway, let's just hope you never have to use Wavesecure.
First let me start off by saying I'm a noob, a virgo, and like taking long walks on the beach LOL. I have been lurking around for the past couple of months and have learned a lot from the great people that like to help and share information. This is indeed a great community of people. This is my first post so if it seems long winded I apologize. Now my reason for my thread title. I live in Phoenix AZ (I know it's a dry heat), I was watching the news tonight and they did a story on the search of cell phones by the police. It seems that in California if you get stopped for anything, traffic ticket, jay walking, ect. and your cell phone is within arms length of you, the officer can ask for your phone and can search through it no search warrant needed! Yes that means anything and everything that is on your phone is free game (I find that a little strange since last year a husband went to court over accessing his wife's email and reading it.) But as the story was told California Supreme court upheld the ruling which again states that any person who comes in contact with a law enforcement officer can have their cell phone "looked at". This means call history, web sites visited, your phone book, and any and all information that is stored on your device. The only catch is that the device has to be within arms reach of the person. I am not a criminal, never even had a traffic ticket, but the thought of someone going through my phone drives me crazy. I keep my phone locked with a passcode, so would that mean that I would have to unlock my device for them to snoop through it? Anyway I found this interesting and I thought that I would share it with anyone who cares. My question is, of all of the talent that is in this community, has there ever been an app made like a "kill all pill", something that with just the touch of a button your device would be reset to factory settings and/or scrub the sd card? Just a thought. Once again thank you for allowing me to gain more knowledge of my device and to share in the community. Keep up the great work!
eddiegaz said:
First let me start off by saying I'm a noob, a virgo, and like taking long walks on the beach LOL. I have been lurking around for the past couple of months and have learned a lot from the great people that like to help and share information. This is indeed a great community of people. This is my first post so if it seems long winded I apologize. Now my reason for my thread title. I live in Phoenix AZ (I know it's a dry heat), I was watching the news tonight and they did a story on the search of cell phones by the police. It seems that in California if you get stopped for anything, traffic ticket, jay walking, ect. and your cell phone is within arms length of you, the officer can ask for your phone and can search through it no search warrant needed! Yes that means anything and everything that is on your phone is free game (I find that a little strange since last year a husband went to court over accessing his wife's email and reading it.) But as the story was told California Supreme court upheld the ruling which again states that any person who comes in contact with a law enforcement officer can have their cell phone "looked at". This means call history, web sites visited, your phone book, and any and all information that is stored on your device. The only catch is that the device has to be within arms reach of the person. I am not a criminal, never even had a traffic ticket, but the thought of someone going through my phone drives me crazy. I keep my phone locked with a passcode, so would that mean that I would have to unlock my device for them to snoop through it? Anyway I found this interesting and I thought that I would share it with anyone who cares. My question is, of all of the talent that is in this community, has there ever been an app made like a "kill all pill", something that with just the touch of a button your device would be reset to factory settings and/or scrub the sd card? Just a thought. Once again thank you for allowing me to gain more knowledge of my device and to share in the community. Keep up the great work!
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I saw the same report about California on our news.
I have news for you, I will never consider living in that state.
That is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and a step away from the government having video cameras in your house.
I don't know what you can do exactly.
If you ever get pulled over, send the ***** into your custom recovery and format all.
Scary what this country is turning into.
Just toss the phone in the back seat.
I'd actually be kinda curious about the existence of such an app, also....
Ridiculous is all I can say
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
I'd tell them to **** themselves and take them to the supreme court. That's purely unconstitutional.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
One more step in complete government control .... I live in Cali and truth be told if it wasn't for my son(separated parents) I wouldn't even live in this country.
"praise the lord and pass the ammunition"
RileyGrant said:
I'd tell them to **** themselves and take them to the supreme court. That's purely unconstitutional.
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I completely agree with you but unfortunately in this day and age "unconstitutional" doesn't mean a damned thing.
The Patriot act is "unconstitutional"...
Actually I just decided to NOT list all the things that are "unconstitutional" that are realities, I don't have that kind of time.
This country went to **** years ago
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
"Tase me, bro."
*smash*
*I'm assuming this is similar to the 'plug n' pull' (ya like that?) that was mentioned before. If all it takes is smashing the phone to ****, well, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I just had pr0n on my phone I wouldn't even care. But that never touches my phone. Nor my computer; felt the need to add that. I'm talking serious business. Not that 'phone tapping' couldn't be possible (yes, it can happen to us all) but anything to shut an effort down. I'd even smash my rooted device and give up a chance of rooted glory for all the bull**** that could come of it. I hate cops. I've had some horrible experiences with them in the past. I'm not a 'blah blah f*ck you' to the face anymore, but I don't play that ****. You can instantly tell when a cop is on the push, and usually it is because you are in a bad situation. But some trivial ****? Nah, I don't, and won't, play that.
Keep your phone locked. If they ask for the pass code, tell them no.
Prugor said:
Keep your phone locked. If they ask for the pass code, tell them no.
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I don't think it works like that, provided this was similar to the talk before ... your 'ish' gets plugged in and by some 'miracle super duper government cop pull' they jack any and everything off your phone.
I'd like some clarification though. I haven't seen a link, but this sounds pretty similar to the talk before.
I'd honestly laugh if this was a, "Gimme your phone son. Ok, how do I see your 'texties?'"
conqu1stador said:
I don't think it works like that, provided this was similar to the talk before ... your 'ish' gets plugged in and by some miracle super duper government cop pull they jack any and everything off your phone.
I'd like some clarification though. I haven't seen a link, but this sounds pretty similar to the talk before.
I'd honeslty laugh if this was a, "Gimme your phone son. Ok, how do I see your 'texties.'"
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They have a device they can hook the phone up to which copies all of the data.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying this sounds like. 'That talk before.'
If you could honestly lock your phone and deny access, well, that's a massive failure on their part. That is what I was saying. It sounds like all that business mentioned a month or two ago.
conqu1stador said:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying this sounds like. 'That talk before.'
If you could honestly lock your phone and deny access, well, that's a massive failure on their part. That is what I was saying. It sounds like all that business mentioned a month or two ago.
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Locking the phone will do nothing.
I suppose you can wipe the phone but, as we all know, the only way to truly destroy data is acid.
Right. If I am remembering correctly it was mentioned as such before. That's what I was saying. I wouldn't be surprised if this was being considered in Illinois. I should make a point of turning my phone off / removing the card everytime we / I get pulled over. Swallow the card if it appears suspect and smash the phone. I'd totally get tasered over as much.*
*tasers aren't that bad*
*yes, for fun
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This is BULL**** !
Im glad I live in Sin City
Just another reason for me to hate living in Cali. I must have missed the report but I remember about a month or so ago some state in the north eastern part of the us displayed a new device just for cell phones that police were beginning to use. Basically it comes with universal plug or what ever and totally scans phone in a matter of seconds. All contents are then stored in said device for further review. files included absolutely everything! Pictures, videos, internet history/cache, emails, call history etc. Welcome to socialism! California is leading the way.
Sent from my EVO
Just use titanium backup and dropbox. Then if being pulled over just boot to recovery and format all. Might still be able to recover the data though. We need a secure format option.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
Here is the key part:
eddiegaz said:
the officer can ask for your phone and can search through it no search warrant needed!
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Police officers can ask for lots of things. You don't have to give it to them. If an officers asks if he can look in your trunk you can say no, if they ask to come into your house you can say no, if they ask you anything you can remain silent. So if you have something on your phone that you don't want the police to see, just say no when they ask if they can look at it.
I have seen police go to apartments where the neighbor reported that someone was smoking pot. They can smell the pot, but if no one answers the door, or the person who answers does not let them in they can't take any further action.
mbaseball3 said:
Welcome to socialism! California is leading the way.
Sent from my EVO
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While I won't dispute Cali's socialist leanings, this is NOT evidence of it. Evidense of Fascism? Sure is! Socialism? No. There are big differences between communism and socialsim, and both can be facist...but so can democracy. Fascism is the real evil. Socialism and communism are only theoretical evils that tend to die off as time progresses (though either one work very well in small communities. Funny thing: almost any humane fiscal system can work, and work well, on a small scale...it is when one starts dealing with larger societies that the sh1t hits the fan). But this is all far more political than is allowed.
Fazulka said:
Here is the key part:
Police officers can ask for lots of things. You don't have to give it to them. If an officers asks if he can look in your trunk you can say no, if they ask to come into your house you can say no, if they ask you anything you can remain silent. So if you have something on your phone that you don't want the police to see, just say no when they ask if they can look at it.
I have seen police go to apartments where the neighbor reported that someone was smoking pot. They can smell the pot, but if no one answers the door, or the person who answers does not let them in they can't take any further action.
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Someone hasn't been paying attention to what is going on
What is "allowed" and what has been actually happening are two completely different things. Wanna see a video of people being body-slammed and tied up for dancing at the Jefferson monument? Minute 2:40 is when they tell someone that they will be arrested for continuing to record.
Here is a news report on the incident
So I seen the article about Siri being cracked and possibly being able to be ran on any device at: http://www.todaysiphone.com/2011/11/siri-cracked-to-work-on-any-device/
Does anyone know how to get it on Android because Iris really sucks lol?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
It requires an id from an actual 4S. Without it the servers would ignore the requests from your device. So no. There will probably be a few devs that do it for their own devices, but i don't see how it could be for anyone who wants it. Read the article
Sent from my HTC myTouch 4G using XDA App
Siri is retarded. I've tried her already. She doesn't know jack ****. All her answers where, "sorry, I don't know the answer to your question" or "you might want to ask kcjbvjjcxg he might know the answer. Tweet at @kcjbvjjcxg"
By the way, im not making this up. I'm serious. All her answers where basically I don't know answers.
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So Siri is just a bunch of iPhone freak hype...figures....:S
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coupetastic-droid said:
Siri is retarded. I've tried her already. She doesn't know jack ****. All her answers where, "sorry, I don't know the answer to your question" or "you might want to ask kcjbvjjcxg he might know the answer. Tweet at @kcjbvjjcxg"
By the way, im not making this up. I'm serious. All her answers where basically I don't know answers.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
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Siri has worked incredibly well in my experience. I consider it a damn fine piece of software. Mind you I'm no fan of the iPhone. Not because I think its crap. I don't. It's perfect for the majority of people because its idiot proof. I just need more than that.
coupetastic-droid said:
Siri is retarded. I've tried her already. She doesn't know jack ****. All her answers where, "sorry, I don't know the answer to your question" or "you might want to ask kcjbvjjcxg he might know the answer. Tweet at @kcjbvjjcxg"
By the way, im not making this up. I'm serious. All her answers where basically I don't know answers.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
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This was my experience as well when I fiddled with it. In the commercial they have people having regular conversations with the thing like it's the Enterprise computer from Star Trek.
I asked it a bunch of the exact same questions from the commercial and all I go was errors or wrong answers.
Then I handed it back to my friend who paid $400 for the phone just to get the Siri feature and laughed at him hysterically.
If you want to talk to your phone like it's a person, then get another person. I've never understood the appeal of trying to speaking in sentences to voice-activated software, because all you end up doing is wasting your breath. People already subconsciously make the effort to speak slower and enunciate better to voice-activated software. Why speak more words than necessary and spend more time essentially issuing a command?
"View/open weather" -Fewer words, low probability of parsing errors
"Is it going to snow today?" -More words, higher probability of parsing errors
I'm not saying that Siri is useless, especially considering I have Vlingo and I would even be content with Genius if it didn't freeze my phone with massive CPU/memory usage when connected to Bluetooth. However, Siri's natural language parsing as advertised is nothing but plain overhead to me.
Snakecharmed said:
If you want to talk to your phone like it's a person, then get another person. I've never understood the appeal of trying to speaking in sentences to voice-activated software, because all you end up doing is wasting your breath. People already subconsciously make the effort to speak slower and enunciate better to voice-activated software. Why speak more words than necessary and spend more time essentially issuing a command?
"View/open weather" -Fewer words, low probability of parsing errors
"Is it going to snow today?" -More words, higher probability of parsing errors
I'm not saying that Siri is useless, especially considering I have Vlingo and I would even be content with Genius if it didn't freeze my phone with massive CPU/memory usage when connected to Bluetooth. However, Siri's natural language parsing as advertised is nothing but plain overhead to me.
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THIS!!!!
I like buttons. I can look up today's weather on my weather widget 100 times faster than I can ask about it verbally, and that's IF the parsing errors are kept to a minimum!
If I want to know my schedule today? There's the Jorte icon right on my screen. One tap...BOOM! There's my schedule. If I want to call my wife, tap the shortcut I put on the screen to her and BOOM, the phone starts ringing.
None of this "Do you want to call Worf?" business. (Though in all fairness if a Klingon picked up the phone I probably wouldn't mind that it didn't call 'Wife'.) But until Siri makes better use of subspace communications, I'll stick with buttons.
My XBox wants me to talk to it too with the Kinect. Well I don't want to tell it to "Play movie". I want to hit the "Play button" and enjoy being quiet.
Voice commands for me really only come in handy when i'm driving.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
The Siri TV commercial that I always see has some of the worst use cases of voice-activated command. You're sitting in your kitchen eating cereal or looking out the patio door and asking a silly question, then waiting for the parser to figure out what you're saying, then listening to a long-winded answer? I don't want the software to tell me if it looks like it will snow, because what I really wanted to see all along was the weather app. I have all kinds of problems with someone who has to ask a phone what her day looks like. Reading the text message while jogging was the only example that made sense.
This is an illustration of people doing things just because they can, or how doing things the lazy way actually ends up being more inefficient than the established method of input. You're not speaking to IBM's Watson and getting obscure Jeopardy Q&A knowledge here. If the commercial simply depicted in-car use or even dialing someone who is buried in your contacts, perhaps the whole concept would seem less absurd to me.
Or maybe it's all just a humanist critique of how we've collectively become so socially inept that our most interesting daily vocal interactions are with a printed circuit board.
Snakecharmed said:
Or maybe it's all just a humanist critique of how we've collectively become so socially inept that our most interesting daily vocal interactions are with a printed circuit board.
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Agreed.
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yo guys, check out this video about siri LOL
http://www.geohot.ca/2011/11/what-happens-when-siri-gets-stuck-in.html
WARNING: EXPLICIT LANGUAGE, I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS!
agreed
You want something awesome? jeannie from the market works, just download it, hold down the search button, always use, and thats it.
What i use it for, well, i say HOW ARE YOU DOING and she tells me. I am pleased with that. Its funny. I can schedule an alarm WAY faster by simply holding search button, then going SCHEDULE PICK UP THE MONEY AT 8 O CLOCK. Granted it does go YOU WANT TO PICK UP SONNY AT 8? but if you train it and speak often it will learn your voice. Thats why when you hand it to your friend it doesnt understand a thing. But anyway, this is all fun stuff if used for the correct things.
You want weather info? just use the google news and weather widget. Or another widget, its so simple. But if you want a fast way to check the battery, navigate, schedule things, and just something to have fun with, try it out.
JEANNIE and EDWIN, two great voice activated apps that have "the server" to connex to.
Ars said:
Recent controversy sparked by the installation of monitoring software [k0: CIQ] on millions of smartphones has led US Rep. Edward Markey (D-MA) to propose a requirement that carriers and phone makers inform consumers about the presence of monitoring software and gain their "express consent" before collecting and transmitting information from phones.
The controversy started a couple months back [k0: almost a year ago] when a developer [k0: hi TrevE] publicized the widespread use of Carrier IQ software, which phone manufacturers and carriers use to monitor what happens on a smartphone. While Apple, Samsung, HTC, AT&T and others all said the software is used only as a diagnostics tool to improve network and service performance, congressmen started denouncing the use of Carrier IQ, and class-action lawsuits were filed.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ould-prevent-secret-smartphone-monitoring.ars
Discuss.
To me the whole CIQ debacle smelled of FUD and never really concerned me. It seemed obvious to that my carrier already has access to any data I transmit across their network, with or without any additional software installed on my device. Sure CIQ enabled the carrier to potentially (key word) access more sensitive data that I was not necessarily transmitting across their network. However I'm more concerned that I'll lose my phone and some random stranger will get access to all the naked pics of me on it... Not really because I don't store sensitive data like that on an insecure device like my phone. This feels a lot like the "Warning: Hot coffee is hot!" labels.
machx0r said:
This feels a lot like the "Warning: Hot coffee is hot!" labels.
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Not commenting on the rest, the whole "hot coffee" lawsuit has an untold story that most people have never seen. I suggest you - and everyone reading - watch the documentary (from HBO, find it whereever you stream/download things from) Hot Coffee. I can guarantee it'll change you view on that case and the idea of "frivolous lawsuits" forever.
machx0r said:
However I'm more concerned that I'll lose my phone and some random stranger will get access to all the naked pics of me on it... .
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That's awesome. Lol. I've said the same thing. They can monitor any message or call sent across the network anyways. I never understood what the big deal with a software, that was set to be inactive anyways, was. Malintent is the only thing to be scared of, and this never reeked of anything malicious, IMHO.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
that was set to be inactive anyways
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http://phandroid.com/2011/12/16/carrier-iq-by-the-numbers-26-million-sprint-handsets-900000-for-att/
Inactive... except for those 26 million.
And 1.3 million at any one time actively reporting.
k0nane said:
Not commenting on the rest, the whole "hot coffee" lawsuit has an untold story that most people have never seen. I suggest you - and everyone reading - watch the documentary (from HBO, find it whereever you stream/download things from) Hot Coffee. I can guarantee it'll change you view on that case and the idea of "frivolous lawsuits" forever.
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I respect you immensely k0, but frivolous lawsuits should not be in quotations nor a matter to take lightly. Of course there is a reality of using certain cases to further the tort reform movement, but this is just as shameless as any publicity stunt or "shock" image.
To dismiss all claims of frivolity because of mainstream examples, however, is naive. Such cases have almost single handedly driven the cost up and quality down of healthcare to where it stands today. And this is but one arena affected by the greed of humans. Hot coffee aside, it is a reality that should not be dismissed.
Neither here nor there, though. Way off topic. I support this bill.
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squshy 7 said:
To dismiss all claims of frivolity because of mainstream examples, however, is naive. Such cases have almost single handedly driven the cost up and quality down of healthcare to where it stands today. And this is but one arena affected by the greed of humans. Hot coffee aside, it is a reality that should not be dismissed.
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I generally agree. Yes, it's off-topic, but I'll clarify a little bit before letting it go - I think that claims of frivolity are often overblown. It is an absolute fact that there are greedy ambulance-chasing lawyers, rent-seeking plantiffs, and idiots who would award them large sums of money for nothing. I agree that this often contributes to the rising costs of health care. My point was that not all of what's deemed 'frivolous' by the mainstream media and the anti-consumer lobby actually is frivolous, and that some of the more-known cases like the hot coffee suit are vastly misreported and misunderstood. That's why I recommend(ed) further research - do your own homework, and watch the doc. Then do more homework. I didn't expect to come out with a different perspective... but I did.
I could be wrong, but I think that this is a non-issue.
Why?? Well I am glad you asked.
You know that two year contract we committed to when we purchased the phone? I am 99.999999999% sure that in there it says that they may monitor our usage for QC already in there. So if this passed, the providers would just say it is part of the contract that no one ever reads, but you accepted when you got the phone (which I believe it already is to date).
Unfortunately I don't ever foresee them making this an option that can be shut off. Basically it will say we do it, and if you don't like it go to another provider. Problem is all of the other providers will say the same exact thing.
Just my .02
Milkman00 said:
I am 99.999999999% sure that in there it says that they may monitor our usage for QC already in there.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely nothing related to CIQ is mentioned anywhere in the Sprint terms of service nor any device-specific terms of service.
I checked. Thoroughly.
Tinfoil hats, anyone? Ill pass them out for free!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
austin420 said:
Tinfoil hats, anyone? Ill pass them out for free!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want three!
austin420 said:
Tinfoil hats, anyone? Ill pass them out for free!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the rights activist thread, I think you misclicked. You must have thought this was the paranoia thread, common misconception.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
I see we've got some intelligent, I-can-think-for-myself types in here. Let's agree to just figuratively hide in here and discuss XDA-related matters: I've about had it with wading through all the bull**** in the other threads!
On topic: while I did get the impression that CIQ-gate got wildly blown out of proportion, I also like the general idea of this piece of legislation. Thanks for the link, k0nane.
k0nane said:
Absolutely nothing related to CIQ is mentioned anywhere in the Sprint terms of service nor any device-specific terms of service.
I checked. Thoroughly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing related to CIQ specifically??? That I wouldn't doubt. Are you saying though that there is nothing in the contract that says (something to the effect) that they may use tools to check tower strength and QC??
If it isn't in there, to comply with this new law they will just add it in there (as will all the carriers), and we will probably be right back to square one anyway.
Milkman00 said:
Nothing related to CIQ specifically??? That I wouldn't doubt. Are you saying though that there is nothing in the contract that says (something to the effect) that they may use tools to check tower strength and QC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing related to CIQ's functions (claimed and real). Nothing even remotely close.
k0nane said:
Nothing related to CIQ's functions (claimed and real). Nothing even remotely close.
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Click to collapse
you must notve read the privacy policy mentioned several times in the terms and conditions...
http://www.sprint.com/legal/privacy.html
We collect personal information about you in various ways. We may also get information from other sources and may combine it with information we collect about you.
Information that we automatically collect.
We automatically receive certain types of information whenever you use our Services. We may collect information about your device, your computer, and online activities. For example, we collect your device's and computer's IP address, the date and time of your access and the type of browser you use. We also collect information about your device's and computer's operating system, your location, and the Web site from which you came and then went and Web sites you visit on your device. We may link information we automatically collect with personal information, such as information you give us at registration or check out.
Information we collect when we provide you with Services includes when your wireless device is turned on, how your device is functioning, device signal strength, where it is located, what device you are using, what you have purchased with your device, how you are using it, and what sites you visit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this goes on for pages.
austin420 said:
this goes on for pages.
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Click to collapse
I did read it.
"We will aggressively log and transmit dialer keys pressed and detailed records of apps installed and used" (see here) is never mentioned. "What you have purchased with your device" does not cover that in any way, and "how you use your device" is so vague that any competent lawyer could knock it down instantly. Everything specifically listed can be collected by existing network services without CIQ.
This debate has been hashed out many, many times already. I created this thread just to link to current news.
i dont know about aggresivly, (your word i guess?) but why does it hurt for them to log keystrokes (in the dialer only) when they already have access to that info?
ciq is just a network metrics tool. it helps them improve the network (witch until lately was badly in need of improvments).
austin420 said:
i dont know about aggresivly, (your word i guess?) but why does it hurt for them to log keystrokes (in the dialer only) when they already have access to that info?
ciq is just a network metrics tool. if it helps them improve the network (witch until lately was badly in need of improvments).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't have access to keystrokes pressed. They have access to calls made - big difference. Dialer codes are used for more than just phone numbers, as you know.
CIQ had its legitimate uses. It was designed as a network metrics tool, and it may have helped improve the network. I don't debate that. Its functions, though, go beyond - tracking the apps I install and use is NOT legitimate. It implementation and use was done very poorly. If all had been done differently from the beginning, I would have had less of a problem with it. But it wasn't. And hey, look, now it's gone.
k0nane said:
They don't have access to keystrokes pressed. They have access to calls made - big difference. Dialer codes are used for more than just phone numbers, as you know.
CIQ had its legitimate uses. It was designed as a network metrics tool, and it may have helped improve the network. I don't debate that. Its functions, though, go beyond - tracking the apps I install and use is NOT legitimate. It implementation and use was done very poorly. If all had been done differently from the beginning, I would have had less of a problem with it. But it wasn't. And hey, look, now it's gone.
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Click to collapse
all good points, i still think it all fell well within the t&cs and privacy policy, but hey, now its gone! thanks ko!
I am starting to think that I am not going to use Android L.
Look at this. So, Search, from thegreatestdataminingcompanytheworldhaseverknown is now metasticized throughout the Android OS. Every page, every app, calls out to thatsearchengineeveryoneuses. It's even listening when the phone's OFF! I'll say that again: it's listening all the time. And there's no way to disable it! Coming from Intelligence, and as I've never trusted them, I've always deinstalled most G**gle apps, but now it appears their creepy circus-colored fingers have permeated throughout.
I realise that my point of view will strike many Upright Citizens as shocking because, after all, 'we can trust them'. All I can say is, our public education system has failed us. (Hint: If you are not paying for a product...
... you are the product)
Time for me to start looking into Linux options. Failing that, I'll just stick with Carbon 4.4.4, which serves fine. Oh, I'll probably try Andriod L, but I'm pretty sure now of what I'll find.
Interesting read. I never trusted them when it comes to your data and listening. Lol
If they want to watch me look at tits and asses, so be it
And the Moto X has had always on listening since release, better just throw the phone away and get a dumb phone...
Sent from my Moto X
How do they decide who to listen too? That's a lot of people to eavesdrop on. ?
Quantumstate said:
. . .
It's even listening when the phone's OFF! I'll say that again: it's listening all the time. And there's no way to disable it! Coming from Intelligence, and as I've never trusted them, I've always deinstalled most G**gle apps, but now it appears their creepy circus-colored fingers have permeated throughout
......./QUOTE]
Reading that post says to me that the phone listens when the screen is off, not when the phone itself is off.
There are also options to turn off the "search from any screen" feature.
So I guess I am not quite as paranoid as you, yet.
Maybe that's why fewer devices have removable batteries; so we can't turn them off all the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
murso74 said:
If they want to watch me look at tits and asses, so be it
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Click to collapse
You have a misconception of your importance. This, you were trained into though, so you come by it honestly.
Darth said:
How do they decide who to listen to? That's a lot of people to eavesdrop on.
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Click to collapse
Doesn't matter. With a security mindset you assume it's always you. Ask Schnier.
marvin02 said:
Quantumstate said:
. . .
It's even listening when the phone's OFF! I'll say that again: it's listening all the time. And there's no way to disable it! Coming from Intelligence, and as I've never trusted them, I've always deinstalled most G**gle apps, but now it appears their creepy circus-colored fingers have permeated throughout
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading that post says to me that the phone listens when the screen is off, not when the phone itself is off.
There are also options to turn off the "search from any screen" feature.
So I guess I am not quite as paranoid as you, yet.
Maybe that's why fewer devices have removable batteries; so we can't turn them off all the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, but what proof do we have at this point that it's not listening when actually -off-? I have none. (ref: OnStar) If you deal in sensitive matters, would you give them the credit? I wouldn't.
Looking into this, I find there is no viable Linux alternative, as we used to have with Opie. So either I block everything G**gle with an independent app like Android Firewall, or do with 4.4.4.
Oh no! Now everyone will know about my life because I'm super-important.
I'm not going to even try to say that Google does no wrong and doesn't use most of the data we send to it for advertising, but they don't listen to you, the phone does.
The phone listens for certain frequencies of sound in certain orders, if it doesn't see those, it keeps looking. It doesn't record every single thing said and send it to Google, it only sends what you say to it (everything past "OK Google").
It's the same way a button works. Nothing records when a button isn't pressed, but things records when it is.
As for the rest of Google, they do make their living off of a free service, what more can you expect? I'd rather pay for a no ad version of their stuff instaid, but untill that's possible, that's just the way it works if you want those beautiful services.
i really couldnt give a flying hoot nannies @#$% about that i have got absolutely nothing to hide. i read an artical a while back that the CIA tracks anybody who is "tor curious" hi CIA i really dont care if you're reading this because im on you internet monitoring list or whatever. i am not doign anything that i dont have the right to do. Damn i love the US. anyhow if your concerned about that what about this than?
Quantumstate said:
You have a misconception of your importance. This, you were trained into though, so you come by it honestly.
Doesn't matter. With a security mindset you assume it's always you. Ask Schnier.
Ya, but what proof do we have at this point that it's not listening when actually -off-? I have none. (ref: OnStar) If you deal in sensitive matters, would you give them the credit? I wouldn't.
Looking into this, I find there is no viable Linux alternative, as we used to have with Opie. So either I block everything G**gle with an independent app like Android Firewall, or do with 4.4.4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's simple my friend...... A smartphone is not for you then. Get an old flip phone and no one will spy on you. ?
No tablet or computers with cameras or microphones either.
New cars have Bluetooth... Not good.
Some TV's and video game consoles have cameras. Gone.
Can't think of anything else just yet. ?
Yeah.. it's not recording and streaming everything you say. The always listening feature isn't going to decipher everything you say until it matches the hot word, that would kill your battery. It's only kicks in when it detects multiple tones in a certain order.. I don't even know why I'm typing this, think what you want dude, that's not how it works. Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself.
bluebloomers said:
I'm not going to even try to say that Google does no wrong and doesn't use most of the data we send to it for advertising, but they don't listen to you, the phone does.
The phone listens for certain frequencies of sound in certain orders, if it doesn't see those, it keeps looking. It doesn't record every single thing said and send it to Google, it only sends what you say to it (everything past "OK Google").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone has a co-processor which is independent of the main system. Sure, its main function is to watch for keywords and instigate searches based on commands, but it can also be co-opted. I'm not saying any more because apparently I'm frightening a few people here who don't want to face it.
Darth said:
It's simple my friend...... A smartphone is not for you then. Get an old flip phone and no one will spy on you. ?
No tablet or computers with cameras or microphones either.
New cars have Bluetooth... Not good.
Some TV's and video game consoles have cameras. Gone.
Can't think of anything else just yet. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice trivializing there, Darth. Of course I've hardened what I have, and since this is such a touchy subject I'm not giving any hints. You have no idea who I am or why I bring this up.
You guys just blithely hand over all your contacts, your network of friends, your calendar, the websites you visit, your searches, your location 24x7, hell your very phone calls. I feel sorry for younger people these days who have no idea that all their online activity will follow them around -forever-. The stupid things they say online, being victimized by bullies, all will follow them to every future job application, every romantic engagement, and their future neighbors will know more about them than they can imagine. And I feel sorry for those whose self-esteem is so low that they feel worthless.
You just have no idea what prostrating yourself to the authorities like this, means. You have no idea what it was like in East Germany or Soviet Russia, much less where we're headed. You've never read 1984 or Fahrenheit 451. And you will pay the price by a subtle enslavement which is too abstract for you to understand, without an education. Something will smell bad but you will never be able to figure out what it is nor do something about it.
I am not here to bicker or school you. I was just trying to do y'all a favor by giving you a perspective that you may not have seen, with everyone so anxious to be "licking your lollipops". I tried to help, but some of you are too cool for me.
Thanks for that. Maybe you should unmask yourself and make a proper point rather than misguiding, misinterpreting and mistakenly telling everyone that they are stupid. Oh yes, and telling everyone what they may or may not have read (wrong on both counts).
Where did you get your education? Were you ever told to think for yourself? Let's go back over that last one again, as modernity tends to gloss it... Were you ever told to think for yourself?
Sent from my XT1052 using XDA Free mobile app
^ completely agree
Yes, I know. I'm the bad guy, lol.
See, this is why no one any longer shares any real information with you on The Internets. You feel frightened of what you are doing when I demonstrate why... and so you senselessly take it out on -me- rather than getting your own sh*t together. Good job there.
kboya said:
Oh yes, and telling everyone what they may or may not have read (wrong on both counts).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't lie. No one will believe you after a while.
Remember, privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect.
Cardinal Richelieu understood the meaning of surveillance when he famously said, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." Watch someone long enough, and you will find something to arrest -- or just blackmail -- with. Privacy is important because without it, surveillance information will be abused: to peep, to sell to marketers and to spy on political enemies -- whoever they happen to be at the time.
We do nothing wrong when we make love or go to the bathroom. (the adults here, anyway) We are not deliberately hiding anything when we seek out private places for reflection or conversation. We keep private journals, sing in the privacy of the shower, and write letters to secret lovers and then burn them. Privacy is a basic human need.
If we are observed in all matters, we are constantly under threat of correction, judgment, criticism, even plagiarism of our own uniqueness. We become children, fettered under watchful eyes, constantly fearful that --either now or in the uncertain future-- patterns we leave behind will be brought back to implicate us, by whatever authority has now become focused upon our once-private and innocent acts. We lose our individuality, because everything we do is observable and recordable.
How many of the adults present have paused during conversation in the past four-and-a-half years, suddenly aware that we might be eavesdropped on? Probably it was a phone conversation, although maybe it was an e-mail or instant-message exchange or a conversation in a public place. Maybe the topic was terrorism, or politics, or Islam. We stop suddenly, momentarily afraid that our words might be taken out of context, then we laugh at our paranoia and go on. But our demeanor has changed, and our words are subtly altered.
This is the loss of freedom we face when our privacy is taken from us. This is life in former East Germany, or life in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. And it's our future as we allow an ever-intrusive eye into our personal, private lives.
Liberty requires security without intrusion, security plus privacy. Widespread surveillance is the very definition of a police state. And that's why educated people must champion privacy even when we have nothing to hide.
The level of stupid in this thread astounds me. If someone wants your information or something of yours, they're going to get it. It doesn't matter if your phone is always listening or not.
Sent from my Moto X
'Good job' there, eh, "imnuts".
Giving up is not the answer.
i love how, when everyone doesn't jump on this tools bandwagon, he turns on the forums.
Op is as a TROLL!
Thread is ridiculous!