Database Users

[Q] When will we see the full use of the 512mb of ram?

So many froyo roms in development section, but still Vibrant showing 324 (more or less) of ram available? Isn't froyo suppose to fee that part of ram up that is not being used in eclair?

I think some of it is reserved for the GPU
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

There's a thread in the i9000 section about this. The short version is that all that RAM you can't see is reserved for various parts of the device to use. The radio uses some, the camera uses some, the GPU, etc.. It sucks that that memory is reserved even if you aren't using the GPU, for example, but that's how it is. They have a kernel patch over there that attempts to free up some of it by reducing the allocations. It seems to work without causing problems, but time will tell.
So the answer to the question is NEVER. There is 512MB of RAM in the device, but you won't be able to use all 512MB for user progams ever. This is no different than most off the shelf computers, they advertise 4GB of RAM, but the internal graphics takes 512MB, and other devices in the machine often do the same thing. Would it be nice if manufacturers wern't allowed to advertise this way? Maybe. However, Samsung isn't doing anything that isn't "industry standard". IMO they should all be advertising user-available RAM rather than installed RAM, but then people would ***** that the OS takes up some RAM, so you will never make everyone happy.

I would be unhappy if I thought we needed more RAM, but honestly I've never seen my Vibrant even get close to low.

I don't mind the RAM issue as I'm not having issues (yet), what I don't like is the internal storage.
On the Vibrant it's not too bad since we have 16GB, but for something like the G2 where they advertise it as 4GB, but you only have access to ~1.5, that's just not cool!
Eventually there'll probably be some kernel tweaks or something that'll free up some of that internal RAM, but I don't forsee anyone coding for it until they actually need it themselves (nothing speeds up development more than personal interest....why do you think the dev ROMs are so much better than the Samsung ones).

Nexus S 328 MB of RAM? ?

The Nexus S details are a little more enlightening. Keep in mind the original version might have been scrapped, so these leaked specs are subject to change:
ArmV7 CPU Open GL ES Supported
~328 MB Ram
1 GB Internal Memory
800×480 Resolution 4″ Super Amoled (2?)
Screen 720p Video Recording
T-Mobile (at least this one)
Source: androidandme.com
I really do hope these specs are wrong. I was going to buy this phone for sure. I really was. Despite how everyone has been hating it for being by Samsung and being plastic. I was still going to get it. But now? Forget it. I don’t care if it has a dual code processor and great screen. It needs to have 1 GB of RAM or 768 MB at least. This phone may be ugly but it needs to have amazing specs and no GPS problems or any lag problems. Otherwise I will stick with my nexus one.

I will believe it comes with only 328MB RAM when I see it in front of me.
I'd say its a typo.

ksc6000 said:
words...
I don’t care if it has a dual code processor and great screen. It needs to have 1 GB of RAM or 768 MB at least.
...more words...
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dual core ? oh, okay dokay.
see, typos aren't targeting creatures. they can strike anyone, anytime. obviously it was meant to say 328Gb, and 1Tb on the not-here-yet S.
just wait.

The Nexus S probably only showed 328 MB FREE, if I remember correctly the GPU in the Hummingbird dedicates a ton of RAM to itself. This phone definitely needs at least 768 MB leaving 5xx MB free.
If it's 512MB (which it currently looks like), 1GB of ROM and the same Hummingbird, I'll pass. I'll just wait for CM to port 2.3 to the EVO and wait for the HTC dual cores.

id hope it doesn't have 328 mb ram

Just sounds like a Galaxy S then really.

All the people whining about lack of RAM - did you ever bother to check the amount of free RAM at any given time on Nexus One since Froyo?
Well, I guess you didn't, since Nexus doesn't go below 160MB free RAM, and you need to work hard to make it go below 200MB - which is a HUGE waste. You want to waste even more? 1GB of RAM? Really? Did you see applications that can use 1/10 of it?
328MB RAM can't come with the phone, because 99% of the time RAM comes in powers of 2, and very rarely there are 3 banks used, making the last multiplier 3 instead of 2. 328MB doesn't fit anywhere, so it's not a real number.

Jack_R1 said:
All the people whining about lack of RAM - did you ever bother to check the amount of free RAM at any given time on Nexus One since Froyo?
Well, I guess you didn't, since Nexus doesn't go below 160MB free RAM, and you need to work hard to make it go below 200MB - which is a HUGE waste. You want to waste even more? 1GB of RAM? Really? Did you see applications that can use 1/10 of it?
328MB RAM can't come with the phone, because 99% of the time RAM comes in powers of 2, and very rarely there are 3 banks used, making the last multiplier 3 instead of 2. 328MB doesn't fit anywhere, so it's not a real number.
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As I stated earlier, it's probably 512 MB but the GPU in the Hummingbird dedicates a huge chunk of it for itself. The Adreno 200 GPU in the Nexus One still leaves over 500 MB free -- 5xx MB vs 328 MB is a HUGE difference. So that considered, it'd be a huge step down from the Nexus One if it doesn't at least have 768 MB to even things out.

Jack_R1 said:
All the people whining about lack of RAM - did you ever bother to check the amount of free RAM at any given time on Nexus One since Froyo?
Well, I guess you didn't, since Nexus doesn't go below 160MB free RAM, and you need to work hard to make it go below 200MB - which is a HUGE waste. You want to waste even more? 1GB of RAM? Really? Did you see applications that can use 1/10 of it?
328MB RAM can't come with the phone, because 99% of the time RAM comes in powers of 2, and very rarely there are 3 banks used, making the last multiplier 3 instead of 2. 328MB doesn't fit anywhere, so it's not a real number.
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Guess you have never owned a galaxy s either then which lags terribly when it's used pretty much all of its paltry sum of ram?
Trust me if this doesn't at least have double the amount of ram that this article says it has then that is a major mistake imo. Time will tell though.

512MB of RAM should be more than sufficient. Here is a quote from Dianne Hackborn, Android Framework Engineer
The Nexus One has 512MB of RAM and honestly that is really more than we know what to do with. It is great. I ended up putting some code into the
activity manager to put a hard limit on the number of processes we would
keep around, because there was so much memory we had often could keep way
more processes than was useful. That was never an issue on Droid.
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From http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting/msg/d4f60db2793f23d2

bgoldie said:
512MB of RAM should be more than sufficient. Here is a quote from Dianne Hackborn, Android Framework Engineer
From http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting/msg/d4f60db2793f23d2
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The Nexus != SGS/Nexus S
Again, you're forgetting about the available RAM. I just checked my EVO (very similar CPU/GPU) running CM6.1 and I was wrong about the 5xx figure, it actually has 424 MB to use. That's almost a 100 MB difference. And what if apps get more complex/heavy? Dual cores are around the corner so why not?

It sounds like a great phone but no better than my vibrant. Its the new generation of android so I would expect new gen hardware like high Res screen, 1080p and all those other great things. The vibrant has amazing hardware so the next generation will be mind blowing, to me anyway. I see no reason to move to the nexus s. I have a nexus one so ill get gingerbread and the S is not better enough to upgrade from a nexus one or vibrant. I understand that they just want a phone on which to release gingerbread but it seems a bit thrown together last minute, not a lot of effort, which is fine but I don't want to have to hear stupid things about Google phones not selling well, as if that's some sort of negative for android generally. I would expect that by now people that want a nexus one or vibrant type hardware already have it so this phone may not sell well. Plus people that know anything are going to be waiting to hear about the next stage of hardware. Definitely not worth jumping on unless you are coming from a lesser phone than the nexus or galaxy s, hardware-wise. On second thought if the GPS works like it does on the nexus one I'd seriously consider selling my vibrant for it. I'm appauled that the vibrants GPS still doesn't work, the most frustration I've experienced with android since its 2008 release is when in the middle of a navigation the screen starts spinning and doesn't regain its composure, happens literally every time. Hell now I think I'm pumped about this phone, I can stop carrying my damn nexus just for the GPS. Its no way to live.

Jack_R1 said:
328MB RAM can't come with the phone, because 99% of the time RAM comes in powers of 2, and very rarely there are 3 banks used, making the last multiplier 3 instead of 2. 328MB doesn't fit anywhere, so it's not a real number.
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It could be a typo. 328 doesnt fit but 320 does. I think its going to be 512 minimum personally.

why does the vibrant not recognize all the ram even on 2.2

Guys, how can I get my samsung vibrant to recognize all the 512mb of ram. I thought froyo has all the software and kernels and stuff to recognize the full 512mb of my phone not just 308mb. Do I need to flash a new kernel or something. I have the nero v3 rom on my phone, with voodoo enabled. So how do we fix this?

308 MB you phone is showing you is the correct amount, your phone does have 512 MB of RAM total. However, part of that is used by the phone and android system to supply your phone's graphics card and other functions such as a RAM disk if I remembered correctly. In addition, You don't want your phone to run out of memory because you are running a game and missed that all important call right? well part of the RAM is reserved to keep the "phone" portion of the Android working.
It is a common misconception that Froyo will "unlock" this hidden RAM, but in reality we are already using all the RAM that came with the phone. The reason some HTC phone shows 512 MB of RAM is either because the phone is reading the "TotaL" amount of RAM or in the case of G2 the phone actually came with more than 512 MB of ram but advertised as 512 MB (the extra RAM is used in the same way as the Vibrant, GPU/Ram disk/Android, etc).

What about the iphone, my cousin always gets 300t mb of free memory on his iphone 4. Android can't be that much of a ram hog. By the way doesn't the power vr gpu have dedicated ram for it self, I man come on, its a high end phone. Samsung is really messing up on there phones.

My question is *why* do you need more free RAM? Are you really running out, ever? Don't think of it like a PC where you need free RAM as overhead when apps start utilizing more and more. Android will free up more RAM as necessary by killing apps that are preloaded in the background. I've never run into a situation where I've run out of memory, couldn't even tell you what happens when you do. I don't use task-killers, run a ton of widgets, and I've never seen it dip below 60-70mb free.

Kubernetes said:
My question is *why* do you need more free RAM? Are you really running out, ever? Don't think of it like a PC where you need free RAM as overhead when apps start utilizing more and more. Android will free up more RAM as necessary by killing apps that are preloaded in the background. I've never run into a situation where I've run out of memory, couldn't even tell you what happens when you do. I don't use task-killers, run a ton of widgets, and I've never seen it dip below 60-70mb free.[/QUOTE
Yes I do run out of ram. Every time I watch a flash video and while leaving no heavy ram using apps to be multitasked, after I finish my vigo and go back to my other apps I finder them killed. It gets on my nerves. I expected more out of 512mb. I also spent too much money for my phone for it to perform under shar what it's specified.
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I run autokiller and always have 150ish.free. even if I didn't run it I would never run out id ram even when I had my g1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 app accessible ram. Typically runs with ~100ish free after a fresh boot with a stock ROM. The browser can take ~30mb, so that doesn't leave much to multitasking with. When ur phone starts auto killing performance decreases. They should have h put the aeverised ram in the phone, instead of playing the semantics game. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that to 384.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 apparently accessible ram. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that.
Galaxy tab uses the same social and its alwaysvshowing 400+ MB ram on everyone I checked.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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This means that this is a software issue, not hardware because the tab has the same processor found in the vibrant. 400t is allot better than just 300, not only but the tab also requires more resources with it's 720p screen.

helikido said:
This means that this is a software issue, not hardware because the tab has the same processor found in the vibrant. 400t is allot better than just 300, not only but the tab also requires more resources with it's 720p screen.
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It's not a software issue.
And yes, 100MB RAM in a smartphone is a lot.
It's like getting a computer with 4GB RAM and ripping a 2GB RAM stick out out of it.
There's 128 MB RAM that isn't accessible to the system The OS itself probably uses abut 100+ MB RAM, and once you start installing applications/services that start eating up resources.
Some say the 128 is dedicated graphics ram (fast graphics RAM to allow the Hummingbird to achieve it's faster GPU performance). What a waste. I'll make sure my next phone isn't built like a game console.
They should have at least added another 64MB RAM the way HTC did in the HD2/HD7.
The phone has as much App RAM as a mid-range Android device (think HTC Aria). It's factorable, especially if you want to multitask. Running multiple applications on this phone, I basically have to manage my apps they way I did on Windows Mobile (i.e. open task manager to FC the browser, etc.) because you don't want to be playing a game or doing anything somewhat important when the phone starts trying to auto-close background tasks to recover RAM (and some services will simply restart themselves immediately).
Good phone, bad execution in the software, and they should not have advertised it as having 512 RAM, because to anyone that isn't an idiot Graphics RAM is not synonymous with Application RAM, and 128 less RAM is quite a big chunk to be missing.

...Graphics RAM is not synonymous with Application RAM, and 128 less RAM is quite a big chunk to be missing.
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Virtually every computer on the shelf at Wally-World and Best Buy do exactly this - the motherboard graphics chip uses system RAM to operate. Admittedly does not directly correlate to a phone, and they should make a disclosure, but there is ample precedent in the general marketplace.

I don't understand why some of you attribute a free RAM amount (or lack thereof) as a memory hog?
If RAM is used instead of slower disk I/O it translates to a better user experience, the OS is good on keeping the taps on the memory and clean the thrash by itself, but nothing can prevent poor coding and a single rouge app can become the memory hog independent of how much RAM your system has, it might eat all of it.

The real problem is that the phone has only about 150mb of free ram and that'd on boot up. If the phone does have some ram dedicated to the gpu from the system ram (known as shared ram) then why
Don't other android devices do that too, and the iphone has more free ram on boot up then what is user acsesable to me. I thought the gloriose sgx540 had it's own high end dedicated ram for graphics?

N8ter said:
So much for multitasking, right?
Phone has 384 app accessible ram. Typically runs with ~100ish free after a fresh boot with a stock ROM. The browser can take ~30mb, so that doesn't leave much to multitasking with. When ur phone starts auto killing performance decreases. They should have h put the aeverised ram in the phone, instead of playing the semantics game. Even Verizon updated their fascinate specs to change that to 384.
I'll make sure to check this before I buy my next phone in a couple weeks tho (soooo excited!!!).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.

ionic7 said:
If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.
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There is an ignore list feature on these forums

helikido said:
The real problem is that the phone has only about 150mb of free ram and that'd on boot up. If the phone does have some ram dedicated to the gpu from the system ram (known as shared ram) then why
Don't other android devices do that too, and the iphone has more free ram on boot up then what is user acsesable to me. I thought the gloriose sgx540 had it's own high end dedicated ram for graphics?
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And how is that a problem?
Do you have an immediate need for something that requires 150+ MB after the boot?
Here's an absolutely healthy linux system with 2GB of RAM:
Code:
free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 2049868 1982076 67792 0 146988 840748
-/+ buffers/cache: 994340 1055528
Swap: 6008824 820 6008004
I will be worried if my swap is being used a lot, but using my memory on the system is good.

I agree with this. 512 advertised, 308 seen, 150 Available after a boot....my phone keeps running out of memory so often its sad. It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time. When I switch between the 2 apps, it closes the other one and its really really sad to see. ****ty job samsung, ****ty job. I hope the galaxy s mod gets ported for the ram which opens 338mb. At least its something.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

}{Alienz}{ said:
It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time.
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I just went on a 700+ mile car trip with the music player and gps navigation software running the entire time. No problem. Was even able to simultaneously play games while my wife was driving.

}{Alienz}{ said:
I agree with this. 512 advertised, 308 seen, 150 Available after a boot....my phone keeps running out of memory so often its sad. It can never run my music player and my gps software at the same time. When I switch between the 2 apps, it closes the other one and its really really sad to see. ****ty job samsung, ****ty job. I hope the galaxy s mod gets ported for the ram which opens 338mb. At least its something.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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you have a rouge app/apps running that memory hog your phone, getting 30MB of more available RAM will not save it. You need to find what is hogging your phone, I am yet to see a message that my phone is low on memory, sometimes I do a lot of browsing, txt, mytracks and playing music with Pandora or stock player at the same time and it never complained that it was low on memory to run these.

ionic7 said:
If you hate your vibrant so much why do you spend so much time on the forums? Dont seem to contribute much so just go get a new phone and leave us alone.
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Who said that I hate my phone.I'm only truong to find out shar mashes it not recognize all it's ram. In this era, ram is a huge factor to run apps and most importantly newer os updates like ginger bread and honey comb. Don't wanna run out of ram right when you boot up your phone don't you? And if the tab can recognize more ram than this then this means it does gave something to do with software. I guess we have to wait for samsung to release froyo, because im sure that they will gave all threw tweaks that will boost this phone very high, bedside from shar I've noticed, all the,roms out thete dont really boost this phone allot. How do I know,i gave nero v3 and that only boosted me to 1137 on quadrant from 2.1 and with voodo enabled I get 1500 max on quadrant. Oclf the same thing too. so all I'm saying is that it's definitely a software issue. Pretty sure android does not hog 400mbt. And no sgx has its own ram for sure.

I still don't get how you're running out of RAM. Right now I've got Winamp streaming through BT and have started streaming a Flash video. Also running are XDA and Maps. No hiccups.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

2GB of RAM unnecessary?! LOL

This is the 4th time I've opened my task manager today and realized I was using over a gig. It easy to use over a gig when its there
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app

a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:

Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.

dardani89 said:
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
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Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.

stuff said:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
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This. Everything switches back instantly!!
One of the most frustrating parts of the HTC OneX for me was when i was reading a long page of comments on sites like the verge or typing up a forum post. If i left the browser to reply to a text or facebook notification, and then returned to the browser it would always reload a page, and at the top.
Even the (heavy) Sense 4 launcher would have to load up every now and then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747

Voltage Spike said:
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
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i wasn't making fun of android, i was making fun of touchwiz. too much bloat.

If the RAM will mean Nova Launcher wont reload itself as much as it currently does on my Incredible, then that's reason enough for me.

Having had the 1X for a month the 2 gb ram was one of the reasons I switched.

The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium

jamesnmandy said:
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
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This ^^^
Truth
XDA Mobile

By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.

shook187 said:
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
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they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think

jamesnmandy said:
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
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This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time

tylerdurdin said:
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.

jamesnmandy said:
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time

tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it

jamesnmandy said:
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the way you think
Sent from........Somewhere In Time

tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.

nativestranger said:
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to blame both device and OS....I am running ICS on my GS2 and have not even seen the slightest difference.....although my battery is just slightly worse.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time

nativestranger said:
For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must be running some early leeks cause some of my phones like the GS2 and the evo 3d are running ICS flawlessly.

Very low available free RAM on GN 3 ... something to worry ?

Hello there.
As someone coming from a very laggy-slow-multitasker Galaxy S3, I am really looking forward to the possibilities the 3Gb of RAM of the GN III can bring to me in my every day lfe.
I mean, I would love being able to switch to multiple apps fastly without having to reload them each time because the system had to kill them due to low memory (nice work, OOM ^^).
And this upgraded multi-windows feature with mutliple apps instances is really looking awesome.
So, here's the thing.
According to that thread on GN II average available free ram : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1923380 people can enjoy up to 800-1Gb of free RAM which is great but at that time I could not and would not afford to purchase this device, the SGS III being quite new.
And as of today, I read a thread confirming the Samsung Exynos 5420 in the SM-N900 version.
But what almost killed me, so to speak, is the available free RAM on this screenshot (see attachment) : 14% out of 2700Mb, which is less than 400Mb. THE HELL ?? What am I supposed to do whith that few ...?
So what do you guys think ?

Free RAM is a waste ram, enough said. Only my note 2, the free ram stays at 200mb free on average, never ever faced any lag.

sohebq said:
Free RAM is a waste ram, enough said. Only my note 2, the free ram stays at 200mb free on average, never ever faced any lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I should have expected, I'm being answered with the "free RAM waste" speech.
Let me tell you that this is completely true. BUT the problem here is the free RAM you have at YOUR disposal on boot.
How much will Samsung leave you to play with ?
If the system and the home launcher utilize all the memory so that you have only 400Mb left (as in this screenshot) what can you do with that less ??????
I get about 250Mb left on boot with my SGS III and it is NOT ENOUGH to do some multitasking.
So I will not leave free RAM, I will use it to my heart's content to do MULTI-TASKING with the apps I want to USE and switch between AT WILL without having to RELAUNCHING them. That's all
Therefore if I have only 400Mb left, then this device won't satisfy me. I'll be better on a Nexus 4 I saw with CM and over 1.30Gb free RAM to play with ! ^^

THis 400mb ram left is not on boot man, it could be after several apps opened so when you open a new app, the task manager adjust itself by clearing old apps from memory to find space for new.

Mackovich said:
So what do you guys think ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my N2 which I've never had a multitasking issue with. In fact, the number of apps it can keep alive in the background has always impressed me.
With 116 installed apps and dozens of Samsung's apps doing whatever it is they do I have 200MB of "free" RAM.
When I kill all active processes I have 850MB free.
Mali in the N2 reserves 250MB of RAM for itself. Adreno 320 reserves 500MB of RAM for itself in devices using it. Adreno 330 in the N3 will reserve at least that much, maybe more. I'm guessing that between Adreno's needs and the RAM some of their new apps (two concurrent instances of the same app, enhanced multitasking, updated S Note with Action Memo) need Samsung wisely included 3GB of RAM on the N3 to prevent the very scenario you're afraid of.
You do realize that open apps are counted in the "used RAM" the picture you posted shows? So that device that was being tested could have had a dozen apps open in the background for all we know. And a dozen apps open with free RAM still available would be good, not bad as you're indicating.
P.S. - The part you're missing about the "free RAM" speech is that the idea of having free RAM is kind of stupid. If an app can perform better with more RAM and the OS sees RAM available it'll allocate additional RAM to that app. If more apps join the party the first apps RAM will be reduced to provide a proportionate amount of RAM to other apps running. In other words there's absolutely no reason to have free RAM on an Android device; at least when apps are running.

Actually it's well explained that why we should not worry about ram anymore. good read.
http://www.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care

sohebq said:
THis 400mb ram left is not on boot man, it could be after several apps opened so when you open a new app, the task manager adjust itself by clearing old apps from memory to find space for new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough.
If this device was running many apps in background while performing this CPU-Z scan (on the screenshot), then, I would not be worried at all. So I really hope that was the case.
What matters the most to me, is how much ram is allocated to the user, so that when I install my apps I can launch them and switch between them to my leisure without having to relaunch them.
Therefore I do expect to see very low available RAM, but only because of my doing : launching many apps, the apps I use every day. That's my all point.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's my N2 which I've never had a multitasking issue with. In fact, the number of apps it can keep alive in the background has always impressed me.
With 116 installed apps and dozens of Samsung's apps doing whatever it is they do I have 200MB of "free" RAM.
When I kill all active processes I have 850MB free.
Mali in the N2 reserves 250MB of RAM for itself. Adreno 320 reserves 500MB of RAM for itself in devices using it. Adreno 330 in the N3 will reserve at least that much, maybe more. I'm guessing that between Adreno's needs and the RAM some of their new apps (two concurrent instances of the same app, enhanced multitasking, updated S Note with Action Memo) need Samsung wisely included 3GB of RAM on the N3 to prevent the very scenario you're afraid of.
You do realize that open apps are counted in the "used RAM" the picture you posted shows? So that device that was being tested could have had a dozen apps open in the background for all we know. And a dozen apps open with free RAM still available would be good, not bad as you're indicating.
P.S. - The part you're missing about the "free RAM" speech is that the idea of having free RAM is kind of stupid. If an app can perform better with more RAM and the OS sees RAM available it'll allocate additional RAM to that app. If more apps join the party the first apps RAM will be reduced to provide a proportionate amount of RAM to other apps running. In other words there's absolutely no reason to have free RAM on an Android device; at least when apps are running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting. Now I know where the GPU takes the RAM it needs.
And the part where an app is being less allocated in RAM is strange. I never really saw an app releasing RAM without being killed.
But anyway, with my current 1Gb SGS III, I cannot to do a lot of multitasking and I would really love to have at least 1-to 1.5Gb of free RAM on my GN III that I recently pre-ordered.

Mackovich said:
But anyway, with my current 1Gb SGS III, I cannot to do a lot of multitasking and I would really love to have at least 1-to 1.5Gb of free RAM on my GN III that I recently pre-ordered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1GB on the Exynos SGS3 was probably too little. As Samsung adds sensors and features that are persistent they reserve RAM for themselves and don't release it when other apps need it. So with Mali taking up 250MB the Exynos SGS3 had 750MB of RAM that was usable not counting what Samsung's apps permanently reserved for themselves. The S4 SGS3 had 2GB of RAM because Adreno used more RAM than Mali. It ended up performing better at multitasking because there was only 130MB of that extra RAM dedicated to Adreno so there was lots more available for apps. HTC used 1MB of RAM in the S4 based One XL and it was a multitasking disaster because Adreno ate up 330MB of it and Sense itself is no featherweight.

Free RAM in GN3 via @NZtechfreak
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Adreno GPU taking about 600MB of RAM!

BarryH_GEG said:
1GB on the Exynos SGS3 was probably too little. As Samsung adds sensors and features that are persistent they reserve RAM for themselves and don't release it when other apps need it. So with Mali taking up 250MB the Exynos SGS3 had 750MB of RAM that was usable not counting what Samsung's apps permanently reserved for themselves. The S4 SGS3 had 2GB of RAM because Adreno used more RAM than Mali. It ended up performing better at multitasking because there was only 130MB of that extra RAM dedicated to Adreno so there was lots more available for apps. HTC used 1MB of RAM in the S4 based One XL and it was a multitasking disaster because Adreno ate up 330MB of it and Sense itself is no featherweight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very detailed and interesting! I had no knowledge of this while looking for ways to enhance my SGS III multitasking experience. Now everything seems much clearer. Thanks!
CLARiiON said:
Free RAM in GN3 via @NZtechfreak
Adreno GPU taking about 600MB of RAM!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ! Finally some good news! Is this free RAM upon boot and/or when clearing memory?
If so, then it would be expected that there won't be close to 2Gb of free RAM, since I expect that TW home launcher will use a lot of RAM with all new features such as AirCommand. Don't you think?
Anyway thanks for that screenshot!

If you're really insistent on having 'free' memory, you can change it with a tool like this, needs root
if however, you read (and understood) the article posted above by rl421403(good read, thanks for the link) you will realise that the Engineers who designed the system do actually know what they are doing.

Mackovich said:
Ah ! Finally some good news! Is this free RAM upon boot and/or when clearing memory?
If so, then it would be expected that there won't be close to 2Gb of free RAM, since I expect that TW home launcher will use a lot of RAM with all new features such as AirCommand. Don't you think?
Anyway thanks for that screenshot!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After cleaning RAM.
https://twitter.com/NZtechfreak/status/378461088678825984/
Well, no point having 3GB RAM if we are not going to use it..
However I think we have more than enough RAM to work with. 'Free' memory is more than GN2 if you check.

Here's another good article from Dianne Hackborn, a s/w engineer at Google that explains multitasking in detail. A lot of issues people have with certain apps when it comes to multitasking aren't due to Android or RAM but the way the apps themselves have been written (EG: sloppy).
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html

There is plenty of ram on the s3... lol these ain't windows phones
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

skally said:
If you're really insistent on having 'free' memory, you can change it with a tool like this, needs root
if however, you read (and understood) the article posted above by rl421403(good read, thanks for the link) you will realise that the Engineers who designed the system do actually know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I tried something similar that used the MinFree values : zepplerinox supercharger script and eventually it was more than hassle though I had more multi-tasking capabilities.
But on many occasion my device froze because there was no memory left so I abandonned until I would find a better device.
CLARiiON said:
After cleaning RAM.
https://twitter.com/NZtechfreak/status/378461088678825984/
Well, no point having 3GB RAM if we are not going to use it..
However I think we have more than enough RAM to work with. 'Free' memory is more than GN2 if you check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was worry sick about the 3Gb RAM, because a last minute serious rumour (few days before the IFA) stated RAM would be 2.5Gb and not 3Gb with a Antutu benchmark as a proof.
Then we learnt the real truth.
Anyway, it would definitely seem to be more free RAM than on the GN2, much not as much as one would expect when packing an extra 1Gb RAM, meaning Adreno 330 uses much more as long as TW home launcher.
By the way, is it me or your Twitter link does not work ?
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's another good article from Dianne Hackborn, a s/w engineer at Google that explains multitasking in detail. A lot of issues people have with certain apps when it comes to multitasking aren't due to Android or RAM but the way the apps themselves have been written (EG: sloppy).
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll read it
Now that I think about, when you said the GPU uses the system memory, does it use it on the go or does it have it's dedicated allocation no matter what ?
Because if I am correct, on the previous page, the screenshot shows 2.75 of available memory out of 3Gb. I gather the 250Mb is dedicated to the ROM, right ? So what about the GPU ?
chjema said:
There is plenty of ram on the s3... lol these ain't windows phones
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for me. Even though I flash CM on it. A few services (twitter, music etc...), a few widget and you're fu**ed...
Meaning, upon boot, I have 200-300Mb of free RAM.

CLARiiON said:
Free RAM in GN3 via @NZtechfreak
Adreno GPU taking about 600MB of RAM!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2,38Gb?
Where are the 3Gb?
One screen shows 2,7Gb. That's ok. I suppose that rest of ram is for graphical purpose.
But in this screen I only see 2,38Gb? Where are the other 620 Mb? How much memory is graphical dedicated? 300mb or 600mb?

You can consider the new Adreno 330 from Qualcomm to use at least the same amount than it's previous version - Adreno 320- which is 550Mb as explained in page 1

sorry offtopic... but I heard that samsung will offer minimum 32 gb storage on galaxy note3 but according to op screenshot this is a 16gb N9000... so are they still offering 16gb versions for note3?

The amount of RAM in use at boot doesn't surprise me at all. Where do you think all those nifty new resource intensive features live? Even with that and Adreno's piggish appetite the N3 still has more free RAM when cleared than the N2 does. My N2 with memory cleared in on the left. @NZtechfreak said his N3 had no material apps on it and mine’s loaded so that may make a difference. Regardless, I don’t see RAM being an issue based on what’s been posted so far.

BarryH_GEG said:
Here's another good article from Dianne Hackborn, a s/w engineer at Google that explains multitasking in detail. A lot of issues people have with certain apps when it comes to multitasking aren't due to Android or RAM but the way the apps themselves have been written (EG: sloppy).
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. And you can't expect there not to be errors with so many variants of screen sizes and OS updates.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium