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Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.
ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/
I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.
Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open
The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.
Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.
Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.
give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.
Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes
Paulplex said:
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Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806
@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.
do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...
"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).
Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.
@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.
I'm fairly new to smartphones, having had the Tilt2 for only about six months after about four years with a Treo 650, but one thing seems to be increasingly true about Windows Mobile phones: If you want the greatest capabilities, you just have to get an iPhone, not a Windows phone.
It just drives me crazy that all the good apps are iPhone. Deposit checks to Chase Bank without deposit slips or going to the bank using your iPhone camera AND THE CHASE DEPOSIT APP FOR iPHONE! Netflix, play movies on iPhone or trailers on Windows. AT&T U-verse download and play movies...on your iPhone. These are three fairly new ones that come to mind, but it is this way for seemingly everything. Even TCM's new movie schedule app is for iPhone, Droid, and Blackberry...Blackberry for crying out loud...but not Windows.
It's another 18 months before we can upgrade for a reasonable price from our two HTC Tilt2 phones to iPhones. If Microsoft wants to increase its market share, it needs to offer subsidies to developers. Windows 7 Mobile is not the answer...we don't buy computers for the sake of the operating systems. It's for the programs that run on the OS. Isn't it the same with smart phones? They all make calls and take bad photos. It's the other stuff that is the difference.
Am I wrong?
Youre absolutely right, however with over 300,000 downloads of the windows phone 7 SDK already, I think the next version of windows will have plenty of apps to enjoy. Microsoft is also wanting developers to release a free demo of all software, so we can check out any app to make sure we want to buy it. With the integration of XBOX Live, playing games online with other windows 7 users and the focus on gaming, WP7 is going to be awesome. UI definitely looks great and there are rumors that the day the marketplace opens up there will be over 100,000 aps submitted and available. Things really are looking up for microsoft phones. I know I'm getting one!
MPlayer: will let you stream hulu and bbc and others.
Movies for rental: Check out Amazon Unbox. It's part of amazons video service, where you can rent and buy movies and tv shows. You can have the settings set to automatically download a mobile version of the movie or show you are getting. Though I've never tried it with a rental. I usually just buy tv shows for 99 cents. Downside is it is not streaming, but download to pc and then transfer to your phone. Another option is to use
It's true that some of the very new apps will probably never see a WinMo 6.x port since the platform is switching to WP7, but calling it an "application desert" is a stretch. I have over 100 different programs installed to my phone, with everything from musical instrument simulators to various business tools and games. There's a huge number of free programs as well as a lot of high quality paid-for programs. Check the "apps worth installing on the tp2" for a good sample of the free applications you can get.
bowserb, as you said, you are new to smartphones, so with a lot of respect i want to share something, my experience with smartphones is a little more than yours, motorola q, blackberry, htc 8125, samsung epix, samsung blackjack, htc touch and know i have a tilt2, and beleive me its much more phone than the iphone
windows mobile and iphone are two differents worlds, windows is more for professionals and business people, focussed in getting the job done, excellent in word, excel, pp, (create and edit), emails capabilities, outlook and exchange sync, etc,etc, then as a second priority is the music, videos, etc,etc
on the other hand iphone is the phone for teenagers, to play, to think they have the ultimatte machine (go to a high school and teel me if dont see al least a hundred of them in 110 kids), you need aplications for everything, let me explain, when you are to compare a phone you have to do it from the box, which one is more capable without going to itunes or marketplace, there the iphone dont have a chance, in others words if you dont jailbreak the iphone its almost useless, my sister and my brother have them, so i know what im talking about
if you want real games and real tv, you have xbox, playstation and a flat screen
MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7. With WP7, its possible they can make money off the mobile market like Apple and Google have, but that remains to be seen. It would require a whole new level of support and financial commitment than MS has shown in the past. MS has proved they can make money from a new market (XBOX), if they see it as a viable potential opportunity and throw enough resources at it. But if they go into half-hearted, they will fail now that Apple and Google already have a substantial hold on the market.
Yes, commercial developer support for WM6 is drying up with WP7 coming in the next couple months. But there is still a huge user supported base, many will argue. If you want more support from MS and other commercial developers, its not going to happen. They have all moved on.
The underpinnings of WM6 is just too old for developers to make backwards compatible applications. All the WM products up to version 6 are based on the same Windows CE code from 2000. So you can see why there is little desire to make an application for this outdated OS, when there is a modern updated version coming out in a few months.
And don't forget about Android. The iPhone is all the rave for the uninformed. But if you want a OS that has a huge user community, and tons more customization and function than the iPhone, then Android is what you want. Unless MS can really turn things around, I'm almost certainly going Android for my next phone.
Since you want an Iphone so bad.....
Here is my two cents on an iPhone.
Yes, I agree with you it has a lot of nifty apps, in various categories. On of the other side, a "phone" is for making calls. I have 3 cousins, and a few family friends who have Iphones, they hate the "phone" part of it because it drops calls, and lags on the phone screen severly. I know many people who have smartphones who send internet to their iPhone's to do what you were talking about with the Chase banking things and stuff. The new iPod Touch has a camera and mic if I'm not mistaken.
My dad used to be subscribed to a PocketPC magazine, and they ranked iPhone top of the line for apps, but worst for phone usage. Even worse than regular phones (ie non-smartphones).
Whatever you want to do is up to you though.
App desert?
Thanks for the comments, guys. I had no idea that WM6.5 was an update of Windows CE. Last time I used that OS was on a Casio PDA...a really long time ago. (Note for the younger crowd: A PDA was smartphone without the phone.) About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
MS Office. I can't imagine iPhone Contacts being a clumsier, more limited application than on the Tilt2, where contacts show up multiple times and all with m next to the name. Word and Excel are OK, but I almost never use them, even though they are indispensable on my desktop computer.
Dropped calls on iPhone. I suspect that is an AT&T problem, not iPhone. My Tilt2 drops calls all the time, as did the Treo 650 before it and the Sony/Erikson before that. Isn't that the reason people are clamoring for iPhone on Verizon?
iPhone is for teenagers? How do you know I'm not one? And even though I'm not, why should they have all the fun? No I don't really care about music and movies on my phone, but the ever growing list of useful and practical apps for the iPhone would seem to make that platform the choice of all age groups!
Anyway, this reply is mostly rhetorical. In 18 months, it will be time to survey the smartphone landscape.
redpoint73 said:
MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7.
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They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.
txrider said:
They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.
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They do. They are investing billions into WP7.
bowserb said:
About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
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WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.
redpoint73 said:
WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.
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Even the high end HTC HD2 will not get an official upgrade to WP7, it has been said by Microsoft and HTC....
If the people on here can do it...that's another story...
Hello,
I guess most of the People flashing WP7 on their HD2 do not have a WP7 License.
And by activating Windows Live services Microsoft gets to know your name, phone number, e-mail adress...
May Microsoft know that you do not own a WP7 device but only flashed it to your HD2?
Does nobody here believe that Microsoft could try to stop people flashing the Rom by using all legal steps possible?
What could happen? How are the possibilities for it to happen/not to happen?
What do you think?
i worried about that ...but i gave all fake information to microsft ...
I doubt microsoft would spend the time and money going after individual users just for using wp7 on their hd2. If anything, they will try to find a fix in their system to know if you have a genuine device or not and stop it from working, and I hear they have already sent a letter to a member of the dft team, which is why I don't think they officially released the rom here on xda. But it wouldn't be worth it for them to legally go after us end users... especially since we basically are using the key we got from them so we can buy apps from their app store, which is putting money in their pockets.
I doubt Microsoft will act on this. Sure, they might take some steps to make future updates more difficult to port or activate, but I doubt they will take legal action against the people running the OS.
For Microsoft, people running WP7 and activating Live services on their HD2 might even be a source of income, since they can buy stuff on the Market Place. I'm pretty sure they will conveniently count all LEO7 users the next time they brag about WP7's market share
Still, handset manufacturers will probably be less happy. If you can run WP7 on your HD2, there's not much incentive to buy a new phone with practically the same hardware just for the OS.
What could happen?
Maybe Microsoft will bring hundreds of users to trial and sentence them to death
No seriously, just imagine the huge effort to get a single user not to use the DFT WPH. This also would most probably result in bad newspaper articles against M$.
WPH is a thing were in my opinion ms should stop trying to be better or harder than appple and finding a middle-way between android and, you know, jailPhone.
Ah, back on topic.. i think nothing serious will happen, maybe ms tries to talk to the devs like they did with chevronWP7, but you wont be sentenced to death nor go to jail or something...
by using a pirate windows, M$ can know more info about you (even your naked foto), but have you ever heared someone be charged with pirate windows with no commercial use?
M/S could use legal action about copywrite theft but it would do is put someone already using a WinMo phone and trying to use a WP7 phone from leaving M/S forever. That would mean quite a few HD2 folks, when deciding about their next phone would blank out M/S.
M/S want WP7 to be a big success and the only way it will be big is if it gets a load of apps developed for it. And the only way it will get the iphone and android developers to make a WP7 app is if there is a big market for it. Now if M/S quote the number of WP7 phones that have been sold they will get a lot lot less than the number of activation licences for WP7 - now what number do you think M/S would want to broadcast? Yes they could exaggerate the number, but the real figure would get out.
Since Apple get a proportion of any apps sold, then no doubt M/S would go along the same lines, and this money would more than make up for the development costs.
The WP7 market share is well below ipohne o/s, Android, Symbian and Blackberry.
There are several possibilities... I think one thing is for sure: soon, they'll stop giving keys without IMEI or proof of purchase. I doubt they just ignore the issue, thinking of apps sales.
The lightest thing they'll do is ban all the keys given since yesterday. Some legit folks will be affected, but they just have to contact Microsoft. Microsoft might try to reach customers who asked for a key, so they confirm the possession of a legit WP7 device.
Can MS have access to the HD2 IMEI? Can they "ban" something besides being able to enter the Market?
If we consider lawsuits, a question arises: will they sue everyone who asked for a key or only those who've used it? Lawyers are expensive, but they are filthy rich!
So now we have a panic room in XDA.
Why are people afraid ? Did you still your HD2? Did you still your key? Will the LiVe services give you ilegitm money or pay app for free?
No I'm not a tief, I just ask a key that allowed that I can try a new WM SO on my WM Device I have just payed the license.
And MS have said to us, we can't have WP7S because of 3 keys issues, but now MS can be glad because we solve that issue for their.....it was MS that could pay some money for our development.
Comeone have you or no a WM Device, with licenses payed when you buy the HD2? I think yes, because I pay a lot of money for my HD2 WM Device.
An Alternative View...
I can understand why some are worrying about this but MS tend to go after larger organisations and even then have been known to be surprisingly reasonable - certainly when compared to the Adobe and Oracle sharks - providing people are trying to true up.
So I doubt they would go after individuals - if they were that litigious there is no way they would dish out activation codes without a few checks and balances.
But here's the other view; up until about 24 hours ago I hated WP7 with a passion. it seemed like a half-assed retrograde step from 6.5.5 and I was sore at MS for selling out to the Apple business model.
I don't eat humble pie too often, but I'm just about to - WP7 is pretty good and it may even be a keeper. It's lively, reasonably good fun and works quite nicely. I even think that Marketplace is as good as and perhaps even better than the App Store - I was surprised how many apps it had, including good quantities of free ones and although App Store must have more, many of them are utter rubbish. The fact that Marketplace lets you try before you buy is a massive plus and should allow users to filter out the rubbish.
Had it not been possible to get the phone activated and were it not for the good XDA-ers (and others) who have helped to unlock the device I wouldn't even have tried it, but when most of one's personal objections are removed, it becomes worth a look at least. My only major gripe at present is the lack of a decent Sat Nav.
So whether they meant to or not, MS have probably ensured that my next device will be a WP7 device and I would have said there was more chance of me eating my own face than doing that up until very recently. And that's without the money I have spent at Marketplace today and what I will spend in future.
Sense on the part of MS - unlikely. Coincidence and a loophole that will be closed soon - probably. Humble pie for tea? Definitely.
well Microsoft UK have stopped giving out codes and ask you to call HTC instead. i cant see Microsoft proceeding with legal as it would seem to be more hassle. i think they will start asking for more information about your phone when you ask for a code
IMO, why would they go so far as to go after individual users??? I believe they might contact DFT at the most. I mean, dont they want as much consumers using and experiencing their OS as possible, suscribing to Zune? Purchasing their apps???? I mean they should see this as more users getting to know and love WP7 and attracting more developers (since a lot of people hacking to these measures might be devs.) And maybe it will lead to users wanting a WP7 device as their next phone after being so pleased with the experience on their HD2... I mean, i doubt this would put a dent on WP7 sales overall since we are such a small # of users doing this. Just make it harder to get the code, and publically say "that they dont encourage/reccomend this and to get a real WP7 device yadda yadda yadda..."
Plus, we already have a license to use one of their OS's (WM6.5) so i bet they can be a bit more easy on us than to say... a port to an Android device
just a thought...
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
how legal/illegal this might be I am of the belief that microsoft is smart enough to not waste money by going after all us individuals. I do believe that they might try to block us from using wp7 by applying new securityfeatures just like apple does with jailbreak though As said previously MS just stopped giving out keys in the UK and even though they would try to check then your phone would show up as a HD7. If they dig deeper they may be able to see that you really do not own a HD7, but again i do not believe they are willing to spend that much time.
Danation said:
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
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good enough for me if thats the case LMAO
May be we should try to write the public letter to Microsoft with request to give us a possibility to buy a license for wp7? Why they allow to upgrade XP to W7 and don't allow to upgrade WM6.5->WP7?
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
I think option 1.
would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.
aenedor said:
I think option 1.
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Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.
homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
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Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).
I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.
Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)
I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.
1 and 2, please not 3.
It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.
I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?
Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.
ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.
1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3
homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
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Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ
A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.
The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.
ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...
I have a concern that Microsoft will revoke our activation codes and we will loose all our purchased apps and games.
Could this happen, do you think it could happen, or please tell me I am being paranoid and go spend some money on the marketplace?
Sent from my HD2 running WP7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
THUDUK said:
I have a concern that Microsoft will revoke our activation codes and we will loose all our purchased apps and games.
Could this happen, do you think it could happen, or please tell me I am being paranoid and go spend some money on the marketplace?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're being paranoid. Go spend some money in the marketplace.
Seriously, I think there are two reasons why this won't be a problem:
First, I doubt Microsoft is tracking the sort of information that would ever lead to this (I'd expect they would have to be linking our IMEI numbers to our windows live id), or if they are, I doubt they would ever bother to check that those IMEI numbers were for valid WP7 devices.
Second, your purchases are tied to your windows live id, not a particular phone. Even if they decided to somehow shut down phones that weren't using legitimate versions of WP7, I doubt they would (or legally could) take away your purchased apps (without refunding your money, at least).
Go forth and purchase!
Dingo
The activation code is needed to use Windows live services, Xbox live and Marketplace. You can still use WP7 on HD2 if you don't have an activation code (the OS still works).
Even if activations were canceled or revoked, apps and games installed on the phone would still be usable unless they specifically require access to your activated Windows Live account.
aye, what they said ^^
also, could they, potentially yes but would they? its very unlikely they would, whilst you are (hopefully) spending money on the market you are sending them money, as long as users of WP7 dont take the piss as has happened in the android development and steal as much as the can MS doesnt have an incentive to block us all. Unfortunately as WP7 gains popularity we may get flooded with freeloaders illegally downloading as much as they can get their hands on, this would kill us as MS would then have a very big incentive to lock down WP7 even more and potentially part of that could be blocking us as well.
in short, buy stuff on the market and they will be happy resulting in us beingt happy!
It was interesting to test WP7 as we did with Android. But the activation code is so embarassing that it dissuade us. So we just hope that we will have an automatic simple unlock code soon. For the moment, bye bye WP7 and welcome Android.
How is it embarrassing, just curious? It was simple & effective to get the activation code. WP7, is quite simply way better than Android, imho. To each his own, but I think if you used it, while activated, you'd be convinced to keep it. It's easy to use, effective, & so clean looking. Lmao, I sound like a commercial now, I better stop.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App