Database Users

Question about AOSP

I'm kinda confused by this post here:
akirah said:
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Launcher is slow with scrolling, browser is multitouch with double tap (I really like it, and can't wait for AOSP eclair!).
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Is there a separate fork that I don't know about with Android? The source code was already released at that time of posting, yet akirah still states that he is waiting for the release of AOSP eclair. So I'm confused.
What I thought by this post was that there is Android supported just by Google, and then there is AOSP, which anyone can edit and then slap on their phones.
Edit: I felt like I should of done some more research and searched more thoroughly, so I did and came back to delete this thread, and didn't have the option to delete it, so I'm gonna ask for some more additional clarification.
Why is it so difficult to get everything working on different phones? Why if one puts 2.0 on a phone such as the G1 or MyTouch it's sluggish? Yeah there are different hardware that needs to be supported, but how difficult can it be to get the different radios, wifi and sound working? Why do we have to wait so long for HTC to come out with a 2.0 image?
Thanks

allholy1 said:
I'm kinda confused by this post here:
Is there a separate fork that I don't know about with Android? The source code was already released at that time of posting, yet akirah still states that he is waiting for the release of AOSP eclair. So I'm confused.
What I thought by this post was that there is Android supported just by Google, and then there is AOSP, which anyone can edit and then slap on their phones.
Edit: I felt like I should of done some more research and searched more thoroughly, so I did and came back to delete this thread, and didn't have the option to delete it, so I'm gonna ask for some more additional clarification.
Why is it so difficult to get everything working on different phones? Why if one puts 2.0 on a phone such as the G1 or MyTouch it's sluggish? Yeah there are different hardware that needs to be supported, but how difficult can it be to get the different radios, wifi and sound working? Why do we have to wait so long for HTC to come out with a 2.0 image?
Thanks
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That thread was posted on the 27th of October (and edited on the 28th). The 2.0 source was only released a week ago, if that. That ROM was ported from the emulator images. 2.0 requires new drives for the Qualcomm chipset in the Dream, Magic, Hero and Tatoo, which they have yet to release to us. Imagine running your computer without drivers for essential components, even it had great specs everything would run like crap, that's essentially what's going on here.

new rom

Are we going to see any new roms for the aria or no...
Sent from my HTC Liberty using XDA App

what do you mean by new roms?

We have 4 well made roms already, stock 2.1, liberated 2.1, liberated 2.2, and cm6. If you want to re-roll the stock rom 100 different ways that are all nearly exactly the same like some other phones, go right ahead.

I look forward to the new rom you are going to develop and can't wait to try it out!
g4ess said:
Are we going to see any new roms for the aria or no...
Sent from my HTC Liberty using XDA App
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Language edit

It really doesnt get any better than what we already have available! In this case quality is far superior to quantity. And less confusion this way as well having less of the same thing being re-made.

thanks to all the people that made since i appricate it.. to the other fools that just wanted to come here just to type cause u are bored kick rock u lames.. i asked the question 1 maybe i am not a phone geek like u and 2 i am trying to learn.. i wasnt being smart...

It's a legit question.
People coming from other phones (WM especially) might expect 2 dozen different ROMs. The fact is, we have 4 great base ROMs, and Android's ability to customize them however you want, without needing a ton of expertise. We don't have to wait around for a select few people to cook up new updates for us.
Although, I really wouldn't be opposed to some people creating some dedicated theme ROMs.

Moved to general as this is not development.

Thats what i meant a fully theme rom.. i had a mytouch n windows mobile in the pass n i no people made more themed n customizable roms.. thank u guys..
posted via htc aria xda app..

As far as roms go - i dont think we need any more base roms - but maybe some decent themes for the Aria.

I like how polished (but few) options we have for aria. If you've ever wandered over to Nexus One development forum you will see rom overload. How would I even know where to start? With the aria it's simple, yet we have very polished options. Got to give props to attn1.

G2/ DZ forum merge...? *scratch this*

*edit* Feel free to delete this thread admins. I found this has already been addressed in the announcment thread.
Original post:
"So I noticed that G2 and Desire Z forums have been merged due to the fact that they are practically identical other that the radio stuff... but why are a bunch of Desire HD threads popping up here? That phone isn't really too similar.. are these mistakes or has the HD forum been merged aswell?"
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Its a stupid idea to merge these, really. When people start bricking phones left and right... I'm not helping anyone. And usually, its people like me and the other senior members who have to deal with this crap and not the mods... Just because a few foolish people (with good intentions) who have no idea what's going on want this, it doesn't mean its a good idea. One major complaint was that the desire z isn't as active... well, tough ****! How is that OUR problem?! Just because our brothers on the other side of the pond are having trouble attracting development/theming isn't our problem. They need to jump in head first and do their own work if its lacking... I don't care about that really but this is just gonna create total confusion and many $500 paperweights, lol!

How is it going to create paperweights ? The main source of semi-bricking that I've seen is running Visionary, something that I try and steer people away from.
The same custom ROMs can be used on both phones.
Engineering hboot doesn't need to be applied any more, and shouldn't be in any guides aimed at newcomers.
I think you're misunderstanding the lack of difference between the two phones. You still mention a "framework" difference but I don't know what you mean unless you mean the Sense framework (which is purely a ROM issue and nothing to do with hardware).
Thanks for your kind welcoming words towards DZ owners though

steviewevie said:
How is it going to create paperweights ? The main source of semi-bricking that I've seen is running Visionary, something that I try and steer people away from.
The same custom ROMs can be used on both phones.
Engineering hboot doesn't need to be applied any more, and shouldn't be in any guides aimed at newcomers.
I think you're misunderstanding the lack of difference between the two phones. You still mention a "framework" difference but I don't know what you mean unless you mean the Sense framework (which is purely a ROM issue and nothing to do with hardware).
Thanks for your kind welcoming words towards DZ owners though
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Radios/hboots will still be flashed and can cause a bricked device. With frameworks... a lot of soft bricks which newbies will think its a real brick but whatever... just complicates things, that's all. Take for example, htc magic forums... complete mess because of the 32a/32b boards being in the same dev section. Brick city over there, lol! This is what we need... same subforum section with Desire z/G2/same general/same q&a/same accessories/different dev. sec/same theme. Perfect example is the htc wizard subforum, seperate board sections. Believe it or not the G2 and Desire Z have extremely similiar boards but they are different. Enough to cause problems. Wait and see... and I understand that you feel personally attacked because you were a big advocate of the merge but its nothing personal. I've been around here long enough to see a bad idea executed and the problems that arise. And no I have nothing against my desire z brothers... I had just heard someone meantion about development issues in your previous dev forum and that was their only reason for wanting a merge. That kind of pissed my off for some reason and just sounds lazy. I'm not judging everyone from the desire z subforum for that one, lone comment but it just added fuel to the fire, so to speak... I think the merge isn't bad but we need two seperate dev sections, imo. That's all...

It's ok, I don't feel personally attacked
I'd like to know what you feel is the exact difference in the boards between the two phones though ?
The only hardware difference that I'm aware of is different physical keyboard layouts (a non-issue, since that's the same issue on most phones, dealt with by software). And different radio bands set in hardware (again, the same issues on most phones, not a reason to split forums, we're not talking about GSM vs CDMA here).
How come the same custom ROMs can be used on both phones if there's such a difference ?
The guides to rooting/S-OFF now don't include instructions to flash eng hboots. And the Wiki makes it pretty clear that it's unnecessary, and lists the different ones for the two different phones if people really want to try it. I doubt many people will be looking at the Wiki when they root/S-OFF though.
We actually don't have any evidence that flashing radios from one to the other is a problem. I posted up in another thread that we really need this to be verified. I actually suspect it will work fine (e.g. the version numbering is in the same sequence across both phones).

steviewevie said:
It's ok, I don't feel personally attacked
I'd like to know what you feel is the exact difference in the boards between the two phones though ?
The only hardware difference that I'm aware of is different physical keyboard layouts (a non-issue, since that's the same issue on most phones, dealt with by software). And different radio bands set in hardware (again, the same issues on most phones, not a reason to split forums, we're not talking about GSM vs CDMA here).
How come the same custom ROMs can be used on both phones if there's such a difference ?
The guides to rooting/S-OFF now don't include instructions to flash eng hboots. And the Wiki makes it pretty clear that it's unnecessary, and lists the different ones for the two different phones if people really want to try it. I doubt many people will be looking at the Wiki when they root/S-OFF though.
We actually don't have any evidence that flashing radios from one to the other is a problem. I posted up in another thread that we really need this to be verified. I actually suspect it will work fine (e.g. the version numbering is in the same sequence across both phones).
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You might be correct... I'm just going from past experiences. We can confirm with some version numbers. But I guess time will tell. I do hope things work out. Its just nice to have less headaches though... with s off things can get dangerous, complete bricks. I've bricked a few phones as a former cell tech and its never fun. I even bricked my wife's phone back in the day, lol! But... that's how things go sometimes, you live and learn. I just don't want to see new folks bricking phones with complete s off... I know its gonna happen but we don't have enough proof yet that things are completely safe as far different bootloaders go. I think we should have been 100% certain that cross flashing radios is safe.. etc before the merge. Maybe I missed something and everything has been tested before hand?

I'm not going to enter into G2 and DZ merging, I don't know well enough how similar they are. Accessories for one would definitely work with the other though, right?
The point asked about in the original post, WHY ON EARTH ARE DESIRE HD THREADS BEING MOVED OVER HERE??!?!?!
We're talking about cases, batteries, screen protectors... these are nothing like the G2 versions. Take a look -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=764
Half the threads have been moved! Why?!?!?!

Before the G2 and the Z came out I had heard on good authority that the same radio's could be flashed on either device, leaving the only real difference being the partition sizes which is infact a non-issue.
Although I know of no-one who can confirm or deny the radio point since release

AndyCr15 said:
The point asked about in the original post, WHY ON EARTH ARE DESIRE HD THREADS BEING MOVED OVER HERE??!?!?!
We're talking about cases, batteries, screen protectors... these are nothing like the G2 versions. Take a look -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=764
Half the threads have been moved! Why?!?!?!
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Click to collapse
Yeah, something went wrong there. But I think most of that has been sorted out now.
If you see any DHD threads that are still in the wrong place, then please PM the mods about it.

There's loads! Click the link. Half the threads are moved!
I can see 11 on page 1 alone. I'm not listing them all for a mod. This is the second time the Desire HD forum has been messed up...

Well, who wants to be the test subject and flash the other's radio? I would but I'm a broke college student and can't afford a replacement lol.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

AbsolutZeroGI said:
Well, who wants to be the test subject and flash the other's radio? I would but I'm a broke college student and can't afford a replacement lol.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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lol, there is always someone willing to try it, but not me, I can't afford a replacement phone at the moment.

AbsolutZeroGI said:
Well, who wants to be the test subject and flash the other's radio? I would but I'm a broke college student and can't afford a replacement lol.
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I've made a couple of posts up in the dev threads on this. Specifically, we have what appears to be a significantly newer radio version (just based on the numbers being higher numerically, not that scientific I know lol) for the DZ Egypt ROM.
Now *if* we could verify this is fine for the G2, it may benefit a lot of G2 owners to be able to try it out. DZ owners can try it too though.
I was asking in those threads if someone who's a bit of a radio expert could perhaps try it (e.g. those involved with writing gfree to unlock our radios).
DO NOT TRY THIS YET UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING
(sorry for shouting )

By the way guys, remember the G2 and DZ are both codenamed "Vision" by HTC.
So we can always start referring to "Vision" in threads if we're talking about issues which will affect both phones (i.e. not specific to stock ROMs).

[Q] Why can't we compile our own 2.2 OS?

Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946

There is currently work being done by jt, birdman, and the other skew of developers trying to develop a working AOSP version of 2.2/2.3. The biggest struggle that they have encountered was the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) binaries. Samsung produced some bogus complex proprietary binaries with no properly working source code. Because this phone is CDMA and not GSM, we can't simply use galaxy s files.
Anyways, the point is that there is work being done to bring it to our phone. They have a working AOSP 2.1 that is currently in alpha stage. Jt basically built his own RIL for this phone to get it working.
If this RIL works, we may end up with 2.3 sooner than later.

eulipion2 said:
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously have not searched hard enough, as this has been discussed in many places. I would suggest you start by searching this forum (edit: or seeing the links and posts above).
I will say, however, that recent achievements by (edit: the developers mentioned above) have made your suggestion quite possible. If you want to get a taste of what is to come, see the aosp alpha sticky located in the development section. The rom still has bugs, but it is a giant step forward for the Fascinate.
Sent from my Galaxy-S Fascinate

Florynce said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
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Click to collapse
^^^^^
10char

I must add/point out that the work these guys are doing could easily pave the way for Cyanogenmod- and other well-featured roms to be compiled/ported and used on Fascinate as well.

I've read the above links, but they didn't really quite answer my question. I guess I'm wondering why a Linux-based OS isn't acting/being treated like a Linux-based OS.
Let's say I go out and buy a new computer today. I want to put Linux on it. I get the machine home, download my distro of choice and make an install cd. As I'm installing, I configure the installation either for my specific hardware or I can use a generic profile if my hardware isn't listed.
Now say a new version of the Linux kernel comes out. I can upgrade without having to wait for a version for my hardware. Or if I install MyDistro v1 when I get my machine, and MyDistro v2 comes out the next day, I don't have to wait for someone to develop a version to work with my hardware.
So my question is more of a why can't we upgrade our distro like other Linux variants? Is it because there's no generic replacement for the Samsung RIL? If I were to download the source and do a generic build, or even a specific one, I wouldn't be able to install it because...?
Sorry to be a pain, but I genuinely have no clue. Again, thank you for the insight!

2.2 will boot on the I500 just nothing works. If you would like to help http://opensource.samsung.com/
The source code can be found there. Please feel free to help the development along.
I suggest you read through the reply's to your question and pay special note to those bringing up the RIL as that seems to be the biggest hurdle right now.

I think maybe the answer you are looking for is that it is possible to do it, it's just extremely difficult because Samsung's open source is very shoddy and isn't based on AOS, which is what is used for most other phones.
Since the developers don't have a build that works, they have to work from the ground up with AOS and get every last feature on the fascinate working without using Samsung's code (TouchWiz, widgets, etc).
The links they gave you explain most of it but you have to sift through the posts. There is a dev named jt (amongst others) who is working on a ROM that is upgradable based on AOSP and it looks very promising.
edit: It's also worth noting that when I say "not based on AOS" I mean that it is proprietary software used by Samsung-only phones and is not coded by Google. It still, of course, is based on Android OS. It would be akin to a ROM coded by Samsung for their phones rather than generic ROMs that could be downloaded by other phones.

Perfect, thanks!

Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

For clarification.... so I can wrap my brain around this. Is this situation kinda like having bought a new computer that's running an os, but has no installed device drivers and nowhere to download them from, so they have to be written by hand?
Edit: that last post came thru while I was writing this one, I think it basically answers my question...

So what the devs on here are trying to do is develop a "generic" profile that can work on our phone (as well as others?), creating a solid base to allow users to upgrade and change at-will without having to wait for official releases?
See, that's the part I'm having a hard time with. No generic profile built into the OS to use in the absence of a hardware specific one?
LoverBoyV said:
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On a sidenote, I bought a Dell netbook witih Ubuntu. Didn't waste time with Ubuntu, but I chose it because I didn't want MS to get money from a license fee. Installed Mac OS X on it the day it arrived

Ya know, I tried to do the same thing with my inspiron 1525 notebook, with snow leopard 10.6.3 since I have a spare hard drive. Spent a whole day with numerous guides, trying this n that. Got it to actually boot to the desktop once, bit as I was putting the drivers in, it went into KP and from that point on, I could never even reinstall back to the desktop again.

Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source: (Twitter, About 12pm 1/2/2011 from Samsungtweets via Cotweet - http://twitter.com/Samsungtweets/samsung-usa )
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
EDIT: gave more specific time and source of tweets. Post is meant to be objective, without definition of ASAP for this context.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.

soba49 said:
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source (Twitter, 6 hours ago):
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny or not haha. Are those recent tweets?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

They seem to post the same things over and over, of course this is also because people constantly ask when is froyo coming, and every time they say there is no definite date. It is coming soon that that is all they will say; yelling, moaning and crying isn't gonna make it come any sooner, just sit back and it will eventually come.

Just read this before you ask questions.

Hi all xda members, i just like to help you to solve your problems as fast as possible. Being answered correctly and being solved fastly and accurately.
I am putting this because i had found large number of posts in which people got in trouble, just because they havent asked their doubts correctly. Also not all phones have same specifications so that a common answer may not be applicable for every one to solve problems.
So its all about the way of asking a question in the forum. Please read and follow these whether you are posting a new thread or just in middle of a discussion.
Always read stickies before you post. They are put on top because they can solve most of your doubts, and they can help you to understand what you should/ shouldn't do.
Before asking a question please mention your wildfire specifications including.
Rom
Kernal
Radio
Hboot
S-on / s- off
Tweaks / coustomizations you installed.
Memory card partitions info.
Then you must explain what happened,when you try what.
Eg. My phone got boot loop error when i installed "xxxx script"
If you are trying to learn some thing never ask in parts, ask fully.
Eg. I want to flash a new custom rom, so from where i should start. And never ask like this ; "i cant instal xxxx rom in my phone. Pls help".
Just make intentions clearely.
Dont blame those who helped you for the reason that they asked you to do a thing and you have done some thing else, which may caused you some problems.
Always remember that a straight and clear question will always give you a staight and clear answer.
If you follow these ways of asking questions , i assure that you may not get into trouble.so folow these simple rules. Be happy.
Regards
Shah.

Good point.
Rom: htc_wwe 2.22.405.1
Kernel: 2.6.32.21-g0f9e9b5 [email protected] #1 Tue Nov 30 13:53:39 CST 2010(!) sooo last year
Radio: well yeah it has a radio I'm pretty sure
Hboot: 0.80.0002
S-on / s- off: ON
Tweaks: replaced sense launcher with launcher2+protips from AVD, rooted, installed live wallpaper support, 'bout it.
So, how come the development board is just for posting ROMs and not for instance custom apps or other app-not-rom related hacking? htc_wwe is different from aosp, you know.

Mmmmm because there is a section called wildfire themes and apps.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App

Yes, but looking at it as a development board the snr is abysmal.

Most wildfire developers have moved on to bigger and better phones, what we have left is a small group of equally talented and dedicated developers who are still trying to squeeze life from our "old" phones, there's the app section here which isn't very active because most of the people that can develop for wildfire are busy working on roms.
There is another section on xda called android apps and games I think, that's where I find new apps that are currently being developed.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Well, on average I use a phone for 3 years before moving to a newer model. But as an app developer it's sad to see that for Android you really need to have several different devices in order to truly make your app work for everyone. The Java mantra "write once - run everywhere" does NOT apply (nor does it really work that way on any java platform for that matter). How many times do you read comments such as "does not work on my droid incredible! Bloody murder and death!" in the market? The safest way to make any app is to use HTML, CSS, JavaScript, some other language which begins with a P and a good database to go with it such as PostgreSQL. This has the huge advantage of a more direct "delivery model" as well, rather then going through a market and hoping that someone will find you (and install the updates later on).
Or maybe I suck as a developer and should rather be doing something else. Though many (perhaps even most) apps on the market have likely been written by even bigger idiots then me.

I agree its a daft model, half the apps the market wont let me download because of screen Res etc etc work absolutely fine and a quarter of the other half could probably be fixed by simply decompiling and making slight adjustments to the code, now I'm not a developer, never will be but I can read instructions well and am pretty sure I could make slight adjustments myself but the point is I shouldn't have to..........
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

You would have to reverse-engineer the apk back to readable Java, make sense of it all, hack it and hopefully it'll work when you get it to run again. Most of the time, it's probably not going to be worthwhile. For small UI changes you'd only have to decompile the resources and fix the layouts most of the time. This is how crude theme hacks are done (by changing the style xml).
But if it's for a phone, it's still just that. The apparatus was designed as a communication device to tell Scotty 2 to beam up and it does that brilliantly (although there aren't any spaceships flying around the galaxy quite yet that we know of). I counted 211 apps on mine (in the "drawer") so even if I theoretically had 8 hours of time to spend with my phone every day I'd still only have 2 minutes and 16 seconds to play with each one including startup and teardown time until the next day. But as a matter of fact I, for one, do use activities not related to communications more often then those which do. Android tablets (even pre-honeycomb ones) make perfect sense.
tl;dr: don't