quick question - myTouch 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

quick question - myTouch 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

just wanted to ask if anyone knows if the g2 or the mytouch 4g is better? (when it comes to processor and ram and battery )

LOL. I hope you are wearing your flak jacket because you are about to get hit by 3 people telling you that this question belongs in the Q&A section and another half dozen telling you to use the search feature before posting.
(fwiw, I think the battery lasts longer on my mt4g than my wife's g2. the mt4g has more ram for running apps. the g2 has more "internal" memory but most of isn't available for installing apps nor running apps so it's practically worthless. and the mt4g has a better processor.)
http://www.google.com/phone/compare/?phone=t-mobile-mytouch-4g&phone=t-mobile-g2

kevnkate said:
LOL. I hope you are wearing your flak jacket because you are about to get hit by 3 people telling you that this question belongs in the Q&A section and another half dozen telling you to use the search feature before posting.
(fwiw, I think the battery lasts longer on my mt4g than my wife's g2. the mt4g has more ram for running apps. the g2 has more "internal" memory but most of isn't available for installing apps nor running apps so it's practically worthless. and the mt4g has a better processor.)
http://www.google.com/phone/compare/?phone=t-mobile-mytouch-4g&phone=t-mobile-g2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol has happened before but wait i heard that the g2's 800mhz beats the mytouchs 1ghz processor . that true ?

I don't know the result of the latest overclocking wars but the mt4g has a newer generation of processor than the g2 and it's 200mhz faster out of the box.

No, and the g2 has the same internal memory. The difference is it runs vanilla android and the mt4g runs mysense. All the bloat in mysense takes up a lot more space.
Same gen scorpion processor running 200Mhz faster.
My MyGlacier 4G MINE!!!

grankin01 said:
No, and the g2 has the same internal memory. The difference is it runs vanilla android and the mt4g runs mysense. All the bloat in mysense takes up a lot more space.
Same gen scorpion processor running 200Mhz faster.
My MyGlacier 4G MINE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is the mytouch keyboard easy to use bc i txt alot ? lol
and oh okay cool but once overclocked the mytouch stays the faster and longer lasting battery ?

I had the g2 also and I can say battery life is alot better with the mt4g. As for typing, I find the stock keyboard is pretty easy to use. When you go landscape you can use both thumbs perfectly. The only gripe I have is in landscape the comma and space bar are to close together.
My MyGlacier 4G MINE!!!

You've just been served. Post questions in Q&A section next time.

Just to clarify about the ram - the g2 only has 512mb of execution ram and the mt4g has 768mb. They both have approximately the same size partition of install ram (just over 1gb).
The g2 actually has more overall internal ram but over 2gb of it isn't available for running apps nor installing apps - it's basically wasted and useless. There are threads about it over in the g2 forum and htc and tmobile have some lame excuses about why it isn't available but they continue to show specs for the g2 with over 4gb total internal ram when in reality less than 2gb can actually be used for anything.
So, ultimately, the mt4g has an edge if you are just talking total usable ram for execution and install space.

Also, the google comparison link I posted above points out that they have different processors. The mt4g has an msm8255 processor and the g2 has the msm7230.
Between the g2 and mt4g:
Best ram = mt4g
Best processor = mt4g
Best battery = probably mt4g but no definitive proof of that
I like the g2 a lot but the only real advantages is has offer mt4g are vanilla android and physical keyboard (if those things matter to you). Mt4g has numerous advantages including ram, processor, ffc, maybe battery, and at some point the docking will be better since we have the docking contact points on the side of mt4g while g2 will always have to plug into micro usb.

kevnkate said:
Just to clarify about the ram - the g2 only has 512mb of execution ram and the mt4g has 768mb. They both have approximately the same size partition of install ram (just over 1gb).
The g2 actually has more overall internal ram but over 2gb of it isn't available for running apps nor installing apps - it's basically wasted and useless. There are threads about it over in the g2 forum and htc and tmobile have some lame excuses about why it isn't available but they continue to show specs for the g2 with over 4gb total internal ram when in reality less than 2gb can actually be used for anything.
So, ultimately, the mt4g has an edge if you are just talking total usable ram for execution and install space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kevnkate said:
Also, the google comparison link I posted above points out that they have different processors. The mt4g has an msm8255 processor and the g2 has the msm7230.
Between the g2 and mt4g:
Best ram = mt4g
Best processor = mt4g
Best battery = probably mt4g but no definitive proof of that
I like the g2 a lot but the only real advantages is has offer mt4g are vanilla android and physical keyboard (if those things matter to you). Mt4g has numerous advantages including ram, processor, ffc, maybe battery, and at some point the docking will be better since we have the docking contact points on the side of mt4g while g2 will always have to plug into micro usb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't comparing the system ram but yes it does have 256Mb more than the G2. I actually meant that the space on the eMMC chip for both devices is the same and they both have (possibly) had that space cut in half in favor of increased performance for reads and writes. These chips have (possibly) been irreversibly programmed as SLC (Single Level Cell) which actually helps stability, makes faster reads/writes, and possibly more reads/writes. Therefore, they both have 4GB chips that have (possibly) been programmed as SLC (except for a few tiny partitions like the radio, etc.) leaving roughly 2GB as usable space. The G2 has roughly 1.2GB left after OS install and the MT4G has roughly 960MB after OS install. Considering the fact that the MT4G MySense rom is about 312MB compressed (before install) and the G2 Vanilla rom is about 124MB compressed (before install) you can see where that 200 and some MB has gone.
As for the processor, I never said it had the same processor I simply stated that it had the same generation processor. The MSM7230 and the MSM8255 are both second generation snapdragon processors. Here is a link if you would like to read a little more on it:
http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html
If it doesn't come right up with the information just click the "Product Details" tab and scroll down a little after it loads.
Also, (not that it makes it any better) the battery has 100mAh more than the G2. The G2 has 1300mAh and the MT4G has 1400mAh.

Good points! We seem to be more interested in this thread than the original poster. Lol
You really can't go wrong with either phone. I think if your going to run stock then mt4g has a significant edge. If you're going to install custom roms and over-clock then the mt4g loses some of its lead but I think it is still slightly ahead.

There is one big advantage the g2 has that we've been overlooking. On xda the g2 doesn't have separate boards for q&a and general. So it's easier to post. Lol

kevnkate said:
The g2 actually has more overall internal ram but over 2gb of it isn't available for running apps nor installing apps - it's basically wasted and useless. There are threads about it over in the g2 forum and htc and tmobile have some lame excuses about why it isn't available but they continue to show specs for the g2 with over 4gb total internal ram when in reality less than 2gb can actually be used for anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have to find these and read. I was curious as to why devs couldn't 'unearth' the extra space.

daryllh said:
I'll have to find these and read. I was curious as to why devs couldn't 'unearth' the extra space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found the reason. Interesting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=HTC_Vision#The_Missing_2GB

kevnkate said:
Good points! We seem to be more interested in this thread than the original poster. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're right, LOL. A good debate is actually an excellent learning to for all involved, audience and participants.
I can honestly live with the eMMC being cut in half like that based on the performance edge it will give all the devices that use this particular technology. That coupled with the extra system ram and "nerd strength" processor should make this an awesome platform for the custom side of the fence. That is, once the devs get their hands on a device to Frankenstein the crap out of.
BTW, I had a G2 and I loved the phone but I couldn't put up with the random reboots (which I think were fixed with the OTA they received) and the loose z-hinge. The loose z-hinge made me look like a circus attraction every once in a while as I would go to pick the phone up off the dash of my yard tractor and then juggle it for about 10 or 15 seconds trying not to let it "jump" out of my hands. If you don't grab it just right it develops a mind of its own, LOL.

grankin01 said:
I think you're right, LOL. A good debate is actually an excellent learning to for all involved, audience and participants.
I can honestly live with the eMMC being cut in half like that based on the performance edge it will give all the devices that use this particular technology. That coupled with the extra system ram and "nerd strength" processor should make this an awesome platform for the custom side of the fence. That is, once the devs get their hands on a device to Frankenstein the crap out of.
BTW, I had a G2 and I loved the phone but I couldn't put up with the random reboots (which I think were fixed with the OTA they received) and the loose z-hinge. The loose z-hinge made me look like a circus attraction every once in a while as I would go to pick the phone up off the dash of my yard tractor and then juggle it for about 10 or 15 seconds trying not to let it "jump" out of my hands. If you don't grab it just right it develops a mind of its own, LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with you. Debate/discussion is a great learning tool for everyone.
I too had a G2 before trading it in for the MT4G. It was a fantastic decision. I have had many phones over the years and the MT4G is probably the best I've owned.
Having had numerous Blackberries before jumping ship and going Droid, I thought having a physical qwerty kb was something I couldn't live without. The Evo was a nice phone but too chunky for my taste. I then purchased the G2 thinking that the KB would be perfect. Then I found Smart Keyboard Pro in the Market and realized that it had auto-text features exactly like the BB's and ended up never using the physical kb at all.
When the MT4G launch date was announced I knew I had to check it out. After testing it out for over an hour in-store, I was sold. Swapped phones that day.
I apparently got one with a good display and centered FFC, no creaking buttons etc. I seem to have been lucky.
As far as memory (RAM), after all is said and done (rooting, freezing apps etc) I normally have 300MB of free mem. I have 72 apps installed (some on phone, most on SD card) and still have 968.8MB free
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The phone runs incredibly fast and stable with no rebooting issues or lag. It's fast. Sure you can overclock the G2 and get great Quadrant scores. But with setCPU installed and a couple 'underclock' profiles set up, I can actually get 2 days of power-user use out of my MT4G. Overclocking is cool if you wanna show off in front of your friends, but for power-users like myself, 2 days of use is better than looking cool. I use my phone for business and personal, not gaming and goofing around.
I have customized the phone exactly the way I want the UI and couldn't be happier.

Lol I'm interestedd but after hearing your points I went straight to T-Mobile to order it but guys I like flashing rom's and stuff so is the mytouch still the better phone?
And as for the overclocking, who has the advantage?
And if I'm right don't it lower your battery life?

Related

News on the Wizard

Ok here is a quick round up of the news that is currently available on this device. For anyone who doesnt know the wizard looks like it is going to be the follow up to the magician. Size wise it is almost identical except the wizard looks like it is going to be a touch thicker than the magician. However this is forgiven as this extra thickness is due to the addition of a sideways slide out keyboard (see pic) This will please many owners of the magician who have found text input a little to fiddly on this device. It is rumoured that the device will be made available in a number of different versions i.e. some with a camera some without etc. However it is generally thought that the specs for the various models run along the lines of a 200MHz OMAP processor (hmm i hope that is quicker than it sounds?! :shock: ), GPRS/EDGE, built in WiFi and Bluetooth. The scrren size is 240x320 and it runs on WM5!
It is already expected that the device will be sold under various different brandings. Many of the pics floating around the internet show the device branded as Qtek 9100. It is also almost 100% confirmed that orange will offer the wizard as the SPV M600 and it could hit the shelves as early as september!!! No doubt the other opperators will also offer the phone under various different names!
Phone Scoop reports that the HTC Wizard has passed FCC certification, and the submitted version has 850 and 1900MHz support which is good news for those in the us.
Pics are courtesy of WindowsMobile.no and there are many more available HERE
And there is a video available HERE which is also thanks to those good people at WindowsMobile.no
Enjoy:
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Tom 8)

but it's cpu speed is 175mhz.

Hmm Edge ... No use in UK then for Imternet speed

There are also pictures of a CDMA version. Sprint is calling it the PPC-6700 and it should be out before the end of October.
Report with pics on PCSintel.

SaltyDawg said:
There are also pictures of a CDMA version. Sprint is calling it the PPC-6700 and it should be out before the end of October.
Report with pics on PCSintel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PhoneArena has an article on the CDMA implying a fast Intel processor, not the slow TI everyone is concerned about:
http://phonearena.com/htmls/HTC-Apache-the-CDMA-version-of-the-Wizard-article-a_643.html

i'm gonna cry
see my sig? i thought it was enough compensation that the wizard has a slow processor - won't make me sad that i didn't wait for it. now this CDMA version will really make me cry. BTW is CDMA = 3G? currently doing a google search on this. and how comparable is its size compared to the magician/non cdma-wizard? i mean, the size might change because of the antenna, but i want to know by how much.
(i forgot one more thing, hence the editing)
would've been excellent if only the screen slides out, so it looks like the sidekick. awkwardly off-center screen. but i can live with that.

CDMA itself is not 3G, no. But the CDMA carriers in the USA have EVDO, which is a 3G technology. So, CDMA is not 3G, but if it's CDMA in the USA it means it will be 3G, assuming it supports EVDO.
On the size, look at the picture showing it next to the Samsung i730. It's the same size. Too bad it has a big, fat antenna. But not counting the antenna, it's the same size as the Samsung i730.

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=555794&native_or_pdf=pdf
Nice to know

yeah it looks good, i may replace my mda compact, but the processor is the only thing at tho that may let the device down :?:
info on the omap850 chip
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wt...00&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850

Rumor has it that the CDMA version (Sprint PPC-6700) does have EVDO, which (like SaltyDawg said) is 3G.

when it release?
So sounds the slow processor not gonna to support Skype then? as Skype has to run on at least 400Mhz CPU...
ANy idea when it gonna to release? cheers

question for those who really know: would the omap 850 really be uber slow compared to intel's xscales? i mean doesn't the omap works like 'dual processors'? one for phone and one for pda function (i read this somewhere just can't remember it) and doesn't it consume less power? any insight would be appreciated.

bnycastro said:
question for those who really know: would the omap 850 really be uber slow compared to intel's xscales? i mean doesn't the omap works like 'dual processors'? one for phone and one for pda function (i read this somewhere just can't remember it) and doesn't it consume less power? any insight would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on which Xscale are we talking about. Compared to the outgoing [email protected] MHz, well... I can assume its slowness is marginal, but compared to the existing PXA27x... It's a no contest. AFAIK, anything OMAP in three digit equals to bad anything... It's not even dual core, like everyone believed it is.
Again, AFAIK, the dual core OMAP uses 4 digit naming scheme, like the 1510 on the iPAQ 6300 series and the Tungsten T. Just check it at the official Texas Instrument site.
I am very much hoping that HTC Wizard will replace my Treo 650... I have bad memories with my Blue Angel almost a year ago... But since then, I couldn't live without integrated QWERTY keyboard. The only replacement good enough for me is the iPAQ 6500 series, but I can trek places where no PDA-Phone ever gone before with my Treo, as it has 1800 mAH battery capacity.
This processor fiasco has me think again about buying the Wizard. But we shall see in the near future about the truth.

Hrm, yep... seems that it is only a single core: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wt...00&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850... Again, I think this is a non-issue since its only _really_ going to matter for things such as Skype where the phone AND the PDA side of things need to be working together. For stuff like web browsing, IM, planners etc... it should be more than enough (at least compared to a damned Symbian Nokia which runs at 103MHz).
In a way I see the slow processor as a blessing (though, watch as I eat my words when the thing actually arrives) - keeping it at a slower clock speed means the battery will last longer. Couple this with the fact that it uses WM5.0 which has persistent storage and this means we should be looking at a pretty good battery life, or they'll have provided us with a really lame battery to save money *shrugs*.

ShALLaX said:
Hrm, yep... seems that it is only a single core: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wt...00&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_850... Again, I think this is a non-issue since its only _really_ going to matter for things such as Skype where the phone AND the PDA side of things need to be working together. For stuff like web browsing, IM, planners etc... it should be more than enough (at least compared to a damned Symbian Nokia which runs at 103MHz).
In a way I see the slow processor as a blessing (though, watch as I eat my words when the thing actually arrives) - keeping it at a slower clock speed means the battery will last longer. Couple this with the fact that it uses WM5.0 which has persistent storage and this means we should be looking at a pretty good battery life, or they'll have provided us with a really lame battery to save money *shrugs*.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand your comment here; the datasheet clearly shows that the OMAP 850 is a dual-core CPU. The "primary" core is an ARM926 which will be used to run the OS, apps, etc. The "secondary" core is actually a multi-core which contains an ARM7 coupled with a C54 DSP to do all GSM/GPRS baseband processing.
True, only a single core will be used for the OS, but with Xscale phone designs a single core handles BOTH the OS and the GSM processing.
On another note, it makes little sense to compare CPUs of two different architectures (Xscale and OMAP) solely by their clock speeds, as in many cases the amount of work that can be performed on one CPU in a given clock cycle is different than another CPU.
Given that the "primary" core on the OMAP 850 is dediciated 100% to the OS, along with it's dual-core nature allowing to simultaneously process the GSM baseband and the OS, I think this CPU is up to the task. I don't think it will outperform the Xscale (especially at higher clock speeds), but I don't think it's gonna be a dog either.

Hah, you're right... I read ARM7 MCU as ARM9 MCU and assumed it was just the Memory Control Unit for the ARM9 processor... then I looked again and saw that there is a memory control unit for both processors in another layer (that and the fact that a memory control unit in the GSM/GPRS controller makes no damned sense at all). My bad, I'm ill with a fever in bed at the moment so cut me some slack ;p
So yes, we have an ARM7 and an ARM926...
Even though it isnt technically fair to compare the processors on clock-speed alone, we still know the OMAP will lose out because Xscale is a technological advancement... plain "ARM9" will be slower.
I agree with you, I dont think it will be terrible. I made do with a 133MHz SH-3 device for a good few years... and SH3 processors were horribly slow.

my head is spinning but I do thank you for your informed replies! so it is dual core afterall... that's re-assuring I read in a preview in one of the dutch/swedish/netherlands (not sure which) ethusiast site that it was zippy... but then again they might have not loaded it with alot of stuff. I also saw the video at WM.no and it seemed zippy... really waiting for a full review from our friends with fast access to cool new gadgets.... yooohooo!

Yeah, thanks for the info.... I apologize then, I couldn't read out the schematics on the TI site, I just look at the navigation tab and saw that the OMAP 850 falls in the category of Modems and Applications, where as the OMAP 1510 falls in the category of High-Performance... So based on that I extract an assumption, TI reserved the dual core chip for their higher performing chipset.
I agree wholeheartedly with OMAP as the most efficient (power wise) proc available today though. But I'd prefer [email protected] powering the wizard... At least I have tried overclocking my Treo to 400MHz without any problem... I expect my next Windows Mobile powered device to be powerfull yet still manage a full day's of usage.
It's basically down to the usage of the device. Probably HTC did a research a while back that Magician user doesn't fully utilised their device to the max, so that HTC can cut production cost by a little for using the TI processors... Well, that's my two cent. At least all Magician user here in my country are ladies and girls who doesn't know how to reset the device... Left alone installed something... They just use the device as-is.

-
123

wow that's great news for you guys over there in the US! wish we had the same news here... but I'd suspect we'd be a bit late as usual!

Browser lag/memory leak solution thread.

I'm currently running Zmod4 with Cognition B7, and almost everything seems to work perfectly for me. (Thank you DG and everyone else! Your work is nothing short of amazing!) I always install from a reset back to stock via Odin and complete wipe/master clear and have tried about every Rom when it becomes available. Everything usually installs perfectly and this setup was no exception. I do notice that the interface is smoother and the phone runs quicker in general with the ZMod4, but the lag is still there in the browser. It's not a placebo effect for me because I have Cog 2.1.4 on a friends Captivate at work as well as another friend that I have set up with a SRE with overclock and after every different setup I try, I always compare the browsers.
No matter which rom or configuration I am running the browsers on 2.1 based roms are always faster. They load a little faster which doesn't really bother me, its when you try to scroll up and down the heavier content pages that you get the hitches and lag. I've even tried different variations of the libwebcore.so files. Can't seem to get it running as smooth as 2.1. I figured it must have something to do with the fact that this is a leaked version of Froyo, but the same problem is persisting with others in the I9000 forum with the official release so I'm a little discouraged. The lag and hitches that I get, especially in larger content pages like engadget, pocketnow, huffingtonpost, etc. kinda drives me crazy when I see with my own eyes the browsers running completely smooth on the 2.1 setups.
I'm hoping with all the expertise and brain power we have amassed here in the developers section that someone may be able to figure out a way to fix this.
As a band aid to the real problem, I've tried running autokiller to free up more available memory with pretty limited results.

Why couldn't you just have continued discussion in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=803370
It's barely on MY page 2..

People usually disagree with me but I even found scrolling on busy webpages to be slower on my Nexus One with froyo vs eclair. This is with plugins either on demand or disabled.
I wouldn't expect it to get much better until scrolling/panning is offloaded to the GPU. Which should come first with Opera Mobile and hopefully the stock browser will support it in Gingerbread.
According to google engineers, the slow scrolling and hitching is due in part to garbage collection which ties up the CPU and keeps scrolling from being smooth.

Or maybe its because our froyo is leaked software?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

SkitchBeatz said:
Or maybe its because our froyo is leaked software?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this^ at least wait til froyo is released on the captivate before saying this.

maybe Flash is loading or something

richierich1212 said:
maybe Flash is loading or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried it both ways, flash on and flash completely disabled. Its better when disabled of course, but still far more laggy than it should be. I don't think a lot of people notice it because:
A. many people don't frequently go to sites that have enough content to dramatically slow the browser down and most of all........
B. Almost no one has two, let alone three different Captivates available, each running a different Rom to get a side by side comparison so its harder to see and measure the real world difference.
Maybe my expectations are too high but I do frequent larger web sites and I know that the browser does not have the lag on the 2.1 roms so it irritates the bejeesum out of me.

Id imagine the more active content on web pages due to flash 10.1 is going have an effect on scroll speed. Ive seen the same thing on an OCed droid. I havent played with cog 2.2 much as i really enjoy how smooth 2.1.7 is and didnt even need to OC it. Now that they have a new lagfix for 2.2 im thinking about flashing 2.2 again.

\/icious said:
Id imagine the more active content on web pages due to flash 10.1 is going have an effect on scroll speed. Ive seen the same thing on an OCed droid. I havent played with cog 2.2 much as i really enjoy how smooth 2.1.7 is and didnt even need to OC it. Now that they have a new lagfix for 2.2 im thinking about flashing 2.2 again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments made it occur to me that while I have "disabled" flash in the browser settings, I've never completly tried to uninstall it....so I just did. With TiBu, so I'll run it this way for a bit and see what the real world effects are and report back.

FWIW, I didn't see a difference in scrolling between having plugins disabled and uninstalling Flash on my Nexus One. Haven't tried it on my Captivate for that reason.

dalingrin said:
People usually disagree with me but I even found scrolling on busy webpages to be slower on my Nexus One with froyo vs eclair. This is with plugins either on demand or disabled.
I wouldn't expect it to get much better until scrolling/panning is offloaded to the GPU. Which should come first with Opera Mobile and hopefully the stock browser will support it in Gingerbread.
According to google engineers, the slow scrolling and hitching is due in part to garbage collection which ties up the CPU and keeps scrolling from being smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is straight up discouraging. I thought it was just Samsung's crappy Froyo leaks, but this makes it sound like the Froyo browser just doesn't scroll as smoothly as the 2.1 browser.

I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free

di11igaf said:
I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, what they did is pretty deceiving. I usually had more free memory on my Aria and it only had 384 MB of RAM.

di11igaf said:
I think something that kinda pisses me off with this browser hogging ram is the other problem that doesn't get brought up very much and when it does its shot down. The missing 208mb of ram that is supposedly being used by the gpu or whatever (I forget what I heard). With a browser that can easily creep up on 100 mb's of used ram with pages open and with give or take 150 mb's free at boot right there your down in the red zone where things start to lag. And the launcher takes 20 mb's so now your down to 30 free mob's. God forbid you wanna play angry birds too, you'd be screwed. So that makes multitasking not as efficient as it should be if we had the lost 208mb's. I do like this phone but I'm not real happy with Samsung. The galaxy s phones were advertised with 512 mb's, that's what we should get. People use to say that it would be available when froyo came out since eclair couldn't use all of the ram. Well here it is officially out on the i9000 and were still stuck with 304mb's.
Sorry about the rant. The only thing I miss from my iPhone 4 was booting it up and having 350 mb's free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
On top of this, let's discuss the potential that maybe NONE of the RAM is set aside for the GPU and it runs itself. The complaint about a lack of the full 512 is also hard to discuss because HIGHMEM support was only added in 2.2 to have the full access to 512. Just because the potential to enable in 2.2 exists, doesn't mean they're taking advantage of it. I'd like to believe they are, so again, that drops back to the ~100 MB taken up by the GSM radio/phone functionality. As for whether this is "too much," that's not really up to you unless you want to go ahead and build a ROM from scratch. It's in the best interest of the company who made the phone to err on the side of caution and give it too much than too little. On top of that, the core OS allocates itself to set areas of RAM that you also can't change because man that would be stupid if they let you (want to see your phone crash? try to kill a process that controls the OS).
Basically, the RAM is there, we just don't have full userland access to all of it, it's pointless to complain. If it bugs you, take a stab at fixing it and prove you're better than samsung and make your own ROM.

I've looked high and low for a definitive answer on where the "missing" RAM is. I havent found one yet. I guess samsung would need to weigh in on that. But I do know that on my captivate going into quadrant system info says we have 311,xxx KB's of memory available to Android OS. A coworker has a verizon fascinate, his has 332,xxx KB's of memory. Another coworker has a droid incredible and his has 422,xxx KB's of memory. They all start with 512MB and obviously some of it is partitioned off and reserved for other functions such as GPU, ram disk, radio, etc.

derek4484 said:
I've looked high and low for a definitive answer on where the "missing" RAM is. I havent found one yet. I guess samsung would need to weigh in on that. But I do know that on my captivate going into quadrant system info says we have 311,xxx KB's of memory available to Android OS. A coworker has a verizon fascinate, his has 332,xxx KB's of memory. Another coworker has a droid incredible and his has 422,xxx KB's of memory. They all start with 512MB and obviously some of it is partitioned off and reserved for other functions such as GPU, ram disk, radio, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we definitely have 512 MB of RAM. Samsung just seems to reserve more of it for other as yet unknown functions than other manufacturers.

Kaik541 said:
The Galaxy S phones indeed have 512 MB of RAM. As for whether part of that is allocated by GPU (of which I believe no more than 32-64 MB must be for that), you still have to consider that android as an operating system sets aside a VERY LARGE chunk of RAM just for radio. It would be VERY STUPID of a phone to not set aside more than enough RAM to make sure the radio *always* gets top priority. Also, complaining about RAM getting "filled up" is a moot argument to begin with. Android honestly allocates RAM as fast as possible. It WANTS RAM to be as filled as possible, leaving between 50-75 MB free. If you use a task killer and kill everything, yeah you'll jump back up to 200+ MB free, but android will reallocate that memory just as fast to something else because that's what the OS is designed to do.
So, say we set aside 64 MB of RAM for VRAM, 128 MB for the GSM radio and other vital-to-operation-and-functionality processes that are specifically reserved and untouchable by us (these numbers are pulled out of my ass, for all I know the VRAM is 128 MB and the GSM only uses 75 MB... the point still stands) that drops us down to the ~300 MB range for user accessible functionality. Also, the browser RAM/smoothness issue you're referring to is a BUG because the froyo build is NON-FINAL, complaining about that is like saying "my knees hurt when I drag them on the ground." I assume this is something they will try to improve before final release, but I don't know, maybe they consider it "good enough."
On top of this, let's discuss the potential that maybe NONE of the RAM is set aside for the GPU and it runs itself. The complaint about a lack of the full 512 is also hard to discuss because HIGHMEM support was only added in 2.2 to have the full access to 512. Just because the potential to enable in 2.2 exists, doesn't mean they're taking advantage of it. I'd like to believe they are, so again, that drops back to the ~100 MB taken up by the GSM radio/phone functionality. As for whether this is "too much," that's not really up to you unless you want to go ahead and build a ROM from scratch. It's in the best interest of the company who made the phone to err on the side of caution and give it too much than too little. On top of that, the core OS allocates itself to set areas of RAM that you also can't change because man that would be stupid if they let you (want to see your phone crash? try to kill a process that controls the OS).
Basically, the RAM is there, we just don't have full userland access to all of it, it's pointless to complain. If it bugs you, take a stab at fixing it and prove you're better than samsung and make your own ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The official 2.2 release is out for the i9000 is out and it has a total of 304 mb of ram. The os takes a big chunk of this so with nothing running the most that is possible to access EVER for programs is about 170mb. Your launcher takes 20. The browser even on 2.1 with a couple of large pages loaded can easily take 100 mb. That leaves you with maybe 50mb available if you lucky. This is when things might get a little slow and the os will start killing off processes as it sees fit. So if you have a game open that you want to keep open in the background it wont. It will kill it which makes muttitasking very poor on a phone where its supposed to be above the rest. The point is we only have around 170 mb's available to the user. That's pretty ****ty. This is on the OFFICIAL froyo release for the i9000 and I highly doubt it will change for us. There is 208 mb's that are missing that should be user accessible. I don't care what uses it the fact is that I can't. The phone was advertised with 512 ram not 304 mb's with 208 vram or whatever. I traded an iphone 4 in for this phone and I still think that was a great decision as I love this phone. But at least when I booted my iphone 4 I had at least 350mb's of user accessible ram which we will not see. We have half of that and I think that sucks. Sorry for stating my opinion. Here's my old phone not even after a fresh boot and I could access all of it
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di11igaf said:
The official 2.2 release is out for the i9000 is out and it has a total of 304 mb of ram. The os takes a big chunk of this so with nothing running the most that is possible to access EVER for programs is about 170mb. Your launcher takes 20. The browser even on 2.1 with a couple of large pages loaded can easily take 100 mb. That leaves you with maybe 50mb available if you lucky. This is when things might get a little slow and the os will start killing off processes as it sees fit. So if you have a game open that you want to keep open in the background it wont. It will kill it which makes muttitasking very poor on a phone where its supposed to be above the rest. The point is we only have around 170 mb's available to the user. That's pretty ****ty. This is on the OFFICIAL froyo release for the i9000 and I highly doubt it will change for us. There is 208 mb's that are missing that should be user accessible. I don't care what uses it the fact is that I can't. The phone was advertised with 512 ram not 304 mb's with 208 vram or whatever. I traded an iphone 4 in for this phone and I still think that was a great decision as I love this phone. But at least when I booted my iphone 4 I had at least 350mb's of user accessible ram which we will not see. We have half of that and I think that sucks. Sorry for stating my opinion. Here's my old phone not even after a fresh boot and I could access all of it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
blah blah blah, same old story. also, if you read, the JPM release got pulled and they're pushing a later release toward the start of November. Also, I included the option that the final release only gives 304 MB RAM to userland. if you're just going to ignore all my comments, then feel free. this is like complaining that you bought a computer with 2 GB of RAM and are mad that Windows says "I'm going to take 500 MB of that and run in there." go ahead, kill those windows processes and watch the system crumble... same thing on our phones. you're also ignoring the fact that I never said "208 mb to vram," good for you for getting just about everything else I said wrong. on top of that, comparing the iphone (a BSD-based mobile OS) against android (a linux-based mobile OS running inside a dalvik java VM) is like saying "why are burritos more filling than these peanuts?" iOS is designed to run on ONE base hardware by ONE base manufacturer, android is modular and designed to work on a VARIETY of platforms and tweaked as the manufacturer wants to.
Samsung advertises the phone with 512 MB of RAM, there is 512 MB of RAM in the phone. Where in their advertising ANYWHERE does it says "512 MB of userland RAM access"? You have nothing worth complaining about. If you miss your free RAM so much, go back to iphone or get a device that doesn't set aside so much of the RAM for *radio* (notice this word, radio, not VRAM... hell I even posited an option that says samsung may not be including the VRAM from the total at all). if you're upset your phone only grants you permission to 3/5ths of your total RAM, get a phone that doesn't. you aren't being "robbed," the hardware is there, it's Samsung's decision to set aside as much as they want for whatever they want. YOU CHOOSE TO ENCOURAGE THIS DECISION BY BUYING THEIR PRODUCT. If you don't like it, return the product, vote with your wallet. Get a device that allows more userland access to RAM and quit your *****ing and moaning.

Is HummingBird Really Slower than Snapdragon Gen 2? [Independent of JIT]

I know this topic has been debates over time but I noticed that most people attributed the differences in performance is caused by firmware difference (2.1 vs. 2.2).
Today there's an article release about G2 overlock to 1.42 Ghz. Along with the article I noticed "Native Benchmark" using SetCPU which doesn't uses JIT.
Lower is Better.
G2 Result:
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Now My Vibrant at 1.2 Ghz:
C: 702.89
Neon: 283.15
The difference between the two phone is so great that I doubt it is due to the 200 MHz difference alone.
As a comparison, my score at regular 1 GHz is:
C: 839.21
Neon: 334.51
There is about 130 ms decrease for 200 Mhz overclock, which is Vibrant is at 1.4 Ghz would put the two CPU really close to each other but with G2 having a slight edge. Remember this test is suppose to be JIT independent running Native Codes. But since the vibrant can only be stable overclocked to 1.3 Ghz (what is available anyways), the newer generation of Snapdragon may just be more efficient than Hummingbird, despite us the galaxy owner believes otherwise.
Another thing to keep in mind though, is that Snapdragon are supposedly to have an edge in Neon instruction Set, so I didn't look into that score too much.

It appears to be true.
It appears Hummingbird is not only slower than the new Generation Scorpions, it also appears the Hummingbird is unable to fully capture the CPU performance gain of the Dalvik JIT compiler in Froyo 2.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAZYSVr2Bhc

Dunno Something Is Not Right About This 2.2
The Thing That Really Bugs Me Is 2.2 is Suppose To Allow The Full Functionality Of Our 512MB of Ram..But It Doesn't

Erickomen27 said:
Dunno Something Is Not Right About This 2.2
The Thing That Really Bugs Me Is 2.2 is Suppose To Allow The Full Functionality Of Our 512MB of Ram..But It Doesn't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not 2.2, its Samsung.

SamsungVibrant said:
It's not 2.2, its Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, they should use ext 4 on their phones.
I don't see why they would stick to their old RFS.

SamsungVibrant said:
It appears Hummingbird is not only slower than the new Generation Scorpions, it also appears the Hummingbird is unable to fully capture the CPU performance gain of the Dalvik JIT compiler in Froyo 2.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAZYSVr2Bhc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but could you explain what your youtube link has to do with the topic? I'm curious, as I wasn't any wiser on the question at hand when I watched it.

NEON is architecture extension for the ARM Cortex™-A series processors*
Is Snapdragon an ARM Cortex™-A series processor? NO!
Remember SSE instruction set in Intel, and the war AMD vs Intel?
Welcome back, LOL
*The source for NEON: http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/neon.php

Probably is, but does it really matter?
Sent from my SGS Vibrant.

Scorpion/Snapdragon have faster FPU performance due to a 128 bit SIMD FPU datapath compared to Cortex-A8's 64 bit implementation. Both FPUs process the same SIMD-style instructions, the Scorpion/snapdragon just happens to be able to do twice as much.
http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/t...ualcomm-Reveals-Details-on-Scorpion-Core.aspx
2.2 isnt going to magically give the galaxy S similar scorpion/snapdragon high scores
just look at droidX and other Cortex-A8 phones that already have official 2.2 ROMS they avr 15-20 linpack scores
This doesn't make the hummingbird a bad CPU at all LOL its stupid benchmarks IMHO not going to show in realword use...maybe when the OS matures and becomes more complex but not now..and even by then we will have dualcore CPU's...its a gimmick for HTC to have the "Fastest CPU"
IMO in real world use they are pretty much on par but then when you look at GPU performance its quit obvious the galaxy S pulls ahead thanks to the 90mts PowerVR SGX540

demo23019 said:
Scorpion/Snapdragon have faster FPU performance due to a 128 bit SIMD FPU datapath compared to Cortex-A8's 64 bit implementation. Both FPUs process the same SIMD-style instructions, the Scorpion/snapdragon just happens to be able to do twice as much.
http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/t...ualcomm-Reveals-Details-on-Scorpion-Core.aspx
2.2 isnt going to magically give the galaxy S similar scorpion/snapdragon high scores
just look at droidX and other Cortex-A8 phones that already have official 2.2 ROMS they avr 15-20 linpack scores
This doesn't make the hummingbird a bad CPU at all LOL its stupid benchmarks IMHO not going to show in realword use...maybe when the OS matures and becomes more complex but not now..and even by then we will have dualcore CPU's...its a gimmick for HTC to have the "Fastest CPU"
IMO in real world use they are pretty much on par but then when you look at GPU performance its quit obvious the galaxy S pulls ahead thanks to the 90mts PowerVR SGX540
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again quoting ARM HQ website:
NEON technology is cleanly architected and works seamlessly with its own independent pipeline and register file.
NEON technology is a 128 bit SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) architecture extension for the ARM Cortex™-A series processors, designed to provide flexible and powerful acceleration for consumer multimedia applications, delivering a significantly enhanced user experience. It has 32 registers, 64-bits wide (dual view as 16 registers, 128-bits wide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scorpion is not ARM Cortex™-A series processor

Fuskand said:
I'm sorry, but could you explain what your youtube link has to do with the topic? I'm curious, as I wasn't any wiser on the question at hand when I watched it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I provided the link, because the first part of the link talks about the JIT compiler which increases CPU performance. I put that there in-case someone has never heard of this before. Thus, when I mentioned the Hummingbird can not take full advantage of the JIT compiler, someone would know what I'm talking about.

demo23019 said:
Scorpion/Snapdragon have faster FPU performance due to a 128 bit SIMD FPU datapath compared to Cortex-A8's 64 bit implementation. Both FPUs process the same SIMD-style instructions, the Scorpion/snapdragon just happens to be able to do twice as much.
http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/t...ualcomm-Reveals-Details-on-Scorpion-Core.aspx
2.2 isnt going to magically give the galaxy S similar scorpion/snapdragon high scores
just look at droidX and other Cortex-A8 phones that already have official 2.2 ROMS they avr 15-20 linpack scores
This doesn't make the hummingbird a bad CPU at all LOL its stupid benchmarks IMHO not going to show in realword use...maybe when the OS matures and becomes more complex but not now..and even by then we will have dualcore CPU's...its a gimmick for HTC to have the "Fastest CPU"
IMO in real world use they are pretty much on par but then when you look at GPU performance its quit obvious the galaxy S pulls ahead thanks to the 90mts PowerVR SGX540
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search the net, people have made real world Videos of galaxy s running 2.2, compared to G2. The G2 is faster in the real world on things like launching aps.

lqaddict said:
Once again quoting ARM HQ website:
Scorpion is not ARM Cortex™-A series processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL i never said the scorpion is ARM Cortex™-A
try reading my post again
SamsungVibrant said:
Search the net, people have made real world Videos of galaxy s running 2.2, compared to G2. The G2 is faster in the real world on things like launching aps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOl if it is faster it might be by the most 1-2 sec if its lucky
sorry its going to take allot more than that to impress me..again its a phone now a highend PC

SamsungVibrant said:
Search the net, people have made real world Videos of galaxy s running 2.2, compared to G2. The G2 is faster in the real world on things like launching aps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Due to different filesystem implementation largely, once there is a workable hack to convert the entire filesystem on the Galaxy S to a real filesystem you can make the comparison of the things like launching apps.
Demo, I didn't mean to come off as a **** I was just pointing out the flaw in the OP benchmark - NEON instruction set execution is flawed. G2 processor is ARMv7 which is the base of Cortex-A8, Cortex-A8 adds the instructions specifically targeted for application, like multimedia, and that's where NEON comes into place.

lqaddict said:
Due to different filesystem implementation largely, once there is a workable hack to convert the entire filesystem on the Galaxy S to a real filesystem you can make the comparison of the things like launching apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. +10 char

lqaddict said:
Demo, I didn't mean to come off as a **** I was just pointing out the flaw in the OP benchmark - NEON instruction set execution is flawed. G2 processor is ARMv7 which is the base of Cortex-A8, Cortex-A8 adds the instructions specifically targeted for application, like multimedia, and that's where NEON comes into place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem I didn't really take it
Also noticed i overlooks allot of things in OP...blame the ADD

What difference does it make? In real world use the difference is negligible. And in three months our phones will be mid-tier anyway. At least we don't have hinges that will fall apart in two months.

how is the hummingbird not able to fully take advantage of JIT?

Well there is a fix for our phones now. And from what I can tell there no way the g2 can open apps faster than my vibrant with the z4mod. Its smocking fast.by far the fastest I've ever seen this phone. No delays whatsoever. Can't wait till I get froyo with ocuv and this will be unreal. I feel like this phone us a high end pc running android or something. When I say instant it's instant lol.

Kubernetes said:
What difference does it make? In real world use the difference is negligible. And in three months our phones will be mid-tier anyway. At least we don't have hinges that will fall apart in two months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
People seem to forget that the SGS line is like 6 months old now, we should be glad they're still doing as well as they are.
Then theres the fact that there aren't many other phones that come with 16gb internal. To me, having 16GB and being able to upgrade to 48 [minus the 2GB that Samsung steals] total is worth way more than starting with 4GB [1.5GB usable] and upgrading to a max of 36 [minus what HTC steals from internal].
But, if you don't like your phone, SELL IT while it's still worth something!

I got to play with the Atrix yesterday...

So i'll start with the good, the screen is really nice.
The bad:
Not 4.3 even though it's higher res, it's nice to have larger size text.
I launched google maps and I wanted to see how the 2 finger rotating worked on both. It actually worked better on the EVO. You would think with a powerful cpu the atrix would be able to rotate with no lag...
Anyway, we're not missing much (It probably is better at 3D games which i don't normally do on my phone)
Edit:
I must add though that the build quality seemed excellent and it's nice size phone with perfect weight. It's a nice product don't get me wrong.

lowspeed said:
So i'll start with the good, the screen is really nice.
The bad:
Not 4.3 even though it's higher res, it's nice to have larger size text.
I launched google maps and I wanted to see how the 2 finger rotating worked on both. It actually worked better on the EVO. You would think with a powerful cpu the atrix would be able to rotate with no lag...
Anyway, we're not missing much (It probably is better at 3D games which i don't normally do on my phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you have your anti-flame forcefield on, because you are about to get thrashed with flames from every angle. The usual suspects are gonna give you the business and tell you how your opinion is not even close to being correct.......even though its your opinion. lol

Who flames in the EVO section. He just said my EVO is better. Thanks I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

novanosis85 said:
Who flames in the EVO section. He just said my EVO is better. Thanks I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wait and see....

lowspeed said:
So i'll start with the good, the screen is really nice.
The bad:
Not 4.3 even though it's higher res, it's nice to have larger size text.
I launched google maps and I wanted to see how the 2 finger rotating worked on both. It actually worked better on the EVO. You would think with a powerful cpu the atrix would be able to rotate with no lag...
Anyway, we're not missing much (It probably is better at 3D games which i don't normally do on my phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're in denial. It's a defense mechanism, so don't worry.
- My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.

The OP is spot on.
65nm single core a8 1ghz snap dragon with no name gpu > 40nm dual core a9 1ghz tegra with nvidia gpu
1500 mah battery > 1930 mah battery
512mb of ram > 1gb of ram
480x800 resolution > 960x540 resolution
1 gb of internal storage > 16 gb of internal storage
the atrix is not even close.

detusueno said:
The OP is spot on.
65nm single core a8 1ghz snap dragon with no name gpu > 40nm dual core a9 1ghz tegra with nvidia gpu
1500 mah battery > 1930 mah battery
512mb of ram > 1gb of ram
480x800 resolution > 960x540 resolution
1 gb of internal storage > 16 gb of internal storage
the atrix is not even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL.......

All I know about motorola is that their buld quality seems really solid. I don't care for Blur, but root solves that. The phone seems like a winner.
My buddy had an original Droid, was playing Pandora one day while we were about 25 feet in the air on a boom lift... dropped that sucker and all it did was pop the battery door off and scratch it a little... still worked like a charm.
Sadly, if I dropped my EVO from that Height.. it's smartphone heaven. I do still love my EVO tho

detusueno said:
The OP is spot on.
65nm single core a8 1ghz snap dragon with no name gpu > 40nm dual core a9 1ghz tegra with nvidia gpu
1500 mah battery > 1930 mah battery
512mb of ram > 1gb of ram
480x800 resolution > 960x540 resolution
1 gb of internal storage > 16 gb of internal storage
the atrix is not even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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The actual core of the cpu is an a8 cortex. I believe Google maps doesn't use much of the gpu, and Android and Android apps might not be able to make much use of multiple cores or threads.

vbetts said:
The actual core of the cpu is an a8 cortex. I believe Google maps doesn't use much of the gpu, and Android and Android apps might not be able to make much use of multiple cores or threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the tegra 2 uses cortex a9 cores. but your probably right that android currently isn't optimized for the tegra2/dual core.

Atrix suffers from one severe limitation, which for many will be a complete deal breaker - ATT + their awesome atrix premium charges for using the atrix functionality.

bet if the atrix said evo and sprint on it you would think the world of it and go into the land of iphony and preach its gospel to the unenlightened

nabbed said:
Atrix suffers from one severe limitation, which for many will be a complete deal breaker - ATT + their awesome atrix premium charges for using the atrix functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also its encrypted bootloader is definately a turn off. Wont be much development with it and it will go in the way of the milestone, droid X and other moto locked crapola.

nabbed said:
Atrix suffers from one severe limitation, which for many will be a complete deal breaker - ATT + their awesome atrix premium charges for using the atrix functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like the $10 premium data plan we pay for?

spiicytuna said:
Is that like the $10 premium data plan we pay for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...and we get 500 kb/s 3g in return. thanks sprint!

detusueno said:
...and we get 500 kb/s 3g in return. thanks sprint!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have noticed that 3g is incredibly slow, something changed. It used to be very fast.

lowspeed said:
I have noticed that 3g is incredibly slow, something changed. It used to be very fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, two years ago i used to brag about how fast sprint 3g was. gizmodo even rated them as having the fastest 3g of all carriers. then hspa+ came and t-mo/at&t passed us which was bad enough, but then sprint's 3g just took a complete nose dive over the last couple of months. what the hell is up with that? sprint's 3g is no where near as competitive with anyone anymore.

NewZJ said:
bet if the atrix said evo and sprint on it you would think the world of it and go into the land of iphony and preach its gospel to the unenlightened
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Preach on brother! Can I get an amen?
- My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.

HondaCop said:
Preach on brother! Can I get an amen?
- My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not with a locked bootloader because all of the good Dev's on here would not be supporting it, so it really wouldn't be worth it. No CM7 Love or probably fresh or anyone else.

The most annoying problems with G3 explained

Firstly, let me apologize for my English and the lack of technical terminology in my vocabulary.
Secondly, a disclaimer: I do not own any Samsung phone. I think that my wife's LG G2 is the greatest phone in the world.
Let's get to the point...
Polish site PCLab has just published a detailed review of G3 (European model) with some astounding tests' results that might shed some light on all disturbing reports about problems with LG's new flagship device. And while Polish journalist praise the phone for its incredible design, great UI, decent camera, they are at the same time very disappointed with some serious software and hardware problems that G3 is suffering from. I have read tons of different reviews, but it's the first one that explains why this phone "lags", overheats etc.
Problem: POOR BENCHMARKS' RESULTS, LAGS
Some reasons:
1. It seems that RAM sticks (is that the correct word?) in G3 are worse in terms of quality than the ones from G2.
2. CPU management is set to deliberately lower clock rate and restrict maximum clock rate to one core only in most of the cases. And when all four cores are in use, CPU management does not allow them to work at maximum rate at all. It has some serious impact on UI operations as well and makes better chpset in G3 perform worse than Snapdragon 800 in G2.
3. The temperature. G3 has some serious problems with heat distribution. When the CPU is working for longer period of time, the clock rate is lowered to 1.5 GHz and (what's worse) GPU clock is being seriously restrained. For example, after several minutes GPU clock rate is slowered by 40% (from, say, 20 fps to 12 fps)! It's the worse throttling among all new flagships.
4. There's no trimming in system's internal memory. That's one of the most important causes of "lags".
5. The new UI has some problems with memory management. Sometimes while using few apps there is only 174 MB of 2 GB of memory avaible! And the only way to free memory is to restart the device.
And yes, this review also confirms problems with oversharpening of the text on G2 dispay. The reviewer says that it's the software issue (or rather: "LG's conscious marketing decision").
You can see all the screenshots from various tests here:
http://pclab.pl/art58419.html
I have no idea if these problems might be fixed with some software updates, but I really do hope so!

I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad not to mention that the kernel is using around 25% of RAM as ZRAM which I believe is standard in 4.4 kernels! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
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OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android fills RAM up as you open apps up and leaves the apps in the RAM so you can multitask. As soon as it needs more RAM for other apps it automatically kills the apps sitting in the RAM. Launchers have a big RAM footprint, you're better using a lightweight launcher such as Nova and using the "aggressive" setting which means it never gets killed and sits in the RAM permanently. If you look at your RAM usage whether you have 2gb or 3gb it will always be mostly full as that's how the kernel us handling its usage, its filling it up for multitasking. The article in the op states that the RAM is always mostly full, yes that's good as that's what its supposed to be doing.
http://m.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Bukary said:
Problem: POOR BENCHMARKS' RESULTS, LAGS
Some reasons:
2. CPU management is set to deliberately lower clock rate and restrict maximum clock rate to one core only in most of the cases. And when all four cores are in use, CPU management does not allow them to work at maximum rate at all. It has some serious impact on UI operations as well and makes better chpset in G3 perform worse than Snapdragon 800 in G2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is because LG is trying to run a QHD display on the Snapdragon 801 chipset. The Snapdragon 805 is required to run a QHD to achieve the same performance level as the Snapdragon 800 running on a 1080p display
You can read about it here - http://www.anandtech.com/show/8035/qualcomm-snapdragon-805-performance-preview/3
Manhattan continues to be a very stressful test but the onscreen results are pretty interesting. Adreno 420 can drive a 2560 x 1440 display at the same frame rate that Adreno 330 could drive a 1080p display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Bukary said:
4. There's no trimming in system's internal memory. That's one of the most important causes of "lags".
(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?

dhkx said:
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Android has that built in now.
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.

Lostatsea23 said:
Yeah. Android has that built in now.
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trim is built in, yeah. The G3 does have issues and the S801is at its limit pushing the QHD display but with ROM and kernel optimization there's still more performance in the phone.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly what the reviewers says: when there was only 174 MB of free RAM the phone started to redraw homescreen and freeze. There was no way to get rid of this. Uninstalling apps and closing them did not help. One could only restart the device. The journalist claims that this software issue can be fixed with an update (if LG decides to release one).
dhkx said:
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the reviewer also says that trimming at fixed moments (or while deleting files) is standard for Android, YET the test revealed that in system's memory of G3 there is no trimming. He is also surprised and says that the quality of this emmory (eMMC) is good, but no trim makes it laggy. (I hope I understood it correctly).
Lostatsea23 said:
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also hope that it will be fixed. But so far there is no serious update. And it's been 5 (6?) weeks since Korean release. And, as far as I know, no other flagship device had such a serious problems. Can you imagine Z2 or S5 perform worse than Z1 or S4? And yet G3 with 801 (in some tests) performs worse than G2 with 800.

Bukary said:
YET the test revealed that in system's memory of G3 there is no trimming. He is also surprised and says that the quality of this emmory (eMMC) is good, but no trim makes it laggy. (I hope I understood it right).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources

Enddo said:
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I linked this review in my first post in this thread.
I am no technical guy, so I can't check if the reviwer is correct, but I tried to translate everything accurately. I want to buy G3, so I am hoping that all these problems can and will be fixed by LG soon.

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Xposed App Settings to set your Launcher as 'Resident'. Got rid of this issue for me.

The CPU almost always staying at 300mhz is the largest issue I have with the phone - its not a huge issue, more of an annoyance. I am guessing its been done to maximise battery life and reduce heat.
I don't think this is due to thermal throttling, but if I am wrong please correct me - has anyone had success with turning the throttling off?

It looks like as an author of this article (I completely did not expect to find this link here ) I need to clarify few things.
Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad not to mention that the kernel is using around 25% of RAM as ZRAM which I believe is standard in 4.4 kernels! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm well aware that "RAM not in use is wasted RAM" and that Android keeps a lot of things in memory to make everything faster, not slower. When my G3 has ~300-400 MB of free memory, everything works fine, but after some time it fills up and there is no room form launcher, more than 1 tab in Chrome and so on. It clearly is some problem with memory management and as an long-time Nexus user I'd rather say it's a bug, not a feature
Enddo said:
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Claim that every smartphone with Android 4.3 or newer allways has TRIM because it is "built-in" is not entirely true. There are different ways of supporting TRIM. Most common one is ext4 filesystem with discard flag active (ext4 without discard does not TRIM automatically), which was used even before ANdroid 4.3. Motorola has F2FS filesystem, which is optimized for NAND storage and has garbage collector allways active. There is also "Nexus way" TRIM with garbage collection demon running in background. In G3 data partition is ext4 without discard flag and in system logs there are no signs of any TRIM commands running in background, so AFAIK there is no TRIM support in G3 at the moment, or I have strange preproduction sample. The best way of checking that would be rooting G3 and running fstrim() manualy, but i can't do that with my review sample.
Enddo said:
This is because LG is trying to run a QHD display on the Snapdragon 801 chipset. The Snapdragon 805 is required to run a QHD to achieve the same performance level as the Snapdragon 800 running on a 1080p display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not the whole storry. Yes, highier ressolution is part of it, but it looks like G3 has very small thermal headroom and during longer heavy GPU load it's clocks get cut by ~40%. (unfortunately i can't paste links in my posts yet). During 30 minutes long GFXBench loop, after ~15 minutes GPU throtling kicks in and this Snapdragon 801 gets much slower, than Snapdragon. Yes, allmost every new smartphone with S800/S801 throttles in such situations, but G3's case is most extreme one I've ever seen.
Lostatsea23 said:
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And selling beta hardware with beta software for full price isn't annoying?
I'll try to figure out with Polish LG representatives if these problems are typical only for this specific sample, or it's something more common. At the moment my opinion is that G3 is very cool phone if your typical usage scenarios do not hit the "heat wall", but if they do this phone gets pretty annoying (backlight dimming, heavy GPU throttling and I've even managed to overheat camera so it stopped recording 4K video after 2 minutes 15 seconds).a
Unfortunately my english is not as good as I'd like it to be, but I hope I explained few things a bit.

bedlamite said:
I hope I explained few things a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, bedlamite!
Could you tell us if any of these issues might be fixed with some software updates?

bedlamite said:
It looks like as an author of this article (I completely did not expect to find this link here ) I need to clarify few things.
I'm well aware that "RAM not in use is wasted RAM" and that Android keeps a lot of things in memory to make everything faster, not slower. When my G3 has ~300-400 MB of free memory, everything works fine, but after some time it fills up and there is no room form launcher, more than 1 tab in Chrome and so on. It clearly is some problem with memory management and as an long-time Nexus user I'd rather say it's a bug, not a feature
Claim that every smartphone with Android 4.3 or newer allways has TRIM because it is "built-in" is not entirely true. There are different ways of supporting TRIM. Most common one is ext4 filesystem with discard flag active (ext4 without discard does not TRIM automatically), which was used even before ANdroid 4.3. Motorola has F2FS filesystem, which is optimized for NAND storage and has garbage collector allways active. There is also "Nexus way" TRIM with garbage collection demon running in background. In G3 data partition is ext4 without discard flag and in system logs there are no signs of any TRIM commands running in background, so AFAIK there is no TRIM support in G3 at the moment, or I have strange preproduction sample. The best way of checking that would be rooting G3 and running fstrim() manualy, but i can't do that with my review sample.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the clarification.
Everytime I open my multitasking I have a look at my RAM bar and its always between 350-400mb so I don't think I have the problem you're having.
I have rooted and FSTRIM runs fine on my G3...
I do agree with you though, there is issues.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Guys, the 801 is more than capable of handling QHD, the problem is heating, when the phone gets hot there's aggressive cpu throttling by LG software. The 805 is more powerful with less heat so that's why it more suitable for QHD devices. Same goes to the screen not so bright too much heat.

*OFFTOPIC*
Guys please put those high-res pictures in spoilers! They are totally overloading this thread.
Spoiler
( /SPOILER]
Thank you.

No TRIMM??
Is this serious?
I've always feared that most manufacturers don't include TRIMM or take it away from their phones because that way the phone slows down and forces the consumers to upgrade to a newer one.

Sensamic said:
No TRIMM??
Is this serious?
I've always feared that most manufacturers don't include TRIMM or take it away from their phones because that way the phone slows down and forces the consumers to upgrade to a newer one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The FSTRIM app works fine, I posted this above?
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Database Users

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