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Hey guys just a question. I know rooting the Dell streak can get you on the hsdpa(or something like that) network but is that the 4G speed? If not is there a way right now to get 4G on the streak?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/2g-3g-4g-and-everything-in-between-an-engadget-wireless-prim/
with that in mind, what do you define as 4g? if you are referring to hspa+ or lte, im not sure, but if you are referring to the actual definition of 4g then i doubt it, but we have to wait for it to be invented first
rptw said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/2g-3g-4g-and-everything-in-between-an-engadget-wireless-prim/
with that in mind, what do you define as 4g? if you are referring to hspa+ or lte, im not sure, but if you are referring to the actual definition of 4g then i doubt it, but we have to wait for it to be invented first
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I was wondering when someone would do a write up of all that. I have yet to try AT&T's new 4G but I'm sure it's as fast as my rooted HTC Aria's HSPA+
You will not get 4g with the streak just 3.5g.
Sent from the Almighty Streak 1.7.0
4G is only the nick name of hspa, which already support hsdpa up to 10Mbps or more and also HSUPA up to 5.76Mbps. All those are 3G TECHNOLOGY as increasing slightly. All.the 3.5G and 4G are 3G tech which develope faster and faster.
3G comes with max speed 384kbps.
and then 3.5 come with HSDPA up to 7Mbps
then 4G comes with HSDPA upto 14Mbps and HSUPA 5.76Mbps
but truely no cellphone providr gave u that max speed as the costumers are sharing bandwidth.
To acces 4G u dont need dell.streak, u can use nokia 5800 which already support up to 4.6Mbps.
Its really depends on your device which is support hsdpa and hsupa , and also depends on your networks provider how fast they can give u. I believe that if u are inside the elevator u will have only gprs or even worst with no signal or sos symbol.
CMIIW ( correct me if im wrong )
I was actually wondering about this as well as AT&T is now advertising 4G "using our existing HSPA network" and after installing StreakDroid I'm seeing the H up top instead of a 3G. That said my speed is typically 2mbps - 3mbps which is somewhere around the 3.5 range mentioned above. Still much faster than I had on my iPhone (and sometimes faster than DSL when the network is having issues.)
I don't really care about this at all. I was just curious. Since it was out on the market now. Hopefully see you all soon on the STREAK side of life
AkumaMax said:
I don't really care about this at all. I was just curious. Since it was out on the market now. Hopefully see you all soon on the STREAK side of life
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The dell streak will never run on 4G speeds. The streak was not built to handle 4G. Sorry to break it to you.
Heck, I'd like it if at&t could at least offer 3g speeds.. I never even see 2m let alone 7s.. :-/
My email to her is below. But here is her response. So just hold it out people. It is coming. The phone supports it. AT&T just needs to "Turn it on"
Hi Donnie,
This means that the 4g Atrix is going to be ABLE to use the 4G service once it is available however, we do not have the service alive yet therefore you will not get those speeds at this time. We are proactively working on getting the network upgraded. Houston is a HOT spot for this project so I know it will not be long.
Thank you,
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Email i sent to my at&t rep who handles my corp account of about 150 phones.
According to ATT Website the Atrix, supports “4G” By using HSPA+. Houston is a HSPA+ market, but we have been unable to HSPA+ service.
We contacted CS and they said it was prolly a down tower. But I do a lot of driving and know that one tower would not affect all of Houston. So we hit up Google, and the results are disturbing. Motorola says it does not support HSPA+. Yet att website says it does. Many sites say that AT&T has disabled it. We need to know the truth. We bought this phone because it is listed as a 4G phone, but it seems we were misled. If you would please research this and shed some light on the matter.
https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/331802#331802
http://www.att.com/network/assets/maps/Houston.html
Thanks,
Donnie
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More BS from AT&T.
HSUPA is DISABLED on this device and i don't care how many lies at&t will try to push to cover this up.
Hey Donnie,
Had pretty much the same question for my Rep yesterday. Let me go ahead and say that I've yet to go to a market that is HSPA+ with my Atrix; my rep doesn't have one yet, she has an Inspire. She has been in "4G" market coverage where her phone shows 4+, the indication for 4G, and it's faster than her IP3 but not 2x as fast as 4G is supposed to be.
She told me that some markets are "4G" but only in the sense that they are running at 3.1 Mbps, which according to the FCC qualifies, hence At&t saying they have no 4G coverage. 4G being 7.2 Mbps.
She also informed me that At&t is not pushing 4G upgrades so much as they are pushing LTE upgrades, which according to her can run 5x as fast as 4G?
Sorry for the rambling, but I thought you might like that information.
clubtech said:
More BS from AT&T.
HSUPA is DISABLED on this device and i don't care how many lies at&t will try to push to cover this up.
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Again at&t will enable it when they want to go live with it. Point is Atrix, supports it. And will when the network is ready.
Not sure what counts as hspa+ speeds but im getting 4.5 mbps down where im sitting right now
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
DrakenAlTi said:
Hey Donnie,
Had pretty much the same question for my Rep yesterday. Let me go ahead and say that I've yet to go to a market that is HSPA+ with my Atrix; my rep doesn't have one yet, she has an Inspire. She has been in "4G" market coverage where her phone shows 4+, the indication for 4G, and it's faster than her IP3 but not 2x as fast as 4G is supposed to be.
She told me that some markets are "4G" but only in the sense that they are running at 3.1 Mbps, which according to the FCC qualifies, hence At&t saying they have no 4G coverage. 4G being 7.2 Mbps.
She also informed me that At&t is not pushing 4G upgrades so much as they are pushing LTE upgrades, which according to her can run 5x as fast as 4G?
Sorry for the rambling, but I thought you might like that information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow really? Theyre not pushing 4g, theyre pushing lte? LTE is 4g. What att is calling 4g now is not 4g its 3g with overhaul. 7.2 mbps? The iphone 3gs could theoretically achieve these speeds but not on att. I like the atrix bht i didnt buy it for (4g) speeds. NO NETWORK HAS TRUE 4G!!!!!!
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
donniesd said:
Again at&t will enable it when they want to go live with it. Point is Atrix, supports it. And will when the network is ready.
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We are talking about basic 3g they are disabling here ....nothing to do with hspa+.....
But you can believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better.
I know we're not getting HSPA+ speeds, but there's something even more. I have yet to see someone get more than 400Kbps UPLINK.
This is not just on AT&T.
Can someone ask an AT&T Rep about THAT!
Odd how my Captivate has HSUPA speeds yet my brother's Atrix doesn't... So much for the speeds not being available...
clubtech said:
More BS from AT&T.
HSUPA is DISABLED on this device and i don't care how many lies at&t will try to push to cover this up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSPA+ *IS NOT* HSUPA. They're separate services. When AT&T enables HSPA+ across the country they'll also most likely send out a patch to enable HSUPA on the devices. Settle down on the conspiracy theories.
HSPA+ isn't enabled because the system isn't finished. We *all* knew this. When it is (in the next month or 2, most likely) they'll enable it and you'll see the difference overnight. My dad's worked for AT&T for 42 years as a repair tech (one of the 2 in this state that upgrade a majority of the HSPA+ and LTE hardware) and said the rough estimate looks like late March or very early April for HSPA+ and LTE in fall.
MarcMaiden said:
Not sure what counts as hspa+ speeds but im getting 4.5 mbps down where im sitting right now
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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that is great speeds... im in an area where there is no H+ yet, in greensbroo NC but Charlotte NC has it and we a re the next to get it in NC... and i am getting 3.8 but without the HUSPA, we are getting .3/.4 uploads... no matter how fast our DL's are without an upload to match it... those speeds are kinda pointless
"HSPA+ *IS NOT* HSUPA. ...
HSPA+ isn't enabled because"
Well, my phone shows "H+" up top, indicating it is enabled in this area. But AT&T has some clever ideas about hardware deployment. When I called to ask about some problems last year the rep said "Oh, I see there are a number of degraded towers in your area, that could be the problem." "Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
I said "Yes, can you give me Verizon's number? I'd like to ask them how there towers are." <WEG>
Hey, I know one's no better than the other in the big picture. But lord, does the FTC need to make the cellcos ALL COME CLEAN and stop the lies.
Apparently the H+ doesn't necessarily signify HSPA+. Covers 3G and their "4G".
"Question:
What is this "H+" icon on my phone's screen?
Answer:
The "H+" icon is a network indicator. When present, it lets you know that your phone is operating on our 3G or 4G network (where available). "
"Question:
How will I know if I'm on the 4G network vs. your 3G network? Is there any visual indicator on the phone's screen itself?
Answer:
While there is no visual indicator on the phone's screen that differentiates the difference between 3G and 4G data speeds, when experiencing 4G speeds your videos and streaming movies will download/play even faster, web sites will load even faster, and large files will download faster. "
"Question:
Will that "H+" icon ever change to something else? If so, what other icons might I expect to see and what do they mean?
Answer:
The H+ icon will remain lit while connected to either our 3G mobile broadband or 4G network (where available). Should you travel outside of those coverage areas and/or experience extreme network congestion, the icon may display EDGE or E while on our 2G data network or, in some instances, it will display GSM. "
Att rep for our company confirmed that they are working together with verizon to "pull the trigger" on 4g running at full throttle within the next couple of weeks. He showed me some emails and charts showing that they have installed verizon's hardware in their towers and are debugging it now. I did not see that "partnership" coming at all to be honest lol Keeping fingers crossed ))
Hawk375 said:
Apparently the H+ doesn't necessarily signify HSPA+. Covers 3G and their "4G".
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I noticed this up here after doing this MOD. Before the mod the notification bar only showed H+ all of the time. Now it bounced between 3G and H (not sure about H+). I am assuming the display I am getting now is correct.
hotleadsingerguy said:
HSPA+ *IS NOT* HSUPA. They're separate services. When AT&T enables HSPA+ across the country they'll also most likely send out a patch to enable HSUPA on the devices. Settle down on the conspiracy theories.
HSPA+ isn't enabled because the system isn't finished. We *all* knew this. When it is (in the next month or 2, most likely) they'll enable it and you'll see the difference overnight. My dad's worked for AT&T for 42 years as a repair tech (one of the 2 in this state that upgrade a majority of the HSPA+ and LTE hardware) and said the rough estimate looks like late March or very early April for HSPA+ and LTE in fall.
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Click to collapse
Okay that makes sense but why is it though that other devices like my unlocked streak or nexus one get much higher upload speeds than the atrix? Is it something in their rom that is allowing them to get good upload and the atrix rom not allowing it to? Trying to make sense of it all.
Dell Streak powered by Streakdroid 1.8.1
Video with proof
It's obvious to everyone now, but I made a video that can easily be shown to anyone who doesn't believe the ATRIX has slower speeds than something like the iPhone.
Show this to AT&T and then they'll shut their mouth about "possibly a defective device."
www[dot]youtube[dot]com/watch?v=X5YMJT08N64&hd=1
I'm sick of this bs. Why cant this company live up to their promises?
the atrix isn't even an HSPA+ device, it has an HSDPA cat 10 modem...
The Atrix is supposed to have the HSPA+ transceiver in it. Whether it is disabled or does not work because the network blocks access since HSPA+ is not fully deployed is a question heavily discussed in other threads in these forums. However, you should realize the LTE requires a different transceiver, which reviews have indicated the Atrix does not have.
So even if LTE is deployed this fall, the best the Atrix will be able to do is HSPA+, not LTE. Supposedly, LTE-capable smartphones are supposed to be announced this summer sometime.
Wanna wait?
wrayrb said:
So even if LTE is deployed this fall, the best the Atrix will be able to do is HSPA+, not LTE. Supposedly, LTE-capable smartphones are supposed to be announced this summer sometime.
Wanna wait?
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Yes, when I see the disaster with Verizon's first LTE phone the HTC Thunderbolt (still not released)....I wanna wait even a bit longer.....I don't wanna be the guinea pig for AT&T.
Does anyone know when att will flip the switch on the 4g data speeds??also will I need to update my sim card. Im using my atrix with my micro sim I pulled from iphone4.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I still haven't seen anywhere where as specific date is listed.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/25/atandt-says-atrix-4g-inspire-4g-will-have-hsupa-enabled-in-april/
"In April" pretty vauge.
As far as sim card, I'd think Iphone 4 era card would be current enough to utilize current network speeds
Its only hsupa.....we are not getting hspa+ ( att version of 4g).
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Smallsmx3 said:
Its only hsupa.....we are not getting hspa+ ( att version of 4g).
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Wait... are you saying we don't get hsdap??? please state your source
I think there is some mix up of terms in this thread:
HSPA describes both HSDPA and HSUPA (D for download, U for upload). HSPA is what is active now (well, in terms of backhaul). HSPA is somewhat limited on our phones because HSUPA is not turned on
the "faster" variant of HSPA is HSPA+. HSPA+ operates with a greater backhaul to deliver faster speeds. This backhaul is what AT&T is currently working on.
to the OP, there is no formal date on when "4G" will be turned on. Sites are currently getting worked on all over the US currently. Here in Colorado (and Denver), AT&T is doing the backhaul work and adding new towers as we speak.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/191649/75/ATT-starts-100-million-upgrade-in-Colorado-
and as far as I know, the sim card that came with the Atrix will be fine for HSPA+ "4G". LTE "4G" may require a different sim card, but that is a ways down the road.
(or I could have my terms mixed up. If I misspoke in this post, please correct me. thanks)
irus said:
Wait... are you saying we don't get hsdap??? please state your source
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We already have hsdpa. No source needed
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
co.ag.2005 said:
I think there is some mix up of terms in this thread:
HSPA describes both HSDPA and HSUPA (D for download, U for upload). HSPA is what is active now (well, in terms of backhaul). HSPA is somewhat limited on our phones because HSUPA is not turned on
the "faster" variant of HSPA is HSPA+. HSPA+ operates with a greater backhaul to deliver faster speeds. This backhaul is what AT&T is currently working on.
to the OP, there is no formal date on when "4G" will be turned on. Sites are currently getting worked on all over the US currently. Here in Colorado (and Denver), AT&T is doing the backhaul work and adding new towers as we speak.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/191649/75/ATT-starts-100-million-upgrade-in-Colorado-
and as far as I know, the sim card that came with the Atrix will be fine for HSPA+ "4G". LTE "4G" may require a different sim card, but that is a ways down the road.
(or I could have my terms mixed up. If I misspoke in this post, please correct me. thanks)
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HSPA is built on the 3G network...............hence it is NOT 4G!
It is a 3G technology.
I just read on AT&T's website that they consider 6Mb/s to be their 4G.
This means that our 4G devices will never be any faster than the iPhone 4 which supports up to 7.2Mb/s.
When I bought my Atrix I was under the assumption that they would eventually make use of the HSPA+ that the phone supports.
If the iPhone 4 is a 3G device then so is the Atrix.
Dear AT&T,
Thanks for lying and using trickery to attract customers. You suck.
PS hurry up and at least enable HSUPA
For all those that don't know, when they enable HSUPA this will not speed up our download connection speed, only the upload. So don't expect much.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Link to where they say its 6? I thought it was 14 or so. Forgive me if I don't believe its only 6
Nvm. Just read it. Normal 3G is 7.2. Not HSPA+. HSPA+ has a maximum of 14mbps. 3g is 7.2
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I was on the phone with AT&T Business today about other issues, and asked about the "4G".
The rep seemed very well informed, told me no towers in my area have dates assigned to them for upgrade to 4G yet, and that I still have some which are not even 3G capable. She also told me they are trying to get their "4G" to everyone by the end of the year, and the download speed is 20mbps. This was a lengthy conversation, much more involved than this short description, but it was very interesting to talk to a rep who actually new technical stuff.
Also read somewhere that enabling HSUPA will decrease latency which will also increase download speed. Not sure about that, though.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
PixoNova said:
Also read somewhere that enabling HSUPA will decrease latency which will also increase download speed. Not sure about that, though.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
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i read that also but cant put on finger on where it was
brian2220 said:
i read that also but cant put on finger on where it was
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSUPA
We'll get category 6 HSUPA. even says HSUPA will decrease latency. Which means we'll be seeing i4 or even higher speeds.
OP. Overreact much? Especially over misinformation.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-...locale=&_dyncharset=UTF-8&solutionId=KB115947
This says in the 'Just how fast is AT&T 4G' faq "AT&T is seeing network speeds up to approximately 6Mbps"
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
What the network is capable of delivering and the maximum speed the device supports are two different things. Both the Inspire and the Atrix have radios that can pull up to 14.4 Mbps if the network is able to provide it.
plvaulter06 said:
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-...locale=&_dyncharset=UTF-8&solutionId=KB115947
This says in the 'Just how fast is AT&T 4G' faq "AT&T is seeing network speeds up to approximately 6Mbps"
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
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THe key word in that statement is "approximately" 6mpbs, it is just marketing. You will barely ever see the full speeds of "4g" due to the physics of networks.
plvaulter06 said:
This means that our 4G devices will never be any faster than the iPhone 4 which supports up to 7.2Mb/s.
Ha! Iphone 4? The 3gs is capable of 7.2. So all we got was a 3g phone with dual core that is locked down by att and moto. If I could pull 6 mbs on a regular I would be really happy with that. I avg about 700 kbps.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
like sifon said... and i wouldn't even exactly call it a "marketing" term. It's just going the logical route. They say approximately 6Mbps.... because if they say something like "You will expect to see 10Mbps".... then imagine how many calls they're going to get from people complaining cause they're ONLY getting 6Mbps. And i don't even see why people are complaining about THAT! 6Mbps? on a PHONE?!? Just a few years ago, 5Mbps was the fastest broadband internet connection via cable in my area. 6Mbps is probably still faster than a lot of broadband connections here in the US (except for that one city that's going to be getting Google's gigabit fiber optic internet connection.... lucky f*ckers).
And yes... when they enable HSUPA, we will probably (see? if i said "will" here, me and anyone quoting me would probably get flamed like crazy if it didn't come to pass) see a lot lower latencies and higher download speeds than we currently are. As we all know, internet connections are a two way thing. If you can't get information TO the servers, you won't get it FROM them either.
I have 4g download speed in my neighborhood. (luck me! ) I pull 4 on average, and 5 rarely. 6 is a marketing speed. You will never see 6.
what are your upload speeds?
elementaldragon said:
what are your upload speeds?
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They're obviously .33 still. HSUPA isn't enabled on our phones yet. Not until we get that HSUPA update.
Also, can anyone confirm whether it's 14 Mbps, or 20/22? I keep seeing different numbers tossed around, and I can't be sure anymore.
my phone says H+ on it and 5 bars yet download speed says 500-600 kbps and upload is right around 100. on my wifi at home i have clearwire and i get 3 megs down 1 meg up and my phone says it gets the same 3md/1mu when its hooked up to wifi. do i neeg to go get a different sim card for my atrix? ATT told me i dont need one because the 4G network wont be out for another 6 months to a year (which is misinformation, we have it in seattle AFAIK). but even w/ 3G i should be pulling A LOT faster than that right?
i can pull 5.5 with a captivate
justdrew said:
i can pull 5.5 with a captivate
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i can pull that down and more with my atrix whats ur point ?
Think the point is that with a 4G phone, if you're in a 4G area, you WOULD be pulling a lot more.... but due to not having fast uploads, download speeds are crippled.
the problem here is that with AT&T's 'enhanced back-haul program' they are only planning on buying some additional bandwidth and speed (raising it to 6Mbps) for each tower's individual internet connection. So even if the tower is using HSPA+ to transmit data to our phones, it is only going to be as fast as the internet connection that the tower has.
Its like using a really nice Wireless router, and wireless card. While it is nice, it doesn't make your connection speed any faster than an older model of router and card that could already handle your internet connection.
I really hope I'm wrong, but anyone who tells you that your Atrix is going to have a 20Mbps mobile data connection from AT&T is just blowing smoke up your @$$.
Interesting facts:
128 HSPA+ network in 65 countries including:
95 HSPA+ networks offering peak rates of 21 Mbps
11 HSPA+ networks offering peak rates of 28 Mbps
22 HSPA+ networks offering peak rates of 42 Mbps
Here is something very interesting for the future:
Radio over Fiber (RoF) Communication System - supposedly has d/l rate of 20Gb/s and is equal to the speed of optic fiber. Could be available in 10 years to the public.
I called AT&T today to ask about the HSUPA update. (Dial 611) And after being put on hold a few times, they said that they would have a manager call me back. Around 8:30, I got a voicemail (no call) from the manager, but when I returned her phone call, I spoke with a woman who offered me a $25 courtesy credit. I pressed her on the update and she swore up and down that it would be released in April, although she declined to give me that in writing. While AT&T has very little credibility with me, I wasn't too proud to accept $25. I recommend making the call.
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
I also asked about unlock code, rep said, officially att will provice unlock code in dec 11
sam_t610 said:
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Smallsmx3 said:
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
wirednix said:
How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
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Click to collapse
I think he is referring to the fact that the update will simply increase upload speeds, while dl speed will remain unchanged, which does not have a huge impact on normal use...unless you are seeding torrents via your cell data plan I suppose.
sam_t610 said:
I also asked about unlock code, rep said, officially att will provice unlock code in dec 11
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Click to collapse
Just wondering since I've never been to the states and I don't know about AT&T's history and policies.
Does that mean AT&T and Motorola has a kind of an agreement that unlock codes will not be given to users until a certain time passes? for exclusivity I mean.
I'm asking that because I wondered if the locked bootloader is also within the security package Motorola has provided to AT&T and maybe after that date Motorola can officially release the code.
Smallsmx3 said:
sam_t610 said:
I also called att and asked about hsupa update (so called 4g speed). Thought I was not offered any credit, i was told that there is going to be an update this month.
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people....i cant wait till after the update for hsupa and everyone is complaining that they dont notice a difference in data speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure he knows that its not actually 4g, or he wouldnt have said "so called 4g" but thats what att calls it, so get off your high horse and read before you flame someone.
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wirednix said:
How would we not notice a difference in data speeds after HSUPA? The update will enable it on the phone. Speeds will increase. Period.
Care to explain?
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Honestly the change to your upload is not super notable unless you are sending mms. I have hsupa on this inspire and thats about the only time I see a difference.
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daveop said:
Honestly the change to your upload is not super notable unless you are sending mms. I have hsupa on this inspire and thats about the only time I see a difference.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
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Isn't HSUPA still disabled on the Inspire?
decoyd said:
Isn't HSUPA still disabled on the Inspire?
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Easily remedied on the inspire.
Smallsmx3 said:
Hsupa does not mean 4g speeds! Do some research people...
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This is by no means a defense of AT&T's rather liberal definition of "4G," but if you want some research, this is what I came across while I was on hold. So if you're interested in having more than vague internet rumors to support your claims that AT&T isn't living up to its end of the bargin, here you go:
4G has no official definition.
ITU on 4G: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx
4G Americas on HSPA:
http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page§ionid=247
I think the above link is actually quite damning of AT&T's actions with respect to disabling HSUPA on the Atrix. The group defines an HSPA network as one that is using both HSDPA and HSUPA (aka E-DCH) simultaneously. While 4G Americas is not a standards organization, they are a powerful telecom industry lobbying organization of which AT&T is an influential member. (see http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page§ionid=160)
3GPP on HSPA+:
http://www.3gpp.org/HSPA
While HSPA+ is mentioned on the above linked 3GPP webpage, there is little mention of HSPA+ by name in the technological specifications --the specifications deal mostly with the constituent technologies that make up HSPA+. When HSPA+ is mentioned, from what I've read, it's mentioned as Evolved HSPA or something similar. HSDPA is frequently mentioned as it has been in the pipleline since Release 5, and HSUPA is only mentioned by this moniker in a few places --it is most commonly referred to as E-DCH or Enhanced Uplink.
I would love to see an official 3GPP release that explicitly says "For a network to qualify as an HSPA+ network, ..." but I haven't found something that helpful. The standard is a bit of a disaster because: (1) it's HUGE with over a decade of revisions, and (2) a large number of standards have been withdrawn. Many technical specifications that have not been withdrawn will mention a technology that is not being defined and reference a withdrawn specification. I'm not sure what that means for the non-withdrawn specifications.
Here are a few interesting things that I was able to pull up from the 3GPP site. Unfortunately, the specifications use a lot of "shoulds" and "mays."
From 3GPP TR 25.999 version 7.1.0 Release 7 (HSPA evolution Technical Report) "Evolved HSPA should be able to operate as a packet-only network based on utilization of the high speed data channels only (HS-DSCH, E-DCH and associated channels)."
If this is stating that an HSPA+ network must use HSUPA and HSDPA, clearly AT&T fails. Even though HSUPA is running concurrently on the network, as Atrix users can't use it, claiming the network satisfies the HSUPA requirement would be a little like your cable company claiming they provide you HBO because your neighbor has it.
Again, from the same document: "Evolved HSPA protocol architecture shall have minimum impact on [user equipment] especially in terms of complexity, to allow for easy introduction."
I think a compelling argument can be made that the loss of HSUPA functionality on the Atrix has caused problems with the Atrix working on foreign data networks. The Atrix should be able to operate on foreign HSPA+networks that are frequency-compatible, but the burden of proof is on AT&T to show that their modifications don't interfere with basic usage of the Atrix on other HSPA+ networks.
From 3GPP TS 25.319 version 7.8.0 Release 7 (Enhanced Uplink Technical Report) "The Enhanced Uplink feature shall enable to achieve[sic] significant improvements in overall system performance when operated together with HSDPA. Emphasis shall be given on the potential impact the new feature may have on the downlink capacity."
By forcing the uplink to travel on a separate network, not only has AT&T demolished the uplink speeds, downlink performance has suffered, too. I've seen speculation that the latency issues can, in part, be attributed to the fact that the uplink and downlink packets are out of sync, causing a lot of unnecessary data retransmission; although, I can't cite anything definitive to prove this.
From 25.999 "[The UTRAN architecture] should reduce user plane latency to legacy (R5,6 & 7) & beyond R7 terminals" and "reduce control plane latency to beyond R7 terminals and, if low complexity cost effective means can be
found, also to legacy terminals."
While only considering latency in one direction, on one fragment of the network, AT&T may have met these requirements, but in aggregate, latency has jumped by an order of magnitude. In 25.999, there is a table of target ping latencies, with HSPA+ being listed at <50ms. AT&T's solution is nowhere near that level of performance.
There is a lot of information in 25.999 regarding the deployment of an HSPA+ network into an existing HSPA network, but without details of how AT&T has structured their upgrade, there is little one can glean from this. Although, it is clear that HSPA networks are considered as separate entities from HSPA+ networks. For example, from 25.999:
"The potential HSPA Architecture evolution will be defined independently from enhancements in the HSPA radio interface (both layer 1 and radio protocols). Thus, the traditional UTRAN interfaces (Iu, Iur and Iub) shall be enhanced in order to support the features included in the evolved HSPA radio interface. However this does not preclude the possibility to introduce new features in the HSPA radio interface, in case they are beneficial mainly to one of the
architectures."
Here they are specifying that the HSPA standard will be updated so that the interfaces (Iu, Iub, Iur) between the various sections of the network can be shared by HSPA and HSPA+ networks. But its clear that HSPA networks are distinct from HSPA+ networks.
You can find these documents here: http://www.3gpp.org/Specification-Numbering
You have to submit your email address to download the documents, but it is very easy.
Courtesy credit
I got 25 Bucks credit too!!!
Jeez some people are so hard up for $25 that they'd jump through hoops on the phone with AT&T?
BTW I notice HSUPA when I take a photo and e-mail it, which I do fairly often. With ~2mbps upload it is about 10 seconds per pic, with 5x slower speed well you wouldn't want to be sending more than one at almost a minute each.