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Is it just me or everyone else that is experiencing a super long time in charging their phone to full battery? I am running the froyostone latest build and I have already followed all the guides in this forum to save battery life. The issue I am having is that it takes many hours to recharge the battery to full when connected to a wall charger.
It took 5 hours to go from 30% battery to 90%.
*no i wasn't charging the phone with the phone turn off*
Zythyr said:
Is it just me or everyone else that is experiencing a super long time in charging their phone to full battery? I am running the froyostone latest build and I have already followed all the guides in this forum to save battery life. The issue I am having is that it takes many hours to recharge the battery to full when connected to a wall charger.
It took 5 hours to go from 30% battery to 90%.
*no i wasn't charging the phone with the phone turn off*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a stock battery, which I can charge from 25% or less to 100% in about 30 minutes to an hour. I think there is something wrong with your charger.
its actually not taking that long, it probably got to 90% VERY quickly, you just checked on it later... they're false numbers... what you need to do is this; run your battery all the way down.. then charge it for about 1-2hrs, until it gets somewhere in the 90's then, while plugged in, shut the phone down, remove the battery, put the battery back in, boot up the phone (the phone should remain plugged in) then load up WM, load up android with the hard buttons backlight on, then once it boots you should show higher than what you had before (if not 100%) from this point android will remember your charge and you will be able to go to 100% all the time now. (until you load a new rom)
10507 said:
I have a stock battery, which I can charge from 25% or less to 100% in about 30 minutes to an hour. I think there is something wrong with your charger.
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Click to collapse
I got stock battery also. No idea why it taking so long.
javolin13 said:
its actually not taking that long, it probably got to 90% VERY quickly, you just checked on it later... they're false numbers... what you need to do is this; run your battery all the way down.. then charge it for about 1-2hrs, until it gets somewhere in the 90's then, while plugged in, shut the phone down, remove the battery, put the battery back in, boot up the phone (the phone should remain plugged in) then load up WM, load up android with the hard buttons backlight on, then once it boots you should show higher than what you had before (if not 100%) from this point android will remember your charge and you will be able to go to 100% all the time now. (until you load a new rom)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have already tried this but still no luck.
10507 said:
I have a stock battery, which I can charge from 25% or less to 100% in about 30 minutes to an hour. I think there is something wrong with your charger.
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Click to collapse
What kernel are you using?
Sichroteph said:
What kernel are you using?
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Click to collapse
I am using hastarin r8 kernel, but I was experiencing the same issue with previous versions and the default kernel.
I just tested the charging rate by connecting my HD2 to a stock charger from HTC which I borrowed from a friend. Charging was a lot faster.
Since I bought my HD2 used, the charger that came with it, is not the stock charger from HTC.
But I still don't understand what is causing the charging to be very slow.
How to calculate charging time
Charging time = capacity of battery x 1,4 / charging current
HD2 stock battery= 1230mAh x 1,4 / 1000mA = 1,7 hours
Best
leehobin
Two things on charging batteries:
1) First, make sure none of the pins in the battery compartment is bent. This dramatically slowed charging for me once.
2) Android keeps battery stats in a file that gets loaded with your build. THese stats are often wrong. Be sure to fully charge under WinMo, then with power still attached, boot into Android. This will adjust some of the stats and charging in Android should be fine then. There's a thread somewhere on more details here if you want to tweak your stats. The battery slows down its charging when it gets close to the full state. If for some reason your charger thinks the temperature is getting too high or the state is getting near full it dramatically slows the charging rate. Both of these could be erroneous interpretations of the battery data. Also, if you have an extended battery, make sure to use a Kernel that is compatible with extended batteries, like Hastarin 7.x.
Zythyr said:
I just tested the charging rate by connecting my HD2 to a stock charger from HTC which I borrowed from a friend. Charging was a lot faster.
Since I bought my HD2 used, the charger that came with it, is not the stock charger from HTC.
But I still don't understand what is causing the charging to be very slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all chargers are built the same. Some usb charger provide more juice while others provide less. Maybe your non stock charger came from a non smart phone...
Zythyr said:
Is it just me or everyone else that is experiencing a super long time in charging their phone to full battery? I am running the froyostone latest build and I have already followed all the guides in this forum to save battery life. The issue I am having is that it takes many hours to recharge the battery to full when connected to a wall charger.
It took 5 hours to go from 30% battery to 90%.
*no i wasn't charging the phone with the phone turn off*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Current Widget from the Market can tell you how many mA your phone is getting when it's charging.
this is just an approximation formula. a lithium ion battery charger is more sophisticated than this. it first brings battery voltage up to 20% safely (because any voltage below this is the harmful zone of operation), then it stuffs the battery at full capacity upto 80%. then in the 3rd stage, the current drops linearly with time.
over the past year, my stock battery gives me the following profile:
20-80% -> 1 hour (800-820ma constant, unless phone is awake)
80-100% -> 1 hour (800 -> 0ma)
by 100% i mean 0ma charge current. not 100% on the battery icon. you should be aware that the battery is still charging even after the indicator reaches 100%. but the current is insignificant (10-20ma)
even though the charger is rated at 5v 1A, it supplies only 820ma current at the maximum. this is normal. also for a lion battery the safe operating regions are around 20-90%. by safe i mean prolonging battery life. this roughly corresponds to 3.6v - 4.0v. avoid overcharging your battery frequently.
also someone mentioned current widget as a good approximate tool to study battery performance. you might also want to delete batterystats.bin and condition your battery once (i.e. fully discharge and fully recharge). this will force android to re-determine the new 0% and 100% levels. search the android forums for this.
hope this helps.
leehobin said:
Charging time = capacity of battery x 1,4 / charging current
HD2 stock battery= 1230mAh x 1,4 / 1000mA = 1,7 hours
Best
leehobin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
silenced3 said:
this is just an approximation formula. a lithium ion battery charger is more sophisticated than this. it first brings battery voltage up to 20% safely (because any voltage below this is the harmful zone of operation), then it stuffs the battery at full capacity upto 80%. then in the 3rd stage, the current drops linearly with time.
over the past year, my stock battery gives me the following profile:
20-80% -> 1 hour (800-820ma constant, unless phone is awake)
80-100% -> 1 hour (800 -> 0ma)
by 100% i mean 0ma charge current. not 100% on the battery icon. you should be aware that the battery is still charging even after the indicator reaches 100%. but the current is insignificant (10-20ma)
even though the charger is rated at 5v 1A, it supplies only 820ma current at the maximum. this is normal. also for a lion battery the safe operating regions are around 20-90%. by safe i mean prolonging battery life. this roughly corresponds to 3.6v - 4.0v. avoid overcharging your battery frequently.
also someone mentioned current widget as a good approximate tool to study battery performance. you might also want to delete batterystats.bin and condition your battery once (i.e. fully discharge and fully recharge). this will force android to re-determine the new 0% and 100% levels. search the android forums for this.
hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow ! thanks alot !
Is it bad to let my charge over night overnight? I thought it would stop charging when it got full to avoid overhanging.
Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G
Since I have access to a a battery simulator and charger... the best way to recondition a battery is:
1. Create a low battery scenario by lowering the input voltage to just a hair above 2.7 volts (I had to create a shim to get to the battery receiver leads).
2. Boot with full 4.2 and in ClockWork remove battery stats
3. Drain and Charge battery to 4.2
I get enterprise email and I get a lot of mail daily that I have to read and respond to (150 or more -- no I don't respond to all of them), plus the phone calls, RSS reading and some texting plus a pic here and there and maybe a couple of you tube videos. I get more than 24 hours until the 15 % comes up. 50 hours would be nice but that did not even happen in my black berry with Edge only.
Mine improve 3 fold from sub 7 hours to 24 plus (yes I sleep late so probably the phone gets a 6 hour rest but the enterprise email and text is pushed down even then as I work with folks from Asia and Europe as well.
logdrum1 said:
Since I have access to a a battery simulator and charger... the best way to recondition a battery is:
1. Create a low battery scenario by lowering the input voltage to just a hair above 2.7 volts (I had to create a shim to get to the battery receiver leads).
2. Boot with full 4.2 and in ClockWork remove battery stats
3. Drain and Charge battery to 4.2
I get enterprise email and I get a lot of mail daily that I have to read and respond to (150 or more -- no I don't respond to all of them), plus the phone calls, RSS reading and some texting plus a pic here and there and maybe a couple of you tube videos. I get more than 24 hours until the 15 % comes up. 50 hours would be nice but that did not even happen in my black berry with Edge only.
Mine improve 3 fold from sub 7 hours to 24 plus (yes I sleep late so probably the phone gets a 6 hour rest but the enterprise email and text is pushed down even then as I work with folks from Asia and Europe as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do I create a low battery scenario by lowering the input voltage to just a hair above 2.7 volts?
hiltun said:
Is it bad to let my charge over night overnight? I thought it would stop charging when it got full to avoid overhanging.
Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the "charger" that you plug into the wall is just a power supply, the actual "charger" is in the phone, and when it detects the battery is full it stops charging.
So I rooted and installed a custom rom for my dad on his evo and as a good habit I always calibrate the battery with "battery calibration" app from the market. The evo and the epic both have stock 1500mah batteries. I ran the app on the evo and once it got to 100% it read a solid 4200mv.. but whenever I flash a rom on my epic and calibrate it afterwards, fluctuates from 4188 mv to 4194. Its pretty annoying that the battery isn't fully charging. My stock battery is 7 months old.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
just curious, why is that annoying? do you think 12mv is going to do anything for you? besides i seriously doubt whatever is reading the voltage off the battery is accurate to a mv. If it was you would be able to see it run down in 1mv increments.
also not charging your battery to 4.2v will make it last longer and perform better.
You should use an actual DMM to read the battery not an app....4.2 volts and 4.192 volts really isn't that big of a difference anyway..... I have an associates degree in electronic engineering tech and I can tell you its not enough to notice a difference in batt. life
Yeah I know it's not a huge difference at all but i just wanted to read an explanation of why the case is. I know nubecoder released a patch for a more complete charge.. the app was the control, the phones were the variable so i don't think the app is misreading. I remember reading somewhere that if u leave your phone on charge after 100%, it starts draining?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
I don't think that I've ever seen above 4185 on my phone, but as others have said it's of no consequence, and may increase the useful life of the battery and prevent early damage and loss of capacity, since the most damage is done to LiIon batteries when they are almost fully charged and almost drained.
The stock Froyo charging routine seems to fast charge to about 97%, then the blue light comes on. It then slow charges to 100% and stops charging. When the battery drains to about 95% it slow charges back to 100%. Lather, rinse, repeat until you unplug the phone. This seemed to change a bit in Gingerbread, where it seems to display 100% over a wider range of voltages.
theres many reasons why: first your phone cuts off voltage when it reaches 4.2v. so even if everything else was perfect you'd only see 4.2v for a small window. after then there is re-engage limit where it will trickle charge.
other reasons..
software to measure voltage isnt accurate to .001mv, batteries get uncalibrated, internal resistance grows over time, charging circuit would be really expensive to make if it was accurate to .001mv...
I never seen any patch for a more complete charge (closer to 4.2v). Someone might have made a patch that starts the trickle charge at a higher limit, but like i said before keeping your battery at 4.2v isnt good for it.
excuse me, but how close to 2700mv should it be before it should say 0% ?
mine says 100% at 4192mV but 1% at 3634mV
The highest mine's ever gone is 4192mV.
Urban Vendetta is one of the few roms I have had a full charge. It is all different on each rom and phone
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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Click to collapse
arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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Click to collapse
It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Click to collapse
Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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Click to collapse
I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
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crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Ive bought my n6p a few days back but is already a second hand.
Though its in perfect condition I would still love to take care of the battery since I know theres been a large chunks of battery cycle depleted already.
An average li-ion has about 300-500 charges before battery shows signs of deterioration.
In order to increase the battery life cycle, charging it with only 4.05 volts as conpsred to 4.20+ is the best way to take care of li-ion cells.
The problem is, the charger that comes with n6p produces volts from 4.16 as the minimum up to 4.4+ which is basicslly dtressful to the battery, plus letting it be plugged in to 100% increases temperature and so on.
I can go on.
Now, I have the habit and got an app that will chsrge the battery judt to 78% or 85% which turns down voltage just below 4.2, however there sre still instances that the voltage goes more than 4.2 even though im using a standard 900mah charger and not the rapid charger (original usb cable from huawei type a-std)
The question is, is there anyway to turn down voltage for n6p?
If not, any electrical engineer or anyone who has great knowledge backed with experience here to tell the comunity if chsrging in 4.2+ v is safe for n6p and why? Thanks
Charge voltage above 4,23ish is not good for lithium battery cells. Mine has a reported battery voltage of 4,4 volts.(!!)
As to the actual science of overcharging/over-volting lithium batteries, I don't think there's any long term 500-1000 charge cycle data. I do however have experience from radiocontrolled 1/8 scale lithium powered cars. Absolutely none of the lithium battery sellers or charger manufactors​ approve charging over 4,2volts. If you have a higher end charger you can push them to 4,25v-4,35v for cheaty improved off-the-line race starts but the charger will beep and complain/warn you constantly about the risks.
I was slightly concerned about charge voltage aswell, optimum charge modes for lithium cells are constant current ie 1800 mAh for this device until battery reaches 4,05 ish volts then constant voltage until 4,2v but it seems that phone manufacturers are either calibrating the measurement data or pushing the charge rate for convenience. If the latter is true you have all the right to call it planned obsolescence if the non-existent science of overvoltage charging is correct. The most accurate way to measure battery voltage would be to probe the battery directly while charging and while fully charged with a digital multimeter