Database Users

[Q] Question

I've been installing Froyo Roms coutesy of FusionRom and Froydvillain makers for a while now on my Hero. It's now time for an upgrade...
I know that Android 3.0 is coming "soon" and will supposedly be released this year - maybe with next couple of months but info is very thin on the ground.
Wondering if anyone knows if Android 3.0 devices will be released this year or is it just the Software that will be released and announced?
I'm holding out upgrading my phone and waiting for Android 3.0 but the most compelling option out at the moment is the Samsung Galaxy S. Anyone think Android 3.0 will be available on the Galaxy S or is it worth waiting until later this year to see what new hotness gets released?
I know there's not much info out there about Android 3.0 but I'm essentially asking if it's worth waiting or not?

Could be waiting for 4 months or more, can you handle that? Having said that Google are well known for just up and releasing stuff without much build up so it could be sooner than expected... personally I don't think it will be til early 2011 for 3.0 phones to be released.

btdag said:
Could be waiting for 4 months or more, can you handle that? Having said that Google are well known for just up and releasing stuff without much build up so it could be sooner than expected... personally I don't think it will be til early 2011 for 3.0 phones to be released.
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Really? Early 2011? Damn.... I was convinced that 3.0 would be out *with* phones by the end of this year?! I can't really handle 4 months or more because my Hero is so damn slow and unstable. I love and appreciate the custom ROMs for it from the good folks at XDA but I need mo speed!
Thanks for the reply.... Only question now is finding out if the Galaxy S will get the custom ROM love that my Hero got or if I should wait for a HTC of similar (or better) spec.... I think I'm going to go for the Galaxy S because I could be waiting forever otherwise and my phone is basically a pain in the ass. I'll have a look at what's going on in the Galaxy S dev forum....

Bear in mind anything on this subject is speculation. I don't have any insider knowledge, its just my guesstimate.

btdag said:
Bear in mind anything on this subject is speculation. I don't have any insider knowledge, its just my guesstimate.
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I appreciate that. Thing is.... What happens with Android releases usually? What's the pattern? Did 2.0 come out as software after an announcement and then a good while later the phones trickeld out? How long between the announcement and the release of SDK/dev tools etc and the the actual availablitlity of phones? I know very little is know about 3.0 - but does anyone know if it's confirmed that the *software* will be revealed/released by the end of this year or something else?
Is there a better place to ask this?
Cheers

I have heard speculation Android 3 will be for the tablets.
So if you want it, hold off on buying anything. Remember, dont buy because of what they promise. HTC promised 2.0 and 2.1 for AGES before releasing it. Custom ROMs were possible as there were leaks, but without leaks, you're essentially stuffed.

pulser_g2 said:
I have heard speculation Android 3 will be for the tablets.
So if you want it, hold off on buying anything. Remember, dont buy because of what they promise. HTC promised 2.0 and 2.1 for AGES before releasing it. Custom ROMs were possible as there were leaks, but without leaks, you're essentially stuffed.
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I never knew that leaks make custom Roms possible...There are already custom Roms on XDA for the Galaxy S as far as I can tell. Forgive my ignorance but is it the case that Custom ROMs can only be developed from leaked official ROMs (for drivers etc)? Or can custom ROMs be developed simply from android sources? i.e. Because the Galaxy S is one of only a few android handsets from Samsung am I right in thinking that it's therefore much more difficult to, say, port Froyo to the Samsung Galaxy S unless there is an official version out there somewhere from Samgung themselves?
I LOVED messing about with new ROMs on my Hero and am currently rocking ForydVillain which is great - but the cracks in the Hero are starting to show - it's slow. In terms of ROM development - are HTC devices much more likely to get custom ROMs than Samsung phones? I don't know of any upcoming HTC handsets that rival the Samsung Galaxy S......yet!
It's such a pain because there are so many variables with Android, Handsets etc.... :-s

alsheron said:
I never knew that leaks make custom Roms possible...There are already custom Roms on XDA for the Galaxy S as far as I can tell. Forgive my ignorance but is it the case that Custom ROMs can only be developed from leaked official ROMs (for drivers etc)? Or can custom ROMs be developed simply from android sources? i.e. Because the Galaxy S is one of only a few android handsets from Samsung am I right in thinking that it's therefore much more difficult to, say, port Froyo to the Samsung Galaxy S unless there is an official version out there somewhere from Samgung themselves?
I LOVED messing about with new ROMs on my Hero and am currently rocking ForydVillain which is great - but the cracks in the Hero are starting to show - it's slow. In terms of ROM development - are HTC devices much more likely to get custom ROMs than Samsung phones? I don't know of any upcoming HTC handsets that rival the Samsung Galaxy S......yet!
It's such a pain because there are so many variables with Android, Handsets etc.... :-s
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Hold on, you've got confused here, as I wasn't pretty clear about what I was saying. You don't need a leak to make a ROM, but a leak lets you do it before official release. What I'm saying is that there's no guarantee that HTC or samsung or motorola or whoever will release Android 3 in any expedient time. HTC took forever to bring us 2.1, and the only way we managed to get it running BEFORE official release (which was June), was to use custom ROMs based on a leak.
Without that leak, we would likely have been much further back in making ROMs, and might not have managed till the release.
You can dev from a final release just fine, but leaks are needed to do so before the ROM release.
As for building from sources, you can do so, if there's a vendor overlay available. This is how FroydVillain is built.
XDA specialised in HTC devices since 2002/2003, but is now introducing stuff like Samsung devices. I don't know how many "real" devs are on the Samsung, but I think you'll have less custom ROMs, at least initially, until a development community builds up.

pulser_g2 said:
Hold on, you've got confused here, as I wasn't pretty clear about what I was saying. You don't need a leak to make a ROM, but a leak lets you do it before official release. What I'm saying is that there's no guarantee that HTC or samsung or motorola or whoever will release Android 3 in any expedient time. HTC took forever to bring us 2.1, and the only way we managed to get it running BEFORE official release (which was June), was to use custom ROMs based on a leak.
Without that leak, we would likely have been much further back in making ROMs, and might not have managed till the release.
You can dev from a final release just fine, but leaks are needed to do so before the ROM release.
As for building from sources, you can do so, if there's a vendor overlay available. This is how FroydVillain is built.
XDA specialised in HTC devices since 2002/2003, but is now introducing stuff like Samsung devices. I don't know how many "real" devs are on the Samsung, but I think you'll have less custom ROMs, at least initially, until a development community builds up.
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Thanks for all the info - appreciate the detail and effort and maybe I need to get out more but I find it all fascinating
By the way - Somehow I've been thinking all day - utterly convinced - that 2011 is a whole year (12 months) from now instead of just a few months from now. I even called Orange to find out when I could cancel my contract. These years are flying by.... Maybe I'm getting old... Consequently - maybe I'll hold out a few more months for 3.0...
FroydVillain is as good as it gets on the Hero at the mo and it can only get better(!)

Cyanogenmod?

Any word on when cyanogenmod is coming to the fascinate?
Sent from my overclocked undervolted 1.2Ghz SCH-I500 using XDA App

I believe we need to wait until froyo then it should be shortly after that...but i could be wrong...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Nope. It will be here when there is a big ass thread title at the top of these forums saying CYANOGENMOD FOR FASCINATE ZOMGOMGOMG!!!
Don't ask for ETA's

The biggest problem is the different versions of the Galaxy S. The most likely solution is if a few developers would commit to porting it for the Fascinate.
The biggest problem that we currently have (correct me if I'm wrong) is the developers that are committed to bringing Cyanogen to the phone combined with the fact that we have a jacked up source code.
This is all speculation so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

@cyanogrn has also said that they dont have a test fascinate. If they had a donated phone or if there were some way to designate a donation for that particular phone, i would contribute. They dont seem real focused on it at the moment.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

would be nice but i aint dieing to have it.

RacerXFD said:
The biggest problem that we currently have (correct me if I'm wrong) is the developers that are committed to bringing Cyanogen to the phone combined with the fact that we have a jacked up source code.
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No, the biggest problem we have is that it's based on Froyo and we don't have Froyo source or even a leaked update.

s44 said:
No, the biggest problem we have is that it's based on Froyo and we don't have Froyo source or even a leaked update.
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That is not the biggest problem, as there are versions of CM that are based on android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2
The biggest problem right now is that Samsung hired some really smart programmers that make really stupid decisions, like using a RIL from android 1.5 and hacking it together to work on 2.1

fallingup said:
That is not the biggest problem, as there are versions of CM that are based on android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2
The biggest problem right now is that Samsung hired some really smart programmers that make really stupid decisions, like using a RIL from android 1.5 and hacking it together to work on 2.1
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There wouldn't be much use in using Cyanogenmod 5x. Froyo, at least, is what we need to look toward the future.
I am DYING for Cyanogenmod, for a few simple reasons, including BASIC google functionality that was not built into this phone.
The most annoying right now is the lack of multiple Google calendars not even showing up in Samsung's handicapped Calendar app.
My HTC Eris has a 2.6.29 kernel. This phone is a year newer. The playing field should be different.

Dead?

Can't help but feel as if the samsung fascinate dev scene is dead until the release of froyo. Especially since all the core work is already completed with compiled kernels, recovery, base roms and voodoo. The only thing worth changing anymore are themes and I haven't even been doing that. Correct me if im wrong but I came from a droid 1 and even at 2.1 the dev scene was way bigger.
Sent from my better built sammy iphone knockoff

What exactly are you looking for? You can rearrange roms only so many times... I switched roms (d1) quite a fews times and realized there were never any significant improvements...
What this dev community has given us is decent (well maybe some more themes lol) until froyo comes about..
It would be nice to have more roms and such but you get what you get.

I noticed that too. When I had my D1, there were ROMS out the ass! Then I switched to this and have been very let down. If you want a boring theme, you're in luck! Otherwise, not so much.

I think part of the reason more people didn't jump on roms was because Samsung announced it would deliver FroYo within a month after release so creating huge numbers of 2.1 roms wasn't worthwhile at the time.
It's more or less a waiting game for 2.2 now. I think the devs are just waiting for it to drop before doing more serious work on the roms (at least a couple of people I know are).
I imagine it won't be too much farther out, within a month or so...
We saw the international version get froyo, and the Epic got theirs over the weekend, Vibrant was expected on Dec 1 but due to some circumstances it got pushed back a week or so by T-Mobile.

Stop complaining, devs are always busy and frankly do everything for us for free, these things take alot of time and effort. Frankly I'm amazed we have so much, the fascinate isn't the flagship that the D1 was for verizon despite how sexy its hardware is. And to be honest its hard, to imagine my phone getting much better than it is now with dj05 the latest voodoo 5 build and some awesome themer goodness.
/rant

Accused187 said:
I think part of the reason more people didn't jump on roms was because Samsung announced it would deliver FroYo within a month after release so creating huge numbers of 2.1 roms wasn't worthwhile at the time.
It's more or less a waiting game for 2.2 now. I think the devs are just waiting for it to drop before doing more serious work on the roms (at least a couple of people I know are).
I imagine it won't be too much farther out, within a month or so...
We saw the international version get froyo, and the Epic got theirs over the weekend, Vibrant was expected on Dec 1 but due to some circumstances it got pushed back a week or so by T-Mobile.
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Sounds about right our device came out last to, I'm going samsung gives us an early christmas present, come here car dock audio out =D

what exactly is it you guys are looking for?
there are new kernels every day and the roms that are out are fine...theres really only so many ways you can reconfigure a touchwiz based rom anyway until there is an aosp breakthrough

I'm just happy to have what we currently have now.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, with Voodoo5

If Samsung released decent source code, there may be more ROMs than what is available now, but they didn't so everything had to be just stripped down versions of what shipped with the phone. The devs have been trying to get an AOSP rom going, but I don't know the status of that.

I think there would be some AOSP roms out there. Feels like all the roms out there are based of JTs and the others are just themed. Love the kernal development from everyone. I'm actually rocking a stock rom with StupidFast because I prefer the stock feel. I wouldn't mind a nice stock rom with the some memory management improvements, removed bloat and bing removed.

nitsuj17 said:
what exactly is it you guys are looking for?
there are new kernels every day and the roms that are out are fine...theres really only so many ways you can reconfigure a touchwiz based rom anyway until there is an aosp breakthrough
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I've been wondering for a while, what would it mean to have an aosp breakthrough? That is, what is holding things up, and once this is resolved will future versions of aosp be easier to build? Feel free to be very technical and precise if that's what it takes to explain, and thanks! I love your theme.

Might this help Development? Telus Source released.

http://androidspin.com/2011/01/14/froyo-source-code-released-for-samsung-fascinate-3g-on-telus/

I have already downloaded it and will be investigating the possibility of using it soon. Be warned the radios are different. There maybe also some other changes in api.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

The Telus Fascinate is essentially a Vibrant. Given that no other SGS Froyo leaks have been ported to our device, I doubt having the source to a Froyo leak will give much more than we already had. It may however get a more stable Froyo release for the GSM models.

imnuts said:
The Telus Fascinate is essentially a Vibrant. Given that no other SGS Froyo leaks have been ported to our device, I doubt having the source to a Froyo leak will give much more than we already had. It may however get a more stable Froyo release for the GSM models.
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This. The problem has been with the RIL, basically getting the OS to play nice with the radio. Radios on the Telus Fascinate and the Verizon one are totally different.
Kaos is making ridiculous progress though.

CM7 and The future of the Vibrant

While the T959 is a well built phone with great specs, I felt like it was incomplete until 2.2 ROMs came out in November. Then, when 2.3 and the Nexus S were announced, that feeling returned.. now with Cyanogenmod7 working so well, I am in love with my Vibrant once again.
Even without any further version updates (2.4, 3.0 if possible) the phone has been improved dramatically by the work of Team Whiskey, Supercurio, Eugene, and the Cyanogenmod Team.
What keeps the Vibrant apart from all the HTC and Motorola phones when it comes to Cyanogenmod - is it a driver issue? Is it because of the Hummingbird processor?
Now that CM7 is finally working well on the Vibrant, does this mean that future Cyanogenmod versions will work on the Vibrant? Have they finally "cracked the shell" so to speak?

I am curious also as to what makes CyanogenMod different to work on for our phones vs the other ones you named.

CM is actually worse for Motorola devices as they have a locked bootloader...
On the other hand, HTC is very good about releasing source for their devices when compared to Samsung, who rarely releases source code if at all (driver source). Plus, CM started on HTCs, and with every device using similar Qualcomm hardware, i can imagine it is easier to port to newer Qualcomm-equipped HTC devices. That said, it appears that HTC is beginning to implement software to prevent rooting on newer phones like the G2, so we may see more people moving towards the more open Samsung devices.

Finally, this is explained to me. Thanks!
Why do drivers need to be recompiled for each version of Android? Do they need to be recompiled for similar releases such as 2.0 and 2.1 or 2.3 and 2.4?

I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to the Linux architecture, so take the following with a grain of salt.
Anyways, I believe it has to do with the kernel, which should contain the device drivers. Now, kernels must indeed be recompiled for every android system update; this is why a 2.1 or 2.2 kernel will not work with the newer 2.3.x roms. The problem for us is that once Samsung stops releasing kernels/roms for the SGS series, devs will no longer have a base to build off of. Hopefully devs can make use of updates/drivers from the Nexus S to keep the SGS series up to date with CM.

qtilt ......... nicely explained

oka1 said:
qtilt ......... nicely explained
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I agree!

The main difference between CM/MIUI and the rest of the roms you see here on XDA is that CM/MIUI are built directly off of a Vanilla Froyo/Gingerbread. No extra flavorings or seasonings such as TouchWiz, HTC Sense, MotoBlur, Droid UI, etc. The use of, or misuse of, causes phones to run slower and do more work (unnecessarily) while it computes extra calculations of the UI. [EDIT]When developers BASE a rom off of a leak or pre-existing firmware it does not make it Vanilla just by removing TWiz or Sense or the rest of bloatware. Vanilla is generally the most simple a firmware can be, with no added extra-pazzaz[/EDIT]
There hasn't been a solid update to MIUI for our phone in a month, but CM has nightly builds and HOPEFULLY it has "cracked the shell," so to speak. Even if Samsung STOPS upgrading our firmware (which has already happened IMO), CyanogenMod makes their own code and develops independently without the use of previous stockpiles of code...which is why it's difficult at first to come up with their own driver source (because Samsung refuses to release ALL the sources needed). Hopefully our Vibrant is covered for the next 2.4 or 3.0 (3.1) update.

Samsung needs to continue to make money. They wouldn't if they let each phone update to the newest andros os. Not just samsung, any hardware company.
Sent from my vibrant using cyanogenmod7.

boltdidit said:
Samsung needs to continue to make money. They wouldn't if they let each phone update to the newest android os. Not just Samsung, any hardware company.
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I disagree with this because, If Samsung released the code and people updated their phones as they liked and put different operating systems, roms as they liked. customer satisfaction would skyrocket. People would be more likely to buy new phones only from Samsung because they wanted the newest available hardware, read this as faster more flexible with more options.
but alas Samsung as with most of the manufacturers suffer from penny wise and dollar stupid syndrome and they end up being fairly low on the customer satisfaction scale another words they suck

rbcamping said:
I disagree with this because, If Samsung released the code and people updated their phones as they liked and put different operating systems, roms as they liked. customer satisfaction would skyrocket. People would be more likely to buy new phones only from Samsung because they wanted the newest available hardware, read this as faster more flexible with more options.
but alas Samsung as with most of the manufacturers suffer from penny wise and dollar stupid syndrome and they end up being fairly low on the customer satisfaction scale another words they suck
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As a hardware company customer satisfaction is one thing and making them buy more of their products is another. If your 4,5-years old phone can still upgrade to the newest OS why would you buy a new one? So there is a balance for them to keep, their want to make their customer happy with their product but not too happy so their stay with old product forever.
That's very much why samsung was hesitated about 2.3 upgrade for the galaxy line.

The future of the device has more to do with whether or not the developers stick with the device. With the SGS being an international phone there is a better chance of this happening, and samsung has started getting better with releasing their source. As mentioned earlier HTC is making devices harder to root, for example the HTC desire CDMA with 2.2 is impossible to root and the G2 was an annoyance.
Also samsung has released multiple phones that are very close to the Vibrant such as the Nexus S and the Vibrant 4g. The Nexus S will be updated for awhile and source will be released for it, so its something though not much. The Vibrant 4g will also hopefully be updated and that will hopefully be an easy port. Also 2.4 is very similar to 2.3 so that will hopefully be an easy update for the developers.
Basically as long as we have the awesome devs that we have and we dont flame everyone that the devs get tired of working with the phone then we will have a device that will be updated and beautiful.

I want a stock style gingerbread, and I hope a touchwiz themed CM7 coming out.

vvsnail said:
I want a stock style gingerbread, and I hope a touchwiz themed CM7 coming out.
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I believe Krylon is working on Stock, as for a Twiz themed CM7 I ask why?

bearsfan85 said:
I believe Krylon is working on Stock, as for a Twiz themed CM7 I ask why?
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Ha, this is whats to come. CM7 hasn't arrived yet and now they want it with twiz. The ridding of twiz is part of what makes it great.
Sent from my SGH-T959

joe.kerwin said:
Ha, this is whats to come. CM7 hasn't arrived yet and now they want it with twiz. The ridding of twiz is part of what makes it great.
Sent from my SGH-T959
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+1 agree 100%

bearsfan85 said:
The future of the device has more to do with whether or not the developers stick with the device. With the SGS being an international phone there is a better chance of this happening, and samsung has started getting better with releasing their source.
...
Basically as long as we have the awesome devs that we have and we dont flame everyone that the devs get tired of working with the phone then we will have a device that will be updated and beautiful.
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Amen. Well stated.