Database Users

WinMo 7 predicitions

What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.

MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.

I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.

laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No and definitely no.

I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.

OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.

Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here

mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Click to collapse
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean lock-in?

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello

I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.

Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?

anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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Click to collapse
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!

laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4

@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?

Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!

@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.

freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...

Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...

freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).

Why did Skype cut off Windows Mobile?

I know this is a more generalized question, but anyone here got an idear why Skype has choose to disgard their Windows Mobile version of the Skype Software?
MS wanting to much money?

WP7S. . . .
Thats basically it.

~~Tito~~ said:
WP7S. . . .
Thats basically it.
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Click to collapse
yep...
but the cab install for current generation of winmo is still available through xda... it has been posted many times.

Microsoft must be doing something funky.. Adobe as well pulled out of WM6x development for WM7, I don't see why they wouldn't continue, it's not like there is a small 6.5 userbase.

Audio Oblivion said:
yep...
but the cab install for current generation of winmo is still available through xda... it has been posted many times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, thats still good. Maybe once they release a full WP7 ROM, we'd get all the new developments coming to WP7.

Euroman28 said:
I know this is a more generalized question, but anyone here got an idear why Skype has choose to disgard their Windows Mobile version of the Skype Software?
MS wanting to much money?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think, the problem was more likely the related to other issues, like the audio APIs. You know, like your conversation being broadcast over the speaker ? So Skype needed a specific hack for every device and Skype got blamed by users for OS related problems. That'll change with the standardizing of chassis designs and hardware for WM7.

ViperAMD said:
Microsoft must be doing something funky.. Adobe as well pulled out of WM6x development for WM7, I don't see why they wouldn't continue, it's not like there is a small 6.5 userbase.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what you compare it to. WM doesn't really have the following of android or iPhone so it wouldn't be beneficial for Adobe or Skype to continue pouring assets into a sinking platform. Wish Adobe would release the work they've done so that it wouldn't have been in vain.
I think the HD2 is going to be the last WM phone for a lot of us and not just because we want it to be, but because we're forced to leave it due to lack of support from developers.

Toss3 said:
I think the HD2 is going to be the last WM phone for a lot of us and not just because we want it to be, but because we're forced to leave it due to lack of support from developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM phone have better entertainment value than Android phones. For Instance most FOX Ent DVD's come with an official "digital copy" which can be transfered legally to your Windows Mobile phone, and not to an Android/Iphone.
And yes I know that you can buy movies in the Itunes store, but that only works in the US!
Many of the online music stores which sells downloads require you to have a phone which can play WMA files. Not many other devices than WM phones can do that.
I rest my case.

Viva WM 6.5.x!!!!

Viva windows mobile 6.5 with all its goodies and flaws!!
Who wants an upgrade to an OS with these specs.....???
* No system-wide file manager
* No videocalling
* Limited third-party apps availability
* No Bluetooth file transfers
* No USB mass storage mode
* No memory card support
* No multitasking
* No copy/paste
* Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
* No music player equalisers
* No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
* No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
* No DivX/XviD video support
* No internet tethering support
http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phone_7-review-521.php
WTF??!!
Come on people we r way past the stone age!!
talking about iphone os limitations!!
no thanx, i'll stick to 6.5 and ofcourse to my tremendous HD2!!

Thanks for bringing me back to Earth, I just saw a WP7 video and actually got hyped...
No sarcasm, thanks man.
EDIT: I just noticed the problem, the average consumer doesn't care about most of those things (eg. third-party apps, multi-tasking), they just want a phone that seems "fast" and looks flashy.

Key features:
•Premium mobile OS (high minimum hardware requirements)
•Clean, uncluttered interface with distinctive design language
•Easy and thumbable user interface
•Smooth operation with cool animations and transition effects
•A fresh start with no legacy support needed
•Backed up and developed by one of the largest software companies in the world
•Excellent MS Office mobile implementation
•Top-notch social integration
•Excellent cloud services integration (SkyDrive, Windows Live, Xbox Live)
•Wireless syncing of multimedia content
Seriously how many times would you have used those features that are missing..??
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness....
I'm sorry your arguments may hold valid against Android... but not windows phone Crapic, ie 6.5.X

When / if wp7 devices can dual boot 6.5.... I will cream my pants.....
Until then I'm not 100% on wp7
Sent From Your Bathroom Using Your Dirty Socks

nipuna said:
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Noob, welcome and thanks for sharing a few of the finer points of all your accumulated wisdom
There are plenty of useful free applications for WM 6.5, the touch performance on the HD2 is great and most users don't see windows under the bonnet of Sense.
Meanwhile, look at the hardware specs of the latest WP7 devices
LUCKILY Microsoft are already promising updates to its unfinished FUGLY OS.
..... sometime Q1 2011 !!
It's almost like Microsoft wasn't watching Apple lurch drunkenly into the market !
Apple has the lemming market to buy into their lamer phones Microsoft doesn't.
Someone at Microsoft has pulled the trigger before taking the gun out of their collective holster, neatly shooting themselves in the foot.

not my cup of tea at all im afraid. looks like i'll defo be jumping over to android in a years time. untill then im more that happy with my totally customizable hd2.......

donwhann said:
not my cup of tea at all im afraid. looks like i'll defo be jumping over to android in a years time. untill then im more that happy with my totally customisable hd2.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ive been running android for about 2 weeks and its getting old very quickly.......
might just sell my upgrade and buy a spare hd2...... then spend the rest on pies lol......

conantroutman said:
ive been running android for about 2 weeks and its getting old very quickly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is a very young OS and, like all babies, Android will grow quicker than you realise and will take a lot of looking after.
WP7 is only now having a difficult birth after an overly long and pointlessly complicated gestation.

compact_bijou said:
Android is a very young OS and, like all babies, Android will grow quicker than you realise and will take a lot of looking after.
WP7 is only now having a difficult birth after an overly long and pointlessly complicated gestation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like that analogy....
works for me because I hate kids lol......
personally I think id rather be around for the birth of a newborn than adopt a toddler...... if you see what I mean
you are right about android though I guess.....

conantroutman said:
I like that analogy....
works for me because I hate kids lol......
personally I think id rather be around for the birth of a newborn than adopt a toddler...... if you see what I mean
you are right about android though I guess.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android at 2.2 is, effectively, still in beta.
To elaborate on the baby analogy, WP7 is like taking a baby home from the hospital today, taking it back in January
to have the arms fitted, in March to have the legs fitted and then (probably) going back every first Tuesday in the
month to have it patched ffs ! - just like most other Windows software
When device hardware is 1.5 Ghz - dual core - and 32/64GB internal / 64/128 GB external is standard, then I'll call upgrade.
Everything else on the new devices is pretty much already here on the HD2.

WP7 sucks big time!!!
Another thing you all didn't mention, no synchronization with Outlook with your contacts and your agenda! Yes, it has Office Mobile, but no synchronization with Outlook on your desktop PC! WTF?! This is a MAJOR drawback, especially for the business market.
No people, this is like going back to the stone age. Sorry Microsoft, you spoiled a good thing, instead of evolving you into something better, you made a Neanderthal OS system compared to your Homo Sapien WM 6.5.
I hope for HTC that they let Microsoft foot the bill for putting so much restrictions on their hardware in order to use their OS. Like, what is a phone without expandable memory??!
I will be keeping my HD2 for the time-being and I know you guys here on XDA will keep the ROM's coming for it. And besides, I NEED my navigation! Can't do without it, and as long as no third-party apps are available for WP7, I won't be switching!
I agree with the part that Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with this OS, it's doomed from the beginning. iPhone and Android have evolved much further and nobody is looking for a restricted copy of any of these, that's what was nice with WM, totally customizable and flexible the way WE wanted it.
One bit of advice to Microsoft: Stick to PC's and leave the Phone OS market behind.

nipuna said:
Key features:
(...)
Seriously how many times would you have used those features that are missing..??
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness....
I'm sorry your arguments may hold valid against Android... but not windows phone Crapic, ie 6.5.X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, the "main disadvantages" list has 14 entries.
10 of those (1,4,5,6,7,8,10,12,13,14) would directly affect my daily life, would i exchange my hd2 for a hd7. i think most people would agree if i said that for me, wp7 SUCKS A**. (first time ever to use bold letters)

compact_bijou said:
When device hardware is 1.5 Ghz - dual core - and 32/64GB internal / 64/128 GB external is standard, then I'll call upgrade.
Everything else on the new devices is pretty much already here on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
word (+ some more characters so i'm allowed to post this reply)

They gotta fix these
* No Bluetooth file transfers<- again basic 6.X feature
* No USB mass storage mode<- yeah this is a bummer
* No memory card support <-proabably due to the unified memory space presented to the user
* No multitasking <- I think they are going to reverse this decision
* No copy/paste <-this should have been in there from the start as there is no excuse that MS can come up with as to why this most basic of windows features is missing
MS may be leaving this up to individual carriers to add
* No internet tethering support
hopefully someone will add this
* No music player equalisers
not sure I care for this slowing down my phone, but again they can fix this with an update once they streamline it (silverlight) and Adobe is gonna have to do the flash thing and we all know how slow those guys are
* No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
MS will fix this especially now that Bing is getting popular
* No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
We are going to have to wait until someone supplies a codec and then this problem will be resolved
* No DivX/XviD video support

Come on .. this is the same as with any OS. First version can do basically nothing. All these features without doubt will be there in two years. Except maybe not. I think WP7 will not live that long. I see totally no reason why would anyone want it, especially at this state. They don't even plan to offer anything different then iPhone or Android.
I even HOPE that WP7 will die in world in which Palm's WebOS has real troubles.
For me, I'm going for Desire HD or something like that. 4" screen Android without keyboard.

Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again? I think that might account for some of the positive reviews.
I can't afford to move to Phone 7.

DrATty said:
Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again? I think that might account for some of the positive reviews.
I can't afford to move to Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would depend on developers. Some do provide applications for more platforms and you only need to pay once. But the, some other developers don't do that. And then again with some applications you will have to go to different developer to get the same functionality. So yeah, most of your money will be wasted, if not all.

Dr.Sid said:
That would depend on developers. Some do provide applications for more platforms and you only need to pay once. But the, some other developers don't do that. And then again with some applications you will have to go to different developer to get the same functionality. So yeah, most of your money will be wasted, if not all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought as much. It's quite a bitter pill to swallow for someone who's been loyal over the years.
It's becoming a problem in other areas too. Microsoft isn't supporting some of its newer functionality in XP. I can't afford to move everything to 7 just yet (I jumped Vista.) The file format of several of my desktop applications has changed recently meaning an upgrade is needed to remain compatibility with colleagues. I don't know how Phone 7 works with Outlook yet but I can see £ signs already. Software has always had a finite life but it seems to me that this life is getting shorter. Actually, WM has lasted in its current form for far longer than most; that's been a problem for it for a while now.
What I've seen of Phone 7 so far suggests that it's an OS in the vein of iOS4. It works very well but doesn't encourage experimentation. I like WM because I've always been able to hack the OS into working how I want it too. Perhaps the average user doesn't add much in the way of 3rd-party applications; that's left to corporate users and they have the money. Big changes like this aren't very enthusiast-friendly.

wergor said:
ok, the "main disadvantages" list has 14 entries.
10 of those (1,4,5,6,7,8,10,12,13,14) would directly affect my daily life, would i exchange my hd2 for a hd7. i think most people would agree if i said that for me, wp7 SUCKS A**. (first time ever to use bold letters)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, these functions I have become dependent upon and I will be sticking with 6.5 until I can no longer get a phone that supports it.
At that time, I will start carrying a couple of cans with string between them, have a very large wallet with all my pics, and a brief case with all of my documents, and a portable tv with all of my funny videos on it.
That WP7 looks no better than the Iphone with some fancy dynamic social network updates.
No Thanks!
Jeff
I have spoken...

DrATty said:
Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure. Probably.
You will be able to do something with your Xbox from your phone and update what you've done to your Zune on FacePalm or something ?

[Q] [DEBATE] Why is MS issuing the activation codes?

Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?

I think option 1.

would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.

aenedor said:
I think option 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.

homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).

I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.

Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)

I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.

1 and 2, please not 3.

It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.

I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?

Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.

ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.

1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3

homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ

Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?

TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ

A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.

The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.

ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...

article: Microsoft responds to HTC HD2 Windows Phone 7 ROMs

A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....

People lets make some noise on there....

Mouhahahahahahahaha
EDIT: BTW, When I called for the Activation. They gave it to me (but I had already used the one provided here). Then they called me again today just to make sure everything is operating smoothly. I love their Customer service

and this is how the communtiy responded when MS said no!!! the HD2 has too many buttons.

Microsoft would be crazy not to support WP7 on HD2. Of course they encourage it now..!!

Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...

They learn from it as well!!

“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....

geddeeee said:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason is there is no need to actively fight the activation cracking. It became a battle between the people who want to crack will crack no matter what. So what they did was make it as inconvenient as possible. Even when Windows 7 was cracked, unforseen checks caused the OS to relock itself and etc. More cracks had to be made to bypass the checks that werent seen.
With Windows phone, It's very likely they they don't care as long as people are using it since you can't exactly go out and buy windows phone 7 and install it like you can with the desktop OS. Plus, who knows how much they charge the phone manufacturers if anything.
The chances are, they either don't charge anything or charge very little and expect to make up for it when people buy content from the marketplace.
The phone itself was specifically designed with the pre-release specs for WP7 and with the HD7 was released and was basically the same, it was known then that eventually someone would get WP7 working on the HD2. Microsoft probably realized it and at this point they are going to just not support anyone using the HD2 as a WP7 device which is perfectly reasonable. The HD2 has some bugs to iron out for WP7 and why should Microsoft have to be responsible for supporting it.
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.

Hmmmm, the link at the top has had many HD2 WP7 users reply and left their view. Be careful because to leave your own comment they ask for an email. Make sure it isnt the email you used to activate WP7.
Putting that aside it is nice to see that Microsoft are not trying to slam the doors shut. Lets see what the updates bring and then see if they mean what they say.

Hilarity ensues!
ChrisTran206 said:
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, the clueless will call regardless...
Honestly though, I didn't know what to think regarding MS's response. I guess I assumed they would shut it down asap. Stunning revelation for me actually and I have new found respect for them in embracing insteading of shunning the enevitable.

maybe MS did add the HD2 to the compatability list a long time ago, but forgot that it was still there, so the customer service just did the right thing.

DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel

DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DennisCSUF said:
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, no #%$
I thought his comparison with the 360 was a little off. And M$'s response on the Kinect hack was don't mess with it, until they backtracked and said they made it that way all along.
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...

they ONLY reason they are not supplying wp7 for HD 2 is becuz of too many button on our HD 2.. they are stupid.. omg =.=

sooner or later they will put an end to this, and sooner or later hackers will find a way to get pass it.

It comes down to this. its all business. MS wanted a new phone to release its new OS so they got the HD7. who in their right mind in the business world would want to spend millions on a new OS and make it work on past devices before any new devices would come out? and if they make it compatible with hd2, then why not some other windows 6.5 phones? see the chain they'd have to deal with here?
Now as far as their kindness towards the crackers of wp7, that's the only way they could react. if they sound like arse's, ppl would rebel and look down at ms like they do at apple. They aren't going to release some form of fix for the crack right away, so no point in getting mad about it. in my eyes they are behind the scenes saying, have your fun..we'll block it again eventually so you have to crack it again. Meanwhile, they are saving their face, time and money to try to develop a quick fix, and letting people all get drawn into the new OS. Its brilliant. just like our developers here at XDA!

cx1 said:
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Tom Warren(winrumors) has got his story wrong!
"Some users have contacted Microsoft’s official support lines requesting codes after falsely claiming their device is a HTC HD7. Microsoft has been issuing codes to allow the devices to access Windows Live services."
I never claimed to microsoft that I had a HD7, I was asked why I needed a code. I told them it was for Windows Phone 7, not a HD7. They gave me the code for my WP7 what I told them, so i have not given them false info.
So Tony get your facts right.
Russ

Whither the Upgrade
nzxtneo said:
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. We shall all see what our efforts and desires bring us when the next release of WP7 comes out.
We'll all get the upgrade cleanly, OTA and we'll be smiling.
The upgrade will lock (or maybe even brick) our phones at which point all the small-minded people will scream at M$ for ruining their phones, which they had already ruined by running WP7 on a non-supported phone.
Or the upgrade won't work on our phones; we'll all be on the current version. Still functional but now it's an old OS (like 6.5). And we'll be asking for new ROMs.
And hey, if it's the first item we'll get copy/paste.

LOL. If it's all about copy/paste then we should "upgrade" back to WM 6.5...It has this functionality, as well as multitasking
I'm personally staying for a while with WP7...I like "The Harvest" too much