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Someone on AndroidSPIN mentioned this and I figured it deserved it's own topic because this may be hard evidence and not speculation.
Steven Drzaszcz 1 hour ago
There seems to be credible evidence here that the original Vibrant, at least in theory should support 14.4 : Halfway down the page, it mentions the samsung vibrant using the infineon 5703, which on their site, lists Class 10 as the chip support (14.4 speed)
http://www.ubmtechinsights.com/repo...estigative-analysis/samsung-galaxy-s/teardown
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6ac1120609
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If the SGS does, in fact, have that chip- it could support 14.4 and be software locked to prevent it from accessing it. Anyone who knows more about hardware wanna take a stab at this? Thanks Steven at AndroidSPIN for bringing these facts out.
that is quite intriguing. Wonder what the "unlock key" is for this thing (if this is true.)
Nice post, I was just mentioning something like this in another thread.
It looks like they tore down a euro I9000 tho, not a T959.
I'm still willing to bet it's the same chip.
Now to find the method they used to cripple it.....
I think they have the same chips.
Interesting, that would be awesome if this was true and we were able to get 4G!
The Vibrant is capable of HSPA, not HSPA+. Basically meaning the Vibrant can use the tmobile 4g network but NOT at the advertised HSPA+ speeds. You will NOT be seeing 14mbs downloads on the carriers network.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
How fast have people got their Vibrants up to? Just got my gf a Captivate and it would be awesome if she saw a speed boost whenever AT&T gets off their fat ass and joins the 4G party.
mmalott said:
The Vibrant is capable of HSPA, not HSPA+. Basically meaning the Vibrant can use the tmobile 4g network but NOT at the advertised HSPA+ speeds. You will NOT be seeing 14mbs downloads on the carriers network.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Do you know anything about hspa? The 7.2 hspa uses 16qam the 21 hspa+ uses 64qam. Same technology, same band. Simply faster modulation unless they use duel band in which both techs are supported. Im saying its possible. Not that it does or doesn't but I can debunk the not possible.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Phateless said:
How fast have people got their Vibrants up to? Just got my gf a Captivate and it would be awesome if she saw a speed boost whenever AT&T gets off their fat ass and joins the 4G party.
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AT&T has upgraded almost all of their 3G network to HSPA+ already. The reason AT&T speeds are slower than T-Mobile speeds is the simple fact that they have considerably more customers accessing their network at any given time.
Phateless said:
How fast have people got their Vibrants up to? Just got my gf a Captivate and it would be awesome if she saw a speed boost whenever AT&T gets off their fat ass and joins the 4G party.
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I'm gonna guess the fastest anyone's ever gotten on their Vibrant is 7.2mbps.
Just a guess.
remove your sim and power up the phone and hit (*#2263#) it will take you to a network service menu you want to select all bands and you will be utilizing the 4G network at that point....You may need a New 4G SIM card and or a Rom that Supports the 4G Data...Just my thoughts.
N8ter said:
AT&T has upgraded almost all of their 3G network to HSPA+ already. The reason AT&T speeds are slower than T-Mobile speeds is the simple fact that they have considerably more customers accessing their network at any given time.
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Why haven't they announced a single 4G phone yet? I know AT&T and T-mobile share part of their network, so I'm surprised that I haven't heard anything so far.
My understanding is that the 4G also has to be enabled by T-mobile for your account.
swehes said:
My understanding is that the 4G also has to be enabled by T-mobile for your account.
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I think that's a load of bs. If the phone has reception it will use the network.
DaveNavy said:
remove your sim and power up the phone and hit (*#2263#) it will take you to a network service menu you want to select all bands and you will be utilizing the 4G network at that point....You may need a New 4G SIM card and or a Rom that Supports the 4G Data...Just my thoughts.
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I tried what you said and yes a menu does come up, BUT, the selections are
1 Automatic
2 WCDMA BAND (Which is only GSM 3G)
3 GSM BAND (EDGE/GPRS)
4 COMBI BANDS.
It would seem if the theory is true, then certian software would have to be mod(ROMS) so that it would unlock or reconize the chip as being able to use the 4G data side for T-mobile/ATT. I know all of T-mobiles sim cards are the same regardless if you have a 4G phone or not. If the device/phone is able to pick up the signal it will automaticly, I don't think there is a separate data plan for the 4G(I'll be talking to tech support to verify) But Tmobile is switching to newer sim cards that will work better with there network in every phone regardless if its 4G/3G/or Edge.
i just got off the chat with a rep about the sim card thing
Julian Magana: if i enable 4g threw my plan will i need a new sim card
~Michael C: Welcome to T-Mobile Chat service Julian. My name is Michael and for your reference my rep ID is 13-20364. First, please allow me one moment to review the information you have provided.
Julian Magana: hello
~Michael C: Thank you for your patience. All of the our data plans for Smartphones will support the 4G speeds. There's no need to change your SIM card.
Julian Magana: ive seen several articles out the the vibrant + and the original vibrant are the exact same thing minus the ffc
~Michael C: I can't really say anything until Samsung releases the specifications of the new phone, since we don't have any information on it yet. It's possible that it could be 4G since we have a few 4G devices out, but we can't tell until Samsung releases the information.
Julian Magana: ok and i found this which compares both + and original
Julian Magana: http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Samsung-Vibrant-4G,Samsung-Vibrant/phones/5138,4747
Julian Magana: what do u know about that
~Michael C: I can't verify how accurate the information is because the details haven't been officially announced. According to that link it supports current 4G speeds (21 mbps)
Julian Magana: so if rumors are true, then the original vibrant can fully utilize 4g speeds but samsung has it hardware locked correct?
~Michael C: I haven't seen any cases where a phone was able to go from 3G to 4G speeds because of the firmware, the phone would need to be designed to use the 4G network.
Julian Magana: meaning a 4g antenna correct?
~Michael C: I'm not sure of the exact details, but the hardware needs to be built to use the 4G network. The Vibrant was a 3G phone released before we made any 4G phones, I don't think changing the original Vibrants to 4G would be an option.
Julian Magana: well if thats the case then im sure there will be a 4g antenna mod
Julian Magana: thats all the questions i have thank you for ur help
~Michael C: You're welcome. Thank you for contacting T-Mobile Chat. Have a good day Julian.
Thank you for using our online help. You may now close this window.
Your session has ended. You may now close this window.
he was real quick about ending the session lol
yes the chip is capable of 14.4 but is locked for now to 7.2, Some guy from Samsung even comfirmed this as well, infact he confirmed It I believe on January 11th or the 12th when people were talking about the Vibrant 4G.
Very interesting! I'm holding a possible free upgrade to the vibrant 4g in my hand! I'm keeping aneye on this thread!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Just an observation but can the T-Mobile techs on chat get just a little bit of credit for...
1. being fairly knowledgeable about their products
2. doing a pretty good job of not promising something they know they can't deliver
3. being nice enough to put up the sh*t we propeller heads tend to give them via a chat or phone support session?
I know this isn't quite the right thread for it but a good part of the reason I've stuck with T-Mobile all these years is that they have always seemed to do a better job at supporting their products than their competitors...
So, lets give them credit if credit is due to them for doing a good job in the face of the swelling public outcry!
proresearch said:
yes the chip is capable of 14.4 but is locked for now to 7.2, Some guy from Samsung even comfirmed this as well, infact he confirmed It I believe on January 11th or the 12th when people were talking about the Vibrant 4G.
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you say this with such certaintity and state it as fact, can you provide the proof someone at samsung said this?
I called AT&T today to ask about the HSUPA update. (Dial 611) And after being put on hold a few times, they said that they would have a manager call me back. Around 8:30, I got a voicemail (no call) from the manager, but when I returned her phone call, I spoke with a woman who offered me a $25 courtesy credit. I pressed her on the update and she swore up and down that it would be released in April, although she declined to give me that in writing. While AT&T has very little credibility with me, I wasn't too proud to accept $25. I recommend making the call.
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
I also asked about unlock code, rep said, officially att will provice unlock code in dec 11
sam_t610 said:
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Smallsmx3 said:
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
wirednix said:
How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
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I think he is referring to the fact that the update will simply increase upload speeds, while dl speed will remain unchanged, which does not have a huge impact on normal use...unless you are seeding torrents via your cell data plan I suppose.
sam_t610 said:
I also asked about unlock code, rep said, officially att will provice unlock code in dec 11
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Just wondering since I've never been to the states and I don't know about AT&T's history and policies.
Does that mean AT&T and Motorola has a kind of an agreement that unlock codes will not be given to users until a certain time passes? for exclusivity I mean.
I'm asking that because I wondered if the locked bootloader is also within the security package Motorola has provided to AT&T and maybe after that date Motorola can officially release the code.
Smallsmx3 said:
sam_t610 said:
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Pretty sure he knows that its not actually 4g, or he wouldnt have said "so called 4g" but thats what att calls it, so get off your high horse and read before you flame someone.
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wirednix said:
How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
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Honestly the change to your upload is not super notable unless you are sending mms. I have hsupa on this inspire and thats about the only time I see a difference.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
daveop said:
Honestly the change to your upload is not super notable unless you are sending mms. I have hsupa on this inspire and thats about the only time I see a difference.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
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Isn't HSUPA still disabled on the Inspire?
decoyd said:
Isn't HSUPA still disabled on the Inspire?
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Easily remedied on the inspire.
Smallsmx3 said:
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people...
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This is by no means a defense of AT&T's rather liberal definition of "4G," but if you want some research, this is what I came across while I was on hold. So if you're interested in having more than vague internet rumors to support your claims that AT&T isn't living up to its end of the bargin, here you go:
4G has no official definition.
ITU on 4G: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx
4G Americas on HSPA:
http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page§ionid=247
I think the above link is actually quite damning of AT&T's actions with respect to disabling HSUPA on the Atrix. The group defines an HSPA network as one that is using both HSDPA and HSUPA (aka E-DCH) simultaneously. While 4G Americas is not a standards organization, they are a powerful telecom industry lobbying organization of which AT&T is an influential member. (see http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page§ionid=160)
3GPP on HSPA+:
http://www.3gpp.org/HSPA
While HSPA+ is mentioned on the above linked 3GPP webpage, there is little mention of HSPA+ by name in the technological specifications --the specifications deal mostly with the constituent technologies that make up HSPA+. When HSPA+ is mentioned, from what I've read, it's mentioned as Evolved HSPA or something similar. HSDPA is frequently mentioned as it has been in the pipleline since Release 5, and HSUPA is only mentioned by this moniker in a few places --it is most commonly referred to as E-DCH or Enhanced Uplink.
I would love to see an official 3GPP release that explicitly says "For a network to qualify as an HSPA+ network, ..." but I haven't found something that helpful. The standard is a bit of a disaster because: (1) it's HUGE with over a decade of revisions, and (2) a large number of standards have been withdrawn. Many technical specifications that have not been withdrawn will mention a technology that is not being defined and reference a withdrawn specification. I'm not sure what that means for the non-withdrawn specifications.
Here are a few interesting things that I was able to pull up from the 3GPP site. Unfortunately, the specifications use a lot of "shoulds" and "mays."
From 3GPP TR 25.999 version 7.1.0 Release 7 (HSPA evolution Technical Report) "Evolved HSPA should be able to operate as a packet-only network based on utilization of the high speed data channels only (HS-DSCH, E-DCH and associated channels)."
If this is stating that an HSPA+ network must use HSUPA and HSDPA, clearly AT&T fails. Even though HSUPA is running concurrently on the network, as Atrix users can't use it, claiming the network satisfies the HSUPA requirement would be a little like your cable company claiming they provide you HBO because your neighbor has it.
Again, from the same document: "Evolved HSPA protocol architecture shall have minimum impact on [user equipment] especially in terms of complexity, to allow for easy introduction."
I think a compelling argument can be made that the loss of HSUPA functionality on the Atrix has caused problems with the Atrix working on foreign data networks. The Atrix should be able to operate on foreign HSPA+networks that are frequency-compatible, but the burden of proof is on AT&T to show that their modifications don't interfere with basic usage of the Atrix on other HSPA+ networks.
From 3GPP TS 25.319 version 7.8.0 Release 7 (Enhanced Uplink Technical Report) "The Enhanced Uplink feature shall enable to achieve[sic] significant improvements in overall system performance when operated together with HSDPA. Emphasis shall be given on the potential impact the new feature may have on the downlink capacity."
By forcing the uplink to travel on a separate network, not only has AT&T demolished the uplink speeds, downlink performance has suffered, too. I've seen speculation that the latency issues can, in part, be attributed to the fact that the uplink and downlink packets are out of sync, causing a lot of unnecessary data retransmission; although, I can't cite anything definitive to prove this.
From 25.999 "[The UTRAN architecture] should reduce user plane latency to legacy (R5,6 & 7) & beyond R7 terminals" and "reduce control plane latency to beyond R7 terminals and, if low complexity cost effective means can be
found, also to legacy terminals."
While only considering latency in one direction, on one fragment of the network, AT&T may have met these requirements, but in aggregate, latency has jumped by an order of magnitude. In 25.999, there is a table of target ping latencies, with HSPA+ being listed at <50ms. AT&T's solution is nowhere near that level of performance.
There is a lot of information in 25.999 regarding the deployment of an HSPA+ network into an existing HSPA network, but without details of how AT&T has structured their upgrade, there is little one can glean from this. Although, it is clear that HSPA networks are considered as separate entities from HSPA+ networks. For example, from 25.999:
"The potential HSPA Architecture evolution will be defined independently from enhancements in the HSPA radio interface (both layer 1 and radio protocols). Thus, the traditional UTRAN interfaces (Iu, Iur and Iub) shall be enhanced in order to support the features included in the evolved HSPA radio interface. However this does not preclude the possibility to introduce new features in the HSPA radio interface, in case they are beneficial mainly to one of the
architectures."
Here they are specifying that the HSPA standard will be updated so that the interfaces (Iu, Iub, Iur) between the various sections of the network can be shared by HSPA and HSPA+ networks. But its clear that HSPA networks are distinct from HSPA+ networks.
You can find these documents here: http://www.3gpp.org/Specification-Numbering
You have to submit your email address to download the documents, but it is very easy.
Courtesy credit
I got 25 Bucks credit too!!!
Jeez some people are so hard up for $25 that they'd jump through hoops on the phone with AT&T?
BTW I notice HSUPA when I take a photo and e-mail it, which I do fairly often. With ~2mbps upload it is about 10 seconds per pic, with 5x slower speed well you wouldn't want to be sending more than one at almost a minute each.
So, I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd start one to get a discussion going here. Anyway, as far as I can tell enabling HSUPA is only the first step. Because, while that will get us full HSPA support, it's HSPA+ that gives us the "4G" speeds that our phones are supposed to be capable of.
So, it seems we may have a long wait until the network can fully support our phones.
True, but HSPA is plenty fast once HSUPA is enabled. My latency is ~100ms with ~3mbps down and ~1.5mbps up on average..much better than 250+ms and 1.5/.3 before the HSUPA flash. Browsing and the Market app seem much snappier.
New Modd confirmed and working, noticed on my RDC connection....
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I've done the whole diagnosis tweaking (release 6) and pretty much all of the other tweaks I've found in these very helpful threads.
But my download and upload speeds are atrocious. 80-150 kbs mostly. I ALWAYS have a 3g signal. I'm located in Boston and before this I had a Tilt2, which data speeds avg. 2000 - 3500 kbs.
Could it be my sim card? it is like 3-4 years old. Just a thought, because really i have no idea.
I am a novice when it comes to this type of tweaking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
The specs indicate that the Focus is only capable of HSPA (HSDPA and HSUPA), not HSPA+.
Michael.
ouch, that hurts....8(
Thanks for the quick reply...much appreciated
But your Focus should still be able to match the speed of your Tilt2 which is HSPA as well (but with HSUPA disabled). The real world experience really depends where you are and how many AT&T customers are on the same tower as you. I routinely get about 100kbps speed (download) on my various 3G smart phones as well here in nation's capital.
On the other hand, a lot of ppl who bought the new '4G' HSPA+ AT&T phones (Inspire 4G and Atrix 4G) are also rarely ever get HSPA+ speed at all. Those so called 4G phones also comes with HSUPA disabled.
So, in the end, it is the same crappy AT&T network that limits your connection speed, really doesn't matter what phone you have. I'll be happy if I can reach the full 3G speed (2 to 3 mbps down, 1mbps up) in next few years. And refuse to play the AT&T '4G' game.
You should get a new sim card considering it is 3-4 years old that will affect connectivity to 3g and hspa network..
Boston network shouldn't be a problem.
Samsung Focus At&t USA
I had the same problem when I had an old SIM card in my att fuze when trying to connect to 3g and hspa speed networks...rule of thumb is buy a new SIM when switching to a new phone....it also depends on what network your on...are you at&t?
Samsung Focus At&t USA
Yes, I am currently on Att network. Which I must say was really reliable and fast, up until the last few months...
And I will get a new sim card after work today or early tomorrow. I will let you know if that helps at all.
Thanks peeps 8)
Jcavz said:
I've done the whole diagnosis tweaking (release 6) and pretty much all of the other tweaks I've found in these very helpful threads.
But my download and upload speeds are atrocious. 80-150 kbs mostly. I ALWAYS have a 3g signal. I'm located in Boston and before this I had a Tilt2, which data speeds avg. 2000 - 3500 kbs.
Could it be my sim card? it is like 3-4 years old. Just a thought, because really i have no idea.
I am a novice when it comes to this type of tweaking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
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Samsung Focus unlocked I get 3G+ in EU, if that helps. Seemed pretty fast, but I haven't done a speed test, though.
Usually I unlock my phone as soon as I get it home. With a bunch of unknowns with the Focus, I'm waiting it out right now before I do anything
So My phone is still locked 8)
Thanks for the help
I got 3G+ icoon with Rogers ROM, but not with AT&T ROM. And there's tool which can enable 3G+ icon, so I think it's just a registry issue.
3g+
I also get 3G+ with a Rogers sim card in my Focus, same card in the BB only 3G.
Is it possible to check whether this is just graphic, or there is a real difference in d/u speeds? I am using AT&T Focus in Europe.
You can check real speed with speediest.net to differentiate whether its gfx only or real network.
rrmcco said:
I also get 3G+ with a Rogers sim card in my Focus, same card in the BB only 3G.
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I'd love to hear what results you get if you test out the download/upload speeds. Like others have said you can use speedtest.net or there's a pretty good app called Bandwidth that I use.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I'm getting a Focus and will unlock it to use on T-Mobile. What's the highest speed I can get? Thanks.
ikingblack said:
I'm getting a Focus and will unlock it to use on T-Mobile. What's the highest speed I can get? Thanks.
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7.2 mbps download
siralex241 said:
7.2 mbps download
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tmobile's edge network is that fast?
minori_aoi said:
I got 3G+ icoon with Rogers ROM, but not with AT&T ROM. And there's tool which can enable 3G+ icon, so I think it's just a registry issue.
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Do you have a link to the tool that enables the 3G+ icon
baritoneguy said:
Do you have a link to the tool that enables the 3G+ icon
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minori_aoi said:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Connectivity\CellularUx\DataConnectionIcon
1XHSDPA = "3G+"
You can basically change it into anything (3 chars max.). And I prefer "H", instead of "3G+".
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My original post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=17018543&postcount=6
i have a dvp on att, but the keyboard is broken. i also have a tmobile dvp. i got an unlock code and i am plannign to use it with my att sim.
im wondering tho, will my connection or signal be less than optimal on the att network?
anyone know?
I'm going to offer a preliminary response. Others please respond with more specifics.
Your new T-Mobile DVP's 3G band will be set to UMTS 1700/2100. AT&T's 3G band is UMTS 850/1900. Their highest shared standard is EDGE, which means you only get 2G speed
I've heard some buzzings that AT&T and T-Mobile DVP hardware is exactly the same, and possibly that changes made in the EM Engineering Mobile app, or a process or updating the phone using AT&T cabs will set the proper band selection. I would be interested to know more about this myself.
You may just want to swap the keyboard. Sounds easier to me.
Technosquid said:
I'm going to offer a preliminary response. Others please respond with more specifics.
Your new T-Mobile DVP's 3G band will be set to UMTS 1700/2100. AT&T's 3G band is UMTS 850/1900. Their highest shared standard is EDGE, which means you only get 2G speed
I've heard some buzzings that AT&T and T-Mobile DVP hardware is exactly the same, and possibly that changes made in the EM Engineering Mobile app, or a process or updating the phone using AT&T cabs will set the proper band selection. I would be interested to know more about this myself.
You may just want to swap the keyboard. Sounds easier to me.
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yeah I think the buzzings were just all buzz peeps playing with the em app never could quite release them of their carrier frequency jail.. Seems like the dvp just cant dance the penta dance.
I second the keyboard swap! I posted the service manual just recently and the dvp shouldn't be too hard..
wow thanks for the guid3e!!! gonna try this asap.
asdffgjh said:
wow thanks for the guid3e!!! gonna try this asap.
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It's not that much more work to get to the screen/glass... make sure to clean/seal it when you're in there too since the dust issue is so annoying. Ruins the sexiness of using it. And man I've never came across a DVP with no dust on the screen. Others might be luckier, but even my new DVP had (minor) dust after a couple of weeks. Sigh. Oh hey a cowboy emoticon
manual link again: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27641407&postcount=25